| dch | 02-05-2004 03:41 PM |
Pike's Peak 2004 - Tire Choices
�
�
Hiya,
I'm looking for some speculation, suggestions, babbling or any other thoughts y'all might have on tires with regard to Pike's Peak this year. Check out the schedule for the ProRally portion of the event: [URL=http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/PRCB103103-04pikespeaksched.pdf]Schedule[/URL]
Stage 2, which will be run at 4:00 in the morning on Friday, will be all tarmac, with some loose sand undoubtedly drug in from the corners. I assume a wise choice for a tire here would be some sort of 17" R compound? Temps will be pretty chilly at that time of the morning so I would guess something soft would be appropriate, perhaps in a wet tread pattern to deal with the sand? The tires don't need to be street legal I might add, and cost isn't a big deciding factor. I believe the stage is 10 miles long so the tires don't have to do a heck of a lot.
Stages 1 and 3, along with 4 and 5 on race day, are the more traditional "whole enchilada" of Pike's Peak involving new tarmac, broken tarmac, and hard packed gravel with some loose stuff on the surface of both the tarmac and gravel portions. The whole shabang is about 12 miles long, and Cove Creek is approximately the half-way point to give you some idea on stage lengths. Traditionally I have run a Pirelli XR or SG35 which is a tough, heavy, combined gravel/tarmac rally tire. They weigh a ton, but are practically indestructible which is a benefit because a flat will pretty much punt you from the competition. Temperatures can vary during the same day, from you don't want to be there without a parka and a hat, to you really wish you'd worn shorts and brought sunblock. Generally speaking it's reasonably cool, I'd guess somewhere in the 60's. Running a new set of tires for each stage, along with some time in there to test various compounds and make some choices, is a possibility.
So what do you guys think? All my tire experience has been strictly on rough gravel events and I'm looking for some theories and insights on what might work well for the mixed conditions at the Peak. Let the speculations fly!
Cheers,
-Doug
#88 WRX STi
[IMG]http://www.subaru.net/cpd/pics/ppihc/02/images/PP_02_E_1_800X600_JPG.jpg[/IMG]
I'm looking for some speculation, suggestions, babbling or any other thoughts y'all might have on tires with regard to Pike's Peak this year. Check out the schedule for the ProRally portion of the event: [URL=http://www.scca.org/news/tech/prorally/PRCB103103-04pikespeaksched.pdf]Schedule[/URL]
Stage 2, which will be run at 4:00 in the morning on Friday, will be all tarmac, with some loose sand undoubtedly drug in from the corners. I assume a wise choice for a tire here would be some sort of 17" R compound? Temps will be pretty chilly at that time of the morning so I would guess something soft would be appropriate, perhaps in a wet tread pattern to deal with the sand? The tires don't need to be street legal I might add, and cost isn't a big deciding factor. I believe the stage is 10 miles long so the tires don't have to do a heck of a lot.
Stages 1 and 3, along with 4 and 5 on race day, are the more traditional "whole enchilada" of Pike's Peak involving new tarmac, broken tarmac, and hard packed gravel with some loose stuff on the surface of both the tarmac and gravel portions. The whole shabang is about 12 miles long, and Cove Creek is approximately the half-way point to give you some idea on stage lengths. Traditionally I have run a Pirelli XR or SG35 which is a tough, heavy, combined gravel/tarmac rally tire. They weigh a ton, but are practically indestructible which is a benefit because a flat will pretty much punt you from the competition. Temperatures can vary during the same day, from you don't want to be there without a parka and a hat, to you really wish you'd worn shorts and brought sunblock. Generally speaking it's reasonably cool, I'd guess somewhere in the 60's. Running a new set of tires for each stage, along with some time in there to test various compounds and make some choices, is a possibility.
So what do you guys think? All my tire experience has been strictly on rough gravel events and I'm looking for some theories and insights on what might work well for the mixed conditions at the Peak. Let the speculations fly!
Cheers,
-Doug
#88 WRX STi
[IMG]http://www.subaru.net/cpd/pics/ppihc/02/images/PP_02_E_1_800X600_JPG.jpg[/IMG]
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 04:00 PM |
Ahh lets call this one a babbler.
