| LatentWagen | 01-28-2005 12:47 PM |
saw an sti today with half a wing
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i saw a guy driving a wrb sti with only the bottom half of his wing. no functionality, why do it? i dont really see the logic... anybody doing this other than the blue one i saw today in ardsley?
| wgknestrick | 01-28-2005 12:48 PM |
Actually, only the bottom part provides downforce, so he is saving weight.
| Aphex28 | 01-28-2005 12:49 PM |
maybe it was stolen.
| LatentWagen | 01-28-2005 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE=wgknestrick]Actually, only the bottom part provides downforce, so he is saving weight.[/QUOTE]
really bill? that seems counter-intuitive to me... whats the top part doing if not providing down force?
really bill? that seems counter-intuitive to me... whats the top part doing if not providing down force?
| mbiker97 | 01-28-2005 12:56 PM |
The whole wing doesn't do much anyway. The top part is for looks, and to create more drag.
| LatentWagen | 01-28-2005 12:58 PM |
mbiker id say the wing helps... ive been in the same sti at >120 when it was wingless and then the wing was put back on. believe me it serves a purpose.
| wgknestrick | 01-28-2005 01:00 PM |
Top part is to stabilize the air flow, but only the bottom is scooped upwards to provide downforce. The top section is actually angled downwards about 1-3degs. I just swapped trunks and that STI spoiler is heavy, for sure.
| OCD | 01-28-2005 01:02 PM |
Ed,
I know of the STI that you are talking about, he lives by my house. He is an older British guy. He took off the wing because he didn't like how it looked. He had an exhaust on it right.
Dan
I know of the STI that you are talking about, he lives by my house. He is an older British guy. He took off the wing because he didn't like how it looked. He had an exhaust on it right.
Dan
| mbiker97 | 01-28-2005 01:14 PM |
[QUOTE=midnite_wrex]mbiker id say the wing helps... ive been in the same sti at >120 when it was wingless and then the wing was put back on. believe me it serves a purpose.[/QUOTE]
Maybe at those speeds. You won't hit those very often though (or shouldn't on public roads).
The real purpose is to make the car look like the rally car. Don't kid yourself.
Maybe at those speeds. You won't hit those very often though (or shouldn't on public roads).
The real purpose is to make the car look like the rally car. Don't kid yourself.
| OCD | 01-28-2005 01:32 PM |
Ed,
I know of the STI that you are talking about, he lives by my house. He is an older British guy. He took off the wing because he didn't like how it looked. He had an exhaust on it right.
Dan
I know of the STI that you are talking about, he lives by my house. He is an older British guy. He took off the wing because he didn't like how it looked. He had an exhaust on it right.
Dan
| LatentWagen | 01-28-2005 01:33 PM |
dan, this is actually a guy i know down in yonkers. he got rid of the same reason as you friend, then decided it was functional enough to sport it.
mbiker i dunno man high speed stability is pretty important in a sports car. i dont want my car feeling like its gonna take off at speed, you know? its not just about making it "look like the rally car".
mbiker i dunno man high speed stability is pretty important in a sports car. i dont want my car feeling like its gonna take off at speed, you know? its not just about making it "look like the rally car".
| iguanamafia | 01-28-2005 01:54 PM |
There was a thread [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697270&highlight=Sti+spoiler]here[/URL] from a few a weeks ago about the function of the STi rear spoiler. there were some rough aerodynamic theories with the dimensions and angles of attack and all that. I believe that there was measurable down force at speeds as low as 60 mph.
Iggy
Iggy
| G3Red04WRX | 01-28-2005 09:45 PM |
Hasnt anyone considered the thought that maybe the upper portion got damaged somehow, or the paint got dinged and he just took that part off to let a body shop repair it? No reason to take the whole spoiler off the car or even leave your car with the shop to match the paint thats already on the damaged piece....
I know i wouldnt want to leave 17 open holes on my trunklid for several days to leave the whole spoiler at the shop. I would hate for it to rain or something and my trunk get all wet.
I know i wouldnt want to leave 17 open holes on my trunklid for several days to leave the whole spoiler at the shop. I would hate for it to rain or something and my trunk get all wet.
| SpaceGhost | 01-29-2005 03:41 PM |
[QUOTE=iguanamafia]There was a thread [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697270&highlight=Sti+spoiler]here[/URL] from a few a weeks ago about the function of the STi rear spoiler. there were some rough aerodynamic theories with the dimensions and angles of attack and all that. I believe that there was measurable down force at speeds as low as 60 mph.
Iggy[/QUOTE]
I disagree with any downforce with the v8 wing, open your trunk and make sure there is nothing in it, close it but don't let it latch, then go drive at 100 mph and see if it closes the trunk. It will not. this was my error the other night when I forgot to close it.
Iggy[/QUOTE]
I disagree with any downforce with the v8 wing, open your trunk and make sure there is nothing in it, close it but don't let it latch, then go drive at 100 mph and see if it closes the trunk. It will not. this was my error the other night when I forgot to close it.
| iguanamafia | 01-29-2005 03:55 PM |
ok... did you read the link?
also, it being open changes the angle..
I am no aerodynamics specialist but that stuff all matters.
where the wind is typically off the back window once it goes over your roof, I will assume that wind just above the surface of the tail end of the car will now cause lift on the out of position spoiler.
keep your trunk closed ;)
Iggy
also, it being open changes the angle..
