| Wheels | 06-19-2005 08:36 PM |
[QUOTE=chaddeus]So they didn't they do it. The resurfacing of the track isn't a secret issue.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Because no F1 team is based in the USA and its not offered as a test track by the FIA so no F1 team uses it. Plus the cost of logistics to ship a team here is huge. Also no team could call the US home because again it costs so much to ship to all the other countrys from here.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Because no F1 team is based in the USA and its not offered as a test track by the FIA so no F1 team uses it. Plus the cost of logistics to ship a team here is huge. Also no team could call the US home because again it costs so much to ship to all the other countrys from here.
| Tim K. | 06-19-2005 08:39 PM |
[QUOTE=c9912033]You are all part time fans anyway. It's only because of politics that F1 is in the U.S at all.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
How do you come to that conclusion? :huh: Your statement is truly ignorant and inflammatory.
Tim,
I didn't realize the new Michelin tires suffered from the same problems. There was still a way to run the race and a compromise could have been reached. I don't think Ferrari is the one to blame in this situation. From the letter the FIA released, it didn't sound like Ferrari made the decision to have or not have a chicane.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
How do you come to that conclusion? :huh: Your statement is truly ignorant and inflammatory.
Tim,
I didn't realize the new Michelin tires suffered from the same problems. There was still a way to run the race and a compromise could have been reached. I don't think Ferrari is the one to blame in this situation. From the letter the FIA released, it didn't sound like Ferrari made the decision to have or not have a chicane.
| TOMMY B | 06-19-2005 08:43 PM |
[QUOTE=c9912033]Isn't it sad that the U.S miss out on an F1 race. You are all part time fans anyway. It's only because of politics that F1 is in the U.S at all.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Are you a woman traped in a mans body ?????
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Are you a woman traped in a mans body ?????
| MattNJ2.8 | 06-19-2005 08:43 PM |
[QUOTE=c9912033]Isn't it sad that the U.S miss out on an F1 race. You are all part time fans anyway. It's only because of politics that F1 is in the U.S at all.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Not cool. Drop dead.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Not cool. Drop dead.
| Tim K. | 06-19-2005 08:44 PM |
Lifted from the F1.Live.com website.
The following is a joint statement from the Michelin runners who did not take part in the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis.
"The Michelin teams deeply regret the position that they have been put in today and would like to apologise to all the spectators, TV viewers, Formula One fans and sponsors for not being able to take part in today's USA Grand Prix.
Following Ralf Schumacher's accident on Friday morning, we were advised by Michelin that none of the tyres that were available to the teams could be used unless the vehicle speed in Turn 13 was reduced. Without this Michelin did not consider the tyre to be safe to be used for the race.
All the teams are confident in Michelin and trust their advice as we know they are competent and responsible and their written instruction to us not to race unless changes to the circuit were made was accepted.
After final data from Michelin became available at 06.30 on Sunday morning it became clear that Michelin were not able to guarantee the safety of the drivers. Numerous discussions and meetings took place to find a safe solution to the problem. Every possibility for the race to go ahead in a safe manner was explored. The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid.
Unfortunately all proposals were rejected by the FIA.
Safety is always the first concern of any team and the FIA. Regrettably the teams were obliged to follow Michelin's requirements not to race.
We are totally aware that the USA is an important market for Formula One and there is an obligation for Formula One to promote itself in a positive and professional manner. It is sad that we couldn't showcase Formula One in the manner we would have liked today."
The following is a joint statement from the Michelin runners who did not take part in the US Grand Prix at Indianapolis.
"The Michelin teams deeply regret the position that they have been put in today and would like to apologise to all the spectators, TV viewers, Formula One fans and sponsors for not being able to take part in today's USA Grand Prix.
Following Ralf Schumacher's accident on Friday morning, we were advised by Michelin that none of the tyres that were available to the teams could be used unless the vehicle speed in Turn 13 was reduced. Without this Michelin did not consider the tyre to be safe to be used for the race.
All the teams are confident in Michelin and trust their advice as we know they are competent and responsible and their written instruction to us not to race unless changes to the circuit were made was accepted.
After final data from Michelin became available at 06.30 on Sunday morning it became clear that Michelin were not able to guarantee the safety of the drivers. Numerous discussions and meetings took place to find a safe solution to the problem. Every possibility for the race to go ahead in a safe manner was explored. The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid.
Unfortunately all proposals were rejected by the FIA.
Safety is always the first concern of any team and the FIA. Regrettably the teams were obliged to follow Michelin's requirements not to race.
We are totally aware that the USA is an important market for Formula One and there is an obligation for Formula One to promote itself in a positive and professional manner. It is sad that we couldn't showcase Formula One in the manner we would have liked today."
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 08:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Wheels]Because no F1 team is based in the USA and its not offered as a test track by the FIA so no F1 team uses it. Plus the cost of logistics to ship a team here is huge. Also no team could call the US home because again it costs so much to ship to all the other countrys from here.[/QUOTE]
In warfare, information is expensive and important. Same in Business and same in racing. If you loose the war, business deal or like what we are talking about, the race due to poor tires caused by lack of information, you either got to adapt the fact and adjust your racing strategy to suit the environment and come back again strong rather than trying to bend the rules.
Rules are like law. They should not be changed as they wish. If this is the case, who is running the F1 race? FIA or Michelin?
- Charles
In warfare, information is expensive and important. Same in Business and same in racing. If you loose the war, business deal or like what we are talking about, the race due to poor tires caused by lack of information, you either got to adapt the fact and adjust your racing strategy to suit the environment and come back again strong rather than trying to bend the rules.
Rules are like law. They should not be changed as they wish. If this is the case, who is running the F1 race? FIA or Michelin?
- Charles
| desiwrx02 | 06-19-2005 08:59 PM |
I wast there. Got up at 345 to be at the gate at 445 to get prime seats. Great race.
Ajay
Ajay
| TimStevens | 06-19-2005 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE=chaddeus]In warfare, information is expensive and important. Same in Business and same in racing. If you loose the war, business deal or like what we are talking about, the race due to poor tires caused by lack of information, you either got to adapt the fact and adjust your racing strategy to suit the environment and come back again strong rather than trying to bend the rules.
Rules are like law. They should not be changed as they wish. If this is the case, who is running the F1 race? FIA or Michelin?[/QUOTE]
This isn't war; this isn't the law; this is a game. This is an exhibition put on for the fans. When the FIA gets so sure of their own damned importance that they'd rather ruin the show for the fans or risk the lives of the drivers than work to create a compromise something is seriously, seriously, seriously wrong.
