| WRCar | 07-14-2004 03:37 PM |
WRC Argentina
�
�
w00t w00t!!!
Rally Argentina... 1 more day. Can anyone beat Loeb? Can Petter put together a clean run? Will Gronholm blow a gasket? What the heck has happened to Martin I can't wait!!!!
:banana:
[i]edited out swearing/cursing - dodging of nasioc.com swear filter- please re-read the rules - this type of behavior is not welcomed here.[/i]
Rally Argentina... 1 more day. Can anyone beat Loeb? Can Petter put together a clean run? Will Gronholm blow a gasket? What the heck has happened to Martin I can't wait!!!!
:banana:
[i]edited out swearing/cursing - dodging of nasioc.com swear filter- please re-read the rules - this type of behavior is not welcomed here.[/i]
| Scooby South | 07-14-2004 04:01 PM |
Go Petter...time to make THAT move...
Oh and sticky'd..;)
Oh and sticky'd..;)
| bemani | 07-14-2004 04:27 PM |
Show them who's boss, Petter!
| WRCar | 07-14-2004 07:41 PM |
I think it's ab00t time for Citroen to have some bad luck... when was the last time Seb had real trouble?
| AndyRoo | 07-15-2004 01:33 PM |
this is turning out to be a pretty damn good championship.
goooo petter!!!
goooo petter!!!
| datageek | 07-15-2004 03:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRCar [/i]
[B]when was the last time Seb had real trouble? [/B][/QUOTE]
Mexico -- the last time the WRC came to the Americas! :D
Marcus and Harri set fastest times in Shakedown, followed by Petter.
Three more hours to go until the Superspecial. :banana: I love rallies that aren't eight or nine time zones over!
[B]when was the last time Seb had real trouble? [/B][/QUOTE]
Mexico -- the last time the WRC came to the Americas! :D
Marcus and Harri set fastest times in Shakedown, followed by Petter.
Three more hours to go until the Superspecial. :banana: I love rallies that aren't eight or nine time zones over!
| 10th Warrior | 07-15-2004 03:54 PM |
i'm just happy they've returned to El Condor :D that stage is soooo cool :banana:
| WRCar | 07-15-2004 07:42 PM |
SS2: Solberg takes the early lead
�
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w000000000000000000000t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's all over!!!! SS2 that is. Good to see Martin doing well. Also good to see Seb not winning ;)
It's all over!!!! SS2 that is. Good to see Martin doing well. Also good to see Seb not winning ;)
| 2cam16 | 07-15-2004 11:58 PM |
Go Petter !!
| Scooby South | 07-16-2004 10:31 AM |
What happend in STg 5 ....Petter dropped to 6th overall...
Oh NOs...
Info...anything out there yet..
Oh NOs...
Info...anything out there yet..
| SlideWRX | 07-16-2004 10:43 AM |
'Marcus Gronholm leaps into the lead as Petter Solberg slows after a watersplash and Markko Martin rolls out of the rally... '
From WRC.com, but they don't actually have the article written yet...
It was shaping up to be a good run for Martin - that roll sucks!
Tom
From WRC.com, but they don't actually have the article written yet...
It was shaping up to be a good run for Martin - that roll sucks!
Tom
| bemani | 07-16-2004 02:28 PM |
Water broke the car again?
[quote]Seb not winning ;) [/QUOTE]
w00t! :banana:
[quote]Seb not winning ;) [/QUOTE]
w00t! :banana:
| 10th Warrior | 07-16-2004 02:50 PM |
Sainz is in the lead now.
| Jewbaru | 07-16-2004 03:48 PM |
And petter dropped ~7 minutes. Don't see him in the splits for the next stage. :rolleyes:
| datageek | 07-16-2004 04:04 PM |
From Worldrallynews:
PETTER SOLBERG
Subaru RETIRED - Car caught fire in stage, reason uncertain, however, prior to the fire the engine was rattling. Since completing the stage has retired with engine trouble
PETTER SOLBERG
Subaru RETIRED - Car caught fire in stage, reason uncertain, however, prior to the fire the engine was rattling. Since completing the stage has retired with engine trouble
| 10th Warrior | 07-16-2004 04:06 PM |
yup, from bad to worse. the top Subaru is now a GrN car (on SS9, i should say) :o GO SAINZ!
