| SloRice | 01-20-2006 05:42 PM |
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/SloRice/swaybar.jpg[/IMG]
Just bringing my thoughts to the table, which could be way off because my Statics and Mechanics classes are a little rusty in my head. So bear with me.
This picture is how I understand the Whiteline bar. You have two holes side by side, one being closer to the cross beam of the bar, which is what your torque is centered around, not the curved portion of the bar between the endlink connection and the cross beam. Due to how torque works, the curved portion is irrelevent. Just the two distances (4.5" and 5.25")
Based on this concept, you will have a different amount of force (F) reacting at each hole based on the amount of torque (T) being applied through the bar. Therefore when the distance is shorter, the force is greater.
ex.
T=100ft-lb
T=Fa x 4.5"
Fa =100ft-lb / 4.5"
Fa = 266.67 lbs of force at hole A
T=100ft-lb
T=Fb x 5.25"
Fb =100ft-lb / 5.25"
Fa = 228.57 lbs of force at hole B
Wow, my head hurts now and I think I confused myself.
PS - I have the Strano bar and love it!! :p
Just bringing my thoughts to the table, which could be way off because my Statics and Mechanics classes are a little rusty in my head. So bear with me.
This picture is how I understand the Whiteline bar. You have two holes side by side, one being closer to the cross beam of the bar, which is what your torque is centered around, not the curved portion of the bar between the endlink connection and the cross beam. Due to how torque works, the curved portion is irrelevent. Just the two distances (4.5" and 5.25")
Based on this concept, you will have a different amount of force (F) reacting at each hole based on the amount of torque (T) being applied through the bar. Therefore when the distance is shorter, the force is greater.
ex.
T=100ft-lb
T=Fa x 4.5"
Fa =100ft-lb / 4.5"
Fa = 266.67 lbs of force at hole A
T=100ft-lb
T=Fb x 5.25"
Fb =100ft-lb / 5.25"
Fa = 228.57 lbs of force at hole B
Wow, my head hurts now and I think I confused myself.
PS - I have the Strano bar and love it!! :p
| crystalhelix | 01-20-2006 06:24 PM |
Geeeze...someone just measure the damn things and I will run an analysis that will put all these l33t pictures to rest because they confuse me..
J
J
| -OneWay- | 01-21-2006 08:18 PM |
[QUOTE=sstrano].......
If you don't want to use our bar, that's fine.... but your decision should be made with accurate information, and the idea that the Whiteline bar actually shortens the lever arm is not at all accurate. Further, the fitment issue seems to only be happening on very few cars as the number of folks who have the bar and DON'T rub can attest (and have).
Variety makes the world go 'round folks. :)[/QUOTE]
Thank you for taking your time to come here and post about this problem.
Would it be possible to get pictures of the installation method used by some of these people who are not having issues and maybe start including those with the FSB kit?
The picture that comes in the instructions shows the bracket that holds the endlinks installed BACKWARDS like this. (I think this is actually the picture that Addco uses).
[img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/Bar2.jpg[/img]
as you can see the shoulders on the bushing are pressing against the inside of the bracket instead of fitting inside of it.
(That would be a VERY poor bushing design to say the least if this installation is correct)
That installation also only uses 2 washers on each endlink for a total of 4 and the kit comes with 8. Only using 1 washer on the top and bottom of each endlink leaves the bushings compressing against other bushings and that also doesn't seem right to me.
If it does fit like that they are now drilling the holes in the bracket backwards. since the shoulders on the bushings do not fit up inside the hole on the short side of the bracket and the bolt that holds the bracket itself is a lot smaller than the bolt hole on the long side of the bracket allowing a lot of space in between the bolt hole in the bracket and the bolt holding it.
It also causes the bolt that goes thru the endlink that holds the bushings to set at an angle like this / when viewed from the front and with the bracket sitting like that the bracket hits the FSB on the corner
Here is a picture of the bracket assembled and shown as it is pictured in the instructions that will better show some of the problems I described.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG]
Since flipping the bracket makes everything fit like what you would expect on a properly engineered part I installed mine like that.
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the lift and the suspension hanging
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
With the bracket installed like this the bushing shoulders fit up inside the bracket from the top and bottom to form a bushing inside the bracket for the bolt that runs thru the bracket and holds the bushings together.
here is a picture showing what I mean by the shoulders fitting inside the bracket.
[img]http://mercury.hsc.wvu.edu/users/eric/stranobar/correct2.JPG[/img]
With the Sway bar installed as I am showing I have mine it is noisey and that bolt hits like this.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
So, how do you correctly install this bar in order to not have issues?
Is it possible some of us are recieving defective kits?
If my bar was suppossed to have installed as show in the first picture/Instructions my kit WAS defective since it will NOT install like that on my 05 STi without having the Sway bar hit the bracket also the holes in the bracket would then be backwards allowing way to much "slop" in between the bolt hole on the bracket and the bolt holding the bracket on. It would also not allow the shoulders on the bushings to fit up inside the bracket and do what shoulders are designed to do.
P.S. the only person I have seen say they are not having an issue on an 05 is the guy who did the original install and if that is his car pictured in the first picture I posted in this post/instructions it is installed wrong.......or atleast it wouldn't work installed like that with the kit I received from StranoParts the bracket would hit the sway bar.
If you don't want to use our bar, that's fine.... but your decision should be made with accurate information, and the idea that the Whiteline bar actually shortens the lever arm is not at all accurate. Further, the fitment issue seems to only be happening on very few cars as the number of folks who have the bar and DON'T rub can attest (and have).
Variety makes the world go 'round folks. :)[/QUOTE]
Thank you for taking your time to come here and post about this problem.
Would it be possible to get pictures of the installation method used by some of these people who are not having issues and maybe start including those with the FSB kit?
The picture that comes in the instructions shows the bracket that holds the endlinks installed BACKWARDS like this. (I think this is actually the picture that Addco uses).
[img]http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc%20pics/Bar2.jpg[/img]
as you can see the shoulders on the bushing are pressing against the inside of the bracket instead of fitting inside of it.
(That would be a VERY poor bushing design to say the least if this installation is correct)
That installation also only uses 2 washers on each endlink for a total of 4 and the kit comes with 8. Only using 1 washer on the top and bottom of each endlink leaves the bushings compressing against other bushings and that also doesn't seem right to me.
If it does fit like that they are now drilling the holes in the bracket backwards. since the shoulders on the bushings do not fit up inside the hole on the short side of the bracket and the bolt that holds the bracket itself is a lot smaller than the bolt hole on the long side of the bracket allowing a lot of space in between the bolt hole in the bracket and the bolt holding it.
It also causes the bolt that goes thru the endlink that holds the bushings to set at an angle like this / when viewed from the front and with the bracket sitting like that the bracket hits the FSB on the corner
Here is a picture of the bracket assembled and shown as it is pictured in the instructions that will better show some of the problems I described.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG]
Since flipping the bracket makes everything fit like what you would expect on a properly engineered part I installed mine like that.
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the ground.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranoontheground.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranog.jpg[/IMG]
Picture of the endlinks with the car on the lift and the suspension hanging
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
With the bracket installed like this the bushing shoulders fit up inside the bracket from the top and bottom to form a bushing inside the bracket for the bolt that runs thru the bracket and holds the bushings together.
here is a picture showing what I mean by the shoulders fitting inside the bracket.
[img]http://mercury.hsc.wvu.edu/users/eric/stranobar/correct2.JPG[/img]
With the Sway bar installed as I am showing I have mine it is noisey and that bolt hits like this.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
So, how do you correctly install this bar in order to not have issues?
Is it possible some of us are recieving defective kits?
If my bar was suppossed to have installed as show in the first picture/Instructions my kit WAS defective since it will NOT install like that on my 05 STi without having the Sway bar hit the bracket also the holes in the bracket would then be backwards allowing way to much "slop" in between the bolt hole on the bracket and the bolt holding the bracket on. It would also not allow the shoulders on the bushings to fit up inside the bracket and do what shoulders are designed to do.
P.S. the only person I have seen say they are not having an issue on an 05 is the guy who did the original install and if that is his car pictured in the first picture I posted in this post/instructions it is installed wrong.......or atleast it wouldn't work installed like that with the kit I received from StranoParts the bracket would hit the sway bar.
| awesome2.5rs | 01-21-2006 09:57 PM |
Hey, I just got done with the HARD install :) but its over and I would like to mention that my friend took a grinder to that steering rack/whatever bolt, we grinded it down pretty far down, but anyway there is a bit of clearance now, but we did have to grind quite a bit.
Well, as far as feel, I dont think I can give much of an opinion, since I am comparing to the whiteline 27mm adjustable bar. I think I felt a bit more front end harshness but anyway I wont be able to tell till the next season of autox starts. Oh and the bar looks pretty cool, I painted it pink (copied off of someone, lol) it looks nice. I might post a picture of how much we grinded that bolt if my camera phone can upload correctly.
******edit - This is AndrewSS posting, I am using my friends comp and I forgot to resign in, heh, this bar is on an 05 STi.