I am no aerodynamics specialist but that stuff all matters.
where the wind is typically off the back window once it goes over your roof, I will assume that wind just above the surface of the tail end of the car will now cause lift on the out of position spoiler.
keep your trunk closed ;)
Iggy
| kheovnien | 01-29-2005 04:29 PM |
spaceghost, nice name btw, i think ur method would work, however, do u know how much force is required to close the trunk? i mean, the weight of the spoiler/trunk has a weight/force to it already, but we don't know if there is much downforce or not. not to jack the thread, but the ferrari f430 has the ability to create as much as 617 lb. of downforce WITHOUT the aid of a wing......ok, this is at 187 mph but that's still insane...
| Ghost Rider | 01-29-2005 10:11 PM |
well, they have new sensors that you can buy that will tell you the downforce your wing is generating. just saw it in a mag somewhere, anywho, we need to get one hooked up to an STi wing and check it out
| nate49509 | 01-29-2005 10:12 PM |
The STi wing isn't all about downforce. Air coming off the top of the roof will spiral as it comes over the trunk creating a vortex which causes a vacuum, in effect causing more drag on the car. Basicly the STi aero package does reduce drag.
| neuspeed | 01-30-2005 02:06 AM |
To compensate for the wing weight the STi trunk has stiffer springs and a thinner rear glass
| MeshmeZ | 02-15-2005 04:54 PM |
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost]I disagree with any downforce with the v8 wing, open your trunk and make sure there is nothing in it, close it but don't let it latch, then go drive at 100 mph and see if it closes the trunk. It will not. this was my error the other night when I forgot to close it.[/QUOTE]
if your trunk is not closed, isnt it likely that the air coming off the rear window is going through the gap between the window and trunk and actually lifting the trunk? plus like iguana said the angle is changed.
if your trunk is not closed, isnt it likely that the air coming off the rear window is going through the gap between the window and trunk and actually lifting the trunk? plus like iguana said the angle is changed.
| WRXout | 02-15-2005 04:56 PM |
have you guys looked into the carbon fiber top piece for the sti's? i was thinking bout getting it because i hate how the top part bends.
| Nupe | 02-15-2005 05:02 PM |
[QUOTE=mbiker97]The whole wing doesn't do much anyway. The top part is for looks, and to create more drag.[/QUOTE]
Really huh! I would like you to say that to all of the engineers and designers who work in conjunction with WRC Rally. Petter Solberg and Sebastian Loeb drive vehicles with huge wings on them...do you think they would attach something on their car that would limit performance? :confused:
Really huh! I would like you to say that to all of the engineers and designers who work in conjunction with WRC Rally. Petter Solberg and Sebastian Loeb drive vehicles with huge wings on them...do you think they would attach something on their car that would limit performance? :confused:
| wgknestrick | 02-15-2005 05:47 PM |
I've also noted slightly increased drag at high speeds since I swapped my STI wing for a WRX one. At speeds of 100+, the car just doesn't seem to pull like it did and the car is slightly less stable at those speeds.
| Sti.Boy | 02-15-2005 06:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]Really huh! I would like you to say that to all of the engineers and designers who work in conjunction with WRC Rally. Petter Solberg and Sebastian Loeb drive vehicles with huge wings on them...do you think they would attach something on their car that would limit performance? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Here here. The street version of the STi is a direct offshoot of the rally car. Those guys don't put added weight on to those cars unless it serves a purpose. I personally have gone 140 in mine, and I'll tell you I would not want to try that with out the spoiler.
Here here. The street version of the STi is a direct offshoot of the rally car. Those guys don't put added weight on to those cars unless it serves a purpose. I personally have gone 140 in mine, and I'll tell you I would not want to try that with out the spoiler.
| akmotorsports | 02-15-2005 06:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]Really huh! I would like you to say that to all of the engineers and designers who work in conjunction with WRC Rally. Petter Solberg and Sebastian Loeb drive vehicles with huge wings on them...do you think they would attach something on their car that would limit performance? :confused:[/QUOTE]
True, but it may also be a different design. I don't have the data from a production car to prove anybody right or wrong.
But to validate your WRC point, check out Solberg's rear wing... it has about 5-6 vertical sections BETWEEN the outer uprights. This is primarily for yaw control, so that the back end doesn't step out as quickly, effectively using it as an air-brake to limit the car's rotation. And, yes, it does provide actual, measureable downforce.
True, but it may also be a different design. I don't have the data from a production car to prove anybody right or wrong.
But to validate your WRC point, check out Solberg's rear wing... it has about 5-6 vertical sections BETWEEN the outer uprights. This is primarily for yaw control, so that the back end doesn't step out as quickly, effectively using it as an air-brake to limit the car's rotation. And, yes, it does provide actual, measureable downforce.
| Sti.Boy | 02-15-2005 07:05 PM |
[QUOTE=akmotorsports]True, but it may also be a different design. I don't have the data from a production car to prove anybody right or wrong.
But to validate your WRC point, check out Solberg's rear wing... it has about 5-6 vertical sections BETWEEN the outer uprights. This is primarily for yaw control, so that the back end doesn't step out as quickly, effectively using it as an air-brake to limit the car's rotation. And, yes, it does provide actual, measureable downforce.[/QUOTE]
You are correct about the verticals. And why doesn't the street version have them? Because it's a STREET version. Very few people are going to go drift around the corner of 4th and Main on their way to 7-11. Me being one of them :D Now if you wanted to take your street STi and go rally racing in it I think you'd do fine without the verts. You gotta realize the level that Solberg and Loeb are driving at. However, if you wanted the verts, I'm sure you could get them from STi for a price. ;)
But to validate your WRC point, check out Solberg's rear wing... it has about 5-6 vertical sections BETWEEN the outer uprights. This is primarily for yaw control, so that the back end doesn't step out as quickly, effectively using it as an air-brake to limit the car's rotation. And, yes, it does provide actual, measureable downforce.[/QUOTE]
You are correct about the verticals. And why doesn't the street version have them? Because it's a STREET version. Very few people are going to go drift around the corner of 4th and Main on their way to 7-11. Me being one of them :D Now if you wanted to take your street STi and go rally racing in it I think you'd do fine without the verts. You gotta realize the level that Solberg and Loeb are driving at. However, if you wanted the verts, I'm sure you could get them from STi for a price. ;)
| quentinberg007 | 02-15-2005 07:24 PM |
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost]I disagree with any downforce with the v8 wing, open your trunk and make sure there is nothing in it, close it but don't let it latch, then go drive at 100 mph and see if it closes the trunk. It will not. this was my error the other night when I forgot to close it.[/QUOTE]
Your trunk lid not latching is [b]not[/b] a reputable aerodynamic test.