Toll gate to halfway... that could be a real fast stage if it was in the middle of a nice day. I don't remember if there is any dew or not that time of year. You are probably on the right track with some wet tread for the loose stuff on the tarmac and on the off chance it gets below the dew point overnight. It will definitely be cool and I don't recall any time of year that PP was anything other than chilly at 4:00AM.
Is there any Falken contingency money since they are such a large sponsor of the peak?
Spectated there a lot over the years, last year was great (even made it into a Devil's Playground video posted here), hope to make it out there again this year. [url]http://www.ppihc.com/[/url] for those interested in going.
Ed.
Toll gate to halfway... that could be a real fast stage if it was in the middle of a nice day. I don't remember if there is any dew or not that time of year. You are probably on the right track with some wet tread for the loose stuff on the tarmac and on the off chance it gets below the dew point overnight. It will definitely be cool and I don't recall any time of year that PP was anything other than chilly at 4:00AM.
Is there any Falken contingency money since they are such a large sponsor of the peak?
Spectated there a lot over the years, last year was great (even made it into a Devil's Playground video posted here), hope to make it out there again this year. [url]http://www.ppihc.com/[/url] for those interested in going.
Ed.
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 04:17 PM |
Hey Doug,
I think your tarmac plan is good. The first part is very smooth and wicked fast. I see two problems: 1. It will probably be below freezing at 4am, so getting tires up to temp will be difficult. 2. Fine sand will blow onto the surface making traction unpredictable, especially for later runs.
Can you guys use tire warmers?
The rest of the mountain is tricky as well. The dirt parts are the smoothest you will ever find. The three mid course "paved" miles are probably the worst paved road you will ever find. Most of the fast pre SCCA guys ran on 17" wheels and High performance street tires. 5 time champ Jeff Zwart used hand cut BFG RA-1's, and then hand cut BFG KD's and most recently hand cut Michelin Pilot Sports. I asked him why he switched to Michelin and he told me BFG didn't make a tire that fit his GT3 at the time. He would have prefered BFG. Rhys Millen ran BFG drag tires on his EVO 6.5 for a couple years. The first year he was protested by his "friend" Jeff. At the time the tires were experimental and not available to the public. He was about 2 seconds a mile faster on the 17" drag tires then he was on his back up KD's. He still won. The first year he ran up the peak in his EVO he used up a brand new set of super soft tires before the finish. Nearly went off the 4,000 foot last corner right in front of me. At the finish line his tires were down to the cords!
:eek:
Next year the drag tires were legal. He was still faster then the rest but the car broke.
BTW I have a poster of Jeff Zwart in his Porsche at Boulder Park hanging on my wall. The fast line is black where the cars are putting down rubber on the DIRT!
You will also need to bring mud tires in case it rains or snows.
Good luck!
Rupert
I think your tarmac plan is good. The first part is very smooth and wicked fast. I see two problems: 1. It will probably be below freezing at 4am, so getting tires up to temp will be difficult. 2. Fine sand will blow onto the surface making traction unpredictable, especially for later runs.
Can you guys use tire warmers?
The rest of the mountain is tricky as well. The dirt parts are the smoothest you will ever find. The three mid course "paved" miles are probably the worst paved road you will ever find. Most of the fast pre SCCA guys ran on 17" wheels and High performance street tires. 5 time champ Jeff Zwart used hand cut BFG RA-1's, and then hand cut BFG KD's and most recently hand cut Michelin Pilot Sports. I asked him why he switched to Michelin and he told me BFG didn't make a tire that fit his GT3 at the time. He would have prefered BFG. Rhys Millen ran BFG drag tires on his EVO 6.5 for a couple years. The first year he was protested by his "friend" Jeff. At the time the tires were experimental and not available to the public. He was about 2 seconds a mile faster on the 17" drag tires then he was on his back up KD's. He still won. The first year he ran up the peak in his EVO he used up a brand new set of super soft tires before the finish. Nearly went off the 4,000 foot last corner right in front of me. At the finish line his tires were down to the cords!
:eek:
Next year the drag tires were legal. He was still faster then the rest but the car broke.
