| afpdl | 10-07-2004 02:35 PM |
Strut failure and Proof the STi rear lsd doesnt do anything
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So this weekend one of my jic coilovers snapped in two during an autox(thank God I had a double driver) and I just happened to have a cone cam mounted right behind the offending strut.
[url]http://tyrannoracing.com/Vid/glilly.mpeg[/url]
From inside the car it just felt like a snap spin so my codriver put in in 1st and gave it some gas which resulted in absolutly nothing.
[url]http://tyrannoracing.com/Vid/glilly.mpeg[/url]
From inside the car it just felt like a snap spin so my codriver put in in 1st and gave it some gas which resulted in absolutly nothing.
| PaulC | 10-07-2004 02:47 PM |
Still downloading the video.. but if you lost a wheel completely the LSD won't do anything. Since it's a gear-type differential it operates as a torque-multiplier, if there's no torque on one wheel you get nothing.
Edit: Just watched the video. That must make you sick watching the wheel fly out like that. :mad:
Edit: Just watched the video. That must make you sick watching the wheel fly out like that. :mad:
| Butt Dyno | 10-07-2004 02:51 PM |
How long had you had the coilovers? That's crazy..
john
john
| TyrannoSullyRex | 10-07-2004 03:00 PM |
PaulC doesn't grasp the sarcasm methinks.
| 04RedWRX | 10-07-2004 03:11 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]How long had you had the coilovers? That's crazy..
john[/QUOTE]
Makes you kinda wonder doesn't it John?
Bruce
john[/QUOTE]
Makes you kinda wonder doesn't it John?
Bruce
| KC | 10-07-2004 03:13 PM |
Current discussion in Suspension Forum: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642564[/url]
| forced4 | 10-07-2004 03:14 PM |
Oh Snap! It was a nice spin to see in person for sure :D
| PaulC | 10-07-2004 03:17 PM |
[QUOTE=TyrannoSullyRex]PaulC doesn't grasp the sarcasm methinks.[/QUOTE]
That is correct! Totally missed any sarcasm there.
That is correct! Totally missed any sarcasm there.
| afpdl | 10-07-2004 03:23 PM |
Between 8-12,000 miles. Less then a year.
And yes sarcasm.
And yes sarcasm.
| Butt Dyno | 10-07-2004 03:25 PM |
[QUOTE=04RedWRX]Makes you kinda wonder doesn't it John?[/quote]Not really, someone broke a set of Zero2R's at nationals too, and there are tons of people autocrossing on these things. Anything is possible, but some things are unlikely enough that you can't worry about em.
john
john
| afpdl | 10-07-2004 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Not really, someone broke a set of Zero2R's at nationals too, and there are tons of people autocrossing on these things. Anything is possible, but some things are unlikely enough that you can't worry about em.
john[quote]
john[quote]
| AlpineFD | 10-07-2004 08:59 PM |
I've seen another STi JIC coilver fail, it was at streets of willow race way, the owner went off track, and the coilover snapped at the strut bolt mounting point.
| rautox | 10-07-2004 09:29 PM |
I'm gonna go hug my teins. Yikes. :eek:
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-07-2004 10:28 PM |
[QUOTE=PaulC]Still downloading the video.. but if you lost a wheel completely the LSD won't do anything. Since it's a gear-type differential it operates as a torque-multiplier, if there's no torque on one wheel you get nothing.
[/QUOTE]
The rear diff on the STi is a plate type, not a gear type.
If the CV joint and axle was still stuck to the bent over wheel, it could have prevented forward motion from the other side due to the LSD (revving due to clutch slip...?)
And unless the DCCD had gone into failure mode (due to loss of ABS sensor wire) then there should have been some drive from the front.
Glenn
PS any damage to the diff housing (from the axle trauma?)
[/QUOTE]
The rear diff on the STi is a plate type, not a gear type.
If the CV joint and axle was still stuck to the bent over wheel, it could have prevented forward motion from the other side due to the LSD (revving due to clutch slip...?)
And unless the DCCD had gone into failure mode (due to loss of ABS sensor wire) then there should have been some drive from the front.
