| Subisnob | 11-24-2015 05:40 AM |
[quote=Str8Gone;43976781]Im almost 33 and I think weight reduction is the best mod possible. my DD is gutted down to around 2780lbs. from 3085. I guess you dont like better handling, acceleration, braking, gas mileage :huh:[/quote]
Car handles just fine as is. Get better pads/rotors if they are a problem. Not concerned about gas mileage, if you are you should have bought a Prius.
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
[quote=DamnThatRevLimiter;43980825]You should get 4 extra 200 lbs passengers in your car and do a 0-60 test , then a braking test with all of them in the car . Make sure you have a stop watch to record it. Then test your car with out them . Then you might like weight reduction.
Reducing weight on our cars from 3k plus pounds if you have speakers and such down to sub 2850 the difference is very noticeable .
And doing safe mods that reduce weight can also increase MPGs if that is your focus , so be a little more open minded.[/quote]
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.
Car handles just fine as is. Get better pads/rotors if they are a problem. Not concerned about gas mileage, if you are you should have bought a Prius.
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
[quote=DamnThatRevLimiter;43980825]You should get 4 extra 200 lbs passengers in your car and do a 0-60 test , then a braking test with all of them in the car . Make sure you have a stop watch to record it. Then test your car with out them . Then you might like weight reduction.
Reducing weight on our cars from 3k plus pounds if you have speakers and such down to sub 2850 the difference is very noticeable .
And doing safe mods that reduce weight can also increase MPGs if that is your focus , so be a little more open minded.[/quote]
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.
| Uruchima | 11-24-2015 08:55 AM |
[quote=Subisnob;43980840]Car handles just fine as is. Get better pads/rotors if they are a problem. Not concerned about gas mileage, if you are you should have bought a Prius.
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.[/quote]
800lbs? How many wives are in the car? Wife carrier car? Lol
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.[/quote]
800lbs? How many wives are in the car? Wife carrier car? Lol
| bue car | 11-24-2015 10:50 AM |
Let's stay on topic, thanks!
| Scuby04STi | 11-24-2015 10:51 AM |
The reality of weight reduction is that 22lbs here 15lbs there starts to add up. I was just criticized by a friend for trimming off a few brackets that didn't weigh more than a pound each then pulling out my interior to remove sound insulation, then tossing out the speakers and so on. In the end I went from 3350 dry to 3038 with a full tank of gas (14gal ish @ 6+lbs per gal is around 85lbs) so that's like 400lbs lost with a little here and a little there. It all adds up.
| Uruchima | 11-24-2015 10:55 AM |
[quote=bue car;43981413]Let's stay on topic, thanks![/quote]
Lol quick intermission joke...
You have to remember also that 22 lbs was just the carpet...
I took out a lot of plastic components from throughout the car to make it all look nice. A few lbs maybe 3-4 but it does add up.
Lol quick intermission joke...
You have to remember also that 22 lbs was just the carpet...
I took out a lot of plastic components from throughout the car to make it all look nice. A few lbs maybe 3-4 but it does add up.
| DamnThatRevLimiter | 11-24-2015 04:42 PM |
[quote=Subisnob;43980840]Car handles just fine as is. Get better pads/rotors if they are a problem. Not concerned about gas mileage, if you are you should have bought a Prius.
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.[/quote]
http://bugeyegarage.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/track-bugeye-chan-mans-wrx-sti-type-ra-spec-c/
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-journals/65805-anorexicsti-05-sti-lightweight-w-full-interior-2660lbs-62-lbs-2598-a.html
I guess those guys got real close to taking 800 pounds away from their cars.
You mistake my being nice about my point for a weak argument. The point of this thread is to share ideas about weight reduction, don't like it don't post.
I'm averaging 18mpg:D
If I want better accel, I'd throw some performance mods and pro tune it.
Why so many heavy passengers? Dude stripped his carpet out to save 22lbs and now you are arguing about 800lbs...lmfao hahahaha I may have my wife in the car but that's it. I wouldn't drive like an ass with other passengers anyways. Your argument is terrible.[/quote]
http://bugeyegarage.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/track-bugeye-chan-mans-wrx-sti-type-ra-spec-c/
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-journals/65805-anorexicsti-05-sti-lightweight-w-full-interior-2660lbs-62-lbs-2598-a.html
I guess those guys got real close to taking 800 pounds away from their cars.
You mistake my being nice about my point for a weak argument. The point of this thread is to share ideas about weight reduction, don't like it don't post.
| DamnThatRevLimiter | 11-24-2015 05:00 PM |
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DlXiRoIqGpU
Mitsubishi must have wasted money to just save 8.8 pounds from the Aluminum roof on the Evo 8 MR . It's around 14 minutes in the video.
Now imagine adding the part you want for the 10-30 hp you want to gain but also losing the weight , you would be faster doing both.
Do the math on your power to weight ratio , add up how much power you want to gain , see what your new P2W
ratio is . How much weight loss will it take to achieve the same number?
Which path is cheaper?
Weight reduction makes sense , how far you take it is up to you.
Mitsubishi must have wasted money to just save 8.8 pounds from the Aluminum roof on the Evo 8 MR . It's around 14 minutes in the video.
Now imagine adding the part you want for the 10-30 hp you want to gain but also losing the weight , you would be faster doing both.
Do the math on your power to weight ratio , add up how much power you want to gain , see what your new P2W
ratio is . How much weight loss will it take to achieve the same number?
