| HoRo1 | 04-06-2003 03:00 PM |
Brazil GP FARCE
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AN INSULT TO RACE FANS.
(A) the true winner is "awarded" second
(B) VERY poorly and dangerously organised
(A) the true winner is "awarded" second
(B) VERY poorly and dangerously organised
| AustinTX | 04-06-2003 03:06 PM |
That was quite a mess, I agree.
| Patrick L | 04-06-2003 03:07 PM |
That's racing, sh** happens.
I am glad to see that Alonso is ok. That was a big hit. He probably did see the warnings when he came up to front straight. If you look, you can see everyone else slower down.
I am glad to see that Alonso is ok. That was a big hit. He probably did see the warnings when he came up to front straight. If you look, you can see everyone else slower down.
| Fred Zaplitny | 04-06-2003 03:30 PM |
Alonso may be ok, but if he suffered a broken leg we won't be seeing him in a car for a while.
As for the race, I agree Fissi should have been declared the winner, because he was. Unfortunately, the FIA rules don't say so. Stupid rule if you ask me. If somebody can please explain the logic by which the race leader at the end of a race is not the victor, I would appreciate it.
:confused: :mad:
As for the race, I agree Fissi should have been declared the winner, because he was. Unfortunately, the FIA rules don't say so. Stupid rule if you ask me. If somebody can please explain the logic by which the race leader at the end of a race is not the victor, I would appreciate it.
:confused: :mad:
| Orion | 04-06-2003 03:38 PM |
So by Article 154 if YOU are the reason the red flag came out but you were in the lead 2 laps earlier, you'd still be the winner???:confused:
Whatever. Yet another stupid rule the FIA has. I will say that I've never been so excited to watch races, but to see a team get robbed like that is just ridiculous.
Whatever. Yet another stupid rule the FIA has. I will say that I've never been so excited to watch races, but to see a team get robbed like that is just ridiculous.
| gtguy | 04-06-2003 03:43 PM |
The reason that the FIA has the rule, is to keep a serious crash, which happened a lap before (presuming it took another lap to get the field corralled in) from skewing the results. It is unfortunate for Fisi, but the rule makes sense. Look at it this way:
On lap 60, there is a crash that involves the two leaders, who get caught up in some unavoidable debris, and the third-place guy goes through for the lead. In the intervening lap, while the red flag decision is being made, that's another lap that the race is being run under radically altering conditions that warrant a red flag, without the race being stopped. Hence, the two-lap rule.
Now if you're Eddie Jordan or Fisichella, it sucks. If you're Webber or Alonso or Kimi, you're happy as a clam.
But that was an exceedingly strange race, to be sure.
Kimi is up top with 26 points, while M. Schumacher has 8. The new Ferrari debuts for Imola, but what this means is that Schumacher has to go on one heck of a winning streak, a task made more difficult by the resurgent McLaren.
And poor Rubens...what does that guy have to do. You do everything right, you make the pass and you're pulling away at a pace that would have almost certainly enabled you to make your pit stop and come out ahead of Kimi (though I still think, had race conditions prevailed, he would have had to pit again), and the car just stops. Unreal.
Ferrari, in the person of M. Schumacher, has the bad tire selection at Australia, and two driver errors. And the pressure keeps building. Suddenly, there's a LOT of pressure on that new car, and that of course, presumes that the new McLaren won't be a flamethrower, though if we know the lads from Woking, it almost certainly will be a flamethrower.
The Williams...I dunno...that car has some issues. If Renault can find some horsepower somewhere, they're going to be right up there, too. This is shaping up to be a good season, though one that I think would have happened even without the rules changes, which govern grid position and race strategy certainly, but not luck.
Kevin
On lap 60, there is a crash that involves the two leaders, who get caught up in some unavoidable debris, and the third-place guy goes through for the lead. In the intervening lap, while the red flag decision is being made, that's another lap that the race is being run under radically altering conditions that warrant a red flag, without the race being stopped. Hence, the two-lap rule.
Now if you're Eddie Jordan or Fisichella, it sucks. If you're Webber or Alonso or Kimi, you're happy as a clam.
But that was an exceedingly strange race, to be sure.
Kimi is up top with 26 points, while M. Schumacher has 8. The new Ferrari debuts for Imola, but what this means is that Schumacher has to go on one heck of a winning streak, a task made more difficult by the resurgent McLaren.
