| XenoWolf | 05-07-2006 10:47 AM |
NASA drops sanction of RNY USA/IRNY.
�
�
[quote][CENTER]MEMBER BULLETIN: NRS 2006-2 I
MPLEMENTATION DATE: IMMEDIATE
ISSUE DATE: May 6, 2006[/CENTER]
NASA Rally Sport will no longer sanction or insure Rally New York Ltd events with immediate effect. The event organized by New York Ltd and scheduled for September has been removed from the calendar.[/quote]
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/MemberBulletin2006-2.pdf]LINK[/URL] [/CENTER]
Apparently the issues surrounding RNY USA last month gave a fatal wound to the event... what a shame. :(
If anyone is 'lost', check out some of these threads on SpecialStage:
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3969]Rally New York beef[/URL] " (Seems the first post was edited/deleted though... you'll get the gist of it from the replies though)
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3970]Nicky Grist and Rally New York. Anyone have the facts?[/URL] "
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3965]RNY results[/URL] "
I don't want to stir up **** here, but I assume this is relevant considering we probably have competitors/spectators who browse here.
MPLEMENTATION DATE: IMMEDIATE
ISSUE DATE: May 6, 2006[/CENTER]
NASA Rally Sport will no longer sanction or insure Rally New York Ltd events with immediate effect. The event organized by New York Ltd and scheduled for September has been removed from the calendar.[/quote]
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/MemberBulletin2006-2.pdf]LINK[/URL] [/CENTER]
Apparently the issues surrounding RNY USA last month gave a fatal wound to the event... what a shame. :(
If anyone is 'lost', check out some of these threads on SpecialStage:
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3969]Rally New York beef[/URL] " (Seems the first post was edited/deleted though... you'll get the gist of it from the replies though)
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3970]Nicky Grist and Rally New York. Anyone have the facts?[/URL] "
"[URL=http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3965]RNY results[/URL] "
I don't want to stir up **** here, but I assume this is relevant considering we probably have competitors/spectators who browse here.
| Butt Dyno | 05-07-2006 12:33 PM |
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45331&postcount=67[/url]
[quote=akuhner]ow. I was number 45 and I didn't see any of this! I was nervous after I saw the "GO HOME RALLY [a-holes]" sign because I thought the next neighbor could be pissed/bored/drunk enough to throw bricks in the road or push his rusting jalopy into the road, but it was the last stage.[/quote]
:eek:
[quote=akuhner]ow. I was number 45 and I didn't see any of this! I was nervous after I saw the "GO HOME RALLY [a-holes]" sign because I thought the next neighbor could be pissed/bored/drunk enough to throw bricks in the road or push his rusting jalopy into the road, but it was the last stage.[/quote]
:eek:
| Mopho | 05-07-2006 12:42 PM |
But....But....But..... RNY was going to be a WRC Event :rolleyes:
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell RNY would be a WRC
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell RNY would be a WRC
| Bort | 05-07-2006 01:39 PM |
It was probably a wise move but it still sucks. I'm sure the all gravel rally would have had far less negative impact on the local population than this one.
Too bad, I really enjoyed these events.
Too bad, I really enjoyed these events.
| REDrum | 05-07-2006 02:54 PM |
The action by NASA need be taken as wake up call to the rally community. I have no doubt there were many compelling business drivers for NASA to pull the plug on RNY. However, I hope the US rally community can see through the hyperbole and negative politics surrounding the core PR and safety issues at last months tarmac event and extract some solid lessons learned as they plan and execute future Rallies.
IMO, unless US rally significantly increases its resource base (volunteers,PR, management, money) RNY may be the first event in long list to be added to history.
If you are a rally enthusiast, get out there and volunteer!!!! If you are a vendor of rally products, put a little back into the sport and sponsor a stage or two...
IMO, unless US rally significantly increases its resource base (volunteers,PR, management, money) RNY may be the first event in long list to be added to history.
