| deuce.five | 06-29-2005 10:15 PM |
ST tires Any Favorites?
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Now that the favorite ST tires have been out a while, what's the verdict?
I'm happy with my Hankook's, and I know they've had some success on the Subaru's on the Tour.
Somebody told me the Azenis 615 won GRM's test.
Is lack of contingency the only reason nobody's using the Azenis 615?
I need 17" tires, 215/40-17, and I need more input.
I'm happy with my Hankook's, and I know they've had some success on the Subaru's on the Tour.
Somebody told me the Azenis 615 won GRM's test.
Is lack of contingency the only reason nobody's using the Azenis 615?
I need 17" tires, 215/40-17, and I need more input.
| trhoppe | 06-29-2005 10:21 PM |
Pick your favorite color.
Thats really how it is right now.
-Tom
Thats really how it is right now.
-Tom
| Scott Farmer | 06-29-2005 10:36 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Pick your favorite color.
Thats really how it is right now.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, maybe I'm out of the loop, but I still don't get the metaphor. Please enlighten me, Tom?
Thats really how it is right now.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, maybe I'm out of the loop, but I still don't get the metaphor. Please enlighten me, Tom?
| Jsortor | 06-29-2005 11:04 PM |
[QUOTE=Scott Farmer]Hmmm, maybe I'm out of the loop, but I still don't get the metaphor. Please enlighten me, Tom?[/QUOTE]
I introduced Tom to this concept. A friend of mine worked at a Bike shop. A kid came in and asked him what the best performing 250cc dirtbike would be for him to buy. My buddy replied to him "whats your favorite color?" The meaning is that all the bikes perform so well, and are so close to the same, this kid would not be able to tell a difference in performance. So, pick your color.
Nationally, you would be wise to choose a brand that could potentially pay you back for a good performance. Those would be Yokohama, Hankook, or Kumho.
I introduced Tom to this concept. A friend of mine worked at a Bike shop. A kid came in and asked him what the best performing 250cc dirtbike would be for him to buy. My buddy replied to him "whats your favorite color?" The meaning is that all the bikes perform so well, and are so close to the same, this kid would not be able to tell a difference in performance. So, pick your color.
Nationally, you would be wise to choose a brand that could potentially pay you back for a good performance. Those would be Yokohama, Hankook, or Kumho.
| deuce.five | 06-29-2005 11:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]I introduced Tom to this concept. A friend of mine worked at a Bike shop. A kid came in and asked him what the best performing 250cc dirtbike would be for him to buy. My buddy replied to him "whats your favorite color?" The meaning is that all the bikes perform so well, and are so close to the same, this kid would not be able to tell a difference in performance. So, pick your color.
Nationally, you would be wise to choose a brand that could potentially pay you back for a good performance. Those would be Yokohama, Hankook, or Kumho.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. So there's really no "clear winner".....just as I thought. IMO the 'Kooks feel REALLY good, and I was surprised they finished behind the Azenis in GRM's test.
Nationally, you would be wise to choose a brand that could potentially pay you back for a good performance. Those would be Yokohama, Hankook, or Kumho.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. So there's really no "clear winner".....just as I thought. IMO the 'Kooks feel REALLY good, and I was surprised they finished behind the Azenis in GRM's test.
| trhoppe | 06-29-2005 11:36 PM |
Yea, this was Josh's idea and I liked it so I stole it. Protest me! ;)
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom
| Draken | 06-29-2005 11:38 PM |
Hoppe: I dream of you
| solo-x | 06-29-2005 11:42 PM |
holy crap tom! either the kooks have a lot of grip or those sidewalls suck great hairy donkey schlong.
it may be a case of "pick your favorite color", but i know of some situations where the choice is made for you. i've learned how to fit 8 tires in my car comfortably, 12 if i use the passenger seat and leave the cooler home. i already see a need for at LEAST two full sets of tires for nats. maybe a third. at least with all the tires in the car it rides better!
