| spazegun2213 | 12-01-2005 02:32 PM |
Harnesses
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I know this has been over in GREAT detail before, but i remember seeing a picture of someones 5pt setup in their Sti and I also remember the 3 (maybe 4) point setup that involved a buckle in the back seat for easy removal. I would like some info on these setups. The buckle one looks really nice as its easy to setup and remove when needed.
I'm looking into getting a harness, I'll need it for next year as i plan to attend EVERY class/track day/autox i can afford.
THANKS!!!
I'm looking into getting a harness, I'll need it for next year as i plan to attend EVERY class/track day/autox i can afford.
THANKS!!!
| bjorn240 | 12-01-2005 02:33 PM |
Buy a proper race seat and use the stock 3pt belts.
- Christian
- Christian
| spazegun2213 | 12-01-2005 02:37 PM |
I have a gc-Lock and love it, but i find when in a corner that my upperbody moves a lot, so I'm thinking the harness would keep me from trying to brace mayself and steer the car.
Also seats are out of my price range.
Also seats are out of my price range.
| bjorn240 | 12-01-2005 02:41 PM |
Yes, but race seats with appropriate side bolsters are meant to hold you in place while under lateral acceleration. Harnesses are meant to arrest forward motion (in an accident).
If you wanted to dig a hole, and asked for a recommendation for rakes, I wouldn't recommend any rake, regardless of how good it is.
- Christian
If you wanted to dig a hole, and asked for a recommendation for rakes, I wouldn't recommend any rake, regardless of how good it is.
- Christian
| Butt Dyno | 12-01-2005 02:57 PM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213]Also seats are out of my price range.[/QUOTE]
Track days are expensive :)
A good seat is probably $500... a track weekend is $350-$400 around these parts.
And a lot of instructors won't wear a harness without a rollbar, i.e. whatever harness you get you might not be allowed to use at a track event. Plus you'd have to buy two.
For autox it's a nice-to-have but with the STi seats youre kinda doomed IMHO as the bolstering is pretty weak. (I've never autox'ed an STi mind you)
john
Track days are expensive :)
A good seat is probably $500... a track weekend is $350-$400 around these parts.
And a lot of instructors won't wear a harness without a rollbar, i.e. whatever harness you get you might not be allowed to use at a track event. Plus you'd have to buy two.
For autox it's a nice-to-have but with the STi seats youre kinda doomed IMHO as the bolstering is pretty weak. (I've never autox'ed an STi mind you)
john
| spazegun2213 | 12-01-2005 03:07 PM |
True track days are pricey, but another reason (the main one) i would rather not replace them is that the seats have the side airbags in them. This will NOT be a full time track car, and i like thinking that side airbags could save my life...
| javid | 12-01-2005 04:19 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Buy a proper race seat and use the stock 3pt belts.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
how on earth can you get the stock belt to work with a fixed back bucket seat? Did you mean "or" instaed of "and".
ButtDyno: A good seat may be found for 500 but the rails, mounts, hardware + shipping will bring the bill up to 800. Smaller tracks run track days for as little as 100 a day.
If an instructor wants to slide around the car thats fine. But an instructor won't force you not to use your 4/5/6 point. I know a few track-day folks that just run 1 belt. As your aware, you can get the passenger belt to lock in a suby (and tons of other cars) by extending it all the way out and then retracting it back in snuggly. Why people by a pair of those CG Locks is beyond me.
spazegun2213: I just upgraded from stock seats + 4 pt + harness bar to an EVO L seat + 6 point and harness bar. It was a very nice improvement, feeling what the car is doing is much easier. I have seen a number of folks at tracks that skip the bar and use the child anchores in the rear. Lots of folks on these boards are certain that is a bad way to go. I personally don't know how much weight those anchores are good for, but I had the extra cash for the bar and picked one up. If you want to buy a ~1 year old black sparco 4 pt; I gots one sit'in here.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
how on earth can you get the stock belt to work with a fixed back bucket seat? Did you mean "or" instaed of "and".
ButtDyno: A good seat may be found for 500 but the rails, mounts, hardware + shipping will bring the bill up to 800. Smaller tracks run track days for as little as 100 a day.
