| kdawg | 01-31-2003 08:17 PM |
Racing Insurance
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Hey everyone,
I went to my first Autox last week and I had the greatest time. I want to keep going back, but I have questions about what happens when/if (hopefully not) things go wrong. Who covers the damages? Is there special insurance we should purchase for racing?
I went to my first Autox last week and I had the greatest time. I want to keep going back, but I have questions about what happens when/if (hopefully not) things go wrong. Who covers the damages? Is there special insurance we should purchase for racing?
| HoRo1 | 01-31-2003 08:48 PM |
You cover the damages. It is a timed competitive event. Most (but maybe not all) insurance is invalidated in timed events.
How much damage can you do hitting a cone?:lol:
How much damage can you do hitting a cone?:lol:
| jeffg | 01-31-2003 09:23 PM |
Having seen an accident in our region, I think it would be safe to say that your insurance will cover any damage you do to your car or others. Since autocross is not head to head "racing" most insurance companies will not complain.
J
J
| kdawg | 01-31-2003 09:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by HoRo1 [/i]
[B]You cover the damages. It is a timed competitive event. Most (but maybe not all) insurance is invalidated in timed events.
How much damage can you do hitting a cone?:lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Give me a break. I'll put up a video for you on Sunday. Be sure to check back.
EDIT: Here is the video I promised.
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url]
[B]You cover the damages. It is a timed competitive event. Most (but maybe not all) insurance is invalidated in timed events.
How much damage can you do hitting a cone?:lol: [/B][/QUOTE]
Give me a break. I'll put up a video for you on Sunday. Be sure to check back.
EDIT: Here is the video I promised.
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url]
| kdawg | 01-31-2003 09:41 PM |
So there is no special insurance for events? I think road racers have special insurance.
| Robin2 | 02-01-2003 12:15 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
[B]So there is no special insurance for events? I think road racers have special insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nope... Even if there was any, the price would be high....
I wouldn't worry too much about Solo2 (AutoX) events.... it's pretty safe but things can happen....
The organizers are insured (should be) with usually a liability insurance.... In Canada, we mainly deal with ASN Canada (same firm that insure CART and F1 events in Canada).
I think the only time insurance companies would cover anything under any motorsport event would be a "driving school"... but I'd check with them to see what's considered a "school" or how to find an accredited school by their standards...
Back to your main question: The main insurance provider is your pocket book.
Robin
[B]So there is no special insurance for events? I think road racers have special insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nope... Even if there was any, the price would be high....
I wouldn't worry too much about Solo2 (AutoX) events.... it's pretty safe but things can happen....
The organizers are insured (should be) with usually a liability insurance.... In Canada, we mainly deal with ASN Canada (same firm that insure CART and F1 events in Canada).
I think the only time insurance companies would cover anything under any motorsport event would be a "driving school"... but I'd check with them to see what's considered a "school" or how to find an accredited school by their standards...
Back to your main question: The main insurance provider is your pocket book.
Robin
| Brett555 | 02-01-2003 09:23 AM |
This issue has come up a lot lately in my local club. Basically, don't expect your insurance provider to cover damage to your car incurred at an autocross event. In fact, your policy may even state that timed events are not covered at all.
There are even stories of one of the big insurance companies actually dropping customers who they find out participate in autocross events. Personally, I will never tell my insurance provider that I autocross, and if I do get in an accident, my wallet will fund the repairs.
Autocross is easily one of the safest forms of motorsports, so it really amazes me that most insurance providers do not cover damage to our cars. Not only is it safe, but it makes us better drivers, so I'm at a loss for why its not covered...the only thing I can figure out is that they really don't know what it is, and choose to lump it in with wheel to wheel racing, and therefore think it is a "risky" activity.
There are even stories of one of the big insurance companies actually dropping customers who they find out participate in autocross events. Personally, I will never tell my insurance provider that I autocross, and if I do get in an accident, my wallet will fund the repairs.
Autocross is easily one of the safest forms of motorsports, so it really amazes me that most insurance providers do not cover damage to our cars. Not only is it safe, but it makes us better drivers, so I'm at a loss for why its not covered...the only thing I can figure out is that they really don't know what it is, and choose to lump it in with wheel to wheel racing, and therefore think it is a "risky" activity.
| kdawg | 02-01-2003 02:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by [email][email�protected][/email] [/i]
[B]my wallet will fund the repairs.