Tim K. I'm definitely not blaming Ferrari either. Yeah, Michelin screwed up, but IMHO something better could have come of it than this. As DC implied, they could have put in the chicane, run the "Race", and given the top six points to the Bridgestone runners and let the last two positions go to the top two Michelin finishers. Something ridiculous like that... anything was better than what we did have.
Rules are like law. They should not be changed as they wish. If this is the case, who is running the F1 race? FIA or Michelin?[/QUOTE]
This isn't war; this isn't the law; this is a game. This is an exhibition put on for the fans. When the FIA gets so sure of their own damned importance that they'd rather ruin the show for the fans or risk the lives of the drivers than work to create a compromise something is seriously, seriously, seriously wrong.
Tim K. I'm definitely not blaming Ferrari either. Yeah, Michelin screwed up, but IMHO something better could have come of it than this. As DC implied, they could have put in the chicane, run the "Race", and given the top six points to the Bridgestone runners and let the last two positions go to the top two Michelin finishers. Something ridiculous like that... anything was better than what we did have.
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 09:11 PM |
I think teams using Michelin would not want them to do that. Its partly legal, partly political.
- Charles
- Charles
| TOMMY B | 06-19-2005 09:19 PM |
Tim Stevens,
Rules are Rules
Tires are like shoes in a football, The game goes on with or with out them......
Michelin is to blame..... not the FIA this time.
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////////////////
Rules are Rules
Tires are like shoes in a football, The game goes on with or with out them......
Michelin is to blame..... not the FIA this time.
TOMMY B
RALLY ON /////////////////////////////
| Stein | 06-19-2005 09:26 PM |
"Michelin supplies well over half of the F1 field. When they have a problem, it is far more visible then when Bridgestone does. Michelin teams had an option of competing with tire changes. Of course, they would have had to change tires every ten to fifteen laps but they could have competed."
Isn't there a rule saying only 1 set of tires per weekend?
Isn't there a rule saying only 1 set of tires per weekend?
| LIRex | 06-19-2005 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE=c9912033]Isn't it sad that the U.S miss out on an F1 race. You are all part time fans anyway. It's only because of politics that F1 is in the U.S at all.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Some of us may be part time fans, hardly all of us, but based on your above referenced comment....Your a full time A**Hole :devil:
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Some of us may be part time fans, hardly all of us, but based on your above referenced comment....Your a full time A**Hole :devil:
| KAX | 06-19-2005 09:29 PM |
everyone could have done something in this situation so there is no point in throwing the blame. Michelin could have tested, Indy could have warned michellin because it happened 2 times before (indy 500 and Nascar testes were cancelled due to extensive tire wear), FIA could have comprimised and Bridgestone (Ferrari) could have refused to race as well giving FIA nothing to bargain with and making them the jacka**es. The point is this was a HUGE failure and F1 gets hurt by it. Hopefully the USGP will still be around, i really wouldnt mind moving it somewhere else to be more like other tracks and to stop this from happening again, but i doubt that will happen.
Im still waiting for 2008 before i stop watching :rolleyes:
Im still waiting for 2008 before i stop watching :rolleyes:
| dubRexn | 06-19-2005 09:31 PM |
man, I wish i hadn't spent the 150 bucks on those tickets, at least all the michelin teams stood united, should make a statement to FIA, what they should do, and have done was have the same tires on al the cars, so if an event happened, they would all get new tires or cancel the event
| Bonzo | 06-19-2005 09:43 PM |
Anyone just watch Windtunnel?
Peter WIndsor for president!
I agree 100% with his commenst during the show.
Michelin screwed up. Tires and cars fail all the time. Drivers have to drive around faults or things in the car that are not perfect. Let em race. If you don't want to race face the consequences.
The FIA cannot change the rules for one tire problem. Bridgstone did their homework and capitalised. Thanks go to Michelin for ruining the USGP.
Peter WIndsor for president!
I agree 100% with his commenst during the show.
Michelin screwed up. Tires and cars fail all the time. Drivers have to drive around faults or things in the car that are not perfect. Let em race. If you don't want to race face the consequences.
The FIA cannot change the rules for one tire problem. Bridgstone did their homework and capitalised. Thanks go to Michelin for ruining the USGP.
| TOMMY B | 06-19-2005 09:49 PM |
I hear you......... Your right..........
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 10:05 PM |
I bet 2006 F1 USGP will still be here with roughly the same # of people. Maybe slight decrease but the decrease isn't going to be dramatic. I know there will still be a lot of true strong F1 fans around and I will be there :)
I kind of like Honda but they did not participate and my position towards them isn't going change my position. I blame the event to Michelin and not Honda or any other team.
- Charles
I kind of like Honda but they did not participate and my position towards them isn't going change my position. I blame the event to Michelin and not Honda or any other team.
- Charles
| Snowphun | 06-19-2005 10:07 PM |
Do people really think there will be no GP at Indy 2006? Seems extreme to me, but I suppose it's possible.
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:13 PM |
god you people are retarded. How can a french tire manufacturer test on american soil? How is it michilens fault that they dont have a sister company who runs here? How is it their fault that they didnt know how the new surface would react and didnt have a tire to suit it. you guys are rediculous blaming this on anyone. Michelin cannot know that they tires would fail, they brought the same spec tires they used last year and they ran fine. Everyone could have done something, but im sure FIa would have done something to stop all of it. Even if they ran at slower speeds, whats stopping the marshalls from throwing the black flag to all of them for endangering the others who are going 200 mph around the turn. They would have done it to a car if he had a mechanical failure and wasnt going up to speed, thats what the black flag is usually for.
There was no way to get around this, even the chicane wouldnt have changed anything, the tires still would have burst (according to Michael Schumacher after talking to a michelin tec.). Its no ones fault for this as everyone could have stopped it. Stop blaming michelin, they did nothing wrong.
There was no way to get around this, even the chicane wouldnt have changed anything, the tires still would have burst (according to Michael Schumacher after talking to a michelin tec.). Its no ones fault for this as everyone could have stopped it. Stop blaming michelin, they did nothing wrong.
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 10:15 PM |
Personally, I think the safety issue is just Michelin's excuse that they dont have the right competitive tires for the track but that is my personal opinion and could be wrong.
Obviously, Michelin say that the IMS must install a temporary chicane to slow down the cars on turn 12/13 and FIA gave them suggestions that they should slow down around that corner. But Michelin rejected that suggestion stating that is unsafe.
