| medamullet | 10-12-2006 12:13 PM |
06 wingless????
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I was wondering if anyone knows the effects of running with out a wing? @ what speeds do you start to notice a difference? That kind of stuff.
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 12:51 PM |
Spoilers are hot, do they work? Sure...but they only really start working when there is enough geforce...to obtain that your subie will have to be cooking at 230mph.:p
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 12:52 PM |
I heard that it's 80lb of doewn force at 100mph??? Or something like that.
| cathode | 10-12-2006 12:53 PM |
Mine doesn't have a wing. It still goes fast.
Honestly, what sort of downforce could the WRX stocker wing really generate? I think it is is more of a cosmetic piece.
Honestly, what sort of downforce could the WRX stocker wing really generate? I think it is is more of a cosmetic piece.
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 12:53 PM |
I can tell a diffference with my 06 sti and my 01 rs. But I think it has more to do with the suspension and tires.
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 12:57 PM |
I was wanting to go wingless.... Now I think I will keep it since everyone else is doing it. There are tons of STI trunks with wings for trader here. I think it looks cleaner. Badgeless with out a wing. Lowered with nice rims. In my case The extra back window wing may not look so good with out a trunk wing.
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 01:00 PM |
80 pounds at 100mph? Not possible...80 pounds is like 205 or somthing...Read all about it here.
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url]
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url]
| STiShawn | 10-12-2006 02:02 PM |
^ roflmao
to the OP, the wing is functional. Search the forums and you'll find lots of threads on this.
to the OP, the wing is functional. Search the forums and you'll find lots of threads on this.
| NYSTI | 10-12-2006 03:01 PM |
I'd say truely around 60 to 70 is when you feel the difference.
| cabe | 10-12-2006 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE=medamullet;15586215]I can tell a diffference with my 06 sti and my 01 rs. But I think it has more to do with the suspension and tires.[/QUOTE]
NO, you think?
NO, you think?
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 03:37 PM |
I am talking about the down force on the road at high speeds. Not the over all ride of the 2 cars.
| Menik | 10-12-2006 03:42 PM |
[QUOTE=NYSTI;15588167]I'd say truely around 60 to 70 is when you feel the difference.[/QUOTE]
How much of a difference? What kind of difference? Do you regret going wingless? I'm very seriously considering going to a rex wing but I'm still on the fence...
How much of a difference? What kind of difference? Do you regret going wingless? I'm very seriously considering going to a rex wing but I'm still on the fence...
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 03:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Menik;15588689]How much of a difference? What kind of difference? Do you regret going wingless? I'm very seriously considering going to a rex wing but I'm still on the fence...[/QUOTE]
This is my question exactilly. I love the way my car tracks at 120 (on the track) It handles very well. Setting the DCCD jsut a few flicks from the bottom. It handles good. I am afraid of going through the trouble of getting rid of my wing. Then I will regret it hugely.
This is my question exactilly. I love the way my car tracks at 120 (on the track) It handles very well. Setting the DCCD jsut a few flicks from the bottom. It handles good. I am afraid of going through the trouble of getting rid of my wing. Then I will regret it hugely.
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 04:01 PM |
[QUOTE=STiShawn;15587303]^ roflmao
to the OP, the wing is functional. Search the forums and you'll find lots of threads on this.[/QUOTE]
Sure the wing is functional...as I said before in my early post above...but what type of down force will you get at 60mph?
As someone said already it's a cosmetic part.
to the OP, the wing is functional. Search the forums and you'll find lots of threads on this.[/QUOTE]
Sure the wing is functional...as I said before in my early post above...but what type of down force will you get at 60mph?
As someone said already it's a cosmetic part.
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 04:03 PM |
so at 80 it's like haveing a kid in the trunk (so I have heard)
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 04:03 PM |
[QUOTE=medamullet;15588878]This is my question exactilly. I love the way my car tracks at 120 (on the track) It handles very well. Setting the DCCD jsut a few flicks from the bottom. It handles good. I am afraid of going through the trouble of getting rid of my wing. Then I will regret it hugely.[/QUOTE]
You do know taking the wing off will leave a few holes in your trunk. :p
You do know taking the wing off will leave a few holes in your trunk. :p
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 04:04 PM |
[QUOTE=bannerd;15589042]You do know taking the wing off will leave a few holes in your trunk. :p[/QUOTE]
yes, i would either trade it or get a carbon fiber trunk with no holes. (I have a carbon hood on my rs and I am not too happy with it)
yes, i would either trade it or get a carbon fiber trunk with no holes. (I have a carbon hood on my rs and I am not too happy with it)
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 04:09 PM |
You won't gain that much from a wing...drive down the road at 80mph and stick your had out the window...your luck to see 10-15lbs. Stick your hand out you window at 230 mph...lord knows what will happen.