[/B][/QUOTE]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident.
[B]my wallet will fund the repairs.
[/B][/QUOTE]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident.
| Brett555 | 02-01-2003 04:14 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
[B]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm talking about damaging your car while autocrossing, that's what your own personal car insurance will NOT cover. Injuries to people at events is covered by the SCCA's insurance, atleast with the 2 clubs I race with. A small amount of everyones entry fee goes towards this insurance.
[B]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm talking about damaging your car while autocrossing, that's what your own personal car insurance will NOT cover. Injuries to people at events is covered by the SCCA's insurance, atleast with the 2 clubs I race with. A small amount of everyones entry fee goes towards this insurance.
| Brett555 | 02-01-2003 04:25 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
[B]So there is no special insurance for events? I think road racers have special insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
I saw an ad in GRM for "drivers education insurance" offered through American Collectors Insurance and emailed them about it. I specifically contacted them to see if autocross events would be covered under this policy. I explained to them what autocross is and how it differs from these drivers education events they are covering. They said that at this time, autocross is NOT covered under their policy, only because it is considered a timed event. Their policy will cover you at HPDE's, lapping days, etc. though.
After explaining to them the differences between autocrosses and HPDE's, and commenting on how much safer I thought autocross events were, the said they would pass the info on up the chain of command. I wouldn't hold your breath on it, but who knows, maybe they'd eventually cover autocrosses. For my car, it was only going to be about $225 year, which is not bad at all if you do a lot of autocrossing and high speed track driving.
More info here: [url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm[/url]
[B]So there is no special insurance for events? I think road racers have special insurance. [/B][/QUOTE]
I saw an ad in GRM for "drivers education insurance" offered through American Collectors Insurance and emailed them about it. I specifically contacted them to see if autocross events would be covered under this policy. I explained to them what autocross is and how it differs from these drivers education events they are covering. They said that at this time, autocross is NOT covered under their policy, only because it is considered a timed event. Their policy will cover you at HPDE's, lapping days, etc. though.
After explaining to them the differences between autocrosses and HPDE's, and commenting on how much safer I thought autocross events were, the said they would pass the info on up the chain of command. I wouldn't hold your breath on it, but who knows, maybe they'd eventually cover autocrosses. For my car, it was only going to be about $225 year, which is not bad at all if you do a lot of autocrossing and high speed track driving.
More info here: [url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm[/url]
| IXLR8 | 02-01-2003 04:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Robin2 [/i]
[B]
Nope... Even if there was any, the price would be high....
[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually there is both liability and "collision" coverage readily available for motorsports from a number underwriters.
While I'm no expert on the details of liability coverage, check with the sanctioning group that organizes the event to find out specifics and limits of the coverage, but I guarantee between them and the track, they have some.
As for coverage of damage to your own vehicle during a competion, it can be had as a separate policy... Robin2 is right about one thing, the price. It is quite high (one writer I know of starts premiums at 800 -1000/year) with substantial deductables ($1500 range) which is why most racers don't carry any, BUT, it is available and used most often when renting an expensive ride.
If you want more info and rates, check the motorsports mags (Like GRM) for ads or do a google search... it's out there.
Ooops, Posted this the same time as SoloRacer, so "what he said" and then some.
[B]
Nope... Even if there was any, the price would be high....
[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually there is both liability and "collision" coverage readily available for motorsports from a number underwriters.
While I'm no expert on the details of liability coverage, check with the sanctioning group that organizes the event to find out specifics and limits of the coverage, but I guarantee between them and the track, they have some.
As for coverage of damage to your own vehicle during a competion, it can be had as a separate policy... Robin2 is right about one thing, the price. It is quite high (one writer I know of starts premiums at 800 -1000/year) with substantial deductables ($1500 range) which is why most racers don't carry any, BUT, it is available and used most often when renting an expensive ride.
If you want more info and rates, check the motorsports mags (Like GRM) for ads or do a google search... it's out there.
Ooops, Posted this the same time as SoloRacer, so "what he said" and then some.
| rupertberr | 02-01-2003 04:42 PM |
What the big guys pay.
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I was at a test session at PIR many, many years ago with Indy Regency Racing. They had a brand new CART IndyCar out of the box that Arie Luyendyk was going to test. Former IndyCar driver Steve Chassey was the insurance agent. Before the car turned a wheel the owner wrote out a check for $250,000 for insurance on the car with a $100,000 deductable-if I remember my figures correctly. By the end of the day Steve Chassey wrote out a check for about $700,000 after the deductable because the car got totalled during the test session. Suspension failure I believe.
