| ka mano | 01-10-2006 04:55 AM |
How would this wing affect road racing?
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What do you guys think of this wing from an aero perspective (not looks)? Would it improve performance on a road course?[indent][url="http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1_5_48_70/products_id/445"][u][color=darkgreen]Dolphin wagon wing[/color][/u][/url]
[/indent]If it were just bling, I wouldn't get it... that's why I'm posting here.
[/indent]If it were just bling, I wouldn't get it... that's why I'm posting here.
| svek | 01-10-2006 05:02 AM |
i highly doubt that does anything. and it looks gay
| XenoWolf | 01-10-2006 08:02 AM |
Wow, that $600 can definately be spent in better ways.
| 4wdrift | 01-10-2006 02:27 PM |
Good luck ordering from Vivid. :lol:
You might want to do a search on this site. Be warned....
You might want to do a search on this site. Be warned....
| trhoppe | 01-10-2006 02:33 PM |
Your question is about the same as
[quote]
How does this affect road racing?
[img]http://www.kevins90gsx.com/BOVSimulator/bovpic.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.kevins90gsx.com/BOVSimulator/BOVSimulator.html[/url]
[/quote]
-Tom
[quote]
How does this affect road racing?
[img]http://www.kevins90gsx.com/BOVSimulator/bovpic.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.kevins90gsx.com/BOVSimulator/BOVSimulator.html[/url]
[/quote]
-Tom
| rockcas | 01-10-2006 02:40 PM |
That will have absolutly no effect on the performance of your car. an air foil (or wing) must be shaped at least in the form as an airplane wing(such as the STI's) to have any down force effect. A wing that is simply put at an angle will only cuase more drag which will diminish the performance of your vehicle at high speeds. I say this coming from an aeronautics back ground and not because i am just speaking out of my arse.
| ratt_finkel | 01-10-2006 02:44 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Your question is about the same as
-Tom[/QUOTE]
haha, wth is that thing?!?!
-Tom[/QUOTE]
haha, wth is that thing?!?!
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-10-2006 02:45 PM |
generally... most "aerodynamic" parts... will not help your car in typical AutoX'ing or road coursing... nearly as much as that same amount of money would be into suspension or driving lessons.
If you really want aerodynamics that are cheap, and work, and dont care about looks... get aluminum wing off the back of the hatch, and a plywood splitter under the front bumper. yes i know its ricey, but for $50 you cant beat the downforce.
If you really want aerodynamics that are cheap, and work, and dont care about looks... get aluminum wing off the back of the hatch, and a plywood splitter under the front bumper. yes i know its ricey, but for $50 you cant beat the downforce.
| turboICE | 01-10-2006 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=svek]i highly doubt that does anything.[/QUOTE]I guarantee you it does something. As to whether or not it would be beneficial is another story.
Ask subiegal she drives the wagon better than anybody's business.
Ask subiegal she drives the wagon better than anybody's business.
| MFR Sweep | 01-10-2006 02:47 PM |
[QUOTE=ka mano]What do you guys think of this wing from an aero perspective (not looks)? Would it improve performance on a road course?[indent][url="http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1_5_48_70/products_id/445"][u][color=darkgreen]Dolphin wagon wing[/color][/u][/url]
[/indent]If it were just bling, I wouldn't get it... that's why I'm posting here.[/QUOTE]
it would make you win all your races. But mostly because everyone would crash because of laughing
[/indent]If it were just bling, I wouldn't get it... that's why I'm posting here.[/QUOTE]
it would make you win all your races. But mostly because everyone would crash because of laughing
| turboICE | 01-10-2006 02:49 PM |
There is no road course class I can think of where it would be permitted anyway, so racing isn't an issue. However, there could be some severe abuse given at an HPDE.
| WRXedUSA | 01-10-2006 02:54 PM |
Hey! Vivid racing is selling it! I hear they have great customer service & instock discounts!
| trhoppe | 01-10-2006 03:02 PM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]haha, wth is that thing?!?![/QUOTE]
BOV Simulator
-Tom
BOV Simulator
-Tom
| ka mano | 01-10-2006 07:35 PM |
I hear ya, [b][color=navy]4wdrift[/color][/b]... just using their pic. And thanks, [b][color=navy]TurboICE[/color][/b]... I'll check in with Jamie.[QUOTE=TrizzyDizzy]generally... most "aerodynamic" parts... will not help your car in typical AutoX'ing or road coursing... nearly as much as that same amount of money would be into suspension or driving lessons.
