| gleinz | 03-29-2006 10:16 PM |
Best car for AutoX and RallyX?
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Hey all,
I'm looking to get into both of these events this year... I'm considering buy a new car so I can run both AutoX and RallyX events. Obviously since I want to run both an AWD car is preferrable, so here's what I was thinking:
- Impreza (2.5RS, WRX, STi)
- Lancer Evo
- 1g/2g AWD DSM
Some other cars to consider may be:
- Civic
- Miata
- 240SX
- Integra
- VW Golf
What's everyones thoughts on this?
I'm looking to get into both of these events this year... I'm considering buy a new car so I can run both AutoX and RallyX events. Obviously since I want to run both an AWD car is preferrable, so here's what I was thinking:
- Impreza (2.5RS, WRX, STi)
- Lancer Evo
- 1g/2g AWD DSM
Some other cars to consider may be:
- Civic
- Miata
- 240SX
- Integra
- VW Golf
What's everyones thoughts on this?
| GreenMarine | 03-29-2006 10:24 PM |
For AutoX, I'd have to say that ya should get a Miata... They are a BLAST!!!! I couldn't live with it though... I am 6'1" tall... Not too tall, just too big to ride in one every single day... But it is a perfect AutoXer :D:D Personally, I wouldn't run a Miata in RallyX though... :rolleyes: Go with a 2.5RS for that :):)
| Rally_wgn | 03-29-2006 10:31 PM |
Do you mean a "new" used car? Out of the options you listed a like the 2.5RS 99-01.
Easy to maintain engine with good low end torque and close gear ratios. Perfect for both "slow" event types. RS's often compete well with WRX's in there respective classes as there is no need to keep a turbo spooled for power. They are also lighter weight than the newer body styles plus they look better IMHO.
You could go to a regular impreza coupe or wagon (my preference ;) ) and it would be alot cheaper than an RS but the power and gearing are not as good. But your talking $8000 - $10000 for a usually hard to find RS versus $3000 for an easier to get impreza coupe sedan or wagon. Plus with the wagon its easy to carry all of your crap including wheels and tires.
On the 2WD side you might also consider an older neon. cheap to buy light as heck and decent power. One of the fastest rally-x in out region runs a well prepped neon and they dominated there class in auto-x for some time as i recall.
Are you planning on keeping your '04 Rex as a DD? A lot of ppl try the double duty thing and I think it works well enuf for auto-x and rally-x its track days when you risk really busting up your Daily Driver.
Keep in mind its not unlikely that you may damage your car in either event type so keep that in mind. Break car on sunday, you better hope to fix it by Monday.
Easy to maintain engine with good low end torque and close gear ratios. Perfect for both "slow" event types. RS's often compete well with WRX's in there respective classes as there is no need to keep a turbo spooled for power. They are also lighter weight than the newer body styles plus they look better IMHO.
You could go to a regular impreza coupe or wagon (my preference ;) ) and it would be alot cheaper than an RS but the power and gearing are not as good. But your talking $8000 - $10000 for a usually hard to find RS versus $3000 for an easier to get impreza coupe sedan or wagon. Plus with the wagon its easy to carry all of your crap including wheels and tires.
On the 2WD side you might also consider an older neon. cheap to buy light as heck and decent power. One of the fastest rally-x in out region runs a well prepped neon and they dominated there class in auto-x for some time as i recall.
Are you planning on keeping your '04 Rex as a DD? A lot of ppl try the double duty thing and I think it works well enuf for auto-x and rally-x its track days when you risk really busting up your Daily Driver.
Keep in mind its not unlikely that you may damage your car in either event type so keep that in mind. Break car on sunday, you better hope to fix it by Monday.
| gleinz | 03-29-2006 10:34 PM |
I think I'd rather buy another car for the AutoX/RallyX thing... not sure if I want to beat on my rex that much.
As far as pricing... give me what you think is reasonable, then what kind of new cars you'd like to have just for AutoX/RallyX.
Thanks for the quick replies!
- Matt
As far as pricing... give me what you think is reasonable, then what kind of new cars you'd like to have just for AutoX/RallyX.
Thanks for the quick replies!
- Matt
| leecea | 03-29-2006 10:38 PM |
If you have the means to get an Evo or STi, why are you even looking at the others?
| gleinz | 03-29-2006 10:40 PM |
Never said I had the means, I'm just looking for some feedback. :)
Also, Evo/STi may not be best suited for what I want (altough they most certainly are at the top of the list).
