| evom024 | 07-18-2006 12:24 AM |
Rally springs???
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Anyone know the best setup for anykind of rally? Something reasonably priced (under 3000 ). Coilovers?
| fliz | 07-18-2006 08:17 AM |
Coilovers are your best bet:
HotBits, DMS 50 (more than 3K), Tein HG (not sure on availability)
Alternatively, you could use KYB AGX and some stiffer springs (or GC coilover sleeves)
HotBits, DMS 50 (more than 3K), Tein HG (not sure on availability)
Alternatively, you could use KYB AGX and some stiffer springs (or GC coilover sleeves)
| greg donovan | 07-18-2006 08:54 AM |
if it is just going to be rallycross i suggest the AGX/Ground Control coil over conversion kit. you can get AGX for around 400 and i think the GC sleeve kit is under 500.
| bjorn240 | 07-18-2006 08:56 AM |
The [U]best[/U] setup for rally isn't reasonably priced.
For around $3000, fliz covered your options pretty well.
The RS&SP 55-51 setup for Subaru might be worth looking at too. The standard setup for that is $4995. Hydraulic bumpstops are an extra $1000. It's not �hlins, but it's quite good.
- Christian
For around $3000, fliz covered your options pretty well.
The RS&SP 55-51 setup for Subaru might be worth looking at too. The standard setup for that is $4995. Hydraulic bumpstops are an extra $1000. It's not �hlins, but it's quite good.
- Christian
| greg donovan | 07-18-2006 09:01 AM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]The [U]best[/U] setup for rally isn't reasonably priced.
For around $3000, fliz covered your options pretty well.
The RS&SP 55-51 setup for Subaru might be worth looking at too. The standard setup for that is $4995. Hydraulic bumpstops are an extra $1000. It's not �hlins, but it's quite good.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
are those the struts that are on the wall of the truck while the VSC crew is looking for a bandaid for you?
For around $3000, fliz covered your options pretty well.
The RS&SP 55-51 setup for Subaru might be worth looking at too. The standard setup for that is $4995. Hydraulic bumpstops are an extra $1000. It's not �hlins, but it's quite good.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
are those the struts that are on the wall of the truck while the VSC crew is looking for a bandaid for you?
| bjorn240 | 07-18-2006 09:34 AM |
Looks like it.
We ran RS&SP last year at Ojibwe and Cog (and maybe a few other events). This year, we're running �hlins, but it looks like those were spares for Sno*Drift.
- Christian
We ran RS&SP last year at Ojibwe and Cog (and maybe a few other events). This year, we're running �hlins, but it looks like those were spares for Sno*Drift.
- Christian
| OBShahn | 07-18-2006 11:16 AM |
There are a handful of teams running RS&SPs now.
Those that I talked with LOVE them over the DMS50s they used to run...
Those that I talked with LOVE them over the DMS50s they used to run...
| AndyRoo | 07-18-2006 12:17 PM |
KW might have a rally competition damper around 3k. Call Racecomp.
- Andrew
- Andrew
| Fred | 07-18-2006 12:52 PM |
Tein HG is a great all-purpose rally suspension for under $3000.
| '74Stratos | 07-19-2006 01:41 PM |
Check them out here:
[url]www.rallispec.com/prod_rssp.htm[/url]
:banana:
[url]www.rallispec.com/prod_rssp.htm[/url]
:banana:
| Clavo | 07-19-2006 09:21 PM |
How about upgraded springs that don't lower the vehicle at all ? I have a set of GGB take-offs for my wagon and would like to find slightly stiffer springs that won't lower and even perhaps raise it a touch.
| akuhner | 07-19-2006 09:52 PM |
There used to be rally springs for the STI V5 struts, but you wouldn't want to use them with stock struts. If you want to go cheap get a full setup from an Outback or something, at least they'll be matched right even if they are a little soft.
| greg donovan | 07-20-2006 11:19 AM |
it is possible to get custom wound OEM type springs in any rate and length you want. it isnt really cheap but it isnt as much as a coilover set either.
| SubaruGenuineParts | 07-20-2006 11:24 AM |
Run oem struts + springs in performance rally,
and they will last you maybe a few events.
