| makofoto | 11-06-2005 03:56 AM |
Local Cross Class, WRX in STU, Opinion ?
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I won't be able to afford R tires next year ... so instead of running my WRX in Street Modified ... I was thinking of running in our local CSCC STU Class Championship. Here's my logic. What do you think? I've emailed my 20 prospective STU competitors to see if they'll let me play with them. btw. 1 SRT4, 2 Evo's, 8 Subies and 10 BMW's.
My WRX is basically a poor mans STI. Actually I've surely spent more on my WRX then I would have buying a new STI! :( So IT made me a Poor Man! :lol:
I don't want to, or can't spend the money to de-mod my SM WRX to turn it into a STX WRX.
I've got an added front LSD. Like a STI. Don't want to spend the money pulling it out.
I've got a STI Intercooler and Hood Scoop; like a STI.
I've got a SM legal single link sub frame connector. STI's essentially have that built-in.
I've got a RevLab steering rack. STI's and EVo's have faster then WRX steering.
I've got a smaller competition steering wheel. STI steering wheels are smaller then '03 WRX steering wheels; mine is smaller then the STI wheel.
I don't have any Cats; I would add a high flo Cat.
I would of course put back my rear seat.
My EcuTek Map runs higher then OEM boost. Which I of course need to get oem STI horsepower ... but I'll never have STI torque. STU STI's of course have much more then 300 hp ... my max.
STI's have their sophisticated smart Center Difs.
I weigh less then a STI ... but adding back my heavy WAGON back seat will take away some of that advantage.
Some people think the WRX 5 Spd is an advantage, others feel that the 6 Spd allows the STI to be in a more optimal gear. Nothing launches like an STU STI !
I added up the WINNING times from our ten '05 STU races and MY ten SM times. On average my SM times were 0.5 seconds faster then the winning STU times ... but my times are with R tires. I should be at least 1.5 seconds faster on our typical 50 to 60 second courses. Our STU drivers include Mark Coleman who won the San Diego National Tour event with his STI, Chris Teague who won the STU Atwater Tour event in his BMW and Rick Jung, who had the fastest RAW STU times at this years National Tour with his EVO.
I did a STU race in San Diego in August running my car on Azenis 215's and came in a distant 4th. I ran against STX cars in San Diego on my street tires and came in 2nd. I'm running practice events with my R2S Kooks, in order to save the last of my R tires for our last two SM Champ races. Our best STX drivers like Jeff Barco and Seb Rios beat me. Barco has always considered my car more of a STX car then a SM car. He's never beaten his STX WRX times using my car on street tires.
SO ... do YOU feel that the STU drivers should allow me to run with them in our local Championship. I won't be a threat against the top drivers ... I might be fighting for the last trophy position ... one that was created by my added participation. So far our STU drivers are saying O.K.
Again ... I don't want to go down to STX ... because I'd have to pull my RevLab steering rack, LSD, Intercooler, Hool Scoop, subframe connector, besides adding a Cat and getting a new EcuTek STX map. And I'd have to put back an oem steering wheel ... I damaged my air bag wires while pulling my oem wheel ... so another major expense.
[img]http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/4/43793/2687469/MakobyAlbert8_05-vi.jpg[/img]
Rick Jung
[img]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2820624/RickSide-vi.jpg[/img]
Mark Coleman
[img]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2820624/Mark-vi.jpg[/img]
My WRX is basically a poor mans STI. Actually I've surely spent more on my WRX then I would have buying a new STI! :( So IT made me a Poor Man! :lol:
I don't want to, or can't spend the money to de-mod my SM WRX to turn it into a STX WRX.
I've got an added front LSD. Like a STI. Don't want to spend the money pulling it out.
I've got a STI Intercooler and Hood Scoop; like a STI.
I've got a SM legal single link sub frame connector. STI's essentially have that built-in.
I've got a RevLab steering rack. STI's and EVo's have faster then WRX steering.
I've got a smaller competition steering wheel. STI steering wheels are smaller then '03 WRX steering wheels; mine is smaller then the STI wheel.
I don't have any Cats; I would add a high flo Cat.
I would of course put back my rear seat.
My EcuTek Map runs higher then OEM boost. Which I of course need to get oem STI horsepower ... but I'll never have STI torque. STU STI's of course have much more then 300 hp ... my max.
STI's have their sophisticated smart Center Difs.
I weigh less then a STI ... but adding back my heavy WAGON back seat will take away some of that advantage.
Some people think the WRX 5 Spd is an advantage, others feel that the 6 Spd allows the STI to be in a more optimal gear. Nothing launches like an STU STI !
I added up the WINNING times from our ten '05 STU races and MY ten SM times. On average my SM times were 0.5 seconds faster then the winning STU times ... but my times are with R tires. I should be at least 1.5 seconds faster on our typical 50 to 60 second courses. Our STU drivers include Mark Coleman who won the San Diego National Tour event with his STI, Chris Teague who won the STU Atwater Tour event in his BMW and Rick Jung, who had the fastest RAW STU times at this years National Tour with his EVO.
I did a STU race in San Diego in August running my car on Azenis 215's and came in a distant 4th. I ran against STX cars in San Diego on my street tires and came in 2nd. I'm running practice events with my R2S Kooks, in order to save the last of my R tires for our last two SM Champ races. Our best STX drivers like Jeff Barco and Seb Rios beat me. Barco has always considered my car more of a STX car then a SM car. He's never beaten his STX WRX times using my car on street tires.
SO ... do YOU feel that the STU drivers should allow me to run with them in our local Championship. I won't be a threat against the top drivers ... I might be fighting for the last trophy position ... one that was created by my added participation. So far our STU drivers are saying O.K.
Again ... I don't want to go down to STX ... because I'd have to pull my RevLab steering rack, LSD, Intercooler, Hool Scoop, subframe connector, besides adding a Cat and getting a new EcuTek STX map. And I'd have to put back an oem steering wheel ... I damaged my air bag wires while pulling my oem wheel ... so another major expense.
[img]http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/4/43793/2687469/MakobyAlbert8_05-vi.jpg[/img]
Rick Jung
[img]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2820624/RickSide-vi.jpg[/img]
Mark Coleman
[img]http://images14.fotki.com/v244/photos/4/43793/2820624/Mark-vi.jpg[/img]
| KC | 11-06-2005 09:09 AM |
Mako...
