| jakepeters | 07-05-2004 04:50 PM |
Less conspicuous scoop for 2004 WRX?
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I've got a 2004 WRX wagon.
I like it, but I would like a lower profile scoop.
I did the search, but found everyone is trying to make their <04 look like a 2004+.
1) I am looking for a drop in (bolt in) replacement - no creation/fabrication (I'm lazy).
2) Anyone seen anything? Something like the 2002-3 or maybe the Saab 92-x (At least I think the Saab scoop was smaller or reverse)
3) Are there any big performance hits associated with a lower scoop?
JP
I like it, but I would like a lower profile scoop.
I did the search, but found everyone is trying to make their <04 look like a 2004+.
1) I am looking for a drop in (bolt in) replacement - no creation/fabrication (I'm lazy).
2) Anyone seen anything? Something like the 2002-3 or maybe the Saab 92-x (At least I think the Saab scoop was smaller or reverse)
3) Are there any big performance hits associated with a lower scoop?
JP
| jagcars26 | 07-05-2004 05:25 PM |
This is a trick question right??:huh: ;)
| QwikRex | 07-05-2004 05:28 PM |
A lower scoop would probably inhibit IC cooling. I don't see why you'd want one.
| hitman912 | 07-05-2004 05:34 PM |
looks
| jakepeters | 07-05-2004 07:46 PM |
jagcars26,
No, not a trick question. I prefer the Q-ship (sleeper) approach to car looks.
QwikRex,
It would seem that a smaller scoop would have drawbacks, but the 2002-2003 WRX had a smaller, lower-profile scoop.
Do these older model years have worse performance? If so, what aspect(s)?
JP
No, not a trick question. I prefer the Q-ship (sleeper) approach to car looks.
QwikRex,
It would seem that a smaller scoop would have drawbacks, but the 2002-2003 WRX had a smaller, lower-profile scoop.
Do these older model years have worse performance? If so, what aspect(s)?
JP
| MB38 | 07-05-2004 09:01 PM |
I'll be the first to recommend leaving the scoop as is until you get a FMIC. Then just get an RS hood with no scoop at all.
| QwikRex | 07-05-2004 09:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jakepeters [/i]
[B]
QwikRex,
It would seem that a smaller scoop would have drawbacks, but the 2002-2003 WRX had a smaller, lower-profile scoop.
Do these older model years have worse performance? If so, what aspect(s)?
JP [/B][/QUOTE]
Apparently the 02-03 WRX scoops would become less effective at high speeds. It has been said that at 100+ air starts to flow over the scoop instead of into it. The 04 scoop seems to do a better job at directing more air onto the intercooler. For example, I was driving on the highway once and it had just rained. There were beads of water on top of my hood scoop, and they seemed unaffected by the airflow, meaning that not much air was getting over the scoop.
[B]
QwikRex,
It would seem that a smaller scoop would have drawbacks, but the 2002-2003 WRX had a smaller, lower-profile scoop.
Do these older model years have worse performance? If so, what aspect(s)?
JP [/B][/QUOTE]
Apparently the 02-03 WRX scoops would become less effective at high speeds. It has been said that at 100+ air starts to flow over the scoop instead of into it. The 04 scoop seems to do a better job at directing more air onto the intercooler. For example, I was driving on the highway once and it had just rained. There were beads of water on top of my hood scoop, and they seemed unaffected by the airflow, meaning that not much air was getting over the scoop.
| Quack | 07-05-2004 10:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MB38 [/i]
[B]I'll be the first to recommend leaving the scoop as is until you get a FMIC. Then just get an RS hood with no scoop at all. [/B][/QUOTE]
i'll second that...