Well, as far as feel, I dont think I can give much of an opinion, since I am comparing to the whiteline 27mm adjustable bar. I think I felt a bit more front end harshness but anyway I wont be able to tell till the next season of autox starts. Oh and the bar looks pretty cool, I painted it pink (copied off of someone, lol) it looks nice. I might post a picture of how much we grinded that bolt if my camera phone can upload correctly.
******edit - This is AndrewSS posting, I am using my friends comp and I forgot to resign in, heh, this bar is on an 05 STi.
| AndrewSS | 01-21-2006 10:32 PM |
here are the pictures of the bar and where the bolt had to be shaved down some... note the bolt kinda peaks and gets close to the bar, well since the camera phone sucks it got fuzzy and makes it look a bit closer than it actually is.... in reality there is some more space, but anyway I hope that gives you an idea of how much grinding has to go into this... hope it helps some.
[img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6995/pix1560nc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6485/pix1570te.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6995/pix1560nc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6485/pix1570te.jpg[/img]
| AtomicRacer | 01-22-2006 12:23 AM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]
Neither hole can change the leverage applied to the bar because there is no LEVER ARM to change. In this case, if the adjustment holes were stacked on top of each other, then the bottom one would slightly strengthen the bar because you'd simply have less linear length of material flexing. But this orientation does not lessen the amount of metal that's flexing.
[/QUOTE]
<-- beats head on wall... How do I explain this.
Sam I think you are getting caught up in the bends in the bar. Ignore them, in this design they have almost zero impact. The bar (the long portion that runs from one side of the car to the other) is the pivat point. The hole is where the vertical force is applied. So if the force is moved 3/4" inch closer to the bar (pivat point) then the lever is less efficient and requires more force to rotate it the same degree. That means the "bar" becomes stiffer.
How much stiffer is the bar from the soft setting to the hard setting would be I don't know but it is some significant number (i.e. most likely more than 5%, according to whiteline's own liturature a 29mm bar would be 33% stiffer). The bar in fact is listed as 27mm, I do wonder where the whole 29mm number came from.
[QUOTE=sstrano]
I hope to high heaven someone builds a jig and tries it.
[/QUOTE]
You and me both.
[QUOTE=sstrano]
Now, I'll concede with the way the bar is on the car that you might see a *SLIGHT* change in bar rate given the bar does not drop straight down from the endlink.
HOWEVER, and this is what the point is and was.... IT IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH OF A CHANGE TO MAKE THE 27mm BAR ACT AS A 29MM BAR!!!![/QUOTE]
I remain unconvinced either way as to the effectiveness of the adjustable portion of the bar and restate, where did the 29mm number come from? I could find no reference to that on whitelines website.
-Paul
Neither hole can change the leverage applied to the bar because there is no LEVER ARM to change. In this case, if the adjustment holes were stacked on top of each other, then the bottom one would slightly strengthen the bar because you'd simply have less linear length of material flexing. But this orientation does not lessen the amount of metal that's flexing.
[/QUOTE]
<-- beats head on wall... How do I explain this.
Sam I think you are getting caught up in the bends in the bar. Ignore them, in this design they have almost zero impact. The bar (the long portion that runs from one side of the car to the other) is the pivat point. The hole is where the vertical force is applied. So if the force is moved 3/4" inch closer to the bar (pivat point) then the lever is less efficient and requires more force to rotate it the same degree. That means the "bar" becomes stiffer.
How much stiffer is the bar from the soft setting to the hard setting would be I don't know but it is some significant number (i.e. most likely more than 5%, according to whiteline's own liturature a 29mm bar would be 33% stiffer). The bar in fact is listed as 27mm, I do wonder where the whole 29mm number came from.
[QUOTE=sstrano]
I hope to high heaven someone builds a jig and tries it.
[/QUOTE]
You and me both.
[QUOTE=sstrano]
Now, I'll concede with the way the bar is on the car that you might see a *SLIGHT* change in bar rate given the bar does not drop straight down from the endlink.
HOWEVER, and this is what the point is and was.... IT IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH OF A CHANGE TO MAKE THE 27mm BAR ACT AS A 29MM BAR!!!![/QUOTE]
I remain unconvinced either way as to the effectiveness of the adjustable portion of the bar and restate, where did the 29mm number come from? I could find no reference to that on whitelines website.
-Paul
| z3coupe | 01-23-2006 12:35 AM |
Please, ENOUGH of the Whiteline vs Strano bar in this post. Make another one if you would like to continue on that subject. I would like to have answers to the CURRENT problem about the Strano bar I have now, and does not fit right on some cars. Adding shims or shaving bolts is not acceptable for something sold as RETAIL. I did not order a PROTOTYPE or BETA part, I ordered off a retail website a part that I even specified for my exact car. The post by -OneWay- is excellent, and describes many things that need to be addressed by Sam. And as Sam is now able to post here, he should please send some answers on how to RELIABLY fix this situation, not some backyard hacking. I am not asking for a refund, and I am not trying to bash or get rid of this bar. I am actively seeking a way to make it right for any car, not just mine! When that is done, it benefits ALL of us who have it now, and those to purchase it later on. Is that a crime? NOT!!
| AndrewSS | 01-23-2006 02:04 AM |
^ well, really all me and my friend had to do was shave down that bolt a bit, you can still get that bolt out, its not ruined... yeah its not fun doing that but really its not that big of a deal....... but yes I agree, its too bad it doesnt fit without rubbing out of the box
| VpointVick | 01-23-2006 06:54 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Please, ENOUGH of the Whiteline vs Strano bar in this post. Make another one if you would like to continue on that subject. I would like to have answers to the CURRENT problem about the Strano bar I have now, and does not fit right on some cars. Adding shims or shaving bolts is not acceptable for something sold as RETAIL. I did not order a PROTOTYPE or BETA part, I ordered off a retail website a part that I even specified for my exact car. The post by -OneWay- is excellent, and describes many things that need to be addressed by Sam. And as Sam is now able to post here, he should please send some answers on how to RELIABLY fix this situation, not some backyard hacking. I am not asking for a refund, and I am not trying to bash or get rid of this bar. I am actively seeking a way to make it right for any car, not just mine! When that is done, it benefits ALL of us who have it now, and those to purchase it later on. Is that a crime? NOT!![/QUOTE]
It may not be a prototype or a beta, but it is still an aftermarket motorsports part.
AUTOwrXER, silver arrow, and Scott Farmer have all posted on here that their 05's do not have any interference with this bolt. Since the problem is in an area of the bar that is straight, I don't see much chance of production variation on behalf of the [I]bar[/I] being the problem. It's more likely a production variation of [I]your cars[/I] being the problem.
There have been a couple of suggestions on how to fix this. Grind the bolt head, or replace with a socket head cap screw if you don't autox, or if you're in STU, or shim the bushing mounts if you're in A stock. Grinding the bolt head is the only option here that is even remotely ghetto, the other two are, imo, completely reasonable solutions to a problem that neither Sam, nor Addco, could have forseen if it only occurs on [I]some[/I] cars.
Have you contacted Sam by phone, or email yet? The common consensus in this thread seems to be that, if you're not happy with a vendors part, you should contact the vendor, and discuss it privately, before dragging it out on a public forum.
I would understand your position better if we were discussing, say, the STi 22mm bar that has been on the market for some time, was designed by the manufacturer, and is not much lager than what came out of there. Instead, we're talkin about a low production, specialty, motorsports part, that has been on the market for not much more than a year, and is [I]half again as large as[/I] the original part.
I don't think indignation is appropriate here.
It may not be a prototype or a beta, but it is still an aftermarket motorsports part.
AUTOwrXER, silver arrow, and Scott Farmer have all posted on here that their 05's do not have any interference with this bolt. Since the problem is in an area of the bar that is straight, I don't see much chance of production variation on behalf of the [I]bar[/I] being the problem. It's more likely a production variation of [I]your cars[/I] being the problem.
There have been a couple of suggestions on how to fix this. Grind the bolt head, or replace with a socket head cap screw if you don't autox, or if you're in STU, or shim the bushing mounts if you're in A stock. Grinding the bolt head is the only option here that is even remotely ghetto, the other two are, imo, completely reasonable solutions to a problem that neither Sam, nor Addco, could have forseen if it only occurs on [I]some[/I] cars.
Have you contacted Sam by phone, or email yet? The common consensus in this thread seems to be that, if you're not happy with a vendors part, you should contact the vendor, and discuss it privately, before dragging it out on a public forum.
I would understand your position better if we were discussing, say, the STi 22mm bar that has been on the market for some time, was designed by the manufacturer, and is not much lager than what came out of there. Instead, we're talkin about a low production, specialty, motorsports part, that has been on the market for not much more than a year, and is [I]half again as large as[/I] the original part.
I don't think indignation is appropriate here.
| Big C | 01-23-2006 07:16 AM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]Hmmm, just like your tittle, "Scooby Newbie", you really must be one then. I was working in parts & service for Toyota longer than you have been old enough to drive cars. And I was in import car parts for quite some time before that (European Parts Ind, part of Arenco - the FIRST import car parts company in the US, way before BAP-GEON). So you want to talk about screwing around with cars? I used to have to MAKE my own parts for my Truimphs and Lotus's because you simply could not GET them into this country back then, or had to wait half a year before it got shipped here. I had my own Renault R16 parts book so I could get engine parts for my 69 Europa from the Renault dealer - which was 10X faster than getting them from Lotus. And if you ever saw a Renault parts book, it was as hard as reading hieroglyphics!
