| solo-x | 01-31-2007 12:01 PM |
[QUOTE=Tirewarmer;16877220]1. KC has very little tact.
2. S1MPSONS is the f4stest rallyx'r evar FTMFW!
3. Camera safety straps are great for pulling the loose camera out of your skull at the hospital.
4. I heard the Barney the purple dinosaur forum is a good place for kids to boost their self esteem.
5. Modified 2WD cars are obviously faster than modified AWD cars in RallyX. It has nothing to do with the driver.
6. You don't have to know anything about the rules of the event you are competing in. Just show up and always trust the tech guys. Because you are just there for fun as a noob and don't care about results, results that you wouldn't post to an internet forum since you don't care about them anyway.
7. I have less tact and am more sarcastic than KC.[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks Joe, I needed that today!
2. S1MPSONS is the f4stest rallyx'r evar FTMFW!
3. Camera safety straps are great for pulling the loose camera out of your skull at the hospital.
4. I heard the Barney the purple dinosaur forum is a good place for kids to boost their self esteem.
5. Modified 2WD cars are obviously faster than modified AWD cars in RallyX. It has nothing to do with the driver.
6. You don't have to know anything about the rules of the event you are competing in. Just show up and always trust the tech guys. Because you are just there for fun as a noob and don't care about results, results that you wouldn't post to an internet forum since you don't care about them anyway.
7. I have less tact and am more sarcastic than KC.[/QUOTE]
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks Joe, I needed that today!
| njskatchmo | 01-31-2007 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;16877588]Apologies in advance, but I can't let this one go. (since people want to keep it going obviously anyways.)
So we're supposed to hold their hands and tell them that it's ok? That if you want to join in on ANY sport/event/function that's new to you, it's ok go do whatever you want without having done one iota of research as to how do join in and learn what you need?
Ok, fine... I'll keep that in mind.
It started out as a simple question that had a yes/no answer. Where it went from there was up to the OP. And its become kind of obvious through recent posts that those that were actually AT the event, that were asked about what class by the OP, were led astray as well.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Suddenly the responsibility to maintain an orderly event falls on our shoulders? If the organizers felt that they couldn't adequately class us they should have turned us back at the door. The fact that my car had a modified downpipe was obvious and not hidden. I made it clear the downpipe was modified and the obvious question that should have been asked would have been "are the cats intact?" Suddenly, This sport which is supposed to welcome new people, no longer welcomes us but frowns upon us for not knowing every ioda of information. The people who organized NER were very friendly and helpful. You sir, are not. You've come on to this thread to critique my friend in his moment of pride, due to a clear miscommunication. If I wanted to be missclassed I would have hidden the Swaybar too. We did not willfully deceive anyone, yes my car may have been misclassed but that responsiblity does not fall upon our shoulders. Again, I thank NER for a great experience and their hospitality, but completly disagree with the techs decision to post that he was not told it was catless. A. It was obvious with the QTP open that there should have been some question of the cat's existence and B. The responsiblity to accurately classify the car falls on the organizers, If I say modified downpipe the next question should be "are the cats retained?". In the game of basketball every player may or may not know the rules yet the ref's are there to make sure the rules are followed. This misunderstanding does not reflect poorly on me as a person or NER as organizers, it was a misunderstanding and nothing more.
Tirewarmer - Who are we to trust if not the organizers? Did you ever go to a college course stand up and start teaching the course? There is a assigned head in every organized social setting and in this one it was the techs.
KC - To say it was obvious that I lied about the mods on my car is a completly out of your capability as a dissociated on looker. You were not there, you did not speak. I spoke for the mods on my car. There was nothing I hid, I could have much more easily hid my rear sway bar. The QTP open should have been plenty of notice to the Tech's that maybe there was something to inspect about my downpipe. One single question on the part of the people whose job it was to class us would have prevented all this.
To NER - I am very upset that this whole argument occured. I felt you ran a very nicely organized and friendly event. I do not mean to blame you as organizers, the event was a great experience. We may have been missclassed but that was not as a result of any deception on my part. If I wanted to hide my mods it would have been easy to keep the QTP shut and I could have not told you of my rear sway bar.
(edit)
I never mentioned a modified exhaust as I have a stock exhaust system beyond the downpipe. Hence I had to say QTP downpipe unless someone is willing to say I hid that as well.
So we're supposed to hold their hands and tell them that it's ok? That if you want to join in on ANY sport/event/function that's new to you, it's ok go do whatever you want without having done one iota of research as to how do join in and learn what you need?
Ok, fine... I'll keep that in mind.
It started out as a simple question that had a yes/no answer. Where it went from there was up to the OP. And its become kind of obvious through recent posts that those that were actually AT the event, that were asked about what class by the OP, were led astray as well.
--kC[/QUOTE]
Suddenly the responsibility to maintain an orderly event falls on our shoulders? If the organizers felt that they couldn't adequately class us they should have turned us back at the door. The fact that my car had a modified downpipe was obvious and not hidden. I made it clear the downpipe was modified and the obvious question that should have been asked would have been "are the cats intact?" Suddenly, This sport which is supposed to welcome new people, no longer welcomes us but frowns upon us for not knowing every ioda of information. The people who organized NER were very friendly and helpful. You sir, are not. You've come on to this thread to critique my friend in his moment of pride, due to a clear miscommunication. If I wanted to be missclassed I would have hidden the Swaybar too. We did not willfully deceive anyone, yes my car may have been misclassed but that responsiblity does not fall upon our shoulders. Again, I thank NER for a great experience and their hospitality, but completly disagree with the techs decision to post that he was not told it was catless. A. It was obvious with the QTP open that there should have been some question of the cat's existence and B. The responsiblity to accurately classify the car falls on the organizers, If I say modified downpipe the next question should be "are the cats retained?". In the game of basketball every player may or may not know the rules yet the ref's are there to make sure the rules are followed. This misunderstanding does not reflect poorly on me as a person or NER as organizers, it was a misunderstanding and nothing more.
Tirewarmer - Who are we to trust if not the organizers? Did you ever go to a college course stand up and start teaching the course? There is a assigned head in every organized social setting and in this one it was the techs.
KC - To say it was obvious that I lied about the mods on my car is a completly out of your capability as a dissociated on looker. You were not there, you did not speak. I spoke for the mods on my car. There was nothing I hid, I could have much more easily hid my rear sway bar. The QTP open should have been plenty of notice to the Tech's that maybe there was something to inspect about my downpipe. One single question on the part of the people whose job it was to class us would have prevented all this.
To NER - I am very upset that this whole argument occured. I felt you ran a very nicely organized and friendly event. I do not mean to blame you as organizers, the event was a great experience. We may have been missclassed but that was not as a result of any deception on my part. If I wanted to hide my mods it would have been easy to keep the QTP shut and I could have not told you of my rear sway bar.
(edit)
I never mentioned a modified exhaust as I have a stock exhaust system beyond the downpipe. Hence I had to say QTP downpipe unless someone is willing to say I hid that as well.
| solo-x | 01-31-2007 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16870139]Oh geezus, you gotta ****ing be kidding me! I didn't realize I was arguing a case before the Supreme Court. :rolleyes: If we're going to get into semantics then allow me to quote Mirriam-Webster, which defines "innocent" as "free from guilt or sin [b]especially through lack of knowledge[/b] of evil." Based on that, yes, an [i]innocent[/i] person most certainly can incriminate themselves.
Got anything else?
Pat[/QUOTE]
:huh: Damn. You've talked yourself in a circle. You can't be guilty of cheating if you didn't know you were breaking a rule. Cheating implies knowingly breaking a rule. Ergo, if the OP really didn't know the rules (lack of knowledge) he is innocent of cheating. By getting all defensive, the OP paints the picture that he knew the car wasn't legal for the class but ran there anyhow. He incriminated himself by getting defensive, not by admitting he didn't know the rules and had unknowingly let himself get improperly classed.
I'm not going to rip a n00b for not knowing ALL of the rules. I might gently remind one that they really should do a LITTLE research, but for a first timer who came on a whim I'm pretty lax.
When I'm working at registration, I HAVE to ask loaded questions to make sure n00bs are properly classing their cars. Why? Because for some stupid reason the question "What mods have you done?" excludes a full fuggin motor swap if the motor is "stock". Car nuts know what they've done and most are aware that something they have done may affect their classing. Some are open about EVERYTHING they've done, including things like panel air filters, pedal covers, and I've even had a guy ask if synthetic oil was ok. I've had other guys purposely not mention their motor swap, carbon hood, and a048 r-comps on their STS car. "Gee, I don't know what class I'm in. I've done springs and shocks and that's it....". When you ask the 2nd group of guys if they'd changed their hood, they get defensive and accuse tech/reg of misclassing them and "not asking me if I'd changed it". When you ask the 1st group the same question you get "Oh crap, I forgot to mention that! I'm sorry, I'll be sure to run in the correct class next time!". Do you see the difference?