Which path is cheaper?
Weight reduction makes sense , how far you take it is up to you.
| Scuby04STi | 11-24-2015 07:12 PM |
[quote=DamnThatRevLimiter;43982895]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DlXiRoIqGpU
Mitsubishi must have wasted money to just save 8.8 pounds from the Aluminum roof on the Evo 8 MR . It's around 14 minutes in the video.
Now imagine adding the part you want for the 10-30 hp you want to gain but also losing the weight , you would be faster doing both.
Do the math on your power to weight ratio , add up how much power you want to gain , see what your new P2W
ratio is . How much weight loss will it take to achieve the same number?
Which path is cheaper?
Weight reduction makes sense , how far you take it is up to you.[/quote]
Plus of all the modifications it is the only one that benefits EVERY performance category. Adding power adds stress, reducing the drivetrain loss or general car weight however "free's up" power that is already there.
Mitsubishi must have wasted money to just save 8.8 pounds from the Aluminum roof on the Evo 8 MR . It's around 14 minutes in the video.
Now imagine adding the part you want for the 10-30 hp you want to gain but also losing the weight , you would be faster doing both.
Do the math on your power to weight ratio , add up how much power you want to gain , see what your new P2W
ratio is . How much weight loss will it take to achieve the same number?
Which path is cheaper?
Weight reduction makes sense , how far you take it is up to you.[/quote]
Plus of all the modifications it is the only one that benefits EVERY performance category. Adding power adds stress, reducing the drivetrain loss or general car weight however "free's up" power that is already there.
| aTarasZ | 11-24-2015 07:19 PM |
^^this. The only possible negative would be ride comfort, but that could be tuned with proper suspension settings.
Weight reduction benefits every performance aspect as it increases efficiency of any"kinetic" system.
Don't forget that where you take the weight from matters as well
Weight reduction benefits every performance aspect as it increases efficiency of any"kinetic" system.
Don't forget that where you take the weight from matters as well
| bue car | 11-24-2015 11:23 PM |
Diet and exercise work well to ;)
| aTarasZ | 11-24-2015 11:50 PM |
^^^this too
| Subisnob | 11-25-2015 09:19 AM |
[quote=DamnThatRevLimiter;43982832]http://bugeyegarage.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/track-bugeye-chan-mans-wrx-sti-type-ra-spec-c/
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-journals/65805-anorexicsti-05-sti-lightweight-w-full-interior-2660lbs-62-lbs-2598-a.html[/url]
I guess those guys got real close to taking 800 pounds away from their cars.
You mistake my being nice about my point for a weak argument. The point of this thread is to share ideas about weight reduction, don't like it don't post.[/quote]
Those are track cars. I got to ride my wife and kid around ya know.
All I was saying in my initial post was .... weight reduction versus practicality with a DD. That's it. You guys took what I said too far.;)
So, with that in mind, what would be practical as far as weight loss for a DD? First thing I think of is spare tire and smaller(narrow) wheels/tires.
[url]http://www.iwsti.com/forums/gd-members-journals/65805-anorexicsti-05-sti-lightweight-w-full-interior-2660lbs-62-lbs-2598-a.html[/url]
I guess those guys got real close to taking 800 pounds away from their cars.
You mistake my being nice about my point for a weak argument. The point of this thread is to share ideas about weight reduction, don't like it don't post.[/quote]
Those are track cars. I got to ride my wife and kid around ya know.
All I was saying in my initial post was .... weight reduction versus practicality with a DD. That's it. You guys took what I said too far.;)
So, with that in mind, what would be practical as far as weight loss for a DD? First thing I think of is spare tire and smaller(narrow) wheels/tires.
| vicious_fishes | 11-25-2015 09:45 AM |
[quote=Subisnob;43984275]Those are track cars. I got to ride my wife and kid around ya know.
All I was saying in my initial post was .... weight reduction versus practicality with a DD. That's it. You guys took what I said too far.;)
So, with that in mind, what would be practical as far as weight loss for a DD? First thing I think of is spare tire and smaller(narrow) wheels/tires.[/quote]
See my previous post just on stuff that can be removed ;)
Replace the under tray with a gen 3 legacy/outback one with holes drilled up the front for the mounting bolts. It mounts up perfectly. All that weight virtually for free.
After that - wheels/tyres are a big one. lightweight crank pulley is quite noticeable too. lightweight driveshaft is a huge winner.
You can remove almost 70kg from the car just in ripping junk out.
All I was saying in my initial post was .... weight reduction versus practicality with a DD. That's it. You guys took what I said too far.;)
So, with that in mind, what would be practical as far as weight loss for a DD? First thing I think of is spare tire and smaller(narrow) wheels/tires.[/quote]
See my previous post just on stuff that can be removed ;)
Replace the under tray with a gen 3 legacy/outback one with holes drilled up the front for the mounting bolts. It mounts up perfectly. All that weight virtually for free.
After that - wheels/tyres are a big one. lightweight crank pulley is quite noticeable too. lightweight driveshaft is a huge winner.
You can remove almost 70kg from the car just in ripping junk out.
| aTarasZ | 11-25-2015 11:10 AM |
You can lose most of the weight by removing things as vicious says but that usually includes things that make the car less practical for DD purposes like A/C, Seats, Stereo, etc.; especially if you're planning on carrying passengers.