Now, in THOSE days, it was EXPECTED for parts not to fit right, as it was the dark ages. And concerning Brit sports cars, it was even back to the caveman days. You'd have to go to junk yards to find something that you could modify from another car, to fit on yours. There was no CAD programs, no computer technology to design something. YOU made it. But today, we are in the so called modern technology era. Yes, there can be some minor errors, but that is out of the norm. So am I THAT wrong to expect better than what was back in the pre-CAD days? Expecting better than what Colin Chapman used to design in a backyard garage? Do YOU have the right to trash me for worrying not only about my self, but others as well if this could have become a safety issue? I was wrenching on cars before you were a speck in your daddy's eye kid. I think you owe ME an apology, or I'll deflate the tires on your Big Wheel :devil:
Oh, and what about TRD, Mugen, Nismo, Mazdaspeed, Dinan? Maybe still not 100% perfect (but then neither is 100% of OEM parts either! Just look at Chrysler or Ford as examples), but they now are considered FACTORY parts, and covered under the FACTORY warranty!
Lastly, my wheels are not Blingtastic, nor are they chromed. I came from the days when if it did not go fast, chrome it. I prefer fast.[/QUOTE]
Still sounds like alot of whining for such an accomplished motorsports technician. In about 1/100th of the amount of time it took you to type all the whining in this thread you could have solved the problem (I think your full of BS about making parts if you can't figure this one out).
I may not have been born in 1940 (thats about how long you have been tuning imports for, right?) but also don't spend all of my time bitching on the internet about parts that don't fit. Probably also why my member number ownZ your member # and I'm still a "scooby newbie".....Get out in the garage and fix your own crap and your post count may suffer as well.
One final suggestion "pops".......If you really think you have a legitimate safety problem you should probably have gone straight to the manufacturer. Addressing it in a public forum is not usually the most proactive way to resolving terribly dangerous and downright unacceptable situation like this... :rolleyes:
C -> Done with poser, back to getting bigwheel ready to pedal in the NASA ESRC
Now, in THOSE days, it was EXPECTED for parts not to fit right, as it was the dark ages. And concerning Brit sports cars, it was even back to the caveman days. You'd have to go to junk yards to find something that you could modify from another car, to fit on yours. There was no CAD programs, no computer technology to design something. YOU made it. But today, we are in the so called modern technology era. Yes, there can be some minor errors, but that is out of the norm. So am I THAT wrong to expect better than what was back in the pre-CAD days? Expecting better than what Colin Chapman used to design in a backyard garage? Do YOU have the right to trash me for worrying not only about my self, but others as well if this could have become a safety issue? I was wrenching on cars before you were a speck in your daddy's eye kid. I think you owe ME an apology, or I'll deflate the tires on your Big Wheel :devil:
Oh, and what about TRD, Mugen, Nismo, Mazdaspeed, Dinan? Maybe still not 100% perfect (but then neither is 100% of OEM parts either! Just look at Chrysler or Ford as examples), but they now are considered FACTORY parts, and covered under the FACTORY warranty!
Lastly, my wheels are not Blingtastic, nor are they chromed. I came from the days when if it did not go fast, chrome it. I prefer fast.[/QUOTE]
Still sounds like alot of whining for such an accomplished motorsports technician. In about 1/100th of the amount of time it took you to type all the whining in this thread you could have solved the problem (I think your full of BS about making parts if you can't figure this one out).
I may not have been born in 1940 (thats about how long you have been tuning imports for, right?) but also don't spend all of my time bitching on the internet about parts that don't fit. Probably also why my member number ownZ your member # and I'm still a "scooby newbie".....Get out in the garage and fix your own crap and your post count may suffer as well.
One final suggestion "pops".......If you really think you have a legitimate safety problem you should probably have gone straight to the manufacturer. Addressing it in a public forum is not usually the most proactive way to resolving terribly dangerous and downright unacceptable situation like this... :rolleyes:
C -> Done with poser, back to getting bigwheel ready to pedal in the NASA ESRC
| dowroa | 01-23-2006 07:36 AM |
[QUOTE=Big C]
One final suggestion "pops".......If you really think you have a legitimate safety problem you should probably have gone straight to the manufacturer. Addressing it in a public forum is not usually the most proactive way to resolving terribly dangerous and downright unacceptable situation like this... :rolleyes:
C -> Done with poser, back to getting bigwheel ready to pedal in the NASA ESRC[/QUOTE]
Bingo. The Mfg already has told you that he has trouble posting on these forums. Furthermore, for ANY AFTERMARKET par you produce, you should ALWAYS CALL the Mfg if you have problems with the part.
Point in case -- Whiteline made a bar that fit the 04s, and had TERRIBLE clearance issues on the 05s. All I did was CALL the Mfg, and he shipped me a new bar + upgrade (I paid the upgrade difference) in no time flat.
Internet is great to throw around ideas -- not get business done.
- dow
One final suggestion "pops".......If you really think you have a legitimate safety problem you should probably have gone straight to the manufacturer. Addressing it in a public forum is not usually the most proactive way to resolving terribly dangerous and downright unacceptable situation like this... :rolleyes:
C -> Done with poser, back to getting bigwheel ready to pedal in the NASA ESRC[/QUOTE]
Bingo. The Mfg already has told you that he has trouble posting on these forums. Furthermore, for ANY AFTERMARKET par you produce, you should ALWAYS CALL the Mfg if you have problems with the part.
Point in case -- Whiteline made a bar that fit the 04s, and had TERRIBLE clearance issues on the 05s. All I did was CALL the Mfg, and he shipped me a new bar + upgrade (I paid the upgrade difference) in no time flat.
Internet is great to throw around ideas -- not get business done.
- dow
| wrxkix | 01-23-2006 09:02 AM |
Here are some tips on my install of the Strano Bar on an 06 WRX:
1. I had to grind down one corner of the swaybar mounting bracket to clear the chassis on the passenger side.
2. I enlongated the the mount hole toward the rear (on both mounting brackets) to allow the the mount to fit correctly, which in turn gave some adjustability.
3. Hang swaybar from mounting brackets.
4. Turn bolt on powersteering so flat side faced the bar. Place/wedge flat head screwdriver between powersteering bolt and bar. (This will keep the bar from tightening against the bolt)
5. Tightened mounting brackets and remove above mentioned screwdriver.
6. Attached endlinks and endlink bracket.
I will say there are only millimeters to spare throughout the chassis for the bar. Given this, it is my opinion the design of the bar was well thought out and yes it does require tweaking to get it perfect. Mine did not fit perfectly out of the box, nor did I expect it to, but it was easy to adjust and I am very satisfied with the build quality of the bar.
Steve
1. I had to grind down one corner of the swaybar mounting bracket to clear the chassis on the passenger side.
2. I enlongated the the mount hole toward the rear (on both mounting brackets) to allow the the mount to fit correctly, which in turn gave some adjustability.
3. Hang swaybar from mounting brackets.
4. Turn bolt on powersteering so flat side faced the bar. Place/wedge flat head screwdriver between powersteering bolt and bar. (This will keep the bar from tightening against the bolt)
5. Tightened mounting brackets and remove above mentioned screwdriver.
6. Attached endlinks and endlink bracket.
I will say there are only millimeters to spare throughout the chassis for the bar. Given this, it is my opinion the design of the bar was well thought out and yes it does require tweaking to get it perfect. Mine did not fit perfectly out of the box, nor did I expect it to, but it was easy to adjust and I am very satisfied with the build quality of the bar.
Steve
| AndrewSS | 01-23-2006 02:17 PM |
quick question, could grinding down the that steering bracket bolt thing, like I did for the bar to fit present a problem with scca soloII classing, I know that the rules can be quite picky, just wondering since I did grind mine down a bit.
| CamaroFS34 | 01-23-2006 02:26 PM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS]quick question, could grinding down the that steering bracket bolt thing, like I did for the bar to fit present a problem with scca soloII classing, I know that the rules can be quite picky, just wondering since I did grind mine down a bit.[/QUOTE]
It's sad that the question should even come up, but we all know people who are so caught up in the "no one else is a better driver than me" mindset they they would protest over something such as a few milligrams of bolt-head being removed.
Considering the bar seems to fit most cars just fine, I'd say you'd be okay. I worked on the protest committee this past year, and I can't see us upholding a protest against something like this, especially if it was pointed out that on most cars it fit without modifications (if [i]all[/i] cars required grinding or whatever, that would be different, because the [i]part[/i] in question certainly aids performance).
Karen
It's sad that the question should even come up, but we all know people who are so caught up in the "no one else is a better driver than me" mindset they they would protest over something such as a few milligrams of bolt-head being removed.
Considering the bar seems to fit most cars just fine, I'd say you'd be okay. I worked on the protest committee this past year, and I can't see us upholding a protest against something like this, especially if it was pointed out that on most cars it fit without modifications (if [i]all[/i] cars required grinding or whatever, that would be different, because the [i]part[/i] in question certainly aids performance).