Last year I worked for a LMP675 team. I believe the insurance was similar. $300,000 fee, $100,000 deductable on a $1,000,000 car. You may remember it burned to the ground just after midnight at LeMans.
Thought you would like to know what real racing insurance costs.
Last year I worked for a LMP675 team. I believe the insurance was similar. $300,000 fee, $100,000 deductable on a $1,000,000 car. You may remember it burned to the ground just after midnight at LeMans.
Thought you would like to know what real racing insurance costs.
| IXLR8 | 02-01-2003 06:16 PM |
Re: What the big guys pay.
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rupertberr [/i]
[B]Thought you would like to know what real racing insurance costs. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks, very helpful...
[B]Thought you would like to know what real racing insurance costs. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks, very helpful...
| wrxmontao!! | 02-01-2003 06:34 PM |
This is why I love this place, I was thinking about the same thing about a week ago.......But I was more concern about track days than autocross. The only reason I don't take my car to the track right now is because I don't have the money to fix in case of a crash.
| fengshui-fu | 02-01-2003 06:43 PM |
My experience with this: a fellow autoXer had a MR2 spyder that they competed with and that managed to crash into one of the few large parking low light posts in the parking lot where it was being held. They said that they told the insurance company that they were driving in a parking lot, slipped on water, spun out, and the rear of the car hit the post. Not sure if this helps, but they also said thay driving schools ARE usually covered and that autoX is basically a driving school since the professionals there can be considered "instructors."
hope it was helpful
chris
hope it was helpful
chris
| Robin2 | 02-01-2003 08:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
[B]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know in the states, but when I organized Rallyx events, we, the organizers, had $8 million in liability coverage.... If anything happened such as a competitor hit a spectator or crashed into our rental facility, it would be covered. Nothing was covered in the competitor cars though...
Anything that went wrong would be filled out in a report (which never happended!).... but keep in mind the liability insurance is mainly protecting the organizers....
You should contact your local club who sets up the Autox events and see what is their coverage. I really doubt SCCA permits them to run an event without any insurance.
Robin
[B]
But bodily injury to us or others can go into hundreds of thousands. This is a very big risk to take. I am surprised there's no insurance. For example, if you go sky diving, you can purchase temporary health insurance for that jump so if something happens you are covered because your regular insurance won't cover it. Ofcourse, sky diving is much more dangerous than an autox, but the consequences could be similar incase of an accident. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know in the states, but when I organized Rallyx events, we, the organizers, had $8 million in liability coverage.... If anything happened such as a competitor hit a spectator or crashed into our rental facility, it would be covered. Nothing was covered in the competitor cars though...
Anything that went wrong would be filled out in a report (which never happended!).... but keep in mind the liability insurance is mainly protecting the organizers....
You should contact your local club who sets up the Autox events and see what is their coverage. I really doubt SCCA permits them to run an event without any insurance.
Robin
| JohnW | 02-02-2003 01:33 AM |
[url]http://www.americancollectorsins.com/driversed.htm[/url]
1.5% of value is annual premium.
20% deduectible
Basically, it is really only used if you total your car in a HPDE event.
I'm going to get it when I start tracking my car again. But, it definitely isn't useful for autox.
1.5% of value is annual premium.
20% deduectible
Basically, it is really only used if you total your car in a HPDE event.
I'm going to get it when I start tracking my car again. But, it definitely isn't useful for autox.
| kdawg | 02-02-2003 01:28 PM |
So I guess there is no special insurance for autoxing. But the event organizer's insurance will cover bodily harm for anyone at that event. Unfortunately, their insurance won't cover the cars that are damaged. I'll definitely get insurance if I go to a HPDE. Thanks for the information.
On a side note:
Here's a good business idea for any insurance company to expand into. I definitely won't mind paying extra 20-40 dollars for a piece of mind. Since your car is only on the track around 90 seconds (here in the bay area), it shouldn't be too expensive.
Here's the video for [B]Horo1[/B] of what can go wrong in an autox
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url]
On a side note:
Here's a good business idea for any insurance company to expand into. I definitely won't mind paying extra 20-40 dollars for a piece of mind. Since your car is only on the track around 90 seconds (here in the bay area), it shouldn't be too expensive.