The weight reduction you're probably looking for is going to cost you because it involves replacing existing parts with better, lightweight parts, thereby not losing any functionality, usually.
Look at rotating mass (driveshaft, wheels, pulley, etc.) as this will also increase drivetrain efficiency and you'll lose less power.
For "handling" start at the outsides of the car and work your way in. The further away from the bottom center of the chasis the weight is, the greater the impact. You can do things like replacing panels with carbon fiber alternatives, light-weight battery, aluminum bumper beams (your insurance company won't like these), racing seats
The weight reduction you're probably looking for is going to cost you because it involves replacing existing parts with better, lightweight parts, thereby not losing any functionality, usually.
Look at rotating mass (driveshaft, wheels, pulley, etc.) as this will also increase drivetrain efficiency and you'll lose less power.
For "handling" start at the outsides of the car and work your way in. The further away from the bottom center of the chasis the weight is, the greater the impact. You can do things like replacing panels with carbon fiber alternatives, light-weight battery, aluminum bumper beams (your insurance company won't like these), racing seats
| vicious_fishes | 11-25-2015 04:30 PM |
Look at the stuff i removed. No practicality lost.
| LIQUIDSK8S | 12-03-2015 09:22 AM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;43985795]Look at the stuff i removed. No practicality lost.[/quote]
Same for me, my focus was keeping practicality and dropping weight. So far I've cut around 450lbs, despite adding speakers/sound deadening/misc perf parts.
But like others said, this route is a lot more $$$.
Same for me, my focus was keeping practicality and dropping weight. So far I've cut around 450lbs, despite adding speakers/sound deadening/misc perf parts.
But like others said, this route is a lot more $$$.
| vicious_fishes | 12-03-2015 09:26 AM |
You've lost 450? Post up how my man!
| LIQUIDSK8S | 12-03-2015 12:11 PM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44004087]You've lost 450? Post up how my man![/quote]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2034801[/url]
Basically it assumes a starting weight of around 3,350 (STi drivetrain etc). Got it down to 2900lbs. I have another 20lbs to drop, but the 2900 didnt include the subwoofer/rear wing, so it should end up around 2910lbs wet with no driver.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2034801[/url]
Basically it assumes a starting weight of around 3,350 (STi drivetrain etc). Got it down to 2900lbs. I have another 20lbs to drop, but the 2900 didnt include the subwoofer/rear wing, so it should end up around 2910lbs wet with no driver.
| vicious_fishes | 12-03-2015 01:06 PM |
[quote=LIQUIDSK8S;44004618][url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2034801[/url]
Basically it assumes a starting weight of around 3,350 (STi drivetrain etc). Got it down to 2900lbs. I have another 20lbs to drop, but the 2900 didnt include the subwoofer/rear wing, so it should end up around 2910lbs wet with no driver.[/quote]
ahh that makes more sense (assuming 3350 starting).
i'm currently just doing this:
[IMG]http://s14.postimg.org/87jooum6p/12334412_1138604492824078_1567423818_o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://s14.postimg.org/6h0nnd4nl/12334193_1138423052842222_207779340_o.jpg[/IMG]
as you can see I've gutted the trunk, but I still want some semblance of practicality, so the alloy sheet has gone over where the spare used to be and I'm coating the entire boot in dynamat superlite, as well as the centre alloy sheet (1mm thick so weighs very little), parcel shelf and I've cut the side gussets out of the trunklid so I can put a layer on there too.
obviously full weight savings would just ditch the lot, but I want to retain usage of the trunk and the noise is just unbearable with a decent exhaust (or without one tbh, the road noise is pretty bad) so we'll see how well it works.
Basically it assumes a starting weight of around 3,350 (STi drivetrain etc). Got it down to 2900lbs. I have another 20lbs to drop, but the 2900 didnt include the subwoofer/rear wing, so it should end up around 2910lbs wet with no driver.[/quote]
ahh that makes more sense (assuming 3350 starting).
i'm currently just doing this:
[IMG]http://s14.postimg.org/87jooum6p/12334412_1138604492824078_1567423818_o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://s14.postimg.org/6h0nnd4nl/12334193_1138423052842222_207779340_o.jpg[/IMG]
as you can see I've gutted the trunk, but I still want some semblance of practicality, so the alloy sheet has gone over where the spare used to be and I'm coating the entire boot in dynamat superlite, as well as the centre alloy sheet (1mm thick so weighs very little), parcel shelf and I've cut the side gussets out of the trunklid so I can put a layer on there too.
obviously full weight savings would just ditch the lot, but I want to retain usage of the trunk and the noise is just unbearable with a decent exhaust (or without one tbh, the road noise is pretty bad) so we'll see how well it works.