And poor Rubens...what does that guy have to do. You do everything right, you make the pass and you're pulling away at a pace that would have almost certainly enabled you to make your pit stop and come out ahead of Kimi (though I still think, had race conditions prevailed, he would have had to pit again), and the car just stops. Unreal.
Ferrari, in the person of M. Schumacher, has the bad tire selection at Australia, and two driver errors. And the pressure keeps building. Suddenly, there's a LOT of pressure on that new car, and that of course, presumes that the new McLaren won't be a flamethrower, though if we know the lads from Woking, it almost certainly will be a flamethrower.
The Williams...I dunno...that car has some issues. If Renault can find some horsepower somewhere, they're going to be right up there, too. This is shaping up to be a good season, though one that I think would have happened even without the rules changes, which govern grid position and race strategy certainly, but not luck.
Kevin
| Orion | 04-06-2003 03:48 PM |
I can understand 1 lap previous, but [b]2[/b] laps???? That's a joke. in 2 laps way too much can happen. Fisi lost it by less than a lap based on the 2 lap rule, and rightly would have won had it been a 1 lap rule.
| gtguy | 04-06-2003 03:51 PM |
And hey, let's not forget that Kimi was allowed an engine change, despite the rules that you run what you qualified, and have to make any changes on race day...start from pit lane, etc.
Kevin
Kevin
| Chunky_Chicken | 04-06-2003 04:24 PM |
That was definitely the most dramatic F1 race I've watched in a while.
That track needs a serious slap in the face from the FIA for the half a$$ed drainage systems they had.
Despite the contraversy over the finish, I think the right person won. Given that Fissi's car came into the pits after the red flag on fire and shooting smoke out of its left bank, if the race had restarted (which I would have liked to see) he would have been out.
I imagine the rule is 2 laps over 1 due to the fact that a corner yellow can turn into a course red the next lap, or because it can take up to 2 laps for the director to establish that a red is necessary (ie. car wrecks, driver looks fine, but turns out to need serious medical attention).
-Pete
That track needs a serious slap in the face from the FIA for the half a$$ed drainage systems they had.
Despite the contraversy over the finish, I think the right person won. Given that Fissi's car came into the pits after the red flag on fire and shooting smoke out of its left bank, if the race had restarted (which I would have liked to see) he would have been out.
I imagine the rule is 2 laps over 1 due to the fact that a corner yellow can turn into a course red the next lap, or because it can take up to 2 laps for the director to establish that a red is necessary (ie. car wrecks, driver looks fine, but turns out to need serious medical attention).
-Pete
| MonoSki | 04-06-2003 04:31 PM |
Really good racing!
Would have been great w/o the final set of accidents, but that is racing
Would have been great w/o the final set of accidents, but that is racing
| gtguy | 04-06-2003 07:35 PM |
Looks like Alonso is unhurt, which is very good news. From the pictures, things didn't look at all optimistic.
Kevin
Kevin
| richeich | 04-06-2003 10:28 PM |
I'm a little perplexed why he came blasting into there at full speed so long after the initial crash. I know he should've seen the flags. It seems the Jordan and McLaren teams maybe did a better job of warning their drivers over the radio of the seriousness of the situation. Could be that Alonso's radio wasn't working. Either way, the cockpits seemed to hold up very well, and I'm glad everybody seems to have come out okay.
Rich
Rich
| Snowphun | 04-07-2003 12:29 AM |
I'm a racefan, I didn't find it insulting. It's a sensible rule, IMO. Pisser for Fissi.
I also think it's a bit premature to blame the course workers for Alonso's incident. I didn't see any footage suggesting the prior corner did not have a yellow (or red for that matter) waving.
Paul
I also think it's a bit premature to blame the course workers for Alonso's incident. I didn't see any footage suggesting the prior corner did not have a yellow (or red for that matter) waving.
Paul
| meebs | 04-07-2003 12:44 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Orion [/i]
[B]I can understand 1 lap previous, but [b]2[/b] laps???? That's a joke. in 2 laps way too much can happen. Fisi lost it by less than a lap based on the 2 lap rule, and rightly would have won had it been a 1 lap rule. [/B][/QUOTE]
Rules are rules. What I find a joke are people like Ross Braun saying, "well it isn't a formula worth winning, etc etc.." Sucks to not be able to adapt eh? McLaren seem to be doing just fine. A formula is just that, you need to make it work within the rules to win, if you find the rule dumb or not, [b]it still applies to everyone on the grid.[/b]
Also wasn't there talk of Fissi having to pit again anyway?? So Kimi would have taken the lead back. Farce? Not in my book...