If you are a rally enthusiast, get out there and volunteer!!!! If you are a vendor of rally products, put a little back into the sport and sponsor a stage or two...
| Subie Gal | 05-07-2006 05:46 PM |
[QUOTE=Mopho]But....But....But..... RNY was going to be a WRC Event :rolleyes:
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell RNY would be a WRC[/QUOTE]
:lol: ^^^^ what he said.
there is simply not enough unification and organization
to accomplish the massiveness that is... WRC
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell RNY would be a WRC[/QUOTE]
:lol: ^^^^ what he said.
there is simply not enough unification and organization
to accomplish the massiveness that is... WRC
| RB5 Clone | 05-07-2006 06:16 PM |
RNY fell down because of overambitious goals and significant event-mangement issues.
It did not fall down because tarmac rally is an unworkable concept for the US. Some RNY stages were 20+ miles long, running through populated but still rural country with lots of independent-minded residents; no wonder there were issues with people getting to where they shouldn't be on course.
A tarmac rally with a more concentrated itinerary and managed/staffed/marshaled better could add a really useful depth and breadth to the substance of US rally.
Lots of ppl who weren't there were quick to pile on and make big statements about things they really know little about. Having run in 2 RNYs with tarmac stages, I can't deny that there were serious problems. In fact, based on my experience at speed on twisty pavement, I was so excited about tarmac rallying that I switched to working an event to try and help make it better.
Rallying on tarmac is so much freaking fun, both to do and to watch. Please -- let's not let the hard lessons of Rally NY go unheeded and have organizers give up on tarmac events because of one high-profile fiasco.
Dave G
It did not fall down because tarmac rally is an unworkable concept for the US. Some RNY stages were 20+ miles long, running through populated but still rural country with lots of independent-minded residents; no wonder there were issues with people getting to where they shouldn't be on course.
A tarmac rally with a more concentrated itinerary and managed/staffed/marshaled better could add a really useful depth and breadth to the substance of US rally.
Lots of ppl who weren't there were quick to pile on and make big statements about things they really know little about. Having run in 2 RNYs with tarmac stages, I can't deny that there were serious problems. In fact, based on my experience at speed on twisty pavement, I was so excited about tarmac rallying that I switched to working an event to try and help make it better.
Rallying on tarmac is so much freaking fun, both to do and to watch. Please -- let's not let the hard lessons of Rally NY go unheeded and have organizers give up on tarmac events because of one high-profile fiasco.
Dave G
| platypus | 05-07-2006 07:47 PM |
boy, the combination of 80+ mph average (*average*!) stage speeds plus any non-rally traffic onstage is just carnage waiting to happen.
*shudder*
*shudder*
| Howl | 05-08-2006 09:04 AM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]The action by NASA need be taken as wake up call to the rally community. I have no doubt there were many compelling business drivers for NASA to pull the plug on RNY. However, I hope the US rally community can see through the hyperbole and negative politics surrounding the core PR and safety issues at last months tarmac event and extract some solid lessons learned as they plan and execute future Rallies.
IMO, unless US rally significantly increases its resource base (volunteers,PR, management, money) RNY may be the first event in long list to be added to history.
If you are a rally enthusiast, get out there and volunteer!!!! If you are a vendor of rally products, put a little back into the sport and sponsor a stage or two...[/QUOTE]
^^^ what he said ^^^
I wasn't at RNY so I don't know anything more than what I've read on the interwebs, but it sounds like a lack of manpower may be partially to blame. I've been part of the organizing committee for a number of rallies both regional and national (including a chief safety officer) and manpower on the day of the event is always a big issue. There are lots of people on the internet who SAY they are rally fans, but I never see them out in person at regional events, even as spectators let alone marshals. If we can't have a car parked at every intersection and trail crossing we can't safely run a rally. So if you want to see rallying continue in North America � volunteer as a marshal!!!
IMO, unless US rally significantly increases its resource base (volunteers,PR, management, money) RNY may be the first event in long list to be added to history.
