| ArtGecko | 03-29-2004 11:42 PM |
Should a brand spankin' new driver autocross?
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There are a lot of experienced amateur and not so amateur drivers here, who have seen a lot of novice drivers participate in autocross events. I would like a discussion on the pros and cons of a brand spanking new driver participating in an autocross event.
Specifics: daughter is 15 11/12ths :D and bought her own 1991 Miata. Car is in excellent mechanical condition, but is on new generic all-season tires. It is an automatic. Ohio requires 50 hours of driving and 24 hours "in-car" class room driving. She will be attending the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course Teen Driving School, but that won't be until mid-summer.
The local SCCA (NEOhio) has suspended Solo II this year, so they won't be having a novice school. A local non-SCCA affiliate club will, but I am not too familiar with them.
She is a responsible driver, but has some trepidation like all new drivers. (Example: she didn't react quick enough to the pothole at 55 MPH Saturday, and blew the tire on Mom's car! However, she handled the resulting "emergency" efficiently and safely, only forgetting to turn on the flashers.)
She hasn't been to any autocrosses with me, so has no expectations other than the great vids downloaded here and on other sites.
So, can I please have some constructive discussion pro and con? I want her to read with me what those more experienced than I have seen in the past. Tales like the above (below) Off Course and Saturday's pot hole episode are starting to give Dad nervous twitters! Her birthday and the 2nd autocross are just weeks away. :eek:
Thanks Gang!
Steve
Specifics: daughter is 15 11/12ths :D and bought her own 1991 Miata. Car is in excellent mechanical condition, but is on new generic all-season tires. It is an automatic. Ohio requires 50 hours of driving and 24 hours "in-car" class room driving. She will be attending the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course Teen Driving School, but that won't be until mid-summer.
The local SCCA (NEOhio) has suspended Solo II this year, so they won't be having a novice school. A local non-SCCA affiliate club will, but I am not too familiar with them.
She is a responsible driver, but has some trepidation like all new drivers. (Example: she didn't react quick enough to the pothole at 55 MPH Saturday, and blew the tire on Mom's car! However, she handled the resulting "emergency" efficiently and safely, only forgetting to turn on the flashers.)
She hasn't been to any autocrosses with me, so has no expectations other than the great vids downloaded here and on other sites.
So, can I please have some constructive discussion pro and con? I want her to read with me what those more experienced than I have seen in the past. Tales like the above (below) Off Course and Saturday's pot hole episode are starting to give Dad nervous twitters! Her birthday and the 2nd autocross are just weeks away. :eek:
Thanks Gang!
Steve
| Kitsune | 03-30-2004 12:30 AM |
Taking her to a relatively safe location like an AutoX event could actually prove very beneficial in giving her more confidence in her driving, which in turn should help her react better to real life situations. Plus, it will allow her to become more familier with the handling dynamics of her car.
She'll learn how the car will react to situations that are not typically encountered in every day driving...until something goes wrong that is...A driver more familier with their car's dynamics and their own abilities will be a safer driver. Plus, she'll probably have a good time even in an automatic Miata. ;)
Keeping things relaxed is important though, it can be easy for someone to feel like they are doing something "wrong" if they start knocking over a few cones or get lost on the course.
She'll learn how the car will react to situations that are not typically encountered in every day driving...until something goes wrong that is...A driver more familier with their car's dynamics and their own abilities will be a safer driver. Plus, she'll probably have a good time even in an automatic Miata. ;)
Keeping things relaxed is important though, it can be easy for someone to feel like they are doing something "wrong" if they start knocking over a few cones or get lost on the course.
| Streetman | 03-30-2004 12:41 AM |
YES! Take her! 16 year olds have nearly a 100% chance (statistically) of an accident in their first year of driving. You need to get her more behind the wheel time ASAP, in a safe location. She'll learn how to control her car, and become a better (safer) driver.