They should include something about "No threads discussing the merits of the STi wing." in the rules. Same ****, different day. Everyone has their little 'home-made' study where the data always seems to support the decision they made about removing their wing. How about that?! One guy was saying his gas mileage had improved by .12% since taking the wing off. Now, if I recall correctly, the wing isn't the only ****ing thing that determines gas mileage. If I took my RS coupe wing off in March and compared my gas mileage in March/April to my mileage in December/January, "the data" would say that my mileage was so much better without the wing. The temperature and the fact that the car is programmed to run insanely rich in colder starting temps wouldn't have anything to do with the gas mileage, though. :rolleyes: Problem is that so many ****ing variables changed between the tests that the data is complete ****. Complete, ****ing, ****. Anyways, everyone keep on justifying why you kept your wing or took it off with your talking out of the ass.
~~Quentin
Your trunk lid not latching is [b]not[/b] a reputable aerodynamic test.
They should include something about "No threads discussing the merits of the STi wing." in the rules. Same ****, different day. Everyone has their little 'home-made' study where the data always seems to support the decision they made about removing their wing. How about that?! One guy was saying his gas mileage had improved by .12% since taking the wing off. Now, if I recall correctly, the wing isn't the only ****ing thing that determines gas mileage. If I took my RS coupe wing off in March and compared my gas mileage in March/April to my mileage in December/January, "the data" would say that my mileage was so much better without the wing. The temperature and the fact that the car is programmed to run insanely rich in colder starting temps wouldn't have anything to do with the gas mileage, though. :rolleyes: Problem is that so many ****ing variables changed between the tests that the data is complete ****. Complete, ****ing, ****. Anyways, everyone keep on justifying why you kept your wing or took it off with your talking out of the ass.
~~Quentin
| Sti.Boy | 02-15-2005 07:49 PM |
"They should include something about "No threads discussing the merits of the STi wing." in the rules. Same ****, different day."
Nobody forced you to read this thread. However you are right about the gas mileage thing. I know I burn extra gas in the winter not only because the car is running rich, but letting it warm up. Last thing I want to do when it's 8 degrees out is sit there freezing my balls off.
Nobody forced you to read this thread. However you are right about the gas mileage thing. I know I burn extra gas in the winter not only because the car is running rich, but letting it warm up. Last thing I want to do when it's 8 degrees out is sit there freezing my balls off.
| quentinberg007 | 02-15-2005 08:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Sti.Boy]"They should include something about "No threads discussing the merits of the STi wing." in the rules. Same ****, different day."
Nobody forced you to read this thread. However you are right about the gas mileage thing. I know I burn extra gas in the winter not only because the car is running rich, but letting it warm up. Last thing I want to do when it's 8 degrees out is sit there freezing my balls off.[/QUOTE]
Oh, but I am forced to read it. Every time I'm just hoping for someone to have have put some real deal CFD data in a thread. It must be the aerospace engineer in me. Someone did run some CFD results in a thread, but used an elliptical crosssection as the STi wing, which I think isn't true to the geometry of the wing. Wishful thinking, I suppose. If I actually get hired as an Aerospace engineer next spring instead of a mechanical, maybe I'll stay after work one day and play with CFD. I should have gotten a hack for the Phoenics CFD software I had on my laptop during my study abroad. The license ran out before I was back in the US.
Anyways, no matter how you warm your car, it can't be as bad as my neighbor. In near zero temps, he revs his car to redline over and over in the driveway to warm it up quicker. That poor poor engine. :( Running 5000 RPM when the engine is dead cold has to do all kinds of wear, not to mention the internals being much more brittle at the low temps.
~~Quentin
Nobody forced you to read this thread. However you are right about the gas mileage thing. I know I burn extra gas in the winter not only because the car is running rich, but letting it warm up. Last thing I want to do when it's 8 degrees out is sit there freezing my balls off.[/QUOTE]
Oh, but I am forced to read it. Every time I'm just hoping for someone to have have put some real deal CFD data in a thread. It must be the aerospace engineer in me. Someone did run some CFD results in a thread, but used an elliptical crosssection as the STi wing, which I think isn't true to the geometry of the wing. Wishful thinking, I suppose. If I actually get hired as an Aerospace engineer next spring instead of a mechanical, maybe I'll stay after work one day and play with CFD. I should have gotten a hack for the Phoenics CFD software I had on my laptop during my study abroad. The license ran out before I was back in the US.
Anyways, no matter how you warm your car, it can't be as bad as my neighbor. In near zero temps, he revs his car to redline over and over in the driveway to warm it up quicker. That poor poor engine. :( Running 5000 RPM when the engine is dead cold has to do all kinds of wear, not to mention the internals being much more brittle at the low temps.