Got anything else?
Pat[/QUOTE]
:huh: Damn. You've talked yourself in a circle. You can't be guilty of cheating if you didn't know you were breaking a rule. Cheating implies knowingly breaking a rule. Ergo, if the OP really didn't know the rules (lack of knowledge) he is innocent of cheating. By getting all defensive, the OP paints the picture that he knew the car wasn't legal for the class but ran there anyhow. He incriminated himself by getting defensive, not by admitting he didn't know the rules and had unknowingly let himself get improperly classed.
I'm not going to rip a n00b for not knowing ALL of the rules. I might gently remind one that they really should do a LITTLE research, but for a first timer who came on a whim I'm pretty lax.
When I'm working at registration, I HAVE to ask loaded questions to make sure n00bs are properly classing their cars. Why? Because for some stupid reason the question "What mods have you done?" excludes a full fuggin motor swap if the motor is "stock". Car nuts know what they've done and most are aware that something they have done may affect their classing. Some are open about EVERYTHING they've done, including things like panel air filters, pedal covers, and I've even had a guy ask if synthetic oil was ok. I've had other guys purposely not mention their motor swap, carbon hood, and a048 r-comps on their STS car. "Gee, I don't know what class I'm in. I've done springs and shocks and that's it....". When you ask the 2nd group of guys if they'd changed their hood, they get defensive and accuse tech/reg of misclassing them and "not asking me if I'd changed it". When you ask the 1st group the same question you get "Oh crap, I forgot to mention that! I'm sorry, I'll be sure to run in the correct class next time!". Do you see the difference?
| solo-x | 01-31-2007 12:33 PM |
News Flash: Tech inspectors don't know everything about every car and every possible way of modifying it!!!!
| kwh29 | 01-31-2007 12:38 PM |
Damn! Arguments like this are why I don't autocross any more. I like the way my (and Fred's) local club does classification: 4wd, 2wd big displacement, 2wd small displacement, street tire, rally tire. That's it. All of the modifications in the world mean about 1% next to those 6 gross classifications. The SCCA has opened a nasty bag of worms with their silly prep rules and opened the door to annoying arguments like this one.
--Kevin H.
--Kevin H.
| solo-x | 01-31-2007 12:39 PM |
So the tech guys are supposed to know what a QTP downpipe is?
The problem here is not the techs dropping the ball. It's the competitors not realizing that THEY are what makes the event work. There are no hired corner workers, paid scrutineers or salaried organizers. They are all VOLUNTEERS. Let me say it one more time in case anyone missed it.
YOU, THE [B]COMPETITORS, ARE[/B] RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING RUN AN ORDERLY AND FAIR EVENT!!!!!!
Nobody is taking home a paycheck for this. If you don't show up for your work assignment, the event is disrupted and others have to pick up the slack. Fix your perception of what the event is, a volunteer driven event, and your approach will change.
The problem here is not the techs dropping the ball. It's the competitors not realizing that THEY are what makes the event work. There are no hired corner workers, paid scrutineers or salaried organizers. They are all VOLUNTEERS. Let me say it one more time in case anyone missed it.
YOU, THE [B]COMPETITORS, ARE[/B] RESPONSIBLE FOR HELPING RUN AN ORDERLY AND FAIR EVENT!!!!!!
Nobody is taking home a paycheck for this. If you don't show up for your work assignment, the event is disrupted and others have to pick up the slack. Fix your perception of what the event is, a volunteer driven event, and your approach will change.
| Mooneyes13 | 01-31-2007 12:48 PM |
watching..
| jcroy66 | 01-31-2007 12:51 PM |
OK, look. You're not understanding. This is not a game with referees or college professors.
This is a competitor-policed sport. It is YOUR responsibility (not tech's, not the organizer's) to class yourself properly. You didn't.
Next time, class yourself properly. End of story.
This is a competitor-policed sport. It is YOUR responsibility (not tech's, not the organizer's) to class yourself properly. You didn't.
Next time, class yourself properly. End of story.
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE]Next time, class yourself properly. End of story.[/QUOTE]
Agreed - don't know why this thread needed so many handbags to get to here..........
Agreed - don't know why this thread needed so many handbags to get to here..........
| KC | 01-31-2007 12:56 PM |
[QUOTE=njskatchmo;16878513]Suddenly the responsibility to maintain an orderly event falls on our shoulders?[/QUOTE]
That's a full and resounding yes. Since you didn't know that, you now know. It's a competitor run and governed sport. Those that make the rules are not paid to do so. The 'organizers' are competitors too. They're not paid to sit there and make sure that everything on your car is legal. It's up to the competitors to police and class themselves accordingly.
[QUOTE] If the organizers felt that they couldn't adequately class us they should have turned us back at the door. [/QUOTE]
They can only go on what you tell them. That's why it's very important to disclose any kind of modification you have had. This has no bearing on whether or not THEY classed you properly. You're under the assumption that it's 'their' problem and 'their' fault. It's not. It's up to the competitor.
[QUOTE]The fact that my car had a modified downpipe was obvious and not hidden. I made it clear the downpipe was modified and the obvious question that should have been asked would have been "are the cats intact?" [/QUOTE] You may be misunderstanding... the downpipe isn't the issue at hand. It's if you had ANY cats, at all. It's legal to remove cats, or run high-flows, etc.. in different classes.
[QUOTE]Suddenly, This sport which is supposed to welcome new people, no longer welcomes us but frowns upon us for not knowing every ioda of information. [/QUOTE]They still welcome new people, and will forever welcome new people (I hope). They want people there, to show up, to have fun... everyone. If you're taking out of this a different message than that because someone, somewhere asked if you had any cats in your exhaust system, then I'm afraid I really cannot help that.
What some people lose sight of is that since they're all there to have fun, they feel entitled to 'have fun' no matter what and sometimes that at someone else's expense when things are classed wrong.
[QUOTE]The people who organized NER were very friendly and helpful.[/QUOTE] I totally agree.
[QUOTE]You sir, are not. You've come on to this thread to critique my friend in his moment of pride, due to a clear miscommunication. [/QUOTE]You'd find out that I am, actually, a very helpful person when I'm not attacked, prodded, poked and accused. At that, pride is a very dangerous thing... especially when it's confused with bragging.
[QUOTE]If I wanted to be missclassed I would have hidden the Swaybar too. We did not willfully deceive anyone, yes my car may have been misclassed but that responsiblity does not fall upon our shoulders. [/QUOTE] Misunderstanding. Yes, it does. Squarely.
[QUOTE]Again, I thank NER for a great experience and their hospitality, but completly disagree with the techs decision to post that he was not told it was catless. [/QUOTE]Again, Tech is for safety and safety only.
[QUOTE]A. It was obvious with the QTP open that there should have been some question of the cat's existence[/QUOTE] Obvious to whom? The voulenteers that don't know subarus, and drive other models of cars? [QUOTE] and B. The responsiblity to accurately classify the car falls on the organizers,[/QUOTE]You've said that enough, but I have to reiterate, that's a complete misunderstanding on your behalf.
[QUOTE] If I say modified downpipe the next question should be "are the cats retained?". [/QUOTE] Why? You're talking to people that may not know the model of your car, or modifications made. It wasn't a Subaru-centric event filled with people that only know Subarus. Again, you're making assumptions and saying it's everyone else's fault but your own.
[QUOTE]In the game of basketball every player may or may not know the rules yet the ref's are there to make sure the rules are followed.[/QUOTE] Because the refs are paid to be there. However, if you were to go to a pickup game, rules will be bent, and if they are, there's going to be some dealing with it.
[QUOTE] This misunderstanding does not reflect poorly on me as a person or NER as organizers, it was a misunderstanding and nothing more. [/QUOTE] In that, I wholly agree.
[QUOTE]KC - To say it was obvious that I lied about the mods on my car is a completly out of your capability as a dissociated on looker. You were not there, you did not speak. I spoke for the mods on my car. There was nothing I hid, I could have much more easily hid my rear sway bar. The QTP open should have been plenty of notice to the Tech's that maybe there was something to inspect about my downpipe.[/QUOTE]We're not talking about your downpipe. We're talking about having any cats, at all, on your car. You CAN remove a cat on the downpipe. S1MPSON is the one that said:[QUOTE]No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] One single question on the part of the people whose job it was to class us would have prevented all this.[/QUOTE] Competitors responsibility.