Honestly, you know better. Sure the local guys there [I]this year[/I] might be cool with it. You're all friends. What about next year when a n00b comes in and starts competing, trying to get a grasp of the rules.. or those in STX that say 'How come'? What abouot those guys in SD Region that are not cool with it.. or is EVERYONE that competes there (Last I saw it was like 20+ competitors in STU) cool with it?
Honestly... the rules are the rules. There's nothing in the rules that allows a WRX to UD/BD to an STi. There's nothing in the rules stating you can install the components you currently have on the car for STU none the less STX.
I'm asking you... do the right thing. I'm getting the feeling that SD Region don't really care for the SCCA rules. There are other clubs out there that should meet your goals that don't follow SCCA rules.
If I were there, I'd say sure, go for it... but you don't run for season points since you're not meeting the rules of the class.
Or.. propose to your region to start a new class 'Street-Mako'. Every region has the right to forumlate new classes.
--kC
Honestly, you know better. Sure the local guys there [I]this year[/I] might be cool with it. You're all friends. What about next year when a n00b comes in and starts competing, trying to get a grasp of the rules.. or those in STX that say 'How come'? What abouot those guys in SD Region that are not cool with it.. or is EVERYONE that competes there (Last I saw it was like 20+ competitors in STU) cool with it?
Honestly... the rules are the rules. There's nothing in the rules that allows a WRX to UD/BD to an STi. There's nothing in the rules stating you can install the components you currently have on the car for STU none the less STX.
I'm asking you... do the right thing. I'm getting the feeling that SD Region don't really care for the SCCA rules. There are other clubs out there that should meet your goals that don't follow SCCA rules.
If I were there, I'd say sure, go for it... but you don't run for season points since you're not meeting the rules of the class.
Or.. propose to your region to start a new class 'Street-Mako'. Every region has the right to forumlate new classes.
--kC
| Butt Dyno | 11-06-2005 09:15 AM |
If you care enough about being competitive in a certain class, you care enough to prep your car to the rules of that class :)
| neuspeed | 11-06-2005 11:25 AM |
I think we should create a STi-WRX class. For the rich men that make a WRX into a STi and turn poor :lol: -serious
| AUTOwrXER | 11-06-2005 11:35 AM |
Find a co-driver to share the expense of R tires.
| tuskenraider | 11-06-2005 11:47 AM |
I'd look at all your mods and then shake my head you couldn't get tires to compete on when, besides the driver, tires are the number one item to be concerned about.
| jcroy66 | 11-06-2005 11:54 AM |
Well, I agree with KC's sentiments. In my opinion, if there is even one person who has a problem with it, then don't do it.
Now, if it were me in STU, trying to evaluate if I had a problem with it? I'd probably ask you to add in a ST-legal cat and run an ST-legal computer (i.e. stock WRX boost levels, not STi boost levels), and not worry about the rest. But that's just me. I have no idea what your STU competitors might say or feel.
Now, if it were me in STU, trying to evaluate if I had a problem with it? I'd probably ask you to add in a ST-legal cat and run an ST-legal computer (i.e. stock WRX boost levels, not STi boost levels), and not worry about the rest. But that's just me. I have no idea what your STU competitors might say or feel.
| makofoto | 11-06-2005 01:39 PM |
Thanks for the honest feedback ... I've been surprised that so far all but one of the STU competitors has been O.K. with it. The one that does have some concern about it is a fellow Team Blew team mate that is just starting to get back to speed. You're right that it's the newer "idealistic" driver that might have the most trouble with my proposition, and I don't blame them. At the local level one knows that there is a certain give and take among the drivers that aren't going to do National events with their cars. This is usually tolerated as long as they aren't a threat to the top positions. I guess I'm putting myself in that position. Any National events that I might do will be as a tire warmer co-driver.
People fortunes and responsibilities change. I've had to give my ex more then $14,000 above and beyond what she's suppose to get for alimony and child support so far this year. Same last year. I thought that once I was divorced I could finally control my own finances and destiny. But once you have a child that you really love you are committed to providing them with a decent home, education (over $12K/year) and life. If my ex was doing what she's suppose to do I would have plenty of R tires and a new STI.
I guess my ultimate out would be to simply not buy our local 2006 points card ... that way I could run and not take points away from anyone. I still also have a possible co-driving gig. A couple of others didn't happen. Don't blame them.
I was thinking of going to ESP, which would require me to remove my big brakes. STI IC, hood scoop and steering rack, but keep the boost (right?) and LSD ... and get RA1's ... because this year our ESP class was weak and I could actually seemingly win ... but because of the soft ESP Pax ... a lot of people are jumping to ESP and RA1's isn't going to cut it.
People fortunes and responsibilities change. I've had to give my ex more then $14,000 above and beyond what she's suppose to get for alimony and child support so far this year. Same last year. I thought that once I was divorced I could finally control my own finances and destiny. But once you have a child that you really love you are committed to providing them with a decent home, education (over $12K/year) and life. If my ex was doing what she's suppose to do I would have plenty of R tires and a new STI.
I guess my ultimate out would be to simply not buy our local 2006 points card ... that way I could run and not take points away from anyone. I still also have a possible co-driving gig. A couple of others didn't happen. Don't blame them.
I was thinking of going to ESP, which would require me to remove my big brakes. STI IC, hood scoop and steering rack, but keep the boost (right?) and LSD ... and get RA1's ... because this year our ESP class was weak and I could actually seemingly win ... but because of the soft ESP Pax ... a lot of people are jumping to ESP and RA1's isn't going to cut it.
| KC | 11-06-2005 02:24 PM |
[QUOTE]People fortunes and responsibilities change. I've had to give my ex more then $14,000 above and beyond what she's suppose to get for alimony and child support so far this year. Same last year. I thought that once I was divorced I could finally control my own finances and destiny. But once you have a child that you really love you are committed to providing them with a decent home, education (over $12K/year) and life. If my ex was doing what she's suppose to do I would have plenty of R tires and a new STI.
[/QUOTE] If this is the problem of you not buying R-compounds... you have greater issues than trying to make a car fit a national class locally with mods that shouldn't be in there.
