| johnfelstead | 04-01-2002 11:02 AM |
Motorsport Forum Idea
Hi Guys,
After reading through all the recent threads re the forums being split up plus the compromise that Jamie and Nick came up with with regards to indicating the people who have experience in various areas, plus looking at the way the forum is being filled with lots and lots of AutoX questions i had this thought and wondered what you think of it.
It looks like the majority of people were against spliting up this forum into rally, race, technical etc. etc. (i certainly am :D) but there was some consensus that AutoX may benefit from its own sub forum. We had the sticky thread for AutoX for a while that seemed to keep things tidy but that didnt work properly after a while as lots of subjects got mixed up in there.
So a simple question. What do you guys think to having a subforum for AutoX as that would give those guys a place to hang out yet not fill motorsport so much and get the forum back to what it used to be in terms of rally, race etc posts. It seems that the AutoX boys have found motorsport forum and are now using it much more than before. (which is cool, but has changed the look considerably)
what do you think?
After reading through all the recent threads re the forums being split up plus the compromise that Jamie and Nick came up with with regards to indicating the people who have experience in various areas, plus looking at the way the forum is being filled with lots and lots of AutoX questions i had this thought and wondered what you think of it.
It looks like the majority of people were against spliting up this forum into rally, race, technical etc. etc. (i certainly am :D) but there was some consensus that AutoX may benefit from its own sub forum. We had the sticky thread for AutoX for a while that seemed to keep things tidy but that didnt work properly after a while as lots of subjects got mixed up in there.
So a simple question. What do you guys think to having a subforum for AutoX as that would give those guys a place to hang out yet not fill motorsport so much and get the forum back to what it used to be in terms of rally, race etc posts. It seems that the AutoX boys have found motorsport forum and are now using it much more than before. (which is cool, but has changed the look considerably)
what do you think?
| KC | 04-01-2002 11:28 AM |
Ahhh yup. :) Would definitely be beneficial. :)
| Petrie | 04-01-2002 12:14 PM |
The autox season has just started and, as a sport, it is an easy entry (no heavy car prep). I think the posts will slide off again soon. You will always get newbies asking questions that a search could address but it's not that many. I think the number of posts on this forum is not too many, so keep it as one forum.
| Dr. WOT | 04-01-2002 01:10 PM |
The essence of auto-x questions is how-to. If you going to make a forum for how-to questions, why limit it to auto-x only? People may also have questions about drag racing (which has obviously gained alot of popularity around here). Or they may have questions about amatuer rally events.
That's why I suggested in the last topic to have two forums - one for watching pros, the other for regular people participating in grassroots motorsports.
That's why I suggested in the last topic to have two forums - one for watching pros, the other for regular people participating in grassroots motorsports.
| johnfelstead | 04-01-2002 01:24 PM |
I think AutoX is a special case. The forum has changed a lot of late with the AutoX input. The rest seems to fit better in the one forum though. This is what randy posted as he couldnt post here for some reason?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by randy zimmer [/i]
[B]I was locked out of JohnFs thread.
Anyway, there are so many solo guys and they'll all ask the same things over and over. Don't get me wrong, I started out by going Solo but when you're new you're excited and eager and impatient. No question too dumb and they'll never calm down in number. Let's get a solo forum like JohnF said. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by randy zimmer [/i]
[B]I was locked out of JohnFs thread.
Anyway, there are so many solo guys and they'll all ask the same things over and over. Don't get me wrong, I started out by going Solo but when you're new you're excited and eager and impatient. No question too dumb and they'll never calm down in number. Let's get a solo forum like JohnF said. [/B][/QUOTE]
| Scoobie Doogie | 04-01-2002 03:45 PM |
Mr. Felstead,
Thank you for your level-headed input to this forum issue. This is why there is hope for I-Club. Good egg.
Dave MacDougall
Thank you for your level-headed input to this forum issue. This is why there is hope for I-Club. Good egg.
Dave MacDougall
| johnfelstead | 04-01-2002 08:29 PM |
Thanks Dave, very kind of you to say so.:o
| OnTheGas | 04-02-2002 12:01 AM |
Why?
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, or if someone must repeat something, but why do this? What is the benefit?
I'm not sure what problem we are solving, so I want to be clear on this... Thanks!
