| hp12c | 02-02-2004 05:04 PM |
Fiberglass vs. poly vs ABS
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I'm new to the aftermarket kits. Can someone please help me to understand the differences (pros and cons) between fiberglass, poly, and ABS?
From my limited understanding, ABS is the best...however, the bumper kit that I am interested in is only available in fiberglass. I do not plan to lower my car much over my stock height and I am usually very carefull in going in and out of driveways.
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks.
From my limited understanding, ABS is the best...however, the bumper kit that I am interested in is only available in fiberglass. I do not plan to lower my car much over my stock height and I am usually very carefull in going in and out of driveways.
Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks.
| abqkid | 02-02-2004 09:51 PM |
i would like to know as well.
| wRx14pSi | 02-02-2004 10:16 PM |
fiberglass pros, lightweight, cheap and repairable
cons, not as strong, cracking,
urethane and ABS will be groupe d together. basically plastic texture.
pros its flexes , strong,
cons more money, heavy
for now off the top of my head thats all i have
cons, not as strong, cracking,
urethane and ABS will be groupe d together. basically plastic texture.
pros its flexes , strong,
cons more money, heavy
for now off the top of my head thats all i have
| abqkid | 02-02-2004 10:29 PM |
thanks good stuff
| brakphan | 02-02-2004 10:30 PM |
The quality of the fiberglass kits also varies with manufacturing procedure
A cheaper kit may likely use fiberglass sprayed into a mold, which is very cost effective. however, it wont be a strong, and is likely to be heavy
generally, a hand layup for a piece will provide a much nicer fit and finish, and be stronger....and also more expensive
A cheaper kit may likely use fiberglass sprayed into a mold, which is very cost effective. however, it wont be a strong, and is likely to be heavy
generally, a hand layup for a piece will provide a much nicer fit and finish, and be stronger....and also more expensive
| virulous | 02-02-2004 10:39 PM |
Actually fiberglass kits vary in quality and even the most durable fiberglass kits will completly shatter if you get into a fenderbender or scuff your kit.
I recommend you spend your money on abs/polyurethane because if you bump into something, you would only have to repaint the kit.
I recommend you spend your money on abs/polyurethane because if you bump into something, you would only have to repaint the kit.
| abqkid | 02-02-2004 10:44 PM |
i have seen so many hondas and mitsus with the fiberglass kits that are cracked to s**t and it looks terrible. ABS is much more flexible than fiberglass right? What does "ABS" stand for... does anyone one know?
| digi | 02-02-2004 11:07 PM |
I work for Import Adrenelin,
My manager could greatly back me up on all these facts,
We have seen many kits come in and out of our warehouse, most of wish are fiberglass. Fiberglass in a way is good, because it is very inexpensive to produce and can be easily replicated and modified by people. As almost everyone knows fiberglass is very weak and is very prone to rock chips after it has been painted.
Most oftenly fiberglass kits are not produced quite well by companys who are trying to sell as low priced as possible. The fiberglass can be either "sprayed" or "hand laid", when it is sprayed, it is often very thin and low quality. Lots of large companys (ground designs, c-west, bomex, etc..) which offer hand-laid fiberglass have kits which are high quality and have great fitment, I woulnd't mind putting on one of these kits (if we didnt have so many rocks in my area).
Fiberglass also cracks and spiders in cold temperatures, which doesnt help me, seeing as im in canada.
As for myself, i plan on doing some fiberglass zerosports side skirts and a fiberglass zerosports spoiler, I think I should be fine with the spoiler, but im still kinod concerned with the side skirts.
As for the front bumper, i will do authentic urethane, no doubt.
My manager could greatly back me up on all these facts,
We have seen many kits come in and out of our warehouse, most of wish are fiberglass. Fiberglass in a way is good, because it is very inexpensive to produce and can be easily replicated and modified by people. As almost everyone knows fiberglass is very weak and is very prone to rock chips after it has been painted.
Most oftenly fiberglass kits are not produced quite well by companys who are trying to sell as low priced as possible. The fiberglass can be either "sprayed" or "hand laid", when it is sprayed, it is often very thin and low quality. Lots of large companys (ground designs, c-west, bomex, etc..) which offer hand-laid fiberglass have kits which are high quality and have great fitment, I woulnd't mind putting on one of these kits (if we didnt have so many rocks in my area).
Fiberglass also cracks and spiders in cold temperatures, which doesnt help me, seeing as im in canada.
As for myself, i plan on doing some fiberglass zerosports side skirts and a fiberglass zerosports spoiler, I think I should be fine with the spoiler, but im still kinod concerned with the side skirts.
As for the front bumper, i will do authentic urethane, no doubt.
| hp12c | 02-03-2004 11:35 AM |
Thanks for the replys...
Very informative.
Too bad most vendors only offer fiberglass kits. Even the very high-end JDM kits are only offered in fiberglass.
Guess I really need to reevaluate my plans.
Very informative.
Too bad most vendors only offer fiberglass kits. Even the very high-end JDM kits are only offered in fiberglass.
Guess I really need to reevaluate my plans.
| 555 | 02-03-2004 01:17 PM |
Any documentation for how-to-make fiberglasses?
| digi | 02-03-2004 08:16 PM |
most high-end JDM kits are urethane man, well from what I've seen...
| ANashTy | 02-03-2004 08:30 PM |
What is FRP? Ive seen it advertised for a lot of the JDM kits, like Cwest.
| brakphan | 02-03-2004 11:16 PM |
fibre reinforced plastic i.e. fibreglass
| ANashTy | 02-04-2004 06:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by digi [/i]
[B]most high-end JDM kits are urethane man, well from what I've seen... [/B][/QUOTE]
And what kits would those be?
[B]most high-end JDM kits are urethane man, well from what I've seen... [/B][/QUOTE]
And what kits would those be?
| imprezive one | 02-04-2004 06:29 PM |
Is there any way you can buy a fiberglass kit and make it stronger yourself? I was trying to brainstorm about this... what if you were to take a fiberglass kit, and then spray the inside of it with like a truckbed liner like rhinoliner or something? Then I thought maybe that would make it even more rigid and heavy and might cause it to crack more, but who knows. I've never worked with that stuff so I dunno what kind of a material it is.
I wonder if there's a spray polymer out there that is a flexible, light-weight plastic material. The truck bed liner is all I can think of.
I wonder if there's a spray polymer out there that is a flexible, light-weight plastic material. The truck bed liner is all I can think of.
| liigod | 02-04-2004 06:48 PM |
abs > polyurathane > carbon > fiberglass
Frommy perspective I will use abs to carbon depending on the use. For something thatwont ever scrape or get near scraping, Carbon is fine. But for things like bumpers and lips, you have to use some sort of polymer. Fiberglass and carbon are both pretty much useless as bumpers or lips. I personally will NEVER have another fiberglass part on any car I own ever again unless its a sub box or something, its just a crappy material.
Frommy perspective I will use abs to carbon depending on the use. For something thatwont ever scrape or get near scraping, Carbon is fine. But for things like bumpers and lips, you have to use some sort of polymer. Fiberglass and carbon are both pretty much useless as bumpers or lips. I personally will NEVER have another fiberglass part on any car I own ever again unless its a sub box or something, its just a crappy material.
| stiffler | 02-04-2004 11:16 PM |
From personal experience, with a good fiberglass kit, they will not shatter, if bumped, fender bender or scraped, it might crack, but the good news is it is easy to fix and cheap to fix.
ABS OR POLY, are both very good strong durable and flexable material, but if not preped right and if the right kind of paint is not used, you can get spider cracks and flaking, but it's not a big deal if you take to someone who knows what they're doing.
If you crack or scrape POLY OR ABS, there isn't really a good way to fix it other than get a new one.
If fiberglass was such a bad thing then they wouldn't use it to make such things as jet skis, some surf boards, bodies for track cars,(most of them are carbon fiber,) corvettes, alot of companies make complete fiberglass bodies for jeeps, broncos. Alot of companies that make the build your own hot rod replica kits, the body shell is made of fiberglass as well, you just need to check with the company you are considering ordering from, and find out what kind of quality the fiberglass they use, and what methods.
ABS OR POLY, are both very good strong durable and flexable material, but if not preped right and if the right kind of paint is not used, you can get spider cracks and flaking, but it's not a big deal if you take to someone who knows what they're doing.
If you crack or scrape POLY OR ABS, there isn't really a good way to fix it other than get a new one.
If fiberglass was such a bad thing then they wouldn't use it to make such things as jet skis, some surf boards, bodies for track cars,(most of them are carbon fiber,) corvettes, alot of companies make complete fiberglass bodies for jeeps, broncos. Alot of companies that make the build your own hot rod replica kits, the body shell is made of fiberglass as well, you just need to check with the company you are considering ordering from, and find out what kind of quality the fiberglass they use, and what methods.
| calworld | 02-05-2004 12:20 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stiffler [/i]
[B]From personal experience, with a good fiberglass kit, they will not shatter, if bumped, fender bender or scraped, it might crack, but the good news is it is easy to fix and cheap to fix.
ABS OR POLY, are both very good strong durable and flexable material, but if not preped right and if the right kind of paint is not used, you can get spider cracks and flaking, but it's not a big deal if you take to someone who knows what they're doing.
If you crack or scrape POLY OR ABS, there isn't really a good way to fix it other than get a new one.
If fiberglass was such a bad thing then they wouldn't use it to make such things as jet skis, some surf boards, bodies for track cars,(most of them are carbon fiber,) corvettes, alot of companies make complete fiberglass bodies for jeeps, broncos. Alot of companies that make the build your own hot rod replica kits, the body shell is made of fiberglass as well, you just need to check with the company you are considering ordering from, and find out what kind of quality the fiberglass they use, and what methods. [/B][/QUOTE]
Another vote for you. A good fiberglass is just as good as poly or ABS. And bumper are going to be scratched no matter how good you keep it, for instance, my friend bump into a curb, he has a big crack and he can't fix it since it's POLY but my bumper hit a curb and it flakes off a little but it will be fixable for a low cost
[B]From personal experience, with a good fiberglass kit, they will not shatter, if bumped, fender bender or scraped, it might crack, but the good news is it is easy to fix and cheap to fix.
ABS OR POLY, are both very good strong durable and flexable material, but if not preped right and if the right kind of paint is not used, you can get spider cracks and flaking, but it's not a big deal if you take to someone who knows what they're doing.
If you crack or scrape POLY OR ABS, there isn't really a good way to fix it other than get a new one.
If fiberglass was such a bad thing then they wouldn't use it to make such things as jet skis, some surf boards, bodies for track cars,(most of them are carbon fiber,) corvettes, alot of companies make complete fiberglass bodies for jeeps, broncos. Alot of companies that make the build your own hot rod replica kits, the body shell is made of fiberglass as well, you just need to check with the company you are considering ordering from, and find out what kind of quality the fiberglass they use, and what methods. [/B][/QUOTE]
Another vote for you. A good fiberglass is just as good as poly or ABS. And bumper are going to be scratched no matter how good you keep it, for instance, my friend bump into a curb, he has a big crack and he can't fix it since it's POLY but my bumper hit a curb and it flakes off a little but it will be fixable for a low cost
| sime | 02-05-2004 05:03 PM |
yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened.
As for fiberglass it does crack, but I have been thinking that it you had a gel coat put on it. It wouldn't spider in the cold and after a minor bump or 2. My reasoning it that my sister crashed my grandparents jet ski into another one going pretty fast like 15mph it totally cracked one side. My dad's friend and him fixed it and it looked like new. The gel coat is relly what protects the fiberglass to owhile the skis in the water and most boats are made out of it too. Imagine the rigidty of a boat skin as you bumper. Yes it may add a few lbs though.
What do you guys think about that??
As for fiberglass it does crack, but I have been thinking that it you had a gel coat put on it. It wouldn't spider in the cold and after a minor bump or 2. My reasoning it that my sister crashed my grandparents jet ski into another one going pretty fast like 15mph it totally cracked one side. My dad's friend and him fixed it and it looked like new. The gel coat is relly what protects the fiberglass to owhile the skis in the water and most boats are made out of it too. Imagine the rigidty of a boat skin as you bumper. Yes it may add a few lbs though.
What do you guys think about that??
| sime | 02-05-2004 05:05 PM |
also why can't you fix poly? it essentialy plastic. I would and i'm being serious use some good crazy glue. good crazy glue basically eats away some of the material it is applied to and mixes. I used to use the stuff weekly as a kid fixing stuff
| imprezive one | 02-05-2004 06:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sime [/i]
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened.
As for fiberglass it does crack, but I have been thinking that it you had a gel coat put on it. It wouldn't spider in the cold and after a minor bump or 2. My reasoning it that my sister crashed my grandparents jet ski into another one going pretty fast like 15mph it totally cracked one side. My dad's friend and him fixed it and it looked like new. The gel coat is relly what protects the fiberglass to owhile the skis in the water and most boats are made out of it too. Imagine the rigidty of a boat skin as you bumper. Yes it may add a few lbs though.
What do you guys think about that?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I wonder where you can pick that gel coat up at...
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened.
As for fiberglass it does crack, but I have been thinking that it you had a gel coat put on it. It wouldn't spider in the cold and after a minor bump or 2. My reasoning it that my sister crashed my grandparents jet ski into another one going pretty fast like 15mph it totally cracked one side. My dad's friend and him fixed it and it looked like new. The gel coat is relly what protects the fiberglass to owhile the skis in the water and most boats are made out of it too. Imagine the rigidty of a boat skin as you bumper. Yes it may add a few lbs though.
What do you guys think about that?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I wonder where you can pick that gel coat up at...
| ANashTy | 02-05-2004 06:43 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sime [/i]
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, but WHAT kits?
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, but WHAT kits?
| calworld | 02-05-2004 07:00 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sime [/i]
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Can I see the ads? I would love to see how it unmangles out, Thanks
[B]yeah alot of high end japan kits are urethane. I have seen ads showing people driving their cars into curbs the bumper looking all mangle then backing up and it pops/unmangles out. looking like nothing happened.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Can I see the ads? I would love to see how it unmangles out, Thanks
| stiffler | 02-05-2004 08:44 PM |
Honelstly you can not fix it, not to my knowledge anyway, any kind of filler or what not would not stick, the bumper unmangling is not going to happen, you can and will crack it, and you are mistaking about the high end japan kits, yeah some do make poly, kits, some but the higher end use either fibraglass or carbonfiber, and most good quality fiberglass kits already come gel coated, even if you did purchase the gel coat you can not spray through a normal sprayer.
The fact of the matter is, if you are worried about hitting stuff with your bumper or what not then don't get a aftermarket one, you should not worry anymore then you would with your stock one, The only issue I would be worried about is fitment and if the kit is lower to the ground than stock and how much. You know your roads, you decide, just don't start bashing on products that are perfectly fine and that alot of people have used without problems, the question is does it fit your driving style and road conditions.
The fact of the matter is, if you are worried about hitting stuff with your bumper or what not then don't get a aftermarket one, you should not worry anymore then you would with your stock one, The only issue I would be worried about is fitment and if the kit is lower to the ground than stock and how much. You know your roads, you decide, just don't start bashing on products that are perfectly fine and that alot of people have used without problems, the question is does it fit your driving style and road conditions.
| stiffler | 02-05-2004 08:49 PM |
fiberglass will not spider in the cold or crack on a minor bump, what are planning on doing, with the car,
Oh I see your from NY, some pretty nasty driveways and curbs, but still that depends on how low it's going to be.
Oh I see your from NY, some pretty nasty driveways and curbs, but still that depends on how low it's going to be.
| Rentalpillow7 | 02-06-2004 12:47 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ANashTy [/i]
[B]And what kits would those be? [/B][/QUOTE]
i just buyed me a Cwest V2 kit, full front bumper/rear, sides grill.
its made of fiberglass. Seems high quality. SPensive stuff.
[B]And what kits would those be? [/B][/QUOTE]
i just buyed me a Cwest V2 kit, full front bumper/rear, sides grill.
its made of fiberglass. Seems high quality. SPensive stuff.
| liigod | 02-06-2004 03:43 AM |
I perfer to say that fiberglas stuff tears.
| hp12c | 02-06-2004 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by digi [/i]
[B]most high-end JDM kits are urethane man, well from what I've seen... [/B][/QUOTE]
The following "high-end" JDM kits are all made out of fiberglass...
1) Burn-up
2) Syms
3) C-West
4) Do-Luck
5) Aqua
6) Prova
7) Zero Sport
ect...
The only "high-end" JDM kit that I KNOW that is made out of urethane is Tommy Kaira...if you can think of any other, please let me know.
[B]most high-end JDM kits are urethane man, well from what I've seen... [/B][/QUOTE]
The following "high-end" JDM kits are all made out of fiberglass...
1) Burn-up
2) Syms
3) C-West
4) Do-Luck
5) Aqua
6) Prova
7) Zero Sport
ect...
The only "high-end" JDM kit that I KNOW that is made out of urethane is Tommy Kaira...if you can think of any other, please let me know.
| calworld | 02-06-2004 01:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by hp12c [/i]
[B]The following "high-end" JDM kits are all made out of fiberglass...
1) Burn-up
2) Syms
3) C-West
4) Do-Luck
5) Aqua
6) Prova
7) Zero Sport
ect...
The only "high-end" JDM kit that I KNOW that is made out of urethane is Tommy Kaira...if you can think of any other, please let me know. [/B][/QUOTE]
Add one more to the fiberglass list: Chargespeed
[B]The following "high-end" JDM kits are all made out of fiberglass...
1) Burn-up
2) Syms
3) C-West
4) Do-Luck
5) Aqua
6) Prova
7) Zero Sport
ect...
The only "high-end" JDM kit that I KNOW that is made out of urethane is Tommy Kaira...if you can think of any other, please let me know. [/B][/QUOTE]
Add one more to the fiberglass list: Chargespeed
| digi | 02-06-2004 08:16 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ANashTy [/i]
[B]And what kits would those be? [/B][/QUOTE]
Zerosports, cwest does some urethane, syms too?
[B]And what kits would those be? [/B][/QUOTE]
Zerosports, cwest does some urethane, syms too?
| digi | 02-06-2004 08:17 PM |
Calworld, zerosports does nothing in fiberglass. .. well i dunno what their spoiler is made of??
| pj's_Rex | 02-06-2004 09:27 PM |
Plastic can be repaired, but apparently its a new field with few people who know how. I can't give details as I dont know, infact, for all I know my friend Tim has invented a new field, but he claims he learned it in College in one of his motorsports classes. I had a runaway buick hubcap hit the front of my week old rex. Cracked the "ABS" front bumper and chipped the paint, and all that good stuff. So he took a heat gun and a small heating iron thing and basicly remelted the plastic. He attempted to reform it best he could, then put something on it to add some fill. He then sanded it and smoothed it and later painted it for me, well rather had it painted. Its not perfect, I mean I know were it was repaired. Most people don't notice, and it might be in my head, who knows. By the way, hub caps suck.
Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene is what ABS stands for. Its a tough flexible plastic with low cost. Its impossible to glue and also very difficult to paint. I only heard this briefly touched upon, and maybe in bigger cities their exist more paint shops that can do a good job, but around here ABS and Urathane kits are easy to spot. In fact I noticed that many WRX's have paint chips, large paint chips on the plastic parts. This apparently is caused by using a poorly mixed paint designed for metal and not plastic. I guess they put more elastic something or nother in the paint to make it flex with the urathane or plastic. Also, you have to use special primer that is also designed for urahtane or ABS. These materials need to be cleaned very thoroughly as well using special cleaners that remove all grease, coatings, mold releases, etc. If everything isn't just so with the painting process, then the paint will come off easily, especially in our cold NY climate. As bad as fiberglass can be, its much better at taking paint.
How about carbon Fiber reinforced with Kevlar, or even all kevlar. I was told by a shop that makes a lot of this stuff that they like it better than either ABS or Fiberglass as its light, flexible, and strong. I have seen though, it still rips up pretty good in an accident. Oh and fiber reinforced polymers are not the same thing as Fiber glass. Fiber Glass is litterly spun glass fibers. Usually when they reinforce plastics with fibers they either mix fiberglass with the plastic or they use something else like carbon fiber, threads, etc. Its stronger and lighter than ABS alone would be.
Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene is what ABS stands for. Its a tough flexible plastic with low cost. Its impossible to glue and also very difficult to paint. I only heard this briefly touched upon, and maybe in bigger cities their exist more paint shops that can do a good job, but around here ABS and Urathane kits are easy to spot. In fact I noticed that many WRX's have paint chips, large paint chips on the plastic parts. This apparently is caused by using a poorly mixed paint designed for metal and not plastic. I guess they put more elastic something or nother in the paint to make it flex with the urathane or plastic. Also, you have to use special primer that is also designed for urahtane or ABS. These materials need to be cleaned very thoroughly as well using special cleaners that remove all grease, coatings, mold releases, etc. If everything isn't just so with the painting process, then the paint will come off easily, especially in our cold NY climate. As bad as fiberglass can be, its much better at taking paint.
How about carbon Fiber reinforced with Kevlar, or even all kevlar. I was told by a shop that makes a lot of this stuff that they like it better than either ABS or Fiberglass as its light, flexible, and strong. I have seen though, it still rips up pretty good in an accident. Oh and fiber reinforced polymers are not the same thing as Fiber glass. Fiber Glass is litterly spun glass fibers. Usually when they reinforce plastics with fibers they either mix fiberglass with the plastic or they use something else like carbon fiber, threads, etc. Its stronger and lighter than ABS alone would be.
| calworld | 02-07-2004 12:26 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by digi [/i]
[B]Calworld, zerosports does nothing in fiberglass. .. well i dunno what their spoiler is made of?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't say zerosports in made in fiberglass
[B]Calworld, zerosports does nothing in fiberglass. .. well i dunno what their spoiler is made of?? [/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't say zerosports in made in fiberglass
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