| meridock | 11-27-2004 09:56 PM |
SCCA T-1 Results.
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One of the only 4 non-Z06 entries... The Subaru STi ...
[url]http://ww2.scca.com/clubresults.php?ID=196[/url]
25 30 Chuck Hemmingson/West Des Moines/IA/MW/DMV ICYRacing/PhoenixPerformance/S 04 Subaru WRX STi 28 19 1:41.043
About 8 sec off the pace and 105HP down on the pack...
Excellent start!
[url]http://ww2.scca.com/clubresults.php?ID=196[/url]
25 30 Chuck Hemmingson/West Des Moines/IA/MW/DMV ICYRacing/PhoenixPerformance/S 04 Subaru WRX STi 28 19 1:41.043
About 8 sec off the pace and 105HP down on the pack...
Excellent start!
| mw1029h | 11-28-2004 01:12 AM |
whats excellent about that. That's like taking a stick to a gun fight.
| meridock | 11-28-2004 05:01 AM |
first year in development and he wasn't last. I give congrats that he was willing to step outside the mold - isn't that what owning a subbie was all about?
| kwak | 11-28-2004 04:20 PM |
And then the car was immediately put up for sale.
Racing is about being competitive. And 3 seconds a lap slower than the 20th place car is not competitive. Those lap times would have put him 7th in T2. If the SCCA approves the current proposal to move the car to T2 then it might then have a chance.
Racing is about being competitive. And 3 seconds a lap slower than the 20th place car is not competitive. Those lap times would have put him 7th in T2. If the SCCA approves the current proposal to move the car to T2 then it might then have a chance.
| meridock | 11-28-2004 04:38 PM |
SCCA is afraid of turbo... That much down in HP was a loosing prospect at best. of 31 cars in T1... 27 were Z06's with the rules as they are now (ie the STi in T1) no STi would be competivie unless it rained. Poor conditions... The siren's call of the Subaru racing league. "Sure he beat me this time, but just wait until it rains!" :) The commentators even made this point. :)
I agree with kwak - racing is about being competive - and the STi in T1 is not. But Chuck Hemmingson should be applauded for the attempt. It would make a case study to SCCA for T2
I agree with kwak - racing is about being competive - and the STi in T1 is not. But Chuck Hemmingson should be applauded for the attempt. It would make a case study to SCCA for T2
| Crashton | 11-28-2004 07:07 PM |
I also read that SCCA may move the STI to T2. If they do it sure does stand a good chance. Hope SCCA doesn't hobble it with a weight increase or a turbo restrictor.
Go here for a couple of pictures from the runoffs.
[url]http://subaruforester.com/viewtopic.php?t=5987&sid=ec422d74958fdc63d37f2277d2d80510[/url]
Go here for a couple of pictures from the runoffs.
[url]http://subaruforester.com/viewtopic.php?t=5987&sid=ec422d74958fdc63d37f2277d2d80510[/url]
| FLEMON | 11-28-2004 07:28 PM |
Do they have a homepage or something? Id like to see more pictures of their car and what equipment they used. The car looked good. It had no power, but handeling wise it held its own. Id like to know what shocks/sping combo they are using. What did they do to the engine, what roll cage they have etc.
Its gonna be interesting to see the EVO-STI in T-2 next year.
Its gonna be interesting to see the EVO-STI in T-2 next year.
| Crashton | 11-28-2004 10:08 PM |
You might want to log onto the SCCA site & look up the rules for T1. I don't believe they are allowed to much more than safety equipment & maybe shocks.
| mw1029h | 11-28-2004 10:33 PM |
I don't think they would or could restrict the Sti in anyway that's not in the rules if I heard correctly as I watched the STi get murdered by the competition. The only time you saw the car on the track was when it was getting lapped. That car had no business on the track with the Z06, especially with :mad: being aloud to run a car Heinricy running a car. That STi did nothing but embarrass Sti owners all over the US.
| FLEMON | 11-28-2004 10:52 PM |
Actually, I was really proud to see a Suby representing eventhough the car didn't get a top 5. It's a start. And for us running STI's in T-1 it showed SCCA that the Subaru need's to be in T-2.
| dwx | 11-28-2004 10:56 PM |
Embarassment? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen posted here. The STI and EVO will be in T2 next year, that's pretty much a given at this point. Hemmingson would have qualified 2nd in T2 at runoffs. I think an STI or EVO has a good chance at winning T2 next year if they aren't restricted and allowed the same mods that Hemmingson had.
| kwak | 11-28-2004 11:03 PM |
[URL=http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/23/1147]Topic: T-2 Subaru STI For Sale[/URL] - the car was built by Phoenix Racing. T1 allows shocks, ECU tuning, cat back exhaust, and I believe anti-roll bars. Of course people can petition SCCA for other items for approval if there is a demonstrated need. For example, some of the things the Corvettes have (after years of development) are alternate springs, a larger radiator, and a trans/diff cooler.
