| Sean | 10-28-2001 12:47 AM |
I Need a support vehicle that can tow an Impreza and seat six that my wife can drive.
OK, I drive/race an MY98 Impreza 2.2 OBS and the wife drives an MY00 New Beetle 1.8T. Basically, the Impreza doesn't have enough room to comfortably transport all the gear required for a family day of competition...race tires, EZUP Tent, chairs, table, tools, cooler, etc. We need to find a support vehicle that can tow the Impreza on an open trailer. All of the above mentioned gear will be stored on the trailer or in the Impreza during transport to make room for people in the vehicle.
The kicker is that this will be the wife's kid hauler as well. Our friends just had twins so a requirement is that the support vehicle must be able to be easily driven by my petite wife and carry four adults and two children. I would prefer not to own a minivan or full sized van because I'd like to be able to take it offroad and would like to keep the price under $30k. Are there any used SUVs out there that would fit this category?
So, we need something that can tow at least 5500 pounds that isn't an annoying beast on the road. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my wife driving a huge Expedition or something, but I'm afraid that's the only camp we'll be able to follow. Can anyone of you think of anything used out there that's small, powerful and can seat six?
Thanks...
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The kicker is that this will be the wife's kid hauler as well. Our friends just had twins so a requirement is that the support vehicle must be able to be easily driven by my petite wife and carry four adults and two children. I would prefer not to own a minivan or full sized van because I'd like to be able to take it offroad and would like to keep the price under $30k. Are there any used SUVs out there that would fit this category?
So, we need something that can tow at least 5500 pounds that isn't an annoying beast on the road. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my wife driving a huge Expedition or something, but I'm afraid that's the only camp we'll be able to follow. Can anyone of you think of anything used out there that's small, powerful and can seat six?
Thanks...
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| silverbullit | 10-28-2001 01:14 AM |
get a durango with a the 5.9 liter v8. can really haul a ton of weight. and has third row seating.
| K-WRX | 10-28-2001 08:44 AM |
Re: Tow vehicle
Ditto on the Durango (my former car) - it's smaller than the big land yachts, but with the big V8 and trailer package, it can haul as much as those big boys.
| Porter | 10-28-2001 10:09 AM |
Here's a few more....
GMC Envoy .... small but tows enough
GMC Jimmy .... big enough, tows enough, but ugly
GMC Yukon (not XL) ..... pretty decent for your purposes, huge towing capacity with the V8
Toyota Land Cruiser.... good seating, good towing, but pricey
Toyota Sequoia ..... also good but HUGE... Suburban/Denali size
Chevy TrailBlazer.... very cool, seats 6, tows 6400 with the 4.10 rear end
there are many more.... stay away from Mitsubishi, they can't tow very well.
GMC Envoy .... small but tows enough
GMC Jimmy .... big enough, tows enough, but ugly
GMC Yukon (not XL) ..... pretty decent for your purposes, huge towing capacity with the V8
Toyota Land Cruiser.... good seating, good towing, but pricey
Toyota Sequoia ..... also good but HUGE... Suburban/Denali size
Chevy TrailBlazer.... very cool, seats 6, tows 6400 with the 4.10 rear end
there are many more.... stay away from Mitsubishi, they can't tow very well.
| montgog | 10-28-2001 11:44 AM |
Don't get a SUV to pull with. Get a crew cab truck with a diesel engine. You won't notice the trailer your pullin. Some actually get better gas mileage than a SUV loaded. My 2 cents worth.
| Ikonosin | 10-28-2001 02:53 PM |
[I]Toyota Sequoia ..... also good but HUGE... Suburban/Denali size[/I] , actually the Sequoia is more Tahoe/Yukon sized. I would stay away from Blazer/Jimmy, just because they are weak. My personal choice is for a Tahoe/Yukon. They have plenty of room, plenty of power, and lots of cool aftermarket goodies.
Scott:)
Scott:)
| ChrisDP | 10-28-2001 04:18 PM |
My friend Warren had been trailering his ITR with a Durango 5.9, but recently gave up on it. He burnt up a rear differential amonst the other slew of problems he had with it. They're huge and a bit unwieldy, but you might want to look into a used turbodiesel Suburban. My brother has a '94 that we've towed some very heavy things with. Gets great gas mileage, and you wouldn't even feel the car behind you. It's just a little slower than it normally is. :)
| Sean | 10-28-2001 04:23 PM |
Keep em' coming!
Thanks for the suggestions...but for the crew cab suggestion, uhm, how am I going to sit six in a crew cab? ;)
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| ryball | 10-28-2001 04:38 PM |
Ahh! Bench seats!!!
| dch | 10-28-2001 07:52 PM |
Stay away from the Durwango, although the munchkins may fit in the back seat if they're not too tall yet. For a civil 4-door that can haul try the F150 Supercrew, or if you don't mind Battlestar Galactica styling, one of the other makes. Minivans are tough to work with when it comes to pulling, the Astro van is about the only one I can think of that even rates at all. A full size van, Expedition, Subeerban, and so on are your other choices (as well as your standard crew cab pickup which will be slightly longer and less maneuverable than the supercrew thingies, but can be had with beefier motor and suspension). Definitely stay away from the smaller stuff like the Jimmy and Exploder though, they're too light duty.