nate
it may be a case of "pick your favorite color", but i know of some situations where the choice is made for you. i've learned how to fit 8 tires in my car comfortably, 12 if i use the passenger seat and leave the cooler home. i already see a need for at LEAST two full sets of tires for nats. maybe a third. at least with all the tires in the car it rides better!
nate
| Imprezivblue | 06-29-2005 11:47 PM |
There are sooooo many different reasons why the test was flawed to begin with. IMO, the test would have been conducted at the very least under the same conditions. IE All the tires were watered down in between runs, or a test where none of them were watered down in-between runs (this isn't he only 'flaw' in the test. . .and its a test that has raised room for lots of debate). Everyone knows that the azenis need to be watered down because they become greasy. The kooks are fairly new and some people are finding out it is also helpful for them to be kept cool in increasingly warm weather. All those "top 6" tires are competitive, but some will compliment some driving styles over others. Some people like stiffer sidewalls (ie azenis) and some like softer ones such as the kooks. I'm not a fair judge to say which is the better tire. I've only driven on the old azenis and the hankooks (both in different STX wrxs) and I currently have the kooks for my RS. I love them. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. The tires are a crap shoot. I firmly believe that once your use to a specific tire, you can drive well on them.
CN- there's no "favorite". drive what you want. i'm takin the kooks.
PS- i'm a n00b so take the info for what you want.
CN- there's no "favorite". drive what you want. i'm takin the kooks.
PS- i'm a n00b so take the info for what you want.
| deuce.five | 06-29-2005 11:57 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Yea, this was Josh's idea and I liked it so I stole it. Protest me! ;)
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking of trying some rear toe-out. Or less camber in the rear. What are the differences in feel?
If the rears are wearing and heating evenly which one should I try?
My car is pretty neutral at Bremerton, but gets pushy on the grippier stuff like Packwood. read: old asphalt vs. new asphalt.
I've been running 36 psi in my 225/45-16 'kooks with good results.
The Tour is coming to Packwood, help me spank(or at least get close to) the civics.
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking of trying some rear toe-out. Or less camber in the rear. What are the differences in feel?
If the rears are wearing and heating evenly which one should I try?
My car is pretty neutral at Bremerton, but gets pushy on the grippier stuff like Packwood. read: old asphalt vs. new asphalt.
I've been running 36 psi in my 225/45-16 'kooks with good results.
The Tour is coming to Packwood, help me spank(or at least get close to) the civics.
| DrBiggly | 06-30-2005 12:01 AM |
Man, the difference in less rear camber vs. rear toe out is notable, but hard to put into words.
I think that more rear toe deals with sweepers better than less rear camber. However, I'm of the feeling that the rear camber bit helps in slaloms more. Mainly because inherently it's just not quite as loose.
Really, I think it's what you like for setup. Try both and see which works best for you. Also, something that's an easy method of adjustment (depending on if you have rear camber plates, or rear toe adjustments that are quick, etc.) would make a good deciding factor.
I'm not sold on the merits of either one to be honest, but a little rear toe out is typically quite quick. :)
-Biggly
I think that more rear toe deals with sweepers better than less rear camber. However, I'm of the feeling that the rear camber bit helps in slaloms more. Mainly because inherently it's just not quite as loose.
Really, I think it's what you like for setup. Try both and see which works best for you. Also, something that's an easy method of adjustment (depending on if you have rear camber plates, or rear toe adjustments that are quick, etc.) would make a good deciding factor.
I'm not sold on the merits of either one to be honest, but a little rear toe out is typically quite quick. :)
-Biggly
| deuce.five | 06-30-2005 01:27 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Man, the difference in less rear camber vs. rear toe out is notable, but hard to put into words.
I think that more rear toe deals with sweepers better than less rear camber. However, I'm of the feeling that the rear camber bit helps in slaloms more. Mainly because inherently it's just not quite as loose.
Really, I think it's what you like for setup. Try both and see which works best for you. Also, something that's an easy method of adjustment (depending on if you have rear camber plates, or rear toe adjustments that are quick, etc.) would make a good deciding factor.
I'm not sold on the merits of either one to be honest, but a little rear toe out is typically quite quick. :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the reply. I need more practice days, I haven't "played" with the set-up enough.
I think that more rear toe deals with sweepers better than less rear camber. However, I'm of the feeling that the rear camber bit helps in slaloms more. Mainly because inherently it's just not quite as loose.
Really, I think it's what you like for setup. Try both and see which works best for you. Also, something that's an easy method of adjustment (depending on if you have rear camber plates, or rear toe adjustments that are quick, etc.) would make a good deciding factor.
I'm not sold on the merits of either one to be honest, but a little rear toe out is typically quite quick. :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the reply. I need more practice days, I haven't "played" with the set-up enough.
| jcroy66 | 06-30-2005 07:47 AM |
[QUOTE=Imprezivblue]There are sooooo many different reasons why the test was flawed to begin with. IMO, the test would have been conducted at the very least under the same conditions. IE All the tires were watered down in between runs, or a test where none of them were watered down in-between runs[/QUOTE]Negative!! That WOULD have made it a flawed test!
Some tires LIKE the heat. Some tires need to be kept cool. The way GRM conducted it is EXACTLY how I would have - spray the ones that need it, don't spray the ones that don't. So spray the Azenis 215s, 615s, Hankooks, and Yokohamas. Don't spray the KDs or the MXs.
Please note this was a test for Solo2 tires. A test for ProSolo tires would have been slightly different. In a ProSolo test, none of the tires would have been sprayed - you'd have done 4 back-to-back runs on a short course. Then, before doing other runs, you would spray them if needed.
FWIW, we nearly always spray the MXs at Solo2s, but that's because we dual-drive the car. We spray them just enough to keep them at the hot-and-sticky point without boiling them. At this weekend's Tour, for instance, I'll be on the Yokohamas in STXL. I might or might not spray them, depending on how hot they start getting. I believe Phil will be on the Kumhos in STX. With just one driver, we will not be spraying them.
I am curious to hear what other deficiencies you think GRM's test had?? They shaved all tires. Excellent. They kept the tires at optimum conditions for that particular tire model. Excellent. They had multiple drivers. Good. They used the same tire size for all tires. Now, that may not answer my personal question of which tire is best for MY application, but this was the only fair way to conduct this test, given that the entire ST* community is using the results, not just "me". :) So that qualifies as a "Good". I haven't heard what the test course(s?) was like, so can't comment on that. Sounds like they had a decently set up test car, as far as camber, etc. So what's your concern with the test??
As for why are people not on the 615s if they're the "best" tire? Several reasons:
1. Tire sizing. There is not currently a good size 615 available for STX WRXs. We want a 245/35/17, a 235/40/17, or a 245/40/17. I don't know about sizing for the STS cars.
2. Need to shave. Most of the people who have tried the 615s got them full-tread. And most hated them. As people are wearing them down, they are finding the tire is MUCH better, and sounds like it is actually a contender. But with the early adopters having such bad experiences, people were less willing to try them.
3. Cost. For those where cost was a primary consideration, the Hankooks were cheaper. For Hankook-shod entries, also see Point #1 (and #4 below).
4. Contingency. Yokohama has awesome Pro money up for grabs. Kumho has offered good money. Hankook has a decent program, although it's in the form of "Hankook dollars" rather than USD.
5. Still no evidence that the 615s are "the" tire. Thus, see Points #1, #3, and #4.
Some tires LIKE the heat. Some tires need to be kept cool. The way GRM conducted it is EXACTLY how I would have - spray the ones that need it, don't spray the ones that don't. So spray the Azenis 215s, 615s, Hankooks, and Yokohamas. Don't spray the KDs or the MXs.
Please note this was a test for Solo2 tires. A test for ProSolo tires would have been slightly different. In a ProSolo test, none of the tires would have been sprayed - you'd have done 4 back-to-back runs on a short course. Then, before doing other runs, you would spray them if needed.
FWIW, we nearly always spray the MXs at Solo2s, but that's because we dual-drive the car. We spray them just enough to keep them at the hot-and-sticky point without boiling them. At this weekend's Tour, for instance, I'll be on the Yokohamas in STXL. I might or might not spray them, depending on how hot they start getting. I believe Phil will be on the Kumhos in STX. With just one driver, we will not be spraying them.
I am curious to hear what other deficiencies you think GRM's test had?? They shaved all tires. Excellent. They kept the tires at optimum conditions for that particular tire model. Excellent. They had multiple drivers. Good. They used the same tire size for all tires. Now, that may not answer my personal question of which tire is best for MY application, but this was the only fair way to conduct this test, given that the entire ST* community is using the results, not just "me". :) So that qualifies as a "Good". I haven't heard what the test course(s?) was like, so can't comment on that. Sounds like they had a decently set up test car, as far as camber, etc. So what's your concern with the test??
As for why are people not on the 615s if they're the "best" tire? Several reasons:
1. Tire sizing. There is not currently a good size 615 available for STX WRXs. We want a 245/35/17, a 235/40/17, or a 245/40/17. I don't know about sizing for the STS cars.
2. Need to shave. Most of the people who have tried the 615s got them full-tread. And most hated them. As people are wearing them down, they are finding the tire is MUCH better, and sounds like it is actually a contender. But with the early adopters having such bad experiences, people were less willing to try them.
3. Cost. For those where cost was a primary consideration, the Hankooks were cheaper. For Hankook-shod entries, also see Point #1 (and #4 below).
4. Contingency. Yokohama has awesome Pro money up for grabs. Kumho has offered good money. Hankook has a decent program, although it's in the form of "Hankook dollars" rather than USD.
5. Still no evidence that the 615s are "the" tire. Thus, see Points #1, #3, and #4.
| Corey | 06-30-2005 08:11 AM |
[QUOTE=deuce.five]The Tour is coming to Packwood, help me spank(or at least get close to) the civics.[/QUOTE]
Good luck with that. It sounds like you are set on the Hankook. The best advice that I can give you with that tire is to make sure that you are worn down to about 1/32nd by the Tour. Or get a new set shaved to about 2/32nds.
Corey #89 STS
Good luck with that. It sounds like you are set on the Hankook. The best advice that I can give you with that tire is to make sure that you are worn down to about 1/32nd by the Tour. Or get a new set shaved to about 2/32nds.
Corey #89 STS
| Jsortor | 06-30-2005 09:40 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Yea, this was Josh's idea and I liked it so I stole it. Protest me! ;)
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
With my set-up, the Hankooks felt pretty good with the same set-up as the KD's. The Yokohamas have really tightened the car up though, so just like you, I am having to adjust things to loosen it back up. In your (anyone?) opinion, what does this tightening up mean? More grip? Is less sidewall stiffness the reason? Less grip? It is interesting to have the car change so much just because of tires. It is concerning that I can't pin-point why the change happened and if it is good or not.
The Kooks made the car really pushy and we had to do a lot to loosen up Biggly's car. -4.0F, 0.0R Camber and 1/4" rear toe out and the car is a dream.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
With my set-up, the Hankooks felt pretty good with the same set-up as the KD's. The Yokohamas have really tightened the car up though, so just like you, I am having to adjust things to loosen it back up. In your (anyone?) opinion, what does this tightening up mean? More grip? Is less sidewall stiffness the reason? Less grip? It is interesting to have the car change so much just because of tires. It is concerning that I can't pin-point why the change happened and if it is good or not.
| trhoppe | 06-30-2005 10:07 AM |
If it was less grip, then the rear of the car would break away sooner. I dunno if you run on asphalt, but the car is always looser on asphalt then it is on concrete because of the fact that you have less grip.
I think its a combination of a more lateral grip as well as a softer sidewall.
-Tom
I think its a combination of a more lateral grip as well as a softer sidewall.
-Tom
| solo-x | 06-30-2005 10:50 AM |
tom is correct. that is why all of us in the North East have a hard time getting our cars loose enough at sites like topeka, peru, and toledo. the concrete has so much more grip then the asphault we are used to running on. look for NE people to start doing much better at nats once it goes to heartland park.
here's something that i've thought about though. i always felt the mx's had less grip then the 215 azenis because the car was so much looser on the mx's. confusing since the mx's had proven to be pretty damn quick. however, i failed to take into account that the rear tires weren't getting as hot. conversly, one could assume that some of the push with these newer tires is due in part to tire temps as well. overheat the front tires and then bring the rears up to optimal temp and you could have a pushier car that doesn't necessarily have more grip. the only thing i've learned for certain this year is that mx's don't make good rain tires. beyond that, pick your poison.
nate
here's something that i've thought about though. i always felt the mx's had less grip then the 215 azenis because the car was so much looser on the mx's. confusing since the mx's had proven to be pretty damn quick. however, i failed to take into account that the rear tires weren't getting as hot. conversly, one could assume that some of the push with these newer tires is due in part to tire temps as well. overheat the front tires and then bring the rears up to optimal temp and you could have a pushier car that doesn't necessarily have more grip. the only thing i've learned for certain this year is that mx's don't make good rain tires. beyond that, pick your poison.
nate
| jcroy66 | 06-30-2005 11:04 AM |
Toledo has a lot more grip than your asphalt?? Wow. Yikes.
| TheWRX | 06-30-2005 11:18 AM |
[QUOTE=solo-x]i failed to take into account that the rear tires weren't getting as hot.[/QUOTE]
I believe Andy Hollis normally runs full tread tires in the rear and shaved tires in the front for exactly this reason. Since full tread tires tend to heat up quicker, that compensates for the fact that the rear tires have less load on them.
I believe Andy Hollis normally runs full tread tires in the rear and shaved tires in the front for exactly this reason. Since full tread tires tend to heat up quicker, that compensates for the fact that the rear tires have less load on them.
| KC | 06-30-2005 11:31 AM |
[QUOTE=jcroy66]Toledo has a lot more grip than your asphalt?? Wow. Yikes.[/QUOTE]
Yes..
Yes..
| Jsortor | 06-30-2005 11:46 AM |
I run on asphalt all the time except for national events at Atwater and Wendover, so I guess I am in the same boat as you guys. Funny though, maybe it is the higher speed courses, but I tend to get more "out of shape" on the concrete, and have to smooth out my driving to control it. Maybe it is because of the progressive loss of grip on most asphalt as opposed to the stick better-slide situation you get on concrete.
| DrBiggly | 06-30-2005 01:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]... Maybe it is because of the progressive loss of grip on most asphalt as opposed to the stick better-slide situation you get on concrete.[/QUOTE]
That's my personal feeling on it. :)
-Biggly
That's my personal feeling on it. :)
-Biggly
| DougM | 06-30-2005 03:36 PM |
imho, shave your kooks for the NAT's
later, when you recover from your spending spree, buy some new tires for your new wheels.
:)
later, when you recover from your spending spree, buy some new tires for your new wheels.
:)
| jmott | 06-30-2005 03:47 PM |
rear toe out feels like your car is on crack
haha
haha
| omahasubaru | 06-30-2005 03:49 PM |
Rt-215
| Jsortor | 06-30-2005 04:41 PM |
[QUOTE=jmott]rear toe out feels like your car is on crack
haha[/QUOTE]
Crack is Gud.
haha[/QUOTE]
Crack is Gud.
| KC | 06-30-2005 05:08 PM |
I had a 1/2" rear toe out on my car last weekend... and still couldn't get it to rotate in the tight crap.
| deuce.five | 06-30-2005 08:15 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]Good luck with that. It sounds like you are set on the Hankook. The best advice that I can give you with that tire is to make sure that you are worn down to about 1/32nd by the Tour. Or get a new set shaved to about 2/32nds.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm not completely sold on the Hankook, that's why I started this thread. I'm looking at a 215/40-17, available in Z212, 615, and MX. I was planning on getting them shaved, but only to 4/32", maybe I should go further....OR should I get the 225/45-16 Z212's shaved? slight gearing advantage with the 215-40's.
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm not completely sold on the Hankook, that's why I started this thread. I'm looking at a 215/40-17, available in Z212, 615, and MX. I was planning on getting them shaved, but only to 4/32", maybe I should go further....OR should I get the 225/45-16 Z212's shaved? slight gearing advantage with the 215-40's.
| Corey | 06-30-2005 08:48 PM |
[QUOTE=deuce.five]Actually, I'm not completely sold on the Hankook, that's why I started this thread. I'm looking at a 215/40-17, available in Z212, 615, and MX. I was planning on getting them shaved, but only to 4/32", maybe I should go further....OR should I get the 225/45-16 Z212's shaved? slight gearing advantage with the 215-40's.[/QUOTE]
Well... the only problem with the 215/40/17 is that it gives up ALOT of tread width compared to any of the other sizes that you are looking at. I can't say that I haven't contemplated them myself... but that darn voice in the back of my head keeps me from taking the plunge.
Care to try some $$$ tires? How about the Toyo T1-R? Never tried that one myself... Or how about the Advan AD-07? Could the grip be worth taking the hit on gearing/weight?
Honestly, I have more questions than answers right now. Check the results from some past tours/pro's. Seems like a different tire is winning all the time!
:furious:
Corey #89 STS
Well... the only problem with the 215/40/17 is that it gives up ALOT of tread width compared to any of the other sizes that you are looking at. I can't say that I haven't contemplated them myself... but that darn voice in the back of my head keeps me from taking the plunge.
Care to try some $$$ tires? How about the Toyo T1-R? Never tried that one myself... Or how about the Advan AD-07? Could the grip be worth taking the hit on gearing/weight?
Honestly, I have more questions than answers right now. Check the results from some past tours/pro's. Seems like a different tire is winning all the time!
:furious:
Corey #89 STS
| DrBiggly | 06-30-2005 09:13 PM |
Re: Crack
�
�
Word. :cool:
| deuce.five | 06-30-2005 09:21 PM |
[QUOTE=Corey]
Honestly, I have more questions than answers right now. Check the results from some past tours/pro's. Seems like a different tire is winning all the time!
:furious:
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Corey, Thanks very much for your help. I know that you are pretty much "the" STS Subaru guy.
It really does seem like "pick your favorite color/flavor"
Is the Yoko AD-07 same as the Neova? seems like 225/45-17 is awfully tall....
Honestly, I have more questions than answers right now. Check the results from some past tours/pro's. Seems like a different tire is winning all the time!
:furious:
Corey #89 STS[/QUOTE]
Corey, Thanks very much for your help. I know that you are pretty much "the" STS Subaru guy.
It really does seem like "pick your favorite color/flavor"
Is the Yoko AD-07 same as the Neova? seems like 225/45-17 is awfully tall....
| PhilC | 06-30-2005 09:52 PM |
Yep the Neova is the AD-07, we bought some full tread 225/45s to put on our 17x7s to use as rain and daily driver tires. I got to try them in the rain Saturday in Toledo, and then in the dry on Sunday to see what they would do. I loved them in the rain and hated them in the dry, not sure if it was the pavement, the tire or more than likely the driver who had his head up his ass. A week of street driving later we tried them again in the dry at a local event in Columbus and I actually found that I quite liked them on fairly high grip asphault. They felt like the 215s to me more than any of the other choices we've tried so far, basically the same feel except there was noticeable tread squirm at full depth which the 215s never had. Definitely not the same feel as our shaved MXs on the same pavement but I am really considering getting a set of shaved Neovas for the Toledo Pro to see what they can do and how they compare to shaved MXs on the slippery concrete of Toledo.
Like Josh and Tom have pointed out, if you do any national level events you'd be foolish to not use one of the tires that pays. Yoks contingency is very very good, Kumhos is as well and even Hankook is offerening Hankook dollars. There's your three tires that I think you'll continue to see most of the national drivers on this year.
Like Josh and Tom have pointed out, if you do any national level events you'd be foolish to not use one of the tires that pays. Yoks contingency is very very good, Kumhos is as well and even Hankook is offerening Hankook dollars. There's your three tires that I think you'll continue to see most of the national drivers on this year.
| Draken | 06-30-2005 10:33 PM |
A 225/45-17 can be useful on a 2.5RS for longer courses. I have not been to the Packwood site yet, but Bremerton courses can get fairly fast. As can Wendover etc.
Hiroo Sumida ran 225/45-17 Azenis on his ST 2.5RS back in 2003.
If I were doing an STS 2.5RS I would would have a 225/45-16 and 225/45-17 option.
Chris H.
Hiroo Sumida ran 225/45-17 Azenis on his ST 2.5RS back in 2003.
If I were doing an STS 2.5RS I would would have a 225/45-16 and 225/45-17 option.
Chris H.
| Jsortor | 06-30-2005 11:22 PM |
Phil,
To add to your point about the mediocre feeling you had on the Neovas. I put 245's on my 8 wide wheels, full tread depth, and thought they felt very vague and slow to transition. These baby's are wide though, nearly as wide as my old KD's. That tells me that if you were running the 225's on a 7 wide wheel, full tread depth, you were probably getting the same feeling as I did. I think the tire, with its softer-than-some sidewall, is extra sensitive rim width. Too narrow of rim + full tread depth = very vague. The 235 is squared up on my 8's and shaved and feel great. If possible, I would not go less than 8 wide on either the 225 or 235, and think the 245 is too wide for our class. The 245's were squared up on 9 wide wheels on Jungs Evo!
To add to your point about the mediocre feeling you had on the Neovas. I put 245's on my 8 wide wheels, full tread depth, and thought they felt very vague and slow to transition. These baby's are wide though, nearly as wide as my old KD's. That tells me that if you were running the 225's on a 7 wide wheel, full tread depth, you were probably getting the same feeling as I did. I think the tire, with its softer-than-some sidewall, is extra sensitive rim width. Too narrow of rim + full tread depth = very vague. The 235 is squared up on my 8's and shaved and feel great. If possible, I would not go less than 8 wide on either the 225 or 235, and think the 245 is too wide for our class. The 245's were squared up on 9 wide wheels on Jungs Evo!
| solo-x | 06-30-2005 11:33 PM |
you know you've gone to far with rear toe out when DADDIO says "no wonder! that thing'll spin like a top!" i've heard that. he was laughing because i was confused why the car was so damn evil in slaloms at nationals 2 yrs ago. well, gee, over 1/2" toe out, 800lb rear springs, monster rear bar, 60+psi in the rear tires, rear shocks turned all the way up, fronts all the way down... turned real nice in sweepers though! :hammer:
er, right, back on topic. these new tires... i'll know for sure this weekend if the new azenis feel better for me when shaved. fronts are at 3/32's, rears at 2/32's. did i mention these were BRAND FREAKIN NEW 1 WEEK AGO!!! i've got 2 mx's left that will work fine as rears if i still hate these damn things and decide to go back to kumho. if i do, i have to get new fronts which i'll be shaving those right to 2/32's as well. worth .5s over 60s on course for me. not grip, JUST feel. chang on the other hand is faster on tires that squirm more.
if times are close to equal for me on both mx and 615 i WILL be showing up at nats with one set shaved 615's at 1/32 for if it is cool, one set full depth 615's (205/40/16) for if it rains, and one set mx's also shaved to 1/32 for if it is hot. of course, that ignores further 215 testing. if those tires still work better for me, there is a set sitting in waiting just for nats. those will be shaved to 4/32's and will double for if it rains. oh, yeah, go ST classes! save a bunch on tire costs!!!! :sarcastic:
nate - fugg this, i'm going to CM next year
er, right, back on topic. these new tires... i'll know for sure this weekend if the new azenis feel better for me when shaved. fronts are at 3/32's, rears at 2/32's. did i mention these were BRAND FREAKIN NEW 1 WEEK AGO!!! i've got 2 mx's left that will work fine as rears if i still hate these damn things and decide to go back to kumho. if i do, i have to get new fronts which i'll be shaving those right to 2/32's as well. worth .5s over 60s on course for me. not grip, JUST feel. chang on the other hand is faster on tires that squirm more.
if times are close to equal for me on both mx and 615 i WILL be showing up at nats with one set shaved 615's at 1/32 for if it is cool, one set full depth 615's (205/40/16) for if it rains, and one set mx's also shaved to 1/32 for if it is hot. of course, that ignores further 215 testing. if those tires still work better for me, there is a set sitting in waiting just for nats. those will be shaved to 4/32's and will double for if it rains. oh, yeah, go ST classes! save a bunch on tire costs!!!! :sarcastic:
nate - fugg this, i'm going to CM next year
| Jsortor | 06-30-2005 11:37 PM |
^^^^ :lol: :lol: :lol:
| DougM | 07-01-2005 12:16 AM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]If possible, I would not go less than 8 wide on either the 225 or 235, and think the 245 is too wide for our class. The 245's were squared up on 9 wide wheels on Jungs Evo![/QUOTE]
I just put the 245/40 yokes on my STi ...and they really are really fat. this is with the OE 7.5" BBS... I have no opinions yet, I'll have some after the weekend for sure. so far they are quiet and comfortable....
I just put the 245/40 yokes on my STi ...and they really are really fat. this is with the OE 7.5" BBS... I have no opinions yet, I'll have some after the weekend for sure. so far they are quiet and comfortable....
| cgroppi | 07-01-2005 02:01 AM |
Does anyone have any preference for an unshaved ST tire, given I only drive in local events? I daily drive my car, and don't have a second set of wheels, so I won't be shaving whatever I get next. The MXs I have now certainly weren't all that great until I wore them down by half, but were still tolerable. It would be nice if I could replace them with a tire that would deliver good performance for most of their life.
| TheWRX | 07-01-2005 08:02 AM |
Is anybody else surprised at the victory margin of the RT-615 in the GRM test? I just got my issue yesterday, and I expected the race to be much closer. They do say that the Hankooks and Yokos might profit from some setup changes.
cgroppi: Azenis RT-215 work fine without shaving. And they're cheap. They would probably be a good choice for what you're planning to do. With the money you save compared to some other options, replace them sooner. They can heat cycle out before the tread is completely gone.
cgroppi: Azenis RT-215 work fine without shaving. And they're cheap. They would probably be a good choice for what you're planning to do. With the money you save compared to some other options, replace them sooner. They can heat cycle out before the tread is completely gone.
| Subdued | 07-01-2005 08:41 AM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX]cgroppi: Azenis RT-215 work fine without shaving. And they're cheap. They would probably be a good choice for what you're planning to do. With the money you save compared to some other options, replace them sooner. They can heat cycle out before the tread is completely gone.[/QUOTE]
If you want the 215's you should probably hurry to grab a set before they are gone.
If you want the 215's you should probably hurry to grab a set before they are gone.
| Jsortor | 07-01-2005 09:32 AM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX]Is anybody else surprised at the victory margin of the RT-615 in the GRM test? I just got my issue yesterday, and I expected the race to be much closer. They do say that the Hankooks and Yokos might profit from some setup changes.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe I would be suprised if I got the stoopid magazine! Mine has not come yet.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe I would be suprised if I got the stoopid magazine! Mine has not come yet.
| TheWRX | 07-01-2005 10:00 AM |
[QUOTE=Jsortor]Maybe I would be suprised if I got the stoopid magazine![/QUOTE]
Patience, man! :lol:
I'm at work without the magazine now. But if I remember the data correctly, the RT-615 was over 0.4s faster than all others with the faster driver (Chris Harvey). With Per driving, it was also the fastest, but the difference was smaller.
Patience, man! :lol:
I'm at work without the magazine now. But if I remember the data correctly, the RT-615 was over 0.4s faster than all others with the faster driver (Chris Harvey). With Per driving, it was also the fastest, but the difference was smaller.
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