| funk32 | 12-03-2015 07:50 PM |
I have done a few things, goal is ~3000lbs wet with driver. Not sure the weight as it stands at the moment I didn't get a chance to weigh it before it was put away.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/xpjcvG][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5739/20610889958_66b7f01abd.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/xpjcvG][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/p5noCH][img]https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15145645137_cce331993b.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/v8QqCf][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/264/19123009958_54ab269dcd.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/qSEs1y][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8751/16325888984_04977ae1c0.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/qSErs9][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8713/16325887104_4d172931e7.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/pMmDfD][img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3943/15609475541_54839dfb20.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BmXkUp][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/752/23209614915_2a996e7cb2.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/AajWcm][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5650/22421672906_cd6ba71015.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/bEkXSL][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/6997489620_0367a6daab.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/bEkXSL]msi%20cf%20roof[/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/xpjcvG][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5739/20610889958_66b7f01abd.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/xpjcvG][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/p5noCH][img]https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2943/15145645137_cce331993b.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/v8QqCf][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/264/19123009958_54ab269dcd.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/qSEs1y][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8751/16325888984_04977ae1c0.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/qSErs9][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8713/16325887104_4d172931e7.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/pMmDfD][img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3943/15609475541_54839dfb20.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BmXkUp][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/752/23209614915_2a996e7cb2.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://flic.kr/p/AajWcm][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5650/22421672906_cd6ba71015.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/bEkXSL][img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/6997489620_0367a6daab.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/bEkXSL]msi%20cf%20roof[/url]
| vicious_fishes | 12-03-2015 10:31 PM |
I REALLY want those tssfab subframes but just can't justify the outlay :(
| funk32 | 12-04-2015 06:43 AM |
Only the transmission frame is made by tssfab, everything else is made by MSI.
| Scuby04STi | 12-04-2015 11:09 AM |
[quote=funk32;44006775]Only the transmission frame is made by tssfab, everything else is made by MSI.[/quote]
Didn't know he offered the tranny mount, you know the weight savings?
Didn't know he offered the tranny mount, you know the weight savings?
| vicious_fishes | 12-04-2015 03:36 PM |
Tss does do a front crossmember though
| funk32 | 12-04-2015 07:37 PM |
[quote=Scuby04STi;44007408]Didn't know he offered the tranny mount, you know the weight savings?[/quote]
I had it written down long ago, sorry I have moved and all the little notes are misplaced lol. He only made a few since for some reason each year and sometime car to car on the same year there were large differences in the mounting point measurements.
[quote=vicious_fishes;44008313]Tss does do a front crossmember though[/quote]
yes he did, I had it at one point. TSSFAB hasn't made parts in a long while though...
I had it written down long ago, sorry I have moved and all the little notes are misplaced lol. He only made a few since for some reason each year and sometime car to car on the same year there were large differences in the mounting point measurements.
[quote=vicious_fishes;44008313]Tss does do a front crossmember though[/quote]
yes he did, I had it at one point. TSSFAB hasn't made parts in a long while though...
| vicious_fishes | 12-04-2015 10:38 PM |
don't still have it do you? i want one but just... won't spend the money haha.
| funk32 | 12-04-2015 10:43 PM |
lol no sorry it was sold locally.
| funk32 | 12-04-2015 10:46 PM |
here is a little fun pic for ya Vicious
before the MSI frame and other work..
[url=https://flic.kr/p/ptwgYJ][img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3931/15407658166_5bdb0d001a_b.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/ptwgYJ]Edmonton-20141003-00539[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]David[/url], on Flickr
before the MSI frame and other work..
[url=https://flic.kr/p/ptwgYJ][img]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3931/15407658166_5bdb0d001a_b.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/ptwgYJ]Edmonton-20141003-00539[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]David[/url], on Flickr
| vicious_fishes | 12-05-2015 01:39 AM |
nice... oswald subframe completely unnecessary though. could save a fair bit of weight removing that :p
| funk32 | 12-05-2015 06:45 AM |
Don't worry it is no longer mounted as the MSI frame does not allow it.
| Scuby04STi | 12-05-2015 08:12 AM |
[quote=funk32;44008848]I had it written down long ago, sorry I have moved and all the little notes are misplaced lol. He only made a few since for some reason each year and sometime car to car on the same year there were large differences in the mounting point measurements.
yes he did, I had it at one point. TSSFAB hasn't made parts in a long while though...[/quote]
Yeah I think I was one of the lucky ones to get my order before he shifted focus into building a new shop (got my stuff last winter). Last I heard he halted orders until he had a better set-up. I'll likely just build my own for the tranny if he doesn't get back to building parts soon. But I prefer to go to TSS that guy does some good work.
What made you switch to the MSI stuff? I took a look at them too.
yes he did, I had it at one point. TSSFAB hasn't made parts in a long while though...[/quote]
Yeah I think I was one of the lucky ones to get my order before he shifted focus into building a new shop (got my stuff last winter). Last I heard he halted orders until he had a better set-up. I'll likely just build my own for the tranny if he doesn't get back to building parts soon. But I prefer to go to TSS that guy does some good work.
What made you switch to the MSI stuff? I took a look at them too.
| funk32 | 12-05-2015 08:58 AM |
They are a few things that made me want to switch,
1) The finish is a lot better,
2) The frames are actually stress tested before being released,
3) Use CNC cut tubing and CNC billet parts (every frame is the same),
4) Built in Canada (gotta support home parts if they are worth it),
5) He stands by his parts 100%.
I have used every frame TSSFAB made, and have ordered sets for other local people, But my last dealings with have left a bad taste in my mouth so I will no long recommend them as a good budget frame. That is as far as I want to take it on a public forum.
With the crappy Canadian dollar you guys should be able to snatch up MSI parts for a good price these days.
1) The finish is a lot better,
2) The frames are actually stress tested before being released,
3) Use CNC cut tubing and CNC billet parts (every frame is the same),
4) Built in Canada (gotta support home parts if they are worth it),
5) He stands by his parts 100%.