(depends on where you are located, here in the NW? forget it....)
then you'll need to replace them....
IMHO You are best off saving up, and doing it right.
Otherwise, you'll just cost yourself just as much $ and twice as much frustration
swapping suspension/springs/struts over and over again.
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url]
and they will last you maybe a few events.
(depends on where you are located, here in the NW? forget it....)
then you'll need to replace them....
IMHO You are best off saving up, and doing it right.
Otherwise, you'll just cost yourself just as much $ and twice as much frustration
swapping suspension/springs/struts over and over again.
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url]
| greg donovan | 07-20-2006 11:31 AM |
[QUOTE=SubaruGenuineParts]Run oem struts + springs in performance rally,
and they will last you maybe a few events.
(depends on where you are located, here in the NW? forget it....)
then you'll need to replace them....
IMHO You are best off saving up, and doing it right.
Otherwise, you'll just cost yourself just as much $ and twice as much frustration
swapping suspension/springs/struts over and over again.
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
i agree but so far the person asking the questions has not said what their goal is for the car. if it is rallycross then he doesnt need much more than springs.
and they will last you maybe a few events.
(depends on where you are located, here in the NW? forget it....)
then you'll need to replace them....
IMHO You are best off saving up, and doing it right.
Otherwise, you'll just cost yourself just as much $ and twice as much frustration
swapping suspension/springs/struts over and over again.
Jamie [url=http://www.subiegal.com/][img]http://www.subiegal.com/subiegal-smilie.png[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
i agree but so far the person asking the questions has not said what their goal is for the car. if it is rallycross then he doesnt need much more than springs.
| roofis | 07-20-2006 10:41 PM |
Oh hell, I usually get heat for posts like this but whatever...
Find John Vanlandingham in Seattle. He makes a custom 50mm and 40mm Bilstein setup for almost any application which can be had for well under $3k.
I'm currently building a gc headed for real, true blue stage rally events. The suspension I've chosen to go with is John's custom setup. He has been rallying and racing motorbikes for some time now and has built several sets of his suspension for a handfull of teams in North America. He also has experience building and prepping a lot of other cars, some from the old school rally days (Volvos, Ford, and VW too).
What you get are 50mm strut pistons by Bilstein and John fabs up the Macpherson brackets, spring perches and the piston sleeves. He also can do 40mm pistons for a little less than the 50's price, again by Bilstein and same setup as the 50, just the thinner strut. One thing though is that these will require wheel spacers and elongated wheel studs or you'll have the springs rubbing on your tire sidewalls. I didn't view that as any significant hurdle. By design, these I view to be a step over the hotbits setup as they don't have exteral fluid reservoirs but they offer much more travel than you get with the hotbits and the HB piston is not as large in diameter either.
Comparing them to the Tein HG and the DMS 50, the Teins are pretty new in the US rally world and not a lot of people are willing to test them out. I've read some good things about them but there are a lot of skeptics. Dave Clark in Seattle has some experience fiddling with them and he's driven everything else under the sun so he'll give you some useful info. Find NASIOC member "RoundtheBend" without the quotes. Last I saw him was at a rallycross and Erik was stage rallying a Legacy with Tein HG's and H&R springs.
The DMS's are a touchy subject. Some hate them, some love them. Jamie Thomas is using these, Pat Richard has and both with great success. They're probably one of the most popular real rally setup in North America. To save you some searching, [I]many[/I] complain the customer service is lacking (still) and rebuild prices are astronomical, not to mention the initial price of the suspnsion is muchos muchos. Those were the main arguments against them that made me choose the Bilsteins. If I hadn't chosen these, I'd have subtracted funds from someplace else and sprung for the RSSP setup but I'm not at the level where I need a $6k suspensiom to do the be all I can be thing.