So that concludes that drivers can still slow down at turn 12/13 without the chicane and still continue to run safely.
- Charles
Obviously, Michelin say that the IMS must install a temporary chicane to slow down the cars on turn 12/13 and FIA gave them suggestions that they should slow down around that corner. But Michelin rejected that suggestion stating that is unsafe.
So that concludes that drivers can still slow down at turn 12/13 without the chicane and still continue to run safely.
- Charles
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 10:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Snowphun]Do people really think there will be no GP at Indy 2006? Seems extreme to me, but I suppose it's possible.[/QUOTE]
Please. I still want to watch GP!! How about this, one more time in Indy and after that, they can move to other places :)
- Charles
Please. I still want to watch GP!! How about this, one more time in Indy and after that, they can move to other places :)
- Charles
| gtguy | 06-19-2005 10:21 PM |
I was at the race today, with seats both at start/finish and turn one. Interestingly, there was significantly more disgruntlement at start/finish than at turn one. Can't figure that one out.
The atmosphere was tense, to say the least. When fans began getting rowdy, extra Indiana State Troopers were brought in to show the colors. Some were booing Ferrari, a stance that I don't understand.
It was eerie, but certainly a history-making event, just not for reasons that anyone would care to want to repeat. What I don't understand is why the Michelin teams went through the shlemozzle of going through the gridding and parade lap, only to pull into the pits after the parade lap. It made a vile situation even more so.
A number of things happened, in almost this order:
Toyota had failures
Michelin recalled all of the tires and inspected them, finding that all had a similar defect
The teams agreed to have a special Michelin tire flown in (leading the announcer to speculate that the teams who were diving into the pits were doing so to change tires.)
Race day comes, and the Michelin teams demanded a chicane (though some drivers heard from Michelin folks that a chicane wouldn't have helped).
The replacements were found to have the same deficiency at the tires they would have replaced.
The drivers' excuse is that they were told by teams to take the parade lap, and that if the chicane decision hadn't come down by race time, to pull off.
The nonsense begins.
There really isn't anyone to blame here except Michelin, in my estimation. They've been coming to the USGP for six years now, and everyone knows the special loads that turn thirteen places on the cars and tires. For Michelin not to have a tire that could race is inexcusable. Attendance was about 120,000, with people leaving in droves as the race began, and it became apparent that there would only be six cars racing.
Give the credit to the teams who decided to race, IMHO. Many are painting Ferrari out to be the bad guys for not agreeing to the chicane, which is nonsense. The FIA, in the same way they forced the rule changes on the teams, should have said "For the safety of the drivers..." That the Concorde Agreement which calls for unanimity from teams is so malleable is bollocks.
Many, many fans stuck it out, to cheer the drivers who did take part, for taking part. The press conference, where some people were almost asking Schumacher "How dare you race," were ridiculous. What else was he supposed to do? It wasn't his fault that Bridgestone had their act together.
There was speculation about what is going to transpire in the aftermath. Certainly, today's events made a very strong argument for a spec tire, and according to comments from Ecclestone, Michelin wouldn't be in the running, were said decision to be made anytime soon. Joie Chitwood was saying that refunds were being contemplated, as well as seeking redress from the FIA.
It also points out the "give us the keys and get out of our way" mentality that F1 bring to the USGP. The track owners were as shocked as the fans.
Ultimately, the sport got a significant black eye, and you have to wonder what the organizers of a potential second (or replacement) USGP in Las Vegas thought about today's events. The other question that has to be asked is, would this have happened in Europe? It's a well-known fact that none of the teams and drivers like the Indy race or town, for that matter. Is it also a question of respect?
I dunno. What I do know is this. As an F1 fan, I was appalled. As a sporting events conoisseur I was fascinated, and as a journalist I was thrilled to the point of goosebumps to be at such an (unfortunately) historic event. Tell you what, though. We had plenty to talk about for the ride home. And some old man in Italy who had money on Minardi getting points and Jordan getting a podium in the same race, is now yacht shopping. :lol:
Kevin
The atmosphere was tense, to say the least. When fans began getting rowdy, extra Indiana State Troopers were brought in to show the colors. Some were booing Ferrari, a stance that I don't understand.
It was eerie, but certainly a history-making event, just not for reasons that anyone would care to want to repeat. What I don't understand is why the Michelin teams went through the shlemozzle of going through the gridding and parade lap, only to pull into the pits after the parade lap. It made a vile situation even more so.
A number of things happened, in almost this order:
Toyota had failures
Michelin recalled all of the tires and inspected them, finding that all had a similar defect
The teams agreed to have a special Michelin tire flown in (leading the announcer to speculate that the teams who were diving into the pits were doing so to change tires.)
Race day comes, and the Michelin teams demanded a chicane (though some drivers heard from Michelin folks that a chicane wouldn't have helped).
The replacements were found to have the same deficiency at the tires they would have replaced.
The drivers' excuse is that they were told by teams to take the parade lap, and that if the chicane decision hadn't come down by race time, to pull off.
The nonsense begins.
There really isn't anyone to blame here except Michelin, in my estimation. They've been coming to the USGP for six years now, and everyone knows the special loads that turn thirteen places on the cars and tires. For Michelin not to have a tire that could race is inexcusable. Attendance was about 120,000, with people leaving in droves as the race began, and it became apparent that there would only be six cars racing.
Give the credit to the teams who decided to race, IMHO. Many are painting Ferrari out to be the bad guys for not agreeing to the chicane, which is nonsense. The FIA, in the same way they forced the rule changes on the teams, should have said "For the safety of the drivers..." That the Concorde Agreement which calls for unanimity from teams is so malleable is bollocks.
Many, many fans stuck it out, to cheer the drivers who did take part, for taking part. The press conference, where some people were almost asking Schumacher "How dare you race," were ridiculous. What else was he supposed to do? It wasn't his fault that Bridgestone had their act together.
There was speculation about what is going to transpire in the aftermath. Certainly, today's events made a very strong argument for a spec tire, and according to comments from Ecclestone, Michelin wouldn't be in the running, were said decision to be made anytime soon. Joie Chitwood was saying that refunds were being contemplated, as well as seeking redress from the FIA.
It also points out the "give us the keys and get out of our way" mentality that F1 bring to the USGP. The track owners were as shocked as the fans.