If an instructor wants to slide around the car thats fine. But an instructor won't force you not to use your 4/5/6 point. I know a few track-day folks that just run 1 belt. As your aware, you can get the passenger belt to lock in a suby (and tons of other cars) by extending it all the way out and then retracting it back in snuggly. Why people by a pair of those CG Locks is beyond me.
spazegun2213: I just upgraded from stock seats + 4 pt + harness bar to an EVO L seat + 6 point and harness bar. It was a very nice improvement, feeling what the car is doing is much easier. I have seen a number of folks at tracks that skip the bar and use the child anchores in the rear. Lots of folks on these boards are certain that is a bad way to go. I personally don't know how much weight those anchores are good for, but I had the extra cash for the bar and picked one up. If you want to buy a ~1 year old black sparco 4 pt; I gots one sit'in here.
| bjorn240 | 12-01-2005 04:36 PM |
[QUOTE=javid]how on earth can you get the stock belt to work with a fixed back bucket seat? Did you mean "or" instaed of "and".
[/QUOTE]
No, I meant "and."
Assuming LHD car:
1) Install new seat
2) Remove lower mounting point of seatbelt from bottom of b-pillar.
3) Thread lower mounting point of seatbelt through left side lap belt hole in seat from inside to outside.
4) Reinstall lower mounting point of seatbelt in bottom of b-pillar.
5) Sit.
6) Take seatbelt tongue and hold across your body as you would normally install.
7) Thread seatbelt tongue through right side lap belt hole in seat.
8) Insert tongue into seatbelt buckle. CLICK.
9) Drive safely.
- Christian
[/QUOTE]
No, I meant "and."
Assuming LHD car:
1) Install new seat
2) Remove lower mounting point of seatbelt from bottom of b-pillar.
3) Thread lower mounting point of seatbelt through left side lap belt hole in seat from inside to outside.
4) Reinstall lower mounting point of seatbelt in bottom of b-pillar.
5) Sit.
6) Take seatbelt tongue and hold across your body as you would normally install.
7) Thread seatbelt tongue through right side lap belt hole in seat.
8) Insert tongue into seatbelt buckle. CLICK.
9) Drive safely.
- Christian
| Butt Dyno | 12-01-2005 04:45 PM |
[QUOTE=javid]ButtDyno: A good seat may be found for 500 but the rails, mounts, hardware + shipping will bring the bill up to 800. [/quote]Good point. I think the brackets on my Evo seats were ~$200 each.
[QUOTE=javid]Smaller tracks run track days for as little as 100 a day.[/quote]Around here the cheapest (that I know of?) is BSR/FATT at $220 for a Friday :(
[QUOTE=javid]If an instructor wants to slide around the car thats fine. But an instructor won't force you not to use your 4/5/6 point. [/quote]Depends on the instructor. Some of them don't want their students to do anything that they think is dangerous :)
[QUOTE=javid]Smaller tracks run track days for as little as 100 a day.[/quote]Around here the cheapest (that I know of?) is BSR/FATT at $220 for a Friday :(
[QUOTE=javid]If an instructor wants to slide around the car thats fine. But an instructor won't force you not to use your 4/5/6 point. [/quote]Depends on the instructor. Some of them don't want their students to do anything that they think is dangerous :)
| javid | 12-01-2005 04:46 PM |
bjorn240: You my freind, are a super genius.
| spazegun2213 | 12-01-2005 06:02 PM |
javid, I'm a tall guy so i have ruled out a harness bar :( And i searched but i cant find the pictures. There is a 3 or 4pt that uses seatbelt type buckles in the back seat to anchor the sholder straps. I really liked that because, i can remove the harness quickly and easily.
OK, so I'm retarted, [URL=http://car.blogs.com/soloracer/2005/10/schroth_subaru_.html]this[/URL] is what i was looking for.
OK, so I'm retarted, [URL=http://car.blogs.com/soloracer/2005/10/schroth_subaru_.html]this[/URL] is what i was looking for.
| REX8 | 12-01-2005 06:22 PM |
Good choice on the Schroth...DOT legal, and do the job for autox's and track days that are few and far between...
| AndrewSS | 12-01-2005 08:09 PM |
hey, i had a thread about the 5pt harness: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878449&highlight=5pt+harness+solution[/url]
now, remeber i use mine for AUTOX not daily driving or trackdays, i love the 5pt over my old 4pt setup, the way the 5th pt resists letting the lap belts from rising is GREAT in my opinion. Hope that helps.
now, remeber i use mine for AUTOX not daily driving or trackdays, i love the 5pt over my old 4pt setup, the way the 5th pt resists letting the lap belts from rising is GREAT in my opinion. Hope that helps.
| AlexP | 12-01-2005 08:42 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]
Around here the cheapest (that I know of?) is BSR/FATT at $220 for a Friday :(
[/QUOTE]
EMRA time trials are about $135 for an hour of track time and a time trial. They run at BeaveRun, Limerock, Pocono (several times), Summit Point, Watkin's Glen, and maybe a few others that I'm missing...