Also, Evo/STi may not be best suited for what I want (altough they most certainly are at the top of the list).
| Rally_wgn | 03-29-2006 10:49 PM |
I wouldn't do a new car at all. For starters you are asking for your warranty to be voided. Second "racing" a car that you owe that much money is just silly. I think you are headed in the right direction. Keep the '04 for a daily driver and you can mod up and beat on the fun car all you want.
As far as price is concerned fo as cheap as you can find. But first i would think you would want to decide what class you want to compete in. and are you just doing it for fun or do you want to be really competitive?
I bought my car for $1000 and drive it daily. I bought it with the intention of turning it in to a fun car. but i enjoy driving so much that i prefer it over our newer car. because i have no payment and its a little beat up i can mod it with spare cash and drive it like i stole it ;) If I had shelled out $20k or $30k I would have some issue doing anything risky with it. I hope this illustrates my line of thinking better.
If you pay $1000 - $3000 for the car its easy to find money for better wheels, R compound and Rally tires. beefed up suspension and so forth. You might go on to Grassroots Motorsports website one of the writers named Per is running a beater L they he bought in a full blown rally. He also has a thread on there about his experience so far. Keep it cheap I think you will have more fun.
As far as price is concerned fo as cheap as you can find. But first i would think you would want to decide what class you want to compete in. and are you just doing it for fun or do you want to be really competitive?
I bought my car for $1000 and drive it daily. I bought it with the intention of turning it in to a fun car. but i enjoy driving so much that i prefer it over our newer car. because i have no payment and its a little beat up i can mod it with spare cash and drive it like i stole it ;) If I had shelled out $20k or $30k I would have some issue doing anything risky with it. I hope this illustrates my line of thinking better.
If you pay $1000 - $3000 for the car its easy to find money for better wheels, R compound and Rally tires. beefed up suspension and so forth. You might go on to Grassroots Motorsports website one of the writers named Per is running a beater L they he bought in a full blown rally. He also has a thread on there about his experience so far. Keep it cheap I think you will have more fun.
| gleinz | 03-30-2006 06:18 AM |
So sounds like the smart option would be to buy a cheaper car and save the rest of the money doing some mods to get the car running how I want and for what class...
Now I ask you this: What cars are consistently known to be winning AutoX and RallyX events? I may start off just as a casual racer, but I also may end up liking it so much that I want to get more serious about it.
- Matt
Now I ask you this: What cars are consistently known to be winning AutoX and RallyX events? I may start off just as a casual racer, but I also may end up liking it so much that I want to get more serious about it.
- Matt
| Scooby Freak | 03-30-2006 07:15 AM |
[QUOTE=gleinz]So sounds like the smart option would be to buy a cheaper car and save the rest of the money doing some mods to get the car running how I want and for what class...
Now I ask you this: What cars are consistently known to be winning AutoX and RallyX events? I may start off just as a casual racer, but I also may end up liking it so much that I want to get more serious about it.
- Matt[/QUOTE]I wouldn't say that certain cars are consistently winning, but certain drivers are consistently winning. Driver skill will take you much further than choosing the right car. If you are just starting out, don't worry too much about modifying the car, just keep it well maintained and get lots of seat time.
-jeff
Now I ask you this: What cars are consistently known to be winning AutoX and RallyX events? I may start off just as a casual racer, but I also may end up liking it so much that I want to get more serious about it.
- Matt[/QUOTE]I wouldn't say that certain cars are consistently winning, but certain drivers are consistently winning. Driver skill will take you much further than choosing the right car. If you are just starting out, don't worry too much about modifying the car, just keep it well maintained and get lots of seat time.
-jeff
| Rally_wgn | 03-30-2006 08:09 AM |
While I agree with Jeff's "its the nut behind the wheel that makes the difference" advise, I also understand the nature of your question. As you imporve you dont want to feel that you are being held back by your equipment. Based on that assumption i come to the same conclusion I did before.
Find yourself a decent 99-01 RS25. It uses a very similar AWD system to your WRX so the lessons you learn racing can be applied directly to your everyday car. Its a Subaru which is important IMHO. And it is competitive in both the auto-x class you will likely compete in and in Rally-x.
You may want to go to the SCCA website and look up your region and see what does well there in any particular class. I would also advise looking at other regions and check out what the national level guys are using for more ideas. I think you'll find the RS 2.5 will work quite well for what you are looking to do.
As a side note if you decide that this racing thing doesnt suit you GC8 bodied RS 2.5's also hold there resale value very well.