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 04:14 PM |
For one, my car doesn't go 230. If it did I couldn't let go of the wheel long enough to roll down the window and stick my hand out :)
But my wing is quite a bit bigger than my hand.
But my wing is quite a bit bigger than my hand.
| STiShawn | 10-12-2006 04:16 PM |
bannered, you cant be serious
an actual wing has a proper airfoil that uses the pressure differential to create downforce like an airplane wing. Your hand on the hand just uses the angle of attack to create up or down motion, not true downforce or lift.
Your hand mostly feels drag not lift in the true sense.
an actual wing has a proper airfoil that uses the pressure differential to create downforce like an airplane wing. Your hand on the hand just uses the angle of attack to create up or down motion, not true downforce or lift.
Your hand mostly feels drag not lift in the true sense.
| NYSTI | 10-12-2006 04:18 PM |
[QUOTE=Menik;15588689]How much of a difference? What kind of difference? Do you regret going wingless? I'm very seriously considering going to a rex wing but I'm still on the fence...[/QUOTE]
No regrets.... Depends on the look you're going for. As for me its the SLEEPER look. The rear gets a little loose over 80. At times you feel it more @ higher speeds.(100+) But who & where can you drive at those speeds. My Tein Coilovers keep it tight......
No regrets.... Depends on the look you're going for. As for me its the SLEEPER look. The rear gets a little loose over 80. At times you feel it more @ higher speeds.(100+) But who & where can you drive at those speeds. My Tein Coilovers keep it tight......
| ned4spd04wrx | 10-12-2006 04:21 PM |
I remember reading in one the car mags a long time ago about the difference in a porsche at 100mph with the spoiler retracted and extended. They prob measured the drag coef... well diff was very small. Unless you race, dont worry about it.
If I had an STi I would take the wing off.
If I had an STi I would take the wing off.
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 04:21 PM |
[QUOTE=NYSTI;15589358]No regrets.... Depends on the look you're going for. As for me its the SLEEPER look. The rear gets a little loose over 80. At times you feel it more @ higher speeds.(100+) But who & where can you drive at those speeds. My Tein Coilovers keep it tight......[/QUOTE]
True. The clean look is goooooood. I think I will keep mine and worry abotu making it faster for now. Looks are for later. :)
True. The clean look is goooooood. I think I will keep mine and worry abotu making it faster for now. Looks are for later. :)
| medamullet | 10-12-2006 04:22 PM |
there is some good stuff in this one
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648828[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648828[/url]
| KrazyKarl | 10-12-2006 04:30 PM |
[QUOTE=bannerd;15586333]80 pounds at 100mph? Not possible...80 pounds is like 205 or somthing...Read all about it here.
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
I hope youre kidding. if youre not, then you need to take a highschool physics class before the next time you open your mouth.
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
I hope youre kidding. if youre not, then you need to take a highschool physics class before the next time you open your mouth.
| bannerd | 10-12-2006 05:40 PM |
[QUOTE=KrazyKarl;15589570]I hope youre kidding. if youre not, then you need to take a highschool physics class before the next time you open your mouth.[/QUOTE]
I'm not kidding, if you want downforce then you have to buy a wing that is going to do the job properly. Of course somthing bigger will increase the ass poundage but with a large wing your looking at enough d/f on the car than it actually wieghs pending if you're going fast. With a large wing the greater the d/f, yes the car will stick to the road alot better
The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.
This is all made possible by aero dynamics, do you need a wing...depends on the aero dynamics of the car. While the spoiler puts the rear down at high speeds what about the car itself? This is where the answer is.
At 167mph and because of the way the cars was made; because of it's aerodynamics the saleen s7 can be driven upside down.
[url]http://next.web-cars.com/wallpaper_img/saleen_s7_1280.jpg[/url]
I'm not kidding, if you want downforce then you have to buy a wing that is going to do the job properly. Of course somthing bigger will increase the ass poundage but with a large wing your looking at enough d/f on the car than it actually wieghs pending if you're going fast. With a large wing the greater the d/f, yes the car will stick to the road alot better
The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.
This is all made possible by aero dynamics, do you need a wing...depends on the aero dynamics of the car. While the spoiler puts the rear down at high speeds what about the car itself? This is where the answer is.
At 167mph and because of the way the cars was made; because of it's aerodynamics the saleen s7 can be driven upside down.