BTW I have a poster of Jeff Zwart in his Porsche at Boulder Park hanging on my wall. The fast line is black where the cars are putting down rubber on the DIRT!
You will also need to bring mud tires in case it rains or snows.
Good luck!
Rupert
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 04:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by turboICE [/i]
[B] I don't remember if there is any dew or not that time of year. You are probably on the right track with some wet tread for the loose stuff on the tarmac and on the off chance it gets below the dew point overnight. It will definitely be cool and I don't recall any time of year that PP was anything other than chilly at 4:00AM.
[/B][/QUOTE]
For me it is almost 20 years that I have been at every level of the mountain at 4am. It will be below freezing.
[B] I don't remember if there is any dew or not that time of year. You are probably on the right track with some wet tread for the loose stuff on the tarmac and on the off chance it gets below the dew point overnight. It will definitely be cool and I don't recall any time of year that PP was anything other than chilly at 4:00AM.
[/B][/QUOTE]
For me it is almost 20 years that I have been at every level of the mountain at 4am. It will be below freezing.
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 04:45 PM |
Probably will be then. I have only been there 8 times in the summer for the last day of the hill climb. At 4am I am usually in line below the gate and usually getting to Devil's Playground before 6am. Never measured the temp but knew it was always cold and needed a jacket. I would not have thought it was always below 32* but would have guessed generally below 40* - which is about chilly to me but never have measured it. I did qualify it as babbling ;)
Ed.
Ed.
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 05:03 PM |
They have recorded down to 60 below with wind chill near the top at about 4:30 am. I have the frost bite to prove it! The bottom is better near the mid twenties till the sun comes up. It then can go all the way up to about 80 at the start line.
I have seen temperatures as low as 0 at Devils Playground and 104 in downtown Colorado Springs...on the same day!
Don't foget about tire pressure. It can vary up to 6 lbs from the Springs to the top. Buy a prepackaged donut before you head up and watch the plastic wrapping blow up like a balloon by the time you get to 14,000 feet!
I have seen temperatures as low as 0 at Devils Playground and 104 in downtown Colorado Springs...on the same day!
Don't foget about tire pressure. It can vary up to 6 lbs from the Springs to the top. Buy a prepackaged donut before you head up and watch the plastic wrapping blow up like a balloon by the time you get to 14,000 feet!
| ursine | 02-05-2004 05:22 PM |
Kumho gravels with 33 psi, thats how I set my car up.
-Branden
-Branden
| WRXMaster | 02-05-2004 07:16 PM |
What about running Falken Azenis? THey have really strong sidewalls.... Broken tarmac? I was thinking of using Lightweight rims for this event .........would it be wiser to use the Stock RS wheels?
| Fitz | 02-05-2004 07:49 PM |
I'd give a few body organs to make it out there. Please take plenty of pics.
Fitz
[url]www.Flat4Racing.com[/url]
Fitz
[url]www.Flat4Racing.com[/url]
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 08:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ursine [/i]
[B]Kumho gravels with 33 psi, thats how I set my car up.
-Branden [/B][/QUOTE]
Over 50% of the course will be paved this year.:( :furious:
[B]Kumho gravels with 33 psi, thats how I set my car up.
-Branden [/B][/QUOTE]
Over 50% of the course will be paved this year.:( :furious:
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 08:11 PM |
Oh come on you know you want to go... It's only two days to get out there. I would even follow along and be a gopher. I am hoping this will be the first time I make it driving out there two years in a row. I have wimped out occassionally and flown. By and far my favorite race to spectate at is Pikes Peak.
Ed.
Ed.
| ursine | 02-05-2004 08:14 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rupertberr[/i]
[B] Over 50% of the course will be paved this year.:( :furious: [/B][/QUOTE]
Then I would say the same tires with about 42 psi, thats what I ran for the first few stages at Rim last year and they served me very well and it was partially pavent.
-Branden
[B] Over 50% of the course will be paved this year.:( :furious: [/B][/QUOTE]
Then I would say the same tires with about 42 psi, thats what I ran for the first few stages at Rim last year and they served me very well and it was partially pavent.