One caveat. a2cpc in Indy got his son into autocross, at 16, I believe. A few years later, he kicks dad's ass on a regular basis. Your daughter will be safer. Your ego may be in danger. I'll alert a2cpc to this thread for some ELDERLY advice. :devil:
One caveat. a2cpc in Indy got his son into autocross, at 16, I believe. A few years later, he kicks dad's ass on a regular basis. Your daughter will be safer. Your ego may be in danger. I'll alert a2cpc to this thread for some ELDERLY advice. :devil:
| ChrisDP | 03-30-2004 01:03 AM |
Do it. No better way I can think of to safely teach a kid they don't know as much about driving as they think they do. This, coming from someone who was there not too long ago...
| Soontobe | 03-30-2004 01:46 AM |
Definately do it. I spent the first two years of driving my car on the streets pushing the limit. It only took me alittle over a month to wreck my car, and even after that, I continued to drive past the limit on the streets. After many a close call, I finally decided to cut that stuff out and start autocrossing.
Now that I am autocrossing, I am actually very fast :p haha. Considering I have driven my car past the limit on a regular basis for the last 2 years (Amazing I have only had one wreck). Something to not be too proud of I guess.
Moral of the story, should have started autocrossing the day I got it. In the end would have saved me from one wreck (didn't know the car well enough to get me out of a bad situation), and alot of close calls that could have been much worse. Also, after auto-x'ing, I dont feel the need to push my car on the streets, as I just wait and look forward to the next event. All in all, a good way to go, and it will help any driver.
Just one real story as to why to get your daughter into auto-x.
Now that I am autocrossing, I am actually very fast :p haha. Considering I have driven my car past the limit on a regular basis for the last 2 years (Amazing I have only had one wreck). Something to not be too proud of I guess.
Moral of the story, should have started autocrossing the day I got it. In the end would have saved me from one wreck (didn't know the car well enough to get me out of a bad situation), and alot of close calls that could have been much worse. Also, after auto-x'ing, I dont feel the need to push my car on the streets, as I just wait and look forward to the next event. All in all, a good way to go, and it will help any driver.
Just one real story as to why to get your daughter into auto-x.
| MK19_ | 03-30-2004 02:28 AM |
Heck, I wish I had that opportunity when I was just getting behind the wheel. I can assure you that if I ever have kids, I will get them involved as early as I can in SCCA events- it promotes a lot of great habits and it's fun to boot!!! I say go for it, no question about it!!!!!!!!
| NotAnRS | 03-30-2004 06:43 AM |
I can think of no negative to getting her on the autocross course. I started when I was still in my teens, and it definately improved my car control skills even at the low speeds typically found there. You learn a lot about weight transfer, tire adhesion properties and even hand placement on the steering wheel. I'd suggest asking whoever puts the event on for a seasoned competitor to ride with her and give some instruction. People typically will do better with a stranger than a family member.
Getting her on the Mid-Ohio track is going to be even better, but I think having a foundation in auto-x first will give her a real leg up on everyone else.
And if at all possible, take her to an auto-x in the rain! She needs to learn what a spin is and how to control it. Probably the most valuable thing you can learn (and the Miata is a wonderful platform to learn on).
Best of luck to you both. :)
Getting her on the Mid-Ohio track is going to be even better, but I think having a foundation in auto-x first will give her a real leg up on everyone else.
And if at all possible, take her to an auto-x in the rain! She needs to learn what a spin is and how to control it. Probably the most valuable thing you can learn (and the Miata is a wonderful platform to learn on).
Best of luck to you both. :)
| ellisnc | 03-30-2004 06:51 AM |
I'd be worried if you said you were going to put her in an STi or something like that on course... but in her car of choice I think it'd be totally fine and a great thing to help her learn to react quickly and not panic if she gets into a situation where car good car control is required.
OVR is having a driver's school this weekend (Sat)... I'll be at Mid Ohio otherwise I'd probably go and run a bunch. You can register at [url]www.myautoevents.com[/url]
The lot we run on is absolutely beautiful!