[url]http://next.web-cars.com/wallpaper_img/saleen_s7_1280.jpg[/url]
| NYSTI | 10-12-2006 07:07 PM |
[quote=bannerd;15590592]I'm not kidding, if you want downforce then you have to buy a wing that is going to do the job properly. Of course somthing bigger will increase the ass poundage but with a large wing your looking at enough d/f on the car than it actually wieghs pending if you're going fast. With a large wing the greater the d/f, yes the car will stick to the road alot better
[COLOR=red]The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
This is all made possible by aero dynamics, do you need a wing...depends on the aero dynamics of the car. While the spoiler puts the rear down at high speeds what about the car itself? This is where the answer is.
At 167mph and because of the way the cars was made; because of it's aerodynamics the saleen s7 can be driven upside down.
[URL]http://next.web-cars.com/wallpaper_img/saleen_s7_1280.jpg[/URL][/quote]
The Stock STI Spoiler; Does infact help! I've had one for over a year and after the fact of going wingless~ We'll just say their's a huge difference @ high speeds...And yes I'm a Local who jumps on 95 and opens her up...:lol:
So please keep in mind, I'm no Pro/and I know the STI OEM Spoiler isn't the Best, But it serves its purpose...
[COLOR=red]The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][/COLOR]
This is all made possible by aero dynamics, do you need a wing...depends on the aero dynamics of the car. While the spoiler puts the rear down at high speeds what about the car itself? This is where the answer is.
At 167mph and because of the way the cars was made; because of it's aerodynamics the saleen s7 can be driven upside down.
[URL]http://next.web-cars.com/wallpaper_img/saleen_s7_1280.jpg[/URL][/quote]
The Stock STI Spoiler; Does infact help! I've had one for over a year and after the fact of going wingless~ We'll just say their's a huge difference @ high speeds...And yes I'm a Local who jumps on 95 and opens her up...:lol:
So please keep in mind, I'm no Pro/and I know the STI OEM Spoiler isn't the Best, But it serves its purpose...
| Counterfit | 10-12-2006 07:26 PM |
[QUOTE=bannerd;15590592]At 167mph and because of the way the cars was made; because of it's aerodynamics the saleen s7 can be driven upside down.[/QUOTE]
Only in theory, because it still uses gravity for various systems (say, the fuel), so once it goes upside down, the engine stops. Same goes for F1 cars.
Only in theory, because it still uses gravity for various systems (say, the fuel), so once it goes upside down, the engine stops. Same goes for F1 cars.
| Dragicon | 10-12-2006 07:53 PM |
[QUOTE=bannerd;15590592]With a large wing the greater the d/f, yes the car will stick to the road alot better
The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.
[/QUOTE]
i would say a 80 lbs on the rear wheels is a pretty significant difference.
all it takes to fix the looseness is to take a wrench and tighten the bolts
people who track their cars do notice a difference
The stock STI spoiler isn't going to do the job, you go down the road at 130mph it's just going to get loose over time and the way it's made it isn't going to give you all that much d/f on the car at all.
[/QUOTE]
i would say a 80 lbs on the rear wheels is a pretty significant difference.
all it takes to fix the looseness is to take a wrench and tighten the bolts
people who track their cars do notice a difference
| 06BlackSTIwith550WHP | 10-12-2006 07:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Counterfit;15591773]Only in theory, because it still uses gravity for various systems (say, the fuel), so once it goes upside down, the engine stops. Same goes for F1 cars.[/QUOTE]
obviously only in theory they are just saying it makes the equivalent amount of downforce as the cars weight. How would it be driven upside down? In a really big circular tunnel then the amount of air under the car is different because of the shape of the ground or the roof?
obviously only in theory they are just saying it makes the equivalent amount of downforce as the cars weight. How would it be driven upside down? In a really big circular tunnel then the amount of air under the car is different because of the shape of the ground or the roof?
| kyleblix | 10-12-2006 08:17 PM |
The only difference i've noticed since going wingless is that at high speeds i don't see my wing wobbling in my rearview mirror
| nicmowrx | 10-12-2006 08:58 PM |
to all of you who think the wrx wing or even the sti wing is functional think again...if they provided any type of considerable or noticable downforce they would be in use on real racing circuits. whens the last time you saw a gt250/300 car with an sti or wrx spoiler...come on guys seriously. learn some physics then speak. wrx/sti=no usable downforce. COSMETIC. its put on there to differentiate between wrx and sti..
| page02wrx | 10-12-2006 09:02 PM |
Guys we took my friends STi wing off and even at speeds of 70mph noticed a huge difference - wings help TREMENDOUSLY
And whoever said the WRX wing does nothing is a RETARD!!!!! How do you think lips on corvettes help? Look at how little those are - look at how little daytona wings are, or starions. Before you start talking about how much you know about downforce and wings take yours off and go drive - ACTUALLY test it instead of running your lips about how wings are useless.