Those pictures in the other forum show a car with some serious camber issues.
The problem with the turbo cars, since the SCCA has on purpose not allowed them for years, is someone needs to keep running one for a couple of years to work through the development issues, like putting the car in the proper class!, let alone get approved whatever the car needs. And if power is a concern the SCCA does have experience with inlet restrictors. Even the T2 Camaros have those. A big problem is getting a sponsor to help a team through the development years before the car can win. Someone already spent a lot of money this year to run the car to prove to the SCCA that the car was in the wrong class. It would be nice to see someone continue with it's development in T2.
Those pictures in the other forum show a car with some serious camber issues.
The problem with the turbo cars, since the SCCA has on purpose not allowed them for years, is someone needs to keep running one for a couple of years to work through the development issues, like putting the car in the proper class!, let alone get approved whatever the car needs. And if power is a concern the SCCA does have experience with inlet restrictors. Even the T2 Camaros have those. A big problem is getting a sponsor to help a team through the development years before the car can win. Someone already spent a lot of money this year to run the car to prove to the SCCA that the car was in the wrong class. It would be nice to see someone continue with it's development in T2.
| meridock | 11-29-2004 08:30 AM |
The STi and Evo are "Tweenie" cars.
What I mean by that is that for the money they run faster than the comparable machines, but not fast enough to "step up" The combination of AWD and Turbo make them scary to the T-2 Class and the lack of mods to the same turbo makes them uncompetive in the next best class. (Like the Speed World Challenge classes too fast for touring and to slow for GT.)
Of course this is almost exactly what kwak said, but Chuck's run 'proved' the business case to change the class.
On a different note... Can T1 get anymore boring? 27 Vettes running in the race - I thought I was watching the 355 Ferrari Challenge.
What I mean by that is that for the money they run faster than the comparable machines, but not fast enough to "step up" The combination of AWD and Turbo make them scary to the T-2 Class and the lack of mods to the same turbo makes them uncompetive in the next best class. (Like the Speed World Challenge classes too fast for touring and to slow for GT.)
Of course this is almost exactly what kwak said, but Chuck's run 'proved' the business case to change the class.
On a different note... Can T1 get anymore boring? 27 Vettes running in the race - I thought I was watching the 355 Ferrari Challenge.
| WRX-ECE | 11-29-2004 01:41 PM |
[QUOTE=meridock]
On a different note... Can T1 get anymore boring? 27 Vettes running in the race - I thought I was watching the 355 Ferrari Challenge.[/QUOTE]
I would have to say that Heinricy leading every lap for what four years now is boring, but still proof that he's good.
I guess if there was a better car, a better tuner or a better driver then yes, we'd see other stuff. But since i could by a Z06 from Pheonix tuned and setup exactly the same as Heinricy's car for less then any of the other "competitive" cars cost stock, there isn't much choice is there. In case you guy's didn't notice, Pheonix, the people who built the STi are also the premeir Z06 tuners too. Oh, and they also built all three of the CTS-Vs that were running.
I have to commend Pheonix and everyone else involved for taking a car they knew couldn't beat their own creations and running it.
Jeremy
On a different note... Can T1 get anymore boring? 27 Vettes running in the race - I thought I was watching the 355 Ferrari Challenge.[/QUOTE]
I would have to say that Heinricy leading every lap for what four years now is boring, but still proof that he's good.
I guess if there was a better car, a better tuner or a better driver then yes, we'd see other stuff. But since i could by a Z06 from Pheonix tuned and setup exactly the same as Heinricy's car for less then any of the other "competitive" cars cost stock, there isn't much choice is there. In case you guy's didn't notice, Pheonix, the people who built the STi are also the premeir Z06 tuners too. Oh, and they also built all three of the CTS-Vs that were running.
I have to commend Pheonix and everyone else involved for taking a car they knew couldn't beat their own creations and running it.
Jeremy
| meridock | 11-29-2004 01:53 PM |
[QUOTE=WRX-ECE]I would have to say that Heinricy leading every lap for what four years now is boring, but still proof that he's good.