I have used every frame TSSFAB made, and have ordered sets for other local people, But my last dealings with have left a bad taste in my mouth so I will no long recommend them as a good budget frame. That is as far as I want to take it on a public forum.
With the crappy Canadian dollar you guys should be able to snatch up MSI parts for a good price these days.
| bue car | 12-05-2015 05:27 PM |
ill be getting some soon I noticed my front frame from my swap was in a little accident, I don't want to risk it being bent.
| Matt, | 12-06-2015 12:26 PM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;43832502]necropost i know, but here's how much stuff can just be REMOVED, not replaced with lighter components, just REMOVED from the car without any real effect on practicality at all:
[IMG]http://s12.postimg.org/o4ok87ogd/008.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
Does the small bracket in front of the spare tire cover the back section of the driveshaft? Are there any negative effects in removing that?
My poor fitting Invidia catback rattles against it and is driving me crazy..
[IMG]http://s12.postimg.org/o4ok87ogd/008.jpg[/IMG][/quote]
Does the small bracket in front of the spare tire cover the back section of the driveshaft? Are there any negative effects in removing that?
My poor fitting Invidia catback rattles against it and is driving me crazy..
| bue car | 12-06-2015 01:52 PM |
It's to protect the connection, if you don't off road or run things over, you should be ok...
| Matt, | 12-06-2015 02:09 PM |
[quote=bue car;44011730]It's to protect the connection, if you don't off road or run things over, you should be ok...[/quote]
Thanks dude!
Thanks dude!
| Scuby04STi | 12-07-2015 02:09 PM |
So I thought I would just add this as I did some weight reduction over the weekend, I will update a few other weights of things as I get their replacement parts back from coating. Also clearly the bushings are not for weight reduction, just felt it more simple to copy my post from my thread.
[quote=Scuby04STi;44014259]Had a relatively productive weekend between recording weights of a few parts and removing the rear spare tire area from the car as well as a few other little things:
First was the Steering rack bushings:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BM2M47][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/705/23482075872_fd8f72c08f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BM2M47]IMG_20151202_163859018[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Clearly these where due for replacement. LOL
Then came some weight reduction, pulled off the rear bumper beam as well as the front "U" brace (both not going back on car).
Rear Beam 28.3lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tm1][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/575/22962433044_c8dfed4c5f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tm1]IMG_20151202_160545982[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Front "U" brace 24.4lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjASy][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5780/23564573996_919e3f7fd8_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjASy]IMG_20151202_160843259_TOP[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Then I moved onto the charcoal canister in the rear 7.8lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Buuy5C][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5821/23294919820_91e17dd483_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/Buuy5C]IMG_20151203_123239436[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Finally I was able to find the time to Cut out that rear spare area so I can replace it with some aluminum sheet:
Before:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tR9][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5699/22962434734_3feb8b6b20_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tR9]IMG_20151206_102201104[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
After:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBAh][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/774/23564576416_615ef067ae_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBAh]IMG_20151206_113144606[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Cut out sections weight 14.6lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBRh][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5726/23564577286_cc079ac173_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBRh]IMG_20151206_113057933[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Overall I permanently removed 75.1lbs . . . clearly I will need to add the aluminum plate so it will likely be closer to 70lbs lost after adding that back but I will record that once I have it built.[/quote]
[quote=Scuby04STi;44014259]Had a relatively productive weekend between recording weights of a few parts and removing the rear spare tire area from the car as well as a few other little things:
First was the Steering rack bushings:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BM2M47][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/705/23482075872_fd8f72c08f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BM2M47]IMG_20151202_163859018[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Clearly these where due for replacement. LOL
Then came some weight reduction, pulled off the rear bumper beam as well as the front "U" brace (both not going back on car).
Rear Beam 28.3lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tm1][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/575/22962433044_c8dfed4c5f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tm1]IMG_20151202_160545982[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Front "U" brace 24.4lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjASy][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5780/23564573996_919e3f7fd8_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjASy]IMG_20151202_160843259_TOP[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Then I moved onto the charcoal canister in the rear 7.8lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Buuy5C][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5821/23294919820_91e17dd483_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/Buuy5C]IMG_20151203_123239436[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Finally I was able to find the time to Cut out that rear spare area so I can replace it with some aluminum sheet:
Before:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tR9][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5699/22962434734_3feb8b6b20_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/AZ7tR9]IMG_20151206_102201104[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
After:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBAh][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/774/23564576416_615ef067ae_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBAh]IMG_20151206_113144606[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Cut out sections weight 14.6lbs:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBRh][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5726/23564577286_cc079ac173_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BUjBRh]IMG_20151206_113057933[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Overall I permanently removed 75.1lbs . . . clearly I will need to add the aluminum plate so it will likely be closer to 70lbs lost after adding that back but I will record that once I have it built.[/quote]
| Str8Gone | 12-07-2015 04:03 PM |
Any issues with removing the charcoal box? CEL? you just added a filter and thats it??
| ScoobyJD | 12-07-2015 04:25 PM |
I have done the same and i am curious exactly which codes need to be deleted from the ecu.
| Scuby04STi | 12-07-2015 05:21 PM |
[quote=Str8Gone;44014648]Any issues with removing the charcoal box? CEL? you just added a filter and thats it??[/quote]
Car is down for the winter, its getting new subframes and a re-gear so I'll know more after I bring it back to life this spring.