RSSP is gold, an Argentinian company that puts a hell of a lot of effort into the quality of their stuff. Travis Pastrana and Ken Block were using them for the 2005 season, now I believe they both use Ohlins (Christian, correct me if I'm wrong). There are a number of guys using RSSP in the US. The only US distributor is Rallispec in NJ so contact them if you wanna see what the real deal is like. I believe the prices are $5000-$6000 depending on if you want the hydraulic bump stops or not and rebuilds are about $125ish per corner.
Here's a pic of John's stuff sitting next to a Hotbits piece.
[url]http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/jvabvshb.jpg[/url]
If you want more info, his email address is [email][email�protected][/email]
Here's his website again.
[url]www.jvab.f4.ca[/url]
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.
Find John Vanlandingham in Seattle. He makes a custom 50mm and 40mm Bilstein setup for almost any application which can be had for well under $3k.
I'm currently building a gc headed for real, true blue stage rally events. The suspension I've chosen to go with is John's custom setup. He has been rallying and racing motorbikes for some time now and has built several sets of his suspension for a handfull of teams in North America. He also has experience building and prepping a lot of other cars, some from the old school rally days (Volvos, Ford, and VW too).
What you get are 50mm strut pistons by Bilstein and John fabs up the Macpherson brackets, spring perches and the piston sleeves. He also can do 40mm pistons for a little less than the 50's price, again by Bilstein and same setup as the 50, just the thinner strut. One thing though is that these will require wheel spacers and elongated wheel studs or you'll have the springs rubbing on your tire sidewalls. I didn't view that as any significant hurdle. By design, these I view to be a step over the hotbits setup as they don't have exteral fluid reservoirs but they offer much more travel than you get with the hotbits and the HB piston is not as large in diameter either.
Comparing them to the Tein HG and the DMS 50, the Teins are pretty new in the US rally world and not a lot of people are willing to test them out. I've read some good things about them but there are a lot of skeptics. Dave Clark in Seattle has some experience fiddling with them and he's driven everything else under the sun so he'll give you some useful info. Find NASIOC member "RoundtheBend" without the quotes. Last I saw him was at a rallycross and Erik was stage rallying a Legacy with Tein HG's and H&R springs.
The DMS's are a touchy subject. Some hate them, some love them. Jamie Thomas is using these, Pat Richard has and both with great success. They're probably one of the most popular real rally setup in North America. To save you some searching, [I]many[/I] complain the customer service is lacking (still) and rebuild prices are astronomical, not to mention the initial price of the suspnsion is muchos muchos. Those were the main arguments against them that made me choose the Bilsteins. If I hadn't chosen these, I'd have subtracted funds from someplace else and sprung for the RSSP setup but I'm not at the level where I need a $6k suspensiom to do the be all I can be thing.
RSSP is gold, an Argentinian company that puts a hell of a lot of effort into the quality of their stuff. Travis Pastrana and Ken Block were using them for the 2005 season, now I believe they both use Ohlins (Christian, correct me if I'm wrong). There are a number of guys using RSSP in the US. The only US distributor is Rallispec in NJ so contact them if you wanna see what the real deal is like. I believe the prices are $5000-$6000 depending on if you want the hydraulic bump stops or not and rebuilds are about $125ish per corner.
Here's a pic of John's stuff sitting next to a Hotbits piece.
[url]http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/jvabvshb.jpg[/url]
If you want more info, his email address is [email][email�protected][/email]
Here's his website again.
[url]www.jvab.f4.ca[/url]
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.
| greg donovan | 07-21-2006 01:08 AM |
[QUOTE=roofis]
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.[/QUOTE]
and he paints [U]everything[/U] that obnoxious shade of green.
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.[/QUOTE]
and he paints [U]everything[/U] that obnoxious shade of green.
| OBShahn | 07-21-2006 01:22 AM |
[QUOTE=roofis]Oh hell, I usually get heat for posts like this but whatever...
Find John Vanlandingham in Seattle. He makes a custom 50mm and 40mm Bilstein setup for almost any application which can be had for well under $3k.