[QUOTE]I never mentioned a modified exhaust as I have a stock exhaust system beyond the downpipe. Hence I had to say QTP downpipe unless someone is willing to say I hid that as well.[/QUOTE]Do you, or do you not, have ANY cats on your car. Coming from Subaru specific knowledge... a 'stock exhaust system' beyond the downpipe missing a cat, is no longer a stock exhaust system. Again... this whole thread blew up at this point:[QUOTE=S1MPSON]No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? [/QUOTE]
Do you have any catalytic converters in the car?
Next time, if we meet up at any events, I will buy the beer. You'll see that I'm not really as big of an a-hole as you may think.
--kC
As I said earlier... I was willing to discuss this all in private, but some people had to keep posting. I tried.
That's a full and resounding yes. Since you didn't know that, you now know. It's a competitor run and governed sport. Those that make the rules are not paid to do so. The 'organizers' are competitors too. They're not paid to sit there and make sure that everything on your car is legal. It's up to the competitors to police and class themselves accordingly.
[QUOTE] If the organizers felt that they couldn't adequately class us they should have turned us back at the door. [/QUOTE]
They can only go on what you tell them. That's why it's very important to disclose any kind of modification you have had. This has no bearing on whether or not THEY classed you properly. You're under the assumption that it's 'their' problem and 'their' fault. It's not. It's up to the competitor.
[QUOTE]The fact that my car had a modified downpipe was obvious and not hidden. I made it clear the downpipe was modified and the obvious question that should have been asked would have been "are the cats intact?" [/QUOTE] You may be misunderstanding... the downpipe isn't the issue at hand. It's if you had ANY cats, at all. It's legal to remove cats, or run high-flows, etc.. in different classes.
[QUOTE]Suddenly, This sport which is supposed to welcome new people, no longer welcomes us but frowns upon us for not knowing every ioda of information. [/QUOTE]They still welcome new people, and will forever welcome new people (I hope). They want people there, to show up, to have fun... everyone. If you're taking out of this a different message than that because someone, somewhere asked if you had any cats in your exhaust system, then I'm afraid I really cannot help that.
What some people lose sight of is that since they're all there to have fun, they feel entitled to 'have fun' no matter what and sometimes that at someone else's expense when things are classed wrong.
[QUOTE]The people who organized NER were very friendly and helpful.[/QUOTE] I totally agree.
[QUOTE]You sir, are not. You've come on to this thread to critique my friend in his moment of pride, due to a clear miscommunication. [/QUOTE]You'd find out that I am, actually, a very helpful person when I'm not attacked, prodded, poked and accused. At that, pride is a very dangerous thing... especially when it's confused with bragging.
[QUOTE]If I wanted to be missclassed I would have hidden the Swaybar too. We did not willfully deceive anyone, yes my car may have been misclassed but that responsiblity does not fall upon our shoulders. [/QUOTE] Misunderstanding. Yes, it does. Squarely.
[QUOTE]Again, I thank NER for a great experience and their hospitality, but completly disagree with the techs decision to post that he was not told it was catless. [/QUOTE]Again, Tech is for safety and safety only.
[QUOTE]A. It was obvious with the QTP open that there should have been some question of the cat's existence[/QUOTE] Obvious to whom? The voulenteers that don't know subarus, and drive other models of cars? [QUOTE] and B. The responsiblity to accurately classify the car falls on the organizers,[/QUOTE]You've said that enough, but I have to reiterate, that's a complete misunderstanding on your behalf.
[QUOTE] If I say modified downpipe the next question should be "are the cats retained?". [/QUOTE] Why? You're talking to people that may not know the model of your car, or modifications made. It wasn't a Subaru-centric event filled with people that only know Subarus. Again, you're making assumptions and saying it's everyone else's fault but your own.
[QUOTE]In the game of basketball every player may or may not know the rules yet the ref's are there to make sure the rules are followed.[/QUOTE] Because the refs are paid to be there. However, if you were to go to a pickup game, rules will be bent, and if they are, there's going to be some dealing with it.
[QUOTE] This misunderstanding does not reflect poorly on me as a person or NER as organizers, it was a misunderstanding and nothing more. [/QUOTE] In that, I wholly agree.
[QUOTE]KC - To say it was obvious that I lied about the mods on my car is a completly out of your capability as a dissociated on looker. You were not there, you did not speak. I spoke for the mods on my car. There was nothing I hid, I could have much more easily hid my rear sway bar. The QTP open should have been plenty of notice to the Tech's that maybe there was something to inspect about my downpipe.[/QUOTE]We're not talking about your downpipe. We're talking about having any cats, at all, on your car. You CAN remove a cat on the downpipe. S1MPSON is the one that said:[QUOTE]No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] One single question on the part of the people whose job it was to class us would have prevented all this.[/QUOTE] Competitors responsibility.
[QUOTE]I never mentioned a modified exhaust as I have a stock exhaust system beyond the downpipe. Hence I had to say QTP downpipe unless someone is willing to say I hid that as well.[/QUOTE]Do you, or do you not, have ANY cats on your car. Coming from Subaru specific knowledge... a 'stock exhaust system' beyond the downpipe missing a cat, is no longer a stock exhaust system. Again... this whole thread blew up at this point:[QUOTE=S1MPSON]No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? [/QUOTE]
Do you have any catalytic converters in the car?
Next time, if we meet up at any events, I will buy the beer. You'll see that I'm not really as big of an a-hole as you may think.
--kC
As I said earlier... I was willing to discuss this all in private, but some people had to keep posting. I tried.
| Chandy69 | 01-31-2007 01:02 PM |
KC
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.
Did you loose sleep last night about this thread?
EDIT: OMG i just looked what you typed. How much time did you take out of your day to care about S1mpson! If you have a gf you should be dumped for spending this much time on one post and not enought time with her.
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.
Did you loose sleep last night about this thread?
EDIT: OMG i just looked what you typed. How much time did you take out of your day to care about S1mpson! If you have a gf you should be dumped for spending this much time on one post and not enought time with her.
| KC | 01-31-2007 01:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16879105]KC
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.[/QUOTE] Help people.
[QUOTE]Did you loose sleep last night about this thread?[/QUOTE]:lol:
[QUOTE]EDIT: OMG i just looked what you typed. How much time did you take out of your day to care about S1mpson! If you have a gf you should be dumped for spending this much time on one post and not enought time with her.[/QUOTE]:lol: :lol:
--kC
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.[/QUOTE] Help people.
[QUOTE]Did you loose sleep last night about this thread?[/QUOTE]:lol:
[QUOTE]EDIT: OMG i just looked what you typed. How much time did you take out of your day to care about S1mpson! If you have a gf you should be dumped for spending this much time on one post and not enought time with her.[/QUOTE]:lol: :lol:
--kC
| S1MPSONS | 01-31-2007 01:10 PM |
[QUOTE=kC;16878113]Looks like those 2WD cars in Modified were quick (faster than you).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=fastfreddy;16878113]What does a comment like that achieve, if not to cause trouble.
Leave the guy off - I was suprised how well a lot of the newbies went.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
[QUOTE=fastfreddy;16878113]What does a comment like that achieve, if not to cause trouble.
Leave the guy off - I was suprised how well a lot of the newbies went.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
| jcroy66 | 01-31-2007 01:12 PM |
[quote=KC;16879026]Next time, if we meet up at any events, I will buy the beer.[/quote]Hey, if I start an e-argument with you, will you buy ME beer next event too?? :D Oh wait, never mind. I think I'm already in the "hole", drink-wise. As I seem to recall you bought an entire ROUND of drinks (tequila I believe) at the 2005 Solo Nationals banquet! :banana:
Seriously, KC is a good guy. He can be an e-thug at times, but so can we all.
Oh, and I'm fairly certain Liz would not approve of KC having a girlfriend. :lol:
Seriously, KC is a good guy. He can be an e-thug at times, but so can we all.
Oh, and I'm fairly certain Liz would not approve of KC having a girlfriend. :lol:
| KC | 01-31-2007 01:15 PM |
Wait, was it not factual? Was there something incorrect about that fact? Looking at the results, it's true. What's the problem?
And yes, it was a direct shot to the ego, and pride to see how a 1st time POSTER to motorsports (Not NER n00b... what if I were posting from, say, California asking about catcons?) bragging about their win, would take it. So yes, I poked the bear, as I'm usually wont to do. Boo freaking hoo. Is this the 1st time that your ego's been bruised?