[B]I can understand 1 lap previous, but [b]2[/b] laps???? That's a joke. in 2 laps way too much can happen. Fisi lost it by less than a lap based on the 2 lap rule, and rightly would have won had it been a 1 lap rule. [/B][/QUOTE]
Rules are rules. What I find a joke are people like Ross Braun saying, "well it isn't a formula worth winning, etc etc.." Sucks to not be able to adapt eh? McLaren seem to be doing just fine. A formula is just that, you need to make it work within the rules to win, if you find the rule dumb or not, [b]it still applies to everyone on the grid.[/b]
Also wasn't there talk of Fissi having to pit again anyway?? So Kimi would have taken the lead back. Farce? Not in my book...
| p1driftfiend | 04-07-2003 01:00 AM |
Chunky_Chicken: You took the words out of my mouth. It couldn't have been said any better. A race is a race and a lot can happen. All these people are crying about Fisi, and I initially felt sorry for him, until you realize a lot could have happened in the 15-16 remaining laps. And I wonder, if his car "exploded" like it did in the pits, what would of happened on the track?
Good enjoyable race, and the right man won. I love Kimi, and think he's the next Hakkinen.
-Tim
Good enjoyable race, and the right man won. I love Kimi, and think he's the next Hakkinen.
-Tim
| Dr. WOT | 04-07-2003 09:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by meebs [/i]
[B]
Rules are rules. What I find a joke are people like Ross Braun saying, "well it isn't a formula worth winning, etc etc.." Sucks to not be able to adapt eh? McLaren seem to be doing just fine. A formula is just that, you need to make it work within the rules to win, if you find the rule dumb or not, [b]it still applies to everyone on the grid.[/b]
[/B][/QUOTE]
What Brawn said was that while they were winning last year, if that version of F1 wasn't worth watching then the rules should be changed, even if it is to their detriment.
I agree the Brazilian race organizers did a mediocre job at best. Don't forget that 2 years ago F1 was threatening to drop Brazil because of problems at the track (one of the incidents was a huge billboard fell down onto the track).
As for yellow flags, in the replay you can see waving yellow in the bend after the crash, but the couple of cars that passed through before Alonso were all at speed too, so they certainly didn't do a good enough job for such a big crash at such a fast and blind corner. I think they also did a poor job cleaning up from Firman's suspension failure.
The drainage on that track is a problem, which is a shame since is is a great layout. Circuits with elevation change are becoming rare.
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one.
[B]
Rules are rules. What I find a joke are people like Ross Braun saying, "well it isn't a formula worth winning, etc etc.." Sucks to not be able to adapt eh? McLaren seem to be doing just fine. A formula is just that, you need to make it work within the rules to win, if you find the rule dumb or not, [b]it still applies to everyone on the grid.[/b]
[/B][/QUOTE]
What Brawn said was that while they were winning last year, if that version of F1 wasn't worth watching then the rules should be changed, even if it is to their detriment.
I agree the Brazilian race organizers did a mediocre job at best. Don't forget that 2 years ago F1 was threatening to drop Brazil because of problems at the track (one of the incidents was a huge billboard fell down onto the track).
As for yellow flags, in the replay you can see waving yellow in the bend after the crash, but the couple of cars that passed through before Alonso were all at speed too, so they certainly didn't do a good enough job for such a big crash at such a fast and blind corner. I think they also did a poor job cleaning up from Firman's suspension failure.
The drainage on that track is a problem, which is a shame since is is a great layout. Circuits with elevation change are becoming rare.
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one.
| meebs | 04-07-2003 09:39 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]
The drainage on that track is a problem, which is a shame since is is a great layout. Circuits with elevation change are becoming rare.
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, did they ever say what happened to his car anyway? Looked like he ran out of fuel?
I like this track too, I hope it doesn't go away anytime soon.
[B]
The drainage on that track is a problem, which is a shame since is is a great layout. Circuits with elevation change are becoming rare.
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, did they ever say what happened to his car anyway? Looked like he ran out of fuel?