-Branden
| dch | 02-05-2004 08:22 PM |
Hmmm... Tire warmers. I wonder if any of the local roadrace boys (or girls :D) have some I could borrow. The SCCA rules are a bit different than the regular Pike's Peak rules. I'm not aware of any tire restrictions in the Open class regs because generally speaking you'd have to be an idiot to run drag tires at say Rim Of The World. Never seen anything that says you can't throw your tires in the sauna with you before you head out to the stages, either.
I haven't found anything about a Falken contingency. That doesn't mean there isn't one of course, it just means I haven't found it yet. I'll ask around.
I have a tire cutter that works pretty darn good, so hand cutting some grippy high performance tires is probably how I should go. BFG KD's, eh. I guess I'll have to do a bit of compound research and find someone who has some cutting suggestions. Those would probably work well for the whole course I would think. Those dang rally tires are so heavy it feels like it sucks about 50hp out of the car when you bolt them on. I guess I should find some 17" wheels in the right offset as well. Hmmm... Will I need to alter the offset if I'm going to run say 225-17? Time to see what the gravel wheels are and start from there I guess.
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://www.subaru.net/events/2003/lspr/morgan/images/241.jpg[/IMG]
I haven't found anything about a Falken contingency. That doesn't mean there isn't one of course, it just means I haven't found it yet. I'll ask around.
I have a tire cutter that works pretty darn good, so hand cutting some grippy high performance tires is probably how I should go. BFG KD's, eh. I guess I'll have to do a bit of compound research and find someone who has some cutting suggestions. Those would probably work well for the whole course I would think. Those dang rally tires are so heavy it feels like it sucks about 50hp out of the car when you bolt them on. I guess I should find some 17" wheels in the right offset as well. Hmmm... Will I need to alter the offset if I'm going to run say 225-17? Time to see what the gravel wheels are and start from there I guess.
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://www.subaru.net/events/2003/lspr/morgan/images/241.jpg[/IMG]
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 08:25 PM |
2003 Pics
�
�
Will try be at 2004 as well for pics.
Lovell and Freeman (off their PP victory!) coming down from the Summit in Parade - shaking every bystanders hand that stepped out to them:
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/PPIHC_Summit_Parade.jpg[/IMG]
Many Subaru teams serviced at Heurberger (sp) Subaru in Colorado Springs - who held a great Friday meet and all the SRT drivers signed posters for anyone who wanted.
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/PPIHC_SRTUSA.jpg[/IMG]
Oh yeah now I remember use Pirelli's - no bias in that decision whatsoever - ;)
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/SubieMeetMyCarPirelliGirls01.jpg[/IMG]
Ed.
Lovell and Freeman (off their PP victory!) coming down from the Summit in Parade - shaking every bystanders hand that stepped out to them:
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/PPIHC_Summit_Parade.jpg[/IMG]
Many Subaru teams serviced at Heurberger (sp) Subaru in Colorado Springs - who held a great Friday meet and all the SRT drivers signed posters for anyone who wanted.
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/PPIHC_SRTUSA.jpg[/IMG]
Oh yeah now I remember use Pirelli's - no bias in that decision whatsoever - ;)
[IMG]http://chargedperformance.com/images/SubieMeetMyCarPirelliGirls01.jpg[/IMG]
Ed.
| dch | 02-05-2004 08:35 PM |
Oh I almost forgot- I'm running my now 2004 looking STi, and Al Kintigh is running my GC8 STi 6. As far as I know my crew chief (Parker) only has two crew bodies lined up for that event. I'm not sure if he's accepting body parts :), but I'm sure he wouldn't mind a few able bodied mechanical types to help out. PM me or post something here if you're interested, and he can compile a list of potential vict- er, crewmembers :devil: and hopefully there will be enough where he can pick and choose those with the most gleaming resume. Our regular crew gig is airfare, hotel, on-event food/water/soda in the truck, and usually after event beverage festivites included. Beware the late nights and early mornings though. No whining allowed!