I just deleted it and tossed a breather filter on the vent line as well as a one way valve to keep the tank sealed until it actually needs to vent.
From talking to my tuner there won't be any issues that he can't clear.
Car is down for the winter, its getting new subframes and a re-gear so I'll know more after I bring it back to life this spring.
I just deleted it and tossed a breather filter on the vent line as well as a one way valve to keep the tank sealed until it actually needs to vent.
From talking to my tuner there won't be any issues that he can't clear.
| ScoobyJD | 12-07-2015 05:35 PM |
I added a crankcase filter to mine but i think i may even delete that and go with a one way gas cap like i did on my 94 k1500 after deleting emissions
| bue car | 12-07-2015 09:15 PM |
See here fellas
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538954&highlight=evap+removal[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538954&highlight=evap+removal[/url]
| Scuby04STi | 12-07-2015 10:05 PM |
[quote=bue car;44015529]See here fellas
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538954&highlight=evap+removal[/url][/quote]
Exactly the thread I referred to when I did it to mine. Lol
I mostly wanted to post the weight seeing people always seem to say the canister/related parts weight is 3lbs.
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538954&highlight=evap+removal[/url][/quote]
Exactly the thread I referred to when I did it to mine. Lol
I mostly wanted to post the weight seeing people always seem to say the canister/related parts weight is 3lbs.
| ScoobyJD | 12-08-2015 02:16 AM |
Wish they would have said which codes to delete in that thread. I got the tactrix cable specifically for this but cant figure out or find which codes exactly should be disabled.
| vicious_fishes | 12-09-2015 11:27 PM |
i'm really skeptical about this chopping the spare tyre well out business. surely it just turns the rear bumper into a giant parachute?
| Psychoreo | 12-09-2015 11:31 PM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44021815]i'm really skeptical about this chopping the spare tyre well out business. surely it just turns the rear bumper into a giant parachute?[/quote]
Holes or a diffuser
Holes or a diffuser
| aTarasZ | 12-10-2015 03:38 AM |
I would recommend reading the entire post. You're right that it would act like a "parachute" if it were left open, but that's not the plan. Look again.
| vicious_fishes | 12-10-2015 07:27 AM |
you say "replace it with some aluminium sheet. but there's nowhere to mount the sheet low enough to stop overhang of the bumper, unless i'm missing something? even the stock well hangs down past the bottom of the chassis rails and there's STILL part of the bumper hanging below it?
edit: oh i see, you've chopped a large portion of the rear wall out.
edit: oh i see, you've chopped a large portion of the rear wall out.
| Scuby04STi | 12-10-2015 11:01 AM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44022153]you say "replace it with some aluminium sheet. but there's nowhere to mount the sheet low enough to stop overhang of the bumper, unless i'm missing something? even the stock well hangs down past the bottom of the chassis rails and there's STILL part of the bumper hanging below it?
edit: oh i see, you've chopped a large portion of the rear wall out.[/quote]
And plan to chop that last little bit on the left you see in my picture. I am going to be trying to get an exhaust made and when doing so want to tuck the exhaust up higher and have it come out the middle of the bumper height wise (just to the left of the license plate) and if that all goes well I will trim the lower section of the bumper and build a diffuser.
I looked at everything a few times and shouldn't have an issue other than rationalizing the cost of some of this after some already large expenses. (ill post up more picture of that stuff here once they upload)
edit: oh i see, you've chopped a large portion of the rear wall out.[/quote]
And plan to chop that last little bit on the left you see in my picture. I am going to be trying to get an exhaust made and when doing so want to tuck the exhaust up higher and have it come out the middle of the bumper height wise (just to the left of the license plate) and if that all goes well I will trim the lower section of the bumper and build a diffuser.
I looked at everything a few times and shouldn't have an issue other than rationalizing the cost of some of this after some already large expenses. (ill post up more picture of that stuff here once they upload)
| Scuby04STi | 12-10-2015 12:15 PM |
Here is one of my major expenses for the car, well worth it in the end IMO with all the different benefits of these products. Just might limit the rest of my spending for this winter.
[quote=Scuby04STi;44022854]Ok so I got my TSS FAB stuff back from coating, happy with how it all came out. Overall it came to a loss of 37.4lbs
I recorded the weights for the OEM and the TSS FAB parts for reference. Not everything drops weight, the trailing arms actually weigh twice as much as OEM but this was pointed out to me by them when I first looked into these parts. Hard not to just get it all with how Bitchen everything the make looks, sad it will all be hidden soon.
OEM front sub frame (32.9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BAeVRC][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5751/23359965370_c4d0dafe8a_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BAeVRC]IMG_20151202_163023764[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM rear sub frame (w/lateral links 38.6lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C13E2L][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5696/23629361806_c75f992250_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C13E2L]IMG_20151202_161055319[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM T-bar (27lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/B5QMe1][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5708/23027270374_29594c369b_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/B5QMe1]IMG_20151202_161546353[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM trailing arms (w/mounts 4.4lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BAdRAW][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/659/23359755950_1c8203d120_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BAdRAW]IMG_20151202_161258208[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Total of 102.9lbs
Now for the TSS FAB stuff.