| Scooby South | 07-16-2004 04:31 PM |
This huge gap was created by the tribulations of some other drivers. Petter Solberg, who was previously in fourth position, had an engine problem. His Subaru caught on fire and then the engine had a permanent failure.
| Thumper23 | 07-16-2004 05:11 PM |
well sweet
| bemani | 07-16-2004 06:35 PM |
Should've just drove into the water splash. :D
Give the man a break ... first its water, then fire. Damn Loeb's pulling away in points :(
Give the man a break ... first its water, then fire. Damn Loeb's pulling away in points :(
| WRXMaster | 07-16-2004 07:24 PM |
You can see marcos crash here
[URL=http://www.zone.ee/focushistory/Markko_crash.wmv]marcos crash [/URL]
[URL=http://www.zone.ee/focushistory/Markko_crash.wmv]marcos crash [/URL]
| Ryan24 | 07-16-2004 09:24 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXMaster[/i]
[B] You can see marcos crash here
[URL=http://www.zone.ee/focushistory/Markko_crash.wmv]marcos crash [/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Looks like the same thing that Tommi M did a few years ago
[B] You can see marcos crash here
[URL=http://www.zone.ee/focushistory/Markko_crash.wmv]marcos crash [/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Looks like the same thing that Tommi M did a few years ago
| epoth | 07-19-2004 07:16 AM |
I was sorry to watch Solberg go down due to the same water splash. Not good at all. :(
| joe z | 07-19-2004 07:26 AM |
ouch!!! i missed that whne iwas watching last night
| Calamity Jesus | 07-19-2004 09:44 AM |
Wow.. you could almost see the intercooler being shoved up into the hood as he hit the water. Apparently nobody addressed the memo regarding Subaru's distain for water to Team 555.
Glad to see that Markko was in one piece. That WRC Focus was in rough shape [major understatement].
Glad to see that Markko was in one piece. That WRC Focus was in rough shape [major understatement].
| wrxited | 07-19-2004 09:54 AM |
Hey, I'm from Argentina....
| Rallycarperson | 07-19-2004 10:14 AM |
dont get whats wrong...
�
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There is a major problem with the Subaru's front bumper. I dont get whats wrong??? :confused: Whenever it hits the water, even at slow speed, the whole bumper gets crushed and the intercooler gets crushed also. This causes the ECU to limit the power due to the damage to prevent the engine from overheating or blowing. The front bumper maybe causing too much downforce, sucking the front of the car under water. Also the front bumper maybe too low to the ground causing it to colapse on every deep watersplash. But whats really stupid is that no other cars are the same! :furious:
-Mark
[url]www.MAPmotors.com[/url]
-Mark
[url]www.MAPmotors.com[/url]
| Boxologist | 07-19-2004 10:35 AM |
The front air damn was mentioned as being a problem and functioning as a scoop in water hazards. i expect a second facia to be created using larger canards if water spashes are going to be seen on a rally.
congrats to carlos, and Mikko Hiroven. Having to go solo for the last day and placing high should build his confidence.
congrats to carlos, and Mikko Hiroven. Having to go solo for the last day and placing high should build his confidence.
| driggity | 07-19-2004 12:00 PM |
Well, we know that the Subaru front bumper can effectively channel dirt into the radiator to overheat the engine, and channel water into the engine compartment to kill it. Now it just needs to be tested in snowplow mode and it can be a triple threat of bad design.
It is nice to watch Mikko's progression and it was good to see Sainz get the win. And Petter's pace was great until the Subaru turned into a submarine.
It is nice to watch Mikko's progression and it was good to see Sainz get the win. And Petter's pace was great until the Subaru turned into a submarine.
| Thumper23 | 07-19-2004 12:14 PM |
Seb needs some retirements now, he's got a good point lead
| bemani | 07-19-2004 12:53 PM |
Dang, it would've helped if Marcus was just content with even a 2nd place so Seb wouldn't get 8 points ...
:monkey:
Prodrive REALLY messed up on this one. Luckily, no water in Finland ...