Find yourself a decent 99-01 RS25. It uses a very similar AWD system to your WRX so the lessons you learn racing can be applied directly to your everyday car. Its a Subaru which is important IMHO. And it is competitive in both the auto-x class you will likely compete in and in Rally-x.
You may want to go to the SCCA website and look up your region and see what does well there in any particular class. I would also advise looking at other regions and check out what the national level guys are using for more ideas. I think you'll find the RS 2.5 will work quite well for what you are looking to do.
As a side note if you decide that this racing thing doesnt suit you GC8 bodied RS 2.5's also hold there resale value very well.
| GRMPer | 03-30-2006 08:18 AM |
After our Impreza project is done, I'm planning on building an A2 Golf as an FSP/RallyCross/Track Dog...aside from the Subies, they're what's doing well here in RallyCross.
Per
Per
| limeylight | 03-30-2006 08:23 AM |
I agree with Rally_wgn. You definately should get a wagon but not a poxie Impreza. No, You need a Legacy Outback!
I Jest not:
[URL=http://www.creativeexteriorlighting.com/team/Racing/racing.htm]Team Illuminata Motorsport[/URL]
Paul the Limey
I Jest not:
[URL=http://www.creativeexteriorlighting.com/team/Racing/racing.htm]Team Illuminata Motorsport[/URL]
Paul the Limey
| cowapult | 03-30-2006 10:11 AM |
It doesn't really matter. Most people would do better to try to have more fun in your hobby than that the other guy on the grid, not be faster than him. What I think is a car that is cheap, fun, reliable, and durable. Fast or competitive isn't on the list. Car choice doesn't matter hardly at all in rallycross. It matters a ton in autocross, but classes negates most of that.
In my experience, all those AWD drive cars are basically equal at rallycross. So, why not go for the cheapest - old 2.5RS (and the easiest to drive, BTW).
In 2WD, old Sentra SE-Rs (early 90's gen) really clean up at rallycross in my region - even beating the Subarus on dry days. But the ones you list would be fine too.
As for autocross - meh. Find a car that's fun to drive. Are you going to throw 10's of thousdands of dollars into rediculous mods like remote resevoir shocks so you can be competive? Nope, so get a car with 4 tires and a steering wheel have fun, and have more fun than the guy with all that nonsense :D
Like I said, the key is cheap, fun, reliable, and durable.
In my experience, all those AWD drive cars are basically equal at rallycross. So, why not go for the cheapest - old 2.5RS (and the easiest to drive, BTW).
In 2WD, old Sentra SE-Rs (early 90's gen) really clean up at rallycross in my region - even beating the Subarus on dry days. But the ones you list would be fine too.
As for autocross - meh. Find a car that's fun to drive. Are you going to throw 10's of thousdands of dollars into rediculous mods like remote resevoir shocks so you can be competive? Nope, so get a car with 4 tires and a steering wheel have fun, and have more fun than the guy with all that nonsense :D
Like I said, the key is cheap, fun, reliable, and durable.
| 10th Warrior | 03-30-2006 10:27 AM |
well, nothing will be faster around both courses then the STi. That said, you pay for that kind of performance ;) a 1g DSM is cheap to buy and cheap to fix. You'll want EM to get that turbo spooling quicker, though. plus i hate those seatbelts. other than that, its a very good beater race car.
| KC | 03-30-2006 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE=cowapult]Are you going to throw 10's of thousdands of dollars into rediculous mods like remote resevoir shocks so you can be competive? [/QUOTE]
That's a bad sterotype I wish people would lose regarding auto-x. I paid $600 for shocks and came in 4th at Nationals. You don't need rediculous amounts of $$ to have fun locally, or even nationally. Tires are expensive in both to boot (and you can find people that buy/sell used one for cheap too). Other than tires, I have just over $2K in my RX8 and $1500 of that is just the wheels. I know many people that have more than that in their rally-x cars... ;) (I equate that to those that bring their caged and prepped rally cars to a rally-x... you going to complain about what they spent on their cars?)
Rally-x is still new on a national level... wait until people start throwing money towards them when national titles are on the line. What are you gonna say then? ;)
Money can't buy fun... but is sure don't hurt to spend it! :D
You have two different sports that, IMHO, require two different pieces of equipment. Other than the STi, and knowing the region where the OP will be running in, he's going to be hard pressed to find a car that can excel at both at the same time with the same level of equipment.
