| johnfelstead | 03-14-2002 06:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred Zaplitny [/i]
[B]donjuan,
I've been a Montoya fan ever since his rookie season in CART.
He's the first F1 driver I've really liked since Senna. I was a bigtime Zanardi fan too. Too bad F1 didn't work out for him. I've never been a fan of Micheal Schumacher. I respect what he has done and what he is capable of doing. I will be honored to say that I have seen him race and win, but I will never root for him. I am VERY sick of Micheal Schumacher. I DO NOT think he is the best ever. He might not even be the best right now. He certainly has the best driver/car combo at the moment though. Let's hope the new Ferrari is a dog! Yeah, that's going to happen!!
Fred
ps
I was a Nigel Mansell fan too! [/B][/QUOTE]
We should have a beer sometime Fred. Exactly my thoughts too. Anyone who needs a team mate to be subservient from race 2 of a championship doesnt deserve respect, even if they are the most tallented driver out there. Let them race, if your good enough you will win anyway.
Shuey cheated in Aus in 94, anyone who has ever driven a race car knows he hit Damon deliberately. Damon is a 2 time champ in my eyes. The guy tried it again against Villeneuve but didnt get away with it. It was that serious he was stripped of his points for the entire season because of that. The books dont show that though. He is a great tallent but he is a flawed tallent who cheats and makes a lot of mistakes, he just gets away with them more than others.
I liked damon a lot because he gave 100%, he wasnt the best out there on talent but he made up for it in real grit and determination. I [b]AM[/b] a huge Alex Zanardi fan, watched him race in the works esprit GT car in the wet at Donington, he was unbelievable, followed him ever since. I would love to meet that guy. Nigel had big balls, he has to have been one of the bravest guys to ever sit in an F1 car. I was living in the USA when Nigel came to CART, i had a ball with my American mates taking the piss as Nigel wooped their asses. :D:lol:
OK, predictions
1) Michael
2) RB
3) Chilli Dog
4) Ralf
5) Fissi
6) Button
[B]donjuan,
I've been a Montoya fan ever since his rookie season in CART.
He's the first F1 driver I've really liked since Senna. I was a bigtime Zanardi fan too. Too bad F1 didn't work out for him. I've never been a fan of Micheal Schumacher. I respect what he has done and what he is capable of doing. I will be honored to say that I have seen him race and win, but I will never root for him. I am VERY sick of Micheal Schumacher. I DO NOT think he is the best ever. He might not even be the best right now. He certainly has the best driver/car combo at the moment though. Let's hope the new Ferrari is a dog! Yeah, that's going to happen!!
Fred
ps
I was a Nigel Mansell fan too! [/B][/QUOTE]
We should have a beer sometime Fred. Exactly my thoughts too. Anyone who needs a team mate to be subservient from race 2 of a championship doesnt deserve respect, even if they are the most tallented driver out there. Let them race, if your good enough you will win anyway.
Shuey cheated in Aus in 94, anyone who has ever driven a race car knows he hit Damon deliberately. Damon is a 2 time champ in my eyes. The guy tried it again against Villeneuve but didnt get away with it. It was that serious he was stripped of his points for the entire season because of that. The books dont show that though. He is a great tallent but he is a flawed tallent who cheats and makes a lot of mistakes, he just gets away with them more than others.
I liked damon a lot because he gave 100%, he wasnt the best out there on talent but he made up for it in real grit and determination. I [b]AM[/b] a huge Alex Zanardi fan, watched him race in the works esprit GT car in the wet at Donington, he was unbelievable, followed him ever since. I would love to meet that guy. Nigel had big balls, he has to have been one of the bravest guys to ever sit in an F1 car. I was living in the USA when Nigel came to CART, i had a ball with my American mates taking the piss as Nigel wooped their asses. :D:lol:
OK, predictions
1) Michael
2) RB
3) Chilli Dog
4) Ralf
5) Fissi
6) Button
| Ryouga | 03-14-2002 07:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by J Colman [/i]
[B]Oh by the way, Schumi will win, and it's the reigenmeister, not rainmeister.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, it's regenmeister, pronounced ray gun my ster. What you wrote is pronounced rye gun my ster and means something else. :lol:
[B]Oh by the way, Schumi will win, and it's the reigenmeister, not rainmeister.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, it's regenmeister, pronounced ray gun my ster. What you wrote is pronounced rye gun my ster and means something else. :lol:
| J Colman | 03-14-2002 09:58 PM |
Whatever:rolleyes:
It's more accurate than rainmeister, and that was my point.
It's more accurate than rainmeister, and that was my point.
| grandpa rex | 03-15-2002 02:15 PM |
Responding to John Felstead:
I have always regarded your voice on this board as the most authoritative, and agree with you most of the time. However, I'll pick a bone or two with you on your assessment of MS.
You are correct that MS hit Damon Hill intentionally in Adelaide. And he hit Jacques deliberately as well. Given the fact that Senna and Prost had very similar dust-ups just a few years earlier, I think that the fact that he got a free pass is understandable. Not right, just understandable. I would argue that Schumacher's flaws are in his character and not in his driving abilities. In the 10 years or so that I have been following this sport with passion, I'm not sure I've seen anyone who is fundamentally quicker.
Re: Damon Hill. I think you Brits think too much of him. He drove clearly the best car and predictably won with it. When he drove for Arrows and Jordan, he did not seem to make those cars better (except for the race in Hungary where he almost won for Arrows). My read is a good, working man's driver.
Zanardi was a backmarker in F1 with Lotus, but a really good guy. I believe that his success in CART reflects the quality overall of F1 pilots as well as having a great CART team behind him. Mansell's success was predictable. He was fast and fearless. Even Christian Fittipaldi, Mark Blundell and Max Papis - clearly F1 also ran's - have won races and are/were considered fast.
