| johnfelstead | 09-10-2002 07:32 AM |
Video lap of the Nurburgring, STi5 TypeRA Style
Hi Guys,
As promised, here is a full lap of the Nurburgring in my STi5 TypeRA V-Ltd from a few weeks ago. I have one of the quicker bike riders onboard with me, bit of a nutter, he rides an R7 round the ring.
The lap is an 8:37 BTG time, not my quickest of the weekend, but its more entertaining. ;)
Many thanks to Casey for hosting the footage.
Enjoy
John
Right Click- Save Target As- beware, it's HUGE at 80Mb
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARing2Sept2002.mpg]Video of a full lap of the Nurburgring[/URL]
Edited to add some of the videos that apear later in the thread.
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARing1July2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARing1July2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingFrontBumperSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingFrontBumperSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingrearviewSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingrearviewSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingRoofSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingRoofSept2002[/URL]
You can also now purchase the DVD "On Track Nurburgring", details are available in the Vendors area under the Vendor 'For Sale' Classifieds / Accessories & Misc section. :)
As promised, here is a full lap of the Nurburgring in my STi5 TypeRA V-Ltd from a few weeks ago. I have one of the quicker bike riders onboard with me, bit of a nutter, he rides an R7 round the ring.
The lap is an 8:37 BTG time, not my quickest of the weekend, but its more entertaining. ;)
Many thanks to Casey for hosting the footage.
Enjoy
John
Right Click- Save Target As- beware, it's HUGE at 80Mb
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARing2Sept2002.mpg]Video of a full lap of the Nurburgring[/URL]
Edited to add some of the videos that apear later in the thread.
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARing1July2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARing1July2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingFrontBumperSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingFrontBumperSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingrearviewSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingrearviewSept2002[/URL]
[URL=http://www.purelyhip.com/i-club/STi5TypeRARingRoofSept2002.mpg]STi5TypeRARingRoofSept2002[/URL]
You can also now purchase the DVD "On Track Nurburgring", details are available in the Vendors area under the Vendor 'For Sale' Classifieds / Accessories & Misc section. :)
| peepshow | 09-10-2002 08:49 AM |
John, looks like great fun! Thanks for posting it!
What exhaust is on the car, stock Type RA V-Limited or other? It sounds great! Enjoying the new motor, eh?;)
- Trent
What exhaust is on the car, stock Type RA V-Limited or other? It sounds great! Enjoying the new motor, eh?;)
- Trent
| Brett555 | 09-10-2002 08:51 AM |
Gotta love cable modems! Great video! I need to get over there someday to drive the Nurburgring, its on my list...along with Spa.
Just curious, what does it cost for a day at the ring...and what are the basic rules. Its kind of wild to see you out there with motorcycles...that just isn't allowed here in the States. Also, it looks like you can pass pretty much anywhere you want, with no point bys (unless I missed them). Here in the U.S., the rules are a lot more strict, atleast at the driving events I've been to.
PS - my only suggestion would be to raise your camera about 1-2 inches. It might make provide a better view. Great stuff just the way it is though ;)
Just curious, what does it cost for a day at the ring...and what are the basic rules. Its kind of wild to see you out there with motorcycles...that just isn't allowed here in the States. Also, it looks like you can pass pretty much anywhere you want, with no point bys (unless I missed them). Here in the U.S., the rules are a lot more strict, atleast at the driving events I've been to.
PS - my only suggestion would be to raise your camera about 1-2 inches. It might make provide a better view. Great stuff just the way it is though ;)
| johnfelstead | 09-10-2002 09:06 AM |
Thanks, yep, the car is a cracker. I am back there in 2 weeks too. :D
The exhaust is standard STi5 downpipe (still got the cat) and centre resonator mated to a scoobymania prototype stainless backbox, 3" diameter straight through with a very small amount of silencer section. It is much lighter than stock. I found it a bit too loud at first, but am getting used to it now, it sounds awesome on full throttle. Funny thing is, once above 100MPH it gets much quieter in the cabin as you leave the sound waves behind. :lol:
The camera stand was a last minute lashup as my proper suction mount didnt materialise on time, It's a bungee cord and cheepo tripod special.
The exhaust is standard STi5 downpipe (still got the cat) and centre resonator mated to a scoobymania prototype stainless backbox, 3" diameter straight through with a very small amount of silencer section. It is much lighter than stock. I found it a bit too loud at first, but am getting used to it now, it sounds awesome on full throttle. Funny thing is, once above 100MPH it gets much quieter in the cabin as you leave the sound waves behind. :lol:
The camera stand was a last minute lashup as my proper suction mount didnt materialise on time, It's a bungee cord and cheepo tripod special.
| johnfelstead | 09-10-2002 09:11 AM |
If you are going for a one off visit then you need to buy a 1, 6 or 12 lap ticket for the toll booth. It costs about $12 a lap. I have a season ticket so dont have to pay for the individual laps.
The ring is a public road, not a closed race track, so you have the same traffic laws aplying as a normal road in Germany, i.e. you should pass on the left and it is the person you are passings responsibility to move right and indicate! I love driving in Germany!!
The ring is a public road, not a closed race track, so you have the same traffic laws aplying as a normal road in Germany, i.e. you should pass on the left and it is the person you are passings responsibility to move right and indicate! I love driving in Germany!!
| shinylugnuts | 09-10-2002 11:28 AM |
My first posting!