Karen
| rankink | 01-23-2006 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]Here are some tips on my install of the Strano Bar on an 06 WRX:
1. I had to grind down one corner of the swaybar mounting bracket to clear the chassis on the passenger side.
[/QUOTE]
I had to the same thing for my 05 as well. Glad I was not the only one who had this problem. I know of another with a 05 and a 04 that did not have to do this. Maybe our cars were both the same day or something.
1. I had to grind down one corner of the swaybar mounting bracket to clear the chassis on the passenger side.
[/QUOTE]
I had to the same thing for my 05 as well. Glad I was not the only one who had this problem. I know of another with a 05 and a 04 that did not have to do this. Maybe our cars were both the same day or something.
| -OneWay- | 01-23-2006 06:46 PM |
Our cars are built by Robots, VERY small "1/1000th of an inch differences can reek havoc on a production line of robots.
If they had a variance they would have to pull the robots down and stop production to readjust what ever was causing it.
Computers are very bad at dealing with "VARIANCE"
Robotic assembly lines are not designed to do this.
I am a Millwright by profession and install and check installation of machines like this (among others) for a living.
Tolerance on the installation and operation of a production robot is in the 1/5000th to 1/10000th range
I have installed robotic welders that had to be accurate with in 3/1000 over the entire 40 foot length of the machine. Assembly lines are that close.
My guess on why it is working for 3 people so far is that those people are mounting something different or maybe that screw on thier cars happens to come so that it has a flat facing the sway bar.
The bolt hitting is more of a hassle than a real problem so my complaint isn't about that.
What I'd like to see is an answer as to why the instructions show the bar installed the way they do and if that is correct why do you have the problems with installing the bar that I have shown in my last post.
and what are the extra 4 washers for?
These answers are not given anywhere in this thread and this niaeve "production variation " idea some people are trying to pass off doesn't explain that either.
If they had a variance they would have to pull the robots down and stop production to readjust what ever was causing it.
Computers are very bad at dealing with "VARIANCE"
Robotic assembly lines are not designed to do this.
I am a Millwright by profession and install and check installation of machines like this (among others) for a living.
Tolerance on the installation and operation of a production robot is in the 1/5000th to 1/10000th range
I have installed robotic welders that had to be accurate with in 3/1000 over the entire 40 foot length of the machine. Assembly lines are that close.
My guess on why it is working for 3 people so far is that those people are mounting something different or maybe that screw on thier cars happens to come so that it has a flat facing the sway bar.
The bolt hitting is more of a hassle than a real problem so my complaint isn't about that.
What I'd like to see is an answer as to why the instructions show the bar installed the way they do and if that is correct why do you have the problems with installing the bar that I have shown in my last post.
and what are the extra 4 washers for?
These answers are not given anywhere in this thread and this niaeve "production variation " idea some people are trying to pass off doesn't explain that either.
| wrxkix | 01-23-2006 07:59 PM |
The instructions provided are indeed not clear. When I bought my bar from Sam, he told me the orientation of the washers and bushings and said some of the best install info is on the NASIOC site. But I concluded there is also some misinformation on here as well. Once I saw the parts, it was very clear how to install them.
He also told me, "if I have any problems, call me and I will talk you through it when you get the bar". It appears some have had problems, but those that have, it appears, did not contact Sam. So I am quite sure he would help anyway he could if given the chance.
Anyway this is the best way I can explain the way I installed the bushings and washers with no leftover parts.
I installed the bolt with the head on top, it goes through the layout below and the nut is on the bottom holding it all together.
Top of bolt head
washer {curve down}
bushing
fixed mount
bushing
washer {curve up} < (I believe these are your two extra
washer {curve down} < washers you did not install)
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer {curve up}
nut
As you can see, you will use 4 washers per side. I hope this helps.
Steve
He also told me, "if I have any problems, call me and I will talk you through it when you get the bar". It appears some have had problems, but those that have, it appears, did not contact Sam. So I am quite sure he would help anyway he could if given the chance.
Anyway this is the best way I can explain the way I installed the bushings and washers with no leftover parts.
I installed the bolt with the head on top, it goes through the layout below and the nut is on the bottom holding it all together.
Top of bolt head
washer {curve down}
bushing
fixed mount
bushing
washer {curve up} < (I believe these are your two extra
washer {curve down} < washers you did not install)
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer {curve up}
nut
As you can see, you will use 4 washers per side. I hope this helps.
Steve
| VpointVick | 01-23-2006 08:15 PM |
The other 4 washers really aren't neccesary. When endlinks of this type are used on cars like my old Fox bodied Mustang, or GM A-Bodies (which is what they were originally designed for), the links are longer than they are on Subarus. They use a longer bolt with a steel sleeve spacer to hold the bushings apart. The other washers go between the spacer and the bushing to keep the end of the spacer from digging into the bushing.
They would normally be assembled:
bolt
washer
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer
spacer sleeve
washer
bushing
control arm
bushing
washer
nut.
With no spacer required on our Subarus, you don't really need the washers.
They would normally be assembled:
bolt
washer
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer
spacer sleeve
washer
bushing
control arm
bushing
washer
nut.
With no spacer required on our Subarus, you don't really need the washers.
| AndrewSS | 01-23-2006 08:26 PM |
I used 2 washers per endlink, resulting with 4 extras in the end.
| wrxkix | 01-23-2006 08:44 PM |
I think the idea is to avoid bushing to bushing contact. I noticed that there was a significant amount of play between the bolt and the bushing alone, the washers helped tightened/locate the two bushings stacked on top of each other. Just my opinion, but I feel this helped center bushings and provided additional support. No spare parts is always good in my book. No problem if you don't agree, just trying to explain how the install makes sense to me.
Steve
Steve
| zzyzx | 01-23-2006 09:24 PM |
[QUOTE=CamaroFS34](if [i]all[/i] cars required grinding or whatever, that would be different, because the [i]part[/i] in question certainly aids performance).
Karen[/QUOTE]
Highly doubtful. Why? Because the oh so serious* problem with the bar results in nothing more than a noise. It'd be like protesting poorly fitting poly bushing because they're "too squeeky". Furthermore, one could rationalize the bolt grinding by simply saying: "The bar rubbing on the bolt head ground away part of the bolt head."
- Steve
* Note use of sarcasm near asterisk.
Karen[/QUOTE]
Highly doubtful. Why? Because the oh so serious* problem with the bar results in nothing more than a noise. It'd be like protesting poorly fitting poly bushing because they're "too squeeky". Furthermore, one could rationalize the bolt grinding by simply saying: "The bar rubbing on the bolt head ground away part of the bolt head."
- Steve
* Note use of sarcasm near asterisk.
| CamaroFS34 | 01-23-2006 10:19 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Furthermore, one could rationalize the bolt grinding by simply saying: "The bar rubbing on the bolt head ground away part of the bolt head."[/QUOTE]
But that excuse doesn't work for ST* cars with "worn away" fender liners... ;)
Karen
But that excuse doesn't work for ST* cars with "worn away" fender liners... ;)
Karen
| -OneWay- | 01-23-2006 10:35 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxkix]The instructions provided are indeed not clear. When I bought my bar from Sam, he told me the orientation of the washers and bushings and said some of the best install info is on the NASIOC site. But I concluded there is also some misinformation on here as well. Once I saw the parts, it was very clear how to install them.
He also told me, "if I have any problems, call me and I will talk you through it when you get the bar". It appears some have had problems, but those that have, it appears, did not contact Sam. So I am quite sure he would help anyway he could if given the chance.
Anyway this is the best way I can explain the way I installed the bushings and washers with no leftover parts.
I installed the bolt with the head on top, it goes through the layout below and the nut is on the bottom holding it all together.
Top of bolt head
washer {curve down}
bushing
fixed mount
bushing
washer {curve up} < (I believe these are your two extra
washer {curve down} < washers you did not install)
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer {curve up}
nut
As you can see, you will use 4 washers per side. I hope this helps.
Steve[/QUOTE]
It looks like your describing how I have mine.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
In my last post I was really questioning how this bar could be installed and not have this issue of hitting that bolt on any otherwise stock 05 STi.
But as a side note
Assembling the FSB according to the instructions provided with the kit will result in not only a very poor/incorrect fit of the materials included but also problems of the sway bar hitting the bracket...
This is a picture that shows some of the problemsof the sway bar being assembled as shown in the instructions
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG]
This is not an issue I feel I should have to call Sam Strano or any of his family that he has working there to resolve ... It shouldn't be put on thier shoulders to deal with this on a daily basis.
Addco should address this issue in thier instructions.
I think when installed correctly this is a great FSB , my biggest problem is that the picture they include with the instructions clearly shows you how not to install this bar.
This will cause issues with any product no matter how well conceived
That bolt hitting is not a big problem besides the noise that it causes But I feel you should be made aware of this potential problem in the instructions or better yet before you buy it.
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.
He also told me, "if I have any problems, call me and I will talk you through it when you get the bar". It appears some have had problems, but those that have, it appears, did not contact Sam. So I am quite sure he would help anyway he could if given the chance.
Anyway this is the best way I can explain the way I installed the bushings and washers with no leftover parts.
I installed the bolt with the head on top, it goes through the layout below and the nut is on the bottom holding it all together.