I'm currently building a gc headed for real, true blue stage rally events. The suspension I've chosen to go with is John's custom setup. He has been rallying and racing motorbikes for some time now and has built several sets of his suspension for a handfull of teams in North America. He also has experience building and prepping a lot of other cars, some from the old school rally days (Volvos, Ford, and VW too).
What you get are 50mm strut pistons by Bilstein and John fabs up the Macpherson brackets, spring perches and the piston sleeves. He also can do 40mm pistons for a little less than the 50's price, again by Bilstein and same setup as the 50, just the thinner strut. One thing though is that these will require wheel spacers and elongated wheel studs or you'll have the springs rubbing on your tire sidewalls. I didn't view that as any significant hurdle. By design, these I view to be a step over the hotbits setup as they don't have exteral fluid reservoirs but they offer much more travel than you get with the hotbits and the HB piston is not as large in diameter either.
Comparing them to the Tein HG and the DMS 50, the Teins are pretty new in the US rally world and not a lot of people are willing to test them out. I've read some good things about them but there are a lot of skeptics. Dave Clark in Seattle has some experience fiddling with them and he's driven everything else under the sun so he'll give you some useful info. Find NASIOC member "RoundtheBend" without the quotes. Last I saw him was at a rallycross and Erik was stage rallying a Legacy with Tein HG's and H&R springs.
The DMS's are a touchy subject. Some hate them, some love them. Jamie Thomas is using these, Pat Richard has and both with great success. They're probably one of the most popular real rally setup in North America. To save you some searching, [I]many[/I] complain the customer service is lacking (still) and rebuild prices are astronomical, not to mention the initial price of the suspnsion is muchos muchos. Those were the main arguments against them that made me choose the Bilsteins. If I hadn't chosen these, I'd have subtracted funds from someplace else and sprung for the RSSP setup but I'm not at the level where I need a $6k suspensiom to do the be all I can be thing.
RSSP is gold, an Argentinian company that puts a hell of a lot of effort into the quality of their stuff. Travis Pastrana and Ken Block were using them for the 2005 season, now I believe they both use Ohlins (Christian, correct me if I'm wrong). There are a number of guys using RSSP in the US. The only US distributor is Rallispec in NJ so contact them if you wanna see what the real deal is like. I believe the prices are $5000-$6000 depending on if you want the hydraulic bump stops or not and rebuilds are about $125ish per corner.
Here's a pic of John's stuff sitting next to a Hotbits piece.
[url]http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/jvabvshb.jpg[/url]
If you want more info, his email address is [email][email�protected][/email]
Here's his website again.
[url]www.jvab.f4.ca[/url]
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.[/QUOTE]
Be prepared to do a little fabbing when you get them. They are strong, cheap, and will certainly work, just don't expect a "plug and play" type installation....
To make my point clear, I have had many personal bouts with JVL (and will probably have some more sooner or later), but still think his suspension has very good value for the money. On a Subaru there may be a cheaper alternative dear to shear volume of options but, yeah.
PS Stephan Verdier seemed to have no problems running Tein's and if you want to talk about a man that is hard on his equipment...
Find John Vanlandingham in Seattle. He makes a custom 50mm and 40mm Bilstein setup for almost any application which can be had for well under $3k.
I'm currently building a gc headed for real, true blue stage rally events. The suspension I've chosen to go with is John's custom setup. He has been rallying and racing motorbikes for some time now and has built several sets of his suspension for a handfull of teams in North America. He also has experience building and prepping a lot of other cars, some from the old school rally days (Volvos, Ford, and VW too).
What you get are 50mm strut pistons by Bilstein and John fabs up the Macpherson brackets, spring perches and the piston sleeves. He also can do 40mm pistons for a little less than the 50's price, again by Bilstein and same setup as the 50, just the thinner strut. One thing though is that these will require wheel spacers and elongated wheel studs or you'll have the springs rubbing on your tire sidewalls. I didn't view that as any significant hurdle. By design, these I view to be a step over the hotbits setup as they don't have exteral fluid reservoirs but they offer much more travel than you get with the hotbits and the HB piston is not as large in diameter either.