Glenn
PS any damage to the diff housing (from the axle trauma?)
| afpdl | 10-08-2004 01:36 AM |
I guess you guys havent seen the pics yet
[url]http://tyrannoracing.com/images/afpdl/[/url] they are the ones titled img_ Pay no attention to the other pics in that file.
The axel pulled completely free. Putting it in first and letting the clutch out slowly just spins the free axel, I didnt want to screw with locking the center diff or anything while the car only had 3 wheels. In the vid we only went to low revs in first, since we didnt feel any forward motion we stopped trying to get the car to move. There is no visible damage to the axel to diff area just axel to wheel.
This weekend ill get up in the air, taken apart, and see if the front is still getting power if not then Ill call it a rwd mod :lol: [COLOR=SlateGray]<<Thats sarcasm again[/COLOR]
[url]http://tyrannoracing.com/images/afpdl/[/url] they are the ones titled img_ Pay no attention to the other pics in that file.
The axel pulled completely free. Putting it in first and letting the clutch out slowly just spins the free axel, I didnt want to screw with locking the center diff or anything while the car only had 3 wheels. In the vid we only went to low revs in first, since we didnt feel any forward motion we stopped trying to get the car to move. There is no visible damage to the axel to diff area just axel to wheel.
This weekend ill get up in the air, taken apart, and see if the front is still getting power if not then Ill call it a rwd mod :lol: [COLOR=SlateGray]<<Thats sarcasm again[/COLOR]
| afpdl | 10-08-2004 01:40 AM |
[QUOTE=AlpineFD]I've seen another STi JIC coilver fail, it was at streets of willow race way, the owner went off track, and the coilover snapped at the strut bolt mounting point.[/QUOTE]
Lemme guess, rear strut?
Lemme guess, rear strut?
| patr | 10-08-2004 02:40 AM |
just FYI the only **possible** way to drive the car with an axle out and any amount of torque is actually to LOCK the EMCD. think about it. It heats it up, but its doing its job. Obvisouly if you keep driving the crap out of it before long, then it overheats, but you can limp pretty far like that taking care not to overheat it.
you can do it without locking it, but have to be very very gentle with the application of torque, and you have to have more lock, the more torque you apply
a generally loose auto-x setup (which most people seem to run), i.e. towards open or on auto, will almost never work with a shaft off
I'm not talking from armchair experience here.
you can do it without locking it, but have to be very very gentle with the application of torque, and you have to have more lock, the more torque you apply
a generally loose auto-x setup (which most people seem to run), i.e. towards open or on auto, will almost never work with a shaft off
I'm not talking from armchair experience here.
| afpdl | 10-08-2004 02:42 AM |
I would tend to agree with you, also not armchair experiance.
| subiekid | 10-08-2004 03:55 AM |
Wow, you seem really calm about this. I would have been supper pissed. Good luck.
| afpdl | 10-08-2004 04:01 AM |
And it happened on my 21st bday too. Life goes on, no one got hurt there are worst things that could have happened. Im not happy about it but you got to make the best of what you get, and I cant stop laughing at the video. The car is getting like 6 degrees of positive camber on that run.
| MRF582 | 10-08-2004 04:41 AM |
wow, i know a couple people running JIC coilovers. i guess i better tell them to switch them out immediately.
haha, j/k.
haha, j/k.
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-08-2004 09:34 AM |
[QUOTE=patr]just FYI the only **possible** way to drive the car with an axle out and any amount of torque is actually to LOCK the EMCD. think about it. It heats it up, but its doing its job. Obvisouly if you keep driving the crap out of it before long, then it overheats, but you can limp pretty far like that taking care not to overheat it.[/QUOTE]
Duh, now I realize why auto mode wouldn't have worked.... no wheels rotating means no ABS signals means no detection of slippage.
Glenn
Duh, now I realize why auto mode wouldn't have worked.... no wheels rotating means no ABS signals means no detection of slippage.