Let's not lose sight that this should be no reflection on NER, at all. It's how a poster on THIS forum reacted to a question on the internet. Because I'm local [B]should have no reflection on the region itself[/B]. Again, [I]I could easily be from someplace else in this country posting about it[/I].
OP reacted like a 12 year old, instead of saying "Yeah, they were good and fast. Wow!"
I took it and ran with it. :)
--kC
And yes, it was a direct shot to the ego, and pride to see how a 1st time POSTER to motorsports (Not NER n00b... what if I were posting from, say, California asking about catcons?) bragging about their win, would take it. So yes, I poked the bear, as I'm usually wont to do. Boo freaking hoo. Is this the 1st time that your ego's been bruised?
Let's not lose sight that this should be no reflection on NER, at all. It's how a poster on THIS forum reacted to a question on the internet. Because I'm local [B]should have no reflection on the region itself[/B]. Again, [I]I could easily be from someplace else in this country posting about it[/I].
OP reacted like a 12 year old, instead of saying "Yeah, they were good and fast. Wow!"
I took it and ran with it. :)
--kC
| KC | 01-31-2007 01:17 PM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66;16879274]Hey, if I start an e-argument with you, will you buy ME beer next event too?? :D Oh wait, never mind. I think I'm already in the "hole", drink-wise. [/QUOTE]I think we're even for you having shipped some "stuff" with Mike to this years nats. :)
Yum!
--kC
Yum!
--kC
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE]Wait, was it not factual? Was there something incorrect about that fact? Looking at the results, it's true. What's the problem?[/QUOTE]
What you did was basically rub his nose in it by saying that one of your autocross buddies beat him. That's all that you were trying to achieve with that comment. I think it was you who got offended first and started this tirade against him.
It was his first event, and he was obviously excitied by his result. Motorsport is exciting and you should know better at this stage than getting risen so easily.
No need to go to town on him.
What you did was basically rub his nose in it by saying that one of your autocross buddies beat him. That's all that you were trying to achieve with that comment. I think it was you who got offended first and started this tirade against him.
It was his first event, and he was obviously excitied by his result. Motorsport is exciting and you should know better at this stage than getting risen so easily.
No need to go to town on him.
| KC | 01-31-2007 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE=fastfreddy;16879434]What you did was basically rub his nose in it by saying that one of your autocross buddies beat him. That's all that you were trying to achieve with that comment. I think it was you who got offended first and started this tirade against him.[/QUOTE]Actually, no... it wasn't anything to bring others into it, [I]especially Chang[/I].
It was a "Wow, you have AWD and superior skillz (ph34R MY Awsomeness! I'm on a Subaru Forum!), and you were beat by 2wd." It didn't/doesn't matter who was driving them. :) Just an AWD vs 2wd debate. Nothing more.
As I said in my previous post, I could easily be 1/2 way across the country, and would probably still post the same things. Who were driving them are inconsequential... Heck, one of the others in 2wd doesn't auto-x AFAIK.
--kC
It was a "Wow, you have AWD and superior skillz (ph34R MY Awsomeness! I'm on a Subaru Forum!), and you were beat by 2wd." It didn't/doesn't matter who was driving them. :) Just an AWD vs 2wd debate. Nothing more.
As I said in my previous post, I could easily be 1/2 way across the country, and would probably still post the same things. Who were driving them are inconsequential... Heck, one of the others in 2wd doesn't auto-x AFAIK.
--kC
| Tirewarmer | 01-31-2007 01:44 PM |
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16858792]KC,
The Techs: If they want to put a car in class they will do it. Maybe because the car is for the most part Un modded and/or they wanted to even the amount of cars maybe so they had more cars in its class?
The rules are set by the people running it! In any sport if they rule FOUL, FAIR, OUT, or SAFE. The Referees, officials, and umpires, and even the Techs make the decisions!
So he followed what they told him.. So he shouldn't be put down for trying.. [/QUOTE]
Wrong. SCCA competition like this one is self policing. But thanks for assuming things about something you know nothing about to set KC straight.
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16858792]
Wow man you need to get out more and have a brighter day. Maybe a lap dace. Whatever gets you to smile..Go take the Saturn for a drive.
Good job I wanted to go to this event but my girlfriends kept me up late and I missed it. Next time I hope to see you KC. And you can show off your Skills. And While I miss classify my car. I'll make sure to tell you, just to see you cry.
Hey i'm not there to win either! Just to have a great time:banana:
Chuck[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked this was a motorsports forum. None of us care that your girlfriend kept you up last night. Go to teh OT to discuss non-relevant topics like that one. Or you could share your immense technical knowledge like you did in this thread:
[URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16875372#post16875372"]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16875372#post16875372[/URL]
Or you could go back to taking pics with these "nice" young ladies Chucky.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Chandy70/YBL/DSC00352.jpg[/IMG]
Please feel free to come out to any SCCA rallyx, autocross, time trial, road race, ice race etc. and show us how it's done since KC and the rest of us suck as you so maturely stated:
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16858792]
KC
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.
[/QUOTE]
Oh - I spent ten minutes on this response FYI.
The Techs: If they want to put a car in class they will do it. Maybe because the car is for the most part Un modded and/or they wanted to even the amount of cars maybe so they had more cars in its class?
The rules are set by the people running it! In any sport if they rule FOUL, FAIR, OUT, or SAFE. The Referees, officials, and umpires, and even the Techs make the decisions!
So he followed what they told him.. So he shouldn't be put down for trying.. [/QUOTE]
Wrong. SCCA competition like this one is self policing. But thanks for assuming things about something you know nothing about to set KC straight.
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16858792]
Wow man you need to get out more and have a brighter day. Maybe a lap dace. Whatever gets you to smile..Go take the Saturn for a drive.
Good job I wanted to go to this event but my girlfriends kept me up late and I missed it. Next time I hope to see you KC. And you can show off your Skills. And While I miss classify my car. I'll make sure to tell you, just to see you cry.
Hey i'm not there to win either! Just to have a great time:banana:
Chuck[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked this was a motorsports forum. None of us care that your girlfriend kept you up last night. Go to teh OT to discuss non-relevant topics like that one. Or you could share your immense technical knowledge like you did in this thread:
[URL="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16875372#post16875372"]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16875372#post16875372[/URL]
Or you could go back to taking pics with these "nice" young ladies Chucky.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/Chandy70/YBL/DSC00352.jpg[/IMG]
Please feel free to come out to any SCCA rallyx, autocross, time trial, road race, ice race etc. and show us how it's done since KC and the rest of us suck as you so maturely stated:
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16858792]
KC
What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.
[/QUOTE]
Oh - I spent ten minutes on this response FYI.
| Fred | 01-31-2007 01:53 PM |
I took a look at the results, S1MPSONS. Some of those guys ran against some of our guys at the Oakland Acres, VA scca national challenge last year. Looks like you really did pretty well for your first time, but you do have some improving to do. FTD for that event should've been a lot quicker - M4 wasn't nearly as fast as it should've been. If you decide you really love rallyxing & you like to travel, come down to the OA events some this year - they're having a school next month, I think. You'll have some real competition in AWD cars there, so you'll be able to see how good you really are. (and I'm not talking trash, just trying to be helpful :) )
[url]www.dcrally.com[/url]
Name's Kevin Allen in case you make it... I'll probably be driving a deceptively plain-looking silver 2.5RS coupe.
[url]www.dcrally.com[/url]
Name's Kevin Allen in case you make it... I'll probably be driving a deceptively plain-looking silver 2.5RS coupe.
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 01:57 PM |
[QUOTE]FTD for that event should've been a lot quicker - M4 wasn't nearly as fast as it should've been.[/QUOTE]
M4 didn't get FTD :')
M4 didn't get FTD :')
| KC | 01-31-2007 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE=fastfreddy;16880017]M4 didn't get FTD :')[/QUOTE]
Poor Mike! :lol: Wow. If it wasn't for that last DNS... wow.
--kC
Poor Mike! :lol: Wow. If it wasn't for that last DNS... wow.
--kC
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 02:43 PM |
Live and learn!
Better to ask how many runs next time rather than to sit around drinking lukewarm tea and admiring my frostbite.
Better to ask how many runs next time rather than to sit around drinking lukewarm tea and admiring my frostbite.
| KC | 01-31-2007 02:50 PM |
I thought your name was Freddy! :lol: NOW I know who you are! *lightbulb*
--kC
(Live and learn I guess.)
--kC
(Live and learn I guess.)
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE]I thought your name was Freddy![/QUOTE]
Haha
Get rid of that mazda and get yourself a scooby and come play in the dirt again!