Comparing them to the Tein HG and the DMS 50, the Teins are pretty new in the US rally world and not a lot of people are willing to test them out. I've read some good things about them but there are a lot of skeptics. Dave Clark in Seattle has some experience fiddling with them and he's driven everything else under the sun so he'll give you some useful info. Find NASIOC member "RoundtheBend" without the quotes. Last I saw him was at a rallycross and Erik was stage rallying a Legacy with Tein HG's and H&R springs.
The DMS's are a touchy subject. Some hate them, some love them. Jamie Thomas is using these, Pat Richard has and both with great success. They're probably one of the most popular real rally setup in North America. To save you some searching, [I]many[/I] complain the customer service is lacking (still) and rebuild prices are astronomical, not to mention the initial price of the suspnsion is muchos muchos. Those were the main arguments against them that made me choose the Bilsteins. If I hadn't chosen these, I'd have subtracted funds from someplace else and sprung for the RSSP setup but I'm not at the level where I need a $6k suspensiom to do the be all I can be thing.
RSSP is gold, an Argentinian company that puts a hell of a lot of effort into the quality of their stuff. Travis Pastrana and Ken Block were using them for the 2005 season, now I believe they both use Ohlins (Christian, correct me if I'm wrong). There are a number of guys using RSSP in the US. The only US distributor is Rallispec in NJ so contact them if you wanna see what the real deal is like. I believe the prices are $5000-$6000 depending on if you want the hydraulic bump stops or not and rebuilds are about $125ish per corner.
Here's a pic of John's stuff sitting next to a Hotbits piece.
[url]http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/Build/jvabvshb.jpg[/url]
If you want more info, his email address is [email][email�protected][/email]
Here's his website again.
[url]www.jvab.f4.ca[/url]
John has this thing for renaming a lot of cars. Subys are sub-a-rats on his site..
hope this helps a bit.[/QUOTE]
Be prepared to do a little fabbing when you get them. They are strong, cheap, and will certainly work, just don't expect a "plug and play" type installation....
To make my point clear, I have had many personal bouts with JVL (and will probably have some more sooner or later), but still think his suspension has very good value for the money. On a Subaru there may be a cheaper alternative dear to shear volume of options but, yeah.
PS Stephan Verdier seemed to have no problems running Tein's and if you want to talk about a man that is hard on his equipment...
| roofis | 07-22-2006 11:57 AM |
bump for more info on the tein hg if anyone has any. i'm curious about them also.
[QUOTE=greg donovan]and he paints [U]everything[/U] that obnoxious shade of green.[/QUOTE]
i dunno, the sleek shiny aluminum, the kawasaki green and the crest bottle blue. i like it, i don't know why, but in some strange way i do.
greg, aside from the wheel spacing, what other issues have you had with the fitment?
thanks.
[QUOTE=greg donovan]and he paints [U]everything[/U] that obnoxious shade of green.[/QUOTE]
i dunno, the sleek shiny aluminum, the kawasaki green and the crest bottle blue. i like it, i don't know why, but in some strange way i do.
greg, aside from the wheel spacing, what other issues have you had with the fitment?
thanks.
| evom024 | 07-22-2006 12:33 PM |
basicly my goals are to have a bullit proof car that i can rally. now what kind of rally i dont know because im just getting into it, learning the basics. i want to price everything now and see what its gonna cost in the future. if anyone has links to rally information in the tri-state area (pa, oh, ny, wv) i would appreciate it.
| ROC pit-bull | 07-22-2006 01:30 PM |
I'm running TEIN HG's, I love them. they don't have the 50mm or the 60 mm that DMS. But for shocks with a smaller piston there is none close to it. Bump and rebound setting, and ride heighth adjustability. Runs awesome on tarmac as well as dirt/gravel. Can fly over pot holes, can take corners way faster, you won't regret ever getting them (I havn't).