If you are a rally enthusiast, get out there and volunteer!!!! If you are a vendor of rally products, put a little back into the sport and sponsor a stage or two...[/QUOTE]
^^^ what he said ^^^
I wasn't at RNY so I don't know anything more than what I've read on the interwebs, but it sounds like a lack of manpower may be partially to blame. I've been part of the organizing committee for a number of rallies both regional and national (including a chief safety officer) and manpower on the day of the event is always a big issue. There are lots of people on the internet who SAY they are rally fans, but I never see them out in person at regional events, even as spectators let alone marshals. If we can't have a car parked at every intersection and trail crossing we can't safely run a rally. So if you want to see rallying continue in North America � volunteer as a marshal!!!
| WRXedUSA | 05-08-2006 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE=Subie Gal]:lol: ^^^^ what he said.
there is simply not enough unification and organization
to accomplish the massiveness that is... WRC[/QUOTE]
12345
A WRC event takes the cooperation of the ENTIRE community. Basically the entire region is shut down for 3 days. WRC can't afford to have these "vigilantes" compromising safety.
there is simply not enough unification and organization
to accomplish the massiveness that is... WRC[/QUOTE]
12345
A WRC event takes the cooperation of the ENTIRE community. Basically the entire region is shut down for 3 days. WRC can't afford to have these "vigilantes" compromising safety.
| digitalpimp | 05-08-2006 12:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Mopho]
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell any nasa event would be a WRC[/QUOTE]
fixed
<------- Knew a long time ago there was no chance in hell any nasa event would be a WRC[/QUOTE]
fixed
| rallynutdon | 05-08-2006 01:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Howl]^^^ what he said ^^^
I wasn't at RNY so I don't know anything more than what I've read on the interwebs, but it sounds like a lack of manpower may be partially to blame. [/QUOTE]
That's partially to blame. But does anyone believe that there places/locations where it is just plain old wrong to try to hold a rally? (and yes, I've been there, both worked and ran the event) This location is in Ivans back yard. I'd love to organize as rally someday when I quit driving (which will be soon at my age) but i'll never try to do it close to my home town just for convience. If I have to drive 2-3 hours (and I know many organizers drive farther than that) to get in the boonies, that's the way it will be. And the hype about only 90 miles from NYC, that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee (as the old saying goes).
I wasn't at RNY so I don't know anything more than what I've read on the interwebs, but it sounds like a lack of manpower may be partially to blame. [/QUOTE]
That's partially to blame. But does anyone believe that there places/locations where it is just plain old wrong to try to hold a rally? (and yes, I've been there, both worked and ran the event) This location is in Ivans back yard. I'd love to organize as rally someday when I quit driving (which will be soon at my age) but i'll never try to do it close to my home town just for convience. If I have to drive 2-3 hours (and I know many organizers drive farther than that) to get in the boonies, that's the way it will be. And the hype about only 90 miles from NYC, that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee (as the old saying goes).
| CirrusWRX | 05-08-2006 01:54 PM |
cletus the slack-jawed yokel wins again...
(j/k - sort of... I know it's much more complex than that...)
(j/k - sort of... I know it's much more complex than that...)
| akuhner | 05-08-2006 10:44 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum] However, I hope the US rally community can see through the hyperbole and negative politics surrounding the core PR and safety issues at last months tarmac event and extract some solid lessons learned as they plan and execute future Rallies. [/QUOTE]
Nail is right, we can see right through the spin put out by the event organizers! If they learned anything they sure as heck weren't willing to admit it. :rolleyes: One lesson I hope the entire rally community learned is that cover-ups, spin and denail don't work. Transparency, honesty and self criticism might have worked a little better.
The "akuhner" post about the sign was me.