[B]I'll be the first to recommend leaving the scoop as is until you get a FMIC. Then just get an RS hood with no scoop at all. [/B][/QUOTE]
i'll second that...
| Jasvboost | 07-05-2004 10:40 PM |
When I got my 04' I wanted a far less obvious hood scoop also. Driving the car I noticed it more, but as time passed I forgot about it. I know its there for a reason...for Mustang GT owners to envy. ;)
| hyp36rmax | 07-05-2004 10:50 PM |
why dont you just get the APS black FMIC (or any FMIC of cohoice and paint it engine temp black) and get yourself a cf or 2.5rs hood and call it done!
| NeoteriX | 07-05-2004 11:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by QwikRex[/i]
[B] Apparently the 02-03 WRX scoops would become less effective at high speeds. It has been said that at 100+ air starts to flow over the scoop instead of into it. The 04 scoop seems to do a better job at directing more air onto the intercooler. For example, I was driving on the highway once and it had just rained. There were beads of water on top of my hood scoop, and they seemed unaffected by the airflow, meaning that not much air was getting over the scoop. [/B][/QUOTE]
Where, pray tell, have you read this that the 02/03 scoops aren't that effective at speed?
I dunno if noting rain drops on top of a scoop is even a legitimate analysis of airflow dynamics, but in any case, water on the back part of my 02/03 scoop doesn't move either.
[B] Apparently the 02-03 WRX scoops would become less effective at high speeds. It has been said that at 100+ air starts to flow over the scoop instead of into it. The 04 scoop seems to do a better job at directing more air onto the intercooler. For example, I was driving on the highway once and it had just rained. There were beads of water on top of my hood scoop, and they seemed unaffected by the airflow, meaning that not much air was getting over the scoop. [/B][/QUOTE]
Where, pray tell, have you read this that the 02/03 scoops aren't that effective at speed?
I dunno if noting rain drops on top of a scoop is even a legitimate analysis of airflow dynamics, but in any case, water on the back part of my 02/03 scoop doesn't move either.
| SLIGHTLY | 07-06-2004 03:10 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Jasvboost [/i]
[B]When I got my 04' I wanted a far less obvious hood scoop also. Driving the car I noticed it more, but as time passed I forgot about it. I know its there for a reason...for Mustang GT owners to envy. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually they laugh....all in good fun.
[B]When I got my 04' I wanted a far less obvious hood scoop also. Driving the car I noticed it more, but as time passed I forgot about it. I know its there for a reason...for Mustang GT owners to envy. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually they laugh....all in good fun.
| gersh10 | 07-06-2004 04:04 PM |
I would love to get an 04 looking scoop for my 02 (not STi, too tall). I've done the search and was unable to find it. Do they make this? I like that swept forward look.
| jetwagon | 07-06-2004 04:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MB38[/i]
[B] I'll be the first to recommend leaving the scoop as is until you get a FMIC. Then just get an RS hood with no scoop at all. [/B][/QUOTE]
I second this. I may do this myself at 36,001 miles. And remove the rear wing (wagon) and replace WRX insignia on the back with 2.5TS.
[B] I'll be the first to recommend leaving the scoop as is until you get a FMIC. Then just get an RS hood with no scoop at all. [/B][/QUOTE]
I second this. I may do this myself at 36,001 miles. And remove the rear wing (wagon) and replace WRX insignia on the back with 2.5TS.
| exDSMr | 07-06-2004 05:23 PM |
jakepeters,
Many owners have found that with the 02-03 scoop and stock air splitter (or lack of) all the air was being pushed to the back of the intercooler. This along with the theory (unless somebody has tested it) that the air travels over the scoop at high speed leads me to believe the 04 scoop is much more effective at moving air through the IC. That scoop on your car is stock. All 04's have them. How much more low profile would you wanna get? :)
Many owners have found that with the 02-03 scoop and stock air splitter (or lack of) all the air was being pushed to the back of the intercooler. This along with the theory (unless somebody has tested it) that the air travels over the scoop at high speed leads me to believe the 04 scoop is much more effective at moving air through the IC. That scoop on your car is stock. All 04's have them. How much more low profile would you wanna get? :)
| jakepeters | 07-06-2004 07:18 PM |
exDSMr,
I understand that my scoop is stock. I understand that is is functional, unlike scoops and ducts on other cars.
I was, unusually for this website, looking for something a little less noticable, like the 2002-2003 scoop.
I am not ambitious enough to go with a FMIC, as it's fairly expensive and requires extensive mods to the bumper (AFAIK).