OVR is having a driver's school this weekend (Sat)... I'll be at Mid Ohio otherwise I'd probably go and run a bunch. You can register at [url]www.myautoevents.com[/url]
The lot we run on is absolutely beautiful!
| Storm | 03-30-2004 07:08 AM |
I agree with all the above, Steve. Bring her along this Sunday for the first event. You can ride along with her or have someone else responsible ride along just to make sure she keeps her focus. As long as she only pushes as far as she's comfortable, I think she'll quickly learn what makes the car do what, when and why. Don't forget about the school coming up May 2nd through ASCC or NORA.
Jay Storm
[url]www.sourcemotorsports.com[/url]
Jay Storm
[url]www.sourcemotorsports.com[/url]
| sdecker | 03-30-2004 07:53 AM |
Interesting that this is being brought up...
I have a 10 1/2 year old son with whom I am very close. He actually still 'listens' to Dad, haha!!! So, I thought I would take the opportunity to begin exposing him to cars, car control, 'adult' responsibility, etc.
I have been doing HPDE for several years now, but he can't really attend or do anything with me at those. So I picked up autox recently as an alternative.
With the appropriate minor waivers signed, he can:
1) Ride in the car with me, watching, feeling, and learning car control.
2) Have a work assignment with his Dad. I have us set up with the local waivers people so he can have a relatively 'safe' assignment.
3) Participate! I'm going to eyeball junior karts this year and see what fits him best. Naturally, he is *very* excited.
This seems like a great place to start him. After a few years of this, I figure he'll be in great shape to start getting serious about driving on the public roads. At that point, I will also put him into one or two of the various teen driving programs out there. Those things, combined with drilling him for years on being safe and responsible, should give him a great start.
ArtGecko, thanks for being a responsible parent and doing everything you can for your daughter and the rest of us. It's a shame that more people don't take advantage of this sort of thing.
Scott
I have a 10 1/2 year old son with whom I am very close. He actually still 'listens' to Dad, haha!!! So, I thought I would take the opportunity to begin exposing him to cars, car control, 'adult' responsibility, etc.
I have been doing HPDE for several years now, but he can't really attend or do anything with me at those. So I picked up autox recently as an alternative.
With the appropriate minor waivers signed, he can:
1) Ride in the car with me, watching, feeling, and learning car control.
2) Have a work assignment with his Dad. I have us set up with the local waivers people so he can have a relatively 'safe' assignment.
3) Participate! I'm going to eyeball junior karts this year and see what fits him best. Naturally, he is *very* excited.
This seems like a great place to start him. After a few years of this, I figure he'll be in great shape to start getting serious about driving on the public roads. At that point, I will also put him into one or two of the various teen driving programs out there. Those things, combined with drilling him for years on being safe and responsible, should give him a great start.
ArtGecko, thanks for being a responsible parent and doing everything you can for your daughter and the rest of us. It's a shame that more people don't take advantage of this sort of thing.
Scott
| BSLICKOH | 03-30-2004 04:02 PM |
One of the local (Dayton) guys has three daughters. All three have been running go-carts at autocross events for quite some time. The oldest became old enough to drive last year, so she's moved up to daddy's well-prepped Ford Probe GT as a co-driver.
Autocrossing builds driver skills. Anything that does that is A Good Thing. The teen clinic at the driver's ed school I attended ([url]http://www.masterdrive.com/[/url]) essentially was a full-weekend autocross.
Whether or not she is interested or has fun depends on her personality. I have not personally encountered too many females who find autocrossing to be entertaining (dammit). But at that age, I'm going to guess that any excuse to be behind the wheel will be eagerly accepted.
Autocrossing builds driver skills. Anything that does that is A Good Thing. The teen clinic at the driver's ed school I attended ([url]http://www.masterdrive.com/[/url]) essentially was a full-weekend autocross.