Don't get me wrong, I am still crazy enough that I'd enter Rally NY if it ever runs again, and I'm dissapointed that the Sept event was canceled (the dirt roads are easier to police). However, I'm very insulted by the spin about the difference between a civilian car on the stage getting there via a junction vs. coming out of their driveway - I'm just as dead either way, but the organizers seemed more interested in diverting attention from a risk they can't mitigate to a risk they dealt with fairly well.
Nail is right, we can see right through the spin put out by the event organizers! If they learned anything they sure as heck weren't willing to admit it. :rolleyes: One lesson I hope the entire rally community learned is that cover-ups, spin and denail don't work. Transparency, honesty and self criticism might have worked a little better.
The "akuhner" post about the sign was me.
Don't get me wrong, I am still crazy enough that I'd enter Rally NY if it ever runs again, and I'm dissapointed that the Sept event was canceled (the dirt roads are easier to police). However, I'm very insulted by the spin about the difference between a civilian car on the stage getting there via a junction vs. coming out of their driveway - I'm just as dead either way, but the organizers seemed more interested in diverting attention from a risk they can't mitigate to a risk they dealt with fairly well.
| REDrum | 05-08-2006 10:58 PM |
[QUOTE=rallynutdon] But does anyone believe that there places/locations where it is just plain old wrong to try to hold a rally?[/QUOTE]
IMO, If F1 can be held in Montreal and Miami, Rally can happen in Sullivan County NY. However, to execute it within an acceptable level of public safety risk, there needs to be an order of magnitude more organizational and PR infrastructure than RNY had to work with.
IMO, If F1 can be held in Montreal and Miami, Rally can happen in Sullivan County NY. However, to execute it within an acceptable level of public safety risk, there needs to be an order of magnitude more organizational and PR infrastructure than RNY had to work with.
| Howl | 05-09-2006 09:42 AM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]IMO, If F1 can be held in Montreal and Miami, Rally can happen in Sullivan County NY. However, to execute it within an acceptable level of public safety risk, there needs to be an order of magnitude more organizational and PR infrastructure than RNY had to work with.[/QUOTE]
The events in Montreal and Miami are not held on residential streets. They are held in areas where closing the streets in not going to completely shut down the city or block anybody in. Most rally organizers carefully choose routes where they will have the least impact on the local residents. If a resident IS going to be blocked in one of the organizers needs to meet with that person to make sure they are on-side with the event. If the event must use a road where a local resident is not happy then a marshal must be assigned to watch that driveway. If you have dozens of unhappy residents then you have a problem.
The only event in North America that I can think of that closes down large areas and blocks in a lot of people is Targa Newfoundland. If the people in Sullivan Co. NY, were as excited about RNY as people in Newfoundland are about Targa, and the organizers spent as much time working with the local community as the organizers of Targa do, then they might be able to pull it off.
The events in Montreal and Miami are not held on residential streets. They are held in areas where closing the streets in not going to completely shut down the city or block anybody in. Most rally organizers carefully choose routes where they will have the least impact on the local residents. If a resident IS going to be blocked in one of the organizers needs to meet with that person to make sure they are on-side with the event. If the event must use a road where a local resident is not happy then a marshal must be assigned to watch that driveway. If you have dozens of unhappy residents then you have a problem.
The only event in North America that I can think of that closes down large areas and blocks in a lot of people is Targa Newfoundland. If the people in Sullivan Co. NY, were as excited about RNY as people in Newfoundland are about Targa, and the organizers spent as much time working with the local community as the organizers of Targa do, then they might be able to pull it off.
| rallynutdon | 05-09-2006 12:52 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]IMO, If F1 can be held in Montreal and Miami, Rally can happen in Sullivan County NY. [/QUOTE]
No relavancy, what-so-ever. Have you ever been to a rally :huh:
No relavancy, what-so-ever. Have you ever been to a rally :huh:
| REDrum | 05-09-2006 01:08 PM |
[QUOTE=rallynutdon]No relavancy, what-so-ever.[/QUOTE]
Really...
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Homes & business on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.
Really...