JPM is a horse of a different color. Remember, he was Sir Frank's test pilot but was languishing behind Hill and Villeneuve and Frank farmed him out to CART where was an instant star. Frank is indeed one of the best judges of driver talent, and it's no mystery to me that JPM is a true star.
I respectfully suggest that many people don't like MS because of his arrogance. However, in my opinion, there isn't anyone in F1 today - and hasn't been anyone since Senna died - that could take an ordinary car and put it on the front of the grid other than Michael. True, today he has the best car - and it showed in the results last year: finishing 15 of 17 races with 14 top 2's!
I will freely admit that on a personal basis, there are many drivers that I like better. I just think that there are none that can drive better.
I have always regarded your voice on this board as the most authoritative, and agree with you most of the time. However, I'll pick a bone or two with you on your assessment of MS.
You are correct that MS hit Damon Hill intentionally in Adelaide. And he hit Jacques deliberately as well. Given the fact that Senna and Prost had very similar dust-ups just a few years earlier, I think that the fact that he got a free pass is understandable. Not right, just understandable. I would argue that Schumacher's flaws are in his character and not in his driving abilities. In the 10 years or so that I have been following this sport with passion, I'm not sure I've seen anyone who is fundamentally quicker.
Re: Damon Hill. I think you Brits think too much of him. He drove clearly the best car and predictably won with it. When he drove for Arrows and Jordan, he did not seem to make those cars better (except for the race in Hungary where he almost won for Arrows). My read is a good, working man's driver.
Zanardi was a backmarker in F1 with Lotus, but a really good guy. I believe that his success in CART reflects the quality overall of F1 pilots as well as having a great CART team behind him. Mansell's success was predictable. He was fast and fearless. Even Christian Fittipaldi, Mark Blundell and Max Papis - clearly F1 also ran's - have won races and are/were considered fast.
JPM is a horse of a different color. Remember, he was Sir Frank's test pilot but was languishing behind Hill and Villeneuve and Frank farmed him out to CART where was an instant star. Frank is indeed one of the best judges of driver talent, and it's no mystery to me that JPM is a true star.
I respectfully suggest that many people don't like MS because of his arrogance. However, in my opinion, there isn't anyone in F1 today - and hasn't been anyone since Senna died - that could take an ordinary car and put it on the front of the grid other than Michael. True, today he has the best car - and it showed in the results last year: finishing 15 of 17 races with 14 top 2's!
I will freely admit that on a personal basis, there are many drivers that I like better. I just think that there are none that can drive better.
| OnTheGas | 03-15-2002 04:08 PM |
Phoenix Cont.
I'm sure that not all of you have purchased a subscription to [url]http://www.atlasf1.com/[/url] so I thought I'd share this little tidbit from their grapevine section posted today...[quote][b][i]Walkinshaw's Racing Buddy[/i][/b]
When the news broke of Phoenix's purchase of the Prost Grand Prix assets, many were puzzled as to the identity of Charles Nickerson, who heads the Phoenix Finance company. But Nickerson, it seems, is no stranger to the motor racing scene.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, in fact, Nickerson - then driving under the name of Chuck Nicholson - had won several sportscar races, alongside co-driver... yes, you guessed it: Tom Walkinshaw of TWR and Arrows fame. The two had remained friends since, which all the more fuels rumours that the latest Prost purchase by Phoenix is nothing but a front for Walkinshaw himself.
[/quote]Not being familiar w/European sports and touring car racing of the 70's and 80's, I did a google search on Chuck Nicholson, and found that in the early 80's he and Tom Walkinshaw co-drove an RX7 and then a big 5+liter v12 jag xjs... they had some success w/the big jag...
When the news broke of Phoenix's purchase of the Prost Grand Prix assets, many were puzzled as to the identity of Charles Nickerson, who heads the Phoenix Finance company. But Nickerson, it seems, is no stranger to the motor racing scene.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, in fact, Nickerson - then driving under the name of Chuck Nicholson - had won several sportscar races, alongside co-driver... yes, you guessed it: Tom Walkinshaw of TWR and Arrows fame. The two had remained friends since, which all the more fuels rumours that the latest Prost purchase by Phoenix is nothing but a front for Walkinshaw himself.
[/quote]Not being familiar w/European sports and touring car racing of the 70's and 80's, I did a google search on Chuck Nicholson, and found that in the early 80's he and Tom Walkinshaw co-drove an RX7 and then a big 5+liter v12 jag xjs... they had some success w/the big jag...
| johnfelstead | 03-15-2002 04:57 PM |
One of my friends, Tony Sugden, had Nicholson as a codriver in one race in his sports car. He has been around racing a long time as a wealthy privateer.
As to shuey, i didnt say he wasnt the most tallented guy out there, he obviously is. I just cant respect the guy as much as i would like to be able to because he doesnt respect the sport. He makes sure that anyone who drives with him IS a #2 and DOES have to toe the line if he is having a bad weekend. That makes his stats look better than they should be. As a sportsman he is not high on my personal list, as a tallented driver he is very high up there.
I didnt particularly like Senna, i warmed to him as i learned more about him though, i certainly respected him as he never asked to be #1, he always fought his battles fairly for himself and if his team mate was faster that weekend, no big deal, he just made sure it didnt happen again. That i respected. Senna was treated very badly in Japan when he clashed with prost at the chicane and although won the title had it stripped by Jean Marie Balestre who was the most illogical man to head up a sporting body i have ever seen. The next year in Japan, after qualifying on pole balestre swapped pole to the other side of the track, efectively giving pole to prost. That was disgraceful. It was inevitable that Senna was going to drive right into prost at the first corner as soon as that decision was made.
What shuey did in Australia and Japan was a totally diferent thing.
I think i said Damon isnt the best tallent in my first statement, he is very gutsy though and tried real hard. He is a bloody great bloke too. I seem to recall Damon winning Jordans first race at Spa in the rain so he did achieve some good results post Williams and lets face it, hungary in the Arrows was a miracle, he had no right to be leading that race, that car was poo. :D
Opinions on drivers are a personal thing, shuey is an amazing driver to watch race, mega talented, he doesnt do anything to make me be a fan though. If he stopped this nonsensikle team orders situation i would be more impressed by him.