Unfortunately it's bad news. My Linux system didn't like the video...sob. The first 10 seconds looked great though.:(
Unfortunately it's bad news. My Linux system didn't like the video...sob. The first 10 seconds looked great though.:(
| grandpa rex | 09-10-2002 02:35 PM |
Thank you, John.
| Craig W | 09-10-2002 04:30 PM |
Cool stuff. I just wish the camera was mounted a little higher. A lot of the time you can't see the road. I guess you'll just have to do it again. :D
| grumbly | 09-10-2002 07:45 PM |
John what tires were you running? Were they getting greasy towards the end? I couldn't quite tell from the video but it seem like you were getting a lot more oversteer at turn in towards the end of the video or was that just you trying to catch that bike ;)
| johnfelstead | 09-10-2002 07:58 PM |
Very perceptive grumbly! :D
At about 2/3 of the lap my shocks are starting to overheat. Thats the problem of using the STi standard shocks, they just cant hack a fast bumpy track, by the end of the lap the rear in particular has very little damping, this is adding to the oversteer and making the car less precise, so i am having to work a lot harder. Add to this the tyres i use, Bridgestone SO2PP, which are quite soft, those too are going off about 2/3rds of the lap so the car is sliding a lot more than at the start.
Plans are afoot to replace the shocks with some decent spec units that will be capable of lasting for a lot longer without heat issues. Tyres, the ones i have now will probably only last one more trip, so i may look at running some R rated tyres that will be more track oriented. Those two changes plus having my gearbox rebuilt (4th gear syncro is shot which is why my 4th gear downchanges are slow) should knock 20 seconds off at least, which will allow me to beat the fastest lap time for an Impreza round there.
Times all secondary though, i go for the enjoyment of driving and the social side of nurburg, which is always great fun.
At about 2/3 of the lap my shocks are starting to overheat. Thats the problem of using the STi standard shocks, they just cant hack a fast bumpy track, by the end of the lap the rear in particular has very little damping, this is adding to the oversteer and making the car less precise, so i am having to work a lot harder. Add to this the tyres i use, Bridgestone SO2PP, which are quite soft, those too are going off about 2/3rds of the lap so the car is sliding a lot more than at the start.
Plans are afoot to replace the shocks with some decent spec units that will be capable of lasting for a lot longer without heat issues. Tyres, the ones i have now will probably only last one more trip, so i may look at running some R rated tyres that will be more track oriented. Those two changes plus having my gearbox rebuilt (4th gear syncro is shot which is why my 4th gear downchanges are slow) should knock 20 seconds off at least, which will allow me to beat the fastest lap time for an Impreza round there.
Times all secondary though, i go for the enjoyment of driving and the social side of nurburg, which is always great fun.
| johnfelstead | 09-10-2002 08:02 PM |
I will have another video up soon, check back here, this gives a much better view of the track. It's from my July trip and shows you the way they modify the track when a GP race is on at the modern circuit. They basically make a bypass road at T13 which adds a lot of time to the lap. This is to allow T13 to be used as an access road.
| seanm | 09-11-2002 01:46 AM |
Thanks for a great post John.
Sean
Sean
| skuttledude | 09-11-2002 08:44 AM |
Great stuff John
As always, we appreciate your posts and insight about the mighty Ring' course. Wonderful video and we sure look forward to anything you have in the future.
Cheers,
Davis
Cheers,
Davis
| meebs | 09-11-2002 09:29 PM |
[quote]I will have another video up soon, check back here, this gives a much better view of the track. It's from my July trip and shows you the way they modify the track when a GP race is on at the modern circuit. They basically make a bypass road at T13 which adds a lot of time to the lap. This is to allow T13 to be used as an access road.
[/quote]
Thanks for the first vid, looking forward to the second!
[/quote]
Thanks for the first vid, looking forward to the second!
| philioWRXman | 09-12-2002 12:35 AM |
Quotes John "Yea, Phil, you can have my car free of charge."
so when am I getting it, sucka!??!
so when am I getting it, sucka!??!
| tifosi77 | 09-12-2002 12:46 AM |
John could you please mount the camera a little higher so we can get a slightly better view of the road in fornt of you? Just making a small request it looks like a lot of fun i envy you.
Cheers
Jeff
Cheers
Jeff
| johnfelstead | 09-12-2002 06:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]
The camera stand was a last minute lashup as my proper suction mount didnt materialise on time, It's a bungee cord and cheepo tripod special. [/B][/QUOTE]
quoting myself!!!!!!! :lol:
I am going again next week and taking some bullit cams, so will put together a video of some external shots of the wheels, track from the front spoiler, stuff like that. It should be fun.
OK, here is another lap from my July trip, this is the first time i drove my STi at the ring, so it's a little bit slower. It also has the detour at T13 for the GP track, so laptimes mean nothing.
[URL=http://208.184.121.11/i-club/STi5TypeRARing1July2002.mpg]another lap of the nurburgring[/URL]
[B]
The camera stand was a last minute lashup as my proper suction mount didnt materialise on time, It's a bungee cord and cheepo tripod special. [/B][/QUOTE]
quoting myself!!!!!!! :lol:
I am going again next week and taking some bullit cams, so will put together a video of some external shots of the wheels, track from the front spoiler, stuff like that. It should be fun.
OK, here is another lap from my July trip, this is the first time i drove my STi at the ring, so it's a little bit slower. It also has the detour at T13 for the GP track, so laptimes mean nothing.
[URL=http://208.184.121.11/i-club/STi5TypeRARing1July2002.mpg]another lap of the nurburgring[/URL]
| RyanC | 09-12-2002 10:42 AM |
John, very impressive! I'm amazed at how smooth you are thru the track; if it wasn't for the trees flying by one would think you were going pretty slow :D
| johnfelstead | 09-12-2002 11:37 AM |
Thanks, i do tend to try and be smooth on tarmac, that's where the speed comes from. Your right, it does look slower than it is, cameras always do that anyway.
I have my new suspension ariving tomorrow and some new grooved 330mm disks, so it should be a lot quicker and more stable next time.