Ultimately, the sport got a significant black eye, and you have to wonder what the organizers of a potential second (or replacement) USGP in Las Vegas thought about today's events. The other question that has to be asked is, would this have happened in Europe? It's a well-known fact that none of the teams and drivers like the Indy race or town, for that matter. Is it also a question of respect?
I dunno. What I do know is this. As an F1 fan, I was appalled. As a sporting events conoisseur I was fascinated, and as a journalist I was thrilled to the point of goosebumps to be at such an (unfortunately) historic event. Tell you what, though. We had plenty to talk about for the ride home. And some old man in Italy who had money on Minardi getting points and Jordan getting a podium in the same race, is now yacht shopping. :lol:
Kevin
| MJU1983 | 06-19-2005 10:25 PM |
I was there, it was nutty... I "almost" saw a fight!
:)
EDIT: [b]gtguy[/b] good read!
:)
EDIT: [b]gtguy[/b] good read!
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]god you people are retarded. How can a french tire manufacturer test on american soil? How is it michilens fault that they dont have a sister company who runs here? How is it their fault that they didnt know how the new surface would react and didnt have a tire to suit it. you guys are rediculous blaming this on anyone. Michelin cannot know that they tires would fail, they brought the same spec tires they used last year and they ran fine. Everyone could have done something, but im sure FIa would have done something to stop all of it. Even if they ran at slower speeds, whats stopping the marshalls from throwing the black flag to all of them for endangering the others who are going 200 mph around the turn. They would have done it to a car if he had a mechanical failure and wasnt going up to speed, thats what the black flag is usually for.
There was no way to get around this, even the chicane wouldnt have changed anything, the tires still would have burst (according to Michael Schumacher after talking to a michelin tec.). Its no ones fault for this as everyone could have stopped it. Stop blaming michelin, they did nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]
Maybe everyone is at fault but I'll say Michelin is at fault the most. If they find problems with their tires Thusday and assume Friday confirmed the problem, they should ship their tires from France direct and arrive here on Saturday before the Qualifying. The rule here is that you are not allowed to change your tires after qualifying and that was AGREED earlier on with ALL the teams!
The fact is that they made a mistake bringing the wrong tires and was not suitable for the condition can't change the rule.
What do you think of the statement by FIA, "Change of course in order to help some of teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tires"
Do you think that is a fair statement? Personally, I think its a fair one. Its true isn't it?
- Charles
There was no way to get around this, even the chicane wouldnt have changed anything, the tires still would have burst (according to Michael Schumacher after talking to a michelin tec.). Its no ones fault for this as everyone could have stopped it. Stop blaming michelin, they did nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]
Maybe everyone is at fault but I'll say Michelin is at fault the most. If they find problems with their tires Thusday and assume Friday confirmed the problem, they should ship their tires from France direct and arrive here on Saturday before the Qualifying. The rule here is that you are not allowed to change your tires after qualifying and that was AGREED earlier on with ALL the teams!
The fact is that they made a mistake bringing the wrong tires and was not suitable for the condition can't change the rule.
What do you think of the statement by FIA, "Change of course in order to help some of teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tires"
Do you think that is a fair statement? Personally, I think its a fair one. Its true isn't it?
- Charles
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:34 PM |
Michelin is not at all to blame, they cant test on this surface and it was announced on Speed that the new surface was bad for tires, Michelin did not know this when Bridgestone did because of Firestones running the Indy 500. Michelin is 0% to blame as they did all they could do get their teams to race and showed great respect for the teams and drivers by stating all of this when they know it will look bad for them.
Going slow on that that turn is just as dangerous as going fast and their tires exploding. Michelin was doing this all on the thought of safety and refused this as an acceptable alternative as it proved to be just as dangerous. And whose to say a black flag would come out for them all anyway? It would happen any other day and the FIA seems to be a stickler for staying on the rules with no give whatsoever.
maybe tickets will be cheaper next year? Time to go see another race
Going slow on that that turn is just as dangerous as going fast and their tires exploding. Michelin was doing this all on the thought of safety and refused this as an acceptable alternative as it proved to be just as dangerous. And whose to say a black flag would come out for them all anyway? It would happen any other day and the FIA seems to be a stickler for staying on the rules with no give whatsoever.
maybe tickets will be cheaper next year? Time to go see another race
| skiteton | 06-19-2005 10:36 PM |
[QUOTE=c9912033]Isn't it sad that the U.S miss out on an F1 race. You are all part time fans anyway. It's only because of politics that F1 is in the U.S at all.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm...part time? Politics? After witnessing this debacle firsthand, your statement makes me even more angry. Thanks for the fuel! :furious:
I suppose you were there on Fri., Sat., and race day and have all the races taped and cataloged?
I was there and it was a sad day for F1. Shame on Michelin for not doing their homework before arriving at the track. It sucked for the people that went to cheer on "their" team and ended up knowing the outcome of the podium as soon as the last Michelin-shod car backed into the garage. :mad:
Remember to let your displeasure be known to FIA, F1, and Michelin. Not the IMS.
Couldn't have happened to a better country.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm...part time? Politics? After witnessing this debacle firsthand, your statement makes me even more angry. Thanks for the fuel! :furious:
I suppose you were there on Fri., Sat., and race day and have all the races taped and cataloged?
I was there and it was a sad day for F1. Shame on Michelin for not doing their homework before arriving at the track. It sucked for the people that went to cheer on "their" team and ended up knowing the outcome of the podium as soon as the last Michelin-shod car backed into the garage. :mad:
Remember to let your displeasure be known to FIA, F1, and Michelin. Not the IMS.
| Scoobie Doogie | 06-19-2005 10:36 PM |
NO to Vegas.....too damn hot, unless it's in Jan-Feb. I will agree that a spec tire is the best solution. Blame is squarely on Michelin though. They should have done their homework. They have resources to get info and test on tracks anywhere in the world, shame on them.
Dave
Dave
| subbyspeed | 06-19-2005 10:37 PM |
i was at the race today.. And it was a huge waste of time.
Shame on Formula 1 for allowing this to happen. Once again, they've managed to steer away any American audience.
Shame on Formula 1 for allowing this to happen. Once again, they've managed to steer away any American audience.
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:37 PM |
i agree its completely fair what the FIA did. But its not fair for all of you to cast out michelin as its not their fault. If you want to throw the blame on the first problem that occured then Indy is at fault for their bad job of resurfacing the track when it threw off two other races already this year.
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]They have resources to get info and test on tracks anywhere in the world, shame on them.