I'm not sure what problem we are solving, so I want to be clear on this... Thanks!
| Subie Gal | 04-02-2002 11:15 AM |
there are an influx of Autox threads...
from wheel/tire questions to rules/regs for autox...
we're trying to sort out how to compile these
so that they do not clog up the motorsports forum
yet remain useful and a source of information to all.
your constructive suggestions/input are more than welcome
cheers
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
from wheel/tire questions to rules/regs for autox...
we're trying to sort out how to compile these
so that they do not clog up the motorsports forum
yet remain useful and a source of information to all.
your constructive suggestions/input are more than welcome
cheers
Jamie
[url]www.subiegalracing.com[/url]
| freq | 04-02-2002 07:04 PM |
There has been an influx of autox threads here because there are still questions on what mods equal what class for the wrx. There has not been final clarification on a number of issues, (as you probably read in other threads on this forum) a search yields only more questions.
relax, the auto-x questions will die down.
The unwashed autocross masses are not trying to muddy up your little forum, just trying to get some answers. compared to some other forums on iclub, this one is a ghost town.
(nomex britches on)
-Brandon
relax, the auto-x questions will die down.
The unwashed autocross masses are not trying to muddy up your little forum, just trying to get some answers. compared to some other forums on iclub, this one is a ghost town.
(nomex britches on)
-Brandon
| johnfelstead | 04-02-2002 07:17 PM |
Quality over quantity Brandon. :D
And no one classes the AutoX guys as unwashed, just trying to be constructive alround.
*tumbleweed rolls on by*
P.S Take your Nomex off, we are civilised in these parts! :D
And no one classes the AutoX guys as unwashed, just trying to be constructive alround.
*tumbleweed rolls on by*
P.S Take your Nomex off, we are civilised in these parts! :D
| Subie Gal | 04-02-2002 07:36 PM |
this forum may not have as many threads/posts
but it's only been her 1/3rd as long as the rest of them.
dont forget we created this forum only months ago...
;) constructive input.... or nada please
Jamie
but it's only been her 1/3rd as long as the rest of them.
dont forget we created this forum only months ago...
;) constructive input.... or nada please
Jamie
| OnTheGas | 04-02-2002 10:11 PM |
Constructive Input as Requested...
So the problem that we are trying to solve is the influx of auto-x threads here in the motorsports forum. I examined this influx, and here is what I've learned.
In the last 30 days, this forum had 221 threads. Of these, 35 were partially, or completely about Auto-X. Of these 35 threads, 8 were a mixture of auto-x and other motorsports. The remaining 27 threads were only about autocross.
So 35/30 = 1.1[U]6[/U] autocross threads per day. This is why I asked the question earlier, what is the real problem (or goal) that we are solving here? I still don't get it. It is either that:[list=1][*]the influx of 1.16 auto-x threads per day is very, very offensive to some of you, or ...[*]there is something else that is a problem (or issue) which is not being said out loud here.[/list]
The motorsports forum benefits from the existing cross-pollination of different motorsports using the same forum. For instance, here are the threads from the last month which had a mixture of input and information from autocross and other motorsports:[list][*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152757]Braking Technique Question[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155265]helmet advice[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161587]Left-foot braking[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157555]Track Trailer for WRX[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165783]Where to buy car # magnetics?[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133010]Revolution Motorsports Announcement of Sponsorships[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167036]Harnesses For Track and Auto-X[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165770]How To Remove Weight on Auto-Xer/Race-car[/URL][/list]This sharing of information between different types of motorsports is nothing but good, AFAIC.
Another benefit of auto-xers posting here is that auto-x is often the first participation for many folks in any type of motorsports. So if auto-xers are coming here for info, they are also exposed to information about other forms of motorsports, and they may be intrigued to try another motorsport such as a rally-cross, or a track day, both of which are more accessable than many folks realize, and can lead to further participation in motorsports.
In the last 30 days, this forum had 221 threads. Of these, 35 were partially, or completely about Auto-X. Of these 35 threads, 8 were a mixture of auto-x and other motorsports. The remaining 27 threads were only about autocross.
So 35/30 = 1.1[U]6[/U] autocross threads per day. This is why I asked the question earlier, what is the real problem (or goal) that we are solving here? I still don't get it. It is either that:[list=1][*]the influx of 1.16 auto-x threads per day is very, very offensive to some of you, or ...[*]there is something else that is a problem (or issue) which is not being said out loud here.[/list]
The motorsports forum benefits from the existing cross-pollination of different motorsports using the same forum. For instance, here are the threads from the last month which had a mixture of input and information from autocross and other motorsports:[list][*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152757]Braking Technique Question[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155265]helmet advice[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161587]Left-foot braking[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157555]Track Trailer for WRX[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165783]Where to buy car # magnetics?[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133010]Revolution Motorsports Announcement of Sponsorships[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167036]Harnesses For Track and Auto-X[/URL] [*][URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165770]How To Remove Weight on Auto-Xer/Race-car[/URL][/list]This sharing of information between different types of motorsports is nothing but good, AFAIC.