Anyone lapping under 10 minutes is not hanging about on that track. The fastest lap for a Subaru round there on a public day is by Phil Gardner who has been an instructor there for 10 years, i need to find 20 seconds to beat that, should be interesting how close i get after the changes. He drives an STi5 too.
I have my new suspension ariving tomorrow and some new grooved 330mm disks, so it should be a lot quicker and more stable next time.
Anyone lapping under 10 minutes is not hanging about on that track. The fastest lap for a Subaru round there on a public day is by Phil Gardner who has been an instructor there for 10 years, i need to find 20 seconds to beat that, should be interesting how close i get after the changes. He drives an STi5 too.
| grumbly | 09-12-2002 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]At about 2/3 of the lap my shocks are starting to overheat. Thats the problem of using the STi standard shocks, they just cant hack a fast bumpy track, by the end of the lap the rear in particular has very little damping, this is adding to the oversteer and making the car less precise, so i am having to work a lot harder. Add to this the tyres i use, Bridgestone SO2PP, which are quite soft, those too are going off about 2/3rds of the lap so the car is sliding a lot more than at the start.
[/B][/QUOTE]
You know you mention oversteer towards the end but what about the normal WRX understeer? How neutral is the car in "normal" track driving? Or for that matter how do you even tune for Nurburgring?
While there is a bunch of open track knowledge running around on this side of the pond the general track setup knowledge/formula isnt as deep. Gary and a few other are blazing the way for us but its always interesting to get tuning perspective from parts with a little more history with the WRX.
-Chris
[B]At about 2/3 of the lap my shocks are starting to overheat. Thats the problem of using the STi standard shocks, they just cant hack a fast bumpy track, by the end of the lap the rear in particular has very little damping, this is adding to the oversteer and making the car less precise, so i am having to work a lot harder. Add to this the tyres i use, Bridgestone SO2PP, which are quite soft, those too are going off about 2/3rds of the lap so the car is sliding a lot more than at the start.
[/B][/QUOTE]
You know you mention oversteer towards the end but what about the normal WRX understeer? How neutral is the car in "normal" track driving? Or for that matter how do you even tune for Nurburgring?
While there is a bunch of open track knowledge running around on this side of the pond the general track setup knowledge/formula isnt as deep. Gary and a few other are blazing the way for us but its always interesting to get tuning perspective from parts with a little more history with the WRX.
-Chris
| RyanC | 09-12-2002 01:33 PM |
Ugh, I guess my 12 minute laps are pretty weak then... I'm lame! :D
So is it my eyes or are you catching air at Pflanzgarten? It looks like you take off in a couple of other spots, too... I must make a trek out there next year and go for a ride with you; I think 3 or 4 valium first will put me in the proper mood heheh.
Ryan
not as fast as he thought
So is it my eyes or are you catching air at Pflanzgarten? It looks like you take off in a couple of other spots, too... I must make a trek out there next year and go for a ride with you; I think 3 or 4 valium first will put me in the proper mood heheh.
Ryan
not as fast as he thought
| johnfelstead | 09-12-2002 03:50 PM |
The car gets quite airborn at Pflanzgarten1 in particular, it feels fine in the car but looks pretty impresive from outside i am told. You can catch air at Pflanzgarten2, but i am just about unloading the wheels rather than jumping there at the moment, because its a sideways landing and my shocks arent in a safe state to play like that, they will be next trip though.
The other places you tend to get very light are the crest just before schwedencrauz, i am doing close on 150MPH there. I used to brake before the crest, now its flat for another 50 yards after it. You also get airborn at Quiddelbacher hohe if you cary enough speed from the exit of hocheichen.
Impreza's can be made to handle very neutrally, they just need setting up properly. Factory settings suck.
The GC8 model suffers more than the WRX from front bump steer, the WRX is pretty damn good actually. First port of call is dial out the bumpsteer, this reduces the tendency to understeer and helps with hard braking stability and initial corner entry turnin. The way you do this is to shim the steering rack down until the effect of bumb doesnt alter the steering of the wheel. It usually takes between 3mm-5mm to achieve this. It has to be set per car due to manufacturing tolerences.
Next you need more static camber than stock, for a very track oriented setup you need 2.5 degrees negative front camber, if it's your road car, dont go above 1.5 degrees or you will eat your tyres quickly. Rear camber isnt usually adjustable, but you should have around 1.2 degrees negative.
Front and rear toe settings alter the stability and handling balance on these cars quite a lot too. For a neutral setup you are looking for 2 minutes toe in either side on the rear and 4 minutes either side front. It also helps if you increase the static front caster by installing an anti lift kit.
Finally, wheel offset affects the Subaru handling significantly. I am running ET45 which makes the car very darty, a nicer road offset is ET50-52 but you get more instant response from ET45.
My car is an STi5 typeRA, this gives me a quickrack, which makes driving quickly much easier, through the whole lap i never have to take my hand off the wheel or cross hands. I also have the mechanical, rather than viscous limited slip diffs in the front/centre and rear, these are much better on track than viscous units. I also have the adjustable centre diff, in the dry i run that fully open so the torque split is 65R/35F with no locking, in the wet i will wind the bias to more like 55R/45F with a lot of front/rear locking. You really can alter the way the car handles with the centre diff.
Tyre presures affect handling a great deal too, i tend to run 40PSI front and 39PSI rear hot presures. Always set your tyre pressures when they are hot, you will be amazed how they climb as the tyre heats up.
You then of course have your damper settings, should you have adjustable units. Dont go too hard on these, a bouncy stiff car is slow, you want the suspension to work, you dont want a solid piece of metal as a damper!! Bumpy roads need more complient suspension, smooth tracks need less complience, the ring is very fast and very bumpy, so a good UK track setup will be a nightmare there, you need a good B road tyre setup really.