Haha
Get rid of that mazda and get yourself a scooby and come play in the dirt again!
| KC | 01-31-2007 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=fastfreddy;16880958]Haha
Get rid of that mazda and get yourself a scooby and come play in the dirt again![/QUOTE]Honestly I can't think I've ever rally-xed any of my cars in the dirt, I've always co-driven. They were set up very different. However, in the snow was a different matter... usually up at Poohs corner... one time in the ol' wagon, and the other 2nd place finish in the Baja, behind Chris' Baja.
Oh... and what Mazda? I haven't had that since Sept. ;) I've been toying around with the idea of using the Saturn for some dirt fun. :)
--kC
Get rid of that mazda and get yourself a scooby and come play in the dirt again![/QUOTE]Honestly I can't think I've ever rally-xed any of my cars in the dirt, I've always co-driven. They were set up very different. However, in the snow was a different matter... usually up at Poohs corner... one time in the ol' wagon, and the other 2nd place finish in the Baja, behind Chris' Baja.
Oh... and what Mazda? I haven't had that since Sept. ;) I've been toying around with the idea of using the Saturn for some dirt fun. :)
--kC
| Fred | 01-31-2007 04:15 PM |
[QUOTE]M4 didn't get FTD :')[/QUOTE]
Incorrect - FTD at rallyxes is determined by total of all runs. You must've thought you were at an autox. :p What happened on your last run? Those first 4 were actually pretty decent times. And what tires were you using?
edit - nm; I read what you posted & know what happened. LOL
Incorrect - FTD at rallyxes is determined by total of all runs. You must've thought you were at an autox. :p What happened on your last run? Those first 4 were actually pretty decent times. And what tires were you using?
edit - nm; I read what you posted & know what happened. LOL
| S1MPSONS | 01-31-2007 04:28 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;16861237]Pat, check your PMs. I'm done responding to this thread in the sake of letting this thread pass on.
If anyone wants to yell at me some more, or discuss what I did, please feel free to PM me. I'll happily explain things to you.
--kC[/QUOTE]
^^^ If only this were true. STOP POSTING!
If anyone wants to yell at me some more, or discuss what I did, please feel free to PM me. I'll happily explain things to you.
--kC[/QUOTE]
^^^ If only this were true. STOP POSTING!
| Tirewarmer | 01-31-2007 04:34 PM |
[QUOTE=S1MPSONS;16882444]^^^ If only this were true. STOP POSTING![/QUOTE]
DIAF
.
DIAF
.
| Chandy69 | 01-31-2007 04:35 PM |
Kc and other motorsport guys,
It comes down to a simple line. Maybe your stepmom never told you this. Maybe she did?
"If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.."
PS. If you want to see more pics of the girls and I.
I'll gladly print autograph and mail you one. :)
Or just go buy the this issues of FHM and see Miss #4
It comes down to a simple line. Maybe your stepmom never told you this. Maybe she did?
"If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.."
PS. If you want to see more pics of the girls and I.
I'll gladly print autograph and mail you one. :)
Or just go buy the this issues of FHM and see Miss #4
| HemiKLR | 01-31-2007 04:43 PM |
burn.
| KC | 01-31-2007 04:47 PM |
[QUOTE]"If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Chandy69]What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.[/QUOTE]
Yeah... whatever. :lol:
--kC
[QUOTE=Chandy69]What do you do in real life? Other then sucking.[/QUOTE]
Yeah... whatever. :lol:
--kC
| Tirewarmer | 01-31-2007 04:48 PM |
[QUOTE=Chandy69;16882545]Kc and other motorsport guys,
It comes down to a simple line. Maybe your stepmom never told you this. Maybe she did?
"If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.."
PS. If you want to see more pics of the girls and I.
I'll gladly print autograph and mail you one. :)
Or just go buy the this issues of FHM and see Miss #4[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="7"]DIAF[/SIZE][COLOR="LightBlue"] [SIZE="1"]with your hoes after you IDP S1MPSONS[/SIZE][/COLOR]
It comes down to a simple line. Maybe your stepmom never told you this. Maybe she did?
"If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.."
PS. If you want to see more pics of the girls and I.
I'll gladly print autograph and mail you one. :)
Or just go buy the this issues of FHM and see Miss #4[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="7"]DIAF[/SIZE][COLOR="LightBlue"] [SIZE="1"]with your hoes after you IDP S1MPSONS[/SIZE][/COLOR]
| fastfreddy | 01-31-2007 04:54 PM |
[QUOTE]Or just go buy the this issues of FHM and see Miss #4[/QUOTE]
I'd say the pages of your FHM are stickier than set of Kumho 710s
I'd say the pages of your FHM are stickier than set of Kumho 710s
| rallysquirrel | 01-31-2007 05:00 PM |
If I was racing and got 2nd after Simpson, I wouldn't blame it on the cats. I'd blame it on the tires AND myself.
| KC | 01-31-2007 05:00 PM |
Chandy, I'm going to single you out on this one.... Do not taunt happy fun ball.
You may want to own up that that your mom is one of my x-girlfriends that I dropped like a bad habit. Afterall, I'm old enough to be your dad.
Are you my illegitimate son? :lol:
Tal, I'm still curious... do you have any catalytic converters in your car? If so, I'd gladly apologize. I was under the impression, going on what S1MPSON said, that you didn't have any, at all.
--kC
You may want to own up that that your mom is one of my x-girlfriends that I dropped like a bad habit. Afterall, I'm old enough to be your dad.
Are you my illegitimate son? :lol:
Tal, I'm still curious... do you have any catalytic converters in your car? If so, I'd gladly apologize. I was under the impression, going on what S1MPSON said, that you didn't have any, at all.
--kC
| rallysquirrel | 01-31-2007 05:01 PM |
BTW Simpson were you able to grab one of the scoobie stickers from Warrens Audi fender?
I hope you know what I'm talking about.
I hope you know what I'm talking about.
| S1MPSONS | 01-31-2007 05:15 PM |
[QUOTE=Tirewarmer;16882526]DIAF[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tirewarmer;16882709]DIAF with your hoes after you IDP S1MPSONS[/QUOTE]
How old are you?
I can't believe you were born in 1975. What kind of 31 year old posts such non-sense?
GROW UP!
[QUOTE=Tirewarmer;16882709]DIAF with your hoes after you IDP S1MPSONS[/QUOTE]
How old are you?
I can't believe you were born in 1975. What kind of 31 year old posts such non-sense?
GROW UP!
| KC | 01-31-2007 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE=S1MPSONS;16883145]How old are you?
I can't believe you were born in 1975. What kind of 31 year old posts such non-sense?
GROW UP![/QUOTE]
I think he's trying to talk in a level at which you might understand.. you know, dumbing it down a bit so it sinks in.... with the current state of education, it only makes sense.
--kC
(If you cannot pick up on my recent change to sarcasm... well... oohhh a shiny thing!)
I can't believe you were born in 1975. What kind of 31 year old posts such non-sense?
GROW UP![/QUOTE]
I think he's trying to talk in a level at which you might understand.. you know, dumbing it down a bit so it sinks in.... with the current state of education, it only makes sense.
--kC
(If you cannot pick up on my recent change to sarcasm... well... oohhh a shiny thing!)
| Patrick Olsen | 01-31-2007 06:33 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;16877588]So we're supposed to hold their hands and tell them that it's ok? That if you want to join in on ANY sport/event/function that's new to you, it's ok go do whatever you want without having done one iota of research as to how do join in and learn what you need? [/QUOTE]
That's how I got into auto-xing, and I know I'm certainly not the first and I won't be the last.
The first time I played soccer I didn't look it up on the internet to figure out how I was supposed to play. Of course, I was 7, and the internet hadn't been invented by Al Gore yet, but that's neither here nor there. As a better example, I never played Ultimate Frisbee until I was a senior in college. I showed up and learned how to play on the field, and there was understanding among the other players (at least on my own team) that I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
[quote=solo-x]Damn. You've talked yourself in a circle. You can't be guilty of cheating if you didn't know you were breaking a rule. Cheating implies knowingly breaking a rule. Ergo, if the OP really didn't know the rules (lack of knowledge) he is innocent of cheating.[/quote]
Concur.
[quote=solo-x]By getting all defensive, the OP paints the picture that he knew the car wasn't legal for the class but ran there anyhow. He incriminated himself by getting defensive, not by admitting he didn't know the rules and had unknowingly let himself get improperly classed.[/quote]
I've already explained twice why he got defensive, and it's the exact same reason I would have gotten defensive. Simply based on context it was pretty easy to see why KC was asking the question. Someone coming into my thread to point out that 2WD cars were faster than me and to start asking questions about how my car was prepped would prompt me to get defensive, too. KC himself has said that he poked the bear - why, I don't know.