Another benefit of auto-xers posting here is that auto-x is often the first participation for many folks in any type of motorsports. So if auto-xers are coming here for info, they are also exposed to information about other forms of motorsports, and they may be intrigued to try another motorsport such as a rally-cross, or a track day, both of which are more accessable than many folks realize, and can lead to further participation in motorsports.
| rosss | 04-03-2002 12:09 AM |
A bit confused.
I guess I really don't understand this either. I'm trying to figure out how to offer constructive suggestions as Jamie suggests, but when one of our newly crowned "motorsports experts" says things like this:
[quote]
Please give the Solo guys their own place.
The whining is deafening and they'll keep protesting until they win.
[/quote]
it's kind of tough.
Maybe this would work: Perhaps just put a link to [url]http://www.sccaforums.com/[/url] and all the solo folks can go over there. Lots of good info (mostly SoloII but also the other SCCA-sanctioned stuff).
Oh, and again, I'll offer up our site -- [url]http://www.subrew.com/[/url] -- as a repository of information for RS and WRX autocrossers in the DS/GS/STS/STX classes (but we don't have any SP/SM/P/M specific information). We even have answers to most of those pesky rules questions for those classes via our new "rules walkthroughs" that should help the newbies out.
I don't have any other thoughts, so I'll wait and see what you folks come up with.
Sean
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
[quote]
Please give the Solo guys their own place.
The whining is deafening and they'll keep protesting until they win.
[/quote]
it's kind of tough.
Maybe this would work: Perhaps just put a link to [url]http://www.sccaforums.com/[/url] and all the solo folks can go over there. Lots of good info (mostly SoloII but also the other SCCA-sanctioned stuff).
Oh, and again, I'll offer up our site -- [url]http://www.subrew.com/[/url] -- as a repository of information for RS and WRX autocrossers in the DS/GS/STS/STX classes (but we don't have any SP/SM/P/M specific information). We even have answers to most of those pesky rules questions for those classes via our new "rules walkthroughs" that should help the newbies out.
I don't have any other thoughts, so I'll wait and see what you folks come up with.
Sean
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
| jaybird | 04-03-2002 11:07 AM |
I'm with OntheGas, rosss, freq and the others. Why make an extra forum that is only going to have like 2 or 3 new threads a day? If people want to talk more about auto x stuff they can go to any of the auto x forums. Plus like OntheGas demonstrated, the diverse forum has many bonuses. Cross polination strengthens the bread. I know some of you guys think auto x is not real racing or just plain dumb. The fact is that it provides a good entry level way of having fun with your car and isn't going to disappear any time soon. It helps people learn how to control their vehicle and maybe keeps people from doing dumb things on the street.
| subrew2 | 04-03-2002 11:24 AM |
What is determined to be more important in the motorsports forum?
A. People asking questions, who actually compete, or are about to compete for the first time in a form of racing, in their Subie?
or
B. Discussing televised autoracing events, that for the most part, rarely involve Subies (F1, CART etc.)?
or
C. Patting ourselves on the back, and telling each other how cool we are, and giving ourselves pretty, big bold red titles?
Sure seems like the autocross related threads might actually involve answer (A). So what is the problem with these threads? Too many? Come on. Bring on more autocross related threads in my opinion. Setup advice? Great thread. Tire pressure advice? Great thread. Again, what the hell is wrong with technical related threads, specific to a form of motorsports?
Lastly, because my tolerance for this whole "problem" has worn through, i have one more opinion, constructive or not:
This idea of determining if a person is "pro" or "semi-pro" and should be considered an expert, is in my opinion, BS.
What it seems like, is that the purpose was to somehow show, or prove, that if a person is involved in rallying (whether it be driving a full-on pro rally car, or changing the tires on a local club rally car) that they are "1-billion" times more important and experienced than someone who merely does "ameteur" motorsports. This seems to stem from the fact that most of the moderators are biased heavily towards rally.
Whatever the reasoning, perhaps moderators and "motorsports experts" should lay-off the autocross specific threads. I think, the autocross world in this forum is more than capable of keeping tabs on itself.
Chris H.
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
A. People asking questions, who actually compete, or are about to compete for the first time in a form of racing, in their Subie?
or
B. Discussing televised autoracing events, that for the most part, rarely involve Subies (F1, CART etc.)?
or
C. Patting ourselves on the back, and telling each other how cool we are, and giving ourselves pretty, big bold red titles?
Sure seems like the autocross related threads might actually involve answer (A). So what is the problem with these threads? Too many? Come on. Bring on more autocross related threads in my opinion. Setup advice? Great thread. Tire pressure advice? Great thread. Again, what the hell is wrong with technical related threads, specific to a form of motorsports?