17 points ... that'd be hard to catch :(
:monkey:
Prodrive REALLY messed up on this one. Luckily, no water in Finland ...
17 points ... that'd be hard to catch :(
| nitrohuffer | 07-19-2004 01:43 PM |
I was so pissed last night. He hit the second water crossing 34kph slower and it still ruined the car. Someone is going to hear it from managment. It happened on the last event. Fix it! As soon as gronholm (sp?) retired I had no intrest in watching the rest of the rally. :furious:
| wrrrx | 07-19-2004 02:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Boxologist]The front air damn was mentioned as being a problem and functioning as a scoop in water hazards. i expect a second facia to be created using larger canards if water spashes are going to be seen on a rally.
congrats to carlos, and Mikko Hiroven. Having to go solo for the last day and placing high should build his confidence.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm very glad for Carlos- and the crowd must have been verrrry happy.
However, I'm not particularly happy- I can't believe Prodrive/SWRT didn't fix this after the previous rally!!! :mad:
You remember- the one where Petter had problems w/ the front of the car opening up after going through a water splash?
Here, let me quote from wrc.com's coverage of [B]last month's[/B] Rally of Turkey;
[quote]
Subaru drivers Petter Solberg and Mikko Hirvonen have been the latest drivers to recount their side of the story after suffering in the SS4 watersplash that claimed Mitsubishi's Gianluiggi Galli and slowed Ford's Markko Martin.
Solberg suffered air intake damage after negotiating the hazard on the second run through the 28.98km Phaselis stage - many drivers have agreed that it was far deeper on the second run through, at a time when they were more confident and faster, and so attacked it with greater speed. The Norwegian lost around 30 seconds to his rivals, and now lies third, 49.7s behind leader Sebastien Loeb.
"It's hard to believe the damage that the water did," Solberg said. "It lifted the bonnet up and crushed the air intake duct. We weren't going so fast - it was a third-gear section - but, with the intake blocked, we lost power for the rest of the stage. We worked as much as we could to sort things out as best as possible and it was okay on the next stage. It's certainly not a disaster. There's still a long way to go."
Hirvonen was also caught out by the watersplash, but his time loss proved to be more substantial. He was also compounded by a spin at the final corner of the stage in which he received damage to the radiator when he hit a rock embedded in the grass bank bordering the stage.
"The engine almost stalled," he said. "Then I think I'd got water in a few places as the engine started misfiring and the clutch started slipping. After the stage and the spin, I managed to fix the radiator on the road section, but had to drive in the last stage without the anti-lag to try and prevent the engine overheating. I feel a little unlucky at the minute, but there's still a long way to go." [/quote]
Sound familiar??
Uh, HELLOOO- Prodrive? Maybe you oughtta consider that next time, before you enter the rally with more watersplashes than all others combined!?! Sorry, Lapworth, Richards, etc- you guys [B]totally[/B] dropped that ball! :furious:
Russ R
congrats to carlos, and Mikko Hiroven. Having to go solo for the last day and placing high should build his confidence.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm very glad for Carlos- and the crowd must have been verrrry happy.
However, I'm not particularly happy- I can't believe Prodrive/SWRT didn't fix this after the previous rally!!! :mad:
You remember- the one where Petter had problems w/ the front of the car opening up after going through a water splash?
Here, let me quote from wrc.com's coverage of [B]last month's[/B] Rally of Turkey;
[quote]
Subaru drivers Petter Solberg and Mikko Hirvonen have been the latest drivers to recount their side of the story after suffering in the SS4 watersplash that claimed Mitsubishi's Gianluiggi Galli and slowed Ford's Markko Martin.
Solberg suffered air intake damage after negotiating the hazard on the second run through the 28.98km Phaselis stage - many drivers have agreed that it was far deeper on the second run through, at a time when they were more confident and faster, and so attacked it with greater speed. The Norwegian lost around 30 seconds to his rivals, and now lies third, 49.7s behind leader Sebastien Loeb.
"It's hard to believe the damage that the water did," Solberg said. "It lifted the bonnet up and crushed the air intake duct. We weren't going so fast - it was a third-gear section - but, with the intake blocked, we lost power for the rest of the stage. We worked as much as we could to sort things out as best as possible and it was okay on the next stage. It's certainly not a disaster. There's still a long way to go."