Whether or not she is interested or has fun depends on her personality. I have not personally encountered too many females who find autocrossing to be entertaining (dammit). But at that age, I'm going to guess that any excuse to be behind the wheel will be eagerly accepted.
| leecea | 03-30-2004 04:45 PM |
My daughter is only 14 but I have been thinking about this anyway. I definitely plan to let her autox when she's 16. I think it will be great experience and a great outlet as the previous posters have stated. I do have one concern though. My daughter is very sensible but also very competitive. I can imagine a situation where she would use her autox experience to prove something to someone on the road. I will have to have lots of discussion around the fact that autox style driving is NOT safe for the road and, no matter who is taunting you to keep up, don't do it. I think it will work out fine.
| dadswrx | 03-30-2004 04:59 PM |
Yes! I absolutely agree with everything everyone above has said. Plus, autocrossing will teach her the importance of looking ahead while she is driving. This is not only useful to find the next gate, but to have advanced warning of potholes and other potential hazards.
P.S. My daughters are 6 and 3 and they are already autocrossing their bigwheel around pylons setup in the driveway.
I'm so pathetic... :D
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
P.S. My daughters are 6 and 3 and they are already autocrossing their bigwheel around pylons setup in the driveway.
I'm so pathetic... :D
Mike
02 WRX Wagon
| jmott | 03-30-2004 05:30 PM |
should girls autocross....
yes absolutely
especially in the summer in houston
yes absolutely
especially in the summer in houston
| TyrannoSullyRex | 03-30-2004 05:37 PM |
There is a father here in Houston that has been bringing his daughter to the autocross for about a year and she finally got to participate a few days after her 16th birthday (autox at the beg of March). She did really well and it looks like she'll be wailing on her dad in no time, and he's no slouch. She is apparently a very responsible driver on the street as well, both hands on the wheel, eyes on the road, all that good stuff.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] should girls autocross....
yes absolutely
especially in the summer in houston [/B][/QUOTE]
:D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] should girls autocross....
yes absolutely
especially in the summer in houston [/B][/QUOTE]
:D
| ArtGecko | 03-30-2004 07:16 PM |
Thanks guys,
Great information! Don't get me wrong. We've talked about it, and are both enthusiastic about her autocrossing with me. My only concern was whether we should wait a few months. Give her a little chance to get the feel for driving a bit.
I just picture some over enthusiasm at a turn or finish, and slip off the pedal, or pick the wrong one! Or some other mistake that results in an unexpected situation.
Taking out the grid or spectator crowd isn't the quickest way to win friends at the first event. :D
Ego? Not me! I'd be pleased if she could be competitive with me. Gotta have some competition, as everyone else is way faster than me! ;)
Thanks again,
Steve
(Oh, BTW NotAnRS: The Mid-Ohio Teen Driving School doesn't get them on the track. They do wet pad lane change, emergency maneuvers, gimbled car driving, etc. on their upper paddock lot. If they got on the track, *I'd* be taking it! All I've done is the lunchtime parade in the MGA a few times...)
Great information! Don't get me wrong. We've talked about it, and are both enthusiastic about her autocrossing with me. My only concern was whether we should wait a few months. Give her a little chance to get the feel for driving a bit.
I just picture some over enthusiasm at a turn or finish, and slip off the pedal, or pick the wrong one! Or some other mistake that results in an unexpected situation.
Taking out the grid or spectator crowd isn't the quickest way to win friends at the first event. :D
Ego? Not me! I'd be pleased if she could be competitive with me. Gotta have some competition, as everyone else is way faster than me! ;)
Thanks again,
Steve
(Oh, BTW NotAnRS: The Mid-Ohio Teen Driving School doesn't get them on the track. They do wet pad lane change, emergency maneuvers, gimbled car driving, etc. on their upper paddock lot. If they got on the track, *I'd* be taking it! All I've done is the lunchtime parade in the MGA a few times...)
| jcroy66 | 03-30-2004 09:17 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker[/i]
[B] I have a 10 1/2 year old son with whom I am very close...