Lastly, because my tolerance for this whole "problem" has worn through, i have one more opinion, constructive or not:
This idea of determining if a person is "pro" or "semi-pro" and should be considered an expert, is in my opinion, BS.
What it seems like, is that the purpose was to somehow show, or prove, that if a person is involved in rallying (whether it be driving a full-on pro rally car, or changing the tires on a local club rally car) that they are "1-billion" times more important and experienced than someone who merely does "ameteur" motorsports. This seems to stem from the fact that most of the moderators are biased heavily towards rally.
Whatever the reasoning, perhaps moderators and "motorsports experts" should lay-off the autocross specific threads. I think, the autocross world in this forum is more than capable of keeping tabs on itself.
Chris H.
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
| trhoppe | 04-04-2002 02:15 AM |
I totally agree with Chris H. on this one.
Just leave it alone :D
Just leave it alone :D
| Faraz | 04-04-2002 09:36 AM |
Yeah I feel the auto-xer should have their own forum just to get out of people who don't like the posts way.
They shouldn't be a problem, but they are to a handful of people. I can't see why the speed channel playing a rally on such and such date, is more important than say: does a hi-flow cat moves you out of your class? The Red tags lines for "Pro racers only" makes it seem more like favoritism than anything else. Little less TV guide and PR annoucments, and little more about racing is what this forum needs. Even if its [I]only[/I] lowly Solo2
They shouldn't be a problem, but they are to a handful of people. I can't see why the speed channel playing a rally on such and such date, is more important than say: does a hi-flow cat moves you out of your class? The Red tags lines for "Pro racers only" makes it seem more like favoritism than anything else. Little less TV guide and PR annoucments, and little more about racing is what this forum needs. Even if its [I]only[/I] lowly Solo2
| Travis R | 04-04-2002 01:23 PM |
I must have a misunderstanding of what the motorsports forum was for. The exchange of racing information, that usually (but not necessarily) pertains Subarus.
What are the percentages of drivers for the different styles of racing among the membes of this board? We've got 1 bonafide road racer (in the states), maybe a dozen or two folks that participate in rallying.... and what, maybe a thousand people that participate in SoloII. The way I see it, you guys should get out of OUR forum. ;) :lol:
Seriously though, I like the mix of topics that are in the forum. The regular bets/ discussions of the upcoming WRC/F1 action. How Gary did against the Bimmers at his last race. Etc.
I say we leave it the way it is and ditch the "titles". This is the internet afterall, I always take what I read at face value, so a little red title doesn't really change anything IMO.
What are the percentages of drivers for the different styles of racing among the membes of this board? We've got 1 bonafide road racer (in the states), maybe a dozen or two folks that participate in rallying.... and what, maybe a thousand people that participate in SoloII. The way I see it, you guys should get out of OUR forum. ;) :lol:
Seriously though, I like the mix of topics that are in the forum. The regular bets/ discussions of the upcoming WRC/F1 action. How Gary did against the Bimmers at his last race. Etc.
I say we leave it the way it is and ditch the "titles". This is the internet afterall, I always take what I read at face value, so a little red title doesn't really change anything IMO.
| ColinL | 04-04-2002 01:52 PM |
Chris is gonna get smacked down for that one, but I agree with his opinion.
I have difficulty viewing the purpose of the red titles in any positive way. Just how many newbies do we have in this forum, and how long does it take them to realize who the experts really are, when those experts choose to share some knowledge?
Not long, in my opinion.
I saw nothing wrong with this forum before any recent tampering. I thought the sticky 'autocross rules' thread was to help facilitate autocross discussion here and prevent unnecessary repetition, not to herd the bad children somewhere to make others happy. If I'm mistaken and no one was unsatisfied with the forum, then consider just letting things be... clearly a number of people had no problems with it, and anyone that did can either deal with it or look elsewhere for their fix.
There are already numerous forums on other sites dedicated to rally, autocross, F1, etc so why change? I liked this forum as a nice hodgepodge, with an obvious bias towards Subaru because we presumably all have that in common.
I have difficulty viewing the purpose of the red titles in any positive way. Just how many newbies do we have in this forum, and how long does it take them to realize who the experts really are, when those experts choose to share some knowledge?
Not long, in my opinion.
I saw nothing wrong with this forum before any recent tampering. I thought the sticky 'autocross rules' thread was to help facilitate autocross discussion here and prevent unnecessary repetition, not to herd the bad children somewhere to make others happy. If I'm mistaken and no one was unsatisfied with the forum, then consider just letting things be... clearly a number of people had no problems with it, and anyone that did can either deal with it or look elsewhere for their fix.
