| engineerx | 04-25-2005 07:10 PM |
Installed Sparco Pro2000 Seats + Kept STi Side Airbags
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This is without a doubt NOT RECOMMENDED !! Since modifying OEM safety devices is definitely not safe!
However.....
I enjoy going to track days alot. I'm only 168 cm tall and weigh 70 kg, small-frame driver at best, so I slide all over the place in those USDM STi softy seats, so I decided to run Sparcos Pro 2000 which are more supportive but not extremely snug like the EVO's or Corsa's - I didn't wanna be too constrained either.
Well, I paid for the damn side airbags - so might as well try to use them !
I removed the module from the OEM seats and I'm going to mount it on the Sparcos - the modules will be very close to the position where they are located on the stock seats, so hopefully when the time comes for deployment, they will work - I figure as long as they're mounted in a secure manner and aiming at similar direction as stock, they should deploy similarly.
YES: I KNOW - they will not be positioned 100% as OEM and any small deviation may hinder their purpose. However - I'm hoping to get "some" protection should the undesirable ever occur.
When handling SRS modules utmost care should be taking as deployment can cause severe injury or even death ! So don't do it unless you are comfortable and competent!
Bottom Line - this mod may or may not be dangerous/ safe/ smart/
[B]BTW:[/B] I purchased the seats at [URL=http://www.hotsubarus.com/index.asp?PageAction=MFGSEARCH&ManfID=17&Page=1]www.Hot-Subaru.com[/URL] $559 delivered - good price and one of NASIOC vendors
The Sparco seat bases, sliders and mounting hardware I purchased from Mike MacGinnis from [URL=https://www.innovativetuning.com/osCommerce/product_info.php?cPath=45_240_166_168&products_id=497&osCsid=b9061d49bfc5f46083650f905cae6fd4]www.InnovativeTuning.com[/URL] - another NASIOC vendor
this is the only pic I could find of a WRX side airbag deployed:
Damn small airbag!![IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/safetyImprezaAirbags.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.aberdeenmotors.ca/new-vehicles/2005-subaru-impreza.htm[/url]
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats3.jpg[/IMG]
However.....
I enjoy going to track days alot. I'm only 168 cm tall and weigh 70 kg, small-frame driver at best, so I slide all over the place in those USDM STi softy seats, so I decided to run Sparcos Pro 2000 which are more supportive but not extremely snug like the EVO's or Corsa's - I didn't wanna be too constrained either.
Well, I paid for the damn side airbags - so might as well try to use them !
I removed the module from the OEM seats and I'm going to mount it on the Sparcos - the modules will be very close to the position where they are located on the stock seats, so hopefully when the time comes for deployment, they will work - I figure as long as they're mounted in a secure manner and aiming at similar direction as stock, they should deploy similarly.
YES: I KNOW - they will not be positioned 100% as OEM and any small deviation may hinder their purpose. However - I'm hoping to get "some" protection should the undesirable ever occur.
When handling SRS modules utmost care should be taking as deployment can cause severe injury or even death ! So don't do it unless you are comfortable and competent!
Bottom Line - this mod may or may not be dangerous/ safe/ smart/
[B]BTW:[/B] I purchased the seats at [URL=http://www.hotsubarus.com/index.asp?PageAction=MFGSEARCH&ManfID=17&Page=1]www.Hot-Subaru.com[/URL] $559 delivered - good price and one of NASIOC vendors
The Sparco seat bases, sliders and mounting hardware I purchased from Mike MacGinnis from [URL=https://www.innovativetuning.com/osCommerce/product_info.php?cPath=45_240_166_168&products_id=497&osCsid=b9061d49bfc5f46083650f905cae6fd4]www.InnovativeTuning.com[/URL] - another NASIOC vendor
this is the only pic I could find of a WRX side airbag deployed:
Damn small airbag!![IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/safetyImprezaAirbags.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.aberdeenmotors.ca/new-vehicles/2005-subaru-impreza.htm[/url]
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats3.jpg[/IMG]
| 02R6 | 04-25-2005 11:41 PM |
So how did you end up affixing them to the aftermarket seats? Like you said, the position isn't stock, but it looks like it will get the job done. Good work (despite what I'm sure others will say).
| ranger5oh | 04-26-2005 12:03 AM |
How do you like not being able to recline at all? Does that get uncomfortable?
| Butt Dyno | 04-26-2005 01:12 AM |
The Pro2000's are 32 pounds?? Damn.. an Evo is like 15.
Is that a Cusco rollcage?
Ranger - you really get used to it pretty fast. One other advantage of fixed-back seats I've noticed is that so far they seem to keep me more alert on long trips.
john
Is that a Cusco rollcage?
Ranger - you really get used to it pretty fast. One other advantage of fixed-back seats I've noticed is that so far they seem to keep me more alert on long trips.
john
| engineerx | 04-26-2005 01:33 AM |
02R6 :
I had to buy additional hardware, allen bolts and nylon-lock nuts. I made 2 brackets that will hold the module in place. See the pic below. Those are the bolts where the brackets will fasten and 3 other bolts will attach the SRS module to the seat's side - it will be sturdy enough. I'll post more pics when both seats and bags are installed.