-DougWhoTowsLotsOfStuffAndWantsAFreightliner!
-DougWhoTowsLotsOfStuffAndWantsAFreightliner!
| codemunky | 10-29-2001 12:12 PM |
If you can find one, Land Rover Defender 110. I knew someone who was driving one pulling a Defender 90 on a trailer.
| jaybird | 10-29-2001 01:45 PM |
110s are awesome! Would be perfect. Good luck trying to find one. You might end up spending allmost$30K for an older one that is straight and fixed up right. The older deisel Suburbans are incredable machines, but can be quite beastly to handle and maintain. A Durango would be good, but I know an equestrian that has had nothing but problems related to towing with hers (transmision, brakes, rear diff etc..). You should be able to get a decent Tahoe/Yukon for under $30k much better for towing, but still kinda large and doesen't really safely seat six unless you get an XL or Suburban. Anything smaller and I think you'd have trouble with everything you want to haul plus towing. How bout an Escalade with dubs? ***bling***bling*** ;)
I say save yourself (and your marriage) some greif and get her some type of wagon SUV thing (Forester, Outback, Axium) Split the difference between that and the OBS for people and gear hauling. Put the wives and kids in the suv/wagon with the clean food type gear. Fold down the seats and load up the OBS with your tires and other stuff and hit the road with your bud. All you need is some family cb radios and you'll be all set. I just think it'd look kinda silly trailering an OBS to the track. It's not like it's some kinda race prepped track only car?
I say save yourself (and your marriage) some greif and get her some type of wagon SUV thing (Forester, Outback, Axium) Split the difference between that and the OBS for people and gear hauling. Put the wives and kids in the suv/wagon with the clean food type gear. Fold down the seats and load up the OBS with your tires and other stuff and hit the road with your bud. All you need is some family cb radios and you'll be all set. I just think it'd look kinda silly trailering an OBS to the track. It's not like it's some kinda race prepped track only car?
| ColinL | 10-29-2001 01:48 PM |
What's the $ budget here Sean?
| travmn | 10-29-2001 02:30 PM |
Hummer? :)
the h2 one is coming out this spring/summer i think.
Escalade?
hmm, 12mpg ain't too hot
If it were between a subarban and durango. I'd go for the subarban. Not too wild about the durango, but's that my opinion. i grew up on subarban's so i'm a little bit biased.
the h2 one is coming out this spring/summer i think.
Escalade?
hmm, 12mpg ain't too hot
If it were between a subarban and durango. I'd go for the subarban. Not too wild about the durango, but's that my opinion. i grew up on subarban's so i'm a little bit biased.
| Patrick Olsen | 10-29-2001 02:36 PM |
[url]http://www.corner-carvers.com/forum/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001577.html[/url]
[url]http://www.corner-carvers.com/forum/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001600.html[/url]
A couple of good tow vehicle discussions from corner-carvers.com. Basically, from what I've read on cc.com and on the two open track emailing lists I'm on, if you're going to get a tow vehicle, you have to get a real tow vehicle. The mid-size SUVs (Explorers, Durangos, Envoys, Trailblazers, etc) in the past few years have added more power and claim high tow ratings, but they just can't hack the abuse in the long run. If we lived in the flat Midwest, maybe you'd be OK with one of the small SUVs, but here in the Northeast all the hills and valleys will wreak havoc on the drivetrain and brakes of an SUV that does much towing.
I guess it depends on (1) how much you're willing to spend, and (2) how much towing are you really going to do.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[url]http://www.corner-carvers.com/forum/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001600.html[/url]
A couple of good tow vehicle discussions from corner-carvers.com. Basically, from what I've read on cc.com and on the two open track emailing lists I'm on, if you're going to get a tow vehicle, you have to get a real tow vehicle. The mid-size SUVs (Explorers, Durangos, Envoys, Trailblazers, etc) in the past few years have added more power and claim high tow ratings, but they just can't hack the abuse in the long run. If we lived in the flat Midwest, maybe you'd be OK with one of the small SUVs, but here in the Northeast all the hills and valleys will wreak havoc on the drivetrain and brakes of an SUV that does much towing.
I guess it depends on (1) how much you're willing to spend, and (2) how much towing are you really going to do.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| Thug | 10-29-2001 03:12 PM |
Diesel, diesel, diesel, diesel. Did I mention diesel? :)
I wouldnt go with a Durango. Make sure you get something based on a full size truck, which the Durango is not. We tow the GTX with Ed's Explorer and it can get sketchy at times. You really do need a pickup when it comes down to it. You end up bringing so many spares to rallies because you [b]will[/b] break the part you [b]didnt[/b] bring. You really need the bed.