There are already numerous forums on other sites dedicated to rally, autocross, F1, etc so why change? I liked this forum as a nice hodgepodge, with an obvious bias towards Subaru because we presumably all have that in common.
| Dr. WOT | 04-04-2002 02:05 PM |
My only further suggestion would be that before something gets implemented, it is put to a vote, rather than simply being decided by the powers that be. This forum seems to be a tight-knit community within i-club and I think we'd all like to see it evolve in a manner that is beneficial to the majority. I for one would accept any decision that we arrived at democratically.
| trhoppe | 04-04-2002 02:14 PM |
[QUOTE]it is put to a vote, rather than simply being decided by the powers that be[/QUOTE] A very good idea. Why don't you guys put up a sticky poll at the top for a few weeks and see what happens with that before you decide?
| johnfelstead | 04-04-2002 03:04 PM |
Thanks for all the input. I was under the impresion that the guys who did the AutoX thing wanted their own place to make it easier for them to search through all the rules questions etc that are constantly reacuring. That was the idea behind the original sticky and i thought that was well recieved. Maybe i misunderstood what i was reading? I dont think so but this thread seems to suggest that. Thats fair enough, thats why i said lets discuss this and keep it civilised.
If you read the other threads i am pretty vocal about not splitting the forums up but i did pick up the the AutoX guys wanting something for themselves, i am a bit :confused: by the fact the message in this thread is definately not the case and you guys are even taking it as an insult, which was not the intent at all. If you care to read my first post you can see that!
As to the red titles, i didnt want one, again read the other threads about splitting the forums etc. Main reason was because i was afraid that people would not question what an "expert" was saying, which could stifle debate.
The thing is, Nick wants some way of the newbies picking up on who knows, or should know, what they are talking about. He also wanted a way to involve the likes of the car prep experts who want to give more input. It was a compromise that i think is worthwhile. No one here is on a power trip or has a swolen head because they now have a bit of red under their name, they would have to be sad bastards if that were the case.
Sure, we are a tight knit comunity here, thats why i like the place as in general we all get along and have fun whilst being constructive and technical when it's asked for. To say this place is about PR releases and discussing TV is B.S. Thats not what this place is about, thats just one side of this forum and it's fun, something i sure want to see continue as i have enough $hite to deal with daily with work, if this place was 100% answering technical queries i would be put off visiting.
So it seems you dont want a forum on your own, thats :cool: . i am still :confused: based on what i read before.
subrew2, you need to chill out a bit and not feel like you are being persecuted.
[QUOTE]What it seems like, is that the purpose was to somehow show, or prove, that if a person is involved in rallying (whether it be driving a full-on pro rally car, or changing the tires on a local club rally car) that they are "1-billion" times more important and experienced than someone who merely does "ameteur" motorsports. This seems to stem from the fact that most of the moderators are biased heavily towards rally. [/QUOTE]
We have one moderator in this forum that actually seems to moderate, thats Jamie and she is probably the most promising female rally driver the USA has right now. Sure she has a Rally interest first and foremost but that has never affected her interest in seeing this forum work for everyone. She is the one person who really cares about the fact this forum isnt full of flame wars and the like. I can remember just one flame war in here and i was a very bad boy in that. :D It's so rare i remember it! Where your "most moderators", plural that are biased comes from i dont know? There is certainly no "my sport is superior to your sport" attitudes from Jamie or anyone i can think of who posts here, you got me on that one? If you are refering to the initial rules about who is an "expert" and who isnt, there was a caveat to that which said, tell us if we have it wrong and we will look at it. Read the experts thread again, Jamie and Nick have listened to that.
I dont think i can say much more. You are not being thought of as unimportant, quite the oposite, the intent was to give everyone what they want. That's all everyone is after isnt it!
If you read the other threads i am pretty vocal about not splitting the forums up but i did pick up the the AutoX guys wanting something for themselves, i am a bit :confused: by the fact the message in this thread is definately not the case and you guys are even taking it as an insult, which was not the intent at all. If you care to read my first post you can see that!
As to the red titles, i didnt want one, again read the other threads about splitting the forums etc. Main reason was because i was afraid that people would not question what an "expert" was saying, which could stifle debate.
The thing is, Nick wants some way of the newbies picking up on who knows, or should know, what they are talking about. He also wanted a way to involve the likes of the car prep experts who want to give more input. It was a compromise that i think is worthwhile. No one here is on a power trip or has a swolen head because they now have a bit of red under their name, they would have to be sad bastards if that were the case.
Sure, we are a tight knit comunity here, thats why i like the place as in general we all get along and have fun whilst being constructive and technical when it's asked for. To say this place is about PR releases and discussing TV is B.S. Thats not what this place is about, thats just one side of this forum and it's fun, something i sure want to see continue as i have enough $hite to deal with daily with work, if this place was 100% answering technical queries i would be put off visiting.