And whoever said the WRX wing does nothing is a RETARD!!!!! How do you think lips on corvettes help? Look at how little those are - look at how little daytona wings are, or starions. Before you start talking about how much you know about downforce and wings take yours off and go drive - ACTUALLY test it instead of running your lips about how wings are useless.
| waktasz | 10-12-2006 09:22 PM |
[QUOTE=bannerd;15586333]80 pounds at 100mph? Not possible...80 pounds is like 205 or somthing...Read all about it here.
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Please dear lord, stop posting. Downforce and G-force are a little different.
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/question633.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Please dear lord, stop posting. Downforce and G-force are a little different.
| scoobienoobienoo | 10-12-2006 10:03 PM |
The reason the wing adds 50 lbs of downforce is because the damn wing weighs 50 lbs.
:lol:
:lol:
| nicmowrx | 10-13-2006 12:07 AM |
i think the sti is more of a fin. fin being something that provides drag which also stablizes but it isnt downforce. i could definetly see the sti wing providing stablization through drag. its too close to the rear window and should probably be higher to intercept the flow of air coming off the roof...take note...wrc wing...set farther back and perhaps higher...and maybe design it after the wrc wing. i cant imagine a single flat blade providing much downforce the thing isnt even angled. come on guys.
| nicmowrx | 10-13-2006 12:10 AM |
double post
| STiShawn | 10-13-2006 12:33 PM |
nicmo and bannered
please go get a book called:
Race Car Aerodynamics by Robert Bentley Publishing
Sit down and read this.
The STI wing is a wing, not a spoiler (or as you called it a "fin"). Nascars run spoilers, STI's and EVO's (among others) run wings. They both serve the same purpose to provide downforce but go about it in different methods.
Before you all continue to yell at eachother out of ignorance and tell eachother to go back to highschool physics, read up a bit.
And Fwiw, the Saleen S7 has NOTHING to do with an STI or this topic.
please go get a book called:
Race Car Aerodynamics by Robert Bentley Publishing
Sit down and read this.
The STI wing is a wing, not a spoiler (or as you called it a "fin"). Nascars run spoilers, STI's and EVO's (among others) run wings. They both serve the same purpose to provide downforce but go about it in different methods.
Before you all continue to yell at eachother out of ignorance and tell eachother to go back to highschool physics, read up a bit.
And Fwiw, the Saleen S7 has NOTHING to do with an STI or this topic.
| KrazyKarl | 10-13-2006 12:53 PM |
[QUOTE=waktasz;15593020]Please dear lord, stop posting. Downforce and G-force are a little different.[/QUOTE]
hehe a little different? youre being too kind.
hehe a little different? youre being too kind.
| ScoobyRacing03 | 10-13-2006 01:32 PM |
[QUOTE=nicmowrx;15592704]to all of you who think the wrx wing or even the sti wing is functional think again...if they provided any type of considerable or noticable downforce they would be in use on real racing circuits. whens the last time you saw a gt250/300 car with an sti or wrx spoiler...come on guys seriously. learn some physics then speak. wrx/sti=no usable downforce. COSMETIC. its put on there to differentiate between wrx and sti..[/QUOTE]
well go back and learn some more about physics yourself. each wing needs to be a different shape for each car cause there's this pesky thing that happens which is the air flowing over a car goes differently with a different shaped car. just as you can't take xxx car and cut a hole in the hood and put a scoop on it with an intercooler under it and expect it to be functional. you put that scoop in the wrong spot and you create a vacuum. put the wrong wing on the wrong car and instead of down force you create lift.
but that's all simple physics so you already knew that before you made an ass of yourself didn't you :o
well go back and learn some more about physics yourself. each wing needs to be a different shape for each car cause there's this pesky thing that happens which is the air flowing over a car goes differently with a different shaped car. just as you can't take xxx car and cut a hole in the hood and put a scoop on it with an intercooler under it and expect it to be functional. you put that scoop in the wrong spot and you create a vacuum. put the wrong wing on the wrong car and instead of down force you create lift.