With the appropriate minor waivers signed, he can:
1) Ride in the car with me, watching, feeling, and learning car control.
2) Have a work assignment with his Dad. I have us set up with the local waivers people so he can have a relatively 'safe' assignment. [/B][/QUOTE]
Is this at an SCCA event or another club? If it's SCCA, I'm really surprised. At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) to be 12 to ride as a passenger at SCCA events. And you had to be 16, I believe, to be in any "hot" area (grid, course). That was even true for the junior kart drivers. We always had to find "non-hot" work assignments for them. It's actually in the SCCA rules that they can't be in any hot area. Of course, I think that may have been what you were saying (like if you worked gate waivers, that would by its very nature be a "non-hot" area).
So I was just curious if this event was an SCCA event or not.
[B] I have a 10 1/2 year old son with whom I am very close...
With the appropriate minor waivers signed, he can:
1) Ride in the car with me, watching, feeling, and learning car control.
2) Have a work assignment with his Dad. I have us set up with the local waivers people so he can have a relatively 'safe' assignment. [/B][/QUOTE]
Is this at an SCCA event or another club? If it's SCCA, I'm really surprised. At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) to be 12 to ride as a passenger at SCCA events. And you had to be 16, I believe, to be in any "hot" area (grid, course). That was even true for the junior kart drivers. We always had to find "non-hot" work assignments for them. It's actually in the SCCA rules that they can't be in any hot area. Of course, I think that may have been what you were saying (like if you worked gate waivers, that would by its very nature be a "non-hot" area).
So I was just curious if this event was an SCCA event or not.
| WRX-ECE | 03-30-2004 09:48 PM |
Do it, it will make her a better driver sooner.
I don't have kids yet but when I do I sure plan on getting them into racing as soon as they are old enough. We have a few <16yo cart racers in our region and it's great. I wish I was able to get into Auto-x sooner then 24!!
Since everyone has had good comments I'll offer the one concern I thought of, responsibility on the street, as leecea mentioned. You know your daughter and will know if it's a good idea to "arm" her with these skills. It's the same decision parents have to make when choosing to send their kids to karate, or teach them to shoot guns or any number of things.
When it comes to cars and girls, well she might feel the need to show off to her peers or prove she's as good as the boys. I wouldn't be too worried about her, but make sure she knows that her actions take along others, those peers that are trying to keep up and don't have the skills that she will now have.
That's the one reason I only drive "spirited" alone or with people I know well. I know what I can do, what my car can do (and can't!!!) and I know they know the same. When someone tries to "tag along" I know enough to back off and not play.
Jeremy
I don't have kids yet but when I do I sure plan on getting them into racing as soon as they are old enough. We have a few <16yo cart racers in our region and it's great. I wish I was able to get into Auto-x sooner then 24!!
Since everyone has had good comments I'll offer the one concern I thought of, responsibility on the street, as leecea mentioned. You know your daughter and will know if it's a good idea to "arm" her with these skills. It's the same decision parents have to make when choosing to send their kids to karate, or teach them to shoot guns or any number of things.
When it comes to cars and girls, well she might feel the need to show off to her peers or prove she's as good as the boys. I wouldn't be too worried about her, but make sure she knows that her actions take along others, those peers that are trying to keep up and don't have the skills that she will now have.
That's the one reason I only drive "spirited" alone or with people I know well. I know what I can do, what my car can do (and can't!!!) and I know they know the same. When someone tries to "tag along" I know enough to back off and not play.
Jeremy
| ArtGecko | 03-30-2004 11:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66 [/i]
[B]At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hi Jen :D Still a little hot?
<---- = Smorris
Jen is correct, and the other clubs in the area's insurance won't even allow riders under 16, even with waiver.
So no sense in taking her to the event before her birthday, as she can't get the feel for the ride, and no riding would make for a long day.
Thanks again,
Steve
[B]At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hi Jen :D Still a little hot?