Dave[/QUOTE]
not when they have 3 days to do it!!!
and Indy is just as hot in the summer as vegas im sure.
Dave[/QUOTE]
not when they have 3 days to do it!!!
and Indy is just as hot in the summer as vegas im sure.
| nick735 | 06-19-2005 10:43 PM |
Im pissed because Raikkonen most likely would have won the race (if nothing abnormal happened), and would have closed the gap on that lucky bastard alanso. Now there is just one more driver in the race for the championship.
| LIRex | 06-19-2005 10:43 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]not when they have 3 days to do it!!!
and Indy is just as hot in the summer as vegas im sure.[/QUOTE]
You have obviously NEVER been to Vegas in the summer :rolleyes:
Fact is the fans were the ultimate losers in this. Formula One now has a black eye to go along with it's ****ty attitude and Shumie got a win (Funny how it took an incident like this for it to happen ;) )
Place blame wherever your hearts desires but it was a BAD day for F1. PERIOD
and Indy is just as hot in the summer as vegas im sure.[/QUOTE]
You have obviously NEVER been to Vegas in the summer :rolleyes:
Fact is the fans were the ultimate losers in this. Formula One now has a black eye to go along with it's ****ty attitude and Shumie got a win (Funny how it took an incident like this for it to happen ;) )
Place blame wherever your hearts desires but it was a BAD day for F1. PERIOD
| skiteton | 06-19-2005 10:44 PM |
[QUOTE=nick735]Im pissed because Raikkonen most likely would have won the race (if nothing abnormal happened), and would have closed the gap on that lucky bastard alanso. Now there is just one more driver in the race for the championship.[/QUOTE]
exactly!!!
exactly!!!
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:49 PM |
your right ive never been to vegas in the summer, only christmas.
but about michael being part of the race for the championship. doubtful, he still cant win a race, or even grab a podium without 5 people being dropped out of a race. the gap between him and raikkonen will get bigger and raikkonen will still take the championship, were only halfway done.
only thing im really pissed of is ferrari now being tied for second in the constructors, theyre ging to get a lot more money out of this season now than they would have without this race, i doubt bmw and toyota will be able to make up the lost points and ferrari will get 3rd
but about michael being part of the race for the championship. doubtful, he still cant win a race, or even grab a podium without 5 people being dropped out of a race. the gap between him and raikkonen will get bigger and raikkonen will still take the championship, were only halfway done.
only thing im really pissed of is ferrari now being tied for second in the constructors, theyre ging to get a lot more money out of this season now than they would have without this race, i doubt bmw and toyota will be able to make up the lost points and ferrari will get 3rd
| chaddeus | 06-19-2005 10:51 PM |
Anyway, I was there during the race. I really felt very sad when people wrongly blame who is at fault. Anyway, booing is ok (understandable) but if you boo because other people boo while you don't know the reason, I think that is the reason why I am sad.
- Charles
- Charles
| KAX | 06-19-2005 10:54 PM |
i think thats the reason people at turn 1 werent angry, they didnt know what happened cuz they cant really see the pit very well from there
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 10:56 PM |
[QUOTE=chaddeus]One thing that I dont understand is teams running on Michelin tires. If the agreed on giving the top points to Bridgestone teams (as some of you mentioned) and continue the race, then why can't they just simply run slower and go to the pit and check their tires more often as suggested by FIA?
If that is the case, teams running on Michelin tires can just continue running the race slowly. Now, I think there more political issue here than safety. If Michelin agreed that there's problem with their tires, why are team drivers still do their qualifying lap?
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Because you can't control drivers when they're on the track, and no "set number" of speed reduction could be proven to make the tires safe. You keep saying it would have been unfair to change the course...why aren't you understanding that if that happened, the points would have all been awarded to the Bridgestone teams and the Michelin runners would be either going for the remaining few points, or just running non-comp. Realize this fact, and stop making the unfair cry...NO ONE HAS PROPOSED changing the course and NOT giving the Bridgestone guys the points...FOR THE 100TH TIME
If that is the case, teams running on Michelin tires can just continue running the race slowly. Now, I think there more political issue here than safety. If Michelin agreed that there's problem with their tires, why are team drivers still do their qualifying lap?
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Because you can't control drivers when they're on the track, and no "set number" of speed reduction could be proven to make the tires safe. You keep saying it would have been unfair to change the course...why aren't you understanding that if that happened, the points would have all been awarded to the Bridgestone teams and the Michelin runners would be either going for the remaining few points, or just running non-comp. Realize this fact, and stop making the unfair cry...NO ONE HAS PROPOSED changing the course and NOT giving the Bridgestone guys the points...FOR THE 100TH TIME
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 11:02 PM |
[QUOTE=OnTheGas]
Besides violating many rules, that would not be practical. If I receive points before the red lights go out, why would I want to race?
But let's move beyond that... What about the 2 races per engine rule? If some teams are enabled to earn points, and other teams are not enabled to earn points, what is the fair way to handle the 2 races per engine rule?
If your team is fielding two non-points paying cars, wouldn't it be advantageous to run for awhile, and then blow both engines? Fresh engines for the next race![/QUOTE]
Why would you want to race? Oh I don't know...BUT EVERY DRIVER OUT THERE DID. They want to race for the fans, and for the sport, to keep F1 in the american market...or how about the hundreds of thousands of dollars in testing time each team would be getting...Every team was in agreemrnt on the proposed changes, if you had a team maybe you wouldn't have, but they all wanted to race...so much so that they were embarassed when it didn't happen...
Besides violating many rules, that would not be practical. If I receive points before the red lights go out, why would I want to race?
But let's move beyond that... What about the 2 races per engine rule? If some teams are enabled to earn points, and other teams are not enabled to earn points, what is the fair way to handle the 2 races per engine rule?
If your team is fielding two non-points paying cars, wouldn't it be advantageous to run for awhile, and then blow both engines? Fresh engines for the next race![/QUOTE]
Why would you want to race? Oh I don't know...BUT EVERY DRIVER OUT THERE DID. They want to race for the fans, and for the sport, to keep F1 in the american market...or how about the hundreds of thousands of dollars in testing time each team would be getting...Every team was in agreemrnt on the proposed changes, if you had a team maybe you wouldn't have, but they all wanted to race...so much so that they were embarassed when it didn't happen...
| Templar | 06-19-2005 11:03 PM |
It looks to me like the French surrendered...
yet again.