As to shuey, i didnt say he wasnt the most tallented guy out there, he obviously is. I just cant respect the guy as much as i would like to be able to because he doesnt respect the sport. He makes sure that anyone who drives with him IS a #2 and DOES have to toe the line if he is having a bad weekend. That makes his stats look better than they should be. As a sportsman he is not high on my personal list, as a tallented driver he is very high up there.
I didnt particularly like Senna, i warmed to him as i learned more about him though, i certainly respected him as he never asked to be #1, he always fought his battles fairly for himself and if his team mate was faster that weekend, no big deal, he just made sure it didnt happen again. That i respected. Senna was treated very badly in Japan when he clashed with prost at the chicane and although won the title had it stripped by Jean Marie Balestre who was the most illogical man to head up a sporting body i have ever seen. The next year in Japan, after qualifying on pole balestre swapped pole to the other side of the track, efectively giving pole to prost. That was disgraceful. It was inevitable that Senna was going to drive right into prost at the first corner as soon as that decision was made.
What shuey did in Australia and Japan was a totally diferent thing.
I think i said Damon isnt the best tallent in my first statement, he is very gutsy though and tried real hard. He is a bloody great bloke too. I seem to recall Damon winning Jordans first race at Spa in the rain so he did achieve some good results post Williams and lets face it, hungary in the Arrows was a miracle, he had no right to be leading that race, that car was poo. :D
Opinions on drivers are a personal thing, shuey is an amazing driver to watch race, mega talented, he doesnt do anything to make me be a fan though. If he stopped this nonsensikle team orders situation i would be more impressed by him.
| OnTheGas | 03-15-2002 05:01 PM |
MS, Damon Hill, JPM and Theology...
grandpa rex - I'm very glad you posted, because I agree w/you on most of your points...
Two quick things:
- Damon vs. Schumie
Damon has only one WC in part because he had less confidence than Schumie... Schumie bullied Damon in the press which, along w/the other junk written in the press, seemed to effect Hill. He could of had another WC or two, but failed due to the unreliability of his car, and also due to his own shortcomings.
- Montoya
What makes him different is his confidence and mental strength... This week he said that he was concentrating on the points... and part of his quote was chastised earlier in this thread, but I found what he said very significant, because last season he did not care about points, he was just wanting to climb the podium a few times...
But now his focus is very different... each race is now an opportunity to score points, and hopefully finish ahead of Schumie. His aim is now the WC.
In the F1 paddock, it is refreshing to hear someone besides MS speak of winning the WC. Besides having a reliable, quick car, the WC requires a confident driver, who is reliable, quick, and focuses on the big picture, the championship(s).
DC is fast enough, but inconsistant, Kimi is a big unknown, but certainly has the confidence, which is a big part of the package. But Montoya has the most confidence of any driver besides Schumacher. And now he is focused on the wc. If his team provides him enough car, he can do what it takes to win the WC.
Two quick things:
- Damon vs. Schumie
Damon has only one WC in part because he had less confidence than Schumie... Schumie bullied Damon in the press which, along w/the other junk written in the press, seemed to effect Hill. He could of had another WC or two, but failed due to the unreliability of his car, and also due to his own shortcomings.
- Montoya
What makes him different is his confidence and mental strength... This week he said that he was concentrating on the points... and part of his quote was chastised earlier in this thread, but I found what he said very significant, because last season he did not care about points, he was just wanting to climb the podium a few times...
But now his focus is very different... each race is now an opportunity to score points, and hopefully finish ahead of Schumie. His aim is now the WC.
In the F1 paddock, it is refreshing to hear someone besides MS speak of winning the WC. Besides having a reliable, quick car, the WC requires a confident driver, who is reliable, quick, and focuses on the big picture, the championship(s).
DC is fast enough, but inconsistant, Kimi is a big unknown, but certainly has the confidence, which is a big part of the package. But Montoya has the most confidence of any driver besides Schumacher. And now he is focused on the wc. If his team provides him enough car, he can do what it takes to win the WC.
| gtguy | 03-15-2002 05:53 PM |
What's funny is that I just watched that Schumi/Hill Australia tape the other night. It seems to me that if Hill had just been patient enough to wait for Schumacher, rather than trying to take immediate advantage of the situation, he would have been world champion.
What Schumacher did to Villeneuve was ridiculous, even if you're a fan of the man. But I have always said that the difference between Schumacher and the other drivers mentally is if you laid their mothers across the apex, most would brake, some would lift. Schumacher would think "Sorry, mum" and stay on the racing line and pace. Montoya is the first driver in a while of whom I have been able to think the same thing.
It's also too bad that Jacques has been ruined by years of crappy cars.
I can't respect Damon Hill all that much, because I watched him make too many boneheaded moves after Schumacher got into his head. As another poster said, the guy had to have a vastly superior car to get his world championship.
I am, however, looking for great things from Kimi. Notice how he's going better than DC, who must be thinking "Oh, crap. Another fast-assed Finn."
Schumacher is the driver that people love to hate, and that's fine. Yep, he's a thug, no question about it. I think that's cool, in part because it makes other drivers drive to account for him. Look at Trulli at Australia. His spin reminded me of the time I knocked myself down (in a match sprint) trying to keep a faster rider behind me. :o
I also quibble with the fact that he demands that his co-drivers be number two. I think that he's never had a driver who deserved to be on an equal footing within the team. It was sort of like Scottie Pippen (for you Bulls fans) carping about not getting as many plays called for him as Michael Jordan. Well, duh!