Around here the cheapest (that I know of?) is BSR/FATT at $220 for a Friday :(
[/QUOTE]
EMRA time trials are about $135 for an hour of track time and a time trial. They run at BeaveRun, Limerock, Pocono (several times), Summit Point, Watkin's Glen, and maybe a few others that I'm missing...
| spazegun2213 | 12-01-2005 11:17 PM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS]hey, i had a thread about the 5pt harness: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878449&highlight=5pt+harness+solution[/url]
now, remeber i use mine for AUTOX not daily driving or trackdays, i love the 5pt over my old 4pt setup, the way the 5th pt resists letting the lap belts from rising is GREAT in my opinion. Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]
It was your 5pt setup i REALLY liked. how hard was the bar to fab? do you have any measurements for it?
thanks
now, remeber i use mine for AUTOX not daily driving or trackdays, i love the 5pt over my old 4pt setup, the way the 5th pt resists letting the lap belts from rising is GREAT in my opinion. Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]
It was your 5pt setup i REALLY liked. how hard was the bar to fab? do you have any measurements for it?
thanks
| AndrewSS | 12-01-2005 11:53 PM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213]It was your 5pt setup i REALLY liked. how hard was the bar to fab? do you have any measurements for it?
thanks[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I didnt make the bar, a friend of mine did, if you are interested he can make you a set. Since you live in indiana and if you are interested I could drop you off a set if you wanted them, as im going to school in Marion, IN and the guy making them lives in a south-eastern suburb of chicago. Anyway let me know.
-Andrew
thanks[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I didnt make the bar, a friend of mine did, if you are interested he can make you a set. Since you live in indiana and if you are interested I could drop you off a set if you wanted them, as im going to school in Marion, IN and the guy making them lives in a south-eastern suburb of chicago. Anyway let me know.
-Andrew
| AndrewSS | 12-02-2005 12:00 AM |
^ i just noticed you live in the opposite corner of indiana, a drop off... seems out of the question to me now, lol, anyway let me know if you are still interested.
| spazegun2213 | 12-02-2005 03:53 AM |
[QUOTE=AndrewSS]^ i just noticed you live in the opposite corner of indiana, a drop off... seems out of the question to me now, lol, anyway let me know if you are still interested.[/QUOTE]
I'm out that way all the time, so if your interested in selling the 4pt I might just take that off your hands. How did you mount the sholder straps?
I'm out that way all the time, so if your interested in selling the 4pt I might just take that off your hands. How did you mount the sholder straps?
| AndrewSS | 12-02-2005 12:51 PM |
shoulder straps secure on my harness bar. my setup isnt forsale.
| supersport | 12-02-2005 01:00 PM |
I've seen a prototype of a harness bar that rally innovations is working on that bolts to the 3 child seat anchors. It looks very nice, is removable, and will not smash the faces of your back seat passengers like the regular harness bars would.
They are vendors here pm them if you're interested.
They are vendors here pm them if you're interested.
| Safe Drives | 12-02-2005 04:17 PM |
Are Harness Bars Safe?
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Hi all,
I'm Charles from [url="safedrives.com"]Safe Drives LLC[/url].
Are these darn harness bars safe?... You won't find a harness bar from Sparco or RI's at our webisite for a reason. Stand alone harness bars have questionable safety attributes and no testing data is available, I've asked... For the same money you can get the Autopower bolt in 4 point roll over bar kit which is [i]wayyyy[/i] safer than the just a harness bar. The cost is about the same too.
I feel that for the person who really wants the [i]minimum[/i] to install a [b]safe[/b] 4, 5, or 6 point seatbelt system in a street car, there is really a need for at least a 4 point bolt in roll bar with a harness bar like the Autopower kit shown here.
[img]http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/autopower/raceroll_sm.gif[/img]
With this you just add a harness and padding and you have yourself a big big safety upgrade. :devil:
HTH!
Please drive safe!
Best regards,
Charles Buren
[url="www.safedrives.com"]Safe Drives LLC[/url]
I'm Charles from [url="safedrives.com"]Safe Drives LLC[/url].