As far as what car... I agree, the 2.5RS would be hard to beat. But tires are going to be an issue here in New England with the surfaces Rally-X are run on. I can't think of a surface that doesn't deteriorate and stays hard pack the whole event. Skid plates at a minimum are reccommendeded. However, they're also not legal in stock class nor in Street Touring (locally, I don't care to tell you the truth, but some people do). Street tires might be OK for auto-x, but not really for rally-x up here. (KC remembers running on RE92s at both auto-x and rally-x and *shudders*)
Will he have fun? Who doesn't? :) But if the OP starts becoming competitive in either event a year from now and wants to step it up a notch, he'll soon realize that there's no one car that can do both and podium (again... other than an STi).
--kC
That's a bad sterotype I wish people would lose regarding auto-x. I paid $600 for shocks and came in 4th at Nationals. You don't need rediculous amounts of $$ to have fun locally, or even nationally. Tires are expensive in both to boot (and you can find people that buy/sell used one for cheap too). Other than tires, I have just over $2K in my RX8 and $1500 of that is just the wheels. I know many people that have more than that in their rally-x cars... ;) (I equate that to those that bring their caged and prepped rally cars to a rally-x... you going to complain about what they spent on their cars?)
Rally-x is still new on a national level... wait until people start throwing money towards them when national titles are on the line. What are you gonna say then? ;)
Money can't buy fun... but is sure don't hurt to spend it! :D
You have two different sports that, IMHO, require two different pieces of equipment. Other than the STi, and knowing the region where the OP will be running in, he's going to be hard pressed to find a car that can excel at both at the same time with the same level of equipment.
As far as what car... I agree, the 2.5RS would be hard to beat. But tires are going to be an issue here in New England with the surfaces Rally-X are run on. I can't think of a surface that doesn't deteriorate and stays hard pack the whole event. Skid plates at a minimum are reccommendeded. However, they're also not legal in stock class nor in Street Touring (locally, I don't care to tell you the truth, but some people do). Street tires might be OK for auto-x, but not really for rally-x up here. (KC remembers running on RE92s at both auto-x and rally-x and *shudders*)
Will he have fun? Who doesn't? :) But if the OP starts becoming competitive in either event a year from now and wants to step it up a notch, he'll soon realize that there's no one car that can do both and podium (again... other than an STi).
--kC
| RB5 Clone | 03-30-2006 10:55 AM |
racing conumdrum
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find a 00-01 RS. it's got the rear LSD--a big advantage in the dirt. the 4.11 gearing is MUCH better than a typical 3.9 geared L or OB Sport, there's simply no comparison.
beyond simply choosing a car, you should realize that running the same car in both autoX and rallyX presents considerable setup problems. basically, the needs of the two events are essentially opposite.
autoX--stiff shocks, high spring rates, lowered car and VERY high roll stiffness for max grip on hard even surfaces
rallyX --softer shocks, softer spring rates, stock ride height, much softer roll stiffness for better grip on soft uneven surfaces
not that it can't be done, just plan for it. which means JAM in racer speak -- Just Apply Money
what's most likely to happen is that you start by trying both disciplnes with an essentially stock car, then gravitate to one or the other as you work up the learning curve and find which you prefer (and which you're better at). THEN you can start modding the car to suit the job at hand
I started by trying both, liked the gravel, and haven't looked back.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
beyond simply choosing a car, you should realize that running the same car in both autoX and rallyX presents considerable setup problems. basically, the needs of the two events are essentially opposite.
autoX--stiff shocks, high spring rates, lowered car and VERY high roll stiffness for max grip on hard even surfaces
rallyX --softer shocks, softer spring rates, stock ride height, much softer roll stiffness for better grip on soft uneven surfaces
not that it can't be done, just plan for it. which means JAM in racer speak -- Just Apply Money
what's most likely to happen is that you start by trying both disciplnes with an essentially stock car, then gravitate to one or the other as you work up the learning curve and find which you prefer (and which you're better at). THEN you can start modding the car to suit the job at hand
I started by trying both, liked the gravel, and haven't looked back.
Dave G
[url]www.lastditchracing.net[/url]
| KC | 03-30-2006 11:22 AM |
Location of where you live also plays a decent part in what you might be able to do/afford.
I love rally-x. I'd love to do it more. The issue is, most of them are at least 3-4 hrs away. Kind of tough to justify getting up at 4am for a day trip and returning around 10-11. :) Auto-x is closer.
However, auto-x in New England might be going the way of the Dodo if the new track doesn't get built before Devens is returned to the towns it occupies and other sports will beckon.
--KC
I love rally-x. I'd love to do it more. The issue is, most of them are at least 3-4 hrs away. Kind of tough to justify getting up at 4am for a day trip and returning around 10-11. :) Auto-x is closer.