Did I mention I have an F-350 7.3L turbo diesel for sale? :D
Actually, that makes me think I should post it for sale in NESIC.....
I wouldnt go with a Durango. Make sure you get something based on a full size truck, which the Durango is not. We tow the GTX with Ed's Explorer and it can get sketchy at times. You really do need a pickup when it comes down to it. You end up bringing so many spares to rallies because you [b]will[/b] break the part you [b]didnt[/b] bring. You really need the bed.
Did I mention I have an F-350 7.3L turbo diesel for sale? :D
Actually, that makes me think I should post it for sale in NESIC.....
| Tim K. | 10-29-2001 05:30 PM |
I've seen more then a few folks try to haul with too little truck. It can get expensive quick. Any of the major manufacturers offer some very nice crew cab trucks with turbo-diesel motors. Most are offering killer financing and at invoice prices too.
Our family has two new F-250 Super Duties with the turbo-diesel and one Chevy 2500 Heavy Duty with the new turbo-diesel. We drove the Dodge and preferred the other brands. Final decision came down to price. The Ford was less expensive then the Chevy.
At the moment my wife's F-250 is the mileage king. We generally get 18 mpg with forays into the 20s. It is a big truck, but she drives very easily. Once you are used to the dimensions, its a cakewalk.
If you ever need to haul more poundages... you don't have to worry. You have a truck capable of it.
Get the bench seat front and rear and you have room for six. If the kids get too rambunctious - throw 'em in the bed. :D
Oh, and my wife also picked her truck up for $7.00 under dealer invoice.
Remember, when you are hauling you also need to consider the wheelbase of the trailer and the tow vehicle too.
If you get a good wench you can forego 4 wheel drive too. :D
Good luck!
Regards,
Tim K.
Our family has two new F-250 Super Duties with the turbo-diesel and one Chevy 2500 Heavy Duty with the new turbo-diesel. We drove the Dodge and preferred the other brands. Final decision came down to price. The Ford was less expensive then the Chevy.
At the moment my wife's F-250 is the mileage king. We generally get 18 mpg with forays into the 20s. It is a big truck, but she drives very easily. Once you are used to the dimensions, its a cakewalk.
If you ever need to haul more poundages... you don't have to worry. You have a truck capable of it.
Get the bench seat front and rear and you have room for six. If the kids get too rambunctious - throw 'em in the bed. :D
Oh, and my wife also picked her truck up for $7.00 under dealer invoice.
Remember, when you are hauling you also need to consider the wheelbase of the trailer and the tow vehicle too.
If you get a good wench you can forego 4 wheel drive too. :D
Good luck!
Regards,
Tim K.
| randy zimmer | 10-29-2001 09:48 PM |
tow rig/mommycar
I thought this was a Subaru site!
All you guys must have small balls 'cause you need such giant trucksters.
I tow my Sube with a '93 2.2 Legacy wagon I got on Ebay for peanuts. Turned 200,000 mi on the last trip back from Chatanooga and its going back there this Friday (from Buffalo, NY).
This is a car the wifey will love to drive and park. No ladder required to get in and out, reliable, 4wd, disk brakes all around.
It gets 23 mpg on the road (and when I get there, the rally'ns EZer than the tow there.
Keeps me from dozin off though.)
The trick is a tough/light trailer with the right tongue weight.
Sure the tires are under rated for a 2800# Impreza but it keeps up with traffic and passes most of it. Stay away from big potholes or you'll need to change the blown tire.
[url]http://www.randyzimmer.com/video/swift_rapids/on_the_trailer3.jpg[/url]
Someday I'm getting trailer brakes.
All you guys must have small balls 'cause you need such giant trucksters.
I tow my Sube with a '93 2.2 Legacy wagon I got on Ebay for peanuts. Turned 200,000 mi on the last trip back from Chatanooga and its going back there this Friday (from Buffalo, NY).
This is a car the wifey will love to drive and park. No ladder required to get in and out, reliable, 4wd, disk brakes all around.
It gets 23 mpg on the road (and when I get there, the rally'ns EZer than the tow there.
Keeps me from dozin off though.)
The trick is a tough/light trailer with the right tongue weight.
Sure the tires are under rated for a 2800# Impreza but it keeps up with traffic and passes most of it. Stay away from big potholes or you'll need to change the blown tire.
[url]http://www.randyzimmer.com/video/swift_rapids/on_the_trailer3.jpg[/url]
Someday I'm getting trailer brakes.
| dch | 10-29-2001 11:18 PM |
Hmmm... Randy, I seem to recall a story you were telling about your trip to/from Cherokee Trails where you drove the rally car for a while to give the Legacy a break. If you really have seen my balls then I guess I'll need to press stalking charges :D, but nonetheless my suggestion was based on a [i]real[/i] tow vehicle. Have you seen the mountain passes on the way to/from Wild West?! I pity the fool what flogs a Legacy pulling a rally car through there (especially without trailer brakes :eek:!).