If you really want aerodynamics that are cheap, and work, and dont care about looks... get aluminum wing off the back of the hatch, and a plywood splitter under the front bumper. yes i know its ricey, but for $50 you cant beat the downforce.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I've got the suspension + the plans for training. I'll look into your aero suggestions. I hadn't considered that the stock wing could be creating more drag than any downforce advantage. As far as the splitter goes, I don't care what it'd look like on the track if it's safe and improves handling.
[QUOTE=rockcas]That will have absolutly no effect on the performance of your car. an air foil (or wing) must be shaped at least in the form as an airplane wing(such as the STI's) to have any down force effect. A wing that is simply put at an angle will only cuase more drag which will diminish the performance of your vehicle at high speeds. I say this coming from an aeronautics back ground and not because i am just speaking out of my arse.[/QUOTE]What I suspected, thanks. I was hoping someone with an aeronautics back ground would weigh in. What do you recommend for ground effects? Do you agree with [b][color=navy]TrizzyDizzy[/color][/b] about removing the stock wing?
If you really want aerodynamics that are cheap, and work, and dont care about looks... get aluminum wing off the back of the hatch, and a plywood splitter under the front bumper. yes i know its ricey, but for $50 you cant beat the downforce.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I've got the suspension + the plans for training. I'll look into your aero suggestions. I hadn't considered that the stock wing could be creating more drag than any downforce advantage. As far as the splitter goes, I don't care what it'd look like on the track if it's safe and improves handling.
[QUOTE=rockcas]That will have absolutly no effect on the performance of your car. an air foil (or wing) must be shaped at least in the form as an airplane wing(such as the STI's) to have any down force effect. A wing that is simply put at an angle will only cuase more drag which will diminish the performance of your vehicle at high speeds. I say this coming from an aeronautics back ground and not because i am just speaking out of my arse.[/QUOTE]What I suspected, thanks. I was hoping someone with an aeronautics back ground would weigh in. What do you recommend for ground effects? Do you agree with [b][color=navy]TrizzyDizzy[/color][/b] about removing the stock wing?
| cfvwtuner | 01-10-2006 09:00 PM |
I say get it. It's the perfect place to put your lunch on when eating between heats.
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-10-2006 10:45 PM |
[QUOTE=cfvwtuner]I say get it. It's the perfect place to put your lunch on when eating between heats.[/QUOTE]
If you are 8ft tall maybe!
If you are 8ft tall maybe!
| ka mano | 01-10-2006 11:01 PM |
[QUOTE=TrizzyDizzy]If you are 8ft tall maybe![/QUOTE]:lol: ...for drying laundry, then!
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-10-2006 11:31 PM |
Hang the mistle toe under it... and you could even get Serena Williams and Shaq to kiss under it!
| ka mano | 01-11-2006 02:40 AM |
Found my ideal mod!
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Wait a minute...[indent][url="http://www.fast-autos.net/plymouth/superbird8.html"][u][color=darkgreen]You will win[/color][/u][/url][color=darkgreen]![/color]
[/indent]
[/indent]
| Calamity Jesus | 01-11-2006 02:55 AM |
[QUOTE=ka mano]What do you recommend for ground effects?[/QUOTE] You're better off building your own ground effects from Home Depot weatherstripping than with a fiberglass/urethane aftermarket kit.. if that's what you're asking. Ground effects, as seen in the Member's Car Gallery, are purely cosmetic. Some front lips actually do block a little under-car flow, but not enough to brag about.