Thanks for the positive comment 02R6. My main goal was keeping at least some of the benefits of the side airbags.
Most serious injuries and alot of fatalities occur from side impacts. Ever seen those Insurance Institute for Highway Safety side impact tests? - those poor crash test dummies end up hitting their heads on the hood of the car hitting the side of their car, not nice!
ranger5oh :
I should be ok with rigid seats. I seldom use the reclined positions. When driving I would keep it at same position almost all the time.
ButtDyno : 21.5 lb for the fiberglass Pro2000 + 10 lb for the base, sliders, and hardware (bolts, nuts, washers) - adds up to about 32 lbs, so thats about 32 lbs in weight savings for 2 seats.
The Carbon Fiber seats are 13 lbs and about $1750 msrp - yikes!
The EVO is 3 lb lighter since it's smaller.
I liked the PRO2000 more because it's bottom-mounted and not too snug.
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
Yep - 7-pt Cusco roll cage - not really competition approved since it's bolt on, and not as safe as a welded cage, but I wanted to keep space usable.
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats2.jpg[/IMG]
I had to buy additional hardware, allen bolts and nylon-lock nuts. I made 2 brackets that will hold the module in place. See the pic below. Those are the bolts where the brackets will fasten and 3 other bolts will attach the SRS module to the seat's side - it will be sturdy enough. I'll post more pics when both seats and bags are installed.
Thanks for the positive comment 02R6. My main goal was keeping at least some of the benefits of the side airbags.
Most serious injuries and alot of fatalities occur from side impacts. Ever seen those Insurance Institute for Highway Safety side impact tests? - those poor crash test dummies end up hitting their heads on the hood of the car hitting the side of their car, not nice!
ranger5oh :
I should be ok with rigid seats. I seldom use the reclined positions. When driving I would keep it at same position almost all the time.
ButtDyno : 21.5 lb for the fiberglass Pro2000 + 10 lb for the base, sliders, and hardware (bolts, nuts, washers) - adds up to about 32 lbs, so thats about 32 lbs in weight savings for 2 seats.
The Carbon Fiber seats are 13 lbs and about $1750 msrp - yikes!
The EVO is 3 lb lighter since it's smaller.
I liked the PRO2000 more because it's bottom-mounted and not too snug.
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
Yep - 7-pt Cusco roll cage - not really competition approved since it's bolt on, and not as safe as a welded cage, but I wanted to keep space usable.
[IMG]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats2.jpg[/IMG]
| engineerx | 04-26-2005 03:03 AM |
Some interesting footage from Progressive Insurance archives
Watching these gave me more incentive to do this mod.
The Legacy has nicer drop down curtain airbag. Those side airbags on the seats don't cover as much area - if the impact is at an offset angle, the occupants may miss the smaller airbags :(
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_Subaru_Legacy_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_FordEscape_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Toyota_RAV4_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Chevolet_Malibu_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Chevolet_Malibu_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Dodge_Status_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Accord_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Accord_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Hyundia_Sonata_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Mazda_6_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Mitsubishi_Galant_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Saturn_Lseries_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Suzuki_Verona_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Camry_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Camry_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_Nissan_Altima_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
Watching these gave me more incentive to do this mod.
The Legacy has nicer drop down curtain airbag. Those side airbags on the seats don't cover as much area - if the impact is at an offset angle, the occupants may miss the smaller airbags :(
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_Subaru_Legacy_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_FordEscape_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Toyota_RAV4_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Chevolet_Malibu_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Chevolet_Malibu_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Dodge_Status_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Accord_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Accord_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Hyundia_Sonata_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Mazda_6_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Mitsubishi_Galant_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Saturn_Lseries_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Suzuki_Verona_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Camry_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/04_Camry_SI.wmv[/url]
[url]http://www.progressive.com/video/05_Nissan_Altima_SI_no_airbags.wmv[/url]
| engineerx | 04-29-2005 03:01 AM |
Installation finished!
Now let's hope I never have to find out how they work
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats4.jpg[/img]
Now let's hope I never have to find out how they work
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats4.jpg[/img]
| kennyvb | 04-29-2005 04:01 AM |
Did you have to tear up (damage) your stock seat to get to the modules?
| engineerx | 04-29-2005 01:30 PM |
Not at all !
dissassembling the seats is not difficult
zippers in the back, a snap lock at bottom - pull the cover, push the foam aside, 2 nuts hold the airbag - remove them and it's out !
Airbags can be installed back in the seats and it would be hard to tell they were taken out unless you open the seats again :D
dissassembling the seats is not difficult
zippers in the back, a snap lock at bottom - pull the cover, push the foam aside, 2 nuts hold the airbag - remove them and it's out !
Airbags can be installed back in the seats and it would be hard to tell they were taken out unless you open the seats again :D
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 01:48 AM |
One last detail:
The sitting position was too low for me, I'm 5'6" - so I used some foam to raise it a couple of inches and it is much better.
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats5.jpg[/img]
The sitting position was too low for me, I'm 5'6" - so I used some foam to raise it a couple of inches and it is much better.
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats5.jpg[/img]
| TygerStile | 05-01-2005 02:03 AM |
Hey Roland... good stuff. Are your Sparco seats on sliders? Oh wait, I just saw the slider and bracket pic. Anyway... any problems with the seat hitting the b-pillar?
| jmolaver | 05-01-2005 02:31 AM |
Not sure how I feel about this mod..