However, auto-x in New England might be going the way of the Dodo if the new track doesn't get built before Devens is returned to the towns it occupies and other sports will beckon.
--KC
| cowapult | 03-30-2006 11:27 AM |
[QUOTE=KC]...[/QUOTE]
I'm not bashing autocross. My point is similar to yours. Autocross is more competitive, people throw more money at it, there are many more developed drivers. Therefore, he's probably not going to be competitive so he shouldn't sweat that too much.
Don't you think the RS could be competitive at both? In rallycross, many people believe its faster than an STI on the right course. In autocross, RS's have done well in STS, haven't they?
I will disagree with some other posters on the money. I think the secret here is to spend less money. The more money you throw at it, the more outclassed it will be at the sport you are prepping it for, and the less capable it is at doing the other sport. Don't bother "developing" it for either purpose, since I think an Impreza of any trim level with no more than basic mods does great for both purposes!
I'm not bashing autocross. My point is similar to yours. Autocross is more competitive, people throw more money at it, there are many more developed drivers. Therefore, he's probably not going to be competitive so he shouldn't sweat that too much.
Don't you think the RS could be competitive at both? In rallycross, many people believe its faster than an STI on the right course. In autocross, RS's have done well in STS, haven't they?
I will disagree with some other posters on the money. I think the secret here is to spend less money. The more money you throw at it, the more outclassed it will be at the sport you are prepping it for, and the less capable it is at doing the other sport. Don't bother "developing" it for either purpose, since I think an Impreza of any trim level with no more than basic mods does great for both purposes!
| 10th Warrior | 03-30-2006 12:13 PM |
[quote]Don't you think the RS could be competitive at both? In rallycross, many people believe its faster than an STI on the right course. In autocross, RS's have done well in STS, haven't they?[/quote]
No. A competitve STS RS won't be cabable of rally-x. A GS RS won't be competitive. Like KC said, the STi is the only car that will come close to being competitive at both at the same time.
No. A competitve STS RS won't be cabable of rally-x. A GS RS won't be competitive. Like KC said, the STi is the only car that will come close to being competitive at both at the same time.
| gleinz | 03-30-2006 12:23 PM |
Great discussion guys... this is really giving me some good feedback on what I want / should do.
As far as AutoX / RallyX setups, I realize that to maximize your performance, the setup will be on opposite ends of the spectrum. But starting off casually like I am now, there should be a happy medium that I can achieve to run both events without switching setups everytime, right? What about even getting a coilover setup with some mild springs (not too stiff, but not too soft either) and adjusting ride height as necessary? Obviously I'll be a little softer on AutoX courses and stiffer on RallyX courses. If it comes to it, I'll have 2 complete suspension setups that I can swap out in a day depending on what event I'm going to. This actually isn't too bad since, as KC pointed out, RallyX events are few and far between and they're quite a drive to get to them from where I am right now.
I guess to the point of getting a car that's good for both, Dave made a great point. I'm just looking to have some fun right now (and I know I will even if I was driving a Dodge Omni!), but down the line I may gravitate towards one event or another. I also want to bring some of friends along and get them started in racing, so I still want to be able to run both types with a single car and still have a blast. Perhaps in a year or so I'll choose which one I like better, and go that route, but for now (as many people have mentioned), I want to get as much seat time as possible!
Now as far as the STi being great for both AutoX and RallyX, what about the Lancer Evo? It should be comparable, right? And, let's say a brand new STi and Evo show up at an event, do you ever think to yourself, "I wish I was driving that today!"?
- Matt
As far as AutoX / RallyX setups, I realize that to maximize your performance, the setup will be on opposite ends of the spectrum. But starting off casually like I am now, there should be a happy medium that I can achieve to run both events without switching setups everytime, right? What about even getting a coilover setup with some mild springs (not too stiff, but not too soft either) and adjusting ride height as necessary? Obviously I'll be a little softer on AutoX courses and stiffer on RallyX courses. If it comes to it, I'll have 2 complete suspension setups that I can swap out in a day depending on what event I'm going to. This actually isn't too bad since, as KC pointed out, RallyX events are few and far between and they're quite a drive to get to them from where I am right now.
I guess to the point of getting a car that's good for both, Dave made a great point. I'm just looking to have some fun right now (and I know I will even if I was driving a Dodge Omni!), but down the line I may gravitate towards one event or another. I also want to bring some of friends along and get them started in racing, so I still want to be able to run both types with a single car and still have a blast. Perhaps in a year or so I'll choose which one I like better, and go that route, but for now (as many people have mentioned), I want to get as much seat time as possible!