Are these darn harness bars safe?... You won't find a harness bar from Sparco or RI's at our webisite for a reason. Stand alone harness bars have questionable safety attributes and no testing data is available, I've asked... For the same money you can get the Autopower bolt in 4 point roll over bar kit which is [i]wayyyy[/i] safer than the just a harness bar. The cost is about the same too.
I feel that for the person who really wants the [i]minimum[/i] to install a [b]safe[/b] 4, 5, or 6 point seatbelt system in a street car, there is really a need for at least a 4 point bolt in roll bar with a harness bar like the Autopower kit shown here.
[img]http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/autopower/raceroll_sm.gif[/img]
With this you just add a harness and padding and you have yourself a big big safety upgrade. :devil:
HTH!
Please drive safe!
Best regards,
Charles Buren
[url="www.safedrives.com"]Safe Drives LLC[/url]
| sciolist | 12-02-2005 04:29 PM |
I use a harness bar in my autoX car, which also happens to be driven on the street. I use the OEM 3-points for street and track driving. This is a perfectly safe and legitimate use of a harness bar.
Money is not necessarily the operative concern. For autoX, the additional weight of the roll bar is a liability, to say nothing of its limitations in terms of using the back seat to carry race wheels and other gear.
Money is not necessarily the operative concern. For autoX, the additional weight of the roll bar is a liability, to say nothing of its limitations in terms of using the back seat to carry race wheels and other gear.
| WillysPU | 12-02-2005 05:12 PM |
Depsite the rollbar/harness argument it is really nice to be snug in my oem seat using my Quick Fit Schroth detachable 4 pt harness.
[url="http://www.soloracer.com/wrxstirallye4.html"]http://www.soloracer.com/wrxstirallye4.html[/url]
[url="http://www.soloracer.com/wrxstirallye4.html"]http://www.soloracer.com/wrxstirallye4.html[/url]
| AndrewSS | 12-02-2005 10:59 PM |
[QUOTE=sciolist]I use a harness bar in my autoX car, which also happens to be driven on the street. I use the OEM 3-points for street and track driving. This is a perfectly safe and legitimate use of a harness bar.
Money is not necessarily the operative concern. For autoX, the additional weight of the roll bar is a liability, to say nothing of its limitations in terms of using the back seat to carry race wheels and other gear.[/QUOTE]
i agree, although I would love a real roll cage/bar this is my street car, a harness bar set up is totally legit for autox driving. The reason i love it over a just 4pt harness that anchors into the back seats is the fact that I have a 5pt camlock and I REALLY REALLY like the extra 5th point, seriously when I just used the 4pt system I was getting really frustrated about how whenever I would tighten the shoulder straps my lap belts would rise (yes they were tight, im quite skinny and it was getting painfully tight) Anyway, what im saying is there is a legit use of a harness+harness bar setting BUT this is for autox driving, I dont use this at the track or street. I love my 5pt setup for autox its TONS better than the 3pt and a lot better than the 4pt setup (maybe exagerated for me due to my certain physique i suppose).
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Money is not necessarily the operative concern. For autoX, the additional weight of the roll bar is a liability, to say nothing of its limitations in terms of using the back seat to carry race wheels and other gear.[/QUOTE]
i agree, although I would love a real roll cage/bar this is my street car, a harness bar set up is totally legit for autox driving. The reason i love it over a just 4pt harness that anchors into the back seats is the fact that I have a 5pt camlock and I REALLY REALLY like the extra 5th point, seriously when I just used the 4pt system I was getting really frustrated about how whenever I would tighten the shoulder straps my lap belts would rise (yes they were tight, im quite skinny and it was getting painfully tight) Anyway, what im saying is there is a legit use of a harness+harness bar setting BUT this is for autox driving, I dont use this at the track or street. I love my 5pt setup for autox its TONS better than the 3pt and a lot better than the 4pt setup (maybe exagerated for me due to my certain physique i suppose).
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
| WillysPU | 12-02-2005 11:16 PM |
I would agree the problem with the 4-points is the lap pulls up when the shoulders are tightened . . . and I am not that thin.
I can't put in the roll bar 'cause I have to transport 3 kids in the car on a regular basis.
I can't put in the roll bar 'cause I have to transport 3 kids in the car on a regular basis.
| RS_Racer | 12-03-2005 10:26 AM |
[QUOTE=WillysPU]I would agree the problem with the 4-points is the lap pulls up when the shoulders are tightened . . . and I am not that thin.