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Homes & business on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.
| Mopho | 05-09-2006 02:08 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]Really...
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Home businees on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you can certainly look to those races as a business model (if rally were to ever to get big enough to generate money), but the logistics are completely different, which makes it difficult to compare to a rally.
For example: Grand Prix events are contained and usually held in urban/commercial areas of cities, you're not trapping people in or out of their homes for miles on end. They also install huge concrete barriers with 25+ ft fences on them, so that completely negates the need for manpower to make sure that no one wanders onto the course. They also fence in the outer parameter of the race and can control who gets in (i.e. those with tickets or credentials). They are paying people to work, so you don't have volunteers working the event just so they can take better pictures than if they spectated.
Since it is mostly businesses in the vicinity of the race and the race generates a HUGE amount of money to these business, it makes it hard for the locals to argue against it
[QUOTE]However, to execute it within an acceptable level of public safety risk, there needs to be an order of magnitude more organizational and PR infrastructure than RNY had to work with.[/QUOTE]
Well if you threw tons of money at it you could get that magnitude of organizational and PR infrastructure, but we all know that's not likely to happen (and why I found it ridiculous that RNY could even think of having a WRC).
Better models would be to look at the Targa NewFoundland, or rallies in Ireland, where most are tarmac and run through villages, and they do it without a buttload of money either
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Home businees on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you can certainly look to those races as a business model (if rally were to ever to get big enough to generate money), but the logistics are completely different, which makes it difficult to compare to a rally.
For example: Grand Prix events are contained and usually held in urban/commercial areas of cities, you're not trapping people in or out of their homes for miles on end. They also install huge concrete barriers with 25+ ft fences on them, so that completely negates the need for manpower to make sure that no one wanders onto the course. They also fence in the outer parameter of the race and can control who gets in (i.e. those with tickets or credentials). They are paying people to work, so you don't have volunteers working the event just so they can take better pictures than if they spectated.
Since it is mostly businesses in the vicinity of the race and the race generates a HUGE amount of money to these business, it makes it hard for the locals to argue against it
[QUOTE]However, to execute it within an acceptable level of public safety risk, there needs to be an order of magnitude more organizational and PR infrastructure than RNY had to work with.[/QUOTE]
Well if you threw tons of money at it you could get that magnitude of organizational and PR infrastructure, but we all know that's not likely to happen (and why I found it ridiculous that RNY could even think of having a WRC).
Better models would be to look at the Targa NewFoundland, or rallies in Ireland, where most are tarmac and run through villages, and they do it without a buttload of money either
| kfoote | 05-09-2006 02:22 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]IMO, If F1 can be held in Montreal and Miami, Rally can happen in Sullivan County NY. [/QUOTE]
Maybe I missed something, but to my knowledge, there has never been an F1 race in Miami. Dates?
Maybe I missed something, but to my knowledge, there has never been an F1 race in Miami. Dates?
| Mopho | 05-09-2006 02:25 PM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]Maybe I missed something, but to my knowledge, there has never been an F1 race in Miami. Dates?[/QUOTE]
He was generalizing those kinds of circuits
He was generalizing those kinds of circuits
| rallynutdon | 05-09-2006 02:37 PM |
Morgan beat me to it. But F1 (or any) street race is well contained with, let's say, a 2 mile square area. Rally is contained within an 20 or 30 or 40 mile square area. Is that a big difference or not?????????
| kfoote | 05-09-2006 03:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Mopho]He was generalizing those kinds of circuits[/QUOTE]
If it's a generalization about the potential success of street circuits, it was a very poor choice of locations, both Miami and Montreal.
Montreal is on an island in a public park, with no businesses or residences to shut down.
The most recent Miami street race (ALMS) was a one-off primarily because the streets were so bad. There are some really good pics of airborne cars from that race that are on the racing line at speed.
Better examples would have been Long Beach and Toronto.
If it's a generalization about the potential success of street circuits, it was a very poor choice of locations, both Miami and Montreal.