Now as far as the STi being great for both AutoX and RallyX, what about the Lancer Evo? It should be comparable, right? And, let's say a brand new STi and Evo show up at an event, do you ever think to yourself, "I wish I was driving that today!"?
- Matt
| KC | 03-30-2006 12:35 PM |
I don't care what I drive. It's all good fun. If anything, there are people that would say 'gee, if I had $30k to spend, I'd buy a golf and prep it to the hilt!'. Everyone personal circumstances are different. I don't care what others drive... I just look to be a better driver. (Not to say there haven't been times at an auto-x where I've craved to pilot a Ferrari or a Factory Five cobra or an NSX that have showed up. :devil: )
The rally-x bunch is definitely quite more relaxed than the auto-xers. But then again, you have 1/2 the people at rally-x events, so things can afford be a bit more relaxed and get things done on time (and get more runs in). And you have much less rules, etc... I consider rally-x much more grass roots than auto-x, that's for sure.
Both have their ups and downs (rally-x has less downs other than distance for me, but that's a personal problem of where I live). Fun... is what you make of it. :D
--kC
The rally-x bunch is definitely quite more relaxed than the auto-xers. But then again, you have 1/2 the people at rally-x events, so things can afford be a bit more relaxed and get things done on time (and get more runs in). And you have much less rules, etc... I consider rally-x much more grass roots than auto-x, that's for sure.
Both have their ups and downs (rally-x has less downs other than distance for me, but that's a personal problem of where I live). Fun... is what you make of it. :D
--kC
| 10th Warrior | 03-30-2006 01:20 PM |
[quote]Now as far as the STi being great for both AutoX and RallyX, what about the Lancer Evo? It should be comparable, right?[/quote]
i've auto-x'ed and rally-x'ed both and I prefer the STi. Better low-end torque. The diffs help too, though I haven't driven a newer Evo that had a front LSD.
i've auto-x'ed and rally-x'ed both and I prefer the STi. Better low-end torque. The diffs help too, though I haven't driven a newer Evo that had a front LSD.
| cowapult | 03-30-2006 01:27 PM |
[QUOTE=gleinz]But starting off casually like I am now, there should be a happy medium that I can achieve to run both events without switching setups everytime, right? [/QUOTE]
I'd say so. The happy medium I am recommending is to do nothing to your car for the first couple years.
I'd say so. The happy medium I am recommending is to do nothing to your car for the first couple years.
| Rally_wgn | 03-30-2006 02:12 PM |
Other than switching tires you wouldn't need to do anything else to have fun in both venues. though skidplates may be appropriate for your area.
So buy a RS2.5, buy a spare set of wheels, a skip plate and rear diff protector, a helmet, join the SCCA, some decent auto-x tires (used ones are easy to find), some decent rally-x tires (used again), change you oil, diff fluid, tranny fluid and brake fluid and have fun. the wheels should be cheap too, put the auto-x tires on the rims your RS came with (your not daily driving yet apparently) and buy some cheap steelies for the rally-x tires. At this point all you need to spend is entry fee money.
Just do it!
So buy a RS2.5, buy a spare set of wheels, a skip plate and rear diff protector, a helmet, join the SCCA, some decent auto-x tires (used ones are easy to find), some decent rally-x tires (used again), change you oil, diff fluid, tranny fluid and brake fluid and have fun. the wheels should be cheap too, put the auto-x tires on the rims your RS came with (your not daily driving yet apparently) and buy some cheap steelies for the rally-x tires. At this point all you need to spend is entry fee money.
Just do it!
| Fred | 03-30-2006 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE]well, nothing will be faster around both courses then the STi. [/QUOTE]
:eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And I'm not trying to pick on you, but... :)
[QUOTE]No. A competitve STS RS won't be cabable of rally-x. A GS RS won't be competitive. [/QUOTE]
Define "competitive" - if you're out to win a national championship in autox, you're not going to be running an STS RS, anyway (unless you're hoping for rain or for the guys driving Civics to screw up). :) I've won plenty of (local) autoxes (ftpax, too) driving an STS RS with suspension equivalent to stock STi - and I also won a few rallyxes with that same RS, setup just as it had been at the autoxes. On the flip side of that, I've seen a local guy named Philip ftpax at a few autoxes in a GS RS against several national champions. And the way the car was set up for GS would've been good enough to run FTD at any of our rallyxes (with a tire change, of course :lol: ) Is that "competitive" enough for you? :)
For easy-to-drive, ready-and-willing-to-win cars that could also be competitive in STS at most local autoxes, choose 2.5RS for AWD class or Sentra SE-R for 2WD class. To have fun and have a great shot at winning if you're talented enough, omit the Miata and the rest of the cars will be fine, too.