Top of bolt head
washer {curve down}
bushing
fixed mount
bushing
washer {curve up} < (I believe these are your two extra
washer {curve down} < washers you did not install)
bushing
swaybar
bushing
washer {curve up}
nut
As you can see, you will use 4 washers per side. I hope this helps.
Steve[/QUOTE]
It looks like your describing how I have mine.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
In my last post I was really questioning how this bar could be installed and not have this issue of hitting that bolt on any otherwise stock 05 STi.
But as a side note
Assembling the FSB according to the instructions provided with the kit will result in not only a very poor/incorrect fit of the materials included but also problems of the sway bar hitting the bracket...
This is a picture that shows some of the problemsof the sway bar being assembled as shown in the instructions
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG]
This is not an issue I feel I should have to call Sam Strano or any of his family that he has working there to resolve ... It shouldn't be put on thier shoulders to deal with this on a daily basis.
Addco should address this issue in thier instructions.
I think when installed correctly this is a great FSB , my biggest problem is that the picture they include with the instructions clearly shows you how not to install this bar.
This will cause issues with any product no matter how well conceived
That bolt hitting is not a big problem besides the noise that it causes But I feel you should be made aware of this potential problem in the instructions or better yet before you buy it.
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.
| -OneWay- | 01-23-2006 10:58 PM |
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Highly doubtful. ..... Furthermore, one could rationalize the bolt grinding by simply saying: "The bar rubbing on the bolt head ground away part of the bolt head."
- Steve
* Note use of sarcasm near asterisk.[/QUOTE]
I'd say that bolt head is made of harder material than ths sway bar is.
that means it will wear a hole in your bar long before it wears the bolt head down.
- Steve
* Note use of sarcasm near asterisk.[/QUOTE]
I'd say that bolt head is made of harder material than ths sway bar is.
that means it will wear a hole in your bar long before it wears the bolt head down.
| AndrewSS | 01-24-2006 12:20 AM |
[quote]That bolt hitting is not a big problem besides the noise that it causes But I feel you should be made aware of this potential problem in the instructions or better yet before you buy it.
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.[/quote]
^ this kinda scares me, I sure wonder how the bolt being shaved a bit will be handled in the strano fsb situation...
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.[/quote]
^ this kinda scares me, I sure wonder how the bolt being shaved a bit will be handled in the strano fsb situation...
| wrxkix | 01-24-2006 08:40 AM |
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]It looks like your describing how I have mine.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yes, that is the configuration I used.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]In my last post I was really questioning how this bar could be installed and not have this issue of hitting that bolt on any otherwise stock 05 STi.][/QUOTE]
I provided an answer to this here:
[QUOTE=wrxkix]4. Turn bolt on powersteering so flat side faced the bar. Place/wedge flat head screwdriver between powersteering bolt and bar. (This will keep the bar from tightening against the bolt)
5. Tightened mounting brackets and remove above mentioned screwdriver.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]But as a side note
Assembling the FSB according to the instructions provided with the kit will result in not only a very poor/incorrect fit of the materials included but also problems of the sway bar hitting the bracket...
This is a picture that shows some of the problemsof the sway bar being assembled as shown in the instructions
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG].[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]This is not an issue I feel I should have to call Sam Strano or any of his family that he has working there to resolve ... It shouldn't be put on thier shoulders to deal with this on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
Sam is the sole distributor of this part, therefore any concerns about the product should be forwarded to him first in my opinion. It would the distributors place to contact the manufacturer to resolve any packaging issues.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]Addco should address this issue in thier instructions.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]I think when installed correctly this is a great FSB , my biggest problem is that the picture they include with the instructions clearly shows you how not to install this bar.
This will cause issues with any product no matter how well conceived
That bolt hitting is not a big problem besides the noise that it causes But I feel you should be made aware of this potential problem in the instructions or better yet before you buy it.
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.[/QUOTE]
Again, I agree.
Steve
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yes, that is the configuration I used.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]In my last post I was really questioning how this bar could be installed and not have this issue of hitting that bolt on any otherwise stock 05 STi.][/QUOTE]
I provided an answer to this here:
[QUOTE=wrxkix]4. Turn bolt on powersteering so flat side faced the bar. Place/wedge flat head screwdriver between powersteering bolt and bar. (This will keep the bar from tightening against the bolt)
5. Tightened mounting brackets and remove above mentioned screwdriver.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]But as a side note
Assembling the FSB according to the instructions provided with the kit will result in not only a very poor/incorrect fit of the materials included but also problems of the sway bar hitting the bracket...
This is a picture that shows some of the problemsof the sway bar being assembled as shown in the instructions
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/EDITEDStranoBar.jpg[/IMG].[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]This is not an issue I feel I should have to call Sam Strano or any of his family that he has working there to resolve ... It shouldn't be put on thier shoulders to deal with this on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
Sam is the sole distributor of this part, therefore any concerns about the product should be forwarded to him first in my opinion. It would the distributors place to contact the manufacturer to resolve any packaging issues.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]Addco should address this issue in thier instructions.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=-OneWay-]I think when installed correctly this is a great FSB , my biggest problem is that the picture they include with the instructions clearly shows you how not to install this bar.
This will cause issues with any product no matter how well conceived
That bolt hitting is not a big problem besides the noise that it causes But I feel you should be made aware of this potential problem in the instructions or better yet before you buy it.
Because the rules for the FSB in the stock catagory according to the 2006 SCCA SOLOII rule book read as follows
"1. Substitution,Addition or removal of any front sway bar is permitted.
2. Substitution,Addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve no other purpose other than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. NO MODIFICATION TO THE BODY,FRAME OR OTHER COMPONENTS TO ACCOMMODATE ANTI-ROLL BAR ADDITION OR SUBSTITION IS ALLOWED, EXCEPT FOR THE DRILLING OF HOLES FOR MOUNTING BOLTS, NON-STANDARD LATERAL MEMBERS WHICH CONNECT BETWEEN THE BRACKETS FOR THE BAR ARE PERMITTED."
someone can and probably will argue that if you have to grind a bolt to fit it in it is moding the components to accommodate the bar.[/QUOTE]
Again, I agree.
Steve
| Calamity Jesus | 01-24-2006 10:00 AM |
[Edit] nevermind.. should check exact wording of the rules before I post :o
| AUTOwrXER | 01-24-2006 02:35 PM |
I could be wrong here, but since the stock endlink is not a rigid member (hahaha) the only dimension that would matter is where it bolts to the control arm. Because the stock endlinks will rotate in their socket, a significant portion of the movement of the CA would be rotating the endlink rather than twisting the bar.
I actually think that the angle of the stock endlink will also have a significant effect. Imagine if the endlink was completely horizontal. In that scenario it could not apply any torque to the bar.
Seeing that both bars bolt to the same location on the CA and the chassis, my money is on the bigger bar with the rigid endlinks. Justins model will be the true test.
I actually think that the angle of the stock endlink will also have a significant effect. Imagine if the endlink was completely horizontal. In that scenario it could not apply any torque to the bar.
Seeing that both bars bolt to the same location on the CA and the chassis, my money is on the bigger bar with the rigid endlinks. Justins model will be the true test.
| crystalhelix | 01-24-2006 06:01 PM |
In god we trust,
All others bring data.
I guess I will have to measure the damn thing and guess on the whiteline.
J
All others bring data.
I guess I will have to measure the damn thing and guess on the whiteline.
J
| -OneWay- | 01-24-2006 08:36 PM |
I jacked my car up on both sides today to look at that bolt again , here is what I found.
With both front wheels off the ground that bolt does not hit.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranomiss.jpg[/IMG]
With the car sitting on the ground the bolt does hit.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
I also replaced that bolt with a bolt that has a smaller head in order to see if that horrid sound this Front Sway bar is making went away,
It did not.
I made a video of the crackling sound my sway bar is making by jacking my car up. it makes this sound anytime I go over any sort of bump.
[url]http://media.putfile.com/Sound-of-the-Strano-FSB-on-an-05-STi[/url]
You will need a Codec for playing MPEG4 audio files installed in your windows media player or the clip will not work when viewing it on putfile.
I used the Sharp G.726 Codec available at
[url]http://www.free-codecs.com/Sharp_G726_Audio_Codec_download.htm[/url]
With both front wheels off the ground that bolt does not hit.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranomiss.jpg[/IMG]
With the car sitting on the ground the bolt does hit.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/stranohit.jpg[/IMG]
I also replaced that bolt with a bolt that has a smaller head in order to see if that horrid sound this Front Sway bar is making went away,
It did not.
I made a video of the crackling sound my sway bar is making by jacking my car up. it makes this sound anytime I go over any sort of bump.
[url]http://media.putfile.com/Sound-of-the-Strano-FSB-on-an-05-STi[/url]
You will need a Codec for playing MPEG4 audio files installed in your windows media player or the clip will not work when viewing it on putfile.
I used the Sharp G.726 Codec available at
[url]http://www.free-codecs.com/Sharp_G726_Audio_Codec_download.htm[/url]
| z3coupe | 01-25-2006 03:28 AM |
Yep, same sound mine makes too, though much faster when going over bumps.