Hirvonen was also caught out by the watersplash, but his time loss proved to be more substantial. He was also compounded by a spin at the final corner of the stage in which he received damage to the radiator when he hit a rock embedded in the grass bank bordering the stage.
"The engine almost stalled," he said. "Then I think I'd got water in a few places as the engine started misfiring and the clutch started slipping. After the stage and the spin, I managed to fix the radiator on the road section, but had to drive in the last stage without the anti-lag to try and prevent the engine overheating. I feel a little unlucky at the minute, but there's still a long way to go." [/quote]
Sound familiar??
Uh, HELLOOO- Prodrive? Maybe you oughtta consider that next time, before you enter the rally with more watersplashes than all others combined!?! Sorry, Lapworth, Richards, etc- you guys [B]totally[/B] dropped that ball! :furious:
Russ R
| tbert | 07-19-2004 05:28 PM |
[QUOTE=wrxited]Hey, I'm from Argentina....[/QUOTE]
:confused:
:confused:
| WRCar | 07-19-2004 09:07 PM |
[QUOTE=wrrrx]
Sound familiar??
Uh, HELLOOO- Prodrive? Maybe you oughtta consider that next time, before you enter the rally with more watersplashes than all others combined!?! Sorry, Lapworth, Richards, etc- you guys [B]totally[/B] dropped that ball! :furious:
Russ R[/QUOTE]
Maybe it was more of a time issue. Like they didn't have enough time to redesign the front air dam in the 2 weeks between rallies. I remember last week they were thinking it was the angle of entry that caused the submarining effect. This week they proved it wasn't.
Since Lapworth had absolutely no idea what went wrong I think it is more of an integral design flaw than a simple "oh they didn't think about changing part xxx". If you look at the video clips of the various makes going through the water most of the cars (Citroen, Mitsi, and even the Grp. N and privateer Subis) plow over the water, where as the WRC Subi sinks right in.... and thus the front air dam picks up the water and swamps the engine bay... that is what the spoiler is designed to do (well maybe not with water).
You would think that they woulda made Petter go slow through the _first_ water splash just incase.... damn hindsight...
I guess it's time to yump to the next rally and put Argentina behind us.
Sound familiar??
Uh, HELLOOO- Prodrive? Maybe you oughtta consider that next time, before you enter the rally with more watersplashes than all others combined!?! Sorry, Lapworth, Richards, etc- you guys [B]totally[/B] dropped that ball! :furious:
Russ R[/QUOTE]
Maybe it was more of a time issue. Like they didn't have enough time to redesign the front air dam in the 2 weeks between rallies. I remember last week they were thinking it was the angle of entry that caused the submarining effect. This week they proved it wasn't.
Since Lapworth had absolutely no idea what went wrong I think it is more of an integral design flaw than a simple "oh they didn't think about changing part xxx". If you look at the video clips of the various makes going through the water most of the cars (Citroen, Mitsi, and even the Grp. N and privateer Subis) plow over the water, where as the WRC Subi sinks right in.... and thus the front air dam picks up the water and swamps the engine bay... that is what the spoiler is designed to do (well maybe not with water).
You would think that they woulda made Petter go slow through the _first_ water splash just incase.... damn hindsight...
I guess it's time to yump to the next rally and put Argentina behind us.
| Ryouga | 07-19-2004 09:09 PM |
First of all, I was happy to see Carlos (Yay! King Carlos!) win another rally. It was too bad Luis Moya couldn't have been in the co-driver's seat but Marc Marti's a good guy, too.
As for the Subaru problems, is there anything preventing them from homologating something to fix it?
You know they're going to be taking watersplashes into account in their designs for the NEXT WRC car now. :lol:
As for the Subaru problems, is there anything preventing them from homologating something to fix it?
You know they're going to be taking watersplashes into account in their designs for the NEXT WRC car now. :lol:
| WRCar | 07-19-2004 11:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]
Go Petter...time to make THAT move...
Oh and sticky'd..