:lol:
Kevin
What Schumacher did to Villeneuve was ridiculous, even if you're a fan of the man. But I have always said that the difference between Schumacher and the other drivers mentally is if you laid their mothers across the apex, most would brake, some would lift. Schumacher would think "Sorry, mum" and stay on the racing line and pace. Montoya is the first driver in a while of whom I have been able to think the same thing.
It's also too bad that Jacques has been ruined by years of crappy cars.
I can't respect Damon Hill all that much, because I watched him make too many boneheaded moves after Schumacher got into his head. As another poster said, the guy had to have a vastly superior car to get his world championship.
I am, however, looking for great things from Kimi. Notice how he's going better than DC, who must be thinking "Oh, crap. Another fast-assed Finn."
Schumacher is the driver that people love to hate, and that's fine. Yep, he's a thug, no question about it. I think that's cool, in part because it makes other drivers drive to account for him. Look at Trulli at Australia. His spin reminded me of the time I knocked myself down (in a match sprint) trying to keep a faster rider behind me. :o
I also quibble with the fact that he demands that his co-drivers be number two. I think that he's never had a driver who deserved to be on an equal footing within the team. It was sort of like Scottie Pippen (for you Bulls fans) carping about not getting as many plays called for him as Michael Jordan. Well, duh!
:lol:
Kevin
| grandpa rex | 03-15-2002 06:14 PM |
Wow, what great comments.
John Felstead: as I said, I believe that you are the most authoritative voice on this board, and I believe that we are in nearly total agreement. sorry, I forgot about Hill winning Spa.
Again: great series of comments here on a GP weekend. I'm a cranky old bastar*, but I really enjoy this interchange wtih others passionate about this sport.
John Felstead: as I said, I believe that you are the most authoritative voice on this board, and I believe that we are in nearly total agreement. sorry, I forgot about Hill winning Spa.
Again: great series of comments here on a GP weekend. I'm a cranky old bastar*, but I really enjoy this interchange wtih others passionate about this sport.
| OnTheGas | 03-16-2002 01:22 AM |
Schumacher's Pole Time 2001 vs 2002
Interesting about Schumie's pole time here at Sepang today... his pole time last year was faster...
2001 - 1m 35.220s
2002 - 1m 35.266s
Let us know if you know why... because this seems curious... (I didn't see the broadcast, BTW, if it was explained why there.)
2001 - 1m 35.220s
2002 - 1m 35.266s
Let us know if you know why... because this seems curious... (I didn't see the broadcast, BTW, if it was explained why there.)
| pio!pio! | 03-16-2002 02:30 AM |
Re: Schumacher's Pole Time 2001 vs 2002
On his qualifying lap, he had to go past two cars, so although it didn't seem to impede him, probably had some sort of mental affect as he had to take them into account.
also it was hot as hades there
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]Interesting about Schumie's pole time here at Sepang today... his pole time last year was faster...
2001 - 1m 35.220s
2002 - 1m 35.266s
Let us know if you know why... because this seems curious... (I didn't see the broadcast, BTW, if it was explained why there.) [/B][/QUOTE]
also it was hot as hades there
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]Interesting about Schumie's pole time here at Sepang today... his pole time last year was faster...
2001 - 1m 35.220s
2002 - 1m 35.266s
Let us know if you know why... because this seems curious... (I didn't see the broadcast, BTW, if it was explained why there.) [/B][/QUOTE]
| OnTheGas | 03-16-2002 03:10 AM |
Re: Re: Schumacher's Pole Time 2001 vs 2002
Here is why I was surprised... I believe it was hotter last year:
33C-34C ambient, track temps 45-38C, while this year I believe it was hazy, and ambient was ~32C... (track temp ?)
Compare the Albert Park pole times:
2001 - 1m 26.892s
2002 - 1m 25.843s = -1.049s
So in australia they were more than one full second faster, even though they lost half of the qualifying session to rain, and another 8 minutes to Sato's car being yanked out of harm's way... With Albert Park being a green track, they would have found more time on the track if it had not rained.
So at Sepang, I expected them to be ~.5s faster, if not more, in these conditions. I doubt that Michael was balked on all of his runs, and even if he was particularly unlucky w/all of his laps and traffic, someone should have turned a faster lap than last years pole...
I just read that Michael was surprised as well, and he didn't have any explanation to offer... I wonder if this means the tires are slower and more durable, so that we are likely to see 1 stop strategies tomorrow...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by pio!pio! [/i]
[B]On his qualifying lap, he had to go past two cars, so although it didn't seem to impede him, probably had some sort of mental affect as he had to take them into account.
also it was hot as hades there
[/B][/QUOTE]
33C-34C ambient, track temps 45-38C, while this year I believe it was hazy, and ambient was ~32C... (track temp ?)
Compare the Albert Park pole times:
2001 - 1m 26.892s
2002 - 1m 25.843s = -1.049s
So in australia they were more than one full second faster, even though they lost half of the qualifying session to rain, and another 8 minutes to Sato's car being yanked out of harm's way... With Albert Park being a green track, they would have found more time on the track if it had not rained.
So at Sepang, I expected them to be ~.5s faster, if not more, in these conditions. I doubt that Michael was balked on all of his runs, and even if he was particularly unlucky w/all of his laps and traffic, someone should have turned a faster lap than last years pole...
I just read that Michael was surprised as well, and he didn't have any explanation to offer... I wonder if this means the tires are slower and more durable, so that we are likely to see 1 stop strategies tomorrow...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by pio!pio! [/i]
[B]On his qualifying lap, he had to go past two cars, so although it didn't seem to impede him, probably had some sort of mental affect as he had to take them into account.
also it was hot as hades there
[/B][/QUOTE]
| pio!pio! | 03-16-2002 03:13 AM |
Maybe the air wasn't of great quality cuz of the peat fire.
IIRC the air was VERY hazy..so that stuff is being sucked into the engine.
IIRC the air was VERY hazy..so that stuff is being sucked into the engine.
| johnfelstead | 03-16-2002 10:53 AM |
I would think the main reason is the temperature of the track.