I've seen Primitive selling them, they say they have them instock now.
The only downside is the instructions are in japanese, and the piston on the shock are stock size 22mm.
I've seen Primitive selling them, they say they have them instock now.
The only downside is the instructions are in japanese, and the piston on the shock are stock size 22mm.
| roofis | 07-23-2006 09:46 PM |
to the original poster, [url]www.specialstage.com[/url] will give you T O N S of rally info. building cars, what events are like and which ones are near you, you name it.
for stage rally schedules, look at [url]www.nasarallysport.com[/url] and [url]www.rally-america.com[/url]. the only stage rallies in your area are rally ny, susquehannock trails, and rally west virginia. maine forest is up a ways, but thats it for that corner of the country. stage rally is also more $$ to get into than the others. for most tsd rallies, you don't need a caged car, a firesuit, fia approved bucket seats, fire extinguishers, intercom systems, sfi approved harnesses, and of course none of that for rallycross either.
there are also rules against what kind of cars a novice can start out in for stage rally. you'd have to petition RA for a wavier to be allowed to race your 2.5i because most newcomers are preferred to start in a 2wd car.
not trying to discourage you, just it's more of a handfull than the other options. set aside a rainy afternoon and sit on the comp scouring the specialstage forums. there is soooo much to be learned there and stage rally in the US is a small community so people are 99.999999999% of the time going to be really friendly and helpful.
pit-bull, 22mm seems scary thin to me. are the tein pistons made in any kind of way or out of any certain material that offers more strength than say, a kyb agx or a hotbits piston?
for stage rally schedules, look at [url]www.nasarallysport.com[/url] and [url]www.rally-america.com[/url]. the only stage rallies in your area are rally ny, susquehannock trails, and rally west virginia. maine forest is up a ways, but thats it for that corner of the country. stage rally is also more $$ to get into than the others. for most tsd rallies, you don't need a caged car, a firesuit, fia approved bucket seats, fire extinguishers, intercom systems, sfi approved harnesses, and of course none of that for rallycross either.
there are also rules against what kind of cars a novice can start out in for stage rally. you'd have to petition RA for a wavier to be allowed to race your 2.5i because most newcomers are preferred to start in a 2wd car.
not trying to discourage you, just it's more of a handfull than the other options. set aside a rainy afternoon and sit on the comp scouring the specialstage forums. there is soooo much to be learned there and stage rally in the US is a small community so people are 99.999999999% of the time going to be really friendly and helpful.
pit-bull, 22mm seems scary thin to me. are the tein pistons made in any kind of way or out of any certain material that offers more strength than say, a kyb agx or a hotbits piston?
| bjorn240 | 07-23-2006 09:58 PM |
[QUOTE=roofis]set aside a rainy afternoon and sit on the comp scouring the specialstage forums. there is soooo much [B]time[/B] to be [B]wasted[/B] there and stage rally in the US is a small community so people are 99.999999999% of the time going to be really friendly and helpful.[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you! :p
Fixed it for you! :p
| Fred | 07-23-2006 10:19 PM |
[QUOTE]basicly my goals are to have a bullit proof car that i can rally. now what kind of rally i dont know because im just getting into it, learning the basics. [/QUOTE]
Until you can tell us what kind of rally, you won't get an accurate answer.
I've heard plenty of people using the word "rally" to mean that they drove down a dirt road. :lol:
If it's just rallycross or driving down reasonably well-maintained dirt roads, you won't need to change anything, but a skid plate may be a good thing to have.
If you're talking about stage rally and worrying about how much it's going to cost, you either can't afford it or you need to buy a POS pre-built rally car that won't hurt your feelings if it decides to leave the road and wrap itself around a tree. :)
Until you can tell us what kind of rally, you won't get an accurate answer.
I've heard plenty of people using the word "rally" to mean that they drove down a dirt road. :lol:
If it's just rallycross or driving down reasonably well-maintained dirt roads, you won't need to change anything, but a skid plate may be a good thing to have.