-Doug "Yes, I Said Freightliner" Havir
-Doug "Yes, I Said Freightliner" Havir
| randy zimmer | 10-29-2001 11:31 PM |
tow'n
Doug,
Love that purple guy!
:eek:
Great to see your car's done and you're doin' well.
Any more events for you this year?
Love that purple guy!
:eek:
Great to see your car's done and you're doin' well.
Any more events for you this year?
| XT6Wagon | 10-30-2001 02:46 AM |
The big fords are sweet, but you likely could get by with just an explorer w the V8.
Honestly even a Crown Vic would be plenty for a tow vehicle if you run a light trailer. If you run a huge equpment trailer to haul the car you will need a larger truck to pull it. Just remeber that you need to have the whole rig set up RIGHT if you are going to tow even close to the tow vehicles wieght. I've seen plenty of people with alot of trouble when they towed 5-6K lbs behind a 4K bs 1st gen explorer and they got something wrong, like tonge wieght. Usualy the police have to file a report as the truck, or the trailer breaks, or they roll the whole thing some where.
Honestly even a Crown Vic would be plenty for a tow vehicle if you run a light trailer. If you run a huge equpment trailer to haul the car you will need a larger truck to pull it. Just remeber that you need to have the whole rig set up RIGHT if you are going to tow even close to the tow vehicles wieght. I've seen plenty of people with alot of trouble when they towed 5-6K lbs behind a 4K bs 1st gen explorer and they got something wrong, like tonge wieght. Usualy the police have to file a report as the truck, or the trailer breaks, or they roll the whole thing some where.
| Tim K. | 10-30-2001 09:04 AM |
We all know Randy is insane... :D :D This is proof! :lol:
| dch | 10-30-2001 02:12 PM |
I think I'm done for the year Randy. Actually my car is for sale, first $30,000 takes it home. I'm looking to move into an as yet undisclosed professionally built open class car (yes it's a Subaru) for next year. I think I'll end up renting something for Sno*Drift though, as the new car won't be ready until Cherokee Trails. Maybe if I put a hitch on the rally car, Sean could justify buying it as a tow vehicle...
-Doug
-Doug
| randy zimmer | 10-30-2001 05:42 PM |
rally tow car
Doug,
Then he could use the :cool: guy to describe his situation.
Then he could use the :cool: guy to describe his situation.
| randy zimmer | 11-05-2001 05:14 PM |
towing with a reasonable car
OK all you skeptics,
just got back from Tenn.
1700 miles
20mpg
no oil consumption
averaged 75 mph
never lower than 4th gear on any hill
all with a 93 2.2 wagon bought from EBay at $1800.
also, it turned 204,000 during the trip.
lost a dash bulb behind the tach.
The trailer didn't do as well, it lost a hub in Columbus on the way down (previous damage from a spin last year I guess).
It gave plenty of warning - I ignored it from home till it failed (250mi) wondering?"Hmmmm, I don't remember so much tire rumble" and then turning up the volume.
It was cool at the fuel up but the tire flew off and the inner bearing had worn a deep groove in the hub.
Without the loose bearing, it would have been a trouble free trip with an Impreza on the back - same as the other 10 trips this season.
Death to SUVs!
just got back from Tenn.
1700 miles
20mpg
no oil consumption
averaged 75 mph
never lower than 4th gear on any hill
all with a 93 2.2 wagon bought from EBay at $1800.
also, it turned 204,000 during the trip.
lost a dash bulb behind the tach.
The trailer didn't do as well, it lost a hub in Columbus on the way down (previous damage from a spin last year I guess).
It gave plenty of warning - I ignored it from home till it failed (250mi) wondering?"Hmmmm, I don't remember so much tire rumble" and then turning up the volume.
It was cool at the fuel up but the tire flew off and the inner bearing had worn a deep groove in the hub.
Without the loose bearing, it would have been a trouble free trip with an Impreza on the back - same as the other 10 trips this season.
Death to SUVs!
| Joe Longworth | 11-05-2001 06:18 PM |
I *dare* you to come out west and cross the rockies with that legacy in anything higher than 3rd. The grapevine (I5 north of Los Angeles) has many miles of 6% grade.
While a subaru would be ideal for towing of the rally/race car, it's not realistic if you're on the left coast.
While a subaru would be ideal for towing of the rally/race car, it's not realistic if you're on the left coast.
| randy zimmer | 11-05-2001 07:15 PM |
towing with a reasonable car
Joe, we don't know how far or how often Sean needs to travel or even where he lives.
I have been stuck on 1.5 lane rally roads in 2nd gear in the Legacy but on this trip I didn't have to go past 4th.
What do people do that live where there aren't Peterbuilts and Durangos? Sit home and pout, "I'd love to go racing but I can't tow with my Trablant." No, they find a way.