Glenn
| Fred | 10-08-2004 10:59 AM |
You need to tell your co-driver to stop being so afraid of the cones. :lol:
Cool video, sucks about the strut failure. :( Amazing how you just happened to have a video camera right there when it happened. :eek:
Cool video, sucks about the strut failure. :( Amazing how you just happened to have a video camera right there when it happened. :eek:
| TyrannoSullyRex | 10-08-2004 11:19 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred]You need to tell your co-driver to stop being so afraid of the cones. :lol: [/QUOTE]
That was that guy's first time ever to autocross, he's normally a show car guy and we convinced him to come out and co-drive with the owner of the (now) brokeded STI. Hell of a first time.
That was that guy's first time ever to autocross, he's normally a show car guy and we convinced him to come out and co-drive with the owner of the (now) brokeded STI. Hell of a first time.
| Fred | 10-08-2004 12:20 PM |
:eek:
:lol:
I wonder if he'll do it again?
:lol:
I wonder if he'll do it again?
| AlpineFD | 10-08-2004 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Lemme guess, rear strut?[/QUOTE]
correct sir, his axle fell off too, luckily he had rota torques on at the time, would suck even more if he damaged the bbs.
correct sir, his axle fell off too, luckily he had rota torques on at the time, would suck even more if he damaged the bbs.
| afpdl | 10-08-2004 01:56 PM |
Heh I was on torques too. I switch the camera over every 2 runs so I basically have a 50% chance of catching any failures if they happen.
And yeah that was the drivers second run ever, his goal was to just not dnf... didnt quite reach his goal the car stopped accross the timing lights 3 feet out of the finish cones.
And yeah that was the drivers second run ever, his goal was to just not dnf... didnt quite reach his goal the car stopped accross the timing lights 3 feet out of the finish cones.
| patr | 10-08-2004 02:30 PM |
auto mode not working with a broekn shaft has NOTHING to do with the ABS sensors or the wheel not spinning (well, not really)
its because it will never send enough torque (i.e. lock) in ANY of those situations (trying to start from a standstill). In fact, it rarely send 100% duty lock to the diff (in auto mode)
its because it will never send enough torque (i.e. lock) in ANY of those situations (trying to start from a standstill). In fact, it rarely send 100% duty lock to the diff (in auto mode)
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-08-2004 06:28 PM |
[QUOTE=patr]auto mode not working with a broekn shaft has NOTHING to do with the ABS sensors or the wheel not spinning (well, not really)[/quote]
The torque presumably has to go somewhere...?
The TCU does use "slip control" (among other things) to decide if it should apply lock.
(see section marked "slip control"; it relies on ABS wheel sensor inputs 1,3,11,15)
[url]http://www.sti-buki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6[/url]
This is why the STi will get "hoppity" under full power wet launches in auto mode. It starts out with some lock (point C on map, no lateral G but full throttle) but one end will break free and then slip is detected, the diff locks, slip stops, the diff is released, rinse and repeat.
[quote]
its because it will never send enough torque (i.e. lock) in ANY of those situations (trying to start from a standstill). In fact, it rarely send 100% duty lock to the diff (in auto mode)[/QUOTE]
I agree that is true under normal conditions (none of the shafts broken).
What I don't understand is that other RWD cars have plate type LSDs, and they still have some amount rear drive from one wheel if an axle breaks.
Glenn
The torque presumably has to go somewhere...?
The TCU does use "slip control" (among other things) to decide if it should apply lock.
(see section marked "slip control"; it relies on ABS wheel sensor inputs 1,3,11,15)
[url]http://www.sti-buki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6[/url]
This is why the STi will get "hoppity" under full power wet launches in auto mode. It starts out with some lock (point C on map, no lateral G but full throttle) but one end will break free and then slip is detected, the diff locks, slip stops, the diff is released, rinse and repeat.
[quote]
its because it will never send enough torque (i.e. lock) in ANY of those situations (trying to start from a standstill). In fact, it rarely send 100% duty lock to the diff (in auto mode)[/QUOTE]
I agree that is true under normal conditions (none of the shafts broken).
What I don't understand is that other RWD cars have plate type LSDs, and they still have some amount rear drive from one wheel if an axle breaks.
Glenn
| Davenow | 10-09-2004 06:22 AM |
:edit:
Wrong thread :mad:
Wrong thread :mad:
| johnfelstead | 10-09-2004 09:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]
What I don't understand is that other RWD cars have plate type LSDs, and they still have some amount rear drive from one wheel if an axle breaks.