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Subie Gal]
[i]edited out swearing/cursing - dodging of nasioc.com swear filter- please re-read the rules - this type of behavior is not welcomed here.[/i][/QUOTE]
Sticky'd then modded.... oh well.
Scooby South you get my star of the rally award :)
Go Petter...time to make THAT move...
Oh and sticky'd..
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Subie Gal]
[i]edited out swearing/cursing - dodging of nasioc.com swear filter- please re-read the rules - this type of behavior is not welcomed here.[/i][/QUOTE]
Sticky'd then modded.... oh well.
Scooby South you get my star of the rally award :)
| Boom Stick | 07-20-2004 08:44 AM |
Team Subaru definetly dropped the ball on this. Not testing watersplashes before you go into THE premiere watersplash rally? I question their preperation, and as much as I like Lapworth he deserves to get chewed out b/c now Petter is 18 (or so) points behind Loeb for the Drivers championship :mad:
| wrrrx | 07-20-2004 09:20 AM |
[QUOTE=WRCar]Maybe it was more of a time issue. Like they didn't have enough time to redesign the front air dam in the 2 weeks between rallies. I remember last week they were thinking it was the angle of entry that caused the submarining effect. This week they proved it wasn't.
Since Lapworth had absolutely no idea what went wrong I think it is more of an integral design flaw than a simple "oh they didn't think about changing part xxx". If you look at the video clips of the various makes going through the water most of the cars (Citroen, Mitsi, and even the Grp. N and privateer Subis) plow over the water, where as the WRC Subi sinks right in.... and thus the front air dam picks up the water and swamps the engine bay... that is what the spoiler is designed to do (well maybe not with water).
You would think that they woulda made Petter go slow through the _first_ water splash just incase.... damn hindsight...
I guess it's time to yump to the next rally and put Argentina behind us.[/QUOTE]
(I love that word, "yump"!)
Yeah, you're probably right, WR- I know it wouldn't be as easy as "change out intake B for intake J" or anything... and there wasn't enough time for a supercool Peter Stevens front end redesign (AGAIN!?) but I'd think they coulda done [B]SOME[/B]thing!
Kinda reminds me of the whole lack of mesh screen for the intercooler deal here a few rounds back. I see lots of pics of older WR Scoobys w/ mesh screens- but it's like they didn't think about it... didn't prepare properly.
:furious:
I feel your pain Boom Stick- now because of that lack of prep, Petter is a lot further behind than I'd like. I know, I know- it's rallying and anything can and will happen... but still!
Russ R
Since Lapworth had absolutely no idea what went wrong I think it is more of an integral design flaw than a simple "oh they didn't think about changing part xxx". If you look at the video clips of the various makes going through the water most of the cars (Citroen, Mitsi, and even the Grp. N and privateer Subis) plow over the water, where as the WRC Subi sinks right in.... and thus the front air dam picks up the water and swamps the engine bay... that is what the spoiler is designed to do (well maybe not with water).
You would think that they woulda made Petter go slow through the _first_ water splash just incase.... damn hindsight...
I guess it's time to yump to the next rally and put Argentina behind us.[/QUOTE]
(I love that word, "yump"!)
Yeah, you're probably right, WR- I know it wouldn't be as easy as "change out intake B for intake J" or anything... and there wasn't enough time for a supercool Peter Stevens front end redesign (AGAIN!?) but I'd think they coulda done [B]SOME[/B]thing!
Kinda reminds me of the whole lack of mesh screen for the intercooler deal here a few rounds back. I see lots of pics of older WR Scoobys w/ mesh screens- but it's like they didn't think about it... didn't prepare properly.
:furious:
I feel your pain Boom Stick- now because of that lack of prep, Petter is a lot further behind than I'd like. I know, I know- it's rallying and anything can and will happen... but still!
Russ R
| sgilbert | 07-20-2004 10:21 AM |
Time to stop thinking about aerodynamics and think about hydrodynamics!
| Calamity Jesus | 07-20-2004 11:23 AM |
Remember, you saw it here first!
�
�
[img]http://home.earthlink.net/~andrea63/picture_page/bm_2002/images/bm_02_77.jpg[/img]
[I]Peter Stevens and crew put the final touches on the WRC Impreza redesign.[/I]
[I]Peter Stevens and crew put the final touches on the WRC Impreza redesign.[/I]
| bemani | 07-20-2004 01:48 PM |
What do you guys think of Petter's chances of catching Sebastian?