While I'm sure the placement of the airbag is all calculated out for maximum safety in it's OEM position, I can't see how it wouldn't help in an impact how you mounted it...
However, I would be concerned about the airbag module coming loose in an impact and bouncing around in the cabin.. I had a boss who was almost killed by his laptop :eek:
While I'm sure the placement of the airbag is all calculated out for maximum safety in it's OEM position, I can't see how it wouldn't help in an impact how you mounted it...
However, I would be concerned about the airbag module coming loose in an impact and bouncing around in the cabin.. I had a boss who was almost killed by his laptop :eek:
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 02:31 AM |
Hey Mike !
No clearance problems - the base mounting holes are sligthly elongated so you can move them toward the center console (about 1/2") - the B-pillar clears by about 1.5"
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats6.jpg[/img]
No clearance problems - the base mounting holes are sligthly elongated so you can move them toward the center console (about 1/2") - the B-pillar clears by about 1.5"
[img]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/sparcoseats/sparcoseats6.jpg[/img]
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 02:40 AM |
[QUOTE=jmolaver]Not sure how I feel about this mod..
While I'm sure the placement of the airbag is all calculated out for maximum safety in it's OEM position, I can't see how it wouldn't help in an impact how you mounted it...
However, I would be concerned about the airbag module coming loose in an impact and bouncing around in the cabin.. I had a boss who was almost killed by his laptop :eek:[/QUOTE]
Yep - you should never carry heavy stuff in the passenger compartment- they become flying projectiles and can decapitate you or worst yet: kill you :(
The OEM location is of course the optimum position and should not be changed. However I do believe the engineers accounted for several drivers' heights - from 5'0" to 6'6" - I hope.... otherwise a large group of drivers would not be benefited!
I placed the SRS modules as close as possible to equivalent OEM location, including angle with respect to backrest. The SRS modules are securely mounted with three bolts. If the airbags "fly-off" from an impact , well... I most likely will have been broadsided by a freight train! - the OEM brackets are very thin sheetmetal and when they deploy everything happens in milliseconds so the mounting hardware will see the force of deployment first which should not be large enough to rip the mounting hardware from the seat :D
While I'm sure the placement of the airbag is all calculated out for maximum safety in it's OEM position, I can't see how it wouldn't help in an impact how you mounted it...
However, I would be concerned about the airbag module coming loose in an impact and bouncing around in the cabin.. I had a boss who was almost killed by his laptop :eek:[/QUOTE]
Yep - you should never carry heavy stuff in the passenger compartment- they become flying projectiles and can decapitate you or worst yet: kill you :(
The OEM location is of course the optimum position and should not be changed. However I do believe the engineers accounted for several drivers' heights - from 5'0" to 6'6" - I hope.... otherwise a large group of drivers would not be benefited!
I placed the SRS modules as close as possible to equivalent OEM location, including angle with respect to backrest. The SRS modules are securely mounted with three bolts. If the airbags "fly-off" from an impact , well... I most likely will have been broadsided by a freight train! - the OEM brackets are very thin sheetmetal and when they deploy everything happens in milliseconds so the mounting hardware will see the force of deployment first which should not be large enough to rip the mounting hardware from the seat :D
| TygerStile | 05-01-2005 02:50 AM |
[QUOTE=engineerx]Hey Mike !
No clearance problems - the base mounting holes are sligthly elongated so you can move them toward the center console (about 1/2") - the B-pillar clears by about 1.5"
[/QUOTE]
Hey Roland :)
I see, the pic looks good. I threw in a new Sparco seat a few months back, and I've been having problems with it hitting the b-pillar(when sliding the seat back). I'm not sure if the shoulder bolsters are wider on the Evo seats, compared to the pro2000.
So no problems with the bottom of the seat hitting the center console area when moving the seat forward? It looks like I need to do some adjustments on mine...
No clearance problems - the base mounting holes are sligthly elongated so you can move them toward the center console (about 1/2") - the B-pillar clears by about 1.5"
[/QUOTE]
Hey Roland :)
I see, the pic looks good. I threw in a new Sparco seat a few months back, and I've been having problems with it hitting the b-pillar(when sliding the seat back). I'm not sure if the shoulder bolsters are wider on the Evo seats, compared to the pro2000.
So no problems with the bottom of the seat hitting the center console area when moving the seat forward? It looks like I need to do some adjustments on mine...
| jmolaver | 05-01-2005 02:55 AM |
[QUOTE=engineerx]Yep - you should never carry heavy stuff in the passenger compartment- they become flying projectiles and can decapitate you or kill you :(
The OEM location is of course the optimum position and should not be changed. However I do believe the engineers accounted for several drivers' heights - from 5'0" to 6'6" - I hope.... otherwise a large group of drivers would not be benefited!
I placed the SRS modules as close as possible to equivalent OEM location, including angle with respect to backrest. The SRS modules are securely mounted with three bolts. If the airbags "fly-off" from an impact , well... I most likely will have been broadsided by a freight train! - the OEM brakets are very thin sheetmetal and when they deploy everything happens in milliseconds so the mounting hardware will see the force of deployment first which should not be large enough to rip the mounting hardware from the seat :D[/QUOTE]
sounds like you put some serious thought into this which is very reassuring, but like you, i hope you never have to use find out..
[hijack] knew I recognized your name, i've been contemplating some brake ducting i stumbled across your post in this [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636548]thread[/URL], how did it pan out? have you noticed significantly lower rotor temps since the install? any completed pics? :) [/hijack]
The OEM location is of course the optimum position and should not be changed. However I do believe the engineers accounted for several drivers' heights - from 5'0" to 6'6" - I hope.... otherwise a large group of drivers would not be benefited!
I placed the SRS modules as close as possible to equivalent OEM location, including angle with respect to backrest. The SRS modules are securely mounted with three bolts. If the airbags "fly-off" from an impact , well... I most likely will have been broadsided by a freight train! - the OEM brakets are very thin sheetmetal and when they deploy everything happens in milliseconds so the mounting hardware will see the force of deployment first which should not be large enough to rip the mounting hardware from the seat :D[/QUOTE]
sounds like you put some serious thought into this which is very reassuring, but like you, i hope you never have to use find out..
[hijack] knew I recognized your name, i've been contemplating some brake ducting i stumbled across your post in this [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636548]thread[/URL], how did it pan out? have you noticed significantly lower rotor temps since the install? any completed pics? :) [/hijack]
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 03:08 AM |
[QUOTE=TygerStile]Hey Roland :)
I see, the pic looks good. I threw in a new Sparco seat a few months back, and I've been having problems with it hitting the b-pillar(when sliding the seat back). I'm not sure if the shoulder bolsters are wider on the Evo seats, compared to the pro2000.
So no problems with the bottom of the seat hitting the center console area when moving the seat forward? It looks like I need to do some adjustments on mine...[/QUOTE]
Nothing hits! I guess I lucked out going with the Pro2000's - they seem to be made for the WRX - good clearances overall thru the sliding range
According to Sparco spec sheet
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
EVO is only 0.12" wider at the shoulder bolsters (dimension "B") and 0.3" at the side bolsters (dimension "D") which should still give you enough clearance - unless the WRX is narrower than the STi?
However - the EVO dimension "C" is 1.5" higher, which is probably what is causing your clearance issues as it places the widest section of the seats at the narrowest section of the WRX (the point above the shoulder bolster on my Pro2000's where the gray plastic trim ends on the B-pillar.)
The Pro2000's are bottom mount, so that helps since they will be lower than the side mounts/side brackets/sliders/base combination
Hopefully your sitting position is not right at the location where it rubs? I usually set the seat and hardly move it - only when I go to the track I'll move it forward a little.
[QUOTE=jmolaver]
[hijack] knew I recognized your name, i've been contemplating some brake ducting i stumbled across your post in this [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636548]thread[/URL], how did it pan out? have you noticed significantly lower rotor temps since the install? any completed pics? :) [/hijack][/QUOTE]
I recently finished the Brake Ducting
I think they came out nice !
I'll post pics / mod soon so look for it - Haven't been to the track yet - but last trackday I went to (Buttonwillow) there was alot of fade since speed in the straights were about 120 / 130 mph then hard on brakes for a 40 mph turn!
The ducts should cool the rotors and should help reduce temps - How much? I don't know that yet :) I was thinking of bringing a IR temperature gage to the next track session and run w/ ducts open and w/ ducts closed to see temperature differences
here's a preview
[url]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/brakeducts/brakeducts.html[/url]
I see, the pic looks good. I threw in a new Sparco seat a few months back, and I've been having problems with it hitting the b-pillar(when sliding the seat back). I'm not sure if the shoulder bolsters are wider on the Evo seats, compared to the pro2000.
So no problems with the bottom of the seat hitting the center console area when moving the seat forward? It looks like I need to do some adjustments on mine...[/QUOTE]
Nothing hits! I guess I lucked out going with the Pro2000's - they seem to be made for the WRX - good clearances overall thru the sliding range
According to Sparco spec sheet
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
EVO is only 0.12" wider at the shoulder bolsters (dimension "B") and 0.3" at the side bolsters (dimension "D") which should still give you enough clearance - unless the WRX is narrower than the STi?
However - the EVO dimension "C" is 1.5" higher, which is probably what is causing your clearance issues as it places the widest section of the seats at the narrowest section of the WRX (the point above the shoulder bolster on my Pro2000's where the gray plastic trim ends on the B-pillar.)
The Pro2000's are bottom mount, so that helps since they will be lower than the side mounts/side brackets/sliders/base combination
Hopefully your sitting position is not right at the location where it rubs? I usually set the seat and hardly move it - only when I go to the track I'll move it forward a little.
[QUOTE=jmolaver]
[hijack] knew I recognized your name, i've been contemplating some brake ducting i stumbled across your post in this [URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636548]thread[/URL], how did it pan out? have you noticed significantly lower rotor temps since the install? any completed pics? :) [/hijack][/QUOTE]
I recently finished the Brake Ducting
I think they came out nice !
I'll post pics / mod soon so look for it - Haven't been to the track yet - but last trackday I went to (Buttonwillow) there was alot of fade since speed in the straights were about 120 / 130 mph then hard on brakes for a 40 mph turn!
The ducts should cool the rotors and should help reduce temps - How much? I don't know that yet :) I was thinking of bringing a IR temperature gage to the next track session and run w/ ducts open and w/ ducts closed to see temperature differences
here's a preview
[url]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/brakeducts/brakeducts.html[/url]
| jmolaver | 05-01-2005 03:42 AM |
[QUOTE=engineerx]
I recently finished the Brake Ducting
I think they came out nice !
I'll post pics / mod soon so look for it - Haven't been to the track yet - but last trackday I went to (Buttonwillow) there was alot of fade since speed in the straights were about 120 / 130 mph then hard on brakes for a 40 mph turn!
The ducts should cool the rotors and should help reduce temps - How much? I don't know that yet :) I was thinking of bringing a IR temperature gage to the next track session and run w/ ducts open and w/ ducts closed to see temperature differences
here's a preview
[url]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/brakeducts/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
congrats - it looks great :banana: i don't want to totally hijack this thread, so i'll wait for your thread to bomb you with questions.. oh and it'd be awesome if you could take temps at the next event and post the results...
I'm debating removing / cutting away the dustshield (boiled the fluid at my last event running ford hd fluid/panther +s/070s, front rotor temps ~700F after a cooldown lap :(), but it might be more efficient if i duct later to have them there :confused: any thoughts?
I recently finished the Brake Ducting
I think they came out nice !
I'll post pics / mod soon so look for it - Haven't been to the track yet - but last trackday I went to (Buttonwillow) there was alot of fade since speed in the straights were about 120 / 130 mph then hard on brakes for a 40 mph turn!
The ducts should cool the rotors and should help reduce temps - How much? I don't know that yet :) I was thinking of bringing a IR temperature gage to the next track session and run w/ ducts open and w/ ducts closed to see temperature differences
here's a preview
[url]http://subaru-wrx-sti.com/web/MODS/brakeducts/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
congrats - it looks great :banana: i don't want to totally hijack this thread, so i'll wait for your thread to bomb you with questions.. oh and it'd be awesome if you could take temps at the next event and post the results...
I'm debating removing / cutting away the dustshield (boiled the fluid at my last event running ford hd fluid/panther +s/070s, front rotor temps ~700F after a cooldown lap :(), but it might be more efficient if i duct later to have them there :confused: any thoughts?
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 03:56 AM |
[QUOTE=jmolaver] (boiled the fluid at my last event running ford hd fluid/panther +s/070s, front rotor temps ~700F after a cooldown lap :(), but it might be more efficient if i duct later to have them there :confused: any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I know what you mean ! I got all 4 rotors glowing red once - lots of smoke billowing up from rotors - I thought they were gonna melt !!
The STI OEM rotors have poor venting - as posted numerously in the forums, the vanes in the rotors don't move much air ( from what I've read - but I have never actually seen any air flow data) However- One thing I can say about the OEM Brembo rotors: they can take some punishment, after making them glow, stopping w/out allowing them to cool (dumb), they developed no cracks, warps or anything of the sort! I used them in 4 track events so far and still have a couple more once I turn them, they are strong! I installed TWR 2-pc front & DBA 4000 rears.
Aftermarket rotors probably do have better airflow - from better rotor vanes so that would help you. Also check your brake fluid dry boiling point specs I'm using Motul RBF600 - not too expensive and good dry boiling point ( I believe better than ATF blue)
The dustshield restricts fresh air from going into rotors on the inside , but it helps keep debris out. The brake mod I did is yet again one of those " Can't hurt but most likely helps some " type of mod :)
I know what you mean ! I got all 4 rotors glowing red once - lots of smoke billowing up from rotors - I thought they were gonna melt !!
The STI OEM rotors have poor venting - as posted numerously in the forums, the vanes in the rotors don't move much air ( from what I've read - but I have never actually seen any air flow data) However- One thing I can say about the OEM Brembo rotors: they can take some punishment, after making them glow, stopping w/out allowing them to cool (dumb), they developed no cracks, warps or anything of the sort! I used them in 4 track events so far and still have a couple more once I turn them, they are strong! I installed TWR 2-pc front & DBA 4000 rears.
Aftermarket rotors probably do have better airflow - from better rotor vanes so that would help you. Also check your brake fluid dry boiling point specs I'm using Motul RBF600 - not too expensive and good dry boiling point ( I believe better than ATF blue)
The dustshield restricts fresh air from going into rotors on the inside , but it helps keep debris out. The brake mod I did is yet again one of those " Can't hurt but most likely helps some " type of mod :)
| TygerStile | 05-01-2005 01:28 PM |
[QUOTE=engineerx]Nothing hits! I guess I lucked out going with the Pro2000's - they seem to be made for the WRX - good clearances overall thru the sliding range
According to Sparco spec sheet
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
EVO is only 0.12" wider at the shoulder bolsters (dimension "B") and 0.3" at the side bolsters (dimension "D") which should still give you enough clearance - unless the WRX is narrower than the STi?
However - the EVO dimension "C" is 1.5" higher, which is probably what is causing your clearance issues as it places the widest section of the seats at the narrowest section of the WRX (the point above the shoulder bolster on my Pro2000's where the gray plastic trim ends on the B-pillar.)