Sean will have to readjust his 5500# load down to the bare minimum, buy a Trailex aluminum trailer with his $30,000 budget or have a light trailer like mine built, but asking to find an SUV and a suitable car for a petite wife makes me think Subaru and it should you too.
What does an unbalanced, high CG, badly tired, ill handling car do to offset it's deficentcies? Add HP and weight!
If nothing changes (meaning, if a sack of money doesn't hit me in the head in a few month's time) I'll take you up on that dare as I plan on going the full season next year and I have to get there behind something - and right now, it's my wagon.
I went to the Sears Point Can-Am in '86 behind a 1600cc Rabbit so the Legacy is a much better choice!
I have been stuck on 1.5 lane rally roads in 2nd gear in the Legacy but on this trip I didn't have to go past 4th.
What do people do that live where there aren't Peterbuilts and Durangos? Sit home and pout, "I'd love to go racing but I can't tow with my Trablant." No, they find a way.
Sean will have to readjust his 5500# load down to the bare minimum, buy a Trailex aluminum trailer with his $30,000 budget or have a light trailer like mine built, but asking to find an SUV and a suitable car for a petite wife makes me think Subaru and it should you too.
What does an unbalanced, high CG, badly tired, ill handling car do to offset it's deficentcies? Add HP and weight!
If nothing changes (meaning, if a sack of money doesn't hit me in the head in a few month's time) I'll take you up on that dare as I plan on going the full season next year and I have to get there behind something - and right now, it's my wagon.
I went to the Sears Point Can-Am in '86 behind a 1600cc Rabbit so the Legacy is a much better choice!
| 63Alpine | 11-05-2001 08:59 PM |
I tow mine with a Land Rover Discovery II, seems to work for me. It is also my rather petite GF winter ride. I have noticed she gets a little insane behind the wheel though. :) It must be the gigantic grill and the Hella driving lights that can give you a back of the neck tan.
Kurt
Kurt
| BlueBox | 11-05-2001 10:58 PM |
Just find a Suburban of any year. No better tow car for most folks. If it can't handle it stock it's easy and cheap to mod.
| dch | 11-06-2001 12:08 AM |
All events using the Legacy, eh Randy? If you're singing the same tune this time next year, then I'll well and truly be impressed. But I still won't buy a Legacy to use as a tow vehicle... :D
-Doug
-Doug
| In2Deep | 11-06-2001 01:14 AM |
The expedition is the support vehicle of choice for me!
| Patrick Olsen | 11-06-2001 11:41 PM |
Let's go back to the subject line, shall we?
[i]I Need a support vehicle that can tow an Impreza and [b]seat six[/b] that my wife can drive.[/i]
Sorry, but I wouldn't want to put 6 people (even two adults and four children) in a Legacy for anything more than a quick jaunt. When I was but a wee lad, my family felt cramped in a full-sized Ford LTD Country Squire with two parents and four children. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the LTD had a bigger interior than a Legacy. :rolleyes:
Pat
[i]I Need a support vehicle that can tow an Impreza and [b]seat six[/b] that my wife can drive.[/i]
Sorry, but I wouldn't want to put 6 people (even two adults and four children) in a Legacy for anything more than a quick jaunt. When I was but a wee lad, my family felt cramped in a full-sized Ford LTD Country Squire with two parents and four children. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the LTD had a bigger interior than a Legacy. :rolleyes:
Pat
| randy zimmer | 11-07-2001 12:01 AM |
where's Sean?
Pat,
I've pretty much given up on Sean because he hasn't been involved in this for eons.
I just wanted to open up a discussion that everyone doesn't need a semi to get to the races.
If he had $30,000 to spend he had no reason to have to use one vehicle to do two distictly different duties.
If a new Beetle moved the kids before, why this new requirement for 6 passengers during the week?
Why doom his wife to drive a pulling truck to the 7-11?
If a van is the right choice, why say it isn't for him? Because it wouldn't be cool?
This was a loaded question that was flawed from the start.
I've pretty much given up on Sean because he hasn't been involved in this for eons.
I just wanted to open up a discussion that everyone doesn't need a semi to get to the races.
If he had $30,000 to spend he had no reason to have to use one vehicle to do two distictly different duties.
If a new Beetle moved the kids before, why this new requirement for 6 passengers during the week?
Why doom his wife to drive a pulling truck to the 7-11?
If a van is the right choice, why say it isn't for him? Because it wouldn't be cool?
This was a loaded question that was flawed from the start.
| Thug | 11-07-2001 10:52 AM |
actually, i think you may have hit it on the head there Randy. A V6 minivan might not be a bad compromise for Sean. Or maybe even a full size V8 van. Hmmmmm..............
BTW, I still think you're nuts for towing with the Legacy. Then again, what rally driver isnt nuts? :)
BTW, I still think you're nuts for towing with the Legacy. Then again, what rally driver isnt nuts? :)
| Sean | 11-07-2001 05:58 PM |
Ha.