Also, the splitter concept is interesting, but unclear to me if it has a significant improvement in heat removal.
JP
I understand that my scoop is stock. I understand that is is functional, unlike scoops and ducts on other cars.
I was, unusually for this website, looking for something a little less noticable, like the 2002-2003 scoop.
I am not ambitious enough to go with a FMIC, as it's fairly expensive and requires extensive mods to the bumper (AFAIK).
Also, the splitter concept is interesting, but unclear to me if it has a significant improvement in heat removal.
JP
| Ramsdale | 07-06-2004 10:22 PM |
With a smaller scoop, you get a lower volume of air passing through it and onto the intercooler. (Gee, no-duh Ramsdale...)
However, the scoop isn't intended to provide a ram-air effect, just cooling. A smaller scoop will have an effect, but in the end, air is still going to pass through it. The Legacy's have a small scoop compared to the Impreza's, and even the new Legacy GT scoop is pretty small (just like the Saab's).
Sure, you'll lose a bit of air volume, and therefore some cooling effects and HP, but it doesn't sound like you'll mind. I don't think you'll lose a lot of power, but only a dyno run (with a cooling fan blowing) will tell exactly.
The key will be to make sure you get a nice seal between the scoop and the intercooler. You want air passing through the scoop, and you want to ensure it's directed onto the intercooler, and not venting out all over the engine bay.
The Legacy, Saab 92-X or older Impreza scoops may be an idea. Measure your scoop dimensions and visit a dealer to see how big the other scoops are. I would be surprised to find a perfect match, but you never know.
Ram-air is a different animal, and the concept of a boundry layer does come into play, along with scoop heights. You don't just want airflow, you want pressurized airflow. Chrysler did studies back in the late 60's and found the scoop opening needed to be at least 1.5 inches above the hood to minimize the boundy layer effect. Check out the scoop on a 1970 Challenger T/A - it's raised far above the hood itself.
Incidently, studies during the muscle-car period also showed that ram-air pressure increases as the square of the car speed increases. You need to be going about 100 mph to get a noticeable HP boost.
As a final word, however, keep in mind the Subaru engineers made the scoop that big for a reason. It was the optimal size. (Of course, Marketing probably had their say in it as well)
KR
However, the scoop isn't intended to provide a ram-air effect, just cooling. A smaller scoop will have an effect, but in the end, air is still going to pass through it. The Legacy's have a small scoop compared to the Impreza's, and even the new Legacy GT scoop is pretty small (just like the Saab's).
Sure, you'll lose a bit of air volume, and therefore some cooling effects and HP, but it doesn't sound like you'll mind. I don't think you'll lose a lot of power, but only a dyno run (with a cooling fan blowing) will tell exactly.
The key will be to make sure you get a nice seal between the scoop and the intercooler. You want air passing through the scoop, and you want to ensure it's directed onto the intercooler, and not venting out all over the engine bay.
The Legacy, Saab 92-X or older Impreza scoops may be an idea. Measure your scoop dimensions and visit a dealer to see how big the other scoops are. I would be surprised to find a perfect match, but you never know.
Ram-air is a different animal, and the concept of a boundry layer does come into play, along with scoop heights. You don't just want airflow, you want pressurized airflow. Chrysler did studies back in the late 60's and found the scoop opening needed to be at least 1.5 inches above the hood to minimize the boundy layer effect. Check out the scoop on a 1970 Challenger T/A - it's raised far above the hood itself.
Incidently, studies during the muscle-car period also showed that ram-air pressure increases as the square of the car speed increases. You need to be going about 100 mph to get a noticeable HP boost.
As a final word, however, keep in mind the Subaru engineers made the scoop that big for a reason. It was the optimal size. (Of course, Marketing probably had their say in it as well)
KR
| Kamikaze03084 | 07-07-2004 12:36 AM |
I'll trade ya my 03 scoop for your 04!
Please please please!!!
Please please please!!!
| Jasvboost | 07-07-2004 01:56 AM |
Look down the snake hole...