Hope this helps a bit.
The other places you tend to get very light are the crest just before schwedencrauz, i am doing close on 150MPH there. I used to brake before the crest, now its flat for another 50 yards after it. You also get airborn at Quiddelbacher hohe if you cary enough speed from the exit of hocheichen.
Impreza's can be made to handle very neutrally, they just need setting up properly. Factory settings suck.
The GC8 model suffers more than the WRX from front bump steer, the WRX is pretty damn good actually. First port of call is dial out the bumpsteer, this reduces the tendency to understeer and helps with hard braking stability and initial corner entry turnin. The way you do this is to shim the steering rack down until the effect of bumb doesnt alter the steering of the wheel. It usually takes between 3mm-5mm to achieve this. It has to be set per car due to manufacturing tolerences.
Next you need more static camber than stock, for a very track oriented setup you need 2.5 degrees negative front camber, if it's your road car, dont go above 1.5 degrees or you will eat your tyres quickly. Rear camber isnt usually adjustable, but you should have around 1.2 degrees negative.
Front and rear toe settings alter the stability and handling balance on these cars quite a lot too. For a neutral setup you are looking for 2 minutes toe in either side on the rear and 4 minutes either side front. It also helps if you increase the static front caster by installing an anti lift kit.
Finally, wheel offset affects the Subaru handling significantly. I am running ET45 which makes the car very darty, a nicer road offset is ET50-52 but you get more instant response from ET45.
My car is an STi5 typeRA, this gives me a quickrack, which makes driving quickly much easier, through the whole lap i never have to take my hand off the wheel or cross hands. I also have the mechanical, rather than viscous limited slip diffs in the front/centre and rear, these are much better on track than viscous units. I also have the adjustable centre diff, in the dry i run that fully open so the torque split is 65R/35F with no locking, in the wet i will wind the bias to more like 55R/45F with a lot of front/rear locking. You really can alter the way the car handles with the centre diff.
Tyre presures affect handling a great deal too, i tend to run 40PSI front and 39PSI rear hot presures. Always set your tyre pressures when they are hot, you will be amazed how they climb as the tyre heats up.
You then of course have your damper settings, should you have adjustable units. Dont go too hard on these, a bouncy stiff car is slow, you want the suspension to work, you dont want a solid piece of metal as a damper!! Bumpy roads need more complient suspension, smooth tracks need less complience, the ring is very fast and very bumpy, so a good UK track setup will be a nightmare there, you need a good B road tyre setup really.
Hope this helps a bit.
| grumbly | 09-12-2002 05:47 PM |
Agreed on the factory settings suckage but then that's true for just about any car from the factory over here.
I find it interesting that you go with so much toe both front and rear. Is that your track setting or your normal daily driving setup? The current consensus around here is 0 toe all around for daily driving with a bit added in for auto-x or more track dedicated cars.
[QUOTE]I am running ET45 which makes the car very darty, a nicer road offset is ET50-52 but you get more instant response from ET45.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly sure what you mean here. What is "ET" besides and 80's movie?
[QUOTE] Bumpy roads need more complient suspension, smooth tracks need less complience, the ring is very fast and very bumpy, so a good UK track setup will be a nightmare there, you need a good B road tyre setup really. [/QUOTE]
Hah! You should try a few laps on Pacific Raceway. The Ring looks like a pool table compared to it.
I find it interesting that you go with so much toe both front and rear. Is that your track setting or your normal daily driving setup? The current consensus around here is 0 toe all around for daily driving with a bit added in for auto-x or more track dedicated cars.
[QUOTE]I am running ET45 which makes the car very darty, a nicer road offset is ET50-52 but you get more instant response from ET45.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly sure what you mean here. What is "ET" besides and 80's movie?
[QUOTE] Bumpy roads need more complient suspension, smooth tracks need less complience, the ring is very fast and very bumpy, so a good UK track setup will be a nightmare there, you need a good B road tyre setup really. [/QUOTE]
Hah! You should try a few laps on Pacific Raceway. The Ring looks like a pool table compared to it.
| chiraoka | 09-12-2002 07:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Thanks, i do tend to try and be smooth on tarmac, that's where the speed comes from. Your right, it does look slower than it is, cameras always do that anyway.
I have my new suspension ariving tomorrow and some new grooved 330mm disks, so it should be a lot quicker and more stable next time. [/B][/QUOTE]
John what suspension will u be using ?
[B]Thanks, i do tend to try and be smooth on tarmac, that's where the speed comes from. Your right, it does look slower than it is, cameras always do that anyway.
I have my new suspension ariving tomorrow and some new grooved 330mm disks, so it should be a lot quicker and more stable next time. [/B][/QUOTE]
John what suspension will u be using ?
| johnfelstead | 09-13-2002 06:23 AM |
I am using some Leda B valved for fast road/bumpy track with spring rates about 30% up on my TypeRA springs. I originaly was thinking about using non adjustable proflex valved for me using a bumpy tarmac setup but decided against that as it didnt allow me to change the balance quickly or compensate for wet weather.
Ideally i would go for some adjustable proflex or DMS 50mm stuff but the cost is tripple/double and i am not going nuts on spending, this is my road car and not a race car after all.
I know this suspension setup works well at the ring as thats what is on the car that has set the fastest lap to date, so its less of a gamble also.
Those settings are for my car perminantly, i use it as my daily driver. Having zero toe front/rear isnt a good idea IMHO as it makes the car wander and isnt as stable under braking. If you run zero rear toe you introduce rear end instability. Having more rear toe on the Impreza increases its tendency to power oversteer too, if you want it to be very oversteery you could run as much as 10 minutes toe in on the rear per side.