If you're talking about stage rally and worrying about how much it's going to cost, you either can't afford it or you need to buy a POS pre-built rally car that won't hurt your feelings if it decides to leave the road and wrap itself around a tree. :)
| Fred | 07-23-2006 10:29 PM |
Oh, also...
I had a set of Tein HG's that I used on my original 2.5RS for rallyx, autox and track (VIR), and it was a great suspension. Worked really well for each purpose, but was really overkill for what I was using it for, and the ride quality really sucked on the street. Plus, I traded in the RS for a WRX and thought I was going to sell my 2nd RS (I've sold the WRX, and still have my RS :lol: ). So in all the confusion, I sold the suspension to a rally guy in the northwest - who also has a Legacy.
I now have a 2004 STi suspension on my RS, which I use for rallyx, autox and daily driving. Ride sucks a little, but not quite as bad as the HG's, and it's pretty close to the same performance at rallyxes and autoxes. Just not height adjustable, but it sits just slightly above stock height, which is fine for my purposes. And comparing the STi suspension to the HG's, I don't feel like there's $2000 worth of difference between them (for my purposes). :lol:
I had a set of Tein HG's that I used on my original 2.5RS for rallyx, autox and track (VIR), and it was a great suspension. Worked really well for each purpose, but was really overkill for what I was using it for, and the ride quality really sucked on the street. Plus, I traded in the RS for a WRX and thought I was going to sell my 2nd RS (I've sold the WRX, and still have my RS :lol: ). So in all the confusion, I sold the suspension to a rally guy in the northwest - who also has a Legacy.
I now have a 2004 STi suspension on my RS, which I use for rallyx, autox and daily driving. Ride sucks a little, but not quite as bad as the HG's, and it's pretty close to the same performance at rallyxes and autoxes. Just not height adjustable, but it sits just slightly above stock height, which is fine for my purposes. And comparing the STi suspension to the HG's, I don't feel like there's $2000 worth of difference between them (for my purposes). :lol:
| roofis | 07-23-2006 11:15 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240]Fixed it for you! :p[/QUOTE]
haha. i suppose that's true too but this and every forum suffers from the same.
haha. i suppose that's true too but this and every forum suffers from the same.
| roofis | 07-23-2006 11:28 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]And comparing the STi suspension to the HG's, I don't feel like there's $2000 worth of difference between them (for my purposes). :lol:[/QUOTE]
Tein's stuff in general makes me feel that way too. There's a lot of name in Tein's price tags (guess they gotta pay for all those tuner mag ads somehow). I passed up the Tein Flex for a set of Megan Racing coilovers for a hair above half the price of the Teins for the Megans because the Tein stuff I've been on doesn't seem to be anything special at all. Granted, I'm talking about their stiff sprung street & track stuff, not rally related, but still applicable.
Did the HG alter the ride height of the car at all? External reservoirs on much below $5k setups just seems like it allows for the manufacturer to lower the car and decrease the piston travel making up for that by a larger oil volume. say it ai't so!
Also, can you describe the "bad" ride it gave? too bouncy? too stiff? mismatched valving & spring rates?
thank you.
Tein's stuff in general makes me feel that way too. There's a lot of name in Tein's price tags (guess they gotta pay for all those tuner mag ads somehow). I passed up the Tein Flex for a set of Megan Racing coilovers for a hair above half the price of the Teins for the Megans because the Tein stuff I've been on doesn't seem to be anything special at all. Granted, I'm talking about their stiff sprung street & track stuff, not rally related, but still applicable.
Did the HG alter the ride height of the car at all? External reservoirs on much below $5k setups just seems like it allows for the manufacturer to lower the car and decrease the piston travel making up for that by a larger oil volume. say it ai't so!
Also, can you describe the "bad" ride it gave? too bouncy? too stiff? mismatched valving & spring rates?
thank you.
| Fred | 07-24-2006 12:16 AM |
It was height adjustable, but I could never actually get the front to go above stock height, as much as I cranked the adjustment collars up. :confused: I think it was because I wasn't using the Tein camber plates or something.