The tyres used in Malasia are designed to work at MUCH higher temperatures than you saw in qualifying, the temps were down 10 degrees C over last year. The tyre manufacturers have come up with very special compounds to withstand that temp for a full race distance, it's a bigger change in temp than you saw in Australia as regards the working temps that they were designed for.
Another factor that came into this, and allowed Williams to compete with Ferrari is that Michellin brought two compounds to Malasia, they had a primary that was designed to be run, they also had an option compound that was a backup should conditions be colder. It turned out that the option compound was 0.5 seconds faster so Williams and McLaren used that compound and will have to use it in the race.
If the temps rise significantly, Ferrari will walk away with the race, if they stay low we are going to see a good scrap.
The tyres used in Malasia are designed to work at MUCH higher temperatures than you saw in qualifying, the temps were down 10 degrees C over last year. The tyre manufacturers have come up with very special compounds to withstand that temp for a full race distance, it's a bigger change in temp than you saw in Australia as regards the working temps that they were designed for.
Another factor that came into this, and allowed Williams to compete with Ferrari is that Michellin brought two compounds to Malasia, they had a primary that was designed to be run, they also had an option compound that was a backup should conditions be colder. It turned out that the option compound was 0.5 seconds faster so Williams and McLaren used that compound and will have to use it in the race.
If the temps rise significantly, Ferrari will walk away with the race, if they stay low we are going to see a good scrap.
| OnTheGas | 03-17-2002 03:56 AM |
donjuan - We Are Not Worthy...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by donjuan [/i]
[B]1. Ralf Schumacher
2. Kimi Raikkonen
3. Juan Pablo Montoya
4. Michael Schumacher
5. Nick Heidfeld
6. Felipe Massa
[/B][/QUOTE]
Actual Results:[list=1][*]Ralfie -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [*]Montoya -> [COLOR=firebrick]Missed by only ONE position![/COLOR] [*]Schumie -> [COLOR=firebrick]Missed by only ONE position![/COLOR] [*]Button -> I think only JohnFeldstead picked Button 2B in the points, Bravo John! [*]Heidfeld -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [*]Massa -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [/list=1]
donjuan - You are scary good! Please don't forget to pick up your prize check at the window when leaving this evening!
[B]1. Ralf Schumacher
2. Kimi Raikkonen
3. Juan Pablo Montoya
4. Michael Schumacher
5. Nick Heidfeld
6. Felipe Massa
[/B][/QUOTE]
Actual Results:[list=1][*]Ralfie -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [*]Montoya -> [COLOR=firebrick]Missed by only ONE position![/COLOR] [*]Schumie -> [COLOR=firebrick]Missed by only ONE position![/COLOR] [*]Button -> I think only JohnFeldstead picked Button 2B in the points, Bravo John! [*]Heidfeld -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [*]Massa -> [COLOR=red]Exact Pick![/COLOR] [/list=1]
donjuan - You are scary good! Please don't forget to pick up your prize check at the window when leaving this evening!
| johnfelstead | 03-17-2002 04:50 AM |
Shame for Jenson, he should have gained his first ever podium. The team say he had a rollcentre control related failure, broken anti-roll bar (OK sway bar to you lot ;)) to you and me.
Big shame for Alan McNish too. I think his was the drive of the race. From 19th to 11th in a couple of laps and was running an asured 6th until the team screwed up his pitstop, they couldnt find his tyres, after wasting tons of time he went out on his original fronts! Still a brilliant result for Toyota in only their second race. I bet BAR are seriously cheesed off at how well they are doing after their first year predictions that turned to Nil Points!
The penalty to Montoya was a JOKE. Totally unjustified. Even Michael in the press conference said it was unfair and the stewards need to be more consistent! Dont they want to see racing or something. Two races and two very poor decisions at the start AFAIAC. I still think Ralf would have won and Chilli Dog second after the incident, but thats not the point!
Did you see the state of Chilli Dogs front left tyre after the race? That was a slick, Zero grooves left. Are we going to see a protest? If ever we are this year it will be now! The rules are not clear on this as by the letter of the law you only have to start with groves but you know how F1 works, Bridgestone have threatened to protest Michelin if they did see a slick at the end of the race. Only the teams can protest though so we'll see. The scrutineers could throw the result out themselves if they see fit.
Renault are proving that the pain from last year was justified, i expect them to get stronger as the season progresses, they will end the year 4th i believe, maybe even 3rd if McLaren screw up on reliability.
DC had his ass wooped in Kimi's second race for McLaren. After he retired he gave some nonsense about being able to pass kimi if he kept running. I dont think so David, give it up cos your pants. :D
Jaguar were pretty bobbins to say the least. I expect to see the R2 brought back for brazil, the R3 just isnt working, they were 2 seconds a lap slower than last years car.
Will Ferrari now bring the new car to brazil? I dont think they will. The reason they didnt win was down to strategy on the fuel stops plus the fact Michelin had a better tyre in the heat. I dont think having the new car would have helped them. If i were them i would use the old car in Brazil and then get the new car running for the European season, it will be bullit proof by then.
The two Jordans hit each other. Oops. Slapped wrists for Sato i would imagine. :lol:
Not a bad race, nice to see an Arrows overtake Shuey in the Ferrari in a genuine race move too, you dont see that very often!
BAR, Pants as usual. I would think David is going to get his hatchet out pretty soon. He is going to want to scare the pants out of his team and get some new blood in, he is a brilliant dictator and knows how to gell a team quickly and put the presure on those who dont perform. I expect quite a few stories about people leaving BAR in the next 3 months.
Minardi, did their usual job, Yoong was doing OK really, better than in Australia.
Poor Rubens, that guy has no luck at all. He wouldnt have won, he would have taken second though.