ET is the offset of the wheel, its the amount the wheel sits inboard of the centre line of the hub. Every car has diferent suspension geometries and needs diferent wheel offset's to place the wheel in the correct position. RWD and FWD/AWD cars use very diferent offset values normally. My westfield used ET13 for example. Standard offset is ET52, prodrive tend to try and stay within a few millimeteres of this, though on the STi 18" wheels they have gone more towards ET45. The car sufers more from torque steer and straight line instability using ET45 but the response is much improved, it's a bit of a trade off, the car is harder to drive on a bumpy road, but it does what you want more instantaneously.
Ideally i would go for some adjustable proflex or DMS 50mm stuff but the cost is tripple/double and i am not going nuts on spending, this is my road car and not a race car after all.
I know this suspension setup works well at the ring as thats what is on the car that has set the fastest lap to date, so its less of a gamble also.
Those settings are for my car perminantly, i use it as my daily driver. Having zero toe front/rear isnt a good idea IMHO as it makes the car wander and isnt as stable under braking. If you run zero rear toe you introduce rear end instability. Having more rear toe on the Impreza increases its tendency to power oversteer too, if you want it to be very oversteery you could run as much as 10 minutes toe in on the rear per side.
ET is the offset of the wheel, its the amount the wheel sits inboard of the centre line of the hub. Every car has diferent suspension geometries and needs diferent wheel offset's to place the wheel in the correct position. RWD and FWD/AWD cars use very diferent offset values normally. My westfield used ET13 for example. Standard offset is ET52, prodrive tend to try and stay within a few millimeteres of this, though on the STi 18" wheels they have gone more towards ET45. The car sufers more from torque steer and straight line instability using ET45 but the response is much improved, it's a bit of a trade off, the car is harder to drive on a bumpy road, but it does what you want more instantaneously.
| grumbly | 09-13-2002 02:12 PM |
It seems we just have a mix of terminology. I have only heard of it as "hub offset" or even just "offset".
Alignments settings are always interesting. After about 1000 miles I have not had any problems with wandering with 0 toe and it works for me as a nice mild auto-x tune. I'll keep you input in mind next time I get it done. How is your setup on tire wear?
Alignments settings are always interesting. After about 1000 miles I have not had any problems with wandering with 0 toe and it works for me as a nice mild auto-x tune. I'll keep you input in mind next time I get it done. How is your setup on tire wear?
| johnfelstead | 09-16-2002 05:14 PM |
tyre wear is too early to say, nothing noticable on my road set, my track set wear out very quickly! I cant think why? :lol:
[IMG]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/STi5/tyreouch.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.btinternet.com/~john.felstead/STi5/tyreouch.JPG[/IMG]
| ellisnc | 09-16-2002 09:15 PM |
John, just wondering, were you heel toeing in those movies? The reason I ask is it doesn't seem like it and if you weren't why?
Seems like the revs would drop a lot and you'd downshift pretty late and when you'd come on the gas the revs would rise very rapidly almost as you were bringing the engine up to speed and then releasing the clutch when you were ready to exit the corner?
Just like some comentary on the driving because what it looks like you were doing doesn't match what happens when I enter and exit a corner. I know you're a very experienced driver so that's why I'm curious...???
Seems like the revs would drop a lot and you'd downshift pretty late and when you'd come on the gas the revs would rise very rapidly almost as you were bringing the engine up to speed and then releasing the clutch when you were ready to exit the corner?
Just like some comentary on the driving because what it looks like you were doing doesn't match what happens when I enter and exit a corner. I know you're a very experienced driver so that's why I'm curious...???
| johnfelstead | 09-17-2002 07:06 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]Seems like the revs would drop a lot and you'd downshift pretty late and when you'd come on the gas the revs would rise very rapidly almost as you were bringing the engine up to speed and then releasing the clutch when you were ready to exit the corner?
[/B][/QUOTE]
What you are seeing is a combination of very strong brakes, a strange gearbox ratio split and a totally knackered 4th gear syncro. :lol:
I most definately dont do what your saying re releasing the clutch at exit, the car is always in gear and being driven on throttle in the corners. There are a few corners where i am missing a downshift, because getting the car from 5th to 4th is very dificult, especially when braking hard, due to the syncro issue combined with a big ratio drop, so you arent seeing a nice blip blip type afair. The speed doesnt show well on the video, but in places i am braking from 150MPH to 70MPH whilst doing a very slow shift. You should be able to see when i go up from 4th to 5th the engine drops its revs hugely, this is a feature of the V-Ltd gearbox which makes it a great road box, but not very good on track. 4th gear is 13MPH/1000rpm, 5th is 22MPH/1000rpm, a huge ratio jump. I am going to change this so i have the conventional TypeRA 5th, as it's making the car very hard to drive on track and i dont really need a 180MPH top speed. :D
I am actually driving a not very well setup car there, the brake disks are warped to hell, the box is goosed and the suspension is shot, i also have a rumbly rear wheel bearing. :lol:
I installed new AP disks on sunday, new coilovers are going on this thursday, the wheel bearing is being changed now, sadly the box isnt being done as i hoped this week, so i will still have that to contend with when i go to nurburg this weekend. The car should be a lot better though, so i expect lap times to drop by at least 15 seconds. The footage should be excellent too with the camera system i have just got hold of.
Please dont drive with the car out of gear in the corners, you will crash. :lol:
P.S not sure if you can see it, but the engine revs to 8000rpm, and spins up much quicker than a UK/US spec WRX.
[B]Seems like the revs would drop a lot and you'd downshift pretty late and when you'd come on the gas the revs would rise very rapidly almost as you were bringing the engine up to speed and then releasing the clutch when you were ready to exit the corner?
[/B][/QUOTE]
What you are seeing is a combination of very strong brakes, a strange gearbox ratio split and a totally knackered 4th gear syncro. :lol:
I most definately dont do what your saying re releasing the clutch at exit, the car is always in gear and being driven on throttle in the corners. There are a few corners where i am missing a downshift, because getting the car from 5th to 4th is very dificult, especially when braking hard, due to the syncro issue combined with a big ratio drop, so you arent seeing a nice blip blip type afair. The speed doesnt show well on the video, but in places i am braking from 150MPH to 70MPH whilst doing a very slow shift. You should be able to see when i go up from 4th to 5th the engine drops its revs hugely, this is a feature of the V-Ltd gearbox which makes it a great road box, but not very good on track. 4th gear is 13MPH/1000rpm, 5th is 22MPH/1000rpm, a huge ratio jump. I am going to change this so i have the conventional TypeRA 5th, as it's making the car very hard to drive on track and i dont really need a 180MPH top speed. :D
I am actually driving a not very well setup car there, the brake disks are warped to hell, the box is goosed and the suspension is shot, i also have a rumbly rear wheel bearing. :lol:
I installed new AP disks on sunday, new coilovers are going on this thursday, the wheel bearing is being changed now, sadly the box isnt being done as i hoped this week, so i will still have that to contend with when i go to nurburg this weekend. The car should be a lot better though, so i expect lap times to drop by at least 15 seconds. The footage should be excellent too with the camera system i have just got hold of.
Please dont drive with the car out of gear in the corners, you will crash. :lol:
P.S not sure if you can see it, but the engine revs to 8000rpm, and spins up much quicker than a UK/US spec WRX.
| Arnie | 09-17-2002 06:36 PM |
FYI- "ET" is German for "Einpresstiefe" , literally translated- press in depth.
Great video John. Great to see you in action. Do you have any of your rally video footage?
Great video John. Great to see you in action. Do you have any of your rally video footage?
| ellisnc | 09-17-2002 07:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]
...and spins up much quicker than a UK/US spec WRX. [/B][/QUOTE]
well that just depends on power now doesn't it... yeah of course your gearing is shorter but I'm sure there are some cars here that pull up the tach quicker than that. ;)
do you have any video in the Westie?
[B]
...and spins up much quicker than a UK/US spec WRX. [/B][/QUOTE]
well that just depends on power now doesn't it... yeah of course your gearing is shorter but I'm sure there are some cars here that pull up the tach quicker than that. ;)
do you have any video in the Westie?
| johnfelstead | 09-18-2002 04:09 AM |
i would hope there are cars over there with faster engine pickup, mine is bog standard STi5.
I did have some great footage taken from the westie's rollbar at the ring, this was used by the XBox development team at MS last year. I gave it to someone to make a pro video and they knackered it. :mad: I have some other footage but the quality is crap.
There is a full lap of the ring filmed from an R1 superbike by Joerund Siem, 8 min 10 seconds BTG time which is fairly quick.[URL=http://www.motorcycle-dk.com/en/multimedia/index.php?viewVid=53&catId=7]westie download[/URL]
We have only just started to film in the rally car so i have nothing at home right now, no doubt that will change soon.
I did have some great footage taken from the westie's rollbar at the ring, this was used by the XBox development team at MS last year. I gave it to someone to make a pro video and they knackered it. :mad: I have some other footage but the quality is crap.
There is a full lap of the ring filmed from an R1 superbike by Joerund Siem, 8 min 10 seconds BTG time which is fairly quick.[URL=http://www.motorcycle-dk.com/en/multimedia/index.php?viewVid=53&catId=7]westie download[/URL]
We have only just started to film in the rally car so i have nothing at home right now, no doubt that will change soon.
| Kha0S | 09-18-2002 01:00 PM |
John -- What setting did you run your DCCD at? DIFF FREE?
/Andrew
/Andrew
| TimStevens | 09-18-2002 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]I did have some great footage taken from the westie's rollbar at the ring, this was used by the XBox development team at MS last year. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's interesting... do you know which game it was put into? Were they trying to make a track map or get engine noises?
-tim
[B]I did have some great footage taken from the westie's rollbar at the ring, this was used by the XBox development team at MS last year. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's interesting... do you know which game it was put into? Were they trying to make a track map or get engine noises?
-tim
| johnfelstead | 09-18-2002 04:22 PM |
I always run the centre diff fully open (diff free) in the dry. I change the settings in the wet depending on conditions and what i am trying to do.
Not really sure what they used the footage for at MS, but they paid for a guy to fly over with a lot of camera equipment to strap onto our cars for the weekend and then used this in the development labs.
Not really sure what they used the footage for at MS, but they paid for a guy to fly over with a lot of camera equipment to strap onto our cars for the weekend and then used this in the development labs.
| Kha0S | 09-18-2002 04:48 PM |
Awesome, thanks John... I'll be harassing you more for details on your diff settings when I finish the Torquemada project in the next month or so.
/Andrew
/Andrew
| johnfelstead | 09-22-2002 08:36 PM |
Just got home from the ring.
Wait till you guys see the footage i got, it's absolutely awesome stuff.
I have a full lap from the front splitter, one from the rear wing, one from the roof vent, one facing back from the rear bumper and the most amazing footage i have seen that isnt profesionally produced, eye level from my helmet. :eek: You see what i see and it's a superb lap. T13 is closed again so i cant do an exact lap time, but it looks like 8 min 20secs, which is flying.
I have lots of onboard normal footage too so have lots to sort out which i'll do in the next few days.
Wait till you guys see the footage i got, it's absolutely awesome stuff.
I have a full lap from the front splitter, one from the rear wing, one from the roof vent, one facing back from the rear bumper and the most amazing footage i have seen that isnt profesionally produced, eye level from my helmet. :eek: You see what i see and it's a superb lap. T13 is closed again so i cant do an exact lap time, but it looks like 8 min 20secs, which is flying.
I have lots of onboard normal footage too so have lots to sort out which i'll do in the next few days.
| thebusiness999 | 09-23-2002 03:13 AM |
oooo, this sounds like too much fun. Can't wait to watch the next video clip you have for us.
| EJ20K | 09-23-2002 10:25 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Just got home from the ring.
Wait till you guys see the footage i got, it's absolutely awesome stuff.
I have a full lap from the front splitter, one from the rear wing, one from the roof vent, one facing back from the rear bumper and the most amazing footage i have seen that isnt profesionally produced, eye level from my helmet. :eek: You see what i see and it's a superb lap. T13 is closed again so i cant do an exact lap time, but it looks like 8 min 20secs, which is flying.
I have lots of onboard normal footage too so have lots to sort out which i'll do in the next few days. [/B][/QUOTE]
John, did u get the new Leda suspension on your car ..... :confused:
[B]Just got home from the ring.
Wait till you guys see the footage i got, it's absolutely awesome stuff.
I have a full lap from the front splitter, one from the rear wing, one from the roof vent, one facing back from the rear bumper and the most amazing footage i have seen that isnt profesionally produced, eye level from my helmet. :eek: You see what i see and it's a superb lap. T13 is closed again so i cant do an exact lap time, but it looks like 8 min 20secs, which is flying.
I have lots of onboard normal footage too so have lots to sort out which i'll do in the next few days. [/B][/QUOTE]
John, did u get the new Leda suspension on your car ..... :confused:
| johnfelstead | 09-23-2002 10:42 AM |
yep, i had that installed thursday afternoon and spent saturday morning setting that up as close as i could without having any setup gear with me. It works really well, consistent the whole lap which is what i was looking for.
I'll do a full writeup when i get more time.
I'll do a full writeup when i get more time.
| EJ20K | 09-23-2002 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]yep, i had that installed thursday afternoon and spent saturday morning setting that up as close as i could without having any setup gear with me. It works really well, consistent the whole lap which is what i was looking for.
I'll do a full writeup when i get more time. [/B][/QUOTE]
thanx John, waiting for you "famous" Ring writeup :D
[B]yep, i had that installed thursday afternoon and spent saturday morning setting that up as close as i could without having any setup gear with me. It works really well, consistent the whole lap which is what i was looking for.
I'll do a full writeup when i get more time. [/B][/QUOTE]
thanx John, waiting for you "famous" Ring writeup :D
| Arnie | 09-23-2002 12:29 PM |
John, next time out, give us some footage from the pedals. we would all like to see what your feet are doing. what would be nice is a complete montage of say 4 camera angles simultaneously. so we could see, all at the same time, the front, the rear, your feet and perhaps one that toggles between fender or splitter view. Now that would be lots of work! But would be great to see.
| johnfelstead | 09-23-2002 12:35 PM |
Jeez, give them an inch....... ;) :lol:
Just wait till you see the helmetcam footage, blows me away and i was there. :D :lol:
I had another camera running at the same time filming behind, so maybe i can do a mix of those 2.
What i would like to do is combine 5 camera angles i had and make one full lap of that lot, but its a lot of work. I can always go get some footage of my feet in action on the road, as you wont know the diference anyway! :D
I had planned on some of the suspension/brakes too, but it rained sunday so that was a non starter.
Just wait till you see the helmetcam footage, blows me away and i was there. :D :lol:
I had another camera running at the same time filming behind, so maybe i can do a mix of those 2.
What i would like to do is combine 5 camera angles i had and make one full lap of that lot, but its a lot of work. I can always go get some footage of my feet in action on the road, as you wont know the diference anyway! :D
I had planned on some of the suspension/brakes too, but it rained sunday so that was a non starter.
| EJ20K | 09-23-2002 12:36 PM |
did u have enough time to get the synchro replaced ?
| johnfelstead | 09-23-2002 12:44 PM |
nope, still having big issues there, but i have learned how to deal with that better by being more deliberate with my heal and toe on the two heavy stops where 5th to 4th was needed. I am losing time there though but most importantly it's not allowing me to feel 100% confident i will get the gear i want. There are places i would like to change up for a second then back down but i just leave it in 4th at 8000rpm.
| Arnie | 09-23-2002 01:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Jeez, give them an inch....... ;) :lol:
I can always go get some footage of my feet in action on the road, as you wont know the diference anyway! :D
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ha! You know we will be able to tell! besides I would love to see what your feet are doing when setting up for turns coming up. Copter cam is missing! It would geat to see overhead views to see you drifting it through some of the greasy corners. You could sell this one John!
Can't wait to see the other footage, it sounds great!
[B]Jeez, give them an inch....... ;) :lol:
I can always go get some footage of my feet in action on the road, as you wont know the diference anyway! :D
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ha! You know we will be able to tell! besides I would love to see what your feet are doing when setting up for turns coming up. Copter cam is missing! It would geat to see overhead views to see you drifting it through some of the greasy corners. You could sell this one John!
Can't wait to see the other footage, it sounds great!
| johnfelstead | 09-23-2002 01:09 PM |
:lol:
We talked about rigging up a big pole onto the rear of the car and mounting the camera lens on that, so you would have the rear view just like in colin McRae Rally. :lol:
The weather turned nasty though, but that is definately an idea worth persuing.
Anyone know of a good video editing software package so i can do some split screen video editing?
We talked about rigging up a big pole onto the rear of the car and mounting the camera lens on that, so you would have the rear view just like in colin McRae Rally. :lol:
The weather turned nasty though, but that is definately an idea worth persuing.
Anyone know of a good video editing software package so i can do some split screen video editing?
| Arnie | 09-23-2002 02:05 PM |
nasty weather? So can we assume you were having even more fun out there, sliding around and showboating for everyone? I bet you were the only one out there still churning out decent lap tiimes.
| ellisnc | 09-23-2002 04:56 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]:lol:
Anyone know of a good video editing software package so i can do some split screen video editing? [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah it's called i-Movie ;)
[B]:lol:
Anyone know of a good video editing software package so i can do some split screen video editing? [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah it's called i-Movie ;)
| Arnie | 09-23-2002 08:05 PM |
Final Cut Pro!
| meebs | 09-23-2002 11:21 PM |
John, have you considered making a DVD out of all this good stuff? Sounds like you are getting more and more creative with the camera work. I'm sure you could sell a few copies to wack-o's like us.
I can see it now,
interviews, behind the scenes, an interactive map of the track with commentary on each corner, photos, etc. :D
I can see it now,
interviews, behind the scenes, an interactive map of the track with commentary on each corner, photos, etc. :D
| johnfelstead | 09-24-2002 06:36 AM |
The ring in the wet isnt a place to take liberties, the track is incredibly low grip and doesnt drain well so there is a big risk of aquaplaning. I ran 3 laps with my track tyres on, which were very worn then swapped my wheels over to my normal road tyres because it was much safer. I wasnt going very quick in the wet but still quick enough for it to be fun.
Putting a DVD or video together is a lot of work, i have some good footage now that would make a good video if i got round to sorting something. I may look into that?
OK, helmetcam lap footage is now uploaded, i am uploading the same lap but viewed through the rear window, which i'll post later. Once again thanks to Casey for hosting the footage!
A few points of note, at 2:23 speed is 155MPH, Things get a bit :eek: at 4:27 :lol:
Enjoy :D
[URL=http://208.184.121.11/i-club/STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002.mpg]HelmetCam[/URL]
Putting a DVD or video together is a lot of work, i have some good footage now that would make a good video if i got round to sorting something. I may look into that?
OK, helmetcam lap footage is now uploaded, i am uploading the same lap but viewed through the rear window, which i'll post later. Once again thanks to Casey for hosting the footage!
A few points of note, at 2:23 speed is 155MPH, Things get a bit :eek: at 4:27 :lol:
Enjoy :D
[URL=http://208.184.121.11/i-club/STi5TypeRARingHelmetcamSept2002.mpg]HelmetCam[/URL]
| grandpa rex | 09-24-2002 12:41 PM |
Thank you again, John. BTW: I have now viewed three of your laps at the ring. You have blown by absolutely everything on the road, including M3's and Porsche turbos and every bike. I am genuinely impressed with your skills and hugely envious of how much fun you have. Keep the videos coming.
| EJ20K | 09-24-2002 12:55 PM |
thanx John for the video, very very impressive, but please don't forget about your writeup on the last trip ;)
| johnfelstead | 09-24-2002 02:10 PM |
Glad you enjoy the footage. When you get to be lapping sub 8:30 there is very little out there capable of keeping up, no matter what the car. A lot of driving the ring is knowing whats coming, this allows you to carry a huge amount of speed compared to a novice driving on sight.
It's a bit like comparing a rally driver on pace notes to a rally driver with no intercom, the time diference is huge when you add up all the corners you can take at high speed knowing whats coming.
If you try to keep up with someone doing 8:30's not knowing the track then you are being very foolish. It's good fun passing some of the exotica, i did one lap starting behind a Ferrari 360 Modena but got bored by 1 mile and just blasted past. :lol: It did sound gorgeous though!
I just wish i still had my westie, i would be doing 7:30's in that car now, i am sure of it. I quite fancy taking some R rated tyres just to see how quick it would be, the limit now is my tyres.
I thought this picture was nice, taken this weekend.
[IMG]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jotero/meets/nurburgring/DSC00487.JPG[/IMG]
It's a bit like comparing a rally driver on pace notes to a rally driver with no intercom, the time diference is huge when you add up all the corners you can take at high speed knowing whats coming.
If you try to keep up with someone doing 8:30's not knowing the track then you are being very foolish. It's good fun passing some of the exotica, i did one lap starting behind a Ferrari 360 Modena but got bored by 1 mile and just blasted past. :lol: It did sound gorgeous though!
I just wish i still had my westie, i would be doing 7:30's in that car now, i am sure of it. I quite fancy taking some R rated tyres just to see how quick it would be, the limit now is my tyres.
I thought this picture was nice, taken this weekend.
[IMG]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jotero/meets/nurburgring/DSC00487.JPG[/IMG]
| grandpa rex | 09-24-2002 02:55 PM |
Is that a Lotus Elise behind you?
| johnfelstead | 09-24-2002 05:41 PM |
I think so, not a very clear picture. There were quite a lot of elise's there this weekend.
| meebs | 09-24-2002 08:43 PM |
Having a problem downloading the helmet cam, had no problems with the other vids. Keeps saying, "a connection failure has occured". Doesn't even try to start to download.
Probably just a swamped FTP?
Probably just a swamped FTP?
| wrxinfx | 09-24-2002 08:45 PM |
vids temporarily unavailble
John's Nurburgring vids are temporarily off-line. The server needed an emergency rebuild - it should be back on in the next 6hrs, maybe longer. (un-paid amateurs at work!:eek: )
Sorry for the interruption!
Casey
the hoster with the most-err
Sorry for the interruption!
Casey
the hoster with the most-err
| johnfelstead | 09-25-2002 12:06 PM |
server seems to be back up again! :D
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