[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/345000-345999/345801_45_full.jpg[/IMG]
That's where you want the air flow to hit. The angle lets you see that the height of it serves it's purpose. ;)
[IMG]http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/345000-345999/345801_45_full.jpg[/IMG]
That's where you want the air flow to hit. The angle lets you see that the height of it serves it's purpose. ;)
| WanganRunner | 07-07-2004 07:02 AM |
I asked about this months ago and was told that the 02-03 scoops will not fit the 04. Honestly, I'd love to have a stock-size 02-03 scoop in Carbon Fiber for my white '04 (for aesthetic reasons), however I've sort of decided to leave the whole issue alone because of the possible performance issues.
| gersh10 | 07-07-2004 10:14 AM |
bigger for 02
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So is anyone making the 04 style scoop for the 02-03, becouse the Subie 04 scoop is too big for the hole in my hood.
| strohausii | 07-07-2004 12:33 PM |
I wish someone would actually do a differiential temperature comparison between the two (pre-I/C temp & post-I/C temp) between the 2 scoops.
The difference I would say is more asthetic (round ones match round headlights & trapezoidial scoops, matches headlights and taillights)
Honestly, doesn't matter to me cause thats the hole that all the heat escapes through when i'm stuck in traffic.:lol:
The difference I would say is more asthetic (round ones match round headlights & trapezoidial scoops, matches headlights and taillights)
Honestly, doesn't matter to me cause thats the hole that all the heat escapes through when i'm stuck in traffic.:lol:
| gersh10 | 07-07-2004 12:38 PM |
Honestly I just like the look and if it helps air through the IC that much better.
| Craven Moorhead | 07-07-2004 12:50 PM |
Go with a reverse mount.
| gersh10 | 07-07-2004 12:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Craven Moorhead [/i]
[B]Go with a reverse mount. [/B][/QUOTE]
:confused: Why?
[B]Go with a reverse mount. [/B][/QUOTE]
:confused: Why?
| MB38 | 07-07-2004 02:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by gersh10[/i]
[B] :confused: Why? [/B][/QUOTE]
Some people do this when they install a FMIC. Air can (theoretically) flow out of the reverse vent. Fresh air through the FMIC, hot air out the hood scoop.
[B] :confused: Why? [/B][/QUOTE]
Some people do this when they install a FMIC. Air can (theoretically) flow out of the reverse vent. Fresh air through the FMIC, hot air out the hood scoop.
| wrxxxrated | 07-07-2004 04:24 PM |
MRT makes a 04 STI scoop for the 02-03
| NeoteriX | 07-07-2004 06:37 PM |
I'm still not convinced there's any marked advantage of the new '04+ scoop and the 02/03 one. If you can source a smaller more subtle scoop, go for it.
| jakepeters | 07-07-2004 07:39 PM |
Kamikaze03084
I would consider a trade, but the scoops are different sizes (not just heights).
I am not sure about the width (side to side), but the 2004 scoop is deeper (front to back) and therefore has a much larger "hole" in the hood.
Ramsdale
Thanks for your ideas. I agree that there is no ram effect.
It would be great to see a side by side comparison. I would guess temperature comparison between a 2004 and a 2002 or 2003 would be a pretty fair setup (and much easier than trying to swap out a hood or scoop on the same car).
If I find anything, I'll definitely post it.
JP
I would consider a trade, but the scoops are different sizes (not just heights).
I am not sure about the width (side to side), but the 2004 scoop is deeper (front to back) and therefore has a much larger "hole" in the hood.
Ramsdale
Thanks for your ideas. I agree that there is no ram effect.
It would be great to see a side by side comparison. I would guess temperature comparison between a 2004 and a 2002 or 2003 would be a pretty fair setup (and much easier than trying to swap out a hood or scoop on the same car).
If I find anything, I'll definitely post it.
JP
| ViZ | 07-07-2004 09:51 PM |
get an rs hood
convert to a BLACK front mount
convert to a BLACK front mount
| gersh10 | 07-08-2004 11:04 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrxxxrated [/i]
[B]MRT makes a 04 STI scoop for the 02-03 [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks.
[B]MRT makes a 04 STI scoop for the 02-03 [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks.
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