but that's all simple physics so you already knew that before you made an ass of yourself didn't you :o
| ScoobyRacing03 | 10-13-2006 01:35 PM |
Audi TT tiny little lip spoiler. Originally was without it. Audi added it for one reason the car was having lift problems at high speeds. a couple of inch spoiler no more lift and they had down force. so for someone to think that a wing as big as the WRX or STI wing has no downforce effects they are mistaken.
| ArizonaWRX | 10-13-2006 01:49 PM |
[quote=page02wrx;15592756]Guys we took my friends STi wing off and even at speeds of 70mph noticed a huge difference - wings help TREMENDOUSLY
And whoever said the WRX wing does nothing is a RETARD!!!!! How do you think lips on corvettes help? Look at how little those are - look at how little daytona wings are, or starions. Before you start talking about how much you know about downforce and wings take yours off and go drive - ACTUALLY test it instead of running your lips about how wings are useless.[/quote]
Cosmetic, yes they help to stand out and point out that the car is a WRX and not something else, or an STI and not something else. The spoilers are destinctive. But I believe they are functional as well. Even at the very least having the spoiler can't hurt in terms of downforce. People can do whatever they want with THEIR cars, go badgeless, wingless, whatever. But for both cosmetic and practical purposes, I got my 06 WRX limited with the spoiler, and for my money, I love it. While the STI wing screams STI and Subaru performance, it has come to symbolize those aspects as well, as the the rally teams and STIs have it. All due respect to the awesome STI, but overall, I think the WRX and G35 have the best looking simple spoilers, straight across, no crazy curves or bends, with the led brake light up that looks clean. Oh, and the WRX spoiler doesn't way 50 lbs or anything like that. It probably ways less than 5 lbs. if that.
And whoever said the WRX wing does nothing is a RETARD!!!!! How do you think lips on corvettes help? Look at how little those are - look at how little daytona wings are, or starions. Before you start talking about how much you know about downforce and wings take yours off and go drive - ACTUALLY test it instead of running your lips about how wings are useless.[/quote]
Cosmetic, yes they help to stand out and point out that the car is a WRX and not something else, or an STI and not something else. The spoilers are destinctive. But I believe they are functional as well. Even at the very least having the spoiler can't hurt in terms of downforce. People can do whatever they want with THEIR cars, go badgeless, wingless, whatever. But for both cosmetic and practical purposes, I got my 06 WRX limited with the spoiler, and for my money, I love it. While the STI wing screams STI and Subaru performance, it has come to symbolize those aspects as well, as the the rally teams and STIs have it. All due respect to the awesome STI, but overall, I think the WRX and G35 have the best looking simple spoilers, straight across, no crazy curves or bends, with the led brake light up that looks clean. Oh, and the WRX spoiler doesn't way 50 lbs or anything like that. It probably ways less than 5 lbs. if that.
| JSP | 10-13-2006 03:25 PM |
I cut the following out of a 9/5/05 AutoWeek article on the '06 WRX and STi (autoweek.com, search WRX STI)
"The STI looks more like Subaru�s entry in the World Rally Championship. It uses a large dual-plane rear spoiler�Subaru says it�s for track speeds�to help decrease lift. An aerodynamic underbody cover and a roof vane spoiler work to improve high-speed stability. STI�s front-side spoilers help control airflow too."
To me (yes this is opinion not hard data) the fact that the SOA marketing people used the phrasing "to help reduce lift" and did not give AW hard down force numbers would indicate that little actual down force is being generated even at "track speeds." That�s not saying it does not have some benefit, reducing body lift is a good thing and must mean there is some down force being generated. That said '06 STI wing = 90% show (maybe) 10% go.
This is the longest I've seem the mod's keep a "does the wing work" thread open in a while.
"The STI looks more like Subaru�s entry in the World Rally Championship. It uses a large dual-plane rear spoiler�Subaru says it�s for track speeds�to help decrease lift. An aerodynamic underbody cover and a roof vane spoiler work to improve high-speed stability. STI�s front-side spoilers help control airflow too."
To me (yes this is opinion not hard data) the fact that the SOA marketing people used the phrasing "to help reduce lift" and did not give AW hard down force numbers would indicate that little actual down force is being generated even at "track speeds." That�s not saying it does not have some benefit, reducing body lift is a good thing and must mean there is some down force being generated. That said '06 STI wing = 90% show (maybe) 10% go.
This is the longest I've seem the mod's keep a "does the wing work" thread open in a while.
| medamullet | 10-16-2006 11:46 PM |
I asked a few stress engineers at work they all think we need more data to make any type of dermination. what is the angle, weight air flow, bla, bla, bla. It probably helps mainly because it is like having a 80lb bag of salt in the trunk but it looks better than a 80lb bag of salt.
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