J/K, I couldn't resist the political remark after that morons comments about the US, after it is the blood of our soldiers that has meant the free people of the world can stay free for over 60 years.
yet again.
J/K, I couldn't resist the political remark after that morons comments about the US, after it is the blood of our soldiers that has meant the free people of the world can stay free for over 60 years.
| Clegg | 06-19-2005 11:06 PM |
the people I feel the worst for after the fans who paid their hard earned bucks to see a Ferrari test day... is the IMS folks. As much as I think Tony George is a ****ing moron for what hes done for open wheel racing in the US, the USGP event has really put them in a bad postion. I mean it was pretty obvious how pissed they were when they wouldnt take part in the ceremony.
I wouldnt be the slightest amazed if Tony told Bernie to go f*ck himself on next years event.
because from what it sounds like Tony was asking "what do we need to do to make this happen?" and had a team on stand by ready to put out a chichane on turn 13.
I feel fortunate I didnt have the cash to go down there this year... really as others have said this is all Michelin's fault, 100%. On the F1 tire testing day at IMS there were only like 2 drivers/teams who came to test (Masa and Davidson I believe). Also as Gtguy said... Michelin isnt new to the track... new surface or not, you think that a tire MFG would make sure they are prepared for any changes in surface at future races.
I wouldnt be the slightest amazed if Tony told Bernie to go f*ck himself on next years event.
because from what it sounds like Tony was asking "what do we need to do to make this happen?" and had a team on stand by ready to put out a chichane on turn 13.
I feel fortunate I didnt have the cash to go down there this year... really as others have said this is all Michelin's fault, 100%. On the F1 tire testing day at IMS there were only like 2 drivers/teams who came to test (Masa and Davidson I believe). Also as Gtguy said... Michelin isnt new to the track... new surface or not, you think that a tire MFG would make sure they are prepared for any changes in surface at future races.
| az ej20 fan | 06-19-2005 11:08 PM |
I believe it's Michelin's fault - 100% - it's not like the USGP was just added to the schedule. They must have known that a resurfacing took place. If they (or the teams) didn't test there prior to qualifying, shame on them.
The only real losers are the fans...pay good money for tickets, travel expenses, etc. Who is giving them their money back? No one...
Hey Michelin why bring a knife to a gunfight? Might want to do your homework in the future (and maybe bring some development/engineers over here - not that it matters now).
The only real losers are the fans...pay good money for tickets, travel expenses, etc. Who is giving them their money back? No one...
Hey Michelin why bring a knife to a gunfight? Might want to do your homework in the future (and maybe bring some development/engineers over here - not that it matters now).
| esteve | 06-19-2005 11:14 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]i agree its completely fair what the FIA did. But its not fair for all of you to cast out michelin as its not their fault. If you want to throw the blame on the first problem that occured then Indy is at fault for their bad job of resurfacing the track when it threw off two other races already this year.[/QUOTE]
Then why wasn't Bridgestone affected?
Then why wasn't Bridgestone affected?
| Clegg | 06-19-2005 11:15 PM |
one thing that I find interesting is people who dont care about F1 or racing in general are even commenting in other forums and places I follow. Mainly about how F1 has no place in american motorsports if they dont care about the spectator or realize that the spectator IS the person who writes the checks that let these people play with their toys.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 11:16 PM |
[QUOTE=chaddeus]Personally, I think the safety issue is just Michelin's excuse that they dont have the right competitive tires for the track but that is my personal opinion and could be wrong.
Obviously, Michelin say that the IMS must install a temporary chicane to slow down the cars on turn 12/13 and FIA gave them suggestions that they should slow down around that corner. But Michelin rejected that suggestion stating that is unsafe.
So that concludes that drivers can still slow down at turn 12/13 without the chicane and still continue to run safely.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Under performing? If I'm not mistaken, the fastest guys were on Michelins...they couldn't race because they were unsafe...or did you miss the two crashes? Oh yeah, have you ever seen a tire co throw a whole race because they were underperforming? Of course not (again, Michelin tires were faster anyway). You think Michelin would create this, which is going to find up costing them AN HUGE amount of money to save face from an underperforming tire??? You must be insane!!! any given race, one tire is stronger than another......
How can you control all those drivers by telling them to "slow down"???Are you serious??? Do you think they'd slow down? They're freaking race car drivers,, you thin JPM would slow??? Heck no he wouldn't, FIA offered no reasonable alternative. Bridgestone could have gotten all the points, and fans could have seen a race...bottom line, there was a better solution...
Obviously, Michelin say that the IMS must install a temporary chicane to slow down the cars on turn 12/13 and FIA gave them suggestions that they should slow down around that corner. But Michelin rejected that suggestion stating that is unsafe.
So that concludes that drivers can still slow down at turn 12/13 without the chicane and still continue to run safely.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Under performing? If I'm not mistaken, the fastest guys were on Michelins...they couldn't race because they were unsafe...or did you miss the two crashes? Oh yeah, have you ever seen a tire co throw a whole race because they were underperforming? Of course not (again, Michelin tires were faster anyway). You think Michelin would create this, which is going to find up costing them AN HUGE amount of money to save face from an underperforming tire??? You must be insane!!! any given race, one tire is stronger than another......
How can you control all those drivers by telling them to "slow down"???Are you serious??? Do you think they'd slow down? They're freaking race car drivers,, you thin JPM would slow??? Heck no he wouldn't, FIA offered no reasonable alternative. Bridgestone could have gotten all the points, and fans could have seen a race...bottom line, there was a better solution...
| az ej20 fan | 06-19-2005 11:16 PM |
They have testing facilities here
| WRSport | 06-19-2005 11:17 PM |
Now whats this news about the "TIRE TEST day" that everyone choose to avoid other than two cars. Was any Michelin runner involved in the tire test day that was available to f1 teams?
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 11:18 PM |
[QUOTE=esteve]Then why wasn't Bridgestone affected?[/QUOTE]
Indy runs Firestones (Bridgestone company), when INDY testing cancelled due to tire failure earlier this year, speculation is they got on the phone with Bridgestone to tell them about the problems...
Indy runs Firestones (Bridgestone company), when INDY testing cancelled due to tire failure earlier this year, speculation is they got on the phone with Bridgestone to tell them about the problems...
| GotHP? | 06-19-2005 11:18 PM |
[QUOTE=KAX]Michelin is not at all to blame, they cant test on this surface and it was announced on Speed that the new surface was bad for tires, Michelin did not know this when Bridgestone did because of Firestones running the Indy 500. Michelin is 0% to blame as they did all they could do get their teams to race and showed great respect for the teams and drivers by stating all of this when they know it will look bad for them.