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://www.nbs-inc.com/Dch/ojibweservice.jpg[/IMG]
Edit: Mmmm.... Pirelli! :D
Cheers,
-Doug
[IMG]http://www.nbs-inc.com/Dch/ojibweservice.jpg[/IMG]
Edit: Mmmm.... Pirelli! :D
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 08:35 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by dch [/i]
[B]some cutting suggestions. [/B][/QUOTE]
Usually what I have seen them do is widen the gap between tread blocks and add an extra channel around the wheel on the most inside and most outside block. I have an action shot where you can see the cuts. I'll have to find it.:)
[B]some cutting suggestions. [/B][/QUOTE]
Usually what I have seen them do is widen the gap between tread blocks and add an extra channel around the wheel on the most inside and most outside block. I have an action shot where you can see the cuts. I'll have to find it.:)
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 08:38 PM |
If I make it as intended - anyone that needs two hands and a decent head can call on me. I come cheap too since I drive - though I usually stay at the campground since the nights are so nice there, I could rough it in a hotel though! :)
| johnfelstead | 02-05-2004 10:03 PM |
Make sure you dont use compressed air to fill the tyres. Use an inert gas such as nitrogen because you will be starting your run on tarmac so need the presures spot on from the off. Using Nitrogen will mean you have very little presure change through your run.
I would be looking at using a Rallycross tyre for this. This is European Rallycross, not USA Rallycross, two very diferent sports. Euro rallycross is a sport using highly developed rally cars in a circuit race, where 50% of the course is tarmac and 50% is loose gravel or shale. This is where all the GroupB rally cars went when they were banned at the end of 1996. There are tyres for this capable of handling 700BHP 4WD, so i would expect they will be ideal for a 13 mile run on mixed surfaces with a 300BHP/450lbft torque motor.
I would also look into getting a specific engine remap that is designed for the change in altitude, one that auto compensates for the lack of oxygen at the top of the run. You dont want the engine running too rich up the top of the hill as that kills power. You will have to find a balance between max boost and inlet charge temp at the higher altitudes as trying to run full boost will probably overheat the charge air and lose power compared to reducing your boost levels to letting the turbo stay in the sweet spot.
One of the most critical areas will be gearing. You may find you need diferent gearing to a normal rally stage. Try and find out the peak speeds and the length of time they are held, you dont want to be sitting on the limiter when you could be still pulling an extra 20MPH.
So wish i could drive that mountain, it's my kind of challenge. Best of luck!
I would be looking at using a Rallycross tyre for this. This is European Rallycross, not USA Rallycross, two very diferent sports. Euro rallycross is a sport using highly developed rally cars in a circuit race, where 50% of the course is tarmac and 50% is loose gravel or shale. This is where all the GroupB rally cars went when they were banned at the end of 1996. There are tyres for this capable of handling 700BHP 4WD, so i would expect they will be ideal for a 13 mile run on mixed surfaces with a 300BHP/450lbft torque motor.
I would also look into getting a specific engine remap that is designed for the change in altitude, one that auto compensates for the lack of oxygen at the top of the run. You dont want the engine running too rich up the top of the hill as that kills power. You will have to find a balance between max boost and inlet charge temp at the higher altitudes as trying to run full boost will probably overheat the charge air and lose power compared to reducing your boost levels to letting the turbo stay in the sweet spot.
One of the most critical areas will be gearing. You may find you need diferent gearing to a normal rally stage. Try and find out the peak speeds and the length of time they are held, you dont want to be sitting on the limiter when you could be still pulling an extra 20MPH.
So wish i could drive that mountain, it's my kind of challenge. Best of luck!
| johnfelstead | 02-05-2004 10:15 PM |
Here you go Doug. The tyres i was thinking of have actually won Pikes Peak. I didnt know that but just did a quick search and found this.
[url]http://www.avonracing.com/news/press_i.asp?T=P[/url]
"Per Eklund, the 1999 European Rallycross Champion, set a new record in the 78th running of the Adelphia Pikes Peak International Hill Climb in Colorado Springs, USA in a Saab fitted with Avon crossply racing tyres."
If you need technical contacts for Avon Racing let me know. The great thing about these crossply race tyres is you can get into very high slip angles without the nasty snap oversteer you get with a radial based race tyre. They are very easy to learn a new course on because they are very forgiving. They are also very light.