~~Quentin
| Sti.Boy | 02-15-2005 09:07 PM |
"That poor poor engine. Running 5000 RPM when the engine is dead cold has to do all kinds of wear, not to mention the internals being much more brittle at the low temps."
No kidding. Heck, when it gets below 20 degrees I can hear the lifters clicking if I go over around 2000 rpms.
Good luck on the job, and maybe if you actually get some hard data you can share it with the rest of us... Not that I would really understand any of it anyways :confused: I happen to be a bartender not an Aerospace engineer. lol
No kidding. Heck, when it gets below 20 degrees I can hear the lifters clicking if I go over around 2000 rpms.
Good luck on the job, and maybe if you actually get some hard data you can share it with the rest of us... Not that I would really understand any of it anyways :confused: I happen to be a bartender not an Aerospace engineer. lol
| Foxy | 02-15-2005 09:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]Really huh! I would like you to say that to all of the engineers and designers who work in conjunction with WRC Rally. Petter Solberg and Sebastian Loeb drive vehicles with huge wings on them...do you think they would attach something on their car that would limit performance? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, those WRC drivers use exactly the same wing as the STi.
[img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/487962.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subaru.kz/images/access/impreza/Rear_spoiler_Sti_b.jpg[/img]
Exactly the same.
Yeah, those WRC drivers use exactly the same wing as the STi.
[img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/487962.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subaru.kz/images/access/impreza/Rear_spoiler_Sti_b.jpg[/img]
Exactly the same.
| Nupe | 02-15-2005 11:19 PM |
[QUOTE=Foxy]Yeah, those WRC drivers use exactly the same wing as the STi.
[img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/487962.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subaru.kz/images/access/impreza/Rear_spoiler_Sti_b.jpg[/img]
Exactly the same.[/QUOTE]
I think you missed the point. I think the people who oppose the street version STI's wing critized its function due to its size. Everyone knows the wings are different on both the Solberg and street version due to there overall purpose ( racing v. commuting). But i brought up the argument that if the professionals use a wing that appears to be just as large and "obnoxious" then certaintly the production versions wing should have some level of functionality/purpose or neither of the cars would use it.
[img]http://www.swrt.com/cpimages/487962.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.subaru.kz/images/access/impreza/Rear_spoiler_Sti_b.jpg[/img]
Exactly the same.[/QUOTE]
I think you missed the point. I think the people who oppose the street version STI's wing critized its function due to its size. Everyone knows the wings are different on both the Solberg and street version due to there overall purpose ( racing v. commuting). But i brought up the argument that if the professionals use a wing that appears to be just as large and "obnoxious" then certaintly the production versions wing should have some level of functionality/purpose or neither of the cars would use it.
| MeshmeZ | 02-16-2005 04:07 AM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]I think you missed the point. I think the people who oppose the street version STI's wing critized its function due to its size. Everyone knows the wings are different on both the Solberg and street version due to there overall purpose ( racing v. commuting). But i brought up the argument that if the professionals use a wing that appears to be just as large and "obnoxious" then certaintly the production versions wing should have some level of functionality/purpose or neither of the cars would use it.[/QUOTE]
i think YOU missed the point. nevermind the SIZE of the WRC spoiler look at all the curves and other things involved in it that make it FUNCTIONAL, then look at the straight street spoiler.. the SIZE of the WRC spoiler is so they can put all the aerodynamic parts in it, the size of the street spoiler is to mimic the size and OVERALL shape of the WRC spoiler... the argument going on here is if the street spoiler is functional of not... not if the size is similar.
top fuel drag cars have gigantic aluminum wings on them.. are you going to tell me that if someone puts the same size wing on a civic its going to have functionality? didnt think so..
i think YOU missed the point. nevermind the SIZE of the WRC spoiler look at all the curves and other things involved in it that make it FUNCTIONAL, then look at the straight street spoiler.. the SIZE of the WRC spoiler is so they can put all the aerodynamic parts in it, the size of the street spoiler is to mimic the size and OVERALL shape of the WRC spoiler... the argument going on here is if the street spoiler is functional of not... not if the size is similar.
top fuel drag cars have gigantic aluminum wings on them.. are you going to tell me that if someone puts the same size wing on a civic its going to have functionality? didnt think so..
| Foxy | 02-16-2005 09:43 AM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]I think you missed the point. I think the people who oppose the street version STI's wing critized its function due to its size. Everyone knows the wings are different on both the Solberg and street version due to there overall purpose ( racing v. commuting). But i brought up the argument that if the professionals use a wing that appears to be just as large and "obnoxious" then certaintly the production versions wing should have some level of functionality/purpose or neither of the cars would use it.[/QUOTE]
I agree with what Meshmez said. The professionals use a wing that was specially designed to perform a function. The STi wing can't be compared to the WRC wing.
You were telling someone that they should tell the engineers on the WRC team that the spoiler is big. I think we can all agree that what works great for the WRC car may not be applicable for our street cars. I doubt too many people want to run anti-lag systems on a street car, but rally cars need that to be competitive. I doubt too many people want to strip out the interior of their street car, but rally cars need that.
Now, I'm not saying that I would take off the wing if I owned an STi - I'd probably leave it on, because I do like how it looks. But I don't think that saying, "The WRC car has a big spoiler so the STi's wing is good too!" is valid. As anyone can see, they're two totally different designs.
I agree with what Meshmez said. The professionals use a wing that was specially designed to perform a function. The STi wing can't be compared to the WRC wing.
You were telling someone that they should tell the engineers on the WRC team that the spoiler is big. I think we can all agree that what works great for the WRC car may not be applicable for our street cars. I doubt too many people want to run anti-lag systems on a street car, but rally cars need that to be competitive. I doubt too many people want to strip out the interior of their street car, but rally cars need that.