[/QUOTE]
This is 100% incorrect. Yes we all have opinions, but look at the facts. Peter Windsor called it on Speedvision just like I did hours earlier here in a previous post (NOT bragging, just reiterating!) - This is a business, and Michelin flat out didn't do their homework. Yeah, it's hard. Deal with it! F1 isn't for Girlscouts, it's for professional suppliers with thousands of engineers doing their homework, with results being seen by how many millions? AFTER Michelin's original FU the FIA could have at least helped to put on a show. This is only my 2nd time missing an Indy GP, glad I did!! I'd be seriously pissed if I paid for flight, hotel, tickets, :mad:
[/QUOTE]
This is 100% incorrect. Yes we all have opinions, but look at the facts. Peter Windsor called it on Speedvision just like I did hours earlier here in a previous post (NOT bragging, just reiterating!) - This is a business, and Michelin flat out didn't do their homework. Yeah, it's hard. Deal with it! F1 isn't for Girlscouts, it's for professional suppliers with thousands of engineers doing their homework, with results being seen by how many millions? AFTER Michelin's original FU the FIA could have at least helped to put on a show. This is only my 2nd time missing an Indy GP, glad I did!! I'd be seriously pissed if I paid for flight, hotel, tickets, :mad:
| esteve | 06-19-2005 11:25 PM |
[QUOTE=REX8]Indy runs Firestones (Bridgestone company), when INDY testing cancelled due to tire failure earlier this year, speculation is they got on the phone with Bridgestone to tell them about the problems...[/QUOTE]
But I'm sure this was no secret to Michelin, they had to have known about the problems too.
But I'm sure this was no secret to Michelin, they had to have known about the problems too.
| WRSport | 06-19-2005 11:25 PM |
I think todays disaster invloves so many failures its not simply one group to blame.
Michelin ****ed up.
Michelin Teams ****ed up for not taking ANY responsibility.
ALL F1 teams ****ed up if they really did pass on showing up for a f1 test day at Indy which was available to them.
FIA/Mosley/Bernie ****ed up for not compromising somehow to still put on a show.
Michelin ****ed up.
Michelin Teams ****ed up for not taking ANY responsibility.
ALL F1 teams ****ed up if they really did pass on showing up for a f1 test day at Indy which was available to them.
FIA/Mosley/Bernie ****ed up for not compromising somehow to still put on a show.
| polaris | 06-19-2005 11:25 PM |
There were 2 failures, and about a dozen tires that were about to fail apparently throughout the weekend. This is why a lot of laps were not put in by most of the drivers.
At the Indy 500, there were 10 failures on the firestone/bridgestone tires. Bridgestone STILL couldnt make a competitive tire, as the F1 teams ran on a conservative tire. Michelin is totally to blame for not getting some sort of workable solution, but the FIA is totallly responsible for disapointing the 150,000 fans at the track and all the ones watching what has been a great F1 season thus far.
At the Indy 500, there were 10 failures on the firestone/bridgestone tires. Bridgestone STILL couldnt make a competitive tire, as the F1 teams ran on a conservative tire. Michelin is totally to blame for not getting some sort of workable solution, but the FIA is totallly responsible for disapointing the 150,000 fans at the track and all the ones watching what has been a great F1 season thus far.
| Dussander | 06-19-2005 11:25 PM |
Wait...I'm confused... why aren't we arguing about something related to Montoya?... :)
my 2 drunken' cents: I blame the FIA who made the crappy rules. Yes, Michelin brought tires that didn't work, but that stuff is common in racing. That should not lead to forcing all Michelin drivers to not compete for safety reasons, and thus screw over all the people wanting to watch a real race. (so, I agree with John)
my 2 drunken' cents: I blame the FIA who made the crappy rules. Yes, Michelin brought tires that didn't work, but that stuff is common in racing. That should not lead to forcing all Michelin drivers to not compete for safety reasons, and thus screw over all the people wanting to watch a real race. (so, I agree with John)
| Max | 06-19-2005 11:27 PM |
[QUOTE=StuBeck]Umm, okay?
I didn't know Minardi was limited to 100mph on the straights either.
And yes, champions have fear, otherwise they would crash a lot more because they wouldn't be scared about hitting the wall.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=REX8]Are you serious? A Minardi's pace is at least on same relative level to the other cars, we're talkign about cornering potentially 1/2 the speed of other cars...Minardi's are down about 5-10%...[/QUOTE]
ok you guys are right, minardis aren't that slow, but maybe the michelin runners could have been fast enough to safely run with the rest of the field. i still liked the race, there was a lot of drama and it made good water cooler talk. i was hoping that coulthard or someone would contradict team orders and pull into their grid position but i guess they would risk losing their very valuable F1 ride. although they would have become a fan favorite and a media darling for daring to race when no one else would.
I didn't know Minardi was limited to 100mph on the straights either.
And yes, champions have fear, otherwise they would crash a lot more because they wouldn't be scared about hitting the wall.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=REX8]Are you serious? A Minardi's pace is at least on same relative level to the other cars, we're talkign about cornering potentially 1/2 the speed of other cars...Minardi's are down about 5-10%...[/QUOTE]
ok you guys are right, minardis aren't that slow, but maybe the michelin runners could have been fast enough to safely run with the rest of the field. i still liked the race, there was a lot of drama and it made good water cooler talk. i was hoping that coulthard or someone would contradict team orders and pull into their grid position but i guess they would risk losing their very valuable F1 ride. although they would have become a fan favorite and a media darling for daring to race when no one else would.
| Dussander | 06-19-2005 11:29 PM |
[quote]Michelin Teams ****ed up for not taking ANY responsibility.[/quote]
They took responsibilty, and gave up any points in the name of safety, what more did you want?
[quote]ALL F1 teams ****ed up if they really did pass on showing up for a f1 test day at Indy which was available to them.[/quote]
It is not reasonable to fly to a different Continent to test for one track.
They took responsibilty, and gave up any points in the name of safety, what more did you want?
[quote]ALL F1 teams ****ed up if they really did pass on showing up for a f1 test day at Indy which was available to them.[/quote]
It is not reasonable to fly to a different Continent to test for one track.
| M. Hurst | 06-19-2005 11:32 PM |
6 cars or 20, what's the difference?, there's very little passing anyway.