Who is going to be champion this year? Always hard to say after the first couple of races. I think it's going to be between Chilli Dog and Michael. I'll tell you after the first European race is run. :lol:
Big shame for Alan McNish too. I think his was the drive of the race. From 19th to 11th in a couple of laps and was running an asured 6th until the team screwed up his pitstop, they couldnt find his tyres, after wasting tons of time he went out on his original fronts! Still a brilliant result for Toyota in only their second race. I bet BAR are seriously cheesed off at how well they are doing after their first year predictions that turned to Nil Points!
The penalty to Montoya was a JOKE. Totally unjustified. Even Michael in the press conference said it was unfair and the stewards need to be more consistent! Dont they want to see racing or something. Two races and two very poor decisions at the start AFAIAC. I still think Ralf would have won and Chilli Dog second after the incident, but thats not the point!
Did you see the state of Chilli Dogs front left tyre after the race? That was a slick, Zero grooves left. Are we going to see a protest? If ever we are this year it will be now! The rules are not clear on this as by the letter of the law you only have to start with groves but you know how F1 works, Bridgestone have threatened to protest Michelin if they did see a slick at the end of the race. Only the teams can protest though so we'll see. The scrutineers could throw the result out themselves if they see fit.
Renault are proving that the pain from last year was justified, i expect them to get stronger as the season progresses, they will end the year 4th i believe, maybe even 3rd if McLaren screw up on reliability.
DC had his ass wooped in Kimi's second race for McLaren. After he retired he gave some nonsense about being able to pass kimi if he kept running. I dont think so David, give it up cos your pants. :D
Jaguar were pretty bobbins to say the least. I expect to see the R2 brought back for brazil, the R3 just isnt working, they were 2 seconds a lap slower than last years car.
Will Ferrari now bring the new car to brazil? I dont think they will. The reason they didnt win was down to strategy on the fuel stops plus the fact Michelin had a better tyre in the heat. I dont think having the new car would have helped them. If i were them i would use the old car in Brazil and then get the new car running for the European season, it will be bullit proof by then.
The two Jordans hit each other. Oops. Slapped wrists for Sato i would imagine. :lol:
Not a bad race, nice to see an Arrows overtake Shuey in the Ferrari in a genuine race move too, you dont see that very often!
BAR, Pants as usual. I would think David is going to get his hatchet out pretty soon. He is going to want to scare the pants out of his team and get some new blood in, he is a brilliant dictator and knows how to gell a team quickly and put the presure on those who dont perform. I expect quite a few stories about people leaving BAR in the next 3 months.
Minardi, did their usual job, Yoong was doing OK really, better than in Australia.
Poor Rubens, that guy has no luck at all. He wouldnt have won, he would have taken second though.
Who is going to be champion this year? Always hard to say after the first couple of races. I think it's going to be between Chilli Dog and Michael. I'll tell you after the first European race is run. :lol:
| grandpa rex | 03-17-2002 08:06 AM |
On the gas:
Please note that I had both Heidfeld and Button in the points on my predictions.
Please note that I had both Heidfeld and Button in the points on my predictions.
| gtguy | 03-17-2002 10:31 AM |
And hey, how 'bout those podium and press conference scenes. What joy, huh? It looked in the press conference like Ralf was saying "Okay guys, no punches until I can get out of here!"
The Montoya penalty was quite the surprise, and rather humorous, actually. I think that both drivers were disinclined to yield, though it appeared that Montoya had the line. johnfelstead is right in every analysis, I think.
Poor Rubens indeed, and what a hose job for Button! The McNish thing would have been funny were it not such a bummer.
All in all, a good race. I still don't think we'll see the F2002 until the fourth or even fifth race of the season. It's quite a luxury to be able to completely wring a car out, running the old car while you do so.
This should be an interesting season, and I don't think that there will be any early title clinches this year.
Kevin
The Montoya penalty was quite the surprise, and rather humorous, actually. I think that both drivers were disinclined to yield, though it appeared that Montoya had the line. johnfelstead is right in every analysis, I think.
Poor Rubens indeed, and what a hose job for Button! The McNish thing would have been funny were it not such a bummer.
All in all, a good race. I still don't think we'll see the F2002 until the fourth or even fifth race of the season. It's quite a luxury to be able to completely wring a car out, running the old car while you do so.
This should be an interesting season, and I don't think that there will be any early title clinches this year.
Kevin
| J Colman | 03-17-2002 04:37 PM |
I agree about not seeing the new Ferrari for a couple more races. The car was strong as Michael, and Rubens showed, but both had bad luck. I was suprised to see Rubens' engine let loose, but I guess the heat even gets to the Ferrari's at times.
Great race for Ralf, he was certainly showing his pace by keeping up with Rubens on a much heavier fuel load. I hope this Ralf, Chili Dog, Michael battle holds up for the majority of the season.
I think Kimi will get the better of DC all year, I think DC has lost a little something, years of choking will do that to a person, now after 2 races he is already losing out to his new team mate, must be disheartening.
I think Jensen, and Fisi will have a say in a few more races this year, just bad luck so far.
Great race for Ralf, he was certainly showing his pace by keeping up with Rubens on a much heavier fuel load. I hope this Ralf, Chili Dog, Michael battle holds up for the majority of the season.
I think Kimi will get the better of DC all year, I think DC has lost a little something, years of choking will do that to a person, now after 2 races he is already losing out to his new team mate, must be disheartening.
I think Jensen, and Fisi will have a say in a few more races this year, just bad luck so far.
| bliu | 03-17-2002 06:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bliu [/i]
[B]chalk one up for another F1 lurker ... i shall make my predictions for the comedic/stupid/crazy if he's right at all factor ...
1) MS
2) RS
3) Kimi
4) JPM
5) DC
6) Salo (hey, i'm a toyota fan ... can't help myself:p)
where's reubens you ask? um, blown engine ... really - ferrari with a blown engine. (going for a ryouga type prediction here ... ;)) [/B][/QUOTE]
just finished watching my tape of the race ... i guess the newbie F1 fan doesn't get credit for his weird predictions, huh? true, i had some bad picks, but c'mon! give me some credit for me predicting reubens' blown engine!:o :p
[B]chalk one up for another F1 lurker ... i shall make my predictions for the comedic/stupid/crazy if he's right at all factor ...