Here's the video for [B]Horo1[/B] of what can go wrong in an autox
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url]
| Brett555 | 02-02-2003 02:31 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
On a side note:
Here's a good business idea for any insurance company to expand into. I definitely won't mind paying extra 20-40 dollars for a piece of mind. Since your car is only on the track around 90 seconds (here in the bay area), it shouldn't be too expensive.
[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly what I told American Collectors Insurance when I talked to them. I couldn't figure out why they would insure a relatively risky activity like HPDE's, but not insure something like autocross, which is much less risky IMHO. Like I stated earlier, I don't think they actually know what autocross is, and since its timed, they group it with other forms of racing, that are indeed risky.
On a side note:
Here's a good business idea for any insurance company to expand into. I definitely won't mind paying extra 20-40 dollars for a piece of mind. Since your car is only on the track around 90 seconds (here in the bay area), it shouldn't be too expensive.
[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly what I told American Collectors Insurance when I talked to them. I couldn't figure out why they would insure a relatively risky activity like HPDE's, but not insure something like autocross, which is much less risky IMHO. Like I stated earlier, I don't think they actually know what autocross is, and since its timed, they group it with other forms of racing, that are indeed risky.
| wrxmontao!! | 02-02-2003 02:37 PM |
[QUOTE]Here's the video for Horo1 of what can go wrong in an autox[/QUOTE]
:eek: WOW:eek: do you know the people in the video? Were they ok?
:eek: WOW:eek: do you know the people in the video? Were they ok?
| ellisnc | 02-02-2003 02:44 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kdawg [/i]
[B]Here's the video for [B]Horo1[/B] of what can go wrong in an autox
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
The event organizers are partially to blame for that. There should not be anyone stationed on the outside of a turn like that.
Also I won't start going into what the driver did wrong there, but just a quick word of advice for anyone reading this thread that is a fairly inexperienced driver. If your car starts to come around like that please please have in your mind that the first thing you DO NOT want to do is overcorrect and drop throttle at the same time. As shown there the only thing it will do is toss you at high speed to the outside of the turn. In the WRX since power oversteer is not a problem, if you get seriously crossed up in a slalom (of which for this reason I'm not a big fan of where there are inexperienced autocrossers) just let the car spin and lock the brakes.
You can drive hard at auto-x, there just has to be calculated risks involved. At one event I was at the ORGANIZER outbraked himself going down a hill into a sharp right hander and understeered right into a curbed median. If anyone should know better it should be him. Just please be careful and try to see where it's okay to take some chances and where it's not.
[B]Here's the video for [B]Horo1[/B] of what can go wrong in an autox
[url]http://jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu/~kp13/INSTRUCT.mpeg[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
The event organizers are partially to blame for that. There should not be anyone stationed on the outside of a turn like that.
Also I won't start going into what the driver did wrong there, but just a quick word of advice for anyone reading this thread that is a fairly inexperienced driver. If your car starts to come around like that please please have in your mind that the first thing you DO NOT want to do is overcorrect and drop throttle at the same time. As shown there the only thing it will do is toss you at high speed to the outside of the turn. In the WRX since power oversteer is not a problem, if you get seriously crossed up in a slalom (of which for this reason I'm not a big fan of where there are inexperienced autocrossers) just let the car spin and lock the brakes.
You can drive hard at auto-x, there just has to be calculated risks involved. At one event I was at the ORGANIZER outbraked himself going down a hill into a sharp right hander and understeered right into a curbed median. If anyone should know better it should be him. Just please be careful and try to see where it's okay to take some chances and where it's not.
| kdawg | 02-02-2003 04:33 PM |
No, I don't know the people. I found the video on the internet. I think they probably made it without too many injuries.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrxmontao!! [/i]
[B]
:eek: WOW:eek: do you know the people in the video? Were they ok? [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wrxmontao!! [/i]
[B]
:eek: WOW:eek: do you know the people in the video? Were they ok? [/B][/QUOTE]
| Robin2 | 02-02-2003 09:15 PM |
That's one vid I've seen before... there's another one where the car flips....
Like I mentionned before, you should talk to your local club and ask questions.... if you feel the event isn't safe or you have any concerns, you should voice your issues....
Robin
Like I mentionned before, you should talk to your local club and ask questions.... if you feel the event isn't safe or you have any concerns, you should voice your issues....