So it seems you dont want a forum on your own, thats :cool: . i am still :confused: based on what i read before.
subrew2, you need to chill out a bit and not feel like you are being persecuted.
[QUOTE]What it seems like, is that the purpose was to somehow show, or prove, that if a person is involved in rallying (whether it be driving a full-on pro rally car, or changing the tires on a local club rally car) that they are "1-billion" times more important and experienced than someone who merely does "ameteur" motorsports. This seems to stem from the fact that most of the moderators are biased heavily towards rally. [/QUOTE]
We have one moderator in this forum that actually seems to moderate, thats Jamie and she is probably the most promising female rally driver the USA has right now. Sure she has a Rally interest first and foremost but that has never affected her interest in seeing this forum work for everyone. She is the one person who really cares about the fact this forum isnt full of flame wars and the like. I can remember just one flame war in here and i was a very bad boy in that. :D It's so rare i remember it! Where your "most moderators", plural that are biased comes from i dont know? There is certainly no "my sport is superior to your sport" attitudes from Jamie or anyone i can think of who posts here, you got me on that one? If you are refering to the initial rules about who is an "expert" and who isnt, there was a caveat to that which said, tell us if we have it wrong and we will look at it. Read the experts thread again, Jamie and Nick have listened to that.
I dont think i can say much more. You are not being thought of as unimportant, quite the oposite, the intent was to give everyone what they want. That's all everyone is after isnt it!
| ColinL | 04-04-2002 03:11 PM |
It was Randy Zimmer's callous comment that set him off. (the one he quoted from Subie Gal's thread looking for experts.)
Randy may have only fired that off from the hip but it's not hard to imagine some taking offense to it.
Randy may have only fired that off from the hip but it's not hard to imagine some taking offense to it.
| rosss | 04-04-2002 03:41 PM |
Colin: To avoid getting Chris in any more hot water than
he's probably already in, I'll point out that it was me that quoted
zimmer. ;)
And John, nobody's trying to single you out. I think you've
been trying to help what was perceived as a problem, and you wnet about it in a positive manner.
I just went through and re-read all of this. If you look at it
all again, the intent of a new autox forum was brought up
by two non-solo folks in the other thread, as a way to seemingly
"get rid" of us. Only one solo person spoke up in favor of it. The
rest of the posting was just us asking to not be ignored as
experts, which went pretty much unheard. The rest of the discussion and the start of this thread all point to moving us somewhere so that the "clutter" goes away. That seems weird to us when our posts don't seem to be any more or less relevant than anything else in here.
I don't want this to turn into some huge thing. I do
think that there is a bias around here about solo, whether
it appears that way to you or not. That bias has existed
for a long time, and isn't just part of this forum. We're
not going to eradicate it, so I say we all agree to disagree.
My personal opinion is that we should either recognize some
solo people as experts or we should get rid of the titles. I don't
care which, I just think there will always be some level
of discord about it otherwise.
Other than that, I still fail to see any real problem that
needs to be solved here. It all seemed to be working fine until
all this came up.
I'm sorry if this post looks all wacky, I'm using a funky
browser right now. If anybody wants to take any of this off-line with
me, feel free to e-mail me at [email][email protected][/email].
Sean
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
he's probably already in, I'll point out that it was me that quoted
zimmer. ;)
And John, nobody's trying to single you out. I think you've
been trying to help what was perceived as a problem, and you wnet about it in a positive manner.
I just went through and re-read all of this. If you look at it
all again, the intent of a new autox forum was brought up
by two non-solo folks in the other thread, as a way to seemingly
"get rid" of us. Only one solo person spoke up in favor of it. The
rest of the posting was just us asking to not be ignored as
experts, which went pretty much unheard. The rest of the discussion and the start of this thread all point to moving us somewhere so that the "clutter" goes away. That seems weird to us when our posts don't seem to be any more or less relevant than anything else in here.
I don't want this to turn into some huge thing. I do
think that there is a bias around here about solo, whether
it appears that way to you or not. That bias has existed
for a long time, and isn't just part of this forum. We're
not going to eradicate it, so I say we all agree to disagree.
My personal opinion is that we should either recognize some
solo people as experts or we should get rid of the titles. I don't
care which, I just think there will always be some level
of discord about it otherwise.
Other than that, I still fail to see any real problem that
needs to be solved here. It all seemed to be working fine until
all this came up.
I'm sorry if this post looks all wacky, I'm using a funky
browser right now. If anybody wants to take any of this off-line with
me, feel free to e-mail me at [email][email protected][/email].