I like this track too, I hope it doesn't go away anytime soon.
| StuBeck | 04-07-2003 11:29 AM |
He had a fuel pickup problem...so pretty much he ran out :(
| Dr. WOT | 04-07-2003 11:36 AM |
BTW, whatever became of that new electronic flag system they talked about a few years back? Aren't there supposed to be huge digital displays around the track that show the current flag situation? I though there was also talk of putting warning lights in the driver's helmets. :confused:
| Snowphun | 04-07-2003 01:16 PM |
For the "most advanced racing in the world", you'd think they would have onboard flag status lights, among other things. Incidents like this just shouldn't happen.
| OnTheGas | 04-07-2003 08:16 PM |
Flags vs. Lights & Heads Up Systems
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]...I though there was also talk of putting warning lights in the driver's helmets.[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, good questions... At the speed that these guys are flying around, one would think there would be a better system.
Regarding the heads up display, I think Ralf Schumacher was doing some testing of a system during this past off-season...
[B]...I though there was also talk of putting warning lights in the driver's helmets.[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, good questions... At the speed that these guys are flying around, one would think there would be a better system.
Regarding the heads up display, I think Ralf Schumacher was doing some testing of a system during this past off-season...
| driggity | 04-07-2003 08:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]As for yellow flags, in the replay you can see waving yellow in the bend after the crash, but the couple of cars that passed through before Alonso were all at speed too, so they certainly didn't do a good enough job for such a big crash at such a fast and blind corner. I think they also did a poor job cleaning up from Firman's suspension failure.[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know. To me it looked like the two cars before Alonso were going a good deal slower than he was. Maybe not though.
[B]As for yellow flags, in the replay you can see waving yellow in the bend after the crash, but the couple of cars that passed through before Alonso were all at speed too, so they certainly didn't do a good enough job for such a big crash at such a fast and blind corner. I think they also did a poor job cleaning up from Firman's suspension failure.[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know. To me it looked like the two cars before Alonso were going a good deal slower than he was. Maybe not though.
| meebs | 04-07-2003 08:34 PM |
Re: Flags vs. Lights & Heads Up Systems
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]Yeah, good questions... At the speed that these guys are flying around, one would think there would be a better system.
Regarding the heads up display, I think Ralf Schumacher was doing some testing of a system during this past off-season... [/B][/QUOTE]
Even so... you would think someone would be on the radio saying, [B][size=15]"SLOW DOWN!!"[/size][/b] They've got enough TV monitors on the pit wall. :confused:
[B]Yeah, good questions... At the speed that these guys are flying around, one would think there would be a better system.
Regarding the heads up display, I think Ralf Schumacher was doing some testing of a system during this past off-season... [/B][/QUOTE]
Even so... you would think someone would be on the radio saying, [B][size=15]"SLOW DOWN!!"[/size][/b] They've got enough TV monitors on the pit wall. :confused:
| Adrian128 | 04-09-2003 10:07 AM |
What I find ironic is that the decision to save money by not bringing full wet tyres has ended up costing most teams a lot more in the way of damaged cars etc. Mind you the weather conditions made it more of a spectacle. :)
| gtguy | 04-09-2003 10:20 AM |
This just in...
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Fisichella may be awarded Brazil win
New FIA evidence could give the Italian his first victory
Fisichella and Jordan before being awarded second place in Brazil
Giancarlo Fisichella could still be declared the winner of the Brazilian Grand Prix. The FIA, the governing body of motorsport, has summoned the stewards of last weekend's chaotic race to its headquarters in Paris on Friday after receiving evidence which suggests that Fisichella had started his 56th lap before the race was stopped. This is contrary to the information supplied by the race time-keepers.
If the evidence proves correct then the race classification would stand from the end of the 54th lap when the Jordan driver was leading. The result at the moment is classified at 53 completed laps with Kimi Raikkonen regarded the winner.
An FIA press release this morning stated that in accordance with Article 179(b) of the International Sporting Code, the stewards of the Brazilian GP will re-convene on Friday 11 April at 11.00am to review the results of the event. All competitors who might be affected by the outcome of the meeting have also been invited to attend. This could include those who crashed, thus bringing out the red flags.
The race was stopped when Fernando Alonso hit debris left from Mark Webber's crashed Jaguar on the exit of the final corner. But Fisichella had passed Raikkonen for the lead on lap 54 and led lap 55 before the red flags stopped the race. If the evidence proves the Italian completed lap 55, before the red flags came out, then according to the regulations he would be the rightful winner of the Brazilian GP.