The ride wasn't bouncy in the way that the STi suspension is bouncy. It's hard to describe so that you understand, but...
On normal country roads, it just felt firm but reasonably comfortable - just like the STi suspension. On undulating interstate, it was bouncy like the STi suspension, but not in the same way (can't describe the difference). On big bumps, like at a really crappy transition onto a bridge, the STi suspension just absorbs the bump or rises slightly and settles, but the Tein HG suspension would feel sort of like it was building up to something, then it would suddenly launch you out of the seat (or into the seat belt, if you had it cinched down). :eek: Really weird and very annoying, because there's a horrible strech of interstate that I had to drive on a regular basis which had a lot of those bumps.
But on smooth tarmac or badly-rutted rallyx courses, it was pretty amazing.
In between running the Tein HG suspension and the STi suspension on the current RS, which was almost a year, I used a set of stock RS springs and KYB GR2 struts for rallyx and daily driving. The RS has set FTD at every rallyx where I've run it, so apparently the suspension setup doesn't make a huge difference in time. :lol: But with the current setup, which includes the STi suspension, it feels the best it's ever felt on a rallyx course. The GR2's handled the slower stuff fine, but the car would get floaty on high-speed stuff, and there was too much body roll. For daily driving, the stock springs and GR2's were awesome, though. :)
The ride wasn't bouncy in the way that the STi suspension is bouncy. It's hard to describe so that you understand, but...
On normal country roads, it just felt firm but reasonably comfortable - just like the STi suspension. On undulating interstate, it was bouncy like the STi suspension, but not in the same way (can't describe the difference). On big bumps, like at a really crappy transition onto a bridge, the STi suspension just absorbs the bump or rises slightly and settles, but the Tein HG suspension would feel sort of like it was building up to something, then it would suddenly launch you out of the seat (or into the seat belt, if you had it cinched down). :eek: Really weird and very annoying, because there's a horrible strech of interstate that I had to drive on a regular basis which had a lot of those bumps.
But on smooth tarmac or badly-rutted rallyx courses, it was pretty amazing.
In between running the Tein HG suspension and the STi suspension on the current RS, which was almost a year, I used a set of stock RS springs and KYB GR2 struts for rallyx and daily driving. The RS has set FTD at every rallyx where I've run it, so apparently the suspension setup doesn't make a huge difference in time. :lol: But with the current setup, which includes the STi suspension, it feels the best it's ever felt on a rallyx course. The GR2's handled the slower stuff fine, but the car would get floaty on high-speed stuff, and there was too much body roll. For daily driving, the stock springs and GR2's were awesome, though. :)
| bjorn240 | 07-24-2006 07:05 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred] On big bumps, like at a really crappy transition onto a bridge, the STi suspension just absorbs the bump or rises slightly and settles, but the Tein HG suspension would feel sort of like it was building up to something, then it would suddenly launch you out of the seat (or into the seat belt, if you had it cinched down). :eek: Really weird and very annoying, because there's a horrible strech of interstate that I had to drive on a regular basis which had a lot of those bumps.[/QUOTE]
Cliff Notes: Insufficient rebound damping.
Cliff Notes: Insufficient rebound damping.
| Fred | 07-24-2006 09:04 AM |
The springs were softish (around 200 front & 100-200 progressive rear), and here are the front damping curves:
[IMG]http://home.att.net/~kevinmallen/dampingcurves.jpg[/IMG]
So maybe too much compression damping?
[IMG]http://home.att.net/~kevinmallen/dampingcurves.jpg[/IMG]
So maybe too much compression damping?
| bjorn240 | 07-24-2006 09:22 AM |
Maybe, though that's not usually the culprit. But yeah, looking at the graph, that might be suspected.
| Fred | 07-24-2006 10:01 AM |
I tried to fix it by lowering the compression damping and increasing the rebound damping, and it did get a little less horrible, but it didn't fix it. :lol:
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