Glenn[/QUOTE]
Indeed they do, an axle broke on a competition RWD car i built recently that uses a plated diff. It ran at 100MPH+ on 1 wheel drive and was putting 300BHP through this one wheel. If this wasnt the case all the Junior WRC cars would just stop dead when they break a driveshaft, which of course they dont.
It comes down to how stiff the LSD is setup, it's going to be relatively soft on the STi compared to a competition LSD, to get the car to move with a wheel wrapped under will take quite a lot of torque, more than the stock rear LSD is setup to resist before breaking free.
What I don't understand is that other RWD cars have plate type LSDs, and they still have some amount rear drive from one wheel if an axle breaks.
Glenn[/QUOTE]
Indeed they do, an axle broke on a competition RWD car i built recently that uses a plated diff. It ran at 100MPH+ on 1 wheel drive and was putting 300BHP through this one wheel. If this wasnt the case all the Junior WRC cars would just stop dead when they break a driveshaft, which of course they dont.
It comes down to how stiff the LSD is setup, it's going to be relatively soft on the STi compared to a competition LSD, to get the car to move with a wheel wrapped under will take quite a lot of torque, more than the stock rear LSD is setup to resist before breaking free.
| patr | 10-09-2004 12:18 PM |
glenn you are misunderstanding me or maybe i am not taking enough time to write the posts
what I meant was, "it has nothing to do with the abs sensors" and "any sort of 'electronic wheel slippage detection system'". The reason the car will never work in auto mode is because at that place in the auto mode map, it is nowhere near full lock, and that is what you need with a broken shaft, a super tight diff. And to get it near full lock in the auto mode map, has nothing to do with those sensors I dont care what manuals say, I know.
its just the normal rear diff action that it is relying upon. In other words, you could probably get it to move in auto mode with small amounts of clutch drap, light torque etc., but why bother when you can just lock the center diff and then at least you can drive up to the lockup of the rear diff.
I have driven may a car with plated diff with all the torque going one way and it works, up to a certain amount of torque (the weakest link in the 'chain' of the drivetrain dictates the max torque you can put throught it), but you have to be careful. Then, once the diff wears out, and you cant cool it down anymore (take a whizz on it or whatever), then jam the broken shaft so the torque goes the other way.
what I meant was, "it has nothing to do with the abs sensors" and "any sort of 'electronic wheel slippage detection system'". The reason the car will never work in auto mode is because at that place in the auto mode map, it is nowhere near full lock, and that is what you need with a broken shaft, a super tight diff. And to get it near full lock in the auto mode map, has nothing to do with those sensors I dont care what manuals say, I know.
its just the normal rear diff action that it is relying upon. In other words, you could probably get it to move in auto mode with small amounts of clutch drap, light torque etc., but why bother when you can just lock the center diff and then at least you can drive up to the lockup of the rear diff.
I have driven may a car with plated diff with all the torque going one way and it works, up to a certain amount of torque (the weakest link in the 'chain' of the drivetrain dictates the max torque you can put throught it), but you have to be careful. Then, once the diff wears out, and you cant cool it down anymore (take a whizz on it or whatever), then jam the broken shaft so the torque goes the other way.
| dch | 10-09-2004 01:30 PM |
When I lost a rear shaft at Cog, I could sorta barely limp along with the diff in auto mode. Once I dialed it up to full lock, it made a huge difference in how much power I could put down. I still had to ease into it like I was driving on a skating rink, but I was able to get the car up over 100 on the flat/downhill sections. When I hit the "too much torque" point, either the center or rear diff would slip (it's a horrible noise, especially with the shaft banging around back there) and I'd have to back off. But auto mode at low speeds and less than full throttle doesn't have much lock at all on the center. In auto mode I doubt I would have been able to get through the stage.
$0.02 submitted.
Cheers,
-Doug
$0.02 submitted.