TSS FAB front sub frame (20.9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KzC][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/767/23629575586_d19455ca0f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KzC]IMG_20151209_144012899[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS FAB rear sub frame (w/lateral links 23.5lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KSS][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/664/23629576586_2aaee21b98_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KSS]IMG_20151209_144607719_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS T-bar (12.1lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BtRxQH][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5622/23287699869_bf52bb8083_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BtRxQH]IMG_20151209_143850677_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS trailing arms (w/mounts 9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C3nojx][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5727/23655649075_552ac661f5_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C3nojx]IMG_20151209_144231290_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Total 65.5lbs :D
Over view with TSS on the left and OEM on the right:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KMG][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/23629576286_a36570f2bb_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KMG]IMG_20151209_151508684[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Overall I am happy with the product as well as the weight savings. Yes cost per pound is high but with these frames there are other benefits such as the 1" drop correction on the pick-up points, the added stiffness of not only the physical frames but in the lack of bushings (all hard mounted/heim joints). The OEM T-bar uses SOFT mounting bushings, OEM lateral links also had relatively soft bushings that change is something I was specifically looking forward too.[/quote]
[quote=Scuby04STi;44022854]Ok so I got my TSS FAB stuff back from coating, happy with how it all came out. Overall it came to a loss of 37.4lbs
I recorded the weights for the OEM and the TSS FAB parts for reference. Not everything drops weight, the trailing arms actually weigh twice as much as OEM but this was pointed out to me by them when I first looked into these parts. Hard not to just get it all with how Bitchen everything the make looks, sad it will all be hidden soon.
OEM front sub frame (32.9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BAeVRC][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5751/23359965370_c4d0dafe8a_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BAeVRC]IMG_20151202_163023764[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM rear sub frame (w/lateral links 38.6lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C13E2L][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5696/23629361806_c75f992250_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C13E2L]IMG_20151202_161055319[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM T-bar (27lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/B5QMe1][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5708/23027270374_29594c369b_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/B5QMe1]IMG_20151202_161546353[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
OEM trailing arms (w/mounts 4.4lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BAdRAW][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/659/23359755950_1c8203d120_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BAdRAW]IMG_20151202_161258208[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Total of 102.9lbs
Now for the TSS FAB stuff.
TSS FAB front sub frame (20.9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KzC][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/767/23629575586_d19455ca0f_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KzC]IMG_20151209_144012899[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS FAB rear sub frame (w/lateral links 23.5lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KSS][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/664/23629576586_2aaee21b98_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KSS]IMG_20151209_144607719_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS T-bar (12.1lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/BtRxQH][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5622/23287699869_bf52bb8083_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/BtRxQH]IMG_20151209_143850677_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
TSS trailing arms (w/mounts 9lbs):
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C3nojx][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5727/23655649075_552ac661f5_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C3nojx]IMG_20151209_144231290_HDR[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Total 65.5lbs :D
Over view with TSS on the left and OEM on the right:
[url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KMG][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/23629576286_a36570f2bb_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/C14KMG]IMG_20151209_151508684[/url] by [url=https:[email�protected]/]Bret Stevens[/url], on Flickr
Overall I am happy with the product as well as the weight savings. Yes cost per pound is high but with these frames there are other benefits such as the 1" drop correction on the pick-up points, the added stiffness of not only the physical frames but in the lack of bushings (all hard mounted/heim joints). The OEM T-bar uses SOFT mounting bushings, OEM lateral links also had relatively soft bushings that change is something I was specifically looking forward too.[/quote]
| vicious_fishes | 12-10-2015 01:16 PM |
That's some seriously nice kit.
As I said previously, I've wanted the front subframe for QUITE some time but just haven't been able to justify the cost.
As I said previously, I've wanted the front subframe for QUITE some time but just haven't been able to justify the cost.
| Scuby04STi | 12-10-2015 01:32 PM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44023075]That's some seriously nice kit.
As I said previously, I've wanted the front subframe for QUITE some time but just haven't been able to justify the cost.[/quote]
100% understandable, at least now you know the weight savings. Previously I was told not to bother with the front sub frame that it didn't save weight, 12lbs later. LOL
As I said previously, I've wanted the front subframe for QUITE some time but just haven't been able to justify the cost.[/quote]
100% understandable, at least now you know the weight savings. Previously I was told not to bother with the front sub frame that it didn't save weight, 12lbs later. LOL
| vicious_fishes | 12-11-2015 01:02 AM |
Oh I just want it for the roll centre correction. The weight savings are secondary. They'd actually be even higher if you got the model without the U frame mounts.
unfortunately the exchange rate has turned against us here in aussieland and you get slammed with about $500 worth of import duties if you buy one too, so it's the best part of $2000 for me to buy.
On the very rare occasion one comes up 2nd hand over here it pretty much sells instantly.
unfortunately the exchange rate has turned against us here in aussieland and you get slammed with about $500 worth of import duties if you buy one too, so it's the best part of $2000 for me to buy.
On the very rare occasion one comes up 2nd hand over here it pretty much sells instantly.
| funk32 | 12-11-2015 09:20 AM |
[quote=Scuby04STi;44023122]100% understandable, at least now you know the weight savings. Previously I was told not to bother with the front sub frame that it didn't save weight, 12lbs later. LOL[/quote]
nice work, I should have done this, but the weight should be close minus the t-bar since the MSI circuit frame deletes it.
Thanks for the numbers
nice work, I should have done this, but the weight should be close minus the t-bar since the MSI circuit frame deletes it.