I can't put in the roll bar 'cause I have to transport 3 kids in the car on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
I have the Schroth setup too. Works great. One little trick is to get the lap belt situated and as tight as possible before tightening down the shoulder belts. What I do at autocrosses is put my seat back one notch farther than I like it, then tighten the lap belt, then reach down and pull the seat forward one notch which further tightens the lap belt, and then I tighten the shoulder belts. Between autocross runs, before releasing the harness, I loosen the shoulder belts as much as I can, but leave the lap belt tight, then I realease the harness, move the seat back one notch, and get out of the car. That way the lap belt is already tight for the next run.
I can't put in the roll bar 'cause I have to transport 3 kids in the car on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]
I have the Schroth setup too. Works great. One little trick is to get the lap belt situated and as tight as possible before tightening down the shoulder belts. What I do at autocrosses is put my seat back one notch farther than I like it, then tighten the lap belt, then reach down and pull the seat forward one notch which further tightens the lap belt, and then I tighten the shoulder belts. Between autocross runs, before releasing the harness, I loosen the shoulder belts as much as I can, but leave the lap belt tight, then I realease the harness, move the seat back one notch, and get out of the car. That way the lap belt is already tight for the next run.
| JM530 | 12-03-2005 10:44 AM |
Isn't the Schroth one not track approved at some road tracks? I have heard that out here, but that may only pertain to some places in the midwest.
Also, where is everyone buying harness bars from?
Also, where is everyone buying harness bars from?
| RS_Racer | 12-03-2005 12:59 PM |
[QUOTE=JM530]Isn't the Schroth one not track approved at some road tracks? I have heard that out here, but that may only pertain to some places in the midwest.
Also, where is everyone buying harness bars from?[/QUOTE]
I only use mine for autocross, but don't see why it wouldn't be OK on the track. Ya I've heard all the rollover warnings, but personally wouldn't be worried about it. As for as submarining under the lap belt, Lotus is producing a track ready car called the Exige Cup 240, and it has a cage, race seat, and 4 point belts.... so they must see 4 point belts as safe. The Schroths have that mechanism that is supposed to prevent sliding under the lap belt, so if there was a belt to use, I'd say the Schroth is the one.
Also, where is everyone buying harness bars from?[/QUOTE]
I only use mine for autocross, but don't see why it wouldn't be OK on the track. Ya I've heard all the rollover warnings, but personally wouldn't be worried about it. As for as submarining under the lap belt, Lotus is producing a track ready car called the Exige Cup 240, and it has a cage, race seat, and 4 point belts.... so they must see 4 point belts as safe. The Schroths have that mechanism that is supposed to prevent sliding under the lap belt, so if there was a belt to use, I'd say the Schroth is the one.
| AndrewSS | 12-03-2005 08:29 PM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]I have the Schroth setup too. Works great. One little trick is to get the lap belt situated and as tight as possible before tightening down the shoulder belts. What I do at autocrosses is put my seat back one notch farther than I like it, then tighten the lap belt, then reach down and pull the seat forward one notch which further tightens the lap belt, and then I tighten the shoulder belts. Between autocross runs, before releasing the harness, I loosen the shoulder belts as much as I can, but leave the lap belt tight, then I realease the harness, move the seat back one notch, and get out of the car. That way the lap belt is already tight for the next run.[/QUOTE]
yeah, but it still rises up with me and fits less than ideal just using the 4pt set up, i would tighten my lap belts until it was sharp pain on my hips, then try to get my shoulders tightened properly, it would still rise and feel akward IMO... just didnt work for me
yeah, but it still rises up with me and fits less than ideal just using the 4pt set up, i would tighten my lap belts until it was sharp pain on my hips, then try to get my shoulders tightened properly, it would still rise and feel akward IMO... just didnt work for me
| spazegun2213 | 12-04-2005 10:09 PM |
This (mounting of the harness) is certianly a problem that I'll have to sort out, i wonder if there is a 4+ pt cage that can be bolted and unbolted.... time to send some PM's
| Calamity Jesus | 12-05-2005 12:46 AM |
[QUOTE=RS_Racer]The Schroths have that [B]mechanism[/B] that is supposed to prevent sliding under the lap belt, so if there was a belt to use, I'd say the Schroth is the one.[/QUOTE]ASM = [B]A[/B]nti-[B]S[/B]ub[B]M[/B]arining
[url=http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/SchrothASMII.wmv]ASM Video[/url]
[url=http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/SchrothASMII.wmv]ASM Video[/url]
| spazegun2213 | 12-05-2005 01:45 PM |
wow nice video thanks for the info
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