Sean
[url]www.subrew.com[/url]
| TheWRX | 04-04-2002 03:43 PM |
If splitting the forum makes many people happier, I wouldn't have a big problem with two forums, but I would prefer to keep things the way they are. I would read both, and since the volume isn't very high, it's easier to have everything in one forum. Like others have expressed much more eloquently, I think the variety of this forum is a good thing.
Same about the red titles, if they make the forum better for people, then that's fine. I don't need them. I can decide for myself whose opinions I value, I don't care if they have a nice title or not.
I'm still planning on writing a post that could be used as start of a sticky for common Auto-X rule questions. I just didn't get to it yet, I had to do my taxes last weekend. Sometimes real life can just get in the way of things you really want to do. :(
Same about the red titles, if they make the forum better for people, then that's fine. I don't need them. I can decide for myself whose opinions I value, I don't care if they have a nice title or not.
I'm still planning on writing a post that could be used as start of a sticky for common Auto-X rule questions. I just didn't get to it yet, I had to do my taxes last weekend. Sometimes real life can just get in the way of things you really want to do. :(
| z3coupe | 05-10-2002 04:38 AM |
Ok, got my rant out of my system. Did not realize it was an OLD post, as when I saw it, it was back up near the top at the time. I apologize for the steam blowing off, but I still feel this point below makes sense. But I ALSO do not understand why the AutoX Rules: Read This First FAQ has still not been made a sticky? I think it is a very good post for a first timer to begin with.
[URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174189&perpage=25&pagenumber=1]AutoX Rules FAQ[/URL]
My thoughts. How can someone who preps rally cars (set up higher and looser) be an expert on AutoX or road racing (lower and stiffer)? And even road racing is not always that similar to cone chasing. Add to that, having to KNOW all the rules for the different classes and types of motorsports????? Sure, it was mentioned to give a link to the SCCAFORUMS (though it is not an official SCCA site), and there is the StreetTouring group on Yahoo, but they are not specific to Subes - and at times can be very [B]ANTI-SUBE[/B]!!!!! There are things we NEED to discuss amongst ourselves. To alienate AutoX drivers is not a good idea.
[URL=http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174189&perpage=25&pagenumber=1]AutoX Rules FAQ[/URL]
My thoughts. How can someone who preps rally cars (set up higher and looser) be an expert on AutoX or road racing (lower and stiffer)? And even road racing is not always that similar to cone chasing. Add to that, having to KNOW all the rules for the different classes and types of motorsports????? Sure, it was mentioned to give a link to the SCCAFORUMS (though it is not an official SCCA site), and there is the StreetTouring group on Yahoo, but they are not specific to Subes - and at times can be very [B]ANTI-SUBE[/B]!!!!! There are things we NEED to discuss amongst ourselves. To alienate AutoX drivers is not a good idea.
| cyRally | 05-10-2002 09:36 AM |
Totally agree. But lets remember that this is just a forum composed of people who just want to communicate, learn from eachother and have a good time.
Lets not get too serious. I think the goal of having titles was just a fun idea/way of knowing who you can/are comminicating with. Auto-X guys dont get enough respect, and its too bad that the moderators here 'may' be biased towards rallying. But what does biased mean? Although everyone here has different tastes, specialties and skills there is one thing that binds us all. Its a love for motorsports and of course all things Subaru.
It may be our passion, hobby, career or even just something youre starting to get interested in. Either way everyone should realize that we are all in this toghether to have FUN.
Lets not get too serious. I think the goal of having titles was just a fun idea/way of knowing who you can/are comminicating with. Auto-X guys dont get enough respect, and its too bad that the moderators here 'may' be biased towards rallying. But what does biased mean? Although everyone here has different tastes, specialties and skills there is one thing that binds us all. Its a love for motorsports and of course all things Subaru.
It may be our passion, hobby, career or even just something youre starting to get interested in. Either way everyone should realize that we are all in this toghether to have FUN.
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2002 09:48 AM |
How bizzare. This was dealt with and covered over a month ago. Why the rant now? :confused:
You are talking utter nonsense by the way, there is no elitest agenda in this forum. I compete or run cars in rally in the UK and USA/Canada, do racing, sprinting, hillclimbing, track days all over europe. Have done autotests (you call it autox), ****, i have even raced in a demolition derby banger race once as a guest driver (which i won :D).
bizzare. :confused:
You are talking utter nonsense by the way, there is no elitest agenda in this forum. I compete or run cars in rally in the UK and USA/Canada, do racing, sprinting, hillclimbing, track days all over europe. Have done autotests (you call it autox), ****, i have even raced in a demolition derby banger race once as a guest driver (which i won :D).
bizzare. :confused:
| ChrisW | 05-10-2002 11:41 AM |
John, I think it's a good idea.