Mako.. I think my point was missed.... SD Region follows rules. THose rules specify what you can do to your car and to a limited extent, what you cannot in certain classes. How many people do you get to an event? 200+? How many of those 200+ would you think would respond if they were told...
[QUOTE] Hey everyone... we just threw the rule book out the window when it comes to classing cars! Run where you want! If there's one person that doesn't like the class you going to run in? Tell them they're wrong because they [i]obviously[/i] don't know what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]
I think I'm going to move there and run A C6Z06 in HS. As long as no one complains, right? Or if someone does, we'll apply a little of that Peer pressure to sqash them.
Mako...
[b][size=9]THE RULES EXIST NOT ONLY FOR YOURSELF BUT EVERYONE IN THE CLUB SO YOU ALL CAN HAVE A FUN TIME![/size][/b]
Once someone doesn't think the rules shouldn't apply, your CLUB is going to have problems with 200+ people that ALSO think the rule book doesn't apply. It's a long slippery slope of everyone wanting their own personal exceptions. I think it great that most everyone there doesn't have a problem with it... but as you said... someone does... and you know what... they have a greater say in what you can and cannot do./ It's not Mob rule. It's a club...with rules. You don't follow those rules... start your own Auto-x Club and hold your own events.
Is the WRX legal for STU? Yes. As long as it follows those rules. You can try and justify it and complain all you want you think you should run in the class.. but looking from the outside in, it doesn't look like SD region has a good grasp on their membership becuase there are people thinking that mob (STU friends) overrules the SCCA rules.
--kC
[/QUOTE] If this is the problem of you not buying R-compounds... you have greater issues than trying to make a car fit a national class locally with mods that shouldn't be in there.
Mako.. I think my point was missed.... SD Region follows rules. THose rules specify what you can do to your car and to a limited extent, what you cannot in certain classes. How many people do you get to an event? 200+? How many of those 200+ would you think would respond if they were told...
[QUOTE] Hey everyone... we just threw the rule book out the window when it comes to classing cars! Run where you want! If there's one person that doesn't like the class you going to run in? Tell them they're wrong because they [i]obviously[/i] don't know what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]
I think I'm going to move there and run A C6Z06 in HS. As long as no one complains, right? Or if someone does, we'll apply a little of that Peer pressure to sqash them.
Mako...
[b][size=9]THE RULES EXIST NOT ONLY FOR YOURSELF BUT EVERYONE IN THE CLUB SO YOU ALL CAN HAVE A FUN TIME![/size][/b]
Once someone doesn't think the rules shouldn't apply, your CLUB is going to have problems with 200+ people that ALSO think the rule book doesn't apply. It's a long slippery slope of everyone wanting their own personal exceptions. I think it great that most everyone there doesn't have a problem with it... but as you said... someone does... and you know what... they have a greater say in what you can and cannot do./ It's not Mob rule. It's a club...with rules. You don't follow those rules... start your own Auto-x Club and hold your own events.
Is the WRX legal for STU? Yes. As long as it follows those rules. You can try and justify it and complain all you want you think you should run in the class.. but looking from the outside in, it doesn't look like SD region has a good grasp on their membership becuase there are people thinking that mob (STU friends) overrules the SCCA rules.
--kC
| z3coupe | 11-06-2005 02:41 PM |
[QUOTE]I've been surprised that so far all but one of the STU competitors has been O.K. with it. The one that does have some concern about it is a fellow Team Blew team mate that is just starting to get back to speed.[/QUOTE]Mako, why not come out and say that I AM the one who is not cool with this, that I am the holdout for staying withing the rules????? And why is that?
[QUOTE]People fortunes and responsibilities change.[/QUOTE]
I chose to remain single, and don't use any excuses for that. Seen too many divorces that were messy (men almost always loose!!!!), and already lost EVERYTHING I OWNED once back in 1997 when my company was relocationg me and the entire 40' moving truck was stolen over night. What I have left now is what my parents left me when that passed away. Don't want to loose that. You made your choice, I made mine.
[QUOTE]I guess my ultimate out would be to simply not buy our local 2006 points card ... that way I could run and not take points away from anyone.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]I was thinking of going to ESP, which would require me to remove my big brakes. STI IC, hood scoop and steering rack, but keep the boost (right?) and LSD ... and get RA1's ... because this year our ESP class was weak and I could actually seemingly win ... but because of the soft ESP Pax ... a lot of people are jumping to ESP and RA1's isn't going to cut it.[/QUOTE]
You say you might not buy a points card to just run for fun, that is ok, but still not right. But you then say you don't want to run in ESP because you would not be competitive without better R tires and would still have to remove some of your mods. Why are you so worried about running in ESP vs running in STU? Is it because STU is filled more with your team mates who might look the other way, while ESP is not, and thus would protest you every event?[QUOTE]Honestly... the rules are the rules. There's nothing in the rules that allows a WRX to UD/BD to an STi. There's nothing in the rules stating you can install the components you currently have on the car for STU none the less STX.[/QUOTE]Could I demod an STi a bit, and then call it a WRX and run it in STX? Doubt that. But gee, they are both Impresza's, right?[QUOTE]I don't want to go down to STX ... because I'd have to pull my RevLab steering rack, LSD, Intercooler, Hool Scoop, subframe connector, besides adding a Cat and getting a new EcuTek STX map. And I'd have to put back an oem steering wheel ... I damaged my air bag wires while pulling my oem wheel ... so another major expense.[/QUOTE]So you'd rather run illegaly in the wrong class than do what you need to so as to be legal in the right class? I knew my limits, and last year ran in the stock SK1 class with my 04 STi. I got this 05 STi and built it to the rules for the class I wanted to run it in (STU). I spent a lot of time, effort, and money to do that. You think that is fair? And just WHY don't you want to go down into STX where you should be?????[QUOTE]Barco has always considered my car more of a STX car then a SM car.[/QUOTE]Is Barco the STAC or SEB? Nope, don't think so.
Mako, we have ALL seen your posts since you suddenly popped onto the Solo scene not too long ago. You asked a zillion mod questions, and hopefully had done your homework from all the advice you were given. But now you suddenly are acting like you don't know any better. When you sent out that first E-Mail the other day, to say that I was shocked is an understatement! That you'd even consider this an option, coming from you always being the "knowledge base of racing", I could not believe what I was reading.