I guess if there was a better car, a better tuner or a better driver then yes, we'd see other stuff. But since i could by a Z06 from Pheonix tuned and setup exactly the same as Heinricy's car for less then any of the other "competitive" cars cost stock, there isn't much choice is there. In case you guy's didn't notice, Pheonix, the people who built the STi are also the premeir Z06 tuners too. Oh, and they also built all three of the CTS-Vs that were running.
I have to commend Pheonix and everyone else involved for taking a car they knew couldn't beat their own creations and running it.
Jeremy[/QUOTE]
Understand the economics, but I really wish I liked watching Z06 after Z06 go by. One good thing is the Porsche was running nicely and was starting to look cheeky at the end.
Even "broke" he (Heinricy) still wins. :)
I guess if there was a better car, a better tuner or a better driver then yes, we'd see other stuff. But since i could by a Z06 from Pheonix tuned and setup exactly the same as Heinricy's car for less then any of the other "competitive" cars cost stock, there isn't much choice is there. In case you guy's didn't notice, Pheonix, the people who built the STi are also the premeir Z06 tuners too. Oh, and they also built all three of the CTS-Vs that were running.
I have to commend Pheonix and everyone else involved for taking a car they knew couldn't beat their own creations and running it.
Jeremy[/QUOTE]
Understand the economics, but I really wish I liked watching Z06 after Z06 go by. One good thing is the Porsche was running nicely and was starting to look cheeky at the end.
Even "broke" he (Heinricy) still wins. :)
| brianbot5000 | 11-29-2004 02:46 PM |
I loved seeing the STI out there with the Vettes (and a Porshe and SVT). It looked out of place, but that's the great thing about it! Comments on how it was "embarrassing" are laughable. It was out of it's class, definitely, but just being there was a feat in itself.
| meridock | 11-29-2004 03:09 PM |
As long as it beat the Mustang :) (former mustang owner here :) )
| kwak | 11-29-2004 03:32 PM |
[QUOTE]The STi and Evo are "Tweenie" cars.[/QUOTE]That sounds like what the other T2 competitors are saying, they are afraid of these cars. I don't know about the EVO but the STi is not between classes. A top line race shop prepared the STi and it's fastest race lap would have been 7th in the T2 race. People who do their homework find that the STi power output is injector limited, and you can't touch those in T1/T2. That info is freely available in these forums.
[QUOTE]Can T1 get anymore boring?[/QUOTE]Part of that was a typical TV director thing. Watching 4 laps of oil smoke is more interesting than watching cars passing each other? :huh: There was an in-car video of a punt posted in the SCCA T1 forum. A lot of passing did go on but none of it was shown on TV.
[QUOTE]Can T1 get anymore boring?[/QUOTE]Part of that was a typical TV director thing. Watching 4 laps of oil smoke is more interesting than watching cars passing each other? :huh: There was an in-car video of a punt posted in the SCCA T1 forum. A lot of passing did go on but none of it was shown on TV.
| meridock | 11-29-2004 04:29 PM |
I would imagine the competition sees the speed channel WRC coverage and only sees the open classes there having so much of everything. :cool:
The AWD and Turbo does scare the competition. The chassis is solid. The motor is good. The car's potential is there but probably not in the rule book as either class.
Personally, I am not a big a spec rules racer and if I were to "think" about boosting the performance I would immediately fall outside T1 or T2 specifications (and SWC Touring and GT.) Injectors and different turbo tend to place you outside the spec sheets and that gets expensive to race :lol:
I also guess the STi driver needs to pray for rain :lol: (in either class.)
Good comments. It would have been "news" for Hein-ies 4th in a row to go up in smoke. The passing they did show was the leaders lapping the STi.
The AWD and Turbo does scare the competition. The chassis is solid. The motor is good. The car's potential is there but probably not in the rule book as either class.
Personally, I am not a big a spec rules racer and if I were to "think" about boosting the performance I would immediately fall outside T1 or T2 specifications (and SWC Touring and GT.) Injectors and different turbo tend to place you outside the spec sheets and that gets expensive to race :lol:
I also guess the STi driver needs to pray for rain :lol: (in either class.)
Good comments. It would have been "news" for Hein-ies 4th in a row to go up in smoke. The passing they did show was the leaders lapping the STi.
| mw1029h | 11-29-2004 04:30 PM |
[QUOTE=dwx]Embarassment? That's one of the dumbest things I've seen posted here. The STI and EVO will be in T2 next year, that's pretty much a given at this point. Hemmingson would have qualified 2nd in T2 at runoffs. I think an STI or EVO has a good chance at winning T2 next year if they aren't restricted and allowed the same mods that Hemmingson had.[/QUOTE] and your point is what, The Sti had so business being there "T1". If I'm not mistaken it would have finished 7th in T2. This is not about the "Evo" and again it "STi" had no business in the field. As a matter of fact the car finished lower than it qualified. That's not what a call a good start. I agree it should be in T2. What it took was the GM vette boys to embarr"ass" the STi so they would be allowed move down. Thats stupid. All you have to do is look at the 2 on paper and you could figure out the results. Oh there was no rain or snow, without that the results would have been the same again and again. you don't think that GM spend all that money in racing to have a Sti steal the show. So stop talking about T2 we all now it has a chance in T2 that's my point. You don't jump in the ring with the champ because you think you can box, :D BTW if you think that this is the dumbest thing you seen posted here then you are not thinking, take a focus factor pill and try again. :confused:
| FLEMON | 11-29-2004 04:41 PM |
Myself being a T-1 racer (with an STI) I wish they allowed us to put a bigger turbo and injectors so that we could race with the Vette's. That would make some great action in T-1. And im not talking about a Garret GT 30 turbo...Im talking about a 18-20g.. I wish..I wish...I keep on wishing because its not gona happen.
| meridock | 12-02-2004 10:57 AM |
Sorry to revive this - I just started watching the T2 race. T2 is the place to be for the STi - the variety is there - the competition is tight amongst the varied manufacturers. And the SRT4 is already there. (Turbo precedent) As noted up above in the thread the STi would have been behind the SRT cause it (the SRT4) is so much fAstr. :)
| Crashton | 12-02-2004 06:13 PM |
I think that SRT4 may have won if TC Kline hadn't pulled that bonehead stunt in Madness. That really surprised me, I thought he was a much better racer than that. :rolleyes: Oh well I geuss he was caught out by the red mist!
| pio!pio! | 12-02-2004 06:36 PM |
[QUOTE=Crashton]I think that SRT4 may have won if TC Kline hadn't pulled that bonehead stunt in Madness. That really surprised me, I thought he was a much better racer than that. :rolleyes: Oh well I geuss he was caught out by the red mist![/QUOTE]
Well I think both drivers had the red mist fully on. I mean that was VERY optimistic of the SRT4 into turn 1 w/ the CTSV..then the 350Z totally rubbed on the SRT4 into turn 2, and then the SRT4 totally rubbed on the 350Z over the hump..they were both fully over commited over aggressive.
Well I think both drivers had the red mist fully on. I mean that was VERY optimistic of the SRT4 into turn 1 w/ the CTSV..then the 350Z totally rubbed on the SRT4 into turn 2, and then the SRT4 totally rubbed on the 350Z over the hump..they were both fully over commited over aggressive.
| kwak | 12-02-2004 07:37 PM |
There was a lot of unnecessary roughness in both the T1 and T2 races, especially T2.
That Neon would not have won. He was penalized two positions by the stewards for the rough driving which occurred before TC retaliated. TC retaliating then honestly saying he did so to the stewards after the race is a pretty standup thing. His penalty was less than the other guy.
That Neon would not have won. He was penalized two positions by the stewards for the rough driving which occurred before TC retaliated. TC retaliating then honestly saying he did so to the stewards after the race is a pretty standup thing. His penalty was less than the other guy.
| mw1029h | 12-03-2004 01:55 AM |
Yes sir that was greatest racing up until the Caddi was tossed . That was a shock hadn't seen a start and flip like that since Riverside. I can't even imagine what that felt like the front wheel drive SRT driver was a mad man but I will give you this, you can't spin out a Neon those who tried failed. Those little SOB/s raised hell out there. It would have been interesting to see the STi out there handing a few drivers their helmets. Hopefully, the Sti has a really good driver and rain then its over. :D
| FLEMON | 12-03-2004 09:43 AM |
If the STI's go to T2 next yeat, they are gonna put allot of restrctions on us. Im sure that the Neon boy's will cry. And the RX8 will cry. Everybody will cry due to our Brakes,AWD,Power. What are they gonna do with the WRX wich is already in T2? Are they gonna move it to T3? Are they gonna allow the WRX more thing's than to the STI's?
If they let us run with unlimited boost,ecu and exahust without having to put weight in the car, we should dominate.