OK, this discussion took on a mind of its own! ;) Here's the short version:
We do not have kids...yet. Friends of ours have twins. Kelly (my wife) wants to buy a minivan because car seats don't properly fit in the back of the Bug. I, on the other hand, do not want to buy a minivan. Since she got to pick the last new car (Bug 1.8T), I get to pick the next vehicle.
Qualifiers:
My Impreza will eventually be gutted with a roll cage. No more back seat. Therefore, the Impreza pulling a tire trailer will not work.
We need to buy a vehicle that two adults and four kids or two adults, two kids and lots of gear can fit in.
The vehicle we purchase must be able to tow an Impreza because Kelly will not agree to me driving the Impreza and her following me in the truck.
Two vehicles aren't an option due to a small driveway and high insurance rates.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] Fear the Trunkmonkey. There is no cone.
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We do not have kids...yet. Friends of ours have twins. Kelly (my wife) wants to buy a minivan because car seats don't properly fit in the back of the Bug. I, on the other hand, do not want to buy a minivan. Since she got to pick the last new car (Bug 1.8T), I get to pick the next vehicle.
Qualifiers:
My Impreza will eventually be gutted with a roll cage. No more back seat. Therefore, the Impreza pulling a tire trailer will not work.
We need to buy a vehicle that two adults and four kids or two adults, two kids and lots of gear can fit in.
The vehicle we purchase must be able to tow an Impreza because Kelly will not agree to me driving the Impreza and her following me in the truck.
Two vehicles aren't an option due to a small driveway and high insurance rates.
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] Fear the Trunkmonkey. There is no cone.
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL]
[URL=http://uberauk.epinions.com/user-hamors]Automotive Reviews by Sean[/URL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/faq.html]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Somebody set up us the WRX. All your rice are belong to us![/URL]
| bluesunlion | 11-07-2001 06:16 PM |
Why not a Mazda MPV? Yeah, its a minivan, but it can seat 6, has OK towing capacity (rwd) and if mazda is hurting like it has been, you can probably get a new one for low 20's.
Just my .02:)
Just my .02:)
| jaybird | 11-07-2001 06:19 PM |
Sorry dude, sounds to me like your stuck with a van. I'd go with a Chevy Astro or GMC Safari. They are more truck-like (in good ways), have excellent visability, come in AWD and have pretty decent towing capabilities. The Chrysler minivans are also available in AWD and are loaded with features, but aren't as strong at towing.
| randy zimmer | 11-07-2001 07:35 PM |
toecar
Still would like to know Sean...
where do you live,
where are you towing
and what type events?
How often would you need to tow?
All this matters because some are suggesting a semi to go to an autox 2 miles from home 3 times a year in Oklahoma.
I'm suggesting a Legacy when you may be running a National/International Pro series of 25 events and you live in Aspen.
where do you live,
where are you towing
and what type events?
How often would you need to tow?
All this matters because some are suggesting a semi to go to an autox 2 miles from home 3 times a year in Oklahoma.
I'm suggesting a Legacy when you may be running a National/International Pro series of 25 events and you live in Aspen.
| dch | 11-07-2001 08:31 PM |
I think I'm the only one who mentioned a semi (actually, all I said was "Freightliner"), and I wasn't suggesting that Sean should buy one. I was however suggesting that there are better choices than a Legacy for a tow vehicle. Saying that someone doesn't need anything more than a Legacy for towing is like saying you can roof your house with a good ol' hammer instead of an air nailer. It's absolutely true. You'll have a hell of a time convincing me the hammer's a [i]better[/i] way to go, however.
Perhaps Sean will find that a Legacy fits the bill for him as well, Randy. But I certainly would rather tow with something like the Rastro Van (even if it is ugly). I've gotten into (and out of, thankfully) enough situations while towing to really appreciate what a difference the right and wrong tow vehicles can make. The last thing you want is to have your trailer get out of hand and toss you, your baby and your wife & kids (uhm, your race car would be the baby :D) off into the ditch somewhere because you had to stop short and avoid someone or something. Don't forget to think about safety. (Gads, I sound like a parent!)
Well, off to the Freightliner store! :lol:
-Doug
Perhaps Sean will find that a Legacy fits the bill for him as well, Randy. But I certainly would rather tow with something like the Rastro Van (even if it is ugly). I've gotten into (and out of, thankfully) enough situations while towing to really appreciate what a difference the right and wrong tow vehicles can make. The last thing you want is to have your trailer get out of hand and toss you, your baby and your wife & kids (uhm, your race car would be the baby :D) off into the ditch somewhere because you had to stop short and avoid someone or something. Don't forget to think about safety. (Gads, I sound like a parent!)