I was trying to stay quiet about this, and not make any waves. But this time you have gone overboard. My answer is NO. I am running for points, and no matter what place I end up in, I will be there because that is the class I chose to run in, and built my car for. As my Father always beat into my head, "you made your bed, now lay in it".
And as for [QUOTE]You were impressive Rocky ... hope to see you in San Diego in a couple of weeks. We're going to have to watch out that you don't get lured away by another team![/QUOTE]Let me state for public record that I HAVE. Next year I will be back to my old team NO$.
[QUOTE]People fortunes and responsibilities change.[/QUOTE]
I chose to remain single, and don't use any excuses for that. Seen too many divorces that were messy (men almost always loose!!!!), and already lost EVERYTHING I OWNED once back in 1997 when my company was relocationg me and the entire 40' moving truck was stolen over night. What I have left now is what my parents left me when that passed away. Don't want to loose that. You made your choice, I made mine.
[QUOTE]I guess my ultimate out would be to simply not buy our local 2006 points card ... that way I could run and not take points away from anyone.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]I was thinking of going to ESP, which would require me to remove my big brakes. STI IC, hood scoop and steering rack, but keep the boost (right?) and LSD ... and get RA1's ... because this year our ESP class was weak and I could actually seemingly win ... but because of the soft ESP Pax ... a lot of people are jumping to ESP and RA1's isn't going to cut it.[/QUOTE]
You say you might not buy a points card to just run for fun, that is ok, but still not right. But you then say you don't want to run in ESP because you would not be competitive without better R tires and would still have to remove some of your mods. Why are you so worried about running in ESP vs running in STU? Is it because STU is filled more with your team mates who might look the other way, while ESP is not, and thus would protest you every event?[QUOTE]Honestly... the rules are the rules. There's nothing in the rules that allows a WRX to UD/BD to an STi. There's nothing in the rules stating you can install the components you currently have on the car for STU none the less STX.[/QUOTE]Could I demod an STi a bit, and then call it a WRX and run it in STX? Doubt that. But gee, they are both Impresza's, right?[QUOTE]I don't want to go down to STX ... because I'd have to pull my RevLab steering rack, LSD, Intercooler, Hool Scoop, subframe connector, besides adding a Cat and getting a new EcuTek STX map. And I'd have to put back an oem steering wheel ... I damaged my air bag wires while pulling my oem wheel ... so another major expense.[/QUOTE]So you'd rather run illegaly in the wrong class than do what you need to so as to be legal in the right class? I knew my limits, and last year ran in the stock SK1 class with my 04 STi. I got this 05 STi and built it to the rules for the class I wanted to run it in (STU). I spent a lot of time, effort, and money to do that. You think that is fair? And just WHY don't you want to go down into STX where you should be?????[QUOTE]Barco has always considered my car more of a STX car then a SM car.[/QUOTE]Is Barco the STAC or SEB? Nope, don't think so.
Mako, we have ALL seen your posts since you suddenly popped onto the Solo scene not too long ago. You asked a zillion mod questions, and hopefully had done your homework from all the advice you were given. But now you suddenly are acting like you don't know any better. When you sent out that first E-Mail the other day, to say that I was shocked is an understatement! That you'd even consider this an option, coming from you always being the "knowledge base of racing", I could not believe what I was reading.
I was trying to stay quiet about this, and not make any waves. But this time you have gone overboard. My answer is NO. I am running for points, and no matter what place I end up in, I will be there because that is the class I chose to run in, and built my car for. As my Father always beat into my head, "you made your bed, now lay in it".
And as for [QUOTE]You were impressive Rocky ... hope to see you in San Diego in a couple of weeks. We're going to have to watch out that you don't get lured away by another team![/QUOTE]Let me state for public record that I HAVE. Next year I will be back to my old team NO$.
| makofoto | 11-06-2005 03:28 PM |
Cool ... no need to get all excited ... I was just asking people's opinion ... and obviously EVERYONE had to agree to make it work. Looks like we might pass No$'s in the Team Championship at the next event. You might be jumping ship at the wrong time. :p
| trhoppe | 11-06-2005 05:38 PM |
Why don't you run in SM where your car belongs? If you don't care about points, you shouldn't care about the fact that you are running on street tires.
I think its ridiculous to to what you are proposing and I for one wouldn't agree to it.
-Tom
I think its ridiculous to to what you are proposing and I for one wouldn't agree to it.
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 11-06-2005 05:54 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Why don't you run in SM where your car belongs? If you don't care about points, you shouldn't care about the fact that you are running on street tires.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Either fall where you can afford, or go all out for the class you want. It's what the rest of the world goes by. :)
-Biggly
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Either fall where you can afford, or go all out for the class you want. It's what the rest of the world goes by. :)
-Biggly
| KC | 11-06-2005 05:59 PM |
But he wants to run with his buddies. The only thing standing between him being able to is running legally within the class. Can he? yep.. but he's got to take stuff off the car.
Class yourself where your car falls.. it happens every event when someone new to the sport tries it out with a car that ends up in prepared or mod...
"But I'm gonna get killed in that class."
"If you're running for fun, it doesn't matter, does it?" ;)
--kC
Class yourself where your car falls.. it happens every event when someone new to the sport tries it out with a car that ends up in prepared or mod...
"But I'm gonna get killed in that class."
"If you're running for fun, it doesn't matter, does it?" ;)
--kC
| AUTOwrXER | 11-06-2005 06:29 PM |
Mako - why not talk to Z3coupe or one of the other local STU drivers about co-driving with them next season? If I were you I would talk to Richard Jung about driving that car. It's pretty sweet (am I allowed to say that about an Evo?).
| z3coupe | 11-07-2005 01:27 AM |
If any of you have read Mako's posts, you will have seen he made his car barely streetable. He mostly drives his Previa mini-van on a daily basis. He has asked a zillion questions about how to make his car less streetable, and more an SM car (even down to the nuts and bolts!!!) - and no one twisted his arm, it was deliberate. Same as I deliberately built my car for STU, and still be enjoyable during every day street driving (as it is my only car as well). He is not a n00b at racing, but from this post, you'd sure think he was taken over by some alien! I have even taken some brow beating from him and the guys from TB because I did not go with Barco's magic coilovers or the Zyzyx specials. I purposely built my car for [B]ME[/B], and the [B]class[/B] I chose to run in.[QUOTE]"But I'm gonna get killed in that class."