Montreal is on an island in a public park, with no businesses or residences to shut down.
The most recent Miami street race (ALMS) was a one-off primarily because the streets were so bad. There are some really good pics of airborne cars from that race that are on the racing line at speed.
Better examples would have been Long Beach and Toronto.
| Mopho | 05-09-2006 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE=kfoote]If it's a generalization about the potential success of street circuits, it was a very poor choice of locations, both Miami and Montreal.
Montreal is on an island in a public park, with no businesses or residences to shut down.
The most recent Miami street race (ALMS) was a one-off primarily because the streets were so bad. There are some really good pics of airborne cars from that race that are on the racing line at speed.
Better examples would have been Long Beach and Toronto.[/QUOTE]
Whatever, you're arguing semantics. It was clear that he was referring to street circuits in general.
Montreal is on an island in a public park, with no businesses or residences to shut down.
The most recent Miami street race (ALMS) was a one-off primarily because the streets were so bad. There are some really good pics of airborne cars from that race that are on the racing line at speed.
Better examples would have been Long Beach and Toronto.[/QUOTE]
Whatever, you're arguing semantics. It was clear that he was referring to street circuits in general.
| REDrum | 05-09-2006 04:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Mopho]He was generalizing those kinds of circuits[/QUOTE]
Actually, I attended one many many moons ago in Miami in the early 80s when I lived there. It was run downtown on and off Bricklin Ave, I think.
My point is not to compare F1 to Rally, but rather to illustrate how the level of resources available can make or break a motorsport event. I've seen both drag and road race events shut down due to lack of organization and high risk to attendees; but then bounce back once an overhauled event plan was developed.
Rally definitely has its unique logistical challenges, being spread out over long distance and all. And, yes, tarmac rally has unique constraints in that most paved roads tend to lead to where people live/work. However, in my opinion, the challenges to running tarmac rally in the US are a less geographic than organizational and public relations ones. I'd like to believe that had RNY had a more robust organization behind it, this thread would not exist. Rally is by far the most fun motorsport I've ever spent time in, and, seemingly, the most resource constrained.
Actually, I attended one many many moons ago in Miami in the early 80s when I lived there. It was run downtown on and off Bricklin Ave, I think.
My point is not to compare F1 to Rally, but rather to illustrate how the level of resources available can make or break a motorsport event. I've seen both drag and road race events shut down due to lack of organization and high risk to attendees; but then bounce back once an overhauled event plan was developed.
Rally definitely has its unique logistical challenges, being spread out over long distance and all. And, yes, tarmac rally has unique constraints in that most paved roads tend to lead to where people live/work. However, in my opinion, the challenges to running tarmac rally in the US are a less geographic than organizational and public relations ones. I'd like to believe that had RNY had a more robust organization behind it, this thread would not exist. Rally is by far the most fun motorsport I've ever spent time in, and, seemingly, the most resource constrained.
| RichardM | 05-09-2006 04:40 PM |
To quote Morgan: "They are paying people to work, so you don't have volunteers working the event just so they can take better pictures than if they spectated."
Never worked one of those races have you? While it is true the law officers are getting paid, most of the crowd control people are volunteer. And all the corner workers.
Richard
Never worked one of those races have you? While it is true the law officers are getting paid, most of the crowd control people are volunteer. And all the corner workers.
Richard
| Mopho | 05-09-2006 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE=RichardM]
Never worked one of those races have you? While it is true the law officers are getting paid, most of the crowd control people are volunteer. And all the corner workers.
Richard[/QUOTE]
No, have you?
Regardless, fact remains that none of those volunteers are responsible for keeping local cars, people off the course, or safe from getting hit by a car since there are barriers, Law enforcement or hired security personnel there. At these events there is so many of security/ law officials within close proximity that any volunteer is not going to get put into a position of authority if there is a problem.