Mark Webber, on the other hand, could lose his seventh place to become 'unclassified' if Alonso's crash is determined as having stopped the race. Click back to autosport.com for the result of the FIA meeting on Friday.
New FIA evidence could give the Italian his first victory
Fisichella and Jordan before being awarded second place in Brazil
Giancarlo Fisichella could still be declared the winner of the Brazilian Grand Prix. The FIA, the governing body of motorsport, has summoned the stewards of last weekend's chaotic race to its headquarters in Paris on Friday after receiving evidence which suggests that Fisichella had started his 56th lap before the race was stopped. This is contrary to the information supplied by the race time-keepers.
If the evidence proves correct then the race classification would stand from the end of the 54th lap when the Jordan driver was leading. The result at the moment is classified at 53 completed laps with Kimi Raikkonen regarded the winner.
An FIA press release this morning stated that in accordance with Article 179(b) of the International Sporting Code, the stewards of the Brazilian GP will re-convene on Friday 11 April at 11.00am to review the results of the event. All competitors who might be affected by the outcome of the meeting have also been invited to attend. This could include those who crashed, thus bringing out the red flags.
The race was stopped when Fernando Alonso hit debris left from Mark Webber's crashed Jaguar on the exit of the final corner. But Fisichella had passed Raikkonen for the lead on lap 54 and led lap 55 before the red flags stopped the race. If the evidence proves the Italian completed lap 55, before the red flags came out, then according to the regulations he would be the rightful winner of the Brazilian GP.
Mark Webber, on the other hand, could lose his seventh place to become 'unclassified' if Alonso's crash is determined as having stopped the race. Click back to autosport.com for the result of the FIA meeting on Friday.
| Dr. WOT | 04-09-2003 01:08 PM |
lol! Just to thicken the plot even further, here's this:
[quote][b]Schu Questions McLaren Victory April 9 11:20 [/b]
Michael Schumacher has questioned the third successive victory of McLaren Mercedes after a prematurely-ended Brazilian Grand Prix.
The reigning world champion, who sits a worrying distance behind the silver leaders in the 2003 title stakes, says Jordan's Giancarlo Fisichella, not Kimi Raikkonen, should have held victory's trophy aloft.
Schumacher said the governing FIA made a mistake by allocating a full compliment of points to double-successive grand prix winner Kimi Raikkonen because the race did not actually go three-quarter distance.
Race director Charlie Whiting threw the red flag on the 55th lap, but a mandatory 'count-back' rule meant that the results classification dated back to lap 53.
'One gets full points if three quarters of the distance is completed,' said Schumacher in a German television interview.
'So that would be 54 laps.'
He argues that Kimi Raikkonen should have earned only half-points because the classified 53-lap race was a mere 74 percent race distance.
The 34-year-old continues: 'If they (FIA) say that more laps were raced then they must declare Giancarlo Fisichella the winner.'
Fisichella, the young Roman who celebrated wildly with his yellow-clad ranks before realising he was not the winner, overtook Kimi Raikkonen just before the red-flag and was leading after 75 percent race distance.
'It will be interesting to see how the FIA can explain this,' said Schumacher.
Ferrari have confirmed they will not protest the result of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, in which both Rubens Barrichello and Schumacher failed to finish. [/quote]
At first it sounds like sour grapes, but actually he has a point. I'm not sure how this would work in with Kevin's post -- this is all making my head hurt! :alien:
The title of this thread gets more appropriate by the day....
[quote][b]Schu Questions McLaren Victory April 9 11:20 [/b]
Michael Schumacher has questioned the third successive victory of McLaren Mercedes after a prematurely-ended Brazilian Grand Prix.
The reigning world champion, who sits a worrying distance behind the silver leaders in the 2003 title stakes, says Jordan's Giancarlo Fisichella, not Kimi Raikkonen, should have held victory's trophy aloft.
Schumacher said the governing FIA made a mistake by allocating a full compliment of points to double-successive grand prix winner Kimi Raikkonen because the race did not actually go three-quarter distance.
Race director Charlie Whiting threw the red flag on the 55th lap, but a mandatory 'count-back' rule meant that the results classification dated back to lap 53.
'One gets full points if three quarters of the distance is completed,' said Schumacher in a German television interview.
'So that would be 54 laps.'
He argues that Kimi Raikkonen should have earned only half-points because the classified 53-lap race was a mere 74 percent race distance.
The 34-year-old continues: 'If they (FIA) say that more laps were raced then they must declare Giancarlo Fisichella the winner.'
Fisichella, the young Roman who celebrated wildly with his yellow-clad ranks before realising he was not the winner, overtook Kimi Raikkonen just before the red-flag and was leading after 75 percent race distance.
'It will be interesting to see how the FIA can explain this,' said Schumacher.
Ferrari have confirmed they will not protest the result of the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, in which both Rubens Barrichello and Schumacher failed to finish. [/quote]
At first it sounds like sour grapes, but actually he has a point. I'm not sure how this would work in with Kevin's post -- this is all making my head hurt! :alien:
The title of this thread gets more appropriate by the day....
| gtguy | 04-09-2003 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]lol! Just to thicken the plot even further, here's this:
At first it sounds like sour grapes, but actually he has a point. I'm not sure how this would work in with Kevin's post -- this is all making my head hurt! :alien:
The title of this thread gets more appropriate by the day.... [/B][/QUOTE]
All we need now is Mr. Wizard and whatever that Turtle's name was, to sort this all out (for you cartoon fans). :lol:
I think that it is some CYA from Schumacher, and the first admission, despite their whistling past the graveyard public statements, that young Kimi has rather a hefty lead, this early in the season. I think them boys is gettin' a bit worried.
Kevin
[B]lol! Just to thicken the plot even further, here's this:
At first it sounds like sour grapes, but actually he has a point. I'm not sure how this would work in with Kevin's post -- this is all making my head hurt! :alien:
The title of this thread gets more appropriate by the day.... [/B][/QUOTE]
All we need now is Mr. Wizard and whatever that Turtle's name was, to sort this all out (for you cartoon fans). :lol:
I think that it is some CYA from Schumacher, and the first admission, despite their whistling past the graveyard public statements, that young Kimi has rather a hefty lead, this early in the season. I think them boys is gettin' a bit worried.
Kevin
| ForceFed4 | 04-09-2003 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gtguy [/i]
[B]I think that it is some CYA from Schumacher, and the first admission, despite their whistling past the graveyard public statements, that young Kimi has rather a hefty lead, this early in the season. I think them boys is gettin' a bit worried.[/B][/QUOTE]I think you may be right. Schumi certainly has a vested interest in seeing Kimi awarded less points. OTOH, as stated above, it appears he may actually be technically correct. 53 laps is less than 3/4, and 54 means Fisi wins, either way Kimi gets less points.
Just watch the rules changes fly after this one...
[B]I think that it is some CYA from Schumacher, and the first admission, despite their whistling past the graveyard public statements, that young Kimi has rather a hefty lead, this early in the season. I think them boys is gettin' a bit worried.[/B][/QUOTE]I think you may be right. Schumi certainly has a vested interest in seeing Kimi awarded less points. OTOH, as stated above, it appears he may actually be technically correct. 53 laps is less than 3/4, and 54 means Fisi wins, either way Kimi gets less points.
Just watch the rules changes fly after this one...
| Zahnster | 04-09-2003 02:27 PM |
Just to clarify one thing. Aren't they no longer alowed to use radios to the drivers?
| ForceFed4 | 04-09-2003 03:00 PM |
As far as I know (and this could be wrong, things seem to change from minute to minute), 2 way radio is still in. 2-way telemetry is not; I believe the car can still send info to the pits, but not vice-versa.
| Zahnster | 04-10-2003 11:51 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ForceFed4 [/i]
[B]As far as I know (and this could be wrong, things seem to change from minute to minute), 2 way radio is still in. 2-way telemetry is not; I believe the car can still send info to the pits, but not vice-versa. [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought I heard they had to use pitwall signs again since they couldn't tell the driver when to pit anymore.
If you can send radio signals, you can hide other things in the noise. Since it's tough to police things like that, it's easier to ban all of it.
[B]As far as I know (and this could be wrong, things seem to change from minute to minute), 2 way radio is still in. 2-way telemetry is not; I believe the car can still send info to the pits, but not vice-versa. [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought I heard they had to use pitwall signs again since they couldn't tell the driver when to pit anymore.
If you can send radio signals, you can hide other things in the noise. Since it's tough to police things like that, it's easier to ban all of it.
| StuBeck | 04-10-2003 12:05 PM |
They did ban all radio communication for a bit, but decided against it. They have two way communication, but can't send anything in this signal. Also, all the communication is not encrypted anymore, so it would be a lot harder to fake a signal.
| SubaruImpreza_power | 04-10-2003 12:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dr. WOT [/i]
[B]
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah he really did..
[B]
Too bad for Rubino, he really deserved this one. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah he really did..
| SubaruImpreza_power | 04-10-2003 01:01 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by StuBeck [/i]
[B]He had a fuel pickup problem...so pretty much he ran out :( [/B][/QUOTE]crap.. so thats what happened.. I think the FIA rule about not beeing able to fill up on race day is stupid..
[B]He had a fuel pickup problem...so pretty much he ran out :( [/B][/QUOTE]crap.. so thats what happened.. I think the FIA rule about not beeing able to fill up on race day is stupid..
| Fred Zaplitny | 04-10-2003 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SubaruImpreza_power [/i]
[B]crap.. so thats what happened.. I think the FIA rule about not beeing able to fill up on race day is stupid.. [/B][/QUOTE]
They could go back to the rule they had in the turbo days. One load of fuel per race, that's it.
[B]crap.. so thats what happened.. I think the FIA rule about not beeing able to fill up on race day is stupid.. [/B][/QUOTE]
They could go back to the rule they had in the turbo days. One load of fuel per race, that's it.
| OnTheGas | 04-10-2003 01:26 PM |
Why Did Race Control Not Know What Happened @ Interlagos?
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This is an interesting article from [URL=http://www.grandprix.com/nscurrent.html]GrandPrix.com News[/URL].[quote][i]url = [url]http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns10974.html[/url][/i]
[b]The important question that needs to be answered about the Brazilian Grand Prix is how it was that the classification was issued incorrectly - if it is judged that this was the case. The timing screens immediately after the race showed the order on lap 54. Several journalists (who have very tight deadlines in Brazil) where in the process of writing stories with Giancarlo Fisichella as the winner. Those who kept lap charts were busy arguing that Fisichella had completed lap 55 and therefore that the classification should have been at the end of lap 53. But its seems that everyone was wrong because Fisichella did not take the red flag before he crossed the finish line and so it was his 56th lap when the race was stopped. Thus the classification should have been taken at the end of lap 54, as the screens indicated. At some point (several minutes) after the race ended this was switched to the classification at the end of lap 53 which made Kimi Raikkonen the winner as he was still in the lead at that point.
The mess in Brazil may also be linked to the fact that for the first time in memory Race Control also missed a clear violation of the rules when Ralf Schumacher overtook Jos Verstappen before the start-finish line at the first restart. This should have been reported and punished with a drive-through penalty. Several drivers also reported yellow flag overtaking incidents which were not punished.
The interesting point in all this is that there may be a reason for it all happening at the same event. The demise of the Formula One television digital broadcasts means that some of the technology which was used by Race Control may no longer be available.
The digital broadcast center - known in the Formula 1 paddock as "Bakersville" after Eddie Baker, the former Brabham mechanic who ran it - was producing groundbreaking digital TV coverage of Grands Prix racing. This was able to monitor the exact position of each car on the track at any time. This was very useful for the TV crews because it enabled them to have the cameras better coordinated and to have the captioning much more reliable. This was achieved by the use of a fiber optic cable "ring" of the circuit, linking together sensors which are placed every 100m. As the computers knew exactly where the cars were and how fast they were going it was possible to monitor incidents and we believe that software existed which indicated if a driver has gone through an accident scene faster than he should have done or overtaken when he was not supposed to have done.[/b][/quote]
[b]The important question that needs to be answered about the Brazilian Grand Prix is how it was that the classification was issued incorrectly - if it is judged that this was the case. The timing screens immediately after the race showed the order on lap 54. Several journalists (who have very tight deadlines in Brazil) where in the process of writing stories with Giancarlo Fisichella as the winner. Those who kept lap charts were busy arguing that Fisichella had completed lap 55 and therefore that the classification should have been at the end of lap 53. But its seems that everyone was wrong because Fisichella did not take the red flag before he crossed the finish line and so it was his 56th lap when the race was stopped. Thus the classification should have been taken at the end of lap 54, as the screens indicated. At some point (several minutes) after the race ended this was switched to the classification at the end of lap 53 which made Kimi Raikkonen the winner as he was still in the lead at that point.