Well, off to the Freightliner store! :lol:
-Doug
| Thug | 11-07-2001 09:27 PM |
I have been in a scary tow situation myself. And now because of that I will never tow with anything less than a p/u or van. Swaying uncontrollably across 2 lanes of traffic on the highway for 25 seconds is not cool.
| Streetman | 11-08-2001 04:30 AM |
Friend of mine put about 30,000 miles on an F250 crew cab (with the gasoline engine) towing a 26 foot enclosed trailer loaded with 4 motorcylces, a ton of tires and gear. Two years of racing just about every AMA race in the country. Oh yeah, he doesn't drive slow either. It took all that abuse, was his daily driver, and had great resale after that. Big enough you could fit 6 little people in it.
| CosmoTheCat | 11-08-2001 12:42 PM |
What does SOA rate the older Legacy's towing capacity at? It should be around 2000 lbs. Towing a 3000 lbs car on top of a trailer, with gear, is stupid. I'm not talking about stupid because you put strain on your engine, transmission, chassis, and tires. I'm talking stupid because your tow rig was not designed to control a load that weighs more than itself. Large American pickups often are designed with huge brakes so they can tow a load and still stop. Cummins makes a jake brake for Dodge pickups, and I'm sure somebody else makes one for the Ford and Chevy diesels. You are endangering everyone else on the road by overloading your car. It is not cool. If that trailer starts swaying, the Legacy doesn't have the mass to control it. :mad:
As far as tow vehicles go, I'd say get a used Durango and swap out the rear axle. It's probably got a Dana 44 rear end, or maybe a Chrysler 8 3/4 or whatever it is. Chuck that bad boy and get a Dana 60 or higher. That will take care of burning out the rear end. Sure, it'll cost a thousand or two to get it done right, but it will make for a much nicer life. I wouldn't recommend a light-duty 1/2 ton rear end to anybody who is going to do a lot of towing. Just get the heavier duty stuff and call it good. What exactly do you think the difference between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton truck is? Springs, brakes, and axles. Ford started this new trend of sheet metal being different too, because the 150 is too girly looking for real work trucks, and Chevy bit right into it and followed. I expect Dodge will too when the new HD model is released in what? '03?
If you don't want to swap the axle (which is something any decent 4x4/axle shop should be able to do fairly easily, lots of guys put Dana 60s on their Jeeps so they can run big tires and high gears) then look into a 4-door pickup with bench seats. Stay away from the Avalanche, Supercrew, and other 1/2 ton trucks, or do the axle swap on them too.
As far as tow vehicles go, I'd say get a used Durango and swap out the rear axle. It's probably got a Dana 44 rear end, or maybe a Chrysler 8 3/4 or whatever it is. Chuck that bad boy and get a Dana 60 or higher. That will take care of burning out the rear end. Sure, it'll cost a thousand or two to get it done right, but it will make for a much nicer life. I wouldn't recommend a light-duty 1/2 ton rear end to anybody who is going to do a lot of towing. Just get the heavier duty stuff and call it good. What exactly do you think the difference between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton truck is? Springs, brakes, and axles. Ford started this new trend of sheet metal being different too, because the 150 is too girly looking for real work trucks, and Chevy bit right into it and followed. I expect Dodge will too when the new HD model is released in what? '03?
If you don't want to swap the axle (which is something any decent 4x4/axle shop should be able to do fairly easily, lots of guys put Dana 60s on their Jeeps so they can run big tires and high gears) then look into a 4-door pickup with bench seats. Stay away from the Avalanche, Supercrew, and other 1/2 ton trucks, or do the axle swap on them too.
| randy zimmer | 11-08-2001 01:12 PM |
mass controls sway?
Regarding
"If that trailer starts swaying, the Legacy doesn't have the mass to control it. "
mass doesn't control sway, proper trailer geometry and tongueweight will help eliminate sway and a decent CG and tire contact patch/grip will help too.
I will wager the weight percentage of the F250 and the 26 foot trailer just above is similar to the legacy/Impreza.
I would also contend that the tires I use have more grip than some 10 ply truck tire on a pickup - skidpad numbers anyone?
Do I think just anyone should go cross country with a little tow car like I've done? NO. Could a guy go across town to a solo event a couple times a year if he had his stuff together and had the rig weights/geometry done right? You bet!
If people drive like they normally do towing anything with anything they are a menace, cell phones, absent-mindedness, lack of planning and lack of attention are all problems when the weight increases and when you start with a 2 or 3 ton tow car on **** tires with a crappy high CG you are kidding yourself that it inherently safer than what I do.
I have a friend with a Dually who killed a lady by rear ending her on the way to the run-offs and I have a friend with a Freightliner that loves it. I've driven a diesel dually that I was scared to death in. Everybody has a horror story and the vehicle in front isn't the whole reason for any of them.
"If that trailer starts swaying, the Legacy doesn't have the mass to control it. "
mass doesn't control sway, proper trailer geometry and tongueweight will help eliminate sway and a decent CG and tire contact patch/grip will help too.
I will wager the weight percentage of the F250 and the 26 foot trailer just above is similar to the legacy/Impreza.
I would also contend that the tires I use have more grip than some 10 ply truck tire on a pickup - skidpad numbers anyone?