1) MS
2) RS
3) Kimi
4) JPM
5) DC
6) Salo (hey, i'm a toyota fan ... can't help myself:p)
where's reubens you ask? um, blown engine ... really - ferrari with a blown engine. (going for a ryouga type prediction here ... ;)) [/B][/QUOTE]
just finished watching my tape of the race ... i guess the newbie F1 fan doesn't get credit for his weird predictions, huh? true, i had some bad picks, but c'mon! give me some credit for me predicting reubens' blown engine!:o :p
| Fred Zaplitny | 03-17-2002 09:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Who is going to be champion this year? Always hard to say after the first couple of races. I think it's going to be between Chilli Dog and Michael. I'll tell you after the first European race is run. :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yessir! I agree completely, I don't see anybody else even coming close. Those two will be the most consistant and competative in every race. This race foreshadows that with both of them having troubles (some of which were caused by the FIA!) and still coming back to finish on the podium. I personally just don't want to see a Schumacher domination like last season.
PS: We'll have that beer someday! :D
[B]Who is going to be champion this year? Always hard to say after the first couple of races. I think it's going to be between Chilli Dog and Michael. I'll tell you after the first European race is run. :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Yessir! I agree completely, I don't see anybody else even coming close. Those two will be the most consistant and competative in every race. This race foreshadows that with both of them having troubles (some of which were caused by the FIA!) and still coming back to finish on the podium. I personally just don't want to see a Schumacher domination like last season.
PS: We'll have that beer someday! :D
| donjuan | 03-18-2002 08:05 AM |
OnTheGas---thanks, but I'm bound to hit it right once in awhile. I'm not scary good, just lucky this time. I'll be sure to pick up my prize though :)
Good race this weekend. I was disappointed for Barrichello and Button also. Event of the race for me though: Sato vs. Fisichella. I would have loved to see EJ's face on that one. That was just horrible...
Holy ***** award: Toyota. I'll happily eat my preseason words about them, they are NOT what I thought they'd be...
Williams 1-2 so I'm happy.
Good race this weekend. I was disappointed for Barrichello and Button also. Event of the race for me though: Sato vs. Fisichella. I would have loved to see EJ's face on that one. That was just horrible...
Holy ***** award: Toyota. I'll happily eat my preseason words about them, they are NOT what I thought they'd be...
Williams 1-2 so I'm happy.
| WeRX | 03-18-2002 04:06 PM |
Toyota's success isn't much of a surprise, they are a company with tremendous resources and the ability to use all those resources efficiently. Their dedication is certainly unwavering considering the huge outlay of cash it took to make it even this far.
| Lurker | 03-18-2002 04:32 PM |
Another nomination for moment of the race: Button and Montoya going side-by-side through the esses as Button fought (quite well!) to keep Montoya behind him. [IMG]http://www.i-club.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif[/IMG]
| Ryouga | 03-18-2002 04:45 PM |
I should've known they would give the bum engine to Rubens instead of Michael. :D
I was also praying for rain. Oh well.
It's too bad Jenson had that suspension failure, too. Would've been nice to see him get his first podium.
I'm really shocked by how bad McLaren is doing. If Mercedes were a horse, I think I would've taken them out behind the shed and shot them in the head by now. :lol:
I was also praying for rain. Oh well.
It's too bad Jenson had that suspension failure, too. Would've been nice to see him get his first podium.
I'm really shocked by how bad McLaren is doing. If Mercedes were a horse, I think I would've taken them out behind the shed and shot them in the head by now. :lol:
| johnfelstead | 03-18-2002 07:58 PM |
hows about this for an early prediction.
DC to leave Mclaren, Heidfeld to McLaren for 2003.
DC to leave F1 and open up a jewelers shop in Monaco, specialising in Chokers. :lol::D
You're on Fred. Bitburger works for me. :D
DC to leave Mclaren, Heidfeld to McLaren for 2003.
DC to leave F1 and open up a jewelers shop in Monaco, specialising in Chokers. :lol::D
You're on Fred. Bitburger works for me. :D
| Fred Zaplitny | 03-19-2002 01:34 AM |
John,
What the hell is bitburger?! I can make it over to the UK this summer if you can get me a ticket to the British GP. I'll pay for it of course, just get me a ticket. I'd love to vacation in the UK for the race, meet you finally, and of course, drive your Westy! :D Yeah, like you'd let me drive it!
What the hell is bitburger?! I can make it over to the UK this summer if you can get me a ticket to the British GP. I'll pay for it of course, just get me a ticket. I'd love to vacation in the UK for the race, meet you finally, and of course, drive your Westy! :D Yeah, like you'd let me drive it!
| OnTheGas | 03-19-2002 01:42 PM |
Bitburger - "Bitte ein Bit"
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred Zaplitny [/i]
[B]John,
What the hell is bitburger?![/B][/QUOTE]Bitburger is a german beer... Good beer, BTW!
Remember when they sponsored Schumie in his early seasons at Benetton? Schumie's Benetton Ford used to "Bitburger - Bitte ein Bit" on it, as did his driver's suit... I think that translates as "Bitburger - Request a bit"... but I know no german, and so that translation comes from babelfish.altavista.com...
[B]John,
What the hell is bitburger?![/B][/QUOTE]Bitburger is a german beer... Good beer, BTW!