"If you're running for fun, it doesn't matter, does it?" [/QUOTE]Like KC says, if for fun, run in your LEGAL class, or de-mod your car to the correct level. But DON'T try to weasel in the wrong class with the wrong car, try to act like a n00b that don't know any better, and then try to run for legitimate points standings!!!!! [B]NO!!![/B]
But out of the kindness of my heart because you are not a bad guy, and have helped me on occasion, then you could run in my car once in awhile. But BE AWARE! IT IS MY ONLY CAR - you break it, you fix it. No negotiation on that rule!!!!!!!!! But then you might not want to, as you keep dissing me saying that the Yoks are poor tires, and my KW coilovers are not the shizt.
"If you're running for fun, it doesn't matter, does it?" [/QUOTE]Like KC says, if for fun, run in your LEGAL class, or de-mod your car to the correct level. But DON'T try to weasel in the wrong class with the wrong car, try to act like a n00b that don't know any better, and then try to run for legitimate points standings!!!!! [B]NO!!![/B]
But out of the kindness of my heart because you are not a bad guy, and have helped me on occasion, then you could run in my car once in awhile. But BE AWARE! IT IS MY ONLY CAR - you break it, you fix it. No negotiation on that rule!!!!!!!!! But then you might not want to, as you keep dissing me saying that the Yoks are poor tires, and my KW coilovers are not the shizt.
| makofoto | 11-07-2005 01:43 AM |
Thanks Rocky ... and I DID add to our Team Blew Message Board that your Advens WERE the best ... in those recent tests. You have shown at the last event that your KW's must be pretty decent ... you did put on a pretty amazing drift and recovery show! 4th in STU in your first event in a while, since your operation, with barely dialed in new struts was pretty decent. Beat Chris Teague, Atwater winner. Maybe it was just those tires! Which incidentally Rick was also using. ;)
BrowBeating! We like to tease you Rocky because you are SO serious ... but we wouldn't do that if we didn't love and respect you ... well at least until we heard at the last event that you're defecting. :rolleyes:
Hey, at least my thread showed how serious everyone is about rules. Let that be a warning to everyone "else!"
BrowBeating! We like to tease you Rocky because you are SO serious ... but we wouldn't do that if we didn't love and respect you ... well at least until we heard at the last event that you're defecting. :rolleyes:
Hey, at least my thread showed how serious everyone is about rules. Let that be a warning to everyone "else!"
| z3coupe | 11-07-2005 02:20 AM |
[QUOTE]BrowBeating! We like to tease you Rocky because you are SO serious ... but we wouldn't do that if we didn't love and respect you ... well at least until we heard at the last event that you're defecting. [/QUOTE]Teasing is one thing, but on a continuous basis is too much. Being told all your research on mods is wrong because I am not a TB lemming, gets to be old fast. And just because for awhile now I have not won or been as fast as Coleman, or as you guys put it, "only as good as your last race" does not mean I am washed up - yet. Nor have some useful input.
As for serious, if you only knew. When everything was stolen back in 1997, all I had was the extra clothes in my car, and the clothes I was wearing. Oh, and my cat that was still at the old place. I lost EVERY TROPY I had ever earned since 1974 - including an overall FTD, numerous class FTD trophies, and my 3 in a row regional ASP champ trophies. And to loose the SK1 championship 4 years ago by just a few tenths of a second at the last event, and by around .005 points overall because I HAD to be in Vegas for my ex GF's daugher's wedding, and had to drive 5 hours+ non-stop to get to the race without any sleep, to loose that after all my hard work, really hit me hard. I want to try and get back some of what I lost. So yes, I am serious.
As for serious, if you only knew. When everything was stolen back in 1997, all I had was the extra clothes in my car, and the clothes I was wearing. Oh, and my cat that was still at the old place. I lost EVERY TROPY I had ever earned since 1974 - including an overall FTD, numerous class FTD trophies, and my 3 in a row regional ASP champ trophies. And to loose the SK1 championship 4 years ago by just a few tenths of a second at the last event, and by around .005 points overall because I HAD to be in Vegas for my ex GF's daugher's wedding, and had to drive 5 hours+ non-stop to get to the race without any sleep, to loose that after all my hard work, really hit me hard. I want to try and get back some of what I lost. So yes, I am serious.
| KC | 11-07-2005 07:50 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]Hey, at least my thread showed how serious everyone is about rules. Let that be a warning to everyone "else!"[/QUOTE]
Umm... are rules NOT supposed to be taken seriously? Yeah.. let it be a warning... if you try and bend or break the rules, not all regions will appreciate it and you might not be welcomed back.
However it looks like things are different in SD from the picture Mako paints. It seems like SD Region doesn't like to follow rules... so no wonder there's 3-4 different clubs down there because they all have their politics.... and now those politics have filtered their way into this forum... (ie: Team Blew turns a blind eye to the rules... that's really going to be remembered come nationals.... and they paint a good picture on SD in general becuase the club doesn't enforce the SCCA rules.)
Yes, I would say that most of the country that follow SCCA rules take them seriously... at least those members that have been autoxing for a few years. Asking everyone here on advice for what you should do with your rules is laughable really and I had a good time with this thread.
The only people that you should really ask... are not the competitors, but your local Solo board and ask THEM if you can run in STU with Street Mod mods on your car... we're just the general public where every club does something different from the rest. If the local board says sure.... think of the other allowances they'd have to make.
Why you came here with the original question is just to stir up **** I would guess.
--kC
Umm... are rules NOT supposed to be taken seriously? Yeah.. let it be a warning... if you try and bend or break the rules, not all regions will appreciate it and you might not be welcomed back.
However it looks like things are different in SD from the picture Mako paints. It seems like SD Region doesn't like to follow rules... so no wonder there's 3-4 different clubs down there because they all have their politics.... and now those politics have filtered their way into this forum... (ie: Team Blew turns a blind eye to the rules... that's really going to be remembered come nationals.... and they paint a good picture on SD in general becuase the club doesn't enforce the SCCA rules.)
Yes, I would say that most of the country that follow SCCA rules take them seriously... at least those members that have been autoxing for a few years. Asking everyone here on advice for what you should do with your rules is laughable really and I had a good time with this thread.