You just have to watch how you set the cars up - stiff dampers and medium-stiff springs will be good for autox and rallyx, but avoid things like huge anti-roll bars for rallyx (although you could swap those out between events). Just requires some thought and research...
:eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:
And I'm not trying to pick on you, but... :)
[QUOTE]No. A competitve STS RS won't be cabable of rally-x. A GS RS won't be competitive. [/QUOTE]
Define "competitive" - if you're out to win a national championship in autox, you're not going to be running an STS RS, anyway (unless you're hoping for rain or for the guys driving Civics to screw up). :) I've won plenty of (local) autoxes (ftpax, too) driving an STS RS with suspension equivalent to stock STi - and I also won a few rallyxes with that same RS, setup just as it had been at the autoxes. On the flip side of that, I've seen a local guy named Philip ftpax at a few autoxes in a GS RS against several national champions. And the way the car was set up for GS would've been good enough to run FTD at any of our rallyxes (with a tire change, of course :lol: ) Is that "competitive" enough for you? :)
For easy-to-drive, ready-and-willing-to-win cars that could also be competitive in STS at most local autoxes, choose 2.5RS for AWD class or Sentra SE-R for 2WD class. To have fun and have a great shot at winning if you're talented enough, omit the Miata and the rest of the cars will be fine, too.
You just have to watch how you set the cars up - stiff dampers and medium-stiff springs will be good for autox and rallyx, but avoid things like huge anti-roll bars for rallyx (although you could swap those out between events). Just requires some thought and research...
| KSwrxWAGON | 03-30-2006 03:55 PM |
Maybe you can find a used Suzuki Escudo! That would be a sweet autox/rallyx car:
[IMG]http://www.racetothesky.com/gallery/2004/Monster_Tajima.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/suzuki/escudo_1.jpg[/IMG]
You won the powerball, right? :D
[IMG]http://www.racetothesky.com/gallery/2004/Monster_Tajima.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/suzuki/escudo_1.jpg[/IMG]
You won the powerball, right? :D
| KC | 03-30-2006 04:32 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]I've won plenty of (local) autoxes (ftpax, too) driving an STS RS with suspension equivalent to stock .
On the flip side of that, I've seen a local guy named Philip ftpax at a few autoxes in a GS RS against several national champions. And the way the car was set up for GS would've been good enough to run FTD at any of our rallyxes (with a tire change, of course :lol: ) Is that "competitive" enough for you? :)
For easy-to-drive, ready-and-willing-to-win cars that could also be competitive in STS at most local autoxes, choose 2.5RS for AWD class or Sentra SE-R for 2WD class. To have fun and have a great shot at winning if you're talented enough, omit the Miata and the rest of the cars will be fine, too.
You just have to watch how you set the cars up - stiff dampers and medium-stiff springs will be good for autox and rallyx, but avoid things like huge anti-roll bars for rallyx (although you could swap those out between events). Just requires some thought and research...[/QUOTE]
I think I can say this with some confidence that the STS class in my auto-x region (which is the same region the OP is from) is not slow. Getting top 10-20 pax with a mildly prepped 2.5RS in either GS or STS are also almost slim to nil also, in our region, unless the OP is a truly talented driver.
Its tough here for new competitors because we are a region that has some many fast drivers, cars and national trophy winner/champions.
I'm not saying it can't happen. :) But not in a mildly prepped car, not here anyway.
I don't want anyone to have any false hopes of what they're going to get when they come to an event at NERs autox... it just leads them to never come back if those hopes get decimated because someone who has never run here said he's got a really good shot at winning. Reality is much different from possibility.
But... you can still HAVE FUN!
--kC
On the flip side of that, I've seen a local guy named Philip ftpax at a few autoxes in a GS RS against several national champions. And the way the car was set up for GS would've been good enough to run FTD at any of our rallyxes (with a tire change, of course :lol: ) Is that "competitive" enough for you? :)
For easy-to-drive, ready-and-willing-to-win cars that could also be competitive in STS at most local autoxes, choose 2.5RS for AWD class or Sentra SE-R for 2WD class. To have fun and have a great shot at winning if you're talented enough, omit the Miata and the rest of the cars will be fine, too.