I autox on a regular basis (for now) At the moment it is all I can afford. I plan to rally in the near future, but until then I think it is a good idea for the i-club to support what is essentially the entry point for many professional drivers in the US.
After reading the post on meet the pro's thread, I want to ask, how many of you started with autox/autotest before moving to rally or some other motorsports? be honest...
I think a forum or sub-motorsport forum is a great way to generate more traffic for the site. first we do autox, then expand to include other forums for road racing and rally as needed. Other have mentioned the sccaforums as a place for info, but in reality, they don't have the number viewers that i-club does.
I guess what I am trying to say is i-club is growing up, and [i]can[/i] be used to promote more than a single sport. We have 15,000 members with a wide variety of interest. The drag racers types have already taken over the forced factory induction forum, I think autox needs it's place too.
just wait until these autox'ers move to rally:D
I autox on a regular basis (for now) At the moment it is all I can afford. I plan to rally in the near future, but until then I think it is a good idea for the i-club to support what is essentially the entry point for many professional drivers in the US.
After reading the post on meet the pro's thread, I want to ask, how many of you started with autox/autotest before moving to rally or some other motorsports? be honest...
I think a forum or sub-motorsport forum is a great way to generate more traffic for the site. first we do autox, then expand to include other forums for road racing and rally as needed. Other have mentioned the sccaforums as a place for info, but in reality, they don't have the number viewers that i-club does.
I guess what I am trying to say is i-club is growing up, and [i]can[/i] be used to promote more than a single sport. We have 15,000 members with a wide variety of interest. The drag racers types have already taken over the forced factory induction forum, I think autox needs it's place too.
just wait until these autox'ers move to rally:D
| RallyMan555 | 05-10-2002 12:51 PM |
Sorry, I didn't read the entire story on this and maybe somebody already posted, but my suggestion is to divide motorsports thread in on-road and off-road. Meaning on-road – everything on the paved surface (auto-x, drag race, etc), off-road – on gravel, dirt (rally, rally sprint, rally-x, etc).
RallyMan
RallyMan
| johnfelstead | 05-10-2002 02:19 PM |
This is a very old subject. It was decided that we wont split the forum up.
As to how i started out in motorsport, i competed in my first rally, a road rally (rallying on unclosed public roads, similar to a tsd but at silly speeds really) when i was 17. Just after i started running in these events they were banned so i started driving on special stage rallies. I have followed rallying since i was in the womb :D. I am 36 now.
I competed in my first sprint about 10 years ago, did my first track day 9 years ago, drove the nurburgring first 1 1/2 years ago. Co-drove on a rally first time 7 years ago. Ran my first race car 9 years ago. marshalled on the RAC and UK rallies from 17 (i had a car to get there then). I have a pretty rounded background in all forms of car related sports/pasttimes and NOTHING comes close to rallying. Racing is great but doesnt match what you can do or see on a rally.
I used to fly gliders, went solo at 16, i have jumped out of perfectly good aircraft at 10,000ft, flown single engined aerobatics planes, tried quite a lot actually and Rallying still wins big style!
It's an adiction and should come with government health warnings. :D:lol:
BUT, all this said, there is still no bias against people who AUTOX, thats just as relevent. If all i could afford to do was compete in AutoX, i probably wouldnt because i find it too low speed to get a thrill, but i can see the atraction of the competition.
As to how i started out in motorsport, i competed in my first rally, a road rally (rallying on unclosed public roads, similar to a tsd but at silly speeds really) when i was 17. Just after i started running in these events they were banned so i started driving on special stage rallies. I have followed rallying since i was in the womb :D. I am 36 now.
I competed in my first sprint about 10 years ago, did my first track day 9 years ago, drove the nurburgring first 1 1/2 years ago. Co-drove on a rally first time 7 years ago. Ran my first race car 9 years ago. marshalled on the RAC and UK rallies from 17 (i had a car to get there then). I have a pretty rounded background in all forms of car related sports/pasttimes and NOTHING comes close to rallying. Racing is great but doesnt match what you can do or see on a rally.
I used to fly gliders, went solo at 16, i have jumped out of perfectly good aircraft at 10,000ft, flown single engined aerobatics planes, tried quite a lot actually and Rallying still wins big style!
It's an adiction and should come with government health warnings. :D:lol:
BUT, all this said, there is still no bias against people who AUTOX, thats just as relevent. If all i could afford to do was compete in AutoX, i probably wouldnt because i find it too low speed to get a thrill, but i can see the atraction of the competition.
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