Remember when they sponsored Schumie in his early seasons at Benetton? Schumie's Benetton Ford used to "Bitburger - Bitte ein Bit" on it, as did his driver's suit... I think that translates as "Bitburger - Request a bit"... but I know no german, and so that translation comes from babelfish.altavista.com...
| johnfelstead | 03-19-2002 02:07 PM |
Bitburger is the best beer in the world, tastes best when served straight from the pump in the Lindenhof bar, Nurburg, Germany. :D
Dunno the situation on tickets for the British GP, they have limited the number masively this year due to all the threats by the FIA about taking the race away due to traffic congestion problems. They are bloody expensive too, over $200 for a general admision ticket! I'll check it out as i havent really looked into it, bloody rip off.
Dunno the situation on tickets for the British GP, they have limited the number masively this year due to all the threats by the FIA about taking the race away due to traffic congestion problems. They are bloody expensive too, over $200 for a general admision ticket! I'll check it out as i havent really looked into it, bloody rip off.
| nhalterman | 03-19-2002 02:25 PM |
I know I'm really late with this comment but....
How did you like Ferrari's new take on two-way telemetry? The self-destruct button on Frasier's car!
"Michael Needs the points, time for the button!" :lol: :D
How did you like Ferrari's new take on two-way telemetry? The self-destruct button on Frasier's car!
"Michael Needs the points, time for the button!" :lol: :D
| EricSC | 03-19-2002 02:57 PM |
Have there been any comments made about the tires? From the little bit you could see as they got out of the car it looked like Ralf's tires were pretty slick. I was convinced we'd hear more about that.
-Eric
-Eric
| johnfelstead | 03-19-2002 03:24 PM |
There hasnt been any protests so that should be it for the year on that front. Chilli Dog's tyres were slicks after that race!
| grandpa rex | 03-19-2002 03:51 PM |
Bitburg also tastes great from the tap in Frankfurt and isn't too shabby right out of the bottle. I had quite a few when I was there in January
| pio!pio! | 03-19-2002 04:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]There hasnt been any protests so that should be it for the year on that front. Chilli Dog's tyres were slicks after that race! [/B][/QUOTE]
So is it possible to retroactively protest?
Cuz if a team (say Williams) protests say at the end of the season when points start to matter more, can another team retroactively protest Montoya's tires at then of Sepang?
If that's not the case, the precedent is set for no protests. Then if THAT is true, then the tire manufacturers an start making grooved tires where the groove wears off in one lap or something!
[B]There hasnt been any protests so that should be it for the year on that front. Chilli Dog's tyres were slicks after that race! [/B][/QUOTE]
So is it possible to retroactively protest?
Cuz if a team (say Williams) protests say at the end of the season when points start to matter more, can another team retroactively protest Montoya's tires at then of Sepang?
If that's not the case, the precedent is set for no protests. Then if THAT is true, then the tire manufacturers an start making grooved tires where the groove wears off in one lap or something!
| callawayv | 03-19-2002 06:38 PM |
I think the only rule covering the tires is that you can see a groove, like what does that mean? The announcers made mention that that makes it WIDE open for interpretation.
hmmmmm
I would sure like to see FIA take Jacque's suggestion too have way less testing and more races, I think they were talking about 26.
That would be cool.
:)
hmmmmm
I would sure like to see FIA take Jacque's suggestion too have way less testing and more races, I think they were talking about 26.
That would be cool.
:)
| OnTheGas | 03-19-2002 08:32 PM |
FIA Will Try To Decide The World Championship
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]There hasnt been any protests so that should be it for the year on that front. Chilli Dog's tyres were slicks after that race! [/B][/QUOTE]But that would imply that FIA consistently enforces their own regulations...
:lol:
I predict that FIA will visit this issue at another race and that at least one team will pay a price...
If you're the tire supplier, you gotta be wondering if you can put out tires that wear down to slicks quickly, but run well as slicks... more grip, and more grip...
[B]There hasnt been any protests so that should be it for the year on that front. Chilli Dog's tyres were slicks after that race! [/B][/QUOTE]But that would imply that FIA consistently enforces their own regulations...
:lol:
I predict that FIA will visit this issue at another race and that at least one team will pay a price...
If you're the tire supplier, you gotta be wondering if you can put out tires that wear down to slicks quickly, but run well as slicks... more grip, and more grip...
| Fred Zaplitny | 03-19-2002 11:00 PM |
They'll probably give Montoya another drive through penalty at the next race for his bald tires. You know, like that one they gave him for his horrible crime of racing against Schumacher. What was he thinking? Doesn't he know that Schumacher is the greatest formula one driver of all time and he is to let the German pass him at will? :rolleyes:
I'll have to try that Bitburger stuff. I think I know a place here that would carry it.
Hey when Montoya was going through the drive through in Malaysia on his penalty, do you think he got fries with his chili dog? :D
I'll have to try that Bitburger stuff. I think I know a place here that would carry it.
Hey when Montoya was going through the drive through in Malaysia on his penalty, do you think he got fries with his chili dog? :D
| Ryouga | 03-20-2002 02:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred Zaplitny [/i]
[B]Hey when Montoya was going through the drive through in Malaysia on his penalty, do you think he got fries with his chili dog? :D [/B][/QUOTE]
No, I think he got CHILI CHEESE fries. :lol:
[B]Hey when Montoya was going through the drive through in Malaysia on his penalty, do you think he got fries with his chili dog? :D [/B][/QUOTE]
No, I think he got CHILI CHEESE fries. :lol:
| GarySheehan | 03-20-2002 06:19 PM |
Anyone have rebroadcast information for this race. I missed it this weekend and I'm hoping to see it. I don't understand why WRC is rebroadcast 20 times on Speedvision but I can't find an F1 rebroadcast.
No offense to you rally afficianados. I'm sure you're in heaven with the current rally broadcasts :)
Gary
No offense to you rally afficianados. I'm sure you're in heaven with the current rally broadcasts :)
Gary
| donjuan | 03-21-2002 10:56 AM |
Gary, I think after the Australian GP, they re-ran it on the following Friday at like 3 in the morning. Not sure about this time around, but Speed Channel has weekly schedules on the website....
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