F1 is intersting not because of close racing, but because they're so technically advanced and expensive, right? (although not technically advanced enough to bring the right tires)
Personally, I believe driving an Indy car without tire issues all the way around the big-boy track (oval) is probably more dangerous than the road course with delaminating tires!...but of course neither is as dangerous as 90mph on a rally stage :confused:
Until this happened, I'm sure most of central Indiana didn't realize there was a race this weekend, as FI allows almost no local media on the Speedway grounds. We may be ignorant hayseeds, but being worldly might have cost us $150 to see 6 cars drive around a track.
Instead of hanging around to help diffuse and manage the situation, Bernie left in his helicopter halfway through the race...what a class act, or did he have more pressing matters to tend too?...like getting T. George's $14 million check to the bank before payment is stopped?
F1 is intersting not because of close racing, but because they're so technically advanced and expensive, right? (although not technically advanced enough to bring the right tires)
Personally, I believe driving an Indy car without tire issues all the way around the big-boy track (oval) is probably more dangerous than the road course with delaminating tires!...but of course neither is as dangerous as 90mph on a rally stage :confused:
Until this happened, I'm sure most of central Indiana didn't realize there was a race this weekend, as FI allows almost no local media on the Speedway grounds. We may be ignorant hayseeds, but being worldly might have cost us $150 to see 6 cars drive around a track.
Instead of hanging around to help diffuse and manage the situation, Bernie left in his helicopter halfway through the race...what a class act, or did he have more pressing matters to tend too?...like getting T. George's $14 million check to the bank before payment is stopped?
| KAX | 06-19-2005 11:32 PM |
[QUOTE=GotHP?]This is 100% incorrect. Yes we all have opinions, but look at the facts. Peter Windsor called on Speedvision it just like I did hours earlier here in a previous post (NOT bragging, just reiterating!) - This is a business, and Michelin flat out didn't do their homework. Yeah, it's hard. Deal with it! F1 isn't for Girlscouts, it's for professional suppliers with thousands of engineers doing their homework, with results being seen by how many millions? AFTER Michelin's original FU the FIA could have at least helped to put on a show. This is only my 2nd time missing an Indy GP, glad I did!! I'd be seriously pissed if I paid for flight, hotel, tickets, :mad:[/QUOTE]
i agree you have a point, but like you just said, everyone has opinions and what you just quoted was Peters opinion. Nothing against him or you, but feasability has alot to do with this. With 3 days to prepare for a race how much homework can they do? Bridgestone had this figured out the day after the Indy 500, Michelin didnt stand a chance. When you come off one race in Canada, have 3 days to ship everything to a different country (i know its not far but still a hassle) and get up to par, its hard to test that much. Theres not much you can do to test the surface other than run a car, and all their drivers were just coming off of a race weekend and were still in transit and got their tests in on the free practice, which was all the homewok michelin could do, and gave the teams their data and it didnt turn out the way it was thought to. Michelin did everything they could.
i agree you have a point, but like you just said, everyone has opinions and what you just quoted was Peters opinion. Nothing against him or you, but feasability has alot to do with this. With 3 days to prepare for a race how much homework can they do? Bridgestone had this figured out the day after the Indy 500, Michelin didnt stand a chance. When you come off one race in Canada, have 3 days to ship everything to a different country (i know its not far but still a hassle) and get up to par, its hard to test that much. Theres not much you can do to test the surface other than run a car, and all their drivers were just coming off of a race weekend and were still in transit and got their tests in on the free practice, which was all the homewok michelin could do, and gave the teams their data and it didnt turn out the way it was thought to. Michelin did everything they could.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 11:35 PM |
[QUOTE=M. Hurst]or did he have more pressing matters to tend too?...like getting T. George's $14 million check to the bank before payment is stopped?[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
| esteve | 06-19-2005 11:44 PM |
[QUOTE=WRSport]I think todays disaster invloves so many failures its not simply one group to blame.
[/QUOTE]
I agree that several factors combined together to cause this fiasco, but IMO Michelin was the main culprit.
Take airline disasters for example, it's always a series of errors and/or bad events that together cause it. One or two mistakes alone isn't enough to cause a disaster, it's a chain of events.
[/QUOTE]
I agree that several factors combined together to cause this fiasco, but IMO Michelin was the main culprit.
Take airline disasters for example, it's always a series of errors and/or bad events that together cause it. One or two mistakes alone isn't enough to cause a disaster, it's a chain of events.
| REX8 | 06-19-2005 11:48 PM |
[QUOTE=esteve]I agree that several factors combined together to cause this fiasco, but IMO Michelin was the main culprit.
Take airline disasters for example, it's always a series of errors and/or bad events that together cause it. One or two mistakes alone isn't enough to cause a disaster, it's a chain of events.[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows Michelin is responsible...that doesn't negate the fact that the FIA could have helped the situation and not have ruined a huge event...
Take airline disasters for example, it's always a series of errors and/or bad events that together cause it. One or two mistakes alone isn't enough to cause a disaster, it's a chain of events.[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows Michelin is responsible...that doesn't negate the fact that the FIA could have helped the situation and not have ruined a huge event...
| Max | 06-19-2005 11:50 PM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS]hey, i wouldnt call everything perfect when ralf schumacher crashed on turn 13 at like 190mph during practice and could have been really hurt (he had minor injuries) I seriously do not get you point... so you are calling those drivers pansies? why dont you go 190+ mph on a banked turn when your tires could go out anytime... you are so stupid, youre comments dont make any sense... wow
[/QUOTE]
Ok Palomino, take my hand and I will walk you through the points system. 7th and 8th place finishers would have scored points. Conceivably, two more drivers could have gone 35 mph on the banking, been lapped 50 times and still scored points! And peep this, Michelin ok'd the tires contingent upon a chicane prior to the banked turn, they still would've been taking that turn at 100+ mph. So if two drivers voluntarily limited their speed on the banked corner to 125 they would've finsihed the race in the points. Ok so do you understand now? Who's your daddy?
[/QUOTE]
Ok Palomino, take my hand and I will walk you through the points system. 7th and 8th place finishers would have scored points. Conceivably, two more drivers could have gone 35 mph on the banking, been lapped 50 times and still scored points! And peep this, Michelin ok'd the tires contingent upon a chicane prior to the banked turn, they still would've been taking that turn at 100+ mph. So if two drivers voluntarily limited their speed on the banked corner to 125 they would've finsihed the race in the points. Ok so do you understand now? Who's your daddy?
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