[quote=fastfreddy][quote]Next time, class yourself properly. End of story.[/quote]
Agreed - don't know why this thread needed so many handbags to get to here..........[/quote]
Because that simple quote was missing from the initial post that set off this whole retarded discussion.
And FWIW, I have no idea what a "QTP downpipe" is, nor what it means for it to be open. :confused: I certainly wouldn't expect a tech inspector, with who-knows-what vehicular expertise, to know what a "QTP downpipe" is, or to know that an OEM Subaru downpipe has a cat in it, or to know where any of the cats in a Subaru exhaust system are.
Pat
That's how I got into auto-xing, and I know I'm certainly not the first and I won't be the last.
The first time I played soccer I didn't look it up on the internet to figure out how I was supposed to play. Of course, I was 7, and the internet hadn't been invented by Al Gore yet, but that's neither here nor there. As a better example, I never played Ultimate Frisbee until I was a senior in college. I showed up and learned how to play on the field, and there was understanding among the other players (at least on my own team) that I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
[quote=solo-x]Damn. You've talked yourself in a circle. You can't be guilty of cheating if you didn't know you were breaking a rule. Cheating implies knowingly breaking a rule. Ergo, if the OP really didn't know the rules (lack of knowledge) he is innocent of cheating.[/quote]
Concur.
[quote=solo-x]By getting all defensive, the OP paints the picture that he knew the car wasn't legal for the class but ran there anyhow. He incriminated himself by getting defensive, not by admitting he didn't know the rules and had unknowingly let himself get improperly classed.[/quote]
I've already explained twice why he got defensive, and it's the exact same reason I would have gotten defensive. Simply based on context it was pretty easy to see why KC was asking the question. Someone coming into my thread to point out that 2WD cars were faster than me and to start asking questions about how my car was prepped would prompt me to get defensive, too. KC himself has said that he poked the bear - why, I don't know.
[quote=fastfreddy][quote]Next time, class yourself properly. End of story.[/quote]
Agreed - don't know why this thread needed so many handbags to get to here..........[/quote]
Because that simple quote was missing from the initial post that set off this whole retarded discussion.
And FWIW, I have no idea what a "QTP downpipe" is, nor what it means for it to be open. :confused: I certainly wouldn't expect a tech inspector, with who-knows-what vehicular expertise, to know what a "QTP downpipe" is, or to know that an OEM Subaru downpipe has a cat in it, or to know where any of the cats in a Subaru exhaust system are.
Pat
| KC | 01-31-2007 09:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16884245]Because that simple quote was missing from the initial post that set off this whole retarded discussion.[/QUOTE]
This is why, before jumping to ANY conclusions, I ASKED... there were no conclusions drawn yet by a simple asking of a question. Do you not get that?
So you're saying posts asking for some information should go...
Got cat? -> Yes -> Excellent. Great driving!
Got cat? -> No -> Change class.
Here's what happened in a simplistic way.
Got cat? -> this was my 1st rallly-x. 2wd means anything they want. And my co driver was holding a camera.
Got cat? -> No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? Not my fault. It's the organizers fault. Were you even there?
Boom.
Cover all the bases in the 1st post? Waste of time and can still be inferred to as I'm trying to dig up dirt by someone who wants to.
Is it such a novel concept to ASK, and then, based on the answer, then proceed?
It's very unlike me to even ask in the 1st place! I thought I was being NICE by even giving them a chance to say "Yes, there is one". :) (Which woulda resulted in a few attaboys!) However, the question was avoided, and then I was attacked because I asked a question.
Ask, and then form conclusions based on the answer. Don't assume they may or may not have one and form IF...THEN statement type of posts. That's totally and wholly ambiguous, not to mention total hindsight of the way it happened. Woulda...shoulda...coulda.
If I had known they didn't have one, would I have even asked? No. I would have come straight out and said "you were mis-classed because you didn't have a cat." End of story.
--kC
This is why, before jumping to ANY conclusions, I ASKED... there were no conclusions drawn yet by a simple asking of a question. Do you not get that?
So you're saying posts asking for some information should go...
Got cat? -> Yes -> Excellent. Great driving!
Got cat? -> No -> Change class.
Here's what happened in a simplistic way.
Got cat? -> this was my 1st rallly-x. 2wd means anything they want. And my co driver was holding a camera.
Got cat? -> No cats. I assume you are you gonna jump on me as being mis-classed? Not my fault. It's the organizers fault. Were you even there?
Boom.
Cover all the bases in the 1st post? Waste of time and can still be inferred to as I'm trying to dig up dirt by someone who wants to.
Is it such a novel concept to ASK, and then, based on the answer, then proceed?
It's very unlike me to even ask in the 1st place! I thought I was being NICE by even giving them a chance to say "Yes, there is one". :) (Which woulda resulted in a few attaboys!) However, the question was avoided, and then I was attacked because I asked a question.
Ask, and then form conclusions based on the answer. Don't assume they may or may not have one and form IF...THEN statement type of posts. That's totally and wholly ambiguous, not to mention total hindsight of the way it happened. Woulda...shoulda...coulda.
If I had known they didn't have one, would I have even asked? No. I would have come straight out and said "you were mis-classed because you didn't have a cat." End of story.
--kC
| Draken | 01-31-2007 10:48 PM |
I'm here for the gangbang!??!?!?!????!!???
All you n00bs and your arguing. tisk tisk.
ps: I finished 2nd overall at my first ever rallyx, beating Pat Richard. See how far that got me???
Chris H.
All you n00bs and your arguing. tisk tisk.
ps: I finished 2nd overall at my first ever rallyx, beating Pat Richard. See how far that got me???
Chris H.
| godfather2112 | 01-31-2007 11:12 PM |
sick track. I do believe that track is spun by pendelum, is it not? Sick video also
| njskatchmo | 01-31-2007 11:23 PM |
its not the fact that you were calling me out on a misclassificationt hat upset me. it was that you were accusing me of lying. I had no idea that cats had an effect on class. If you ask anyone who knows me well, im very honest. So, yes i understand it's the competitors responsibility to class myself, but when i show i have no idea what class i should be and i have shown a failure at that responsiblity. as organizers that responsiblity falls on teh organizers as a responsiblity to the other competitors. Next time trust me ill be sure to mention every nuance. But you are by no means helpful you've been hostile this whole time so do not claim the higher moral ground.
| S1MPSONS | 02-01-2007 05:40 AM |
[QUOTE=godfather2112;16887330]sick track. I do believe that track is spun by pendelum, is it not? Sick video also[/QUOTE]
"Slam" by Pendulum.
"Slam" by Pendulum.
| Sideshowbob | 02-01-2007 07:53 AM |
hey, nice run.
Is that car catless by chance?
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]
(:[/COLOR]
Is that car catless by chance?
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]
(:[/COLOR]
| Joshw | 02-01-2007 09:55 AM |
Mis-classed or not, you did well. Sure, there are people there to get points and win a series so, next time just enter your car in the most "Open" class possible even if it is stock. That way you won't piss anyone off when you beat them.
The problem with the Solo-fication of Rallyx classes by SCCA is that there end up being too many classes with rule limitations that do not equate to performance limitations. There should be AT MOST 4 classes:
2wd modified (including rally tires)
2wd stock (street tires)
4wd modified (including rally tires)
4wd stock (street tires)
Ideally, there would be only 1 class---run-what-you-brung---. Because honestly it doesn't matter what kind of car you show up with or what mods have been done. The Ones brothers consistently beat EVERYONE in Colorado in an early 1980's Izuzu I-mark Fwd with a 1.6l engine and $35 street tires.
I ran a rallyx series 4-5 years ago in a stock VW Golf with an AutoPower cage and placed first overall at a bunch of events. I was acused of cheating, having a super charger, fancy diff, etc etc. Didn't bother me a bit, I just kept showing up and winning.
The problem with the Solo-fication of Rallyx classes by SCCA is that there end up being too many classes with rule limitations that do not equate to performance limitations. There should be AT MOST 4 classes:
2wd modified (including rally tires)
2wd stock (street tires)
4wd modified (including rally tires)
4wd stock (street tires)
Ideally, there would be only 1 class---run-what-you-brung---. Because honestly it doesn't matter what kind of car you show up with or what mods have been done. The Ones brothers consistently beat EVERYONE in Colorado in an early 1980's Izuzu I-mark Fwd with a 1.6l engine and $35 street tires.