Robin
| zoomfactor | 02-03-2003 10:36 AM |
Another consideration - Life Insurance
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Not to be a pessimist but... you should also consider your life insurance. Many reputable life insurance companies have an exclusion for motorsports, so it is important that you understand the coverages of your policy, and the coverages of the sanctioning body.
It is an important consideration if you are the primary
source of income for your family.
It is an important consideration if you are the primary
source of income for your family.
| Jack | 02-03-2003 01:43 PM |
Read Your Policy!
Massachusetts companies all rewrote the wording several years ago after some yahoo wrecked his Porsche at the track, got it fixed and wrecked it again. They wouldn't have looked except he went after his modifications from the insurance company the second time. Now, if you read Mass policies, they have technically covered just about anything more than a car show n' shine. TSD rallys, fun rallys etc...are not covered because they are a timed event. They have specific wording that excludes coverage in driver's schools since they used to only state "timed events". You're on your own here. Every state is different. Read your policy.
jack
Massachusetts companies all rewrote the wording several years ago after some yahoo wrecked his Porsche at the track, got it fixed and wrecked it again. They wouldn't have looked except he went after his modifications from the insurance company the second time. Now, if you read Mass policies, they have technically covered just about anything more than a car show n' shine. TSD rallys, fun rallys etc...are not covered because they are a timed event. They have specific wording that excludes coverage in driver's schools since they used to only state "timed events". You're on your own here. Every state is different. Read your policy.
jack
| bgsntth | 02-03-2003 02:23 PM |
As I stated in an earlier post, my insurance company no longer covers DE/TDs, so I applied to American Collectors. There was some difficulty, as they usually give only coverage to German Iron worth a minimum of $35K. So there was a question if they would cover my lowly wagon, but they cashed the check I sent with the application, so I guess I'm covered.(?) Hopefully something is in the mail as we speak.
I'm not interested in timed-events or competition, just a safe environment to break the usual commute rut and keep my HP driving skills sharp. American Collectors seemed very knowledgeable and competent. They were very interested in how many DE/TD's I've done, how many years I've been doing these events, my on-track history, and what group I drive in.
I usually keep a little in reserve and have not even spun in over 50 events, but most of my "moments" have been the result of someone else dumping fluid (e.g., oil, coolant) or being a knucklehead (passing in a no-passing zone). It is for this reason that I have DE/TD coverage.
I'm not interested in timed-events or competition, just a safe environment to break the usual commute rut and keep my HP driving skills sharp. American Collectors seemed very knowledgeable and competent. They were very interested in how many DE/TD's I've done, how many years I've been doing these events, my on-track history, and what group I drive in.
I usually keep a little in reserve and have not even spun in over 50 events, but most of my "moments" have been the result of someone else dumping fluid (e.g., oil, coolant) or being a knucklehead (passing in a no-passing zone). It is for this reason that I have DE/TD coverage.
| GarySheehan | 02-03-2003 02:54 PM |
Insurance for track days and autocross will eventually be broken out from every day driving and become too expensive to purchase. There is risk involved and the insurance companies don't want to take that risk.
Road racing insurance is very expensive. When I was testing in a Barber Dodge Pro car at Sebring, the insurance was $416/DAY. That was back in 1999. That insurance (issued by Conseco Risk Management) covered $70,000 with a $5,000 deductible. Over 4 days of testing, I spent $1,664 in insurance. I'm glad I did, because during the 4th day, I stuffed the car into the tire barrier in Turn 1. So I had to write out a check for $5,000 for the deductible. That's still better than writing a check out for the full $17,000 worth of damage it did to the car.
Afterwards, they plugged me into another car. With an additional deductible of $5,000 haning over my head.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Road racing insurance is very expensive. When I was testing in a Barber Dodge Pro car at Sebring, the insurance was $416/DAY. That was back in 1999. That insurance (issued by Conseco Risk Management) covered $70,000 with a $5,000 deductible. Over 4 days of testing, I spent $1,664 in insurance. I'm glad I did, because during the 4th day, I stuffed the car into the tire barrier in Turn 1. So I had to write out a check for $5,000 for the deductible. That's still better than writing a check out for the full $17,000 worth of damage it did to the car.