This is untrue of rally and in many cases it is civilians or even kids that have to deal with unruly spectators or locals who insist on driving on the stage. I have had to physically block a locals car once at a rally.
In rally, volunteers are bated by being told the best way to spectate a rally is to work, so then you end up with people who would rather spectate than work. So many times I have seen marshals ignoring their duties to watch the rally and take pictures
I know corner workers don't get paid, but they never get paid and are part of a "club" usually, but I assume the people working the gates are getting paid and all the track events I have been to (closed circuits) have a staff
Additionally, the main organizers and promoters generally make a LOT of money off the event, which is incentive to make the event popular and to go smoothly and allows it to be a full time job. Not true of rally (here at least).
Never worked one of those races have you? While it is true the law officers are getting paid, most of the crowd control people are volunteer. And all the corner workers.
Richard[/QUOTE]
No, have you?
Regardless, fact remains that none of those volunteers are responsible for keeping local cars, people off the course, or safe from getting hit by a car since there are barriers, Law enforcement or hired security personnel there. At these events there is so many of security/ law officials within close proximity that any volunteer is not going to get put into a position of authority if there is a problem.
This is untrue of rally and in many cases it is civilians or even kids that have to deal with unruly spectators or locals who insist on driving on the stage. I have had to physically block a locals car once at a rally.
In rally, volunteers are bated by being told the best way to spectate a rally is to work, so then you end up with people who would rather spectate than work. So many times I have seen marshals ignoring their duties to watch the rally and take pictures
I know corner workers don't get paid, but they never get paid and are part of a "club" usually, but I assume the people working the gates are getting paid and all the track events I have been to (closed circuits) have a staff
Additionally, the main organizers and promoters generally make a LOT of money off the event, which is incentive to make the event popular and to go smoothly and allows it to be a full time job. Not true of rally (here at least).
| Mopho | 05-09-2006 06:54 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]Actually, I attended one many many moons ago in Miami in the early 80s when I lived there. It was run downtown on and off Bricklin Ave, I think.[/QUOTE]
Forgot that you are old [IMG]http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/poke.gif[/IMG]
[SIZE=1]I am not that far behind you[/SIZE]
Forgot that you are old [IMG]http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/poke.gif[/IMG]
[SIZE=1]I am not that far behind you[/SIZE]
| RichardM | 05-09-2006 07:03 PM |
[QUOTE=Mopho]No, have you?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. Very many ranging from the 1984 F1 here in Dallas to CART events in Portland. The only point I was trying to make is that even at a NASCAR event, the people you see standing along the fence with their backs to the track telling spectators to keep clear of the fence while racing is going are volunteers. Usually they are members of a civic group that gets a donation from the track. By the way, this is also true of the hot dog stand people at Texas Stadium during a Cowboys game.
The one big advantage all these people have over a rally marshall is that if a drunk starts trouble, there is usually a cop close by. Out in the woods, the nearest cop can be an hour or more away.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. Very many ranging from the 1984 F1 here in Dallas to CART events in Portland. The only point I was trying to make is that even at a NASCAR event, the people you see standing along the fence with their backs to the track telling spectators to keep clear of the fence while racing is going are volunteers. Usually they are members of a civic group that gets a donation from the track. By the way, this is also true of the hot dog stand people at Texas Stadium during a Cowboys game.
The one big advantage all these people have over a rally marshall is that if a drunk starts trouble, there is usually a cop close by. Out in the woods, the nearest cop can be an hour or more away.
| RichardM | 05-09-2006 07:09 PM |
To continue on the volunteer theme, at big time bicycle tours like the MS150 just held here in the Dallas area, most of the workers at the rest stops and the communication people along the course are also volunteers. One way we get volunteer medical and communication people for the Rallye de Paris is to volunteer for other events that occur in Paris. Mostly we work the Tour de Paris bicycle rally by handling logistics. This not only keeps us in good standing with medical and comm people but also the public in general.
| Pete 97 GS-T | 05-09-2006 09:54 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum]Really...