The only people that you should really ask... are not the competitors, but your local Solo board and ask THEM if you can run in STU with Street Mod mods on your car... we're just the general public where every club does something different from the rest. If the local board says sure.... think of the other allowances they'd have to make.
Why you came here with the original question is just to stir up **** I would guess.
--kC
| makofoto | 11-07-2005 12:09 PM |
My only problem is that I'm a nice, open and naive guy that respected some of your opinions.
Don't bring our regional clubs into this ... I act on my own.
I'm in the Los Angeles region, not San Diego.
Our regional set-up appears to be different then in some other areas. Our "mother" club, California Sports Car Club ... is made up of 10 sub clubs ... some are marque clubs, others are more general like Guildstrand Racing Association, famous Corvette racing club with I believe their own sub groups: Auto Cross, Road Racing, etc. Don't you dare insuiate anything towards anyone other then me because of this thread! As you know we have a lot of National Champions, GRA had 8 this year, and they certainly wouldn't appreciate any inuindo in regards to MY issue!
Don't bring our regional clubs into this ... I act on my own.
I'm in the Los Angeles region, not San Diego.
Our regional set-up appears to be different then in some other areas. Our "mother" club, California Sports Car Club ... is made up of 10 sub clubs ... some are marque clubs, others are more general like Guildstrand Racing Association, famous Corvette racing club with I believe their own sub groups: Auto Cross, Road Racing, etc. Don't you dare insuiate anything towards anyone other then me because of this thread! As you know we have a lot of National Champions, GRA had 8 this year, and they certainly wouldn't appreciate any inuindo in regards to MY issue!
| WRXIN | 11-07-2005 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe]
And as for Let me state for public record that I HAVE. Next year I will be back to my old team NO$.[/QUOTE]
Now that is by far the BEST news I've heard for months. :banana:
It would have been really easy for those of you who are all excited, to just reply to Mako's question with your opinions, without all the emotion... he's not trying to pull a fast one or anything...
And as for Let me state for public record that I HAVE. Next year I will be back to my old team NO$.[/QUOTE]
Now that is by far the BEST news I've heard for months. :banana:
It would have been really easy for those of you who are all excited, to just reply to Mako's question with your opinions, without all the emotion... he's not trying to pull a fast one or anything...
| trhoppe | 11-07-2005 12:47 PM |
[chris farley voice]
Big fish in a little pond
Big fish in a little pond
| WRXIN | 11-07-2005 12:49 PM |
And what does that mean?
| KC | 11-07-2005 12:53 PM |
[QUOTE=WRXIN]Now that is by far the BEST news I've heard for months. :banana:
It would have been really easy for those of you who are all excited, to just reply to Mako's question with your opinions, without all the emotion... he's not trying to pull a fast one or anything...[/QUOTE]
Who's exicted? I'm just verbose. :)
It's a regional problem... when he comes on to a natoinal list asking what he should do in his region, and now he's shocked at the responses? We can only go on what we hear. I have friends that live down there, I'm kinda well versed on some of the politics.. sorry for bringing it up.. should have known better... but how is 'My frineds said it was ok' [B]ANY DIFFERENT[/B]?? It's not.. it's all bull **** politics. That's how it starts.
IMHO.. he is trying to pull a fast one. There are n00bs to the sport that get turned off when a certain 'clique' does what they want with the rules and those in charge turn a blind eye to it.... again... it [B]IS[/B] all politics.
Mako is not new to the sport. He knows there's rules. I sincerely have the impression that becuase he doesn't want to follow the rules he doesn't really understand the concept of auto-x.. and if all his friends say it's ok for Mako to cheat.. that's what it is.. no ands if or buts about it.... it diminishes everyones fun in the sport. How is that NOT politics?
Mako.. you say you wouldn't run for points... fantastic.. run in a different class.. the RIGHT class if points don't matter.
--kC
It would have been really easy for those of you who are all excited, to just reply to Mako's question with your opinions, without all the emotion... he's not trying to pull a fast one or anything...[/QUOTE]
Who's exicted? I'm just verbose. :)
It's a regional problem... when he comes on to a natoinal list asking what he should do in his region, and now he's shocked at the responses? We can only go on what we hear. I have friends that live down there, I'm kinda well versed on some of the politics.. sorry for bringing it up.. should have known better... but how is 'My frineds said it was ok' [B]ANY DIFFERENT[/B]?? It's not.. it's all bull **** politics. That's how it starts.
IMHO.. he is trying to pull a fast one. There are n00bs to the sport that get turned off when a certain 'clique' does what they want with the rules and those in charge turn a blind eye to it.... again... it [B]IS[/B] all politics.
Mako is not new to the sport. He knows there's rules. I sincerely have the impression that becuase he doesn't want to follow the rules he doesn't really understand the concept of auto-x.. and if all his friends say it's ok for Mako to cheat.. that's what it is.. no ands if or buts about it.... it diminishes everyones fun in the sport. How is that NOT politics?
Mako.. you say you wouldn't run for points... fantastic.. run in a different class.. the RIGHT class if points don't matter.
--kC
| BlkWRXWag | 11-07-2005 01:04 PM |
I'm not sure how telling everyone what exactly you have done to your car and then asking for an opinion could be classified as cheating! This thread has got way out of hand.
| occytron wrc | 11-07-2005 01:13 PM |
Just be like me and get your ass kicked in your class every week. I have one mod that puts me in a higher class, but it doesn't make it any less fun. :D
| KC | 11-07-2005 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE=BlkWRXWag]I'm not sure how telling everyone what exactly you have done to your car and then asking for an opinion could be classified as cheating! This thread has got way out of hand.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I did a STU race in San Diego in August running my car on Azenis 215's and came in a distant 4th. [/QUOTE]
The fact that he's asking all the others in the class to let him cheat... isn't cheating?
IMHO... there's a difference between someone that's trying auto-x for the 1st time running in the wrong class and the competitiors not really caring... eventually the n00b gets the rules figured out and classes himself appropriately... vs... someone that's run auto-x for a few years, has a car that's set up for another class that doesn't want to run there any more becuse he cannot afford the tires....
There's a difference between knowing better and not knowing better.. those that know the rules and choose not to follow them... are.. what?