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-11-2006 09:56 AM |
Yea, thats like what i said. I say get a plywood splitter under the front bumper. And have it angled downwards a few degrees. Have it go as far back as possible to, with out messing up steering and whatever.
| Homemade WRX | 01-11-2006 11:44 AM |
[QUOTE=TrizzyDizzy]Yea, thats like what i said. I say get a plywood splitter under the front bumper. And have it angled downwards a few degrees. Have it go as far back as possible to, with out messing up steering and whatever.[/QUOTE]
the cheap, ghetto and actually somewhat effective way...
the cheap, ghetto and actually somewhat effective way...
| MPME | 01-11-2006 04:28 PM |
The picture is too small to tell much, but to answer your question, yes it will do something. I doesn't appear to have any kind of proper wing elements, but the benefit from the wing will come from reduced lift and lessened resultant turbulence (drag.)
The *hump* rear profile of the wagon doesn't do a very good job of creating a smooth transition for the air passing over the car and leaving the rear window area behind. Becuase of the downward curvature, passing air tries to lift up on that profile, takes weight off the rear (although minor for the WRX Wagon application), and creates added turbulence.
This is less of a *wing* and more of a spoiler--one that is meant to spoil the air path Subaru intended it to follow, and to reduce lift and drag.
I'd bet a lot of $ that the people that make it have no idea what it does, and just thought it looked cool. If you are looking for added downforce of any measure, it's a waste. If you want a car that is more slippery through the air, although not that much, it will help.
The *hump* rear profile of the wagon doesn't do a very good job of creating a smooth transition for the air passing over the car and leaving the rear window area behind. Becuase of the downward curvature, passing air tries to lift up on that profile, takes weight off the rear (although minor for the WRX Wagon application), and creates added turbulence.
This is less of a *wing* and more of a spoiler--one that is meant to spoil the air path Subaru intended it to follow, and to reduce lift and drag.
I'd bet a lot of $ that the people that make it have no idea what it does, and just thought it looked cool. If you are looking for added downforce of any measure, it's a waste. If you want a car that is more slippery through the air, although not that much, it will help.
| turboICE | 01-11-2006 04:46 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME]This is less of a *wing* and more of a spoiler--one that is meant to spoil the air path Subaru intended it to follow, and to reduce lift and drag.
I'd bet a lot of $ that the people that make it have no idea what it does, and just thought it looked cool. If you are looking for added downforce of any measure, it's a waste. If you want a car that is more slippery through the air, although not that much, it will help.[/QUOTE]
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. I think you can be certain it was designed with an eye to fit of body line and appearance and not with any particular aerodynamics in mind (along with all the other body kits that show up only on show cars). Though I personally think the eye used was either blind or had depth perception issues. I think very much similar to the Euro wagon lifted spoiler.
Leave the stock spoiler - Subaru does know the aero of the car and you can be certain whatever level of effectiveness it has it is at least effective to that designed intent. You aren't going to get downforce effectively on the wagon body anyway. If you want to disrupt some of the turbulent lift that occurs as a result of the design then adapt the old OBS waist spoiler to it, unless you can find someone to send the OEM euro waist spoiler to you.
From Australian Dealer site as an option:
[img]http://subaru.com.au/accessories/images/2006/impreza/E7210FE200TG_GGGFK8D_thumb.jpg[/img]
Examples here: [url]http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67088[/url]
I'd bet a lot of $ that the people that make it have no idea what it does, and just thought it looked cool. If you are looking for added downforce of any measure, it's a waste. If you want a car that is more slippery through the air, although not that much, it will help.[/QUOTE]
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. I think you can be certain it was designed with an eye to fit of body line and appearance and not with any particular aerodynamics in mind (along with all the other body kits that show up only on show cars). Though I personally think the eye used was either blind or had depth perception issues. I think very much similar to the Euro wagon lifted spoiler.