The Pro2000's are bottom mount, so that helps since they will be lower than the side mounts/side brackets/sliders/base combination
Hopefully your sitting position is not right at the location where it rubs? I usually set the seat and hardly move it - only when I go to the track I'll move it forward a little.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah... with the side mounts, the seat sit high. Plus I bought the Evo L(fatty sized seat) for me cuz I'm a little hefty:p . I end up sitting a little closer than what I like just because of the rubbing, but its not a big deal. I'll see what I can do to modify things a bit.
According to Sparco spec sheet
[url]http://www.sparco-usa.com/resourceFiles/26.pdf[/url]
EVO is only 0.12" wider at the shoulder bolsters (dimension "B") and 0.3" at the side bolsters (dimension "D") which should still give you enough clearance - unless the WRX is narrower than the STi?
However - the EVO dimension "C" is 1.5" higher, which is probably what is causing your clearance issues as it places the widest section of the seats at the narrowest section of the WRX (the point above the shoulder bolster on my Pro2000's where the gray plastic trim ends on the B-pillar.)
The Pro2000's are bottom mount, so that helps since they will be lower than the side mounts/side brackets/sliders/base combination
Hopefully your sitting position is not right at the location where it rubs? I usually set the seat and hardly move it - only when I go to the track I'll move it forward a little.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah... with the side mounts, the seat sit high. Plus I bought the Evo L(fatty sized seat) for me cuz I'm a little hefty:p . I end up sitting a little closer than what I like just because of the rubbing, but its not a big deal. I'll see what I can do to modify things a bit.
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 02:04 PM |
A few options you migh wanna look into:
- Drill new holes into base or the side mounting brackets, though you must be careful and choose where the new holes will be located as you don't want to weaken the base or side brackets. For the side bracket you can try lowering the seat if there's space underneath so that the shoulder bolster will be at about same level as the PRO2000's
- Make the existing holes more elongated, if the shoulder bolsters needs less than 1/4" clearance, a slightly more elongated base holes might do the trick.
- Reshape right shoulder bolster.... this, however it's a permanent change and it may be difficult to get the seat cloth in the bolster area to look clean/unwrinkled.... so that would be last choice if nothing else works.
- Another option: Sell your EVO2 seat & side brackets (eBay or forums) and buy the PRO2000 ($559 shipped @ Hot-subaru.com) comparing the dimensions, it seems the PRO2K has about same room as the EVO2. You should try fitment on the PRO2K, maybe one of these days you can test fit in mine.
- Drill new holes into base or the side mounting brackets, though you must be careful and choose where the new holes will be located as you don't want to weaken the base or side brackets. For the side bracket you can try lowering the seat if there's space underneath so that the shoulder bolster will be at about same level as the PRO2000's
- Make the existing holes more elongated, if the shoulder bolsters needs less than 1/4" clearance, a slightly more elongated base holes might do the trick.
- Reshape right shoulder bolster.... this, however it's a permanent change and it may be difficult to get the seat cloth in the bolster area to look clean/unwrinkled.... so that would be last choice if nothing else works.
- Another option: Sell your EVO2 seat & side brackets (eBay or forums) and buy the PRO2000 ($559 shipped @ Hot-subaru.com) comparing the dimensions, it seems the PRO2K has about same room as the EVO2. You should try fitment on the PRO2K, maybe one of these days you can test fit in mine.
| root | 05-01-2005 02:56 PM |
[QUOTE=engineerx]they become flying projectiles and can decapitate you or worst yet: kill you[/QUOTE]
Some how I think being decapitated but [i]not[/i] dead would be worse than being killed. But maybe that's just me. :D
Some how I think being decapitated but [i]not[/i] dead would be worse than being killed. But maybe that's just me. :D
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 09:09 PM |
[QUOTE=root]Some how I think being decapitated but [i]not[/i] dead would be worse than being killed. But maybe that's just me. :D[/QUOTE]
:lol:
You would see yourself from a different perspective !
:lol:
You would see yourself from a different perspective !
| deoreo | 05-01-2005 09:21 PM |
I am very interested in learning more about how you
routed the OEM seatbelt, and if it is comfortable as it is pictured.
Did you disassemble the seatbelt unit?
I would really love to run a fixed back seat - I would like a snug
seat for my skinny 5'7" 138lb. self!! But I do not want to run
a harness in my daily driver (no cage, no helmet).
I always assumed you could not use the OEM belt with the high
seat bolster on the fixed back seats.
Please tell me more about your set up :)
Steve
routed the OEM seatbelt, and if it is comfortable as it is pictured.
Did you disassemble the seatbelt unit?
I would really love to run a fixed back seat - I would like a snug
seat for my skinny 5'7" 138lb. self!! But I do not want to run
a harness in my daily driver (no cage, no helmet).
I always assumed you could not use the OEM belt with the high
seat bolster on the fixed back seats.
Please tell me more about your set up :)
Steve
| surferdude166 | 05-01-2005 10:46 PM |
It might not help really since your seats are already in, but recaro makes some seats that are direct PNP seats that have the airbags already in them. I'll edit when I find the model again.
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 10:55 PM |
Steve,
Routing the OEM seatbelt is not that difficult (just take your time):
There's one bolt at bottom of the B-pillar (close to leftside/rear seat bolt) that secures the OEM belt (lap)
-Take off rear seat bolts
-Take off plastic trim: rear left door sill and B-pillar(watch for the small hooks that hold it to the middle portion of B-Pillar)
-Pull carpet and take off seat belt (lap) bolt. The lap belt bracket has a small hook so just wiggle it loose.
-Pull belt out and route it thru the Sparco harness slots and re-assemble all of the above
Sparco seat bases have a bracket -See my pics above where the Eye-Bolt is mounted (loos like a ring) That bracket is there to mount your OEM seat latch. However I did not like it there as IMO it was a little difficult to latch the OEM belt. I relocated the OEM latches to the rear-right seat bolt on the driveshaft tunnel. I did have to "straighten" the latch metal bracket. I used a hammer and straightened it that way. The metal is fairly malleable, but the straightening may be permanent as it would be very difficult to re-shape it back to stock
The Sparco seat have high side bolsters. The OEM belts would not wrap you close to your body if you're skinny/average - there would be a gap due to the side high bolsters of the Sparco seats (and many othre brands, I imagine). That would not be too effective in stopping your body, should you be involved in a "sudden change of velocity"
Routing the belt thru the right side slot on the latch side will take you getting used to, as you need to seat/ lean to left / pass the belt clip thru slot and latch it. With practice it takes a second or 2. Alternatively, you can go over the right side bolster, but you would loose some of the belt effectiveness and may cause your body to rotate left during an impact. Again, that's my educated guess and by no means I know 100% how a driver's body will behave during a collision with the modifications shown here. Automotive engineers spend alot of time designing, testing and introducing alot of safety margins into a vehicle's safety devices. So if you're not at all sure about what you're doing , don't.
Hope that helps
- Roland
Routing the OEM seatbelt is not that difficult (just take your time):
There's one bolt at bottom of the B-pillar (close to leftside/rear seat bolt) that secures the OEM belt (lap)
-Take off rear seat bolts
-Take off plastic trim: rear left door sill and B-pillar(watch for the small hooks that hold it to the middle portion of B-Pillar)
-Pull carpet and take off seat belt (lap) bolt. The lap belt bracket has a small hook so just wiggle it loose.
-Pull belt out and route it thru the Sparco harness slots and re-assemble all of the above
Sparco seat bases have a bracket -See my pics above where the Eye-Bolt is mounted (loos like a ring) That bracket is there to mount your OEM seat latch. However I did not like it there as IMO it was a little difficult to latch the OEM belt. I relocated the OEM latches to the rear-right seat bolt on the driveshaft tunnel. I did have to "straighten" the latch metal bracket. I used a hammer and straightened it that way. The metal is fairly malleable, but the straightening may be permanent as it would be very difficult to re-shape it back to stock
The Sparco seat have high side bolsters. The OEM belts would not wrap you close to your body if you're skinny/average - there would be a gap due to the side high bolsters of the Sparco seats (and many othre brands, I imagine). That would not be too effective in stopping your body, should you be involved in a "sudden change of velocity"
Routing the belt thru the right side slot on the latch side will take you getting used to, as you need to seat/ lean to left / pass the belt clip thru slot and latch it. With practice it takes a second or 2. Alternatively, you can go over the right side bolster, but you would loose some of the belt effectiveness and may cause your body to rotate left during an impact. Again, that's my educated guess and by no means I know 100% how a driver's body will behave during a collision with the modifications shown here. Automotive engineers spend alot of time designing, testing and introducing alot of safety margins into a vehicle's safety devices. So if you're not at all sure about what you're doing , don't.
Hope that helps
- Roland
| engineerx | 05-01-2005 10:57 PM |
[QUOTE=surferdude166]It might not help really since your seats are already in, but recaro makes some seats that are direct PNP seats that have the airbags already in them. I'll edit when I find the model again.[/QUOTE]
post the link - very intered in seeing the Recaro seats!
That would be the proper way to do it as they're designed, tested & built.
post the link - very intered in seeing the Recaro seats!
That would be the proper way to do it as they're designed, tested & built.
| root | 05-05-2005 03:28 PM |
I didn't think the Recaro STi seats had the side air bag. I'd love to be wrong. Maybe it's new?
| engineerx | 05-05-2005 04:16 PM |
[QUOTE=root]I didn't think the Recaro STi seats had the side air bag. I'd love to be wrong. Maybe it's new?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/impreza/sti/interior/imgs/seat_sti_bt.jpg[/IMG]
Yeah - I was looking thru the Japanese site and they don't advertise side airbags
I appears only the USDM STI has them
[url]http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/impreza/sti/safety/index.html[/url]
[IMG]http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/impreza/sti/interior/imgs/seat_sti_bt.jpg[/IMG]
Yeah - I was looking thru the Japanese site and they don't advertise side airbags
I appears only the USDM STI has them
[url]http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/impreza/sti/safety/index.html[/url]
| Butt Dyno | 05-05-2005 04:43 PM |
There aren't going to be any aftermarket seats w/ airbags. Probably liability reasons and all that. Only way to get them is going to be to swap them from an OEM car (or mount them like the OP is doing)
| IronMonkeyL255 | 05-05-2005 05:53 PM |
That's pretty sweet.
It doesn't look too bad, either.
That brake ducting looks awesome. What kind of ducting are you using? I noticed you mentioned that the metal mesh hadn't made it into your final iteration. Do you have something else there to keep junk out of the ducting?
It doesn't look too bad, either.
That brake ducting looks awesome. What kind of ducting are you using? I noticed you mentioned that the metal mesh hadn't made it into your final iteration. Do you have something else there to keep junk out of the ducting?
| engineerx | 05-05-2005 10:30 PM |
[QUOTE=IronMonkeyL255]That's pretty sweet.
It doesn't look too bad, either.
That brake ducting looks awesome. What kind of ducting are you using? I noticed you mentioned that the metal mesh hadn't made it into your final iteration. Do you have something else there to keep junk out of the ducting?[/QUOTE]
That's the last part I need to make, I installed the seats, then started playing with the Hydra standalone EMS. I'll try to finish it this weekend. I'll post it when finished. I'll use a 3" round mesh insert where the duct attaches to the hose.
The ducting is 3" hi-temp duct and the duct intakes are plastic which I cut & glued to the foglight bezels. Stay tuned for the completed mod on the Brake & Suspension forum
It doesn't look too bad, either.
That brake ducting looks awesome. What kind of ducting are you using? I noticed you mentioned that the metal mesh hadn't made it into your final iteration. Do you have something else there to keep junk out of the ducting?[/QUOTE]
That's the last part I need to make, I installed the seats, then started playing with the Hydra standalone EMS. I'll try to finish it this weekend. I'll post it when finished. I'll use a 3" round mesh insert where the duct attaches to the hose.
The ducting is 3" hi-temp duct and the duct intakes are plastic which I cut & glued to the foglight bezels. Stay tuned for the completed mod on the Brake & Suspension forum
| kunfuzion | 05-06-2005 02:13 AM |
Hey Mike, my evo's touch the b-pillar also, but since me and my g/f have shorty legs it doesn't matter. :p I agree w/ engineerx as the evo's sit higher w/ the side mounts. mine sit even higher with the tabbed base mounts.
Engineerx, looks good, but doesnt the module get in the way of getting in and out?
Engineerx, looks good, but doesnt the module get in the way of getting in and out?
| engineerx | 05-06-2005 02:25 AM |
[QUOTE=kunfuzion]
Engineerx, looks good, but doesnt the module get in the way of getting in and out?[/QUOTE]
A little - I'm getting used to squeezing in & practicing the dismount .. I'm only 5'6" so it's not too much trouble :D
Engineerx, looks good, but doesnt the module get in the way of getting in and out?[/QUOTE]
A little - I'm getting used to squeezing in & practicing the dismount .. I'm only 5'6" so it's not too much trouble :D
| PA04STI | 05-11-2005 01:19 AM |
I am scared of taking out factory seat for aftermarket.
Two reasons:
- Auto Insurance
- Health Insurance
Being a nurse I know how insurance is they look for any reason to drop you. I mean auto insurance people don't know alot about cars, but I garantee they know when a car is in a wreck & the side airbags did not work or were not there. Also this could definitely affect your medical coverage in a wreck. I mean a car with side airbags should have side airbags its kinda like a warranty it will cover alot, but will never cover something that was modified internally etc. Even doing this side airbag thing I mean insurance is going to look at that seat like *** is this and trouble will follow. Even life insurance etc. I mean if there is a way for insurance to get out of something they will.
I hate my 04 STi seats, but would only upgrade to 05 seats or just get a seat to put it in when I race.
Just my 2 cents,
Matt
Two reasons:
- Auto Insurance
- Health Insurance
Being a nurse I know how insurance is they look for any reason to drop you. I mean auto insurance people don't know alot about cars, but I garantee they know when a car is in a wreck & the side airbags did not work or were not there. Also this could definitely affect your medical coverage in a wreck. I mean a car with side airbags should have side airbags its kinda like a warranty it will cover alot, but will never cover something that was modified internally etc. Even doing this side airbag thing I mean insurance is going to look at that seat like *** is this and trouble will follow. Even life insurance etc. I mean if there is a way for insurance to get out of something they will.
I hate my 04 STi seats, but would only upgrade to 05 seats or just get a seat to put it in when I race.
Just my 2 cents,
Matt
| engineerx | 05-11-2005 02:39 AM |
Matt,
completely valid point
Insurances will look for any excuse not pay!
Hopefully- in the event of an accident - I'll just get whiplash ..... as long as they pay for the car and I'm left able enough to keep driving :)
I just hate the stock seats... and thought about using the race seats just for track days... but too much of a hassle... so I'll take the chance.
I usually drive the airbag-less '88 Honda CRX HF everyday to work which I recently bought just so I can mess arund w/ the STi :lol:
completely valid point
Insurances will look for any excuse not pay!
Hopefully- in the event of an accident - I'll just get whiplash ..... as long as they pay for the car and I'm left able enough to keep driving :)
I just hate the stock seats... and thought about using the race seats just for track days... but too much of a hassle... so I'll take the chance.
I usually drive the airbag-less '88 Honda CRX HF everyday to work which I recently bought just so I can mess arund w/ the STi :lol:
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