[QUOTE]I did a STU race in San Diego in August running my car on Azenis 215's and came in a distant 4th. [/QUOTE]
The fact that he's asking all the others in the class to let him cheat... isn't cheating?
IMHO... there's a difference between someone that's trying auto-x for the 1st time running in the wrong class and the competitiors not really caring... eventually the n00b gets the rules figured out and classes himself appropriately... vs... someone that's run auto-x for a few years, has a car that's set up for another class that doesn't want to run there any more becuse he cannot afford the tires....
There's a difference between knowing better and not knowing better.. those that know the rules and choose not to follow them... are.. what?
| Draken | 11-07-2005 01:25 PM |
My STi is not fully prepped for STU, therefore I'm going to ask all my competitors if I can run STX. I'm not really interested in points, but I don't want to lose either.
| z3coupe | 11-07-2005 01:40 PM |
occytron wrc - are you from Midlothian, Illinois? I used to work at Midlothian Toyota/BMW back in the late 70's![QUOTE]My STi is not fully prepped for STU, therefore I'm going to ask all my competitors if I can run STX. I'm not really interested in points, but I don't want to lose either.[/QUOTE]Dang Draken! I just about choked on my tea with that one!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ok folks, Mako has come to his senses, and will not do this. I offered to share my car once in awhile, others may as well. To have asked this in the first place was, well, entertaining in a strange way :huh: Hopefully this will not reflect on our local region. It is not the norm here to do this, and at least instead of sneaking around, I have to give him credit for asking, though it should never have been a thought. But he did ask, and the region as a whole was not effected by this as it won't happen cause it was brought out in the open.
Guess now is the time we should put this to beddy bye? Though Draken does take the cake with is comment! :lol: Oh, and hope this sends a message to others to try and either be up front and honest (never know who is watching!) or don't even go there in the first place.
Ok folks, Mako has come to his senses, and will not do this. I offered to share my car once in awhile, others may as well. To have asked this in the first place was, well, entertaining in a strange way :huh: Hopefully this will not reflect on our local region. It is not the norm here to do this, and at least instead of sneaking around, I have to give him credit for asking, though it should never have been a thought. But he did ask, and the region as a whole was not effected by this as it won't happen cause it was brought out in the open.
Guess now is the time we should put this to beddy bye? Though Draken does take the cake with is comment! :lol: Oh, and hope this sends a message to others to try and either be up front and honest (never know who is watching!) or don't even go there in the first place.
| occytron wrc | 11-07-2005 01:52 PM |
[QUOTE]occytron wrc - are you from Midlothian, Illinois? I used to work at Midlothian Toyota/BMW back in the late 70's![/QUOTE]
No, unfotunately I am in Midlothain Va.
No, unfotunately I am in Midlothain Va.
| buzz313th | 11-07-2005 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE=z3Coupe]Is Barco the STAC or SEB? Nope, don't think so.
[/QUOTE]
[Sprinting for cover]
Please keep my name outa this one.
:confused:
JB
[/QUOTE]
[Sprinting for cover]
Please keep my name outa this one.
:confused:
JB
| buzz313th | 11-07-2005 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE=z3coupe] I have even taken some brow beating from him and the guys from TB because I did not go with Barco's magic coilovers or the Zyzyx specials.
[/QUOTE]
Who's coilovers????????
You mean the Koni 2817's?
Damn Rocky, you are the one who asked us for advice on coilovers. I gave you an honest oppinion. There was no "Brow Bashing". Your just way too sensitive.
Everytime you ask, I give you my oppinion. Take it or leave it.
You seem to have no problem dishing out the friendly banter, but when it gets sent back your way, you get all personal about it.
[Back on subject]
Mako is one generous, honest man, the most generous of anyone I have ever met. He would be the last person on earth to be caught doing something devious.
Mako came here to ask people how they feel about his idea. He got his answers. Please don't treat him with any disrespect.
JB
[/QUOTE]
Who's coilovers????????
You mean the Koni 2817's?
Damn Rocky, you are the one who asked us for advice on coilovers. I gave you an honest oppinion. There was no "Brow Bashing". Your just way too sensitive.
Everytime you ask, I give you my oppinion. Take it or leave it.
You seem to have no problem dishing out the friendly banter, but when it gets sent back your way, you get all personal about it.
[Back on subject]
Mako is one generous, honest man, the most generous of anyone I have ever met. He would be the last person on earth to be caught doing something devious.
Mako came here to ask people how they feel about his idea. He got his answers. Please don't treat him with any disrespect.
JB
| KC | 11-07-2005 03:54 PM |
[QUOTE=buzz313th]Mako came here to ask people how they feel about his idea. He got his answers. Please don't treat him with any disrespect.
JB[/QUOTE]That woud imply we respect him in the 1st place. :devil: ;)
Alls cool here. Just hate it when someone asks 'Can I cheat?.. even if it's ok with everyone else?'
--kC
JB[/QUOTE]That woud imply we respect him in the 1st place. :devil: ;)
Alls cool here. Just hate it when someone asks 'Can I cheat?.. even if it's ok with everyone else?'
--kC
| buzz313th | 11-07-2005 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]You recommended Koni 2817s to someone? :lol: :lol:
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Small fish in a really small pond...........:p
:lol: :lol:
I thought it was pretty funny too. Thank god they didn't take my advice.
:lol: :lol:
JB
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Small fish in a really small pond...........:p
:lol: :lol:
I thought it was pretty funny too. Thank god they didn't take my advice.
:lol: :lol:
JB
| trhoppe | 11-07-2005 05:49 PM |
[quote]
You mean the Koni 2817's?[/quote] You recommended Koni 2817s to someone? :lol: :lol:
-Tom
You mean the Koni 2817's?[/quote] You recommended Koni 2817s to someone? :lol: :lol:
-Tom
| Draken | 11-07-2005 07:23 PM |
does advertising your whp in your little description make you fast4r?
<============8
I can't wait to come down and meet you BLEW guys in person. I intend to run the LA Pro, and maybe SD NT assuming i want to take the time off.
Chris H.
team swallow
<============8
I can't wait to come down and meet you BLEW guys in person. I intend to run the LA Pro, and maybe SD NT assuming i want to take the time off.