Now, I'm not saying that I would take off the wing if I owned an STi - I'd probably leave it on, because I do like how it looks. But I don't think that saying, "The WRC car has a big spoiler so the STi's wing is good too!" is valid. As anyone can see, they're two totally different designs.
| Nupe | 02-16-2005 09:59 AM |
[QUOTE=MeshmeZ]i think YOU missed the point. nevermind the SIZE of the WRC spoiler look at all the curves and other things involved in it that make it FUNCTIONAL, then look at the straight street spoiler.. the SIZE of the WRC spoiler is so they can put all the aerodynamic parts in it, the size of the street spoiler is to mimic the size and OVERALL shape of the WRC spoiler... the argument going on here is if the street spoiler is functional of not... not if the size is similar.
top fuel drag cars have gigantic aluminum wings on them.. are you going to tell me that if someone puts the same size wing on a civic its going to have functionality? didnt think so..[/QUOTE]
Well you don't own an STI anyway, so it doesn't matter! Drive your RS :lol:
You still missed the point. It's all about the idea of the wing. You think consumers can afford a 40k wing like the WRC? Duh!
top fuel drag cars have gigantic aluminum wings on them.. are you going to tell me that if someone puts the same size wing on a civic its going to have functionality? didnt think so..[/QUOTE]
Well you don't own an STI anyway, so it doesn't matter! Drive your RS :lol:
You still missed the point. It's all about the idea of the wing. You think consumers can afford a 40k wing like the WRC? Duh!
| Rev1 | 02-16-2005 10:54 AM |
The STi wing serves a purpose. Simple as that. Does it provide less aero capabilities than the WRC wing? Yeah sure ...
| MeshmeZ | 02-16-2005 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]Well you don't own an STI anyway, so it doesn't matter! Drive your RS :lol:
You still missed the point. It's all about the idea of the wing. You think consumers can afford a 40k wing like the WRC? Duh![/QUOTE]
LOL, i like how you have run out of arguments so you use totally irrelevant things like the fact that i dont have an STi. what difference does it make? a rocket scientist can probably give you some good info about how a rocket works, but i doubt he owns one. :lol: sure im not an aero engineer, but it doesnt really take one to see that the wrc wing has much more to it than the street wing.
anyway, your comment about the "idea of the wing" supports my statement that the street wing is made to mimic the size of the wrc wing. it has nothing to do with functionality. im not arguing that the street wing is completely useless. im sure it has SOME effect. but to compare it to the WRC wing because of size alone is rediculous.
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..
You still missed the point. It's all about the idea of the wing. You think consumers can afford a 40k wing like the WRC? Duh![/QUOTE]
LOL, i like how you have run out of arguments so you use totally irrelevant things like the fact that i dont have an STi. what difference does it make? a rocket scientist can probably give you some good info about how a rocket works, but i doubt he owns one. :lol: sure im not an aero engineer, but it doesnt really take one to see that the wrc wing has much more to it than the street wing.
anyway, your comment about the "idea of the wing" supports my statement that the street wing is made to mimic the size of the wrc wing. it has nothing to do with functionality. im not arguing that the street wing is completely useless. im sure it has SOME effect. but to compare it to the WRC wing because of size alone is rediculous.
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..
| MidnightSti05 | 02-16-2005 11:42 AM |
People have to get over the fact that the wing serves a purpose, anyway about the WRC wing, Some one posted a video of Solbery on a Japanese channel I beleive and in the little segment explained that the WRC wing in the picture above helps stabalize the car and helps it when it is airbourne.
And to the person who posted above me who said "i know people with wingless STis" first of all they wont' lose control but they will feel a difference
I hate seeing these threads about the STi wing, I think the people who designed the USDM Sti put time into how the wing is desinged and it does more than just "SOME" benefits as some may describe.
And to the person who posted above me who said "i know people with wingless STis" first of all they wont' lose control but they will feel a difference
I hate seeing these threads about the STi wing, I think the people who designed the USDM Sti put time into how the wing is desinged and it does more than just "SOME" benefits as some may describe.
| Rev1 | 02-16-2005 11:46 AM |
[QUOTE=MeshmeZ] im sure it has SOME effect. but to compare it to the WRC wing because of size alone is rediculous.
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..[/QUOTE]
Yeah probably if you had one, you'll take the wing right away because the size alone is "rediculous" :rolleyes:
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..[/QUOTE]
Yeah probably if you had one, you'll take the wing right away because the size alone is "rediculous" :rolleyes:
| DirtDevil | 02-16-2005 11:47 AM |
Not to jump into the arguement, But something I had been thinking about on my STI when looking at the wing... At first the top section seemed odd to me as the back portion of the winglet is angled down instead of up which provides lift instead of downforce. I thought why would they want lift? Well then it hit me. The wing is so tall becasue the fluid dynamics at that height are not providing lift as this is a lower pressure dead zone or close to it, and the acute raised angle of the bottom section is so drastic that it creates allot of downforce obviously... well to get even more out of it they angled the top section downwards to create a compression zone in between the two winglets, thus creating even more down force. so to me it make perfect sense why the top section is angled down now. Maybe I am wrong but that makes a whole lot more sense then STI designed it to mimic the WRC wing, which a FHI Engineer will tell you that their Areospace division helps design just about everything STI releases. STI by no means does anything jsut to look good. so to me sir, That is balsfimy! Whether you own a STI or not. ;)
| ranger5oh | 02-16-2005 11:55 AM |
The purpose of the STi wing is merely to piss people off and have people wonder if it works and then to post numerous threads on all the STi forums about it. The fact that it adds something like 60lbs of downforce at 100mph is "functionality." Not really. Anyway, they made the car to look like a rally car, simple as that. If it didnt have the wing, it wouldnt look like a rally car.