Leave the stock spoiler - Subaru does know the aero of the car and you can be certain whatever level of effectiveness it has it is at least effective to that designed intent. You aren't going to get downforce effectively on the wagon body anyway. If you want to disrupt some of the turbulent lift that occurs as a result of the design then adapt the old OBS waist spoiler to it, unless you can find someone to send the OEM euro waist spoiler to you.
From Australian Dealer site as an option:
[img]http://subaru.com.au/accessories/images/2006/impreza/E7210FE200TG_GGGFK8D_thumb.jpg[/img]
Examples here: [url]http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=67088[/url]
| drees | 01-11-2006 06:21 PM |
The waist spoiler on the wagon is about as useful aerodynamically as a dead cat.
Spend your money on adapting STI underbody pieces to the car. Those actually have a chance of doing something on the wagon.
Spend your money on adapting STI underbody pieces to the car. Those actually have a chance of doing something on the wagon.
| turboICE | 01-11-2006 06:24 PM |
[QUOTE=drees]The waist spoiler on the wagon is about as useful aerodynamically as a dead cat.[/QUOTE]Support for the claim?
| racerjon1 | 01-11-2006 06:57 PM |
A "hatchback shape with a spoiler mounted at the bottom of the tailgate where it is mounted entirely in the turbulant wake in a position where it can do nothing for downforce production or lift reduction"-- Simon McBeath "[I]Competition Car Downforce[/I]"
That dead cat placed in the correct spot might actually be more useful.
Jon K
That dead cat placed in the correct spot might actually be more useful.
Jon K
| ka mano | 01-11-2006 07:43 PM |
Thanks all
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Interesting debate about drag, slip, and lift, both underbody and at the tail, and helpful directions for how to find out more.
| gc822 | 01-11-2006 07:45 PM |
I feel sorry for anyone that would buy such a thing, and for $600????? :huh:
what a waste of someones hard earned money
and no it won't do anything exept look silly
what a waste of someones hard earned money
and no it won't do anything exept look silly
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-12-2006 12:00 AM |
[QUOTE=Homemade WRX]the cheap, ghetto and actually somewhat effective way...[/QUOTE]
Whatever works, right? :lol:
Whatever works, right? :lol:
| leecea | 01-12-2006 10:59 AM |
[QUOTE=rockcas]That will have absolutly no effect on the performance of your car. an air foil (or wing) must be shaped at least in the form as an airplane wing(such as the STI's) to have any down force effect. A wing that is simply put at an angle will only cuase more drag which will diminish the performance of your vehicle at high speeds. I say this coming from an aeronautics back ground and not because i am just speaking out of my arse.[/QUOTE]
I think downforce is a function of a wing's cross-section and angle of attack. A perfectly flat plate can produce downforce when it is angled (though that's a very inefficient way of doing it) and a cambered wing can produce downforce at zero angle of attack. Usually the two effects are combined to make the most efficient wing for the amount of downforce required at the speeds the car will see.
I think downforce is a function of a wing's cross-section and angle of attack. A perfectly flat plate can produce downforce when it is angled (though that's a very inefficient way of doing it) and a cambered wing can produce downforce at zero angle of attack. Usually the two effects are combined to make the most efficient wing for the amount of downforce required at the speeds the car will see.
| ka mano | 01-12-2006 11:58 AM |
Thanks, [color=navy][b]leecea[/b][/color].
| AlexP | 01-12-2006 10:07 PM |
[QUOTE=rockcas]I say this coming from an aeronautics back ground and not because i am just speaking out of my arse.[/QUOTE]
What exactly IS your background in aeronautics? Are you are stewardess? You seem to know very little about fluid mechanics.
What exactly IS your background in aeronautics? Are you are stewardess? You seem to know very little about fluid mechanics.
| TrizzyDizzy | 01-13-2006 03:45 PM |
^^ :lol:
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