Cheers,
-Doug
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-09-2004 08:21 PM |
[QUOTE=patr]glenn you are misunderstanding me or maybe i am not taking enough time to write the posts[/QUOTE]
Yah, I'm not disagreeing with you, I was correcting what I said in my [i]earlier[/i] post --- i.e. agreeing that if losing an axle then auto mode will be no help to you. (maybe I should have said doh not duh)
For example, if you lost a [i]wheel[/i] (which was what my brain was thinking, rather than an [i]axle[/i]) auto mode would indeed give you some lock because it would think there was wheelspin (as the entire rotor from the corner with the missing wheel would be turning, assuming it was still attached blah blah) --- assuming there was not enough drag from the pads to prevent it. And even then, not sure how much % lock auto mode gives when it detects F/R wheel slippage.
In this case (the broken axle), there would have been minimal or no lock from auto mode (which fits with the video and what you and Doug are saying) - this is entirely expected because even full throttle at that point in the map gives very little lock; [i][u]and[/u][/i] because the dislodged rotor was not turning, so therefore no "slip" for the TCU to detect.
Glenn
Yah, I'm not disagreeing with you, I was correcting what I said in my [i]earlier[/i] post --- i.e. agreeing that if losing an axle then auto mode will be no help to you. (maybe I should have said doh not duh)
For example, if you lost a [i]wheel[/i] (which was what my brain was thinking, rather than an [i]axle[/i]) auto mode would indeed give you some lock because it would think there was wheelspin (as the entire rotor from the corner with the missing wheel would be turning, assuming it was still attached blah blah) --- assuming there was not enough drag from the pads to prevent it. And even then, not sure how much % lock auto mode gives when it detects F/R wheel slippage.
In this case (the broken axle), there would have been minimal or no lock from auto mode (which fits with the video and what you and Doug are saying) - this is entirely expected because even full throttle at that point in the map gives very little lock; [i][u]and[/u][/i] because the dislodged rotor was not turning, so therefore no "slip" for the TCU to detect.
Glenn
| patr | 10-09-2004 10:49 PM |
for example, when limping a FWD car with actually no wheel on it, lightly applying the brakes to slow the dead shaft helped make the diff last longer (to limp out)
glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors
glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors
| trhoppe | 10-10-2004 12:48 AM |
Let me ask a question for you guys then.
Why does the STi not move then when one rear wheel is up in the air. Whenever I have experienced this condition, the wheel that is in the air with no drag on it will just spin freely and the car will not move. The only way to get the car moving again is to put that wheel back on the ground.
-Tom
Why does the STi not move then when one rear wheel is up in the air. Whenever I have experienced this condition, the wheel that is in the air with no drag on it will just spin freely and the car will not move. The only way to get the car moving again is to put that wheel back on the ground.
-Tom
| afpdl | 10-10-2004 02:53 AM |
Lock the diff and it will move.
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-10-2004 03:18 AM |
[QUOTE=patr]for example, when limping a FWD car with actually no wheel on it, lightly applying the brakes to slow the dead shaft helped make the diff last longer (to limp out)[/quote]
Right, this is the same as the old off roader trick of using the e-brake to give you more traction with an open diff when you're stick.
[quote]glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors[/QUOTE]
The diagram for the USDM GDB car does not show a connection from the VSS to the TCU.
Glenn
Right, this is the same as the old off roader trick of using the e-brake to give you more traction with an open diff when you're stick.
[quote]glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors[/QUOTE]
The diagram for the USDM GDB car does not show a connection from the VSS to the TCU.
Glenn
| ANZAC_1915 | 10-10-2004 03:27 AM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Why does the STi not move then when one rear wheel is up in the air. Whenever I have experienced this condition, the wheel that is in the air with no drag on it will just spin freely and the car will not move. The only way to get the car moving again is to put that wheel back on the ground.[/QUOTE]
I think we've established that the stock diff torque is set pretty soft. (although mine chatters when I turn the car around).
The DCCD is not terribly aggressive in auto mode, and maybe the TCU wants to see more than just one rear wheel spinning before it sends some lock to the C diff.
BTW I've had this happen to me leaving work from an angled driveway on to the street, there is a pause in traction.
As afpdl says, if you want some fwd motion, lock the diff.