P.S Someone give me a car, i want to race there. ;):D
[url]http://www.avonracing.com/news/press_i.asp?T=P[/url]
"Per Eklund, the 1999 European Rallycross Champion, set a new record in the 78th running of the Adelphia Pikes Peak International Hill Climb in Colorado Springs, USA in a Saab fitted with Avon crossply racing tyres."
If you need technical contacts for Avon Racing let me know. The great thing about these crossply race tyres is you can get into very high slip angles without the nasty snap oversteer you get with a radial based race tyre. They are very easy to learn a new course on because they are very forgiving. They are also very light.
P.S Someone give me a car, i want to race there. ;):D
| turboICE | 02-05-2004 10:28 PM |
The funny thing is I think this race is more popular in Europe than the US - my friends from Ireland and England are all envious everytime I go - most people here shrug. Hopefully with the ProRally there now in full swing that will change it is a great hill climb.
| Chaste Automotive | 02-05-2004 10:31 PM |
Doug if you want a couple sets of those tires remember I do have a container coming:)
Did you end up needing any gravel rims?
What about Yoko A048? Just some ideas I am running into the same dilema we just decided to run Pikes Peak so we will have to work it out. Love to talk and I also need to pick up some of those footwells from you. Drop me an email or a call.
Did you end up needing any gravel rims?
What about Yoko A048? Just some ideas I am running into the same dilema we just decided to run Pikes Peak so we will have to work it out. Love to talk and I also need to pick up some of those footwells from you. Drop me an email or a call.
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 10:33 PM |
Here is the US Avon Tyre site:
[url]http://www.avontyres.com/us/en/default.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.avontyres.com/us/en/default.asp[/url]
| johnfelstead | 02-05-2004 10:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by turboICE [/i]
[B]The funny thing is I think this race is more popular in Europe than the US [/B][/QUOTE]
That probably goes back to the days when the GroupB rally cars decided to come tear you guys a new one. ;) Those things really woke Pikes Peak up and fired the imagination of European rally fans.
I would love to take something like a Radical SR3 turbo and run it up that hill, it would surprise a lot of people.
[B]The funny thing is I think this race is more popular in Europe than the US [/B][/QUOTE]
That probably goes back to the days when the GroupB rally cars decided to come tear you guys a new one. ;) Those things really woke Pikes Peak up and fired the imagination of European rally fans.
I would love to take something like a Radical SR3 turbo and run it up that hill, it would surprise a lot of people.
| rupertberr | 02-05-2004 10:38 PM |
I remember now...
Jeff Zwart would put his race wheels/tires in his Dad's SUV. They would crank the heat and let the car run for about half an hour (if not longer) before he took them out and put them on his Porsche and raced up the mountain.;)
Jeff Zwart would put his race wheels/tires in his Dad's SUV. They would crank the heat and let the car run for about half an hour (if not longer) before he took them out and put them on his Porsche and raced up the mountain.;)
| dch | 02-06-2004 02:09 PM |
Hmmm... Any suggestions as far as compounds go? For stage 2, the all tarmac stage of 10 miles, I would assume as soft as I could find would be best. I can't find much info on the BFG R1's. Would a Hoosier roadrace tire work well do ya think, or would they take too long to heat up?
For the other stages, compound might be a bit trickier. The whole 12 mile thing will be pretty hard on the tires. How do you pick a compound for that? I suppose I could give Avon a ring (ding-dong, calling Avon!).
For the other stages, compound might be a bit trickier. The whole 12 mile thing will be pretty hard on the tires. How do you pick a compound for that? I suppose I could give Avon a ring (ding-dong, calling Avon!).
| Tony | 02-06-2004 02:46 PM |
[quote]Would a Hoosier roadrace tire work well do ya think[/quote]
I think the Avon rallyx tires are probably the best bet but now that you mention Hoosiers. There is the Hoosier Dirt Stocker. That is what the autox guys use for a rain tire and it's intended use is smooth dirt at very high slip angles while putting down big horsepower. Worth a look.