The mess in Brazil may also be linked to the fact that for the first time in memory Race Control also missed a clear violation of the rules when Ralf Schumacher overtook Jos Verstappen before the start-finish line at the first restart. This should have been reported and punished with a drive-through penalty. Several drivers also reported yellow flag overtaking incidents which were not punished.
The interesting point in all this is that there may be a reason for it all happening at the same event. The demise of the Formula One television digital broadcasts means that some of the technology which was used by Race Control may no longer be available.
The digital broadcast center - known in the Formula 1 paddock as "Bakersville" after Eddie Baker, the former Brabham mechanic who ran it - was producing groundbreaking digital TV coverage of Grands Prix racing. This was able to monitor the exact position of each car on the track at any time. This was very useful for the TV crews because it enabled them to have the cameras better coordinated and to have the captioning much more reliable. This was achieved by the use of a fiber optic cable "ring" of the circuit, linking together sensors which are placed every 100m. As the computers knew exactly where the cars were and how fast they were going it was possible to monitor incidents and we believe that software existed which indicated if a driver has gone through an accident scene faster than he should have done or overtaken when he was not supposed to have done.[/b][/quote]
| OnTheGas | 04-10-2003 02:14 PM |
I've Thought The Same Thing!
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Fred Zaplitny [/i]
[B]They could go back to the rule they had in the turbo days. One load of fuel per race, that's it. [/B][/QUOTE]I agree! It would turn the championship into more of a driver's championship because tire management becomes an important factor (assuming that electronic traction control is eventually banned).
The great battles between Senna and Prost were great examples of tire management and fabulous driver control.
At the same time, from the engineering viewpoint, it pushes technology in a positive direction of better fuel efficiency technologies, and better chassis and aero dynamics to be easier on the tires.
Plus, we would have no more mechanics dressed up like darth vader in the pits... We'd return to the euro wrenches in shorts pit scenes...
:D
[B]They could go back to the rule they had in the turbo days. One load of fuel per race, that's it. [/B][/QUOTE]I agree! It would turn the championship into more of a driver's championship because tire management becomes an important factor (assuming that electronic traction control is eventually banned).
The great battles between Senna and Prost were great examples of tire management and fabulous driver control.
At the same time, from the engineering viewpoint, it pushes technology in a positive direction of better fuel efficiency technologies, and better chassis and aero dynamics to be easier on the tires.
Plus, we would have no more mechanics dressed up like darth vader in the pits... We'd return to the euro wrenches in shorts pit scenes...
:D
| gtguy | 04-10-2003 08:24 PM |
Re: I've Thought The Same Thing!
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by OnTheGas [/i]
[B]I agree! It would turn the championship into more of a driver's championship because tire management becomes an important factor (assuming that electronic traction control is eventually banned).
The great battles between Senna and Prost were great examples of tire management and fabulous driver control.
At the same time, from the engineering viewpoint, it pushes technology in a positive direction of better fuel efficiency technologies, and better chassis and aero dynamics to be easier on the tires.
Plus, we would have no more mechanics dressed up like darth vader in the pits... We'd return to the euro wrenches in shorts pit scenes...
:D [/B][/QUOTE]
We're all of like minds on that one. Plus, we wouldn't see good on-track battles dissipate when someone has to pit.
Kevin
[B]I agree! It would turn the championship into more of a driver's championship because tire management becomes an important factor (assuming that electronic traction control is eventually banned).
The great battles between Senna and Prost were great examples of tire management and fabulous driver control.
At the same time, from the engineering viewpoint, it pushes technology in a positive direction of better fuel efficiency technologies, and better chassis and aero dynamics to be easier on the tires.
Plus, we would have no more mechanics dressed up like darth vader in the pits... We'd return to the euro wrenches in shorts pit scenes...
:D [/B][/QUOTE]
We're all of like minds on that one. Plus, we wouldn't see good on-track battles dissipate when someone has to pit.
Kevin
| WRXinWhite | 04-11-2003 10:56 AM |
Fisichella has been declared a winner of GP Brasil, Raikkonen second, Alonso third.
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