If they let us run with unlimited boost,ecu and exahust without having to put weight in the car, we should dominate.
| trojan9x | 12-03-2004 10:13 AM |
maybe you'll have some redline ion's in the mix then too for T2. That seems like a much more fun class to run in.
| Crashton | 12-03-2004 04:46 PM |
[QUOTE=pio!pio!]Well I think both drivers had the red mist fully on. I mean that was VERY optimistic of the SRT4 into turn 1 w/ the CTSV..then the 350Z totally rubbed on the SRT4 into turn 2, and then the SRT4 totally rubbed on the 350Z over the hump..they were both fully over commited over aggressive.[/QUOTE]
Yes I have to agree with you it takes two to tango. The last hit at the bottom of madness was TC just nailing the Neon in the rear. IMO he wasn't even trying a pass. Looked like retaliation to me. Just my 2 cents here. I know if I was there in that position I probably would have had the red mist big time too.
Yes I have to agree with you it takes two to tango. The last hit at the bottom of madness was TC just nailing the Neon in the rear. IMO he wasn't even trying a pass. Looked like retaliation to me. Just my 2 cents here. I know if I was there in that position I probably would have had the red mist big time too.
| pio!pio! | 12-03-2004 04:55 PM |
I agree..that last hit seemed like it was out of spite
| mw1029h | 12-04-2004 08:00 AM |
Yeah the Z had nothing for ther Neon, all he could hope for is the punt, but he got it all wrong or his crew did he should have been warned " you better not mess with the Neon he's gonna whip your tail". but he got it all wrong. :D
| kwak | 01-23-2005 02:52 PM |
Some new videos have been posted in the T1 forum, including some in-car showing the STi.
First, the big "launch". [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/media/2004_RunOffs_AirRobbins.wmv[/URL]
From further back in the field, the big stackup up behind the "launch". This video shows the STi. [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules/Jinzora/music/Subdriver/SCCA_Runoffs_Lap%203.wmv[/URL]
First, the big "launch". [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/media/2004_RunOffs_AirRobbins.wmv[/URL]
From further back in the field, the big stackup up behind the "launch". This video shows the STi. [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules/Jinzora/music/Subdriver/SCCA_Runoffs_Lap%203.wmv[/URL]
| Vishnu Performance | 04-01-2005 11:19 AM |
Holy bump! Since the start of this thread, the ICY/Phoenix STis have been declassified to T2. And we've also taken over the engine/ecu tuning job for all of their cars-- for better or for worse ;) So far, things have looked really promising. Another race this weekend... Everyone-- cross your fingers!
| trhoppe | 04-01-2005 11:30 AM |
Sweet! I hope to be joining you guys once the 06 cars get here in september :devil:
-Tom
asdfasdfafdasdfasdf
-Tom
asdfasdfafdasdfasdf
| meridock | 04-01-2005 11:50 AM |
nice!!! This should make the competition a bit more level...
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101characters???
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101characters???
| pio!pio! | 04-01-2005 12:24 PM |
Sounds like T2 is the place to be for production cars...
| kwak | 04-01-2005 12:35 PM |
Should be good again this year. At Thunderhill an EVO won the first day and a Camaro the second day.
| TimStevens | 04-01-2005 01:43 PM |
[QUOTE=kwak]Some new videos have been posted in the T1 forum, including some in-car showing the STi.
First, the big "launch". [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/media/2004_RunOffs_AirRobbins.wmv[/URL]
From further back in the field, the big stackup up behind the "launch". This video shows the STi. [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules/Jinzora/music/Subdriver/SCCA_Runoffs_Lap%203.wmv[/URL][/QUOTE]
Damn, they have some serious bandwidth... vids downloaded in about 3 seconds!
second one is great, especially when the STi zips around the outside of 3 vettes in a corner.
First, the big "launch". [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/media/2004_RunOffs_AirRobbins.wmv[/URL]
From further back in the field, the big stackup up behind the "launch". This video shows the STi. [URL]http://www.crossedflags.com/nuke/html/modules/Jinzora/music/Subdriver/SCCA_Runoffs_Lap%203.wmv[/URL][/QUOTE]
Damn, they have some serious bandwidth... vids downloaded in about 3 seconds!
second one is great, especially when the STi zips around the outside of 3 vettes in a corner.
| trhoppe | 04-01-2005 01:55 PM |
There are also 3 STis and an EVO at Summit this weekend.
-Tom
-Tom
| javid | 04-01-2005 03:38 PM |
But you can't change springs..... :p
I just had to get that out.
hjkllkjhlkjhlkjhlkjh
I just had to get that out.
hjkllkjhlkjhlkjhlkjh
| trhoppe | 04-01-2005 03:40 PM |
:lol: The argument got settled last night when you left.
-Tom
-Tom
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