Odd that your bolt goes away from the bar when the wheels are in the air, and not when on the ground. But I have only seen mine when in the air (and then it is firmly against the bar and gouging it), so will have to try and get it up on some ramps to see how it is when the wheels are still on something. Thanks for posing the pics and the video! Thought it was only me :)
Odd that your bolt goes away from the bar when the wheels are in the air, and not when on the ground. But I have only seen mine when in the air (and then it is firmly against the bar and gouging it), so will have to try and get it up on some ramps to see how it is when the wheels are still on something. Thanks for posing the pics and the video! Thought it was only me :)
| bwagman | 01-25-2006 08:36 AM |
Here's my two cents on the Strano 32mm Bar....I purchased this for my 2005 Sti about 4 months ago. I have major rubbing issues from the end of the bar rubbing on either the metal bracket or the control arm (I haven't been under the car in awhile so I'm not 100% sure of the exact location) At first I thought I should grease the bushings (which was also suggested by Strano). That however, did not stop the pounding noise coming from underneath. Kinda like someone was taking a hammer and trying to smash through the floor board. I contacted Strano about this, they responded quickly, but their suggestion as I said before (adding grease to the bushings)did not solve the problem as this was metal rubbing on metal. I brought it to my local suspension guy (very respectable suspension guy in Northern NJ) and he pointed out the rub. He shaved the end of the bar with a dremel or something like that and the noise was reduced to now only going over bumps. However, it's still noticable (not as bad) but definitely noticable. I suppose I could bring the bar back and get it shaved more, but then I think I may run into reducing the rigidity of the mounting points and thus rendering the bar worthless.
I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just giving my honest experiences with the bar. IMHO, the bar needed to be further tested and adjusted so that this problem would not be happening.
Right now I'm toying with going back to the stock bar or purchasing a whiteline. The noise is still annoying regardless of the work done to modify the bar, and I don't know how much better this bar really is. I was only able to run it at one autocross in late October 2005, and I couldn't get a handle on whether I improved or not. Perhaps I'll wait until the 2006 season starts, try it a few more times and then make my decision.
Ben
former NASA X (northeast) co-chair
I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just giving my honest experiences with the bar. IMHO, the bar needed to be further tested and adjusted so that this problem would not be happening.
Right now I'm toying with going back to the stock bar or purchasing a whiteline. The noise is still annoying regardless of the work done to modify the bar, and I don't know how much better this bar really is. I was only able to run it at one autocross in late October 2005, and I couldn't get a handle on whether I improved or not. Perhaps I'll wait until the 2006 season starts, try it a few more times and then make my decision.
Ben
former NASA X (northeast) co-chair
| VpointVick | 01-25-2006 08:42 AM |
[QUOTE=bwagman]Here's my two cents on the Strano 32mm Bar....I purchased this for my 2005 Sti about 4 months ago. I have major rubbing issues from the end of the bar rubbing on either the metal bracket or the control arm (I haven't been under the car in awhile so I'm not 100% sure of the exact location) At first I thought I should grease the bushings (which was also suggested by Strano). That however, did not stop the pounding noise coming from underneath. Kinda like someone was taking a hammer and trying to smash through the floor board. I contacted Strano about this, they responded quickly, but their suggestion as I said before (adding grease to the bushings)did not solve the problem as this was metal rubbing on metal. I brought it to my local suspension guy (very respectable suspension guy in Northern NJ) and he pointed out the rub. He shaved the end of the bar with a dremel or something like that and the noise was reduced to now only going over bumps. However, it's still noticable (not as bad) but definitely noticable. I suppose I could bring the bar back and get it shaved more, but then I think I may run into reducing the rigidity of the mounting points and thus rendering the bar worthless.
I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just giving my honest experiences with the bar. IMHO, the bar needed to be further tested and adjusted so that this problem would not be happening.
Right now I'm toying with going back to the stock bar or purchasing a whiteline. The noise is still annoying regardless of the work done to modify the bar, and I don't know how much better this bar really is. I was only able to run it at one autocross in late October 2005, and I couldn't get a handle on whether I improved or not. Perhaps I'll wait until the 2006 season starts, try it a few more times and then make my decision.
Ben
former NASA X (northeast) co-chair[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12392487&postcount=123]As pointed out before [/URL]in this thread, if you installed the endlink brackets oriented in the way shown in the instructions, that could very well explain the noise you describe. The instructions show them installed opposite of the way they should be installed, and will likely contact the bar.
I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just giving my honest experiences with the bar. IMHO, the bar needed to be further tested and adjusted so that this problem would not be happening.
Right now I'm toying with going back to the stock bar or purchasing a whiteline. The noise is still annoying regardless of the work done to modify the bar, and I don't know how much better this bar really is. I was only able to run it at one autocross in late October 2005, and I couldn't get a handle on whether I improved or not. Perhaps I'll wait until the 2006 season starts, try it a few more times and then make my decision.
Ben
former NASA X (northeast) co-chair[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12392487&postcount=123]As pointed out before [/URL]in this thread, if you installed the endlink brackets oriented in the way shown in the instructions, that could very well explain the noise you describe. The instructions show them installed opposite of the way they should be installed, and will likely contact the bar.
| Scott Farmer | 01-25-2006 10:32 AM |
I installed the endlinks in all the possible ways (shown in instructions, shown here, etc), it never made an appreciable difference with the noise.
| VpointVick | 01-25-2006 10:34 AM |
Well in that case, maybe you need to grease the bushings. :lol:
| sciolist | 01-25-2006 12:31 PM |
I've been using the Strano FSB for autoX and DD for about seven months now, with no rubbing or noise of any kind.
It seemed pretty intuitively obvious to me that the brackets bolt up with their short legs oriented vertically, and of course the bushings should be lubricated. My approach to the links was to tighten them way up and then gradually back them off until there was no binding while surmounting a steep speed bump. I think that resulted in about 4 threads left exposed.
Re the rack bolt: Seems like a pretty subtle point. It's a bit hard to believe that would come up at a local event. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that if you're showing up at national events with street tires on an AS STi, getting protested for a rubbing rack bolt is not real high up on the list of things to deal with.
It seemed pretty intuitively obvious to me that the brackets bolt up with their short legs oriented vertically, and of course the bushings should be lubricated. My approach to the links was to tighten them way up and then gradually back them off until there was no binding while surmounting a steep speed bump. I think that resulted in about 4 threads left exposed.
Re the rack bolt: Seems like a pretty subtle point. It's a bit hard to believe that would come up at a local event. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that if you're showing up at national events with street tires on an AS STi, getting protested for a rubbing rack bolt is not real high up on the list of things to deal with.
| bwagman | 01-25-2006 01:18 PM |
sciolist,
could it be that you are having no rubbing because you have an 04 STi and Scott and myself both have 05? Just a thought?
Ben
could it be that you are having no rubbing because you have an 04 STi and Scott and myself both have 05? Just a thought?
Ben
| Scott Farmer | 01-25-2006 02:45 PM |
Well, as I said in another post in this thread, there's another 05 (dowroa) who is using my exact bar and he has no noise. Even within 05s, there seem to be production line variances. That, or I just have bad karma.
| sciolist | 01-25-2006 02:52 PM |
Based on the comments in this thread, that sounds likely. It is true though, that the bar was prototyped on Joel's car, which is an '05. So, at least some of the '05s fit well.
[QUOTE=bwagman]sciolist,
could it be that you are having no rubbing because you have an 04 STi and Scott and myself both have 05? Just a thought?
Ben[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=bwagman]sciolist,
could it be that you are having no rubbing because you have an 04 STi and Scott and myself both have 05? Just a thought?
Ben[/QUOTE]
| sstrano | 01-25-2006 03:50 PM |
My quandry is this: There are many, many cars out there with no trouble what-so-ever. Both 2004's and 2005's. That tells me the design of the bar is sound. There are a few cars with some troubles, and they seem to be largely installation based. Which tells me the the instructions could possibly use some brushing up.
However, we've had instances where folks are not reading the directions. I've had folks install the bar upside down (and clearly it won't fit). I've had folks install the bar without the middle 2 washers. They are there and needed to keep the bushings in line, as well as make the endlink length a bit longer, moving the bar that much further from the bracket. I've had folks not lube bushings. I've had folks not tighten bolts.....
First off, the holes drilled in the L-bracket are not the same size. Dan @ Addco tells me one is 5/8" (the one the endlinks goes through) and the other that goes to the control arm is about 12mm. As of now we are working form memory, he is gathering info to confirm the sizes. I have to point out that if you installed the bracket with the holes in the wrong position that you will get noises.
5/8" hole is for the endlink. 5/8" is the size of the nipple on the endlink bushings, and the nipple fits the hole on the bracket. If you used the 5/8" hole on the control arm, it's bigger than the bolt is. The result is slop and play in the system that will result in a clunking noise. There is a lot of load on the bar and the links, and 3mm or so of slop between the hole and bolt is way too much and you can never tighten the bolt enough to stop the noise. Conversely if mounted it that way, the nipples on the endlink bushings will not fit in the smaller hole.