Do I think just anyone should go cross country with a little tow car like I've done? NO. Could a guy go across town to a solo event a couple times a year if he had his stuff together and had the rig weights/geometry done right? You bet!
If people drive like they normally do towing anything with anything they are a menace, cell phones, absent-mindedness, lack of planning and lack of attention are all problems when the weight increases and when you start with a 2 or 3 ton tow car on **** tires with a crappy high CG you are kidding yourself that it inherently safer than what I do.
I have a friend with a Dually who killed a lady by rear ending her on the way to the run-offs and I have a friend with a Freightliner that loves it. I've driven a diesel dually that I was scared to death in. Everybody has a horror story and the vehicle in front isn't the whole reason for any of them.
| sol | 11-08-2001 02:09 PM |
Buick Roadmaster wagon - V-8, decent tow capacity, lots of interior room, and really cheap compared to SUV/van/pickup.
| Sean | 11-09-2001 04:28 PM |
Woo...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by randy zimmer [/i]
[B]Still would like to know Sean...
where do you live,
where are you towing
and what type events?
How often would you need to tow?
All this matters because some are suggesting a semi to go to an autox 2 miles from home 3 times a year in Oklahoma.
I'm suggesting a Legacy when you may be running a National/International Pro series of 25 events and you live in Aspen. [/B][/QUOTE]
OK, I live in Northeastern MA (Haverhill) and will be towing the car on a regular basis to Team O'Neil (big ass mountains, Franconia, NH), local autocrosses (NHIS, Fort Devens, wherever), local rallycrosses and distant rallycrosses (ME, VT, DC, CT, etc.). I will be doing the full SCCA NER autocross tour and then the car will be hauled to Topeka, KS next year for Nationals.
Come late 2002 or early 2003, my car will be gutted and and I'll be starting the Club Rally or Pro Rally tour. By then, we hope to have a rugrat or two.
I know two vehicles (a tow vehicle and a kid hauler) would be a better solution. Unfortunately, we have limited driveway space.
I know that I'm asking for overkill. Ever since my Ranger, I've wanted another truck that I could do light duty offroad with. With Kelly wanting a kid hauler, I see that as an excuse to get a truck. With the requirements of seating and towing capacity, I figured a heavy duty SUV or Supercrew of some sort would be the best bet.
Your Legacy is perfect for you, however does not suit our seating requirements. ;) We actually traded in Kelly's MY95 Legacy L Wagon for the MY00 Bug. :(
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] Fear the Trunkmonkey. There is no cone.
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[URL=http://uberauk.epinions.com/user-hamors]Automotive Reviews by Sean[/URL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/faq.html]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Somebody set up us the WRX. All your rice are belong to us![/URL]
[B]Still would like to know Sean...
where do you live,
where are you towing
and what type events?
How often would you need to tow?
All this matters because some are suggesting a semi to go to an autox 2 miles from home 3 times a year in Oklahoma.
I'm suggesting a Legacy when you may be running a National/International Pro series of 25 events and you live in Aspen. [/B][/QUOTE]
OK, I live in Northeastern MA (Haverhill) and will be towing the car on a regular basis to Team O'Neil (big ass mountains, Franconia, NH), local autocrosses (NHIS, Fort Devens, wherever), local rallycrosses and distant rallycrosses (ME, VT, DC, CT, etc.). I will be doing the full SCCA NER autocross tour and then the car will be hauled to Topeka, KS next year for Nationals.
Come late 2002 or early 2003, my car will be gutted and and I'll be starting the Club Rally or Pro Rally tour. By then, we hope to have a rugrat or two.
I know two vehicles (a tow vehicle and a kid hauler) would be a better solution. Unfortunately, we have limited driveway space.
I know that I'm asking for overkill. Ever since my Ranger, I've wanted another truck that I could do light duty offroad with. With Kelly wanting a kid hauler, I see that as an excuse to get a truck. With the requirements of seating and towing capacity, I figured a heavy duty SUV or Supercrew of some sort would be the best bet.
Your Legacy is perfect for you, however does not suit our seating requirements. ;) We actually traded in Kelly's MY95 Legacy L Wagon for the MY00 Bug. :(
[IMG]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/pics/lil.gif[/IMG] Fear the Trunkmonkey. There is no cone.
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/]http://www.trunkmonkey.com/[/URL] | [[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL]
[URL=http://uberauk.epinions.com/user-hamors]Automotive Reviews by Sean[/URL] | [URL=http://www.trunkmonkey.com/faq.html]What is a Trunkmonkey?[/URL]
[URL=http://www.trunkmonkeyracing.com/]Somebody set up us the WRX. All your rice are belong to us![/URL]
| randy zimmer | 11-09-2001 07:41 PM |
towing
Well, you've had no lack of suggestions and I don't think any combination has been left out.
It is now all up to you.
See you out there!
It is now all up to you.
See you out there!
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