You just have to watch how you set the cars up - stiff dampers and medium-stiff springs will be good for autox and rallyx, but avoid things like huge anti-roll bars for rallyx (although you could swap those out between events). Just requires some thought and research...[/QUOTE]
I think I can say this with some confidence that the STS class in my auto-x region (which is the same region the OP is from) is not slow. Getting top 10-20 pax with a mildly prepped 2.5RS in either GS or STS are also almost slim to nil also, in our region, unless the OP is a truly talented driver.
Its tough here for new competitors because we are a region that has some many fast drivers, cars and national trophy winner/champions.
I'm not saying it can't happen. :) But not in a mildly prepped car, not here anyway.
I don't want anyone to have any false hopes of what they're going to get when they come to an event at NERs autox... it just leads them to never come back if those hopes get decimated because someone who has never run here said he's got a really good shot at winning. Reality is much different from possibility.
But... you can still HAVE FUN!
--kC
| 10th Warrior | 03-30-2006 05:00 PM |
Fred, which of the cars the OP listed would be faster around an auto-x or rally-x course than the STi? I'm not sure I get your emoticon 'comment'.
as for winning locally with a mildly preped car, like KC said, it depends on the region. In a region where the class is a dog fight, you'll have to do more than mildly prep the car to win. frankly, that's getting to be the case here for rally-x.
as for winning locally with a mildly preped car, like KC said, it depends on the region. In a region where the class is a dog fight, you'll have to do more than mildly prep the car to win. frankly, that's getting to be the case here for rally-x.
| Fred | 03-30-2006 07:31 PM |
I took your "nothing will be faster" as "nothing else period" - if you were referring to only the cars in the list (and the cars are stock-ish), then the STi [I]should[/I] be fastest at autox (depending on classing) and the RS and STi will be pretty even at rallyx, given rally tires on each and a rallyx course that doesn't favor either car too much. If they're both limited to street tires, the RS will own the STi all day, unless the course is a long straight into a turnaround into a long straight to the finish. :lol:
An RS with a 300 hp engine and decent diffs would destroy an STi, regardless of grip... and it would be a lot less expensive. :)
Really, there are too many variables to this question... how much prep do you want to put into the car? How much to spend? Is autox more important, or is rallyx more important? Do you feel ok swapping the suspension out between events? Etc. etc. etc.
I used to swap suspensions between autox and rallyx with my RS - Koni/gc and AGX/STi springs. Each suspension was excellent for its intended purpose, but I got tired of swapping suspensions. Tried the Tein HG suspension for a while, and it was great for both, but it wasn't exactly comfortable on the road. Stock 04 STi suspension is on the RS now, and it's great at rallyx, comfortable enough on the road, and I guess I'll be seeing how it does for STS autox in about a month, unless the STi is still hanging around.
An RS with a 300 hp engine and decent diffs would destroy an STi, regardless of grip... and it would be a lot less expensive. :)
Really, there are too many variables to this question... how much prep do you want to put into the car? How much to spend? Is autox more important, or is rallyx more important? Do you feel ok swapping the suspension out between events? Etc. etc. etc.
I used to swap suspensions between autox and rallyx with my RS - Koni/gc and AGX/STi springs. Each suspension was excellent for its intended purpose, but I got tired of swapping suspensions. Tried the Tein HG suspension for a while, and it was great for both, but it wasn't exactly comfortable on the road. Stock 04 STi suspension is on the RS now, and it's great at rallyx, comfortable enough on the road, and I guess I'll be seeing how it does for STS autox in about a month, unless the STi is still hanging around.
| GRMPer | 03-31-2006 08:39 AM |
I wonder how some of the 2wd choices would do with a softer (250-300 lb.-in.) coilover set-up with larger anti-roll bars...disconnect bars for rallycross, hook 'em back up for Solo. Mark your oilcover sleeves for the appropriate ride heights and go have some fun.
Per
Per
| randy zimmer | 03-31-2006 09:04 AM |
A Subaru of course.
rz
rz
| KC | 03-31-2006 09:04 AM |
[QUOTE=GRMPer]I wonder how some of the 2wd choices would do with a softer (250-300 lb.-in.) coilover set-up with larger anti-roll bars...disconnect bars for rallycross, hook 'em back up for Solo. Mark your oilcover sleeves for the appropriate ride heights and go have some fun.
Per[/QUOTE]
An SE-R would probably be a better choice for that kind of action... but trying to find onein good condition up here is really hard also. :)
--kC
Per[/QUOTE]
An SE-R would probably be a better choice for that kind of action... but trying to find onein good condition up here is really hard also. :)
--kC
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