| quentinberg007 | 02-16-2005 12:19 PM |
[QUOTE=ranger5oh]The purpose of the STi wing is merely to piss people off and have people wonder if it works and then to post numerous threads on all the STi forums about it. The fact that it adds something like 60lbs of downforce at 100mph is "functionality." Not really. Anyway, they made the car to look like a rally car, simple as that. If it didnt have the wing, it wouldnt look like a rally car.[/QUOTE]
Why didn't the first version of the bugeye STi have the big wing, then? [sarcasm]Did they forget, after the GC8 STi, that the wing was the only thing likening the Impreza to it's rally car counterpart, and then miraculously remember when the 04+ style was introduced?[/sarcasm]
I honestly believe the FHI actually thinks about this before they make a decision on what wing goes on what car. The Ver V STi didn't have a front lip spoiler and had an angle of attack similar to the current STi on the rear spoiler. The Ver VI STi had a new front lip spoiler and a much greater angle of attack on the rear spoiler than the Ver V. Now, why would they completely redesign the wing for a single model year if it was only for looks. IMO, A front lip spoiler was added in the Ver VI, allowing the rear spoiler to be more aggressive and keep the car balanced aerodynamically. FWIW, I think the front doors are the only panels that the STi shares with the SWRT rally car.
~~Quentin
Why didn't the first version of the bugeye STi have the big wing, then? [sarcasm]Did they forget, after the GC8 STi, that the wing was the only thing likening the Impreza to it's rally car counterpart, and then miraculously remember when the 04+ style was introduced?[/sarcasm]
I honestly believe the FHI actually thinks about this before they make a decision on what wing goes on what car. The Ver V STi didn't have a front lip spoiler and had an angle of attack similar to the current STi on the rear spoiler. The Ver VI STi had a new front lip spoiler and a much greater angle of attack on the rear spoiler than the Ver V. Now, why would they completely redesign the wing for a single model year if it was only for looks. IMO, A front lip spoiler was added in the Ver VI, allowing the rear spoiler to be more aggressive and keep the car balanced aerodynamically. FWIW, I think the front doors are the only panels that the STi shares with the SWRT rally car.
~~Quentin
| Nupe | 02-16-2005 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE=MeshmeZ]LOL, i like how you have run out of arguments so you use totally irrelevant things like the fact that i dont have an STi. what difference does it make? a rocket scientist can probably give you some good info about how a rocket works, but i doubt he owns one. :lol: sure im not an aero engineer, but it doesnt really take one to see that the wrc wing has much more to it than the street wing.
anyway, your comment about the "idea of the wing" supports my statement that the street wing is made to mimic the size of the wrc wing. it has nothing to do with functionality. im not arguing that the street wing is completely useless. im sure it has SOME effect. but to compare it to the WRC wing because of size alone is rediculous.
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..[/QUOTE]
I don't need an argument because i OWN an STI. I'm already convinced that the wing is useful, that's why i BOUGHT the car to begin with! It seems you have a bad case of jealousy. Especially as a fellow Subaru owner, you would think that one would respect the engineering ability and competence of our car's manufacturers. But i guess thats why you settled for a wack RS. Cheers!
:lol:
anyway, your comment about the "idea of the wing" supports my statement that the street wing is made to mimic the size of the wrc wing. it has nothing to do with functionality. im not arguing that the street wing is completely useless. im sure it has SOME effect. but to compare it to the WRC wing because of size alone is rediculous.
btw, i know people with wingless STi's and uhh.. they dont lose control at high speeds..[/QUOTE]
I don't need an argument because i OWN an STI. I'm already convinced that the wing is useful, that's why i BOUGHT the car to begin with! It seems you have a bad case of jealousy. Especially as a fellow Subaru owner, you would think that one would respect the engineering ability and competence of our car's manufacturers. But i guess thats why you settled for a wack RS. Cheers!
:lol:
| Foxy | 02-16-2005 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]I don't need an argument because i OWN an STI. I'm already convinced that the wing is useful, that's why i BOUGHT the car to begin with! It seems you have a bad case of jealousy. Especially as a fellow Subaru owner, you would think that one would respect the engineering ability and competence of our car's manufacturers. But i guess thats why you settled for a wack RS. Cheers!
:lol:[/QUOTE]
Wow dude, that's just wrong. Someone bought an RS just because they didn't "respect the engineers"?? You bought an STi just because the wing is useful? You're better than us just because you own an STi?
Owning an STi doesn't immediately make you an expert on the vehicle.
We never said that the wing wasn't useful or did something. In fact, someone said that the top portion of the wing smooths out the airflow over the rear of the car - I can easily buy that.
What is ridiculous is your claiming that the STi wing is as functional as the WRC wing.
:lol:[/QUOTE]
Wow dude, that's just wrong. Someone bought an RS just because they didn't "respect the engineers"?? You bought an STi just because the wing is useful? You're better than us just because you own an STi?
Owning an STi doesn't immediately make you an expert on the vehicle.
We never said that the wing wasn't useful or did something. In fact, someone said that the top portion of the wing smooths out the airflow over the rear of the car - I can easily buy that.
What is ridiculous is your claiming that the STi wing is as functional as the WRC wing.
| Nupe | 02-16-2005 03:25 PM |
[QUOTE=Foxy]Wow dude, that's just wrong. Someone bought an RS just because they didn't "respect the engineers"?? You bought an STi just because the wing is useful? You're better than us just because you own an STi?