As for the bolt rubbing.... This does seem to a be an issue on a few cars. We are looking at the possibility of a shim to move the bar just slightly down to clear the bolt in question. However, because this is not an issue on all, or even most cars we are not sure we will do this. Something has changed on the cars somewhere along the way. We will try to accomodate this if it's something we can fix. It could be Subaru changed suppliers for the bolts and some cars have a bigger bolt head that's causing interference. I can't know for sure, but we'll do what we can to help. Even if it's suggestions or directions on making a simple shim (a piece of aluminum fitted to the bracket/car will do it).
A little common sense goes a long way, and in this business you realize that even some very smart people don't always grasp the obvious. Just as nobody was bashing me, I'm not picking on anyone in particular. I am saying that there is no major issue with the bar, and so far the majority of "it doesn't fit" complaints have been installation errors.
We are looking at what we can do to help. But I do not have complete control over every person who buys parts... All I can do it try and help.
Which leads me to one final point: There has been a lot of complaining. Yet, I heard about this thread through a 3rd party. Not from anyone with any of these seemingly huge "problems". My phones have been very quiet about the whole thing.
However, we've had instances where folks are not reading the directions. I've had folks install the bar upside down (and clearly it won't fit). I've had folks install the bar without the middle 2 washers. They are there and needed to keep the bushings in line, as well as make the endlink length a bit longer, moving the bar that much further from the bracket. I've had folks not lube bushings. I've had folks not tighten bolts.....
First off, the holes drilled in the L-bracket are not the same size. Dan @ Addco tells me one is 5/8" (the one the endlinks goes through) and the other that goes to the control arm is about 12mm. As of now we are working form memory, he is gathering info to confirm the sizes. I have to point out that if you installed the bracket with the holes in the wrong position that you will get noises.
5/8" hole is for the endlink. 5/8" is the size of the nipple on the endlink bushings, and the nipple fits the hole on the bracket. If you used the 5/8" hole on the control arm, it's bigger than the bolt is. The result is slop and play in the system that will result in a clunking noise. There is a lot of load on the bar and the links, and 3mm or so of slop between the hole and bolt is way too much and you can never tighten the bolt enough to stop the noise. Conversely if mounted it that way, the nipples on the endlink bushings will not fit in the smaller hole.
As for the bolt rubbing.... This does seem to a be an issue on a few cars. We are looking at the possibility of a shim to move the bar just slightly down to clear the bolt in question. However, because this is not an issue on all, or even most cars we are not sure we will do this. Something has changed on the cars somewhere along the way. We will try to accomodate this if it's something we can fix. It could be Subaru changed suppliers for the bolts and some cars have a bigger bolt head that's causing interference. I can't know for sure, but we'll do what we can to help. Even if it's suggestions or directions on making a simple shim (a piece of aluminum fitted to the bracket/car will do it).
A little common sense goes a long way, and in this business you realize that even some very smart people don't always grasp the obvious. Just as nobody was bashing me, I'm not picking on anyone in particular. I am saying that there is no major issue with the bar, and so far the majority of "it doesn't fit" complaints have been installation errors.
We are looking at what we can do to help. But I do not have complete control over every person who buys parts... All I can do it try and help.
Which leads me to one final point: There has been a lot of complaining. Yet, I heard about this thread through a 3rd party. Not from anyone with any of these seemingly huge "problems". My phones have been very quiet about the whole thing.
| VpointVick | 01-25-2006 04:00 PM |
There's been a lot of people in this thread saying "call Sam" that have, apparently, been reaching deaf ears. :rolleyes:
Sam, what's it going to take to get a bar like this that fits the wagon? I'm sure there are plenty of 5-door drivers in D stock who could benefit from a bar this big too. As it stnds now, the largest we can get is the Cobb/Hotchkiss 25mm. :(
Sam, what's it going to take to get a bar like this that fits the wagon? I'm sure there are plenty of 5-door drivers in D stock who could benefit from a bar this big too. As it stnds now, the largest we can get is the Cobb/Hotchkiss 25mm. :(
| SloRice | 01-25-2006 04:19 PM |
^^^Whats the difference between the wagon and sedans?
| VpointVick | 01-25-2006 04:31 PM |
[QUOTE=SloRice]^^^Whats the difference between the wagon and sedans?[/QUOTE]
Sway bar is narrower, and endlink mounting is different enough that the Addco mounts wouldn't work.
Sway bar is narrower, and endlink mounting is different enough that the Addco mounts wouldn't work.
| sstrano | 01-25-2006 04:40 PM |
Update on measurements:
The bracket is 1.5" w/.500" hole x 2.0" w/.625" hole. 1.5" long section with the .500" hole is the side that mounts to the control arm. The 2.0" section with .625" hole is the endlink side. If the bracket if mounted the other way around, you will have noise from the bracket not being secured properly.
Also if you run the bracket the wrong way, the bar and the gusset on the bracket will interfere with each other. Simply because running the long side on the control arm moves the mounting point for the endlink up higher, pulling the bar up higher and making it contact the gusset.
I've been contacted by just one person, by e-mail and 4 days after posting in this thread. Still haven't had a phone call.
The bracket is 1.5" w/.500" hole x 2.0" w/.625" hole. 1.5" long section with the .500" hole is the side that mounts to the control arm. The 2.0" section with .625" hole is the endlink side. If the bracket if mounted the other way around, you will have noise from the bracket not being secured properly.
Also if you run the bracket the wrong way, the bar and the gusset on the bracket will interfere with each other. Simply because running the long side on the control arm moves the mounting point for the endlink up higher, pulling the bar up higher and making it contact the gusset.
I've been contacted by just one person, by e-mail and 4 days after posting in this thread. Still haven't had a phone call.
| sstrano | 01-25-2006 04:44 PM |
I'd be willing to do this for the wagons. I haven't had a lot of call to do so, but a fw have asked. The more folks that ask, the more willing I'd be to do it. Demand will drive the production. And I'd need a ginuea pig. Somone near, or willing to go to Western North Carolina for Addco to use your car for testing and to be the "Beta" tester. Without those two things, nothing will happen.
I don't have a Subaru, and I'm in Pennsylvania, not exactly close to NC. :)
If someone wants to start a poll to gauge support, and can find someone willing to volunteer their car, I'm quite willing.
Tubing size and hollow vs. solid would be TBD (be we'd want to do hollow first) and would take into account the narrower track of the wagons.
I don't have a Subaru, and I'm in Pennsylvania, not exactly close to NC. :)
If someone wants to start a poll to gauge support, and can find someone willing to volunteer their car, I'm quite willing.
Tubing size and hollow vs. solid would be TBD (be we'd want to do hollow first) and would take into account the narrower track of the wagons.
| VpointVick | 01-25-2006 04:48 PM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]I'd be willing to do this for the wagons. I haven't had a lot of call to do so, but a fw have asked. The more folks that ask, the more willing I'd be to do it. Demand will drive the production. And I'd need a ginuea pig. Somone near, or willing to go to Western North Carolina for Addco to use your car for testing and to be the "Beta" tester. Without those two things, nothing will happen.
I don't have a Subaru, and I'm in Pennsylvania, not exactly close to NC. :)
If someone wants to start a poll to gauge support, and can find someone willing to volunteer their car, I'm quite willing.
Tubing size and hollow vs. solid would be TBD (be we'd want to do hollow first) and would take into account the narrower track of the wagons.[/QUOTE]
Ooh! Ooh! Me! Me!
I'm in Charlotte, and would have no problem driving to them. :)
Off to drum up support!
I don't have a Subaru, and I'm in Pennsylvania, not exactly close to NC. :)
If someone wants to start a poll to gauge support, and can find someone willing to volunteer their car, I'm quite willing.
Tubing size and hollow vs. solid would be TBD (be we'd want to do hollow first) and would take into account the narrower track of the wagons.[/QUOTE]
Ooh! Ooh! Me! Me!
I'm in Charlotte, and would have no problem driving to them. :)
Off to drum up support!
| AndrewSS | 01-25-2006 05:02 PM |
[QUOTE=sstrano]My quandry is this: There are many, many cars out there with no trouble what-so-ever. Both 2004's and 2005's. That tells me the design of the bar is sound. There are a few cars with some troubles, and they seem to be largely installation based. Which tells me the the instructions could possibly use some brushing up.
However, we've had instances where folks are not reading the directions. I've had folks install the bar upside down (and clearly it won't fit). I've had folks install the bar without the middle 2 washers. They are there and needed to keep the bushings in line, as well as make the endlink length a bit longer, moving the bar that much further from the bracket. I've had folks not lube bushings. I've had folks not tighten bolts.....
First off, the holes drilled in the L-bracket are not the same size. Dan @ Addco tells me one is 5/8" (the one the endlinks goes through) and the other that goes to the control arm is about 12mm. As of now we are working form memory, he is gathering info to confirm the sizes. I have to point out that if you installed the bracket with the holes in the wrong position that you will get noises.
5/8" hole is for the endlink. 5/8" is the size of the nipple on the endlink bushings, and the nipple fits the hole on the bracket. If you used the 5/8" hole on the control arm, it's bigger than the bolt is. The result is slop and play in the system that will result in a clunking noise. There is a lot of load on the bar and the links, and 3mm or so of slop between the hole and bolt is way too much and you can never tighten the bolt enough to stop the noise. Conversely if mounted it that way, the nipples on the endlink bushings will not fit in the smaller hole.