Tony
I think the Avon rallyx tires are probably the best bet but now that you mention Hoosiers. There is the Hoosier Dirt Stocker. That is what the autox guys use for a rain tire and it's intended use is smooth dirt at very high slip angles while putting down big horsepower. Worth a look.
Tony
| dch | 02-06-2004 03:12 PM |
235/65-15 looks like the only thing that would come close to fitting. I wonder how that would compare to a hand-cut Avon.
[url]http://www.hoosiertire.com/otdtire.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.hoosiertire.com/otdtire.htm[/url]
| 10th Warrior | 02-06-2004 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE]I can't find much info on the BFG R1's[/QUOTE] great tire, but it was discontinued a few years back. besides, the latest crop of R's has eclipsed them. I would shy away from any of the "old" hoosiers (R3SO3) as they have a fiberglass belt. probably wouldn't survive long on the Hill. the new ones (R3SO4) have a steal belt. the Kumho R's might be a better combo. the 710s might be too thin. probably the Victos would be the best kumho offering (for tarmac only of course ;) ). of course, i really don't know what i'm talking about so you should probably ignore me :lol:
| dch | 02-06-2004 03:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
[B]of course, i really don't know what i'm talking about so you should probably ignore me :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I've never let that stop [b]me[/b] before! :)
I sent an e-mail to Avon to see what they might suggest. Hoosier pretty much told me and Mark Utecht that they didn't have anything that would last up the hill. I guess I have to believe them although I don't know if they were thinking about the Oval Track Dirt tires...
-Doug
[B]of course, i really don't know what i'm talking about so you should probably ignore me :lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
I've never let that stop [b]me[/b] before! :)
I sent an e-mail to Avon to see what they might suggest. Hoosier pretty much told me and Mark Utecht that they didn't have anything that would last up the hill. I guess I have to believe them although I don't know if they were thinking about the Oval Track Dirt tires...
-Doug
| bjorn240 | 02-15-2004 01:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnfelstead [/i]
[B]Here you go Doug. The tyres i was thinking of have actually won Pikes Peak. I didnt know that but just did a quick search and found this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
John, and Doug,
I spoke to Pekka about the 19" Avon Rallycross tires before we ran at PPIHC in 2003. His reviews were significantly less than stellar, and we ended up on other tires because of my discussion.
Doug, drop an email and we can chat about what we and Subaru ran last year.
Cheers,
- Christian
[B]Here you go Doug. The tyres i was thinking of have actually won Pikes Peak. I didnt know that but just did a quick search and found this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
John, and Doug,
I spoke to Pekka about the 19" Avon Rallycross tires before we ran at PPIHC in 2003. His reviews were significantly less than stellar, and we ended up on other tires because of my discussion.
Doug, drop an email and we can chat about what we and Subaru ran last year.
Cheers,
- Christian
| WRXedUSA | 02-15-2004 02:25 PM |
Damn,
If I could only remember what the stack of tyres were sitting out back of Heuberger.
They seemed like R compounds with deep cuts to deal with theloose stuff. Also, your starting order will definately determine what tire too. I recall the road being pretty cleaned off by the time the last few open class rally cars came through. The also used a "Tarmac adhesive" compound on the lower section (lower thatn picnic grounds) to make the loose gravel act more like asphalt.
Are you guys saying with the Prorally that there is going to be more stages?
I would seriously take Felstead's advice on engine mapping firstly. Some entrants used 3 entirely different maps for the event last year.
If I could only remember what the stack of tyres were sitting out back of Heuberger.
They seemed like R compounds with deep cuts to deal with theloose stuff. Also, your starting order will definately determine what tire too. I recall the road being pretty cleaned off by the time the last few open class rally cars came through. The also used a "Tarmac adhesive" compound on the lower section (lower thatn picnic grounds) to make the loose gravel act more like asphalt.
Are you guys saying with the Prorally that there is going to be more stages?
I would seriously take Felstead's advice on engine mapping firstly. Some entrants used 3 entirely different maps for the event last year.
| turboICE | 02-15-2004 10:50 PM |
I don't recall the brand sitting back there either but given the Pirelli sponsorship of the team I had assumed they were Pirellis. That could have been naive on my part.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét