| M | 12-24-2004 11:42 PM |
Happy Birthday Gary
�
�
A day late but as they say better late than never. Our beloved Gary sheehan is now 50. congrats gary. keep up the great work for another half century. :D
| GarySheehan | 12-25-2004 01:13 AM |
:huh:
You are such a freak.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
You are such a freak.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| mlambert | 12-25-2004 01:58 AM |
Wow youre a pretty sexy looking young for 50!
| M | 12-25-2004 01:31 PM |
he's just shy
| buzz313th | 12-25-2004 07:02 PM |
Habby B day.... When are we gonna see you racing a suby again.... Gary?
| M | 12-25-2004 10:24 PM |
probably never, The lexus is300 is the greatest car ever made. period. end of discussion
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 12:47 AM |
Yeah for a Yuppy. We are talkin bout a real car..... Real Performance car....
| M | 12-26-2004 01:10 PM |
grand am championships
is300 1
impreza 0
you are the yuppy now!
is300 1
impreza 0
you are the yuppy now!
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 01:38 PM |
U can't compare the two my freind.... The "IS300" runs in the "ST" class and the WRX runs in the "GS" class....... U should probably try and compare apples and apples.... Plus just the fact that the WRX is running in a higher performance class says it all.... :) And I don't even think anyone ran a WRX in Grand Am yet? Did they?
Looks like you got the King Yuppy title back....
Hey "M"... U don't by chance reside anywhere near LA do Ya?
Looks like you got the King Yuppy title back....
Hey "M"... U don't by chance reside anywhere near LA do Ya?
| M | 12-26-2004 02:52 PM |
nope, location : d.c. suburbs.
the reason nobody has run one in GS is because it will get eaten alive. Who wants to spend money to loose. well besdies the mustang teams.
go drive around a parking lot. yuppy racer
the reason nobody has run one in GS is because it will get eaten alive. Who wants to spend money to loose. well besdies the mustang teams.
go drive around a parking lot. yuppy racer
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 03:19 PM |
[QUOTE=M]nope, location : d.c. suburbs.
the reason nobody has run one in GS is because it will get eaten alive. Who wants to spend money to loose. well besdies the mustang teams.
go drive around a parking lot. yuppy racer[/QUOTE]
Just curious.... :confused: Do U actually own/drive an IS 300? Cause your profile says U gota 02 WRX. :confused: Or are U just a bitter Forum Troll, lookin for a public argument? :furious:
Ohh good idea by the way, I think I will go drive around a parking lot, inbetween cones as fast as my Yuppy heart desires..... :banana:
the reason nobody has run one in GS is because it will get eaten alive. Who wants to spend money to loose. well besdies the mustang teams.
go drive around a parking lot. yuppy racer[/QUOTE]
Just curious.... :confused: Do U actually own/drive an IS 300? Cause your profile says U gota 02 WRX. :confused: Or are U just a bitter Forum Troll, lookin for a public argument? :furious:
Ohh good idea by the way, I think I will go drive around a parking lot, inbetween cones as fast as my Yuppy heart desires..... :banana:
| M | 12-26-2004 06:29 PM |
The only is300 i've driven can be found at [url]www.teamlexus.com[/url]
The auto-cross reference refers to the fact that an autocross dominate car is not necasssarily a good car. Autocross teaches less good driving habits than bad driving habits. Example of a car that is awesome in autocross yet is a big piece of crap is the C5 corvette. Sporting transverse leaf springs and technology from the 1920's IT dominates the field. Yet on track it cannot compete with 12 year old rx-7's. with 200 less horsepower.
Additionally much of autocross at the national level is determined by classing. Classing is voted upon by the senior members of the SCCA. These guys make the rules and they make them to suit their cars.
The mini cooper is another car that sucks on track but is lots of fun on an auto-x.
Don't get me wrong i think Auto-cross is a whole lot of fun and a good way to spend a spare $25. It's just no where near as respectable as open track work.
In conclusion the STI is the street car I would buy given any amount of money. AWD is loads of fun on the street and gives you confidence to push the car on your favorite backroads. something everyone has done at some point.
I have a 2002 blaze yellow WRX for reference which i auto-x and last year, maybe two years ago who knows. I beat an is300 in SM on R comps with my STX car. Maybe it was driver but i doubt it. The wrx is a good car, for the street. It is terrible for road racing. I will always choose rwd, or better yet something mid engined and rear wheel drive.
The auto-cross reference refers to the fact that an autocross dominate car is not necasssarily a good car. Autocross teaches less good driving habits than bad driving habits. Example of a car that is awesome in autocross yet is a big piece of crap is the C5 corvette. Sporting transverse leaf springs and technology from the 1920's IT dominates the field. Yet on track it cannot compete with 12 year old rx-7's. with 200 less horsepower.
Additionally much of autocross at the national level is determined by classing. Classing is voted upon by the senior members of the SCCA. These guys make the rules and they make them to suit their cars.
The mini cooper is another car that sucks on track but is lots of fun on an auto-x.
Don't get me wrong i think Auto-cross is a whole lot of fun and a good way to spend a spare $25. It's just no where near as respectable as open track work.
In conclusion the STI is the street car I would buy given any amount of money. AWD is loads of fun on the street and gives you confidence to push the car on your favorite backroads. something everyone has done at some point.
I have a 2002 blaze yellow WRX for reference which i auto-x and last year, maybe two years ago who knows. I beat an is300 in SM on R comps with my STX car. Maybe it was driver but i doubt it. The wrx is a good car, for the street. It is terrible for road racing. I will always choose rwd, or better yet something mid engined and rear wheel drive.
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 07:14 PM |
Ok cool.... Thanks for the informative post.
The vette...not sure if your totally correct... but you may be. I think the guys running the C5's to dominance have rebuilt the rear suspension... Class BSP for example... but I'm not 100% sure. So lets leave that point alone.
The senior SCCA guys probably do suit the classes for themselves, so a smart autocrosser will try to stay with the winning trends. I have no problem with that...
Ok, point taken on the Mini.
But the WRX... Is a great STX car.... Probably the top of the class. I would also like to think the WRX with an LSD is also a great track car, but unfortunately there has only been one instance of proof of that in the US. (SMR racing in the Nasa Series) As I do recall Gary was unbeatable in that series. So the proof is fortunately in the pudding. Until someone gets the balls to take a WRX into the Grand Am series we will not have any good proof for this argument. I too feel the WRX as is is outclassed in GS. If they allowed the LSD upfront, I do think it would do descently well in GS. But again, there is no way to tell, until it happens.
Now as to whether or not road racing is far superior to Autocrossing, or a road racer has more skill than an autocrosser, is kinda a moot point. Autocrossing takes less strategy, teamwork and resources than roadracing takes. Which is also the reason for the inflated expenses in comparison. But both are different animals, and each requires a different driving style and car setup.
I have done both. Well not actually road racing, but I have done solo1 and hotlaps. In my opinion roadracing is more relaxed and less at the limit than autocross. (mostly due to the fact that U can't run 101% roadracing because of resource management) I have also noticed that it is easier to, "Get in the grove" in roadracing than autocross, mostly due to the fact that you are running laps back to back and time slows down as U start to consistently run "your line".
Autocross, in my opinion... Is much more "at the limit" (slower speeds, nothing to hit, 1 lap runs, no resource management, gotta just run "balls out") Things happen much quicker. Any small mistake is exagerated and compounded due to less geography and time to fix your mistake. Unlike in roadracing, you don't have the time or space to think about lines, or braking points, which lends it's way to a "run like your hair is on fire" feeling. Because of the fact that U only run 3 or 4 runs for a race, it's like all or nothing. U can't fall back on your crew or strategy to make up for poor driver performance. 90% of the time after I get off of an autox run, I am so wound up, that it becomes incredibly difficult to just grab my timeslip from the timing person because my hands are shaking so violently. I have never felt that durring a track day... (But I have also never been in a Roadrace series where competition is in your face)
A champion roadracer will always beat a champion autocrosser in a roadrace. And a champion autocrosser will always beat a champion roadracer in a autocross. So to compare the two champions for sake of "who's a better driver" is again, a moot point. But take a roadracer who autocrosses or visa versa and you will have a better driver than one who is close minded.
Outa all honesty, If I had my choice, with money as no concern, I would rather be roadracing. There is more money to professionals, more media coverage, more cars and more driving. But until I can roadrace with no concern on the dollar, I will continue to autocross.....
And in my conclussion.... Your statement about the WRX being a crappy Roadrace car is premature and slightly ignorant. To my knowledge it has only raced in the Nasa series and I think it won the championship in 2002 and 2003 under the controls of Gary Sheehan. I have not yet seen another series that it has raced in. So it's record as an american roadracing car is perfect! Yes or no...
Maybe we will see it soon in another race series. And until then, we can discuss this further.
The nice thing about autocross is that there aren't the egos that reside in the roadracing crowd. As well documented by your earlier post. At the solo2 nationals, there are well known stories of direct competitors helping each other out. To later be be beaten by the ppl that they helped out. You would NEVER see that in Roadracing, too many egos and dollars on the table. Not to mention a ton of A$$ to kiss, to make sure you don't piss off your sponsors. You will never see the comradere that you see at the solo nationals anywhere else in motorsports. With that said..... Solo2 is by far more respectable than Roadracing. It's just that the money and prestige draw most ppl to Roadracing.
Am I biased to Subaru's ....... Hell Yeah I am. I'm a Subaru Owner/Driver!!
:banana:
The vette...not sure if your totally correct... but you may be. I think the guys running the C5's to dominance have rebuilt the rear suspension... Class BSP for example... but I'm not 100% sure. So lets leave that point alone.
The senior SCCA guys probably do suit the classes for themselves, so a smart autocrosser will try to stay with the winning trends. I have no problem with that...
Ok, point taken on the Mini.
But the WRX... Is a great STX car.... Probably the top of the class. I would also like to think the WRX with an LSD is also a great track car, but unfortunately there has only been one instance of proof of that in the US. (SMR racing in the Nasa Series) As I do recall Gary was unbeatable in that series. So the proof is fortunately in the pudding. Until someone gets the balls to take a WRX into the Grand Am series we will not have any good proof for this argument. I too feel the WRX as is is outclassed in GS. If they allowed the LSD upfront, I do think it would do descently well in GS. But again, there is no way to tell, until it happens.
Now as to whether or not road racing is far superior to Autocrossing, or a road racer has more skill than an autocrosser, is kinda a moot point. Autocrossing takes less strategy, teamwork and resources than roadracing takes. Which is also the reason for the inflated expenses in comparison. But both are different animals, and each requires a different driving style and car setup.
I have done both. Well not actually road racing, but I have done solo1 and hotlaps. In my opinion roadracing is more relaxed and less at the limit than autocross. (mostly due to the fact that U can't run 101% roadracing because of resource management) I have also noticed that it is easier to, "Get in the grove" in roadracing than autocross, mostly due to the fact that you are running laps back to back and time slows down as U start to consistently run "your line".
Autocross, in my opinion... Is much more "at the limit" (slower speeds, nothing to hit, 1 lap runs, no resource management, gotta just run "balls out") Things happen much quicker. Any small mistake is exagerated and compounded due to less geography and time to fix your mistake. Unlike in roadracing, you don't have the time or space to think about lines, or braking points, which lends it's way to a "run like your hair is on fire" feeling. Because of the fact that U only run 3 or 4 runs for a race, it's like all or nothing. U can't fall back on your crew or strategy to make up for poor driver performance. 90% of the time after I get off of an autox run, I am so wound up, that it becomes incredibly difficult to just grab my timeslip from the timing person because my hands are shaking so violently. I have never felt that durring a track day... (But I have also never been in a Roadrace series where competition is in your face)
A champion roadracer will always beat a champion autocrosser in a roadrace. And a champion autocrosser will always beat a champion roadracer in a autocross. So to compare the two champions for sake of "who's a better driver" is again, a moot point. But take a roadracer who autocrosses or visa versa and you will have a better driver than one who is close minded.
Outa all honesty, If I had my choice, with money as no concern, I would rather be roadracing. There is more money to professionals, more media coverage, more cars and more driving. But until I can roadrace with no concern on the dollar, I will continue to autocross.....
And in my conclussion.... Your statement about the WRX being a crappy Roadrace car is premature and slightly ignorant. To my knowledge it has only raced in the Nasa series and I think it won the championship in 2002 and 2003 under the controls of Gary Sheehan. I have not yet seen another series that it has raced in. So it's record as an american roadracing car is perfect! Yes or no...
Maybe we will see it soon in another race series. And until then, we can discuss this further.
The nice thing about autocross is that there aren't the egos that reside in the roadracing crowd. As well documented by your earlier post. At the solo2 nationals, there are well known stories of direct competitors helping each other out. To later be be beaten by the ppl that they helped out. You would NEVER see that in Roadracing, too many egos and dollars on the table. Not to mention a ton of A$$ to kiss, to make sure you don't piss off your sponsors. You will never see the comradere that you see at the solo nationals anywhere else in motorsports. With that said..... Solo2 is by far more respectable than Roadracing. It's just that the money and prestige draw most ppl to Roadracing.
Am I biased to Subaru's ....... Hell Yeah I am. I'm a Subaru Owner/Driver!!
:banana:
| M | 12-26-2004 07:59 PM |
Subaru pays a lot of money to the SCCA. I was hinting at their influence in classing. The wrx is supposed to be THE car for STX. Why does it come with an scca membership? because subaru invested a lot of money in the scca and wants people to see how great their cars are.
Noty completely true about your road racing comments. I have lent other people tools, other teams tools because it's the right thing to do. In nascar they do the same thing, nearly everyone lends each other tools because nobody would want to be in that position.
Believe it or not, the road racing community is just as tight nit a bunch as auto-x. Everyone knows one another and there are people who just don't get along. Sure the egos might be bigger but I know a lot of professional drivers that are real down to earth. Gary being one of these guys. Same goes for the nascar crew guys, they really do know everyone.
The Majority of your weekend track event guys are the ones who give road racing a bad name. I know for a fact that in my region I can't stand the weekend trakc enthusiasts. Each one of them thinks they are somehow above most of the other people out there. They have terrible attitudes and really don't know jack about anything. So this is where a lot of the bad image of road racers comes from.
In my personal opinion the WRX would do terrible in grand am because of it's wheight. There is not a whole lot of wheight you can shave from the car and i feel the brakes would be the car's achilles heel. And beside that awd only provides great corner exit speed, the wheight alone that the system adds will really hurt the car. That's why the audi's haven't done much in that series. Money is also a factor. I could all but garuntee that if subaru wants to pay me $500k a season to run a 2 car team I would finsih at least 3rd the first year in the wrx's. You need to realize these cars would be up against the carbon boddied cts-v's and 996 911's. Not a bunch of slouch competiton.
Noty completely true about your road racing comments. I have lent other people tools, other teams tools because it's the right thing to do. In nascar they do the same thing, nearly everyone lends each other tools because nobody would want to be in that position.
Believe it or not, the road racing community is just as tight nit a bunch as auto-x. Everyone knows one another and there are people who just don't get along. Sure the egos might be bigger but I know a lot of professional drivers that are real down to earth. Gary being one of these guys. Same goes for the nascar crew guys, they really do know everyone.
The Majority of your weekend track event guys are the ones who give road racing a bad name. I know for a fact that in my region I can't stand the weekend trakc enthusiasts. Each one of them thinks they are somehow above most of the other people out there. They have terrible attitudes and really don't know jack about anything. So this is where a lot of the bad image of road racers comes from.
In my personal opinion the WRX would do terrible in grand am because of it's wheight. There is not a whole lot of wheight you can shave from the car and i feel the brakes would be the car's achilles heel. And beside that awd only provides great corner exit speed, the wheight alone that the system adds will really hurt the car. That's why the audi's haven't done much in that series. Money is also a factor. I could all but garuntee that if subaru wants to pay me $500k a season to run a 2 car team I would finsih at least 3rd the first year in the wrx's. You need to realize these cars would be up against the carbon boddied cts-v's and 996 911's. Not a bunch of slouch competiton.
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 08:00 PM |
Hey "M"
You know what would be the best experiment.....
We should see if we could set up a small competition.
We get Gary to drive his old Nasa car (The WRX prepped similar to your IS300 without any engine restrictors)
We get your IS300 with your backup driver.... lol
and we get 60 ppl in socal to rent willow or streets of willow for a track day.
Then we take a 1 hour lunch..... and U guys race the WRX and the IS durring lunch. That would solve this dispute.
Only problem is that since Gary is contracted with you guys.... he might let your Yuppymobile win cause of Political reasons..... LOL
If U can get the car out to Socal I can get the track paid for and set it up...
You know what would be the best experiment.....
We should see if we could set up a small competition.
We get Gary to drive his old Nasa car (The WRX prepped similar to your IS300 without any engine restrictors)
We get your IS300 with your backup driver.... lol
and we get 60 ppl in socal to rent willow or streets of willow for a track day.
Then we take a 1 hour lunch..... and U guys race the WRX and the IS durring lunch. That would solve this dispute.
Only problem is that since Gary is contracted with you guys.... he might let your Yuppymobile win cause of Political reasons..... LOL
If U can get the car out to Socal I can get the track paid for and set it up...
| M | 12-26-2004 08:02 PM |
I'll actually be out there next week. I'm pretty sure Gary will agree that the IS currently is faster than his wrx was. The times the IS's were running at VIR are comperable to that of the fastest club racers in some of the fastest cars out there, namely a 400hp rx7.
Additionally, I'd say gary is a back up driver. No offense to him but he's only run once in the cars. I would consider our top driver to be Andy Lally or Ian james(ALMS rookie of the year).
Additionally, I'd say gary is a back up driver. No offense to him but he's only run once in the cars. I would consider our top driver to be Andy Lally or Ian james(ALMS rookie of the year).
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 08:11 PM |
[QUOTE=M]Subaru pays a lot of money to the SCCA. I was hinting at their influence in classing. The wrx is supposed to be THE car for STX. Why does it come with an scca membership? because subaru invested a lot of money in the scca and wants people to see how great their cars are.
Noty completely true about your road racing comments. I have lent other people tools, other teams tools because it's the right thing to do. In nascar they do the same thing, nearly everyone lends each other tools because nobody would want to be in that position.
Believe it or not, the road racing community is just as tight nit a bunch as auto-x. Everyone knows one another and there are people who just don't get along. Sure the egos might be bigger but I know a lot of professional drivers that are real down to earth. Gary being one of these guys. Same goes for the nascar crew guys, they really do know everyone.
The Majority of your weekend track event guys are the ones who give road racing a bad name. I know for a fact that in my region I can't stand the weekend trakc enthusiasts. Each one of them thinks they are somehow above most of the other people out there. They have terrible attitudes and really don't know jack about anything. So this is where a lot of the bad image of road racers comes from.
In my personal opinion the WRX would do terrible in grand am because of it's wheight. There is not a whole lot of wheight you can shave from the car and i feel the brakes would be the car's achilles heel. And beside that awd only provides great corner exit speed, the wheight alone that the system adds will really hurt the car. That's why the audi's haven't done much in that series. Money is also a factor. I could all but garuntee that if subaru wants to pay me $500k a season to run a 2 car team I would finsih at least 3rd the first year in the wrx's. You need to realize these cars would be up against the carbon boddied cts-v's and 996 911's. Not a bunch of slouch competiton.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but the STX rules don't specify a car model... they specify car specifics.... 2.0 turbo, 4 seats etc... etc... I would also give your comment more credit... but the SEB classified the STI to get slaughtered this season... If Subaru money had so much todo with car classification, why is the STI in a class that it will probably be beat?
I'm not talking bout giving somebody tools... I'm talking bout ppl giving out parts and letting others drive there cars... This years Nationals.... Tom Berry 7 time National champ... won through the help of his direct competitors doing just that.
Agree with what U have to say about track events..... But I have no other option, considering it's the only way to get on the track with my budget.
I agree.... I never said I think the WRX would win GS... but to come in 3rd would be ahuge acomplishment, considering what they are up against...
Agree with you on the fact that the WRX has a pretty slim chance to beat cars like the porsche cup cars and CTS's
All in all I am enjoying this conversation. Better than most forum posts...LOL
Noty completely true about your road racing comments. I have lent other people tools, other teams tools because it's the right thing to do. In nascar they do the same thing, nearly everyone lends each other tools because nobody would want to be in that position.
Believe it or not, the road racing community is just as tight nit a bunch as auto-x. Everyone knows one another and there are people who just don't get along. Sure the egos might be bigger but I know a lot of professional drivers that are real down to earth. Gary being one of these guys. Same goes for the nascar crew guys, they really do know everyone.
The Majority of your weekend track event guys are the ones who give road racing a bad name. I know for a fact that in my region I can't stand the weekend trakc enthusiasts. Each one of them thinks they are somehow above most of the other people out there. They have terrible attitudes and really don't know jack about anything. So this is where a lot of the bad image of road racers comes from.
In my personal opinion the WRX would do terrible in grand am because of it's wheight. There is not a whole lot of wheight you can shave from the car and i feel the brakes would be the car's achilles heel. And beside that awd only provides great corner exit speed, the wheight alone that the system adds will really hurt the car. That's why the audi's haven't done much in that series. Money is also a factor. I could all but garuntee that if subaru wants to pay me $500k a season to run a 2 car team I would finsih at least 3rd the first year in the wrx's. You need to realize these cars would be up against the carbon boddied cts-v's and 996 911's. Not a bunch of slouch competiton.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but the STX rules don't specify a car model... they specify car specifics.... 2.0 turbo, 4 seats etc... etc... I would also give your comment more credit... but the SEB classified the STI to get slaughtered this season... If Subaru money had so much todo with car classification, why is the STI in a class that it will probably be beat?
I'm not talking bout giving somebody tools... I'm talking bout ppl giving out parts and letting others drive there cars... This years Nationals.... Tom Berry 7 time National champ... won through the help of his direct competitors doing just that.
Agree with what U have to say about track events..... But I have no other option, considering it's the only way to get on the track with my budget.
I agree.... I never said I think the WRX would win GS... but to come in 3rd would be ahuge acomplishment, considering what they are up against...
Agree with you on the fact that the WRX has a pretty slim chance to beat cars like the porsche cup cars and CTS's
All in all I am enjoying this conversation. Better than most forum posts...LOL
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 08:13 PM |
[QUOTE=M]I'll actually be out there next week. I'm pretty sure Gary will agree that the IS currently is faster than his wrx was. The times the IS's were running at VIR are comperable to that of the fastest club racers in some of the fastest cars out there, namely a 400hp rx7.
Additionally, I'd say gary is a back up driver. No offense to him but he's only run once in the cars. I would consider our top driver to be Andy Lally or Ian james(ALMS rookie of the year).[/QUOTE]
Ok... well lemme know... I would love to set up something like this.... It would be fun...
One week to do this is kinda short but I can try...
If you are serious send me an email... then we can start talking by phone.
My email...... [email][email�protected][/email]
Additionally, I'd say gary is a back up driver. No offense to him but he's only run once in the cars. I would consider our top driver to be Andy Lally or Ian james(ALMS rookie of the year).[/QUOTE]
Ok... well lemme know... I would love to set up something like this.... It would be fun...
One week to do this is kinda short but I can try...
If you are serious send me an email... then we can start talking by phone.
My email...... [email][email�protected][/email]
| M | 12-26-2004 08:16 PM |
we're not going to be able to set this up. I'm just letting you know i'll be out there with the car. I'd like to continue this topic with another thread. I'll get ahold of gary and find out what kind of times he was running at buttonwillow. And then we can compare. I'm heading out there on buisness.
| buzz313th | 12-26-2004 08:37 PM |
Ok... good luck on buisness.
Congrats on the Grand Am Series.
and nice chattin with you.
Lemme know about times for buttonwillow.
Also ... justa question. How close are the car setups... comparing the Nasa Series cars and the ST Grand Am cars.... Bacically is Garys old car prepped similarly to yours?
Congrats on the Grand Am Series.
and nice chattin with you.
Lemme know about times for buttonwillow.
Also ... justa question. How close are the car setups... comparing the Nasa Series cars and the ST Grand Am cars.... Bacically is Garys old car prepped similarly to yours?
| M | 12-26-2004 09:55 PM |
Being a tech oriented guy I am ashamed to say that i don't know. My basic understanding is that The NASA series doesn't have anywhere near the level of competition that the Grand Am series does. Nor the level of technology but as a result NASA is free-er in terms of modifications and such. I'll let Gary comment on the two cars. I'm sure his major complaint with the IS is the braking system which should be fixed before next season.
| zzyzx | 12-27-2004 02:10 AM |
A few comments:
The C4 Vette domindates in A-Stock. It's already been demonstrated that stock-for-stock in autox, the STi can't keep up with the leading C4 Vettes.
And the C5 (Z06) Vette dominates in Super Stock. And the C5 competes quite well in many series, so I'm not sure when the "it sucks in road racing" comments comes from. :confused:
The IS 300 is also very competitive in autox. In D-Stock it is still overshadowed by other cars, but in D-Street-Prepared it took 1st last year at Nats - driver by Derek Butts. I tend to remember the guys that beat me at Nats. :) The IS 300 is a beautiful piece of machinery and is a far better balanced car from the factory than any Subaru. Lexus should be proud of their copy-cat job of the 3 series. I'd be happy to race an inline-6, RWD car with a 50/50 weight balance anyday.
I road race a 2.5 RS and I tend to agree with M in part. The WRX's issues are weight and reliability. The WRX and RS don't have the brakes needed and eat through wheel bearings like candy. Maintenance costs are higher than they really should be, IMHO.
Racing is all about classing and rules. If you're there to win, you go with a known quantity that is favored by the rules. This is true in autox or road racing. Grand Am is not the place for the WRX because of this. Hopefully, however, we'll see a few dedicated efforts in World Challenge in '05 with the allowance of FI. With standing starts as an advantage, perhaps we'll see competitive WRXs in '06. That said the most favorably classed FI car in WCTC is the SRT-4. with 2.4L Turbo motor, you're almost guaranteed this car isn't going to be blowing motors very often.
Oh, and HPDEs (Solo I...) doesn't compare at all to road racing. Qualifying, perhaps, but not the real deal. Solo skills (I & II) come in to play in road racing in qualifying and those times when you aren't door-to-door. Road racing is by far the most involved of all three, but I do feel Solo skills definately help with car control. A number of the top WC drivers have a Solo background. Now, if you're in a "mine is bigger than yours" kinda of discussion, then perhaps I should refer you to the [url="http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm"]Pyramid of Speed[/url]. :)
- Steve
The C4 Vette domindates in A-Stock. It's already been demonstrated that stock-for-stock in autox, the STi can't keep up with the leading C4 Vettes.
And the C5 (Z06) Vette dominates in Super Stock. And the C5 competes quite well in many series, so I'm not sure when the "it sucks in road racing" comments comes from. :confused:
The IS 300 is also very competitive in autox. In D-Stock it is still overshadowed by other cars, but in D-Street-Prepared it took 1st last year at Nats - driver by Derek Butts. I tend to remember the guys that beat me at Nats. :) The IS 300 is a beautiful piece of machinery and is a far better balanced car from the factory than any Subaru. Lexus should be proud of their copy-cat job of the 3 series. I'd be happy to race an inline-6, RWD car with a 50/50 weight balance anyday.
I road race a 2.5 RS and I tend to agree with M in part. The WRX's issues are weight and reliability. The WRX and RS don't have the brakes needed and eat through wheel bearings like candy. Maintenance costs are higher than they really should be, IMHO.
Racing is all about classing and rules. If you're there to win, you go with a known quantity that is favored by the rules. This is true in autox or road racing. Grand Am is not the place for the WRX because of this. Hopefully, however, we'll see a few dedicated efforts in World Challenge in '05 with the allowance of FI. With standing starts as an advantage, perhaps we'll see competitive WRXs in '06. That said the most favorably classed FI car in WCTC is the SRT-4. with 2.4L Turbo motor, you're almost guaranteed this car isn't going to be blowing motors very often.
Oh, and HPDEs (Solo I...) doesn't compare at all to road racing. Qualifying, perhaps, but not the real deal. Solo skills (I & II) come in to play in road racing in qualifying and those times when you aren't door-to-door. Road racing is by far the most involved of all three, but I do feel Solo skills definately help with car control. A number of the top WC drivers have a Solo background. Now, if you're in a "mine is bigger than yours" kinda of discussion, then perhaps I should refer you to the [url="http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm"]Pyramid of Speed[/url]. :)
- Steve
| GarySheehan | 12-27-2004 02:42 AM |
I get called a back-up driver in my own Happy Birthday thread?! What the hell is going on here?!!!! Don't you understand how easily a 50 year old ego can be bruised?
I wish the WRX was unbeatable. We finished 2nd in the USTCC championship 3 years in a row. The 3rd year should have been ours, but we got screwed by rules. To the point that I requested that all of my sponsors write to NASA to take a hard look at the rules, or we were pulling out. Too little, too late, and another 2nd place finish...
I don't think the prep of the IS300 (at least at the last race) is the equal of the USTCC WRX. The WRX had better power, better brakes and better handling. It was higher in weight, though. I'm sure that was a bad example of the IS300 I was driving, though.
I really think the WRX would get it's a$$ handed to itself in Grand-Am Cup GS. It would take quite a few concessions by GA to get that car up to speed.
Regarding being on the edge more in autocross than roadracing, someone isn't driving fast enough on the track. There is no way that roadracing is more relaxing than autocross. If you are driving to the limit, the stakes are much higher in roadracing than autocross. If you're not driving at the limit on the racetrack, you can't compare the two.
Thank you for the birthday wishes!
That is all.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I wish the WRX was unbeatable. We finished 2nd in the USTCC championship 3 years in a row. The 3rd year should have been ours, but we got screwed by rules. To the point that I requested that all of my sponsors write to NASA to take a hard look at the rules, or we were pulling out. Too little, too late, and another 2nd place finish...
I don't think the prep of the IS300 (at least at the last race) is the equal of the USTCC WRX. The WRX had better power, better brakes and better handling. It was higher in weight, though. I'm sure that was a bad example of the IS300 I was driving, though.
I really think the WRX would get it's a$$ handed to itself in Grand-Am Cup GS. It would take quite a few concessions by GA to get that car up to speed.
Regarding being on the edge more in autocross than roadracing, someone isn't driving fast enough on the track. There is no way that roadracing is more relaxing than autocross. If you are driving to the limit, the stakes are much higher in roadracing than autocross. If you're not driving at the limit on the racetrack, you can't compare the two.
Thank you for the birthday wishes!
That is all.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| buzz313th | 12-27-2004 04:05 AM |
All points well taken.
Gary U are probably right, in regards to being on the limit in roadracing. I have never driven wheel to wheel, and I honestly can't comment on that (as mentioned in my earlier post)
Sorry bout my misleading post in regards to the USTCC championship.... I thought that U guys won...
Either way it's good to hear all the objective oppinions...
Gary U are probably right, in regards to being on the limit in roadracing. I have never driven wheel to wheel, and I honestly can't comment on that (as mentioned in my earlier post)
Sorry bout my misleading post in regards to the USTCC championship.... I thought that U guys won...
Either way it's good to hear all the objective oppinions...
| M | 12-27-2004 11:14 AM |
First off, The C5r is not a crovette. none of the suspension geometry is even close to the same and the engine has nothing in commmon with the road car. It just slightly resembles a corvette.
Sorry old man. I'll give you a call this weekend before we head out. I know you're not actually working next week
Sorry old man. I'll give you a call this weekend before we head out. I know you're not actually working next week
| Grintch | 12-27-2004 12:35 PM |
[QUOTE=M] Example of a car that is awesome in autocross yet is a big piece of crap is the C5 corvette. Sporting transverse leaf springs and technology from the 1920's IT dominates the field. Yet on track it cannot compete with 12 year old rx-7's. with 200 less horsepower.
[/QUOTE]
Admittedly, Corvettes tend to be classed favorably, but they also tend to be very competitive in their classes. In addition to the autocross classes they dominate already mentioned, they have dominated T1 for years, the C5R is very strong in GTS (have been fighting back and forth with the ProDrive Ferrari's for dominance for a couple years), etc.. I can't think of any series where "it cannot compete with 12 year old rx-7's. with 200 less horsepower".
[QUOTE=M] First off, The C5r is not a crovette. none of the suspension geometry is even close to the same and the engine has nothing in commmon with the road car. It just slightly resembles a corvette. [/QUOTE]
Major suspension geometry changes are done on any serious race car. The engine is directly based on the production LS1/LS6. Quit making things up.
[/QUOTE]
Admittedly, Corvettes tend to be classed favorably, but they also tend to be very competitive in their classes. In addition to the autocross classes they dominate already mentioned, they have dominated T1 for years, the C5R is very strong in GTS (have been fighting back and forth with the ProDrive Ferrari's for dominance for a couple years), etc.. I can't think of any series where "it cannot compete with 12 year old rx-7's. with 200 less horsepower".
[QUOTE=M] First off, The C5r is not a crovette. none of the suspension geometry is even close to the same and the engine has nothing in commmon with the road car. It just slightly resembles a corvette. [/QUOTE]
Major suspension geometry changes are done on any serious race car. The engine is directly based on the production LS1/LS6. Quit making things up.
| dwx | 12-27-2004 02:07 PM |
First off, Happy Birthday Gary. You sure do look a lot younger than 50...
The C4 Vettes used to go head to head against the 3rd gen RX7 in autocross in Super Stock, and the 3rd gen was the car to have, even against the ZR-1. Once the Z06 came out though, it was pretty much over. Considering turbo lag and everything, that shows you how better setup the RX7 is from the factory.
Peter Cunningham did an autocross with us earlier this year, and he still feels it's more nerve wracking than road racing. He was driving his NSX but then had to jump into someone else's car because the NSX wasn't competitive. :) He's kind of the poster child for solo2 people become road racers though. Him and Randy Pobst.
The C4 Vettes used to go head to head against the 3rd gen RX7 in autocross in Super Stock, and the 3rd gen was the car to have, even against the ZR-1. Once the Z06 came out though, it was pretty much over. Considering turbo lag and everything, that shows you how better setup the RX7 is from the factory.
Peter Cunningham did an autocross with us earlier this year, and he still feels it's more nerve wracking than road racing. He was driving his NSX but then had to jump into someone else's car because the NSX wasn't competitive. :) He's kind of the poster child for solo2 people become road racers though. Him and Randy Pobst.
| Grintch | 12-27-2004 02:30 PM |
He said a C5 was crap not a C4, but a C4 isnt crap either. Z06 has 150 more horsepower than a 3rd gen Rx-7. LT-1 C4 only had 50 more. Most AS autocross wins actually seem to go to the earlier, lighter, stiffer '89 C4 with only 245 (10 less than the RX-7). So M has a problem with exageration. I know from experiance when the STi gets classed against the Corvette (Z06, C5, or C4), it's gonna lose.
Plus he seemed to be saying that autocrossing was crap because a crappy car (C5) could dominate it yet be much slower/uncompetitive on the track. I was pointing out that the C5 has a very impressive road racing track record. Yes, I was lapping one like crazy at my last track day but that was a function of driving skill (or lack of it from the Z06 driver). Also forgot to point out the Corvette's competitive performance in Speed GT, but here of course, the top car seems to be dependent on who the SCCA rulemakes like that week/year, every car seems to have a totally different set of rules applied to it (which can change weekly).
Sorry to hijack your Happy Birthday tread Gary. Hope you have many more.
Plus he seemed to be saying that autocrossing was crap because a crappy car (C5) could dominate it yet be much slower/uncompetitive on the track. I was pointing out that the C5 has a very impressive road racing track record. Yes, I was lapping one like crazy at my last track day but that was a function of driving skill (or lack of it from the Z06 driver). Also forgot to point out the Corvette's competitive performance in Speed GT, but here of course, the top car seems to be dependent on who the SCCA rulemakes like that week/year, every car seems to have a totally different set of rules applied to it (which can change weekly).
Sorry to hijack your Happy Birthday tread Gary. Hope you have many more.
| buzz313th | 12-27-2004 03:03 PM |
Yeah Gary.... sorry to hijack also...
Answer this question though....
When will we see U back in a Suby...???
If anyone is gonna win in a suby in the Speed World Challenge I think Ur the man to do it....
We just need to get subaru to take a portion of all the money they are giving ESX... And allocate some to your team.
Answer this question though....
When will we see U back in a Suby...???
If anyone is gonna win in a suby in the Speed World Challenge I think Ur the man to do it....
We just need to get subaru to take a portion of all the money they are giving ESX... And allocate some to your team.
| GarySheehan | 12-27-2004 03:14 PM |
I'm trying to get back in a Subaru. Things are going slowly. Can't say much more than that right now.
Honestly, it would cost more than what they are giving ESX to be competive in either WC or GAC.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Honestly, it would cost more than what they are giving ESX to be competive in either WC or GAC.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| buzz313th | 12-27-2004 03:27 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]I'm trying to get back in a Subaru. Things are going slowly. Can't say much more than that right now.
Honestly, it would cost more than what they are giving ESX to be competive in either WC or GAC.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Heres my idea... and if U think about it it's not far-fetched at all...
With all the members currently on Nasioc..... If there was a fundraiser where all the members payed 10.00 to SMR/Nasioc Race Team :banana: we could raise in the upward amount of 630,000.00 dollars for the "Nasioc/SMR Subaru Speed World Challenge Car" that would compete in the series. If it was ok with Gary, all donations would entitle a possible board position... Then Nasioc/SMR would have a Nasioc sponsored Race Team....
All things are possible..... Just think about it....
And considering how Die-Hard the Nasioc Members are .... If any internet community could do it.... Nasioc could...
Honestly, it would cost more than what they are giving ESX to be competive in either WC or GAC.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url][/QUOTE]
Heres my idea... and if U think about it it's not far-fetched at all...
With all the members currently on Nasioc..... If there was a fundraiser where all the members payed 10.00 to SMR/Nasioc Race Team :banana: we could raise in the upward amount of 630,000.00 dollars for the "Nasioc/SMR Subaru Speed World Challenge Car" that would compete in the series. If it was ok with Gary, all donations would entitle a possible board position... Then Nasioc/SMR would have a Nasioc sponsored Race Team....
All things are possible..... Just think about it....
And considering how Die-Hard the Nasioc Members are .... If any internet community could do it.... Nasioc could...
| MattGC8 | 12-27-2004 07:42 PM |
[QUOTE=buzz313th]Heres my idea... and if U think about it it's not far-fetched at all...
With all the members currently on Nasioc..... If there was a fundraiser where all the members payed 10.00 to SMR/Nasioc Race Team :banana: we could raise in the upward amount of 630,000.00 dollars for the "Nasioc/SMR Subaru Speed World Challenge Car" that would compete in the series. If it was ok with Gary, all donations would entitle a possible board position... Then Nasioc/SMR would have a Nasioc sponsored Race Team....
All things are possible..... Just think about it....
And considering how Die-Hard the Nasioc Members are .... If any internet community could do it.... Nasioc could...[/QUOTE]
It only takes one small idea to birth a revolution....I would put up $10. I'd rather watch Gary than Bill Aubberlen any day! How does 630,000 sound for a birthday present?
With all the members currently on Nasioc..... If there was a fundraiser where all the members payed 10.00 to SMR/Nasioc Race Team :banana: we could raise in the upward amount of 630,000.00 dollars for the "Nasioc/SMR Subaru Speed World Challenge Car" that would compete in the series. If it was ok with Gary, all donations would entitle a possible board position... Then Nasioc/SMR would have a Nasioc sponsored Race Team....
All things are possible..... Just think about it....
And considering how Die-Hard the Nasioc Members are .... If any internet community could do it.... Nasioc could...[/QUOTE]
It only takes one small idea to birth a revolution....I would put up $10. I'd rather watch Gary than Bill Aubberlen any day! How does 630,000 sound for a birthday present?
| buzz313th | 12-27-2004 07:53 PM |
[QUOTE=MattGC8]It only takes one small idea to birth a revolution....I would put up $10. I'd rather watch Gary than Bill Aubberlen any day! How does 630,000 sound for a birthday present?[/QUOTE]
So would I... I would actually give 100.00 to be part of the process to birth a suby in the Speed World Challenge....
I would like some sort of reply from Gary in regards.. before I consider embarking on this... Plus it would be nice to see if other respond such as you...
This thread will probably get more exposure if we move it and change the title... But I'll wait till we hear something from Gary....
It would also be nice to hear from the Grand Puuba of Nasioc and see if he would be interested also.
So would I... I would actually give 100.00 to be part of the process to birth a suby in the Speed World Challenge....
I would like some sort of reply from Gary in regards.. before I consider embarking on this... Plus it would be nice to see if other respond such as you...
This thread will probably get more exposure if we move it and change the title... But I'll wait till we hear something from Gary....
It would also be nice to hear from the Grand Puuba of Nasioc and see if he would be interested also.
| makofoto | 12-27-2004 09:05 PM |
And matching funds from SOA !!!
| M | 12-28-2004 12:10 AM |
there is a lot more than serioous geometry changes to the C5R. it really has nothing in common with the street C5. None of the suspension geometry is remotely similar. c5 and now c6 use transverse leaf springs. talk about 1915 technology. And it's got awesome skidpad numbers because it has 285 tires in the rear. A steam roller can pull 3 g's but it doesn't make it fast in the slolom (good handling.)
The block is not based off the LS1. It's a 7L all aluminum racing only block. It's dry sump with different coolant passages and such. [url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAD8AtYV9xlyEYXISen1YEm9jWP**7QM2RkuzDTwWKbn7GkQG3Is*mIw*my7xarQDZZbbZ*Fa9nYJr41jKI7TXLGH9VUXA8UjFfFeXz28*88AAAAcXJnAg/c5r14.jpg?dc=4675404363610827263[/url]
there's a picture of the engine bay from waht i believe is 2 years ago. It's hard to find stat sheets on this car at all. But my point is you can't jsut get a bunch of mechanics and money together and build a C5R there is a motherload of engineering that goes into building one. IT's a balls out racecar. I can buy a stock is300 and with 110,000 build a lexus racecar. I can build a daytona prototype (it's a chassis you buy). but i can't just sit down and decide to build a C5R. You can't buy anything close to them. Sorry guys.
I believe scca gt2 is dominated by rx7's but i'm not positive.
Sports cars are supposed to be light with a great power to wheight ratio. The m3 and corvette are bloated pigs. Nothing more.
The block is not based off the LS1. It's a 7L all aluminum racing only block. It's dry sump with different coolant passages and such. [url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SAD8AtYV9xlyEYXISen1YEm9jWP**7QM2RkuzDTwWKbn7GkQG3Is*mIw*my7xarQDZZbbZ*Fa9nYJr41jKI7TXLGH9VUXA8UjFfFeXz28*88AAAAcXJnAg/c5r14.jpg?dc=4675404363610827263[/url]
there's a picture of the engine bay from waht i believe is 2 years ago. It's hard to find stat sheets on this car at all. But my point is you can't jsut get a bunch of mechanics and money together and build a C5R there is a motherload of engineering that goes into building one. IT's a balls out racecar. I can buy a stock is300 and with 110,000 build a lexus racecar. I can build a daytona prototype (it's a chassis you buy). but i can't just sit down and decide to build a C5R. You can't buy anything close to them. Sorry guys.
I believe scca gt2 is dominated by rx7's but i'm not positive.
Sports cars are supposed to be light with a great power to wheight ratio. The m3 and corvette are bloated pigs. Nothing more.
| M | 12-28-2004 12:12 AM |
who do you guys want to run this program?