[B]As for the bolt rubbing.... This does seem to a be an issue on a few cars. We are looking at the possibility of a shim to move the bar just slightly down to clear the bolt in question. However, because this is not an issue on all, or even most cars we are not sure we will do this. Something has changed on the cars somewhere along the way. We will try to accomodate this if it's something we can fix. It could be Subaru changed suppliers for the bolts and some cars have a bigger bolt head that's causing interference. I can't know for sure, but we'll do what we can to help. Even if it's suggestions or directions on making a simple shim (a piece of aluminum fitted to the bracket/car will do it).[/B]
A little common sense goes a long way, and in this business you realize that even some very smart people don't always grasp the obvious. Just as nobody was bashing me, I'm not picking on anyone in particular. I am saying that there is no major issue with the bar, and so far the majority of "it doesn't fit" complaints have been installation errors.
We are looking at what we can do to help. But I do not have complete control over every person who buys parts... All I can do it try and help.
Which leads me to one final point: There has been a lot of complaining. Yet, I heard about this thread through a 3rd party. Not from anyone with any of these seemingly huge "problems". My phones have been very quiet about the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
I would appreciate the development of a shim or some sort to space this, as my bolt had to be ground down. It would be nice to have a better solution that doesnt compromise scca soloII classing (its not an issue for me yet, but could be in the future) anyway I would really like a solution like that.
However, we've had instances where folks are not reading the directions. I've had folks install the bar upside down (and clearly it won't fit). I've had folks install the bar without the middle 2 washers. They are there and needed to keep the bushings in line, as well as make the endlink length a bit longer, moving the bar that much further from the bracket. I've had folks not lube bushings. I've had folks not tighten bolts.....
First off, the holes drilled in the L-bracket are not the same size. Dan @ Addco tells me one is 5/8" (the one the endlinks goes through) and the other that goes to the control arm is about 12mm. As of now we are working form memory, he is gathering info to confirm the sizes. I have to point out that if you installed the bracket with the holes in the wrong position that you will get noises.
5/8" hole is for the endlink. 5/8" is the size of the nipple on the endlink bushings, and the nipple fits the hole on the bracket. If you used the 5/8" hole on the control arm, it's bigger than the bolt is. The result is slop and play in the system that will result in a clunking noise. There is a lot of load on the bar and the links, and 3mm or so of slop between the hole and bolt is way too much and you can never tighten the bolt enough to stop the noise. Conversely if mounted it that way, the nipples on the endlink bushings will not fit in the smaller hole.
[B]As for the bolt rubbing.... This does seem to a be an issue on a few cars. We are looking at the possibility of a shim to move the bar just slightly down to clear the bolt in question. However, because this is not an issue on all, or even most cars we are not sure we will do this. Something has changed on the cars somewhere along the way. We will try to accomodate this if it's something we can fix. It could be Subaru changed suppliers for the bolts and some cars have a bigger bolt head that's causing interference. I can't know for sure, but we'll do what we can to help. Even if it's suggestions or directions on making a simple shim (a piece of aluminum fitted to the bracket/car will do it).[/B]
A little common sense goes a long way, and in this business you realize that even some very smart people don't always grasp the obvious. Just as nobody was bashing me, I'm not picking on anyone in particular. I am saying that there is no major issue with the bar, and so far the majority of "it doesn't fit" complaints have been installation errors.
We are looking at what we can do to help. But I do not have complete control over every person who buys parts... All I can do it try and help.
Which leads me to one final point: There has been a lot of complaining. Yet, I heard about this thread through a 3rd party. Not from anyone with any of these seemingly huge "problems". My phones have been very quiet about the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
I would appreciate the development of a shim or some sort to space this, as my bolt had to be ground down. It would be nice to have a better solution that doesnt compromise scca soloII classing (its not an issue for me yet, but could be in the future) anyway I would really like a solution like that.
| -OneWay- | 01-25-2006 05:16 PM |
I'm going to call Sam as soon as I get my car back to the lift.
I hope this Saturday but it might be the next one.
When I do i'll have cell phone and digital camera in hand ,
The shop I'll be at has an internet connection out on the floor so I should be able to take pictures and video of what is going on and send them directly to him.
One way or another I will find out what is causing the problems and find a way to correct it.
At this point I am convinced the problems are do to a variance in the different installation methods being used by everyone.
With that said, a shim may be needed to space the bar a little further away from the frame in order to clear that bolt all the time. I am going to take a close look at that and see what happens as we place the stands under the wheels while the car is on the lift and bring the wheels up and raise pressure on the bar, If the sway bar moves I will find out where and why.
I would NOT deal with the hassle of all this if I did not feel that the Strano Bar was the best Sway bar available for our cars and in the end worth it.
I hope this Saturday but it might be the next one.
When I do i'll have cell phone and digital camera in hand ,
The shop I'll be at has an internet connection out on the floor so I should be able to take pictures and video of what is going on and send them directly to him.
One way or another I will find out what is causing the problems and find a way to correct it.
At this point I am convinced the problems are do to a variance in the different installation methods being used by everyone.
With that said, a shim may be needed to space the bar a little further away from the frame in order to clear that bolt all the time. I am going to take a close look at that and see what happens as we place the stands under the wheels while the car is on the lift and bring the wheels up and raise pressure on the bar, If the sway bar moves I will find out where and why.
I would NOT deal with the hassle of all this if I did not feel that the Strano Bar was the best Sway bar available for our cars and in the end worth it.
| SloRice | 01-25-2006 10:42 PM |
I would be interested in seeing a wide angle shot of the 2005's with this bar. I was under my car tonight and none of the steering rack bolts are anywhere near the bar. Mine's a 2004 BTW.
| crystalhelix | 01-25-2006 10:58 PM |
Wow, lots of posting, I can't even keep up anymore
Sam, you are a machine, lol.
Sam, you are a machine, lol.
| BlkWRXWag | 01-26-2006 10:27 AM |
Sam - can you post a picture of exactly how those endlinks are supposed to be assembled, just so everyone is clear. Thanks.
| VpointVick | 01-26-2006 11:09 AM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]Sam - can you post a picture of exactly how those endlinks are supposed to be assembled, just so everyone is clear. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
It sounds from his description like they should be assembled like this
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
It sounds from his description like they should be assembled like this
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/-oneway-/strano.jpg[/IMG]
| BlkWRXWag | 01-26-2006 11:17 AM |
Thanks Vick - it does sound like that is the correct way, although I don't suppose it matters whether the nut is on the top or bottom. I would just like Sam to confirm it.
| sciolist | 01-26-2006 12:09 PM |
The idea behind putting the nut on the bottom is to minimize the loss if it happens to come loose.
| sstrano | 01-26-2006 02:10 PM |
The endlink can be installed either way, nut side up or down. Makes no difference at all. FWIW, if a nut came off, you are screwed anyway because you'll lose at least one of the washers and bushings. Which is why they endlinks use nylock nuts so they don't fall off. But if you remove the nut for some reason, the nylock is not so good anymore. Buy a new nut, or use a dab of Loctite to insure it stays. :)
| jsmonet | 01-27-2006 12:21 AM |
when i called to order this bar the other day i heard there was an issue with a little rubbing, lol. i've been following this thread since it started with great interest, and it looks like the ONLY issue with this bar is that one bolt. it's ~60% thicker than stock... i was expecting a few more fitment issues than this one silly bolt.
i'm just going to clock that bolt around a little to face the flat side to the bar, then grind it to fit. no biggie. this aftermarket part fits our cars better than brand new, from the dealership, f-body hoods fit f-bods--and that's just hilarious :)
i'm just going to clock that bolt around a little to face the flat side to the bar, then grind it to fit. no biggie. this aftermarket part fits our cars better than brand new, from the dealership, f-body hoods fit f-bods--and that's just hilarious :)
| D_REX | 01-31-2006 06:42 AM |
Here is the best I could do for an "end view" picture of the whiteline adjustment. I will try to make a measured drawing tonight.
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG]
| Calamity Jesus | 01-31-2006 08:10 AM |
[QUOTE=jsmonet]this aftermarket part fits our cars better than brand new, from the dealership, f-body hoods fit f-bods--and that's just hilarious :)[/QUOTE]
Ouch! :lol:
Ouch! :lol:
| AtomicRacer | 01-31-2006 10:18 AM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]Here is the best I could do for an "end view" picture of the whiteline adjustment. I will try to make a measured drawing tonight.
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You might want to rotate that pic so it shows how the bar is actually installed. Clockwise not quite 90 degrees.
-Paul
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You might want to rotate that pic so it shows how the bar is actually installed. Clockwise not quite 90 degrees.
-Paul
| AndrewSS | 01-31-2006 04:38 PM |
[QUOTE=D_REX]Here is the best I could do for an "end view" picture of the whiteline adjustment. I will try to make a measured drawing tonight.
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
hey, that bar looks fimiliar to me :lol:
glad it got to you ok :disco:
[IMG]http://www.supasubystuff.com/whiteline/whiteline_27_29_fsb.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
hey, that bar looks fimiliar to me :lol:
glad it got to you ok :disco:
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