<---- = Smorris
Jen is correct, and the other clubs in the area's insurance won't even allow riders under 16, even with waiver.
So no sense in taking her to the event before her birthday, as she can't get the feel for the ride, and no riding would make for a long day.
Thanks again,
Steve
| Skibum4444 | 03-31-2004 01:26 AM |
i started when i was 16. It really improved my driving.
| sdecker | 03-31-2004 07:10 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66 [/i]
[B]Is this at an SCCA event or another club? If it's SCCA, I'm really surprised. At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) to be 12 to ride as a passenger at SCCA events. And you had to be 16, I believe, to be in any "hot" area (grid, course). That was even true for the junior kart drivers. We always had to find "non-hot" work assignments for them. It's actually in the SCCA rules that they can't be in any hot area. Of course, I think that may have been what you were saying (like if you worked gate waivers, that would by its very nature be a "non-hot" area).
So I was just curious if this event was an SCCA event or not. [/B][/QUOTE]
:( :(
I just received further information yesterday afternoon from the local safety steward. It looks as though the minimum age for SCCA Atlanta region is 12, unfortunately. I can't even let the little guy ride along with me. :(
I'm bummed. I really want to autox with my little buddy. :(
Scott
[B]Is this at an SCCA event or another club? If it's SCCA, I'm really surprised. At least here in NeOhio, you had (would be "have", except that SCCA NeOhio isn't running a Solo2 program anymore. Grrrr.....) to be 12 to ride as a passenger at SCCA events. And you had to be 16, I believe, to be in any "hot" area (grid, course). That was even true for the junior kart drivers. We always had to find "non-hot" work assignments for them. It's actually in the SCCA rules that they can't be in any hot area. Of course, I think that may have been what you were saying (like if you worked gate waivers, that would by its very nature be a "non-hot" area).
So I was just curious if this event was an SCCA event or not. [/B][/QUOTE]
:( :(
I just received further information yesterday afternoon from the local safety steward. It looks as though the minimum age for SCCA Atlanta region is 12, unfortunately. I can't even let the little guy ride along with me. :(
I'm bummed. I really want to autox with my little buddy. :(
Scott
| jcroy66 | 03-31-2004 07:22 AM |
Sdecker, bummer. :( Sorry to hear that. :(
Steve, yep, I'd recognized you. :)
Steve, yep, I'd recognized you. :)
| sdecker | 03-31-2004 07:54 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66 [/i]
[B]Sdecker, bummer. :( Sorry to hear that. :(
[/B][/QUOTE]
So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;)
[B]Sdecker, bummer. :( Sorry to hear that. :(
[/B][/QUOTE]
So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;)
| WRX-ECE | 03-31-2004 09:28 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
In our region kart drivers have to be accompinied by an adult at all times right up to the starting line. Then they are met at the finish and escourted to a safe place not on grid to get out. Don't know if this is just us or an SCCA thing
[B]So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
In our region kart drivers have to be accompinied by an adult at all times right up to the starting line. Then they are met at the finish and escourted to a safe place not on grid to get out. Don't know if this is just us or an SCCA thing
| sdecker | 03-31-2004 09:38 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRX-ECE [/i]
[B]In our region kart drivers have to be accompinied by an adult at all times right up to the starting line. Then they are met at the finish and escourted to a safe place not on grid to get out. Don't know if this is just us or an SCCA thing [/B][/QUOTE]
Sure, and of course he would be escorted by me at all times. However, that still doesn't mean much. I mean, a car can roll off jackstands or a fire can start whether I'm there or not.
I'm not bitching here, I just think it's amusing that he can't get waivered to be in the pits, grid etc until age 12...unless he is a driver at age 8. After further conversation with local region muckety-mucks on the subject, they don't even know why this is so. "That's just how it is."...usually followed by a shrug.
It's all good. I'll figure out a way to get him involved.
Thanks for the responses. I now return you to your previously hijacked thread.