Glenn
I think we've established that the stock diff torque is set pretty soft. (although mine chatters when I turn the car around).
The DCCD is not terribly aggressive in auto mode, and maybe the TCU wants to see more than just one rear wheel spinning before it sends some lock to the C diff.
BTW I've had this happen to me leaving work from an angled driveway on to the street, there is a pause in traction.
As afpdl says, if you want some fwd motion, lock the diff.
Glenn
| mrubino83 | 10-10-2004 02:50 PM |
I snapped a tein flex while cornering hard
| strohausii | 10-11-2004 10:10 PM |
[QUOTE=trhoppe]Let me ask a question for you guys then.
Why does the STi not move then when one rear wheel is up in the air. Whenever I have experienced this condition, the wheel that is in the air with no drag on it will just spin freely and the car will not move. The only way to get the car moving again is to put that wheel back on the ground.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=patr]
for example, when limping a FWD car with actually no wheel on it, lightly applying the brakes to slow the dead shaft helped make the diff last longer (to limp out)
glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors [/QUOTE]
Same thing happens with WRX's in snow, but it has been found that by dragging the brake slightly, will give enough resistance for the torque to at least get you moving.
I know the STI driveline must be much more robust, but just wanted to chime in on previous posts.
Why does the STi not move then when one rear wheel is up in the air. Whenever I have experienced this condition, the wheel that is in the air with no drag on it will just spin freely and the car will not move. The only way to get the car moving again is to put that wheel back on the ground.
-Tom[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=patr]
for example, when limping a FWD car with actually no wheel on it, lightly applying the brakes to slow the dead shaft helped make the diff last longer (to limp out)
glenn, the other thing I am trying to tell you is that the diff in auto mode relies much more on VSS, not wheel speed sensors [/QUOTE]
Same thing happens with WRX's in snow, but it has been found that by dragging the brake slightly, will give enough resistance for the torque to at least get you moving.
I know the STI driveline must be much more robust, but just wanted to chime in on previous posts.
| StopTech | 10-13-2004 11:25 AM |
I can't believe your codriver borked your car!! You're you going to make him pay for it, right?!?! :D
Tim @ StopTech
Tim @ StopTech
| amuroray1 | 10-18-2004 09:54 AM |
Buddy Club Racing Specs
�
�
I just snapped the strut rod of my Buddy Club Coils yesterday. Any thought on this?
| squid_sti | 10-20-2004 02:49 AM |
Where did the video go ?
| cdvma | 10-20-2004 07:35 PM |
[QUOTE=squid_sti]Where did the video go ?[/QUOTE]
He was using too much bandwidth so he took it and the images down.
He was using too much bandwidth so he took it and the images down.
| AUTOwrXER | 10-20-2004 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE=Glenn Wallace]I think we've established that the stock diff torque is set pretty soft. (although mine chatters when I turn the car around).
The DCCD is not terribly aggressive in auto mode, and maybe the TCU wants to see more than just one rear wheel spinning before it sends some lock to the C diff.
BTW I've had this happen to me leaving work from an angled driveway on to the street, there is a pause in traction.
As afpdl says, if you want some fwd motion, lock the diff.
Glenn[/QUOTE]
That's why Shane and I have been faster with the differential locked or one back from lock when we are pulling the wheel often. We are both faster in Auto when we can keep all 4 on the ground. That is, until we change the rear diff. Then we will run the max rear bias. I'm actually afraid we will soon be pulling inside front wheel and have the same problem with the front diff.
Joel
The DCCD is not terribly aggressive in auto mode, and maybe the TCU wants to see more than just one rear wheel spinning before it sends some lock to the C diff.
BTW I've had this happen to me leaving work from an angled driveway on to the street, there is a pause in traction.
As afpdl says, if you want some fwd motion, lock the diff.
Glenn[/QUOTE]
That's why Shane and I have been faster with the differential locked or one back from lock when we are pulling the wheel often. We are both faster in Auto when we can keep all 4 on the ground. That is, until we change the rear diff. Then we will run the max rear bias. I'm actually afraid we will soon be pulling inside front wheel and have the same problem with the front diff.
Joel
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