Realistically, I only see him placing higher than Seb on Japan, GB, and Australia.
What kind of Rally is the Italian one?
Realistically, I only see him placing higher than Seb on Japan, GB, and Australia.
What kind of Rally is the Italian one?
| WRCar | 07-20-2004 05:21 PM |
I still think there is a good chance for Petter to catch Seb in the points. The Subi is supposedly much better on tarmac this year (high speeds + revised aerodynamics). Subaru has shown that it has the speed to run with anyone in the championship, assuming that there are no watersplashes/rocks/penalties etc.... so the upcoming tarmac events look better than ever for Subaru.
While Seb is quite quick on tarmac, and so is the Citroen, he is due for some bad luck (jinx jinx jinx) and maybe Petter is due for some good (anybody know a good rain dance?).
Italy is tarmac, tight and twisty. IT does favor the small cars, but Petter was doing well last year before his car went tits-up. IIRC.
While Seb is quite quick on tarmac, and so is the Citroen, he is due for some bad luck (jinx jinx jinx) and maybe Petter is due for some good (anybody know a good rain dance?).
Italy is tarmac, tight and twisty. IT does favor the small cars, but Petter was doing well last year before his car went tits-up. IIRC.
| DriftnWRX | 07-20-2004 07:31 PM |
should have stuck with the bugeye's ;-)
| wrrrx | 07-21-2004 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE=WRCar]Italy is tarmac, tight and twisty. IT does favor the small cars, but Petter was doing well last year before his car went tits-up. IIRC.[/QUOTE]
NOT true!
Italy [B][i]used to be[/i][/B] tight and twisty tarmac! Rally San Remo is no more- this year it's Rally Italia Sardinia, and it's a [B]gravel[/B] rally.
I'm hoping for rain... and no water spalshes... :lol: :lol:
Russ R
NOT true!
Italy [B][i]used to be[/i][/B] tight and twisty tarmac! Rally San Remo is no more- this year it's Rally Italia Sardinia, and it's a [B]gravel[/B] rally.
I'm hoping for rain... and no water spalshes... :lol: :lol:
Russ R
| Jewbaru | 07-21-2004 06:01 PM |
Mikko made it to the end to place 4th. He had a few problems, but the water didn't destroy his car. Seemed the first splash caused problems because he forgot to deploy to water deflector. (whatever that is)
| bemani | 07-21-2004 07:54 PM |
[QUOTE=wrrrx]NOT true!
Italy [B][i]used to be[/i][/B] tight and twisty tarmac! Rally San Remo is no more- this year it's Rally Italia Sardinia, and it's a [B]gravel[/B] rally.
I'm hoping for rain... and no water spalshes... :lol: :lol:
Russ R[/QUOTE]
Cool, that cuts it down to 3 asphalt rallies left.
Actually, I would like to see a big watersplash somewhere down the line this year, just so we can see that the problem is fixed. Japan, maybe?
Subaru & Mitsubishi should RULE in the Hokkaido Rally. Well, maybe not Mitsubishi :devil:
Italy [B][i]used to be[/i][/B] tight and twisty tarmac! Rally San Remo is no more- this year it's Rally Italia Sardinia, and it's a [B]gravel[/B] rally.
I'm hoping for rain... and no water spalshes... :lol: :lol:
Russ R[/QUOTE]
Cool, that cuts it down to 3 asphalt rallies left.
Actually, I would like to see a big watersplash somewhere down the line this year, just so we can see that the problem is fixed. Japan, maybe?
Subaru & Mitsubishi should RULE in the Hokkaido Rally. Well, maybe not Mitsubishi :devil:
| WRCar | 07-21-2004 08:17 PM |
Japan will be getting close to winter by the time teh rally rolls around will it not? Could we maybe see a little snow action? That would be good cause the more slippy it is, the better the Pirellis are.....
| bemani | 07-22-2004 12:25 AM |
It'll be the beginning of September, I don't think it'll snow yet, even though its usually cold as hell. Rain, possibly.
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