I ran a rallyx series 4-5 years ago in a stock VW Golf with an AutoPower cage and placed first overall at a bunch of events. I was acused of cheating, having a super charger, fancy diff, etc etc. Didn't bother me a bit, I just kept showing up and winning.
| KC | 02-01-2007 10:02 AM |
[QUOTE=Joshw;16890880]I ran a rallyx series 4-5 years ago in a stock VW Golf with an AutoPower cage and placed first overall at a bunch of events. I was acused of cheating, having a super charger, fancy diff, etc etc. Didn't bother me a bit, I just kept showing up and winning.[/QUOTE]There's a difference... you didn't have that stuff and classed yourself accordingly.
I still haven't heard from njskatchmo if he's got all the cats or not. He made a post trying to say that he has a stock exhaust after the catless DP. Stock != missing the 3rd/last cat.
--kC
I still haven't heard from njskatchmo if he's got all the cats or not. He made a post trying to say that he has a stock exhaust after the catless DP. Stock != missing the 3rd/last cat.
--kC
| Newt373 | 02-01-2007 10:26 AM |
[quote=RallyCat66;16867398]Funny thing is that RE-92's or similar were probably the right tire choice for this venue/conditions (oh geesh - did I just defend re-92s :confused: ). Very hard packed, frozen dirt that looked a lot like concrete in places. Cars were actually squealing tires on most of the corners. Any loose gravel got swept away and the surface did not dig up at all.
So, a decent all season stood a better than average chance against snow/aggressive tires. And I don't think anyone ran gravel tires - way too cold for them - and a proper snow rally tire wouldn't have helped because there was no snow to bite into.
Tim[/quote]
That explains (some) of my inability to stay on course!!! :lol: The WRs were great at Ascutney but horrible (fun!) at Stafford...
Newt
PS... Im not running out to get a set of RE92s
So, a decent all season stood a better than average chance against snow/aggressive tires. And I don't think anyone ran gravel tires - way too cold for them - and a proper snow rally tire wouldn't have helped because there was no snow to bite into.
Tim[/quote]
That explains (some) of my inability to stay on course!!! :lol: The WRs were great at Ascutney but horrible (fun!) at Stafford...
Newt
PS... Im not running out to get a set of RE92s
| KC | 02-01-2007 10:28 AM |
[QUOTE=Newt373;16891246]PS... Im not running out to get a set of RE92s[/QUOTE]Why not? :lol: You'd probably be able to find someone that'll pay YOU to take them. :D
| jcroy66 | 02-01-2007 10:41 AM |
Hey now. I'll have you know I didn't have to pay anyone to take my RE92s; they took them for free. I even found someone willing to come to MY house to pick them up!! :)
| leecea | 02-01-2007 12:43 PM |
Forget about discussing tires. Can't you guys go back to insulting each other? I'm getting bored :rolleyes:
| njskatchmo | 02-01-2007 12:52 PM |
[QUOTE=KC;16890964]There's a difference... you didn't have that stuff and classed yourself accordingly.
I still haven't heard from njskatchmo if he's got all the cats or not. He made a post trying to say that he has a stock exhaust after the catless DP. Stock != missing the 3rd/last cat.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I have no cats, I have a stock intermediate pipe and muffler. Meanign that as far as people are concerned my car seems stock by visuals. Yet, I made specific mention to the fact that my downpipe was not. Where are the cats? In the DP, hence to have a modified downpipe means missing atleast one cat and more often than not it means missing both cats. If I was asked teh simple question "Do you have cats?" I would say no, it's just that I didn't know cats would affect my classification and thus I failed to mention that I did not have cats, yet, it was obvious with the QTP open that there was something done to the DP (not to mention i specifically mentioned it). I got many people asking me about the DP as well as stares, So I'm pretty sure everyone knew what I had. I was not hiding anything and that's where I take offense. I did not purposefully deceive anyone. I simply did not know that Cats affected classification, I thought to say my downpipe was modified was enough. If Bellmouth downpipes vs divorced wastegate downpipes were in seperate classes and i said i have a aftermarket downpipe would it not be right to ask "Is it divorced or bell mouth?" That is where I draw my defense. It was clear I was new to the sport, clear I had no idea what class I should be in, and clear that there was a modification to my down pipe.
I still haven't heard from njskatchmo if he's got all the cats or not. He made a post trying to say that he has a stock exhaust after the catless DP. Stock != missing the 3rd/last cat.
--kC[/QUOTE]
I have no cats, I have a stock intermediate pipe and muffler. Meanign that as far as people are concerned my car seems stock by visuals. Yet, I made specific mention to the fact that my downpipe was not. Where are the cats? In the DP, hence to have a modified downpipe means missing atleast one cat and more often than not it means missing both cats. If I was asked teh simple question "Do you have cats?" I would say no, it's just that I didn't know cats would affect my classification and thus I failed to mention that I did not have cats, yet, it was obvious with the QTP open that there was something done to the DP (not to mention i specifically mentioned it). I got many people asking me about the DP as well as stares, So I'm pretty sure everyone knew what I had. I was not hiding anything and that's where I take offense. I did not purposefully deceive anyone. I simply did not know that Cats affected classification, I thought to say my downpipe was modified was enough. If Bellmouth downpipes vs divorced wastegate downpipes were in seperate classes and i said i have a aftermarket downpipe would it not be right to ask "Is it divorced or bell mouth?" That is where I draw my defense. It was clear I was new to the sport, clear I had no idea what class I should be in, and clear that there was a modification to my down pipe.
| Fred | 02-01-2007 01:46 PM |
Dude. Seriously. Why the eff are you still arguing about that? JUST IGNORE THEM. :rolleyes:
Those of us who know anything about rallyx know that it's not an issue; those who just like to argue are going to keep harassing you until you... well, they're never going to stop, because that's just what they do. :lol:
Those of us who know anything about rallyx know that it's not an issue; those who just like to argue are going to keep harassing you until you... well, they're never going to stop, because that's just what they do. :lol:
| KC | 02-01-2007 02:08 PM |
There are three cats on every 2002 WRX (all in green below).
[IMG]http://www.zerospec.com/imagesshop/algemeen_verzamelmap/Inlaat-uitlaatsyteemSubaruWRX/wrx-intake-exhaust-diagram-def.gif[/IMG]
1) PreCat on the uppipe
2) Front cat on the D/P
3) Rear Cat about 1 foot away from the D/P end.
I would find it really funny if you do, indeed still have that 3rd cat. Does your intermediate pipe start after the third cat or did it eliminate it and attach directly to the DP? Look under the car.. is there a bulge about 1 fott after the DP joins to the 'stock intermediate pipe'? A 'stock' intermediate pipe that eliminates the last cat, is not a stock intermediate pipe.
As far as you keep bringing up the tech inspectors and "they should have asked this/that" etc...
They're enthusiasts just like yourself. They don't know everything about every car. Heck, you could be one yourself at the next event (but I think you have to be a member)! :)
Case in point... can you name these off the top of your head?
1) How many cats on a '95 Volvo T5R?
2) How many cats on an '03 Mazdaspeed Protege?
3) How many cats on a '97 Ford Focus?
They check to make sure that your batteries are secure, that your wheel bearings are not shot, that you have decent tires, that you removed all the crap from inside the car, that you have brakes, etc.. all safety. That you have a number on your car. Just about it. :)
Fred: It's not harassing. It's education... just a little harder and more personal type of spoon feeding and hand holding. Some need this stuff spoon fed and laid out in a simple manner. When their ego and pride gets bruised, they refuse to let in any other alternatives or other suggestions. I was young once. I wish I had people to explain stuff to me in the 1st place instead of going through some of my life doing the wrong things over and over and over again.
I have a real funny feeling now, after reading that last post of his, that he really doesn't know what's been done or removed from his car because he keeps talking about 'his downpipe' and trying to make sure everyone knows about his downpipe. He clearly just cannot grasp that his downpipe isn't at issue.
--kC
[IMG]http://www.zerospec.com/imagesshop/algemeen_verzamelmap/Inlaat-uitlaatsyteemSubaruWRX/wrx-intake-exhaust-diagram-def.gif[/IMG]
1) PreCat on the uppipe
2) Front cat on the D/P
3) Rear Cat about 1 foot away from the D/P end.
I would find it really funny if you do, indeed still have that 3rd cat. Does your intermediate pipe start after the third cat or did it eliminate it and attach directly to the DP? Look under the car.. is there a bulge about 1 fott after the DP joins to the 'stock intermediate pipe'? A 'stock' intermediate pipe that eliminates the last cat, is not a stock intermediate pipe.