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Homes & business on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.[/QUOTE]
I haven't read beyond this post, but with F1, they do have barricades and jersey barriers, correct? The course is far less than 20-30 miles in length. Put 100 RNY workers on an F1 course and all is ok. Put 100 RNY workers on 20-30 miles and it gets sparce (or sparse. Been drinking tonite :))
-Car race
-Closed public tarmac roads
-Spectators
-Risk from injury
-Homes & business on race course
-Public perception/support
-Sponsors
Sucess of any motorsport comes from its leaders ability to organize and mobilize; elements RNY was lean on. F1 is the most popular motorsport in the world, so organizers have the resources to manage what it takes to run in populated ares that have a higher risk than on a dedicated track.[/QUOTE]
I haven't read beyond this post, but with F1, they do have barricades and jersey barriers, correct? The course is far less than 20-30 miles in length. Put 100 RNY workers on an F1 course and all is ok. Put 100 RNY workers on 20-30 miles and it gets sparce (or sparse. Been drinking tonite :))
| AlexP | 05-09-2006 10:06 PM |
[QUOTE=REDrum] It was run downtown on and off Bricklin Ave, I think.
[/QUOTE]
How about [I]Brickell[/I] Ave? Bricklin are cars made in Canada that are yellow and orange.
[IMG]http://www.bobsclassics.com/sold/pic017.jpg[/IMG]
:lol:
Anyhoo, I think the recent street circuits were up on Biscayne Blvd, just north of the bayside shopping center.
[/QUOTE]
How about [I]Brickell[/I] Ave? Bricklin are cars made in Canada that are yellow and orange.
[IMG]http://www.bobsclassics.com/sold/pic017.jpg[/IMG]
:lol:
Anyhoo, I think the recent street circuits were up on Biscayne Blvd, just north of the bayside shopping center.
| Bort | 05-11-2006 01:47 PM |
Looks like RNY will continue w/o NASA
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/view.asp?StoryID=714[/url]
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/view.asp?StoryID=714[/url]
| Ice racer | 07-31-2006 10:07 PM |
[QUOTE=Bort]Looks like RNY will continue w/o NASA
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/view.asp?StoryID=714[/url][/QUOTE] Yep,
and I'll be there [i]working[/i] the event just like I have for the last five years. :)
You guys want to see rallying in the northeast continue? Come on out and help us. Sign up is [URL=http://www.rallynewyork.com/][b]HERE[/b][/URL].
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/view.asp?StoryID=714[/url][/QUOTE] Yep,
and I'll be there [i]working[/i] the event just like I have for the last five years. :)
You guys want to see rallying in the northeast continue? Come on out and help us. Sign up is [URL=http://www.rallynewyork.com/][b]HERE[/b][/URL].
| XenoWolf | 08-01-2006 06:43 AM |
[QUOTE=Ice racer]Yep,
and I'll be there [i]working[/i] the event just like I have for the last five years. :)
You guys want to see rallying in the northeast continue? Come on out and help us. Sign up is [URL=http://www.rallynewyork.com/][b]HERE[/b][/URL].[/QUOTE]
I'm already registered, and hoping that IRNY goes a little bit better than RNY USA did. I'm also hoping that there is a decent field, considering how many competitors got pissed of during the last event.
and I'll be there [i]working[/i] the event just like I have for the last five years. :)
You guys want to see rallying in the northeast continue? Come on out and help us. Sign up is [URL=http://www.rallynewyork.com/][b]HERE[/b][/URL].[/QUOTE]
I'm already registered, and hoping that IRNY goes a little bit better than RNY USA did. I'm also hoping that there is a decent field, considering how many competitors got pissed of during the last event.
| akuhner | 08-01-2006 11:20 PM |
I'm planning on entering, but I'm also planning on asking for proof of insurance!
| REDrum | 08-02-2006 08:44 AM |
If we can get our rolly-polly whip beaten back into shape we'll be there.
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