I'm really not trying to be a dick but all this is is a bunch of guys on an internet forum being armchair quarterbacks. Racing isn't just let's get a bunch of money together and go out there and kick some ass. IT doesn't work that way and i'm sure you're saying to yourself, "yeah i know that" but it sure isn't coming across that way. Say you have 500k for a race team for one year. Let me break down what 500k will get you. starting from scratch which is what would be happening here. assuming a 2 car team here.
60k used double teer trailer.
20k used tractor for trailer.
4k pit box (war wagon, tools, pit guns, air tanks, regulators)
60k 2 sti's
100k entry fees, hotel, food, airfair, meal cards for a team of 12 people
35k remote resevior suspension for 2 sti's including various spring rates
25k wheels and tires for one season.
5k race gas for one season.
1k 4 wheeler and pit cart.
12k for roll cages and safety equipment for each car.
10k for basic motec system for each car. including timing beacons.
100k engine builder contract (includes 2 spare engines and 4 rebuilds, and trackside assistance)
4k extra pit equipment. jacks fire suits etc.
that is just off the top of my head. That doesn't include a place to do any of the work on these cars nor any money for anyone on the crew or the drivers. sure some of that can fall under 100k for the travel and such. but nevertheless we already up to 436k.
It's not cheap and don't expect to get sponsors only having nasioc as the primary funding. A lot of people fly by the seat of their pants. Poverty is owning a racecar my friends.
and randy pobst is a nice guy. I gave him my parking pass at VIR
I'm really not trying to be a dick but all this is is a bunch of guys on an internet forum being armchair quarterbacks. Racing isn't just let's get a bunch of money together and go out there and kick some ass. IT doesn't work that way and i'm sure you're saying to yourself, "yeah i know that" but it sure isn't coming across that way. Say you have 500k for a race team for one year. Let me break down what 500k will get you. starting from scratch which is what would be happening here. assuming a 2 car team here.
60k used double teer trailer.
20k used tractor for trailer.
4k pit box (war wagon, tools, pit guns, air tanks, regulators)
60k 2 sti's
100k entry fees, hotel, food, airfair, meal cards for a team of 12 people
35k remote resevior suspension for 2 sti's including various spring rates
25k wheels and tires for one season.
5k race gas for one season.
1k 4 wheeler and pit cart.
12k for roll cages and safety equipment for each car.
10k for basic motec system for each car. including timing beacons.
100k engine builder contract (includes 2 spare engines and 4 rebuilds, and trackside assistance)
4k extra pit equipment. jacks fire suits etc.
that is just off the top of my head. That doesn't include a place to do any of the work on these cars nor any money for anyone on the crew or the drivers. sure some of that can fall under 100k for the travel and such. but nevertheless we already up to 436k.
It's not cheap and don't expect to get sponsors only having nasioc as the primary funding. A lot of people fly by the seat of their pants. Poverty is owning a racecar my friends.
and randy pobst is a nice guy. I gave him my parking pass at VIR
| buzz313th | 12-28-2004 12:25 AM |
Whow... hold on there turbo... Most of the ppl on this forum aren't as dumb as U think....
We never said we would run the team. We could Possibly raise enough money to just give to Gary to run his own team. He could pick who he wants to help. We might be able to raise enough money to jump start the season... And with that much support from a bunch of Armchair Racers... it makes for great publicity and marketing. It would be easier from that standpoint to get more sponsors... Maybe someone like SOA would match or add some money ... who knows...
But if Nasioc Raised a substantial amount of money... and in return asked for there name on the car. And gave that money to Gary to jumpstart the season... I'm sure after a couple wins .... Gary might have a revolving race team... :banana:
We never said we would run the team. We could Possibly raise enough money to just give to Gary to run his own team. He could pick who he wants to help. We might be able to raise enough money to jump start the season... And with that much support from a bunch of Armchair Racers... it makes for great publicity and marketing. It would be easier from that standpoint to get more sponsors... Maybe someone like SOA would match or add some money ... who knows...
But if Nasioc Raised a substantial amount of money... and in return asked for there name on the car. And gave that money to Gary to jumpstart the season... I'm sure after a couple wins .... Gary might have a revolving race team... :banana:
| buzz313th | 12-28-2004 12:39 AM |
Ohh yeah.... don't worry "M" the WRX probably won't be in your class... so stop sweating about your IS300 losing to a WRX... LOL
| M | 12-28-2004 12:50 AM |
I'm not worried at all. I'm annoyed that you're selling road racing short here. "After a couple wins." Hello, there are teams that spend hundered of thousands a season and never win once. Let alone with a brand new platform in their first season. Sponsors aren't easy to get at all. You really need to know a lot of people and that won't happen overnight. Gary may know several people but i know he's not willing to jump ship and risk it all to start his own team up. Especially not in CA where land isn't cheap for a race shop.
And I'd like to think Gary would have me up there running his team. Believe it or not i really do know my stuff. But this is my last post in this thread. It's really gotten out of hand. I just was going to wish Gary a happy birthday (december 23rd.) and i myself got carried away.
And I'd like to think Gary would have me up there running his team. Believe it or not i really do know my stuff. But this is my last post in this thread. It's really gotten out of hand. I just was going to wish Gary a happy birthday (december 23rd.) and i myself got carried away.
| buzz313th | 12-28-2004 03:02 AM |
[QUOTE=M]I'm not worried at all. I'm annoyed that you're selling road racing short here. "After a couple wins." Hello, there are teams that spend hundered of thousands a season and never win once. Let alone with a brand new platform in their first season. Sponsors aren't easy to get at all. You really need to know a lot of people and that won't happen overnight. Gary may know several people but i know he's not willing to jump ship and risk it all to start his own team up. Especially not in CA where land isn't cheap for a race shop.
And I'd like to think Gary would have me up there running his team. Believe it or not i really do know my stuff. But this is my last post in this thread. It's really gotten out of hand. I just was going to wish Gary a happy birthday (december 23rd.) and i myself got carried away.[/QUOTE]
Look.... Please.. I am not trying to sell Roadracing short... I am a huge fan.. It's just that most of the ppl here on Nasioc would probably easily pay 10/person to see Gary drive a suby in SWC. And considering that it might not be that farfetched to raise money this way. Maybe it would be good for all parties concerned to raise money for a subaru car in Speed World Challenge. My idea is just 18 hours old. and It's not more than just an idea. I know nothing about running a race team and don't plan on doing it anytime soon, but to have ppl that do know about this stuff taking charge (Garry Sheehan and "M" (You)) would be fantastic. The response that I'm really looking for is, "wow good idea, maybe we could raise enough money and actually have our first Enthusiast sponsored race car". OR, "Thats kinda a bad idea since.... YADAYADAYADA... " Please understand... This may be possible. Ppl like You and Gary may very well be excited about having another avenue to generate Racing Funds.
All Regards
Jeff B
And I'd like to think Gary would have me up there running his team. Believe it or not i really do know my stuff. But this is my last post in this thread. It's really gotten out of hand. I just was going to wish Gary a happy birthday (december 23rd.) and i myself got carried away.[/QUOTE]
Look.... Please.. I am not trying to sell Roadracing short... I am a huge fan.. It's just that most of the ppl here on Nasioc would probably easily pay 10/person to see Gary drive a suby in SWC. And considering that it might not be that farfetched to raise money this way. Maybe it would be good for all parties concerned to raise money for a subaru car in Speed World Challenge. My idea is just 18 hours old. and It's not more than just an idea. I know nothing about running a race team and don't plan on doing it anytime soon, but to have ppl that do know about this stuff taking charge (Garry Sheehan and "M" (You)) would be fantastic. The response that I'm really looking for is, "wow good idea, maybe we could raise enough money and actually have our first Enthusiast sponsored race car". OR, "Thats kinda a bad idea since.... YADAYADAYADA... " Please understand... This may be possible. Ppl like You and Gary may very well be excited about having another avenue to generate Racing Funds.
All Regards
Jeff B
| Bonzo | 12-28-2004 09:37 AM |
Hoppy Burpday :banana:
I hope to see you circling Road America this season.
I hope to see you circling Road America this season.
| GarySheehan | 12-28-2004 03:09 PM |
The NASIOC member funding idea definitely has some merit. M is right on with costs and performance, but that's a good chunk to start with and can be used to attract other sponsors with a program partially in place.
Another thing to consider is that the WRX will not do well in SWC TC. Pretty much a done deal in World Challenge's own statements about the turbo cars running. I think there's better opportunity in Grand-Am Cup, and the cost would be comparable.
If you think this is something the majority of enthusiast on this site would support, it is definitely worth a hard look.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Another thing to consider is that the WRX will not do well in SWC TC. Pretty much a done deal in World Challenge's own statements about the turbo cars running. I think there's better opportunity in Grand-Am Cup, and the cost would be comparable.
If you think this is something the majority of enthusiast on this site would support, it is definitely worth a hard look.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| buzz313th | 12-28-2004 03:20 PM |
Ok Gary thats exactly what I wanted to hear....
To go farther with this can we start by establishing contact via email please.
Jeff Barco
[email][email�protected][/email]
To go farther with this can we start by establishing contact via email please.
Jeff Barco
[email][email�protected][/email]
| zzyzx | 12-28-2004 04:12 PM |
[QUOTE=GarySheehan]Another thing to consider is that the WRX will not do well in SWC TC. Pretty much a done deal in World Challenge's own statements about the turbo cars running. I think there's better opportunity in Grand-Am Cup, and the cost would be comparable.
[/QUOTE]
I disagree. The proofs in the pudding as the say, and there isn't any yet. It's all speculation at this point, but it'd be premature to hold such views regarding turbo cars in WCTC.
Maybe not in '05, but I'd certainly wager we'll see some competition from FI cars in '06. WC can't keep them running like dogs for too many seasons.
Grand Am is nice and all but simply doesn't have the marketing value (all IMHO) that WC does.
That said, a WRX in GS would be more like WCGT than TC. That said, costs will be much higher to get the car competing at that level with no track record against such competition. WCTC would be the closest thing to USTCC in terms of prep and race length.
- Steve Sulatycki
[/QUOTE]
I disagree. The proofs in the pudding as the say, and there isn't any yet. It's all speculation at this point, but it'd be premature to hold such views regarding turbo cars in WCTC.
Maybe not in '05, but I'd certainly wager we'll see some competition from FI cars in '06. WC can't keep them running like dogs for too many seasons.
Grand Am is nice and all but simply doesn't have the marketing value (all IMHO) that WC does.
That said, a WRX in GS would be more like WCGT than TC. That said, costs will be much higher to get the car competing at that level with no track record against such competition. WCTC would be the closest thing to USTCC in terms of prep and race length.
- Steve Sulatycki
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-28-2004 05:21 PM |
Hello,
Happy Birthday, Gary! 50? No wonder you can't hold your beer anymore... Sheesh, race once in that Lexus and it scares 15 years off your clock! Must have been quite the bucket of M's bolts, eh? :D
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Maybe not in '05, but I'd certainly wager we'll see some competition from FI cars in '06. WC can't keep them running like dogs for too many seasons.[/QUOTE]
How do you think BMW and Honda would react if the SCCA said to them "despite years of your incredible racing support, we have decided to turn our backs on you, and let Neons and WRXs dominate. And since neither of you have a history of racing turbo production cars, we're pretty much telling you you're out of American racing for the next few years."
The turbos will NOT dominate, at least not if the SCCA has any business and marketing sense...
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Grand Am is nice and all but simply doesn't have the marketing value (all IMHO) that WC does.[/quote]
Who owns NASCAR? Who recently acquired Grand Am? Who knows racing marketing? Hint: there's one answer that will apply to all three questions.
[QUOTE=zzyzx]WCTC would be the closest thing to USTCC in terms of prep and race length.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that losing in WCTC is very valuable... I can build a WCTC car, but I can't change the fact that even I wouldn't want the SCCA to turn its back on Honda and BMW. What kind of long term stability can racing have if the series rules change so drastically that the most involved factory efforts are told to go home?
Joel
Happy Birthday, Gary! 50? No wonder you can't hold your beer anymore... Sheesh, race once in that Lexus and it scares 15 years off your clock! Must have been quite the bucket of M's bolts, eh? :D
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Maybe not in '05, but I'd certainly wager we'll see some competition from FI cars in '06. WC can't keep them running like dogs for too many seasons.[/QUOTE]
How do you think BMW and Honda would react if the SCCA said to them "despite years of your incredible racing support, we have decided to turn our backs on you, and let Neons and WRXs dominate. And since neither of you have a history of racing turbo production cars, we're pretty much telling you you're out of American racing for the next few years."
The turbos will NOT dominate, at least not if the SCCA has any business and marketing sense...
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Grand Am is nice and all but simply doesn't have the marketing value (all IMHO) that WC does.[/quote]
Who owns NASCAR? Who recently acquired Grand Am? Who knows racing marketing? Hint: there's one answer that will apply to all three questions.
[QUOTE=zzyzx]WCTC would be the closest thing to USTCC in terms of prep and race length.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but I'm not sure that losing in WCTC is very valuable... I can build a WCTC car, but I can't change the fact that even I wouldn't want the SCCA to turn its back on Honda and BMW. What kind of long term stability can racing have if the series rules change so drastically that the most involved factory efforts are told to go home?
Joel
| zzyzx | 12-28-2004 05:28 PM |
WC is a volatile series in terms of rules. GT more so that TC, however. That said, you take on the issue reminds me of SCCA Club Racing. Nobody knows better than Eric Prill that he can't afford to create a Pro version of Club Racing. The car markets changes. World Challenge has to, also. Grand Am has actually done a better job in many regards than WC in terms of variety, but given the WRX in GS that's what's known as a "lose lose" proposition.
Joel - For the uninitiated, how about you give us an idea of what it would take to make a WRX competitive in GS? To this point, "M" has stated that it's a loser in GS. What's your take?
- Steve
Joel - For the uninitiated, how about you give us an idea of what it would take to make a WRX competitive in GS? To this point, "M" has stated that it's a loser in GS. What's your take?
- Steve
| Joel Gat, 1.8L | 12-28-2004 07:08 PM |
Hello,
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Joel - For the uninitiated, how about you give us an idea of what it would take to make a WRX competitive in GS? To this point, "M" has stated that it's a loser in GS. What's your take?[/QUOTE]
Steve, see Gary's responses in the other two threads as to what would be competitive and where. We have no doubt a Subaru in televised production-based racing could win...
Joel
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Joel - For the uninitiated, how about you give us an idea of what it would take to make a WRX competitive in GS? To this point, "M" has stated that it's a loser in GS. What's your take?[/QUOTE]
Steve, see Gary's responses in the other two threads as to what would be competitive and where. We have no doubt a Subaru in televised production-based racing could win...
Joel
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