As far as you keep bringing up the tech inspectors and "they should have asked this/that" etc...
They're enthusiasts just like yourself. They don't know everything about every car. Heck, you could be one yourself at the next event (but I think you have to be a member)! :)
Case in point... can you name these off the top of your head?
1) How many cats on a '95 Volvo T5R?
2) How many cats on an '03 Mazdaspeed Protege?
3) How many cats on a '97 Ford Focus?
They check to make sure that your batteries are secure, that your wheel bearings are not shot, that you have decent tires, that you removed all the crap from inside the car, that you have brakes, etc.. all safety. That you have a number on your car. Just about it. :)
Fred: It's not harassing. It's education... just a little harder and more personal type of spoon feeding and hand holding. Some need this stuff spoon fed and laid out in a simple manner. When their ego and pride gets bruised, they refuse to let in any other alternatives or other suggestions. I was young once. I wish I had people to explain stuff to me in the 1st place instead of going through some of my life doing the wrong things over and over and over again.
I have a real funny feeling now, after reading that last post of his, that he really doesn't know what's been done or removed from his car because he keeps talking about 'his downpipe' and trying to make sure everyone knows about his downpipe. He clearly just cannot grasp that his downpipe isn't at issue.
--kC
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2007 02:35 PM |
catless, schmatless
�
�
WRX cats have a pesky habit of falling off, especially once the car is hoisted on a lift and owners start monkeying with the exhaust.
if you drop a cat, you get a CEL, but those are easily bypassed with a 1.5 ohm resistor bridged across the connector that used to plug into the cat. yadda yadda yadda...there is zero doubt that shedding a cat or three from a Rex exhaust wakes up the car. same for a gutted downpipe, reflashed ECU, etc etc. it's a recreational arms race.
this kind of "class warfare" is an inevitable outcome of SCCA's newly complicated rallyX classing system. tech inspectors need to bone up on common models and common mods or else this kind of stuff will get even worse.
OTOH, competitors need to help with self-policing their own cars and the cars of other racers. I am afeared that protest hassles will become as regular a part of rallyX as they are at AXes now.:(
if you drop a cat, you get a CEL, but those are easily bypassed with a 1.5 ohm resistor bridged across the connector that used to plug into the cat. yadda yadda yadda...there is zero doubt that shedding a cat or three from a Rex exhaust wakes up the car. same for a gutted downpipe, reflashed ECU, etc etc. it's a recreational arms race.
this kind of "class warfare" is an inevitable outcome of SCCA's newly complicated rallyX classing system. tech inspectors need to bone up on common models and common mods or else this kind of stuff will get even worse.
OTOH, competitors need to help with self-policing their own cars and the cars of other racers. I am afeared that protest hassles will become as regular a part of rallyX as they are at AXes now.:(
| KC | 02-01-2007 02:53 PM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16894965]I am afeared that protest hassles will become as regular a part of rallyX as they are at AXes now.:([/QUOTE]Common mis-conception spread by the rumor mill. Don't fear the rules.
Are you to tell me there aren't protests at Rally America events? Or Canadian Rally Championship events? Any automotive sport on a grand scale/national level will have them.
There are very few protests at autoxes, and I've never heard of one at a local level... ever. It usually is "oh, you did this? You need to be in the correct class next time." (Note for re-iteration: I asked a question 1st in this post before doing any accusing.. just like I'd do at a local event. "What have you done to the car.").
Protests happen at the National Level... and at that, infrequently. When you consider that there are 1200 competitors at National Championships and there were about 12 protests (some of them against the same car)... you do the math. Additionally, at the national level you would EXPECT everyone to be legal within the class.
Why do protests happen? More than likely, there's money on the line through contingencies, sponsorships, etc... and there was something done that was against the rules. A national championship or even a national trophy is not some light matter to win, no matter what sport.
Also, most of the time, the I's are dotted and the T's crossed before the protest is filed. Few and far between are there witch hunts.
There's nothing wrong with having rules that state "you need to do this, this and this." This way, it removes most ambiguity if a car was classed properly.
--kC
Are you to tell me there aren't protests at Rally America events? Or Canadian Rally Championship events? Any automotive sport on a grand scale/national level will have them.
There are very few protests at autoxes, and I've never heard of one at a local level... ever. It usually is "oh, you did this? You need to be in the correct class next time." (Note for re-iteration: I asked a question 1st in this post before doing any accusing.. just like I'd do at a local event. "What have you done to the car.").
Protests happen at the National Level... and at that, infrequently. When you consider that there are 1200 competitors at National Championships and there were about 12 protests (some of them against the same car)... you do the math. Additionally, at the national level you would EXPECT everyone to be legal within the class.
Why do protests happen? More than likely, there's money on the line through contingencies, sponsorships, etc... and there was something done that was against the rules. A national championship or even a national trophy is not some light matter to win, no matter what sport.
Also, most of the time, the I's are dotted and the T's crossed before the protest is filed. Few and far between are there witch hunts.
There's nothing wrong with having rules that state "you need to do this, this and this." This way, it removes most ambiguity if a car was classed properly.
--kC
| RB5 Clone | 02-01-2007 03:40 PM |
I can only remember a handful of official protests at regional and national events I've run in. There HAVE been a few "unofficial" protests, ususally hashed out in back of somebody's service truck or over a few beers after the rally's done.
maybe it's just my "I don't like SCCAl" mindset (still steamed at them for dumping rally) or maybe a hangover from road racing hassles.
well, here's hping that discussions like this one help start the rallyX community on a smoother road to understanding class structure and where the black and white (and gray) areas are in the rules.
maybe it's just my "I don't like SCCAl" mindset (still steamed at them for dumping rally) or maybe a hangover from road racing hassles.
well, here's hping that discussions like this one help start the rallyX community on a smoother road to understanding class structure and where the black and white (and gray) areas are in the rules.
| njskatchmo | 02-01-2007 03:47 PM |
I do not have the third cat I know very well that there are three. I have 0 cat's. I never said i had a single one. I never expected the tech to know every mod on every car, but to expect them to ask if I retained my cat would not be a fair fetched expectation since apparantly its common knowledge to all that cats change your class. I am done arguing with you, I was not lying and don't need to prove it to you. You insist on declaring that I was wrong in my actions when it was a situation that really doesn't require fault more so than just saying "next time be aware cats change your class, but good job anyway". If I say i know nothing about classing you should assume i know nothing and ask every question that makes a difference. Saying modified downpipe is unclear when there are different types of modicatiosn one can do to a downpipe. While yes in retrospect I understand i was unclear, because know i know differences in teh DP make a difference in class, at the time i was under the impression that a modified DP would count as a single mod I didn't think a cat made a difference. Thus I accept no fault for what happened, and I'm sorry KC had to turn this into an internet pissing match, next time ill be sure to never let my guard down and hopefully I can still enjoy myself.
(edit)
Just for a little clarificaiton I mean I retain the stock Cat back with an aftermarket full lenght dp, the two small sections of the DP are one in the QTP DP. Sorry for that misunderstaning.
(edit)
Just for a little clarificaiton I mean I retain the stock Cat back with an aftermarket full lenght dp, the two small sections of the DP are one in the QTP DP. Sorry for that misunderstaning.
| leecea | 02-01-2007 04:21 PM |
The thing that I find odd about autox, which I think is what scares the Rallyx people, is the expectation that rules are applied equally no matter the level of competition.
Sure we get the occasional person saying "doesn't matter at the local level" or "just ask around and see if anyone cares", but they usually don't prevail and people are made to feel like cheats for any infraction.
In other sports, it was common that rules would be applied more and more as you advanced in competitive level. I don't mean gross cheating - I mean the real detail oriented rules that most sports have. It wasn't up to the individual to negotiate for an exception, it was just that the general ethic was more relaxed at lower levels of the sport.
Maybe time is playing tricks on me and I'm not remembering it clearly, but I sure don't remember the endless debates about rules in any other sport.
Sure we get the occasional person saying "doesn't matter at the local level" or "just ask around and see if anyone cares", but they usually don't prevail and people are made to feel like cheats for any infraction.
In other sports, it was common that rules would be applied more and more as you advanced in competitive level. I don't mean gross cheating - I mean the real detail oriented rules that most sports have. It wasn't up to the individual to negotiate for an exception, it was just that the general ethic was more relaxed at lower levels of the sport.
Maybe time is playing tricks on me and I'm not remembering it clearly, but I sure don't remember the endless debates about rules in any other sport.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét