| Zuffy | 11-14-2004 03:54 PM |
STi struts for D-stock?
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Hey Guys, anyone try using STi struts for D-stock competition? I'm wondering if this would be legal since I don't know if the spring perch for an STi strut would be in the same relative position to the strut bottom, as the stock WRX strut would be. Any one ever compare the STi strut body with a stock WRX one side by side?
| afpdl | 11-14-2004 04:27 PM |
I didnt measure or anythign but holding them next to eachother I could tell no differences betweent he strut bodies besides the color.
| solo-x | 11-15-2004 07:46 AM |
waste of time. the STi valving isn't anywhere near what OTS koni's have.
nate - it's what is inside that counts...
nate - it's what is inside that counts...
| Rebellion | 11-15-2004 08:56 AM |
they're legal yes... but the Koni's are a better option.
| DrBiggly | 11-15-2004 10:21 AM |
Konis all the way. Unless you were getting some crazy deal on the STi struts I don't think the upgrade would really be worth it unless you have really worn out struts on an '02/'03 WRX. The '04+ WRXs have better struts than the previous cars did and for stock really are suprisingly better than the '02/'03 struts. The jump to the STi strut wouldn't be that advantageous really; you'd end up horribly overdamped. :)
| Zuffy | 11-15-2004 01:15 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]The jump to the STi strut wouldn't be that advantageous really; you'd end up horribly overdamped. :)[/QUOTE]
Your right, I'm pretty happy with the damping of the 04 struts. I was hoping that the extra damping (for sure overdamped for stock WRX springs) of the STi struts would help with the response of the car a little bit, especially through the slaloms. Would horribly overdamped be that bad?
Now, for the koni inserts would they work for a 04 strut, and 04 top hats?
Your right, I'm pretty happy with the damping of the 04 struts. I was hoping that the extra damping (for sure overdamped for stock WRX springs) of the STi struts would help with the response of the car a little bit, especially through the slaloms. Would horribly overdamped be that bad?
Now, for the koni inserts would they work for a 04 strut, and 04 top hats?
| DrBiggly | 11-15-2004 01:33 PM |
For slaloms, try a front swaybar. You'll be very pleasantly shocked. :)
| MulletSlayer | 11-15-2004 03:12 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]For slaloms, try a front swaybar. You'll be very pleasantly shocked. :)[/QUOTE]
How big of a front swaybar?
How big of a front swaybar?
| afpdl | 11-15-2004 03:14 PM |
Biggest you can find.
| DrBiggly | 11-15-2004 04:57 PM |
If he's staying stock class, yes I'd recommend a big fat one; 25-27mm from Whiteline is the biggest you can get I believe. :)
| Zuffy | 11-15-2004 11:13 PM |
The 04 WRX's have smaller RSB's (17mm.) I'm very curious to see if the minimize front camber loss can help with the FSB, but do you think that getting a really big front bar might cause too much of an imbalance?
| afpdl | 11-15-2004 11:28 PM |
The biggAr the front bar the bettAr. Get the car to rotate with shocks and tire pressures.
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 12:14 AM |
What afpdl said. :)
| solo-x | 11-16-2004 08:22 AM |
overdamped with STi dampers and stock springs?? not likely.
the idea of overdamped or underdamped is rather misleading anyhow. generally speaking, at low piston velocities, we WANT the chassis to be "overdamped". at high piston velocities, we want it "underdamped". an OEM shock isn't going to make as strong of a distinction between low speed/high speed as a good sport, or even better, race shock. that's if it makes a distinction at all. further, most OEM shocks generally generate way too much bump force and very little rebound force.
the STi dampers might be an amazing OEM damper. only way to find out is to have them dynoed. based on what typically happens with an OEM damper, i don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to over/under damping. (in the sense of it causing an additional problem at least) if the STi damper is like all the other OEM's out there it's likely underdamped in all the areas we want the chassis overdamped, and overdamped in all the areas we want the chassis underdamped.
nate
+1 for big front bar
the idea of overdamped or underdamped is rather misleading anyhow. generally speaking, at low piston velocities, we WANT the chassis to be "overdamped". at high piston velocities, we want it "underdamped". an OEM shock isn't going to make as strong of a distinction between low speed/high speed as a good sport, or even better, race shock. that's if it makes a distinction at all. further, most OEM shocks generally generate way too much bump force and very little rebound force.
the STi dampers might be an amazing OEM damper. only way to find out is to have them dynoed. based on what typically happens with an OEM damper, i don't think you have anything to worry about when it comes to over/under damping. (in the sense of it causing an additional problem at least) if the STi damper is like all the other OEM's out there it's likely underdamped in all the areas we want the chassis overdamped, and overdamped in all the areas we want the chassis underdamped.
nate
+1 for big front bar
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 11:10 AM |
Nate,
I agree and for autox what you say is absolutely spot on. However in terms of street driving the STi struts are overdamped at low piston velocities, which is why all the STi n00bs whine about the "bouncy ride." :rolleyes: (If they only knew how great the car was compared to a few years ago!) As far as the damping at high piston velocities, I can't comment as I haven't driven a stock STi really much at all (all the ones I drive have been modified although I've ridden in quite a few.) Changing the stock springs to the "JDM Pink" springs has been the answer to hundreds of STi owners (that and the group N tops.) I've ridden in the before and driven the after and the change is remarkable. (Drops the car a little less than an inch but is up quite a big up on the spring rate for the car.)
As far as OEM dampers go, the (Version 8 here, not Version 7) STi struts really are pretty good. Tom Hoppe put 325f and 300r Ground Control springs on Miranda's STi and that works out really well (although I wouldn't recommend it for most folks.) :)
I agree and for autox what you say is absolutely spot on. However in terms of street driving the STi struts are overdamped at low piston velocities, which is why all the STi n00bs whine about the "bouncy ride." :rolleyes: (If they only knew how great the car was compared to a few years ago!) As far as the damping at high piston velocities, I can't comment as I haven't driven a stock STi really much at all (all the ones I drive have been modified although I've ridden in quite a few.) Changing the stock springs to the "JDM Pink" springs has been the answer to hundreds of STi owners (that and the group N tops.) I've ridden in the before and driven the after and the change is remarkable. (Drops the car a little less than an inch but is up quite a big up on the spring rate for the car.)
As far as OEM dampers go, the (Version 8 here, not Version 7) STi struts really are pretty good. Tom Hoppe put 325f and 300r Ground Control springs on Miranda's STi and that works out really well (although I wouldn't recommend it for most folks.) :)
| afpdl | 11-16-2004 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]which is why all the STi n00bs whine about the "bouncy ride." :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
Hey what do you want us to say? The ride sucked :p I just dont get why subaru would put lower spring rates on the car which detract from both performance and the ride quaility.
Hey what do you want us to say? The ride sucked :p I just dont get why subaru would put lower spring rates on the car which detract from both performance and the ride quaility.
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 01:26 PM |
I never thought the ride was bad in a stock STi. I'm talking about the folks who saw it in some magazine and bought one rather than folks who have been around Subarus long enough to realize how far of an advancement the car was to start with. :)
| afpdl | 11-16-2004 01:40 PM |
Well Id been around for awhile and it was a big advancement but the ride still sucked;)
| Zuffy | 11-16-2004 02:33 PM |
Hummmm, you guys have got me thinking again about getting V8 struts for D-stock. Sounds like the extra low speed damping for STi's is desirable for auto-x, for quicker "loading" up of the tires during turn-in. I guess more extreme would be adjustable STi struts for D-stock, but I guess that would really be over damping since those were designed for 6kg/5kg springs.
Hummmmm, V8 struts and stock WRX springs...
Hummmmm, V8 struts and stock WRX springs...
| afpdl | 11-16-2004 02:35 PM |
Why would you do the big dollar adjustable sti struts over koni inserts for a fraction of the cost?
| Zuffy | 11-16-2004 02:37 PM |
I don't like the idea of cutting up my stock struts, and then their is the problem with the 04 rear strut top mounts not being compatible with the Koni 02-03 WRX strut ends.
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 02:43 PM |
The Konis would be more competitive than the STi big money stuff IMO. Call Koni and ask how to make it work. If you have enough money to do the overpriced STi coilover setup and only use the strut part then you can get some really sweet Koni DAs and really put a hurting on D-stock that way. :)
| MulletSlayer | 11-16-2004 04:05 PM |
Could you run the 03 tophats on an 04 car and still run in DS?
| leecea | 11-16-2004 04:07 PM |
[QUOTE]you can get some really sweet Koni DAs and really put a hurting on D-stock that way[/QUOTE]
I'm interested in knowing how much difference having my OTS Konis converted would make for DS. I think it's pretty expensive, so I'd want to see something good from it. Has anyone tried it? What type of benefit did you see?
I'm interested in knowing how much difference having my OTS Konis converted would make for DS. I think it's pretty expensive, so I'd want to see something good from it. Has anyone tried it? What type of benefit did you see?
| leecea | 11-16-2004 04:09 PM |
[QUOTE]Could you run the 03 tophats on an 04 car and still run in DS?[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing no. No update/backdate allowed in Stock and top hats are not on the allowed change list.
I'm guessing no. No update/backdate allowed in Stock and top hats are not on the allowed change list.
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 04:48 PM |
If they were the same part number, then sure. If it didn't change between those years there is no issue. But why would one do that? :confused:
As far as having Konis converted, talk to Lee Grimes. Mike King had a set of DAs this year in STX and did very well. He was in the top 3 at Nationals I think? :)
(Do note that Mike King is a very good driver; don't expect the exact same results) :)
As far as having Konis converted, talk to Lee Grimes. Mike King had a set of DAs this year in STX and did very well. He was in the top 3 at Nationals I think? :)
(Do note that Mike King is a very good driver; don't expect the exact same results) :)
| MulletSlayer | 11-16-2004 04:57 PM |
This is probably a really stupid question, but I have searched and can't find anything.
What are the Koni DAs? I don't see anything in the Koni catalog. Are they just a revalved strut insert, strut or coilover coverted to run with a stock spring?.
I though you had to run coilovers to be competitive in STX.
What are the Koni DAs? I don't see anything in the Koni catalog. Are they just a revalved strut insert, strut or coilover coverted to run with a stock spring?.
I though you had to run coilovers to be competitive in STX.
| afpdl | 11-16-2004 05:27 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea]I'm guessing no. No update/backdate allowed in Stock and top hats are not on the allowed change list.[/QUOTE]
Unless the strut top is considered a part of the strut.
Unless the strut top is considered a part of the strut.
| afpdl | 11-16-2004 05:28 PM |
What DAs fit in the wrx struts?
| TyrannoSullyRex | 11-16-2004 05:32 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]What DAs fit in the wrx struts?[/QUOTE]
The wet kit you get custom made for ~$2K at [url=http://www.propartsusa.com]ProParts[/url] or somewhere similar.
The wet kit you get custom made for ~$2K at [url=http://www.propartsusa.com]ProParts[/url] or somewhere similar.
| DrBiggly | 11-16-2004 07:14 PM |
[quote=MulletSlayer]What are the Koni DAs? I don't see anything in the Koni catalog. Are they just a revalved strut insert, strut or coilover coverted to run with a stock spring?.[/quote]
Koni DAs are the Koni Double Adjustable series struts. (They offer separate compression and rebound settings, where the yellows offer rebound only.)
[quote=afpdl]What DAs fit in the wrx struts?[/quote]
Not sure what DA's fit in the WRX struts; probably need to be some sort of custom setup. If you are truly interested I'd talk to Lee Grimes. I know one can have it done, just not exactly the cost nor where to get it other than direct from them. I don't think there is an off-the-shelf setup for DAs for WRXs.
[quote=MulletSlayer]
I though you had to run coilovers to be competitive in STX.[/quote]
Competitive on what level? Local? State? Regional? National?
Depending on who is in your region, locally, and your own skill level, you could get by without coilovers; just some big fat bars, a set of camber plates, and something like V8 takeoffs and Pinks would work just fine. (An alignment is assumed in there.) The answer to everything is: It depends. For Nationals it's a must-have for sure. Otherwise, nothing for sure. :)
Koni DAs are the Koni Double Adjustable series struts. (They offer separate compression and rebound settings, where the yellows offer rebound only.)
[quote=afpdl]What DAs fit in the wrx struts?[/quote]
Not sure what DA's fit in the WRX struts; probably need to be some sort of custom setup. If you are truly interested I'd talk to Lee Grimes. I know one can have it done, just not exactly the cost nor where to get it other than direct from them. I don't think there is an off-the-shelf setup for DAs for WRXs.
[quote=MulletSlayer]
I though you had to run coilovers to be competitive in STX.[/quote]
Competitive on what level? Local? State? Regional? National?
Depending on who is in your region, locally, and your own skill level, you could get by without coilovers; just some big fat bars, a set of camber plates, and something like V8 takeoffs and Pinks would work just fine. (An alignment is assumed in there.) The answer to everything is: It depends. For Nationals it's a must-have for sure. Otherwise, nothing for sure. :)
| Zuffy | 01-09-2005 01:45 PM |
Still curious to see if anyone has run STi struts with stock WRX springs for d-stock auto-x.
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