Thanks for the numbers
| Scuby04STi | 12-11-2015 09:40 AM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44024912]Oh I just want it for the roll centre correction. The weight savings are secondary. [B]They'd actually be even higher if you got the model without the U frame mounts. [/B]
unfortunately the exchange rate has turned against us here in aussieland and you get slammed with about $500 worth of import duties if you buy one too, so it's the best part of $2000 for me to buy.
On the very rare occasion one comes up 2nd hand over here it pretty much sells instantly.[/quote]
Really? From what I gathered the U-frame mounts are an add on.
Happy to help Funk32, in reality all that matters is what the weight/corner weights are when everything is done and the driver is in the car.
unfortunately the exchange rate has turned against us here in aussieland and you get slammed with about $500 worth of import duties if you buy one too, so it's the best part of $2000 for me to buy.
On the very rare occasion one comes up 2nd hand over here it pretty much sells instantly.[/quote]
Really? From what I gathered the U-frame mounts are an add on.
Happy to help Funk32, in reality all that matters is what the weight/corner weights are when everything is done and the driver is in the car.
| vicious_fishes | 12-11-2015 11:26 PM |
[quote=Scuby04STi;44025330]Really? From what I gathered the U-frame mounts are an add on.
Happy to help Funk32, in reality all that matters is what the weight/corner weights are when everything is done and the driver is in the car.[/quote]
Oh i meant the weight savings would be higher, not the roll centre :lol:
Happy to help Funk32, in reality all that matters is what the weight/corner weights are when everything is done and the driver is in the car.[/quote]
Oh i meant the weight savings would be higher, not the roll centre :lol:
| tomferd | 12-12-2015 12:05 AM |
[quote=vicious_fishes;44021815]i'm really skeptical about this chopping the spare tyre well out business. surely it just turns the rear bumper into a giant parachute?[/quote]
[quote=Psychoreo;44021829]Holes or a diffuser[/quote]
This is a misnomer and not actually how aerodynamics work. I don't know the specific aerodynamic tendencies of every car, but when you add holes to a rear bumper, you generally increase drag. It is for the same reason a circular canopy parachute will actually fall faster without a hole in the middle. The vortices created from tumbling air in the pocket that used to hold the spare tire well will alleviate most of the potential drag. However holes in the bumper will destroy the vortices, slamming most of the air flowing under the car into the rear bumper instead of riding the vortex past it. However, the vortices formed will make it loud back there, so be prepared to deal with that. An undertray/diffuser is the best solution.
[quote=Psychoreo;44021829]Holes or a diffuser[/quote]
This is a misnomer and not actually how aerodynamics work. I don't know the specific aerodynamic tendencies of every car, but when you add holes to a rear bumper, you generally increase drag. It is for the same reason a circular canopy parachute will actually fall faster without a hole in the middle. The vortices created from tumbling air in the pocket that used to hold the spare tire well will alleviate most of the potential drag. However holes in the bumper will destroy the vortices, slamming most of the air flowing under the car into the rear bumper instead of riding the vortex past it. However, the vortices formed will make it loud back there, so be prepared to deal with that. An undertray/diffuser is the best solution.
| aTarasZ | 12-12-2015 12:13 AM |
Good point. Actually Mythbusters did an excellent bit about exactly that as it pertains to pick-up trucks and "bed covers" and their tailgates being up/down. If I recall, they found having the tailgate up when no cover was present actually produced less drag than having it open (except off the line,;up to 15 mph or something)
They do a great job explaining tomferd's point using underwater "stream tracing" (for lack of a better term). Same as they do with aerodynamic measurements but with water, so whatever that's called.
They do a great job explaining tomferd's point using underwater "stream tracing" (for lack of a better term). Same as they do with aerodynamic measurements but with water, so whatever that's called.
| vicious_fishes | 12-12-2015 02:10 AM |
[quote=aTarasZ;44027323]Good point. Actually Mythbusters did an excellent bit about exactly that as it pertains to pick-up trucks and "bed covers" and their tailgates being up/down. If I recall, they found having the tailgate up when no cover was present actually produced less drag than having it open (except off the line,;up to 15 mph or something)
They do a great job explaining tomferd's point using underwater "stream tracing" (for lack of a better term). Same as they do with aerodynamic measurements but with water, so whatever that's called.[/quote]
yes but that's aerodynamic drag, there's no mention of downforce or lift in it.
and the most aerodynamic thing for a pickup is to have a cover over the tray ;)
They do a great job explaining tomferd's point using underwater "stream tracing" (for lack of a better term). Same as they do with aerodynamic measurements but with water, so whatever that's called.[/quote]
yes but that's aerodynamic drag, there's no mention of downforce or lift in it.
and the most aerodynamic thing for a pickup is to have a cover over the tray ;)
| aTarasZ | 12-12-2015 02:18 AM |
It's been a long time since I've seen it. But the point was in fact that having the cover on had adverse effects on the aerodynamics as it created turbulence. Having the cover off at "higher" speeds created a vortex within the bed causing air that was passing over the cab to deflect straight over and never"touch" the bed/tailgate allowing better aerodynamics.
Keep in mind a lot of this is heavily dependent on the specifics of every make and model of car, truck, whatever. The overarching picture is that closing off "pockets" ( or in this case parachutes) does NOT necessarily improve aerodynamics
Keep in mind a lot of this is heavily dependent on the specifics of every make and model of car, truck, whatever. The overarching picture is that closing off "pockets" ( or in this case parachutes) does NOT necessarily improve aerodynamics
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