Chris H.
team swallow
| KC | 11-07-2005 07:34 PM |
[QUOTE=subyscott]I gotten to know Mako pretty good and he is a very generous person who would help anyone, I have seen this first hand. He works harder than anyone and really helps out the new guys.[/QUOTE]
You guys keep bringing this up... let me make it clear:
[b]THIS HAS NEVER BEEN IN QUESTION[/b]!
I ALSO KNOW Mako is a very nice guy. You Team Blew Guys are nice people... that has never been in question either.
[QUOTE]So he asked a simple question big f*cking deal you guys aren't Auto Crossers your Psycho Crossers.[/QUOTE]
Come to almost any other region auto-x with mods that Mako wanted to do and run in STU and see how quickly it will be before you're asked to run in the correct class.
Let's make this crystal clear: 98% of the clubs out there don't stand for people that know the rules but don't think they should apply to them, even tho the people they run against said they'd be cool with it. Most follow the rules.
Re-read my 1st post... I'd be cool with it too... but it wouldn't ultimately be up to me.. it would be up to everyone that you run against. If there's one person that doesn't like it... then that one person is the decider.. NOT the outsider.
[QUOTE]And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old <A href="mailto:[email�protected]"[/QUOTE">[email�protected]"[/QUOTE]
Wait just a minute... so a guy wants people to play by the rule book you agree to follow when you compete... and that's being bitter? You guys really are out of touch.. all that good weather has gotten to ya. Come out of that little corner of the country and see how the rest of the county runs events.
--kC
Team Spit.
You guys keep bringing this up... let me make it clear:
[b]THIS HAS NEVER BEEN IN QUESTION[/b]!
I ALSO KNOW Mako is a very nice guy. You Team Blew Guys are nice people... that has never been in question either.
[QUOTE]So he asked a simple question big f*cking deal you guys aren't Auto Crossers your Psycho Crossers.[/QUOTE]
Come to almost any other region auto-x with mods that Mako wanted to do and run in STU and see how quickly it will be before you're asked to run in the correct class.
Let's make this crystal clear: 98% of the clubs out there don't stand for people that know the rules but don't think they should apply to them, even tho the people they run against said they'd be cool with it. Most follow the rules.
Re-read my 1st post... I'd be cool with it too... but it wouldn't ultimately be up to me.. it would be up to everyone that you run against. If there's one person that doesn't like it... then that one person is the decider.. NOT the outsider.
[QUOTE]And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old <A href="mailto:[email�protected]"[/QUOTE">[email�protected]"[/QUOTE]
Wait just a minute... so a guy wants people to play by the rule book you agree to follow when you compete... and that's being bitter? You guys really are out of touch.. all that good weather has gotten to ya. Come out of that little corner of the country and see how the rest of the county runs events.
--kC
Team Spit.
| BlkWRXWag | 11-07-2005 07:34 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken]I can't wait to come down and meet you BLEW guys in person. I intend to run the LA Pro, and maybe SD NT assuming i want to take the time off.[/QUOTE]
Come on down - they're both a lot of fun. We even let KC sit in our tent last year :banana:
Come on down - they're both a lot of fun. We even let KC sit in our tent last year :banana:
| subyscott | 11-07-2005 07:44 PM |
[QUOTE=buzz313th]Who's coilovers????????
You mean the Koni 2817's?
Damn Rocky, you are the one who asked us for advice on coilovers. I gave you an honest oppinion. There was no "Brow Bashing". Your just way too sensitive.
Everytime you ask, I give you my oppinion. Take it or leave it.
You seem to have no problem dishing out the friendly banter, but when it gets sent back your way, you get all personal about it.
[Back on subject]
Mako is one generous, honest man, the most generous of anyone I have ever met. He would be the last person on earth to be caught doing something devious.
Mako came here to ask people how they feel about his idea. He got his answers. Please don't treat him with any disrespect.
JB[/QUOTE]
I gotten to know Mako pretty good and he is a very generous person who would help anyone, I have seen this first hand. He works harder than anyone and really helps out the new guys. When I was new JB, MC, NR, HB all were so helpfull to me as well. So he asked a simple question big f*cking deal you guys aren't Auto Crossers your Psycho Crossers.
And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old [email�protected]"
You mean the Koni 2817's?
Damn Rocky, you are the one who asked us for advice on coilovers. I gave you an honest oppinion. There was no "Brow Bashing". Your just way too sensitive.
Everytime you ask, I give you my oppinion. Take it or leave it.
You seem to have no problem dishing out the friendly banter, but when it gets sent back your way, you get all personal about it.
[Back on subject]
Mako is one generous, honest man, the most generous of anyone I have ever met. He would be the last person on earth to be caught doing something devious.
Mako came here to ask people how they feel about his idea. He got his answers. Please don't treat him with any disrespect.
JB[/QUOTE]
I gotten to know Mako pretty good and he is a very generous person who would help anyone, I have seen this first hand. He works harder than anyone and really helps out the new guys. When I was new JB, MC, NR, HB all were so helpfull to me as well. So he asked a simple question big f*cking deal you guys aren't Auto Crossers your Psycho Crossers.
And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old [email�protected]"
| subyscott | 11-07-2005 07:47 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Wow, aren't you a douchebag. Go away and don't come back :)
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Just writing it how I see it, I'm just a little more direct. Sorry if I hurt anyones tender little feelings.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Just writing it how I see it, I'm just a little more direct. Sorry if I hurt anyones tender little feelings.
| trhoppe | 11-07-2005 08:01 PM |
[QUOTE=subyscott]I gotten to know Mako pretty good and he is a very generous person who would help anyone, I have seen this first hand. He works harder than anyone and really helps out the new guys. When I was new JB, MC, NR, HB all were so helpfull to me. So he asked a simple question big f*cking deal you guys aren't Auto Crossers your Psycho Crossers.
And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old [email�protected]"[/QUOTE]
Wow, aren't you a douchebag. Go away and don't come back :)
-Tom
And Rocky I don't know you but you seem like a miserable person who hates life because everything I have ever read that has your name attached to it is a bunch of bitter [email�protected] I say good riddance maybe you should start your own team called "Team Grouchy Old [email�protected]"[/QUOTE]
Wow, aren't you a douchebag. Go away and don't come back :)
-Tom
| WagonMonster | 11-07-2005 08:20 PM |
Ok then
I think we've had enough
I think we've had enough
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