Afterwards, they plugged me into another car. With an additional deductible of $5,000 haning over my head.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Jaxx | 02-03-2003 03:13 PM |
i was the accident that jeff spoke about above
my insurance covered it ..and yes my rates went up .. but no squabbeling what so ever (shrug)
i was sure to say "not racing .. driver education"
FWIW it was partial the fault of the organisers .. but it was not worth persuing
[img]http://206.207.78.213/images/browseable/varoom/Mvc01178a.jpg[/img]
[img]http://206.207.78.213/images/browseable/varoom/Mvc01180a.jpg[/img]
my insurance covered it ..and yes my rates went up .. but no squabbeling what so ever (shrug)
i was sure to say "not racing .. driver education"
FWIW it was partial the fault of the organisers .. but it was not worth persuing
[img]http://206.207.78.213/images/browseable/varoom/Mvc01178a.jpg[/img]
[img]http://206.207.78.213/images/browseable/varoom/Mvc01180a.jpg[/img]
| Subayai WRX | 02-04-2003 02:05 AM |
Lets face it, most insurance companies do not covered "timed racing events", and this would include Solo II. But since most of these events occur in parking lots, you really are not going to run into any major damage (the video from above was from a non-SCCA sanctioned event, and therefore did not follow course and safety rules required by the SCCA for Solo II).
I have seen a couple of accidents, one in Solo II, and one from a track day. First the Solo II accident was a car simply rolled into a concrete barrier, the driver forgot to put his foot on the brake after spinning out and allowed the car to roll backwards for about 2 seconds until he hit the barrier. It left one of those pushed in rubber bumper corners look. Insurance company answer, "well I was backing out and accidently hit the wall", Comprehensive coverage takes car of it (never mentioning autocross), case closed.
Second, an off course excursion, and roll over. With the assistance of a helpfull towing company, the insurance company answer: "I was driving out in the desert and the lost control, tire blew, etc."
Now both of these are single car accidents. Which is usually the case with time trial events. If you collide with another car, then that is another story.
I have seen a couple of accidents, one in Solo II, and one from a track day. First the Solo II accident was a car simply rolled into a concrete barrier, the driver forgot to put his foot on the brake after spinning out and allowed the car to roll backwards for about 2 seconds until he hit the barrier. It left one of those pushed in rubber bumper corners look. Insurance company answer, "well I was backing out and accidently hit the wall", Comprehensive coverage takes car of it (never mentioning autocross), case closed.
Second, an off course excursion, and roll over. With the assistance of a helpfull towing company, the insurance company answer: "I was driving out in the desert and the lost control, tire blew, etc."
Now both of these are single car accidents. Which is usually the case with time trial events. If you collide with another car, then that is another story.
| fengshui-fu | 02-04-2003 10:42 AM |
Yeah, as long as you don't mention that it was a competitive event, then insurance will just pick it up and say good bye to your deductible ammount and hello to a higher premium. But it sure beats being out $20K+.
chris
chris
| bgsntth | 02-04-2003 12:03 PM |
Be careful though, insurance companies are getting much more aggressive in regards to investigating these types of accidents. Some even go so far as to call the local race tracks and ask if the claimant was there the day of the claim. Remember you sign the track waiver when you arrive, so they know who is there on what days. Fraud sucks......
| fengshui-fu | 02-04-2003 12:10 PM |
Not sure how it would be fraud if you told them the truth: namely that you were driving in a parking lot, spun out, and hit something. If crashed your car while drifting in snow on a public road for fun, wouldnt you claim it? Same with drive it spirited in a parking lot.
chris
chris
| dknv | 02-04-2003 08:52 PM |
accident doesn't have to be on track
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Consider this scenario: you're waiting in grid, and the driver in front of you backs into you. $1000+ to replace the bumper. His vehicle is uninsured. Guess who picks up the tab?
(The driver in error refused to pay for repair. His response was that we all signed the waiver, which has verbiage preventing a claim by the injured party against other drivers.)
This really happened last year.
In general, autocross organizers have medical insurance for bodily injury. I believe in SCCA, the amount they will cover is lower if you are not a member.
(The driver in error refused to pay for repair. His response was that we all signed the waiver, which has verbiage preventing a claim by the injured party against other drivers.)
This really happened last year.
In general, autocross organizers have medical insurance for bodily injury. I believe in SCCA, the amount they will cover is lower if you are not a member.
| fengshui-fu | 02-05-2003 09:21 AM |
Never thought about that. I guess if the guy refuses to pay for the bumper he damaged you just take a tire iron to his car for retribution and say, "Hey, we all signed the waiver. My arm holding this tire iron slipped into your windshield." :lol:
chris
chris
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