Scott
[B]In our region kart drivers have to be accompinied by an adult at all times right up to the starting line. Then they are met at the finish and escourted to a safe place not on grid to get out. Don't know if this is just us or an SCCA thing [/B][/QUOTE]
Sure, and of course he would be escorted by me at all times. However, that still doesn't mean much. I mean, a car can roll off jackstands or a fire can start whether I'm there or not.
I'm not bitching here, I just think it's amusing that he can't get waivered to be in the pits, grid etc until age 12...unless he is a driver at age 8. After further conversation with local region muckety-mucks on the subject, they don't even know why this is so. "That's just how it is."...usually followed by a shrug.
It's all good. I'll figure out a way to get him involved.
Thanks for the responses. I now return you to your previously hijacked thread.
Scott
| ITWRX4ME | 03-31-2004 03:44 PM |
Just to add to a resounding majority, I think autocross is a great place to learn car control skills. If I had a kid, I'd definitely let them attend any kind of motorsport event or HPDE for which they were eligible (and I could afford).
It's not just the car control that represents a learning opportunity either. The sportsmanship, course analysis, strategizing and the cycle of trial, error and adjustment are good skills to develop for all aspects of life. I could go on but you get the idea.
It's not just the car control that represents a learning opportunity either. The sportsmanship, course analysis, strategizing and the cycle of trial, error and adjustment are good skills to develop for all aspects of life. I could go on but you get the idea.
| EHobron | 03-31-2004 07:25 PM |
Just to reinforce the positive, ABSOLUTELY. This is the best time to learn good habits for superior car control.
Just remember to keep the "speed" at the autocross events.
Just remember to keep the "speed" at the autocross events.
| jmott | 03-31-2004 07:59 PM |
its all about insurance companies and what they will tolerate.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sdecker [/i]
[B]So get this!!!
He can participate in Formula Junior as a driver at age EIGHT.
This by definition means he must be in the grid, the hot pits, and on the course.
Doesn't that seem kind of silly? I understand that a junior kart is not anything at all like a car in terms of damage causing potential, but I don't know...seems a little weird to me.
Guess I'll have to buy him a junior kart. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
| Soontobe | 04-01-2004 12:03 AM |
To add alittle more about the age thing.
From what I have seen, the karts aren't even really IN the grid. They are usually started right by the first timing gate, and the grid is usually somewhat off. So its not like the karts are actually in the grid, and inturn, neither are the <12 year old kids.
From what I have seen, the karts aren't even really IN the grid. They are usually started right by the first timing gate, and the grid is usually somewhat off. So its not like the karts are actually in the grid, and inturn, neither are the <12 year old kids.
| afpdl | 04-01-2004 12:38 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Soontobe[/i]
[B] To add alittle more about the age thing.
From what I have seen, the karts aren't even really IN the grid. They are usually started right by the first timing gate, and the grid is usually somewhat off. So its not like the karts are actually in the grid, and inturn, neither are the <12 year old kids. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah the normally keep all the juniors together right by the start in their own section. The non junior karts grid with all the other cars.
[B] To add alittle more about the age thing.
From what I have seen, the karts aren't even really IN the grid. They are usually started right by the first timing gate, and the grid is usually somewhat off. So its not like the karts are actually in the grid, and inturn, neither are the <12 year old kids. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah the normally keep all the juniors together right by the start in their own section. The non junior karts grid with all the other cars.
| sdecker | 04-01-2004 07:34 AM |
Yeah, I hear you guys. It's just one of those bizarre things done in the name of safety and lawsuit prevention. No big deal, I'll just have to buy the boy a kart and be done with it.
Anybody know where I can get good info on karting that is *specific* to autox? There are plenty of resources on the net but they all seem to be oriented towards sprint, race, oval, etc.
TIA,
Scott
Anybody know where I can get good info on karting that is *specific* to autox? There are plenty of resources on the net but they all seem to be oriented towards sprint, race, oval, etc.