Owning an STi doesn't immediately make you an expert on the vehicle.
We never said that the wing wasn't useful or did something. In fact, someone said that the top portion of the wing smooths out the airflow over the rear of the car - I can easily buy that.
What is ridiculous is your claiming that the STi wing is as functional as the WRC wing.[/QUOTE]
Your reading comprehension skills SUCK! I never claimed that the street STI and the WRC STI wings operated the same you tool! I merely typed that if the manufacturer thought the wing was a useless piece of plastic then why would a "SIMILAR" wing (and i quoted similar so that you wouldn't misread it and think i said "same") be on both cars. Secondly, regarding Subaru engineers and their competence...that was mainly targeted at the poster who DRIVES a SUBARU, and yet has no confidence in the knowledge of "OUR" cars function.
Why would he think one of the most exciting street legal Subarus ever produced IMO , would be cheapened by pseudo parts. It make no sense!
RS's are good cars, but it seems odd that those who don't own and STI always attempt to critic it, most likely out of envy!
Owning an STi doesn't immediately make you an expert on the vehicle.
We never said that the wing wasn't useful or did something. In fact, someone said that the top portion of the wing smooths out the airflow over the rear of the car - I can easily buy that.
What is ridiculous is your claiming that the STi wing is as functional as the WRC wing.[/QUOTE]
Your reading comprehension skills SUCK! I never claimed that the street STI and the WRC STI wings operated the same you tool! I merely typed that if the manufacturer thought the wing was a useless piece of plastic then why would a "SIMILAR" wing (and i quoted similar so that you wouldn't misread it and think i said "same") be on both cars. Secondly, regarding Subaru engineers and their competence...that was mainly targeted at the poster who DRIVES a SUBARU, and yet has no confidence in the knowledge of "OUR" cars function.
Why would he think one of the most exciting street legal Subarus ever produced IMO , would be cheapened by pseudo parts. It make no sense!
RS's are good cars, but it seems odd that those who don't own and STI always attempt to critic it, most likely out of envy!
| Rev1 | 02-16-2005 05:26 PM |
The 911 Turbo has a huge ass spoiler. I'm sure it serves no purpose too, Porsche engineers just put it in for the bling, so that they get differentiated from the "inferior" 911 Carrera owners ... :rolleyes:
| Nupe | 02-16-2005 05:40 PM |
[QUOTE=STi_Thunder]The 911 Turbo has a huge ass spoiler. I'm sure it serves no purpose too, Porsche engineers just put it in for the bling, so that they get differentiated from the "inferior" 911 Carrera owners ... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Amen!
Amen!
| MeshmeZ | 02-16-2005 08:20 PM |
[QUOTE=STi_Thunder]Yeah probably if you had one, you'll take the wing right away because the size alone is "rediculous" :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
i personally like the look of it and i would keep it on. the discussion here is if its functional or not.
NUPE, im sorry if im not rich enough to buy an STi, and if you really bought the STi because you were convinced the wing works.. umm... hmm... :rolleyes:
also, im not critisizing the STi. i think it is a awesome car and if i had the money i would buy it. i was simply trying to come up with a logical answer to the original post as to whether or not the wing does anything, or what the benefit would be to removing the top part. in my opinion "it has to be functional because it is the same size as the one on the WRC car" is not a logical explanation.
size is a product of functionality, but that does not mean functionality is a product of size.
anyway im done with this thread. i tried to put in my points and make logical explanations and arguments. instead of a conversation i got accused of being jealous, and having no clue because i dont own an STi. i guess you are the expert seeing as you DID buy the STi.
i personally like the look of it and i would keep it on. the discussion here is if its functional or not.
NUPE, im sorry if im not rich enough to buy an STi, and if you really bought the STi because you were convinced the wing works.. umm... hmm... :rolleyes:
also, im not critisizing the STi. i think it is a awesome car and if i had the money i would buy it. i was simply trying to come up with a logical answer to the original post as to whether or not the wing does anything, or what the benefit would be to removing the top part. in my opinion "it has to be functional because it is the same size as the one on the WRC car" is not a logical explanation.
size is a product of functionality, but that does not mean functionality is a product of size.
anyway im done with this thread. i tried to put in my points and make logical explanations and arguments. instead of a conversation i got accused of being jealous, and having no clue because i dont own an STi. i guess you are the expert seeing as you DID buy the STi.
| KAX | 02-16-2005 08:48 PM |
i just read this entire thread, i dont remeber anyone saying "it has to be functional because it is the same size as the one on the WRC car." Also, to those who use the newer WRC wing to prove that the street version STi wing has no similarities, when did that wing come out? Wasnt it 04? Did they not use a wing before that? Cuz i remember something very similar to the USDM STi wing on the WRC car of 03, sure its a different body, but a wing is a wing. We have plenty of people who said in this thread they feel a difference with and without the wing. So there is a difference, i havent done it so i cant say whether its a good difference or bad, so.... o the main point, if he took it off for fuctionality purposes, he probably felt there was no point to the top, so took it off to save weight. But some one meantioned already that the top seems to double the downforce the wing creates by compressing the air or something. (Im just a mechanical engineer). But the point is, its his car, if he doesnt like the top hell take it off. Like some say, "Its your car, personalize it." thats what he did
| Pheasant Plucker | 02-16-2005 09:17 PM |
[QUOTE=quentinberg007]Someone did run some CFD results in a thread, but used an elliptical crosssection as the STi wing, which I think isn't true to the geometry of the wing.[/QUOTE]This begs the question of how accurately do you need to model the wing in order to make some predictions about its aerodynamic performance? The shape of the car supporting the wing, the airflow over the roof and around the sides, the relatively narrow wing (compared to an aircraft) dimensions, the turbulence caused by the strangely angled side supports and the effect of the trunk lid mounted lower "wing" make this a calculation which it is very difficult to simplify without it becoming meaningless. Perhaps the only data which would shed some light on this argument would be from wind tunnel tests?
| ranger5oh | 02-16-2005 09:51 PM |
Ok... has anyone in here swapped out the wing on their STi or gone wingless? How did it change your ride? I bet it didnt do sheeeeiiiiiittttt.
Anyway, I love my gigantic wing anyway, it is fun to hang clothes on, and it doubles as an ironing board. Me and my girlfriends have picnics on it in the summer, and I can strap my mountain bike to it. Really see... it serves many functions. So to say it isnt functional is an overstatement.
Anyway, I love my gigantic wing anyway, it is fun to hang clothes on, and it doubles as an ironing board. Me and my girlfriends have picnics on it in the summer, and I can strap my mountain bike to it. Really see... it serves many functions. So to say it isnt functional is an overstatement.
| Foxy | 02-16-2005 11:34 PM |
Nupe, I had a nice long response typed up, but I'm dropping it. Your attitude disgusts me. Try posting without calling someone names, and I might be interested in talking.
| RumblingREX | 02-17-2005 07:33 AM |
[QUOTE=STi_Thunder]The 911 Turbo has a huge ass spoiler. I'm sure it serves no purpose too, Porsche engineers just put it in for the bling, so that they get differentiated from the "inferior" 911 Carrera owners ... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Can I get another AMEN! These threads make me cry. I didn't know so many engineers lurked on NASIOC. Yes the upper wing does flex, the manual says it will. Means it is in the airflow foo! The whole STi hood assembly flexes too! You all gonna replace the hood now?? Oh Noes..
I got this off a Subaru site.
[IMG]http://img27.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img27&image=wing3yk.jpg[/IMG]
Can I get another AMEN! These threads make me cry. I didn't know so many engineers lurked on NASIOC. Yes the upper wing does flex, the manual says it will. Means it is in the airflow foo! The whole STi hood assembly flexes too! You all gonna replace the hood now?? Oh Noes..
I got this off a Subaru site.
[IMG]http://img27.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img27&image=wing3yk.jpg[/IMG]
| Nupe | 02-17-2005 09:17 AM |
[QUOTE=RumblingREX]Can I get another AMEN! These threads make me cry. I didn't know so many engineers lurked on NASIOC. Yes the upper wing does flex, the manual says it will. Means it is in the airflow foo! The whole STi hood assembly flexes too! You all gonna replace the hood now?? Oh Noes..
I got this off a Subaru site.
[IMG]http://img27.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img27&image=wing3yk.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You are a Genius! Now maybe the haters will go away!
I got this off a Subaru site.
[IMG]http://img27.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img27&image=wing3yk.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You are a Genius! Now maybe the haters will go away!
| SpaceGhost | 02-17-2005 11:01 AM |
I'm not saying anything but that the wing does not close the trunk at 100+ MPH. Maybe it takes alot of pressure to over come the latch........
I would be interested in finding out how much pressure it takes to close the trunk without the trunk moving down first.(resting it on the latch then pushing)
My title may say "noob" but I have looked at this board as long as anybody here, I was here when it was I-club still.
I would be interested in finding out how much pressure it takes to close the trunk without the trunk moving down first.(resting it on the latch then pushing)
My title may say "noob" but I have looked at this board as long as anybody here, I was here when it was I-club still.
| Nupe | 02-17-2005 12:18 PM |
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost]I'm not saying anything but that the wing does not close the trunk at 100+ MPH. Maybe it takes alot of pressure to over come the latch........
I would be interested in finding out how much pressure it takes to close the trunk without the trunk moving down first.(resting it on the latch then pushing)
My title may say "noob" but I have looked at this board as long as anybody here, I was here when it was I-club still.[/QUOTE]
What in the hell are you talking about? Seriously? :confused:
I would be interested in finding out how much pressure it takes to close the trunk without the trunk moving down first.(resting it on the latch then pushing)
My title may say "noob" but I have looked at this board as long as anybody here, I was here when it was I-club still.[/QUOTE]
What in the hell are you talking about? Seriously? :confused:
| RumblingREX | 02-17-2005 12:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Nupe]What in the hell are you talking about? Seriously? :confused:[/QUOTE]
:lol:
:lol:
| conker69 | 02-17-2005 01:46 PM |
Functional or not I still plan to get an STi this weekend. :D
| KAX | 02-17-2005 03:15 PM |
isnt I-club a completely different forum?
| Ghost Rider | 02-17-2005 10:56 PM |
[QUOTE=STi_Thunder]The 911 Turbo has a huge ass spoiler. I'm sure it serves no purpose too, Porsche engineers just put it in for the bling, so that they get differentiated from the "inferior" 911 Carrera owners ... :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
well, i don't know abou tthe 911 but i do know that when they put the bigger engine in the audi TT they HAD to add a spoiler to keep the back end planted. it is a fact. The article appeared in Car & Driver about 3 years ago i believe.
I think that properly desinged venturis work better than huge wings though.
well, i don't know abou tthe 911 but i do know that when they put the bigger engine in the audi TT they HAD to add a spoiler to keep the back end planted. it is a fact. The article appeared in Car & Driver about 3 years ago i believe.
I think that properly desinged venturis work better than huge wings though.
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