TIA,
Scott
| jcroy66 | 04-01-2004 08:14 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] Yeah the normally keep all the juniors together right by the start in their own section. The non junior karts grid with all the other cars. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, that surprises me too. I would recommend not even gridding any adult-driven-karts with the normal cars (unless there are enough of them to have their own row/section/etc). The karts are quite tiny, and could get driven over way too easily. Admittedly, the potential also exists with an F500 in F-mod (it was kinda intimidating the one time I drove one, to see that the bumper of the car in line behind me was right about at my head). But a legal F-mod car has a full roll cage. And it IS bigger than a kart. I would just worry that the kart drivers could become a speed bump. :(
[B] Yeah the normally keep all the juniors together right by the start in their own section. The non junior karts grid with all the other cars. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, that surprises me too. I would recommend not even gridding any adult-driven-karts with the normal cars (unless there are enough of them to have their own row/section/etc). The karts are quite tiny, and could get driven over way too easily. Admittedly, the potential also exists with an F500 in F-mod (it was kinda intimidating the one time I drove one, to see that the bumper of the car in line behind me was right about at my head). But a legal F-mod car has a full roll cage. And it IS bigger than a kart. I would just worry that the kart drivers could become a speed bump. :(
| KoneKiller | 04-01-2004 10:17 AM |
If you are serious about getting your children into the world of motorsports, there is also 'pure' karting. Kids as young as 5 or 6 have dedicated classes. The karts for those age groups are painfullly slow by our standards, but they require skill to drive. It's great to see the little guys and girls learning to drive, to give and take and they really do develop excellent car control skills.
By the time they are 12 or so, they are amazingly good! <note tinge of 'envy green'>
By the time they are 12 or so, they are amazingly good! <note tinge of 'envy green'>
| TyrannoSullyRex | 04-01-2004 10:53 AM |
If they are still airing any of them check out Gold Star Racing on Discovery Channel, it's funny and interesting.
| afpdl | 04-01-2004 02:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66[/i]
[B] Actually, that surprises me too. I would recommend not even gridding any adult-driven-karts with the normal cars (unless there are enough of them to have their own row/section/etc). The karts are quite tiny, and could get driven over way too easily. Admittedly, the potential also exists with an F500 in F-mod (it was kinda intimidating the one time I drove one, to see that the bumper of the car in line behind me was right about at my head). But a legal F-mod car has a full roll cage. And it IS bigger than a kart. I would just worry that the kart drivers could become a speed bump. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
The adult driven karts are on stands about 4 feet high. If anyone runs over one of those they have serious problems. Its grids job to get them safely to the starting line.
And yes Gold star racing was the funnay.
[B] Actually, that surprises me too. I would recommend not even gridding any adult-driven-karts with the normal cars (unless there are enough of them to have their own row/section/etc). The karts are quite tiny, and could get driven over way too easily. Admittedly, the potential also exists with an F500 in F-mod (it was kinda intimidating the one time I drove one, to see that the bumper of the car in line behind me was right about at my head). But a legal F-mod car has a full roll cage. And it IS bigger than a kart. I would just worry that the kart drivers could become a speed bump. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
The adult driven karts are on stands about 4 feet high. If anyone runs over one of those they have serious problems. Its grids job to get them safely to the starting line.
And yes Gold star racing was the funnay.
| jcroy66 | 04-01-2004 06:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] The adult driven karts are on stands about 4 feet high. If anyone runs over one of those they have serious problems. Its grids job to get them safely to the starting line. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ah. OK. Here locally, the kart drivers only put them back on the stands after their runs. The kids usually continue to sit in their karts (on the ground) between their runs.
[B] The adult driven karts are on stands about 4 feet high. If anyone runs over one of those they have serious problems. Its grids job to get them safely to the starting line. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ah. OK. Here locally, the kart drivers only put them back on the stands after their runs. The kids usually continue to sit in their karts (on the ground) between their runs.
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