| [email protected] | 10-02-2002 12:04 AM |
Subaru to join Speed World Challenge in 2003
Hey guys, I am here from [url]www.motorsportvortex.com[/url] and have watched these forums for awhile. I just decided to register and hope to join into some fun motorsports conversations.
Thought I would start out with this news story just posted over on the site. There will be a Subaru team challenging the Speed World Challenge drivers starting in 2003. It will be a 2.5L AWD and looks pretty hot.
The full story can be found [url=http://www.motorsportvortex.com/artman/publish/article_1648.shtml]here[/url].
Thought I would start out with this news story just posted over on the site. There will be a Subaru team challenging the Speed World Challenge drivers starting in 2003. It will be a 2.5L AWD and looks pretty hot.
The full story can be found [url=http://www.motorsportvortex.com/artman/publish/article_1648.shtml]here[/url].
| eastbaysubaru | 10-02-2002 12:16 AM |
That's going to be really cool to see, I'm just wondering why the hood scoop on the 2.5L? It isn't a standard feature. Maybe they're just using a WRX hood?
-Brian
-Brian
| go go go | 10-02-2002 07:49 AM |
Civic makes somewhere around 200hp from B16A this year.
From next year rules has changed and Civics are gonna be B18C 1.8liter, probably around 220hp.
2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.
and it's pretty heavy car.
Sadly it'll probably be slower than most of the Civic in the back and not to mention those factory Mazda MP3 and Realtime Integra at front.
I'm hoping that I'm gonna see a surprise though.
I don't think running the comming STi in SPEED GT will be competitive either. The cars in there are Porsche, BMW M3 GTR, supercharged NSX, etc. it seems like SPEED seires is not a good seires to run for a Subaru.
I think they have better chance in USTCC or GrandAM
From next year rules has changed and Civics are gonna be B18C 1.8liter, probably around 220hp.
2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.
and it's pretty heavy car.
Sadly it'll probably be slower than most of the Civic in the back and not to mention those factory Mazda MP3 and Realtime Integra at front.
I'm hoping that I'm gonna see a surprise though.
I don't think running the comming STi in SPEED GT will be competitive either. The cars in there are Porsche, BMW M3 GTR, supercharged NSX, etc. it seems like SPEED seires is not a good seires to run for a Subaru.
I think they have better chance in USTCC or GrandAM
| Opie | 10-02-2002 09:09 AM |
Anyone that is going to the Southeast Subaru Region Challenge in Jacksonville, Florida this month can meet Mike Flynn...and autocross against him. He will be bringing out a WRX prepped for STX. :devil:
[QUOTE]2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.[/QUOTE] Haha...You can get 200 HP out of a 2.5 N/A quite easily...that's only a 35 HP gain. See [url]http://www.cobbtuning.com[/url], heads, cam, full exhaust and intake should easily do 200 HP and the GDA 2.5RS is a few hundred pounds lighter than the WRX, add an aluminum hood, strip the interior, etc. Weight isn't really an issue.
Can't wait for next season, it will be a hard choice between the Cherokee Trails Rally & the Sebring races...they usually fall on the same weekend! :D
[QUOTE]2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.[/QUOTE] Haha...You can get 200 HP out of a 2.5 N/A quite easily...that's only a 35 HP gain. See [url]http://www.cobbtuning.com[/url], heads, cam, full exhaust and intake should easily do 200 HP and the GDA 2.5RS is a few hundred pounds lighter than the WRX, add an aluminum hood, strip the interior, etc. Weight isn't really an issue.
Can't wait for next season, it will be a hard choice between the Cherokee Trails Rally & the Sebring races...they usually fall on the same weekend! :D
| elgorey | 10-02-2002 09:19 AM |
WC engines are completely built race engines. 220+hp out of the 2.5 is difficult for your everyday guy tuning on a small budget, but with resources a race team would put into it, the engine will make plenty of power.
the 2.0 l protege engines put out in the neighborhood of 270hp.....
the 2.0 l protege engines put out in the neighborhood of 270hp.....
| WRXURV8 | 10-02-2002 09:27 AM |
I am a big F1 and WRC fan and am just beginning to learn more about the SWC. From a "reputation" standpoint, I sure hope the 2.5 doesn't wear a hood scoop. Do you know how many clueless people are going to argue you that a '"WRX" just lost to a Civic in the SWC? I hope this is also a stepping stone to get the STI in the SWC when it comes to the states.
| elgorey | 10-02-2002 09:34 AM |
[QUOTE]I think they have better chance in USTCC or GrandAM[/QUOTE]
I completely agree. The classing structure is much more favorable in either of those series.
Although....which classes would subarus run in GrandAM
RS in STII
WRX in STI
STi in GSII
?
I completely agree. The classing structure is much more favorable in either of those series.
Although....which classes would subarus run in GrandAM
RS in STII
WRX in STI
STi in GSII
?
| WRXURV8 | 10-02-2002 09:37 AM |
Sorry for the n00b response. I posted without reading the article first. I answered the STI question. Damn n00b!!???!!;)
| [email protected] | 10-02-2002 10:45 AM |
Actually I think that the car can be competitive if prepared right. Most of the cars are making more than 200 hp, the VWs for instance are shooting for 250 hp from their 2.0 16v engine and at least one Protoge team that I have talked with are producing a little less than 250 hp, so I dont think there are any that are prodcuig the claimed 270 someone mentioned. Maybe they are I havent talked to all the teams.
But with that in mind, these are engines around and under 2.0L and the Subaru has a 2.5, undergoing the same type of race prep that the other teams are doing it should easily be able to hit 250 hp IMO. I am not a Subaru expert, but if teams are taking engines that have less than a 150 hp and getting gains of almost a 100 hp, the same should happen for the Subaru.
Plus it has the "bueaty of all wheel drive.":D
As for the hood scoop, I would bet that, if they are getting any input from Subaru, they are probably running it to make the car look like the WRX since that is Subarus hot car right now and the one aimed at all the people that follow this series. Secondly, any additional cooling that they can get to the engine will always be a bonus. They might be putting an intake up there for the airbox to create a ram air affect. When you look at most SWC cars you see them missing headlights and stuff to get a ram air intake, maybe they are doing it with the hood scoop instead.
It will be a very interesting car to see and should add yet another exciting element to an already exciting series.
But with that in mind, these are engines around and under 2.0L and the Subaru has a 2.5, undergoing the same type of race prep that the other teams are doing it should easily be able to hit 250 hp IMO. I am not a Subaru expert, but if teams are taking engines that have less than a 150 hp and getting gains of almost a 100 hp, the same should happen for the Subaru.
Plus it has the "bueaty of all wheel drive.":D
As for the hood scoop, I would bet that, if they are getting any input from Subaru, they are probably running it to make the car look like the WRX since that is Subarus hot car right now and the one aimed at all the people that follow this series. Secondly, any additional cooling that they can get to the engine will always be a bonus. They might be putting an intake up there for the airbox to create a ram air affect. When you look at most SWC cars you see them missing headlights and stuff to get a ram air intake, maybe they are doing it with the hood scoop instead.
It will be a very interesting car to see and should add yet another exciting element to an already exciting series.
| Chromer | 10-02-2002 12:33 PM |
I don't see any reason why the Subaru engine can't make close to the same power/litre as the Hondas do. Even getting 100HP/l should put them at 250HP. If they can get the 125 the B16 is getting that would put them over 300.
Without knowing what the rules disallow:
Raise the compression ratio(what octane are they allowed to run? Probably 100, at least.), oversize throttle body, sheetmetal intake, high lift/duration cams, oversize valves, upgraded valve train and conrods for higher revs, head work, cold air induction, equal-length race exhaust and a standalone computer ought to put them in good shape power-wise. Durability might take some tweaking to get right.
Without knowing what the rules disallow:
Raise the compression ratio(what octane are they allowed to run? Probably 100, at least.), oversize throttle body, sheetmetal intake, high lift/duration cams, oversize valves, upgraded valve train and conrods for higher revs, head work, cold air induction, equal-length race exhaust and a standalone computer ought to put them in good shape power-wise. Durability might take some tweaking to get right.
| NYCshopper | 10-02-2002 12:51 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by eastbaysubaru [/i]
[B]That's going to be really cool to see, I'm just wondering why the hood scoop on the 2.5L? It isn't a standard feature. Maybe they're just using a WRX hood?
-Brian [/B][/QUOTE]
reasoning for hood change....lighter?
and possible CAI?
for example...
[url]http://www.pkzero.com/NA_Parts.htm[/url]
[img]http://www.pkzero.com/images/rides/GS_Intake.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.pkzero.com/images/NA%20parts/GS_Intake2.jpg[/img]
[B]That's going to be really cool to see, I'm just wondering why the hood scoop on the 2.5L? It isn't a standard feature. Maybe they're just using a WRX hood?
-Brian [/B][/QUOTE]
reasoning for hood change....lighter?
and possible CAI?
for example...
[url]http://www.pkzero.com/NA_Parts.htm[/url]
[img]http://www.pkzero.com/images/rides/GS_Intake.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.pkzero.com/images/NA%20parts/GS_Intake2.jpg[/img]
| enduroshark | 10-02-2002 03:26 PM |
No reason why the 2.5 can't do better than the BMW 2.8s in the series. Like Chromer says, if Sunbelt (who I've been told builds all the Protege engines in SWC) is extracting more than 100 extra hp from those Protege motors, there's no reason why the same can be done out of the 2.5 motor.
| Ru fan | 10-02-2002 05:23 PM |
I don't know, cars like the Type R, protoge, etc., will be VERY tough to beat on the track. The ITR is just about the perfect car for the track. The AWD isn't really needed for the track either. What engine mods are alowed in the class? Not many I think.
Most importantly, how will the driver compare to the others? All debates aside...THIS IS THE BEST SUBARU RACING NEWS EVER!!! You have no idea how long I have waited for this day. The speedvision series is my favorite. If you are ever at Lime Rock and need a crew, give me a call!!!
Later,
Seth E.:alien: <---his day has just been made!
Most importantly, how will the driver compare to the others? All debates aside...THIS IS THE BEST SUBARU RACING NEWS EVER!!! You have no idea how long I have waited for this day. The speedvision series is my favorite. If you are ever at Lime Rock and need a crew, give me a call!!!
Later,
Seth E.:alien: <---his day has just been made!
| go go go | 10-02-2002 05:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]WC engines are completely built race engines. 220+hp out of the 2.5 is difficult for your everyday guy tuning on a small budget, but with resources a race team would put into it, the engine will make plenty of power.
the 2.0 l protege engines put out in the neighborhood of 270hp..... [/B][/QUOTE]
This is describes exactly what's happening in WC.
More money = faster.
Mazda and Realtime Integra are factory backed teams, their motor is tuned to max and probably last only a couple of races.
Private team has to live with lower horsepower because of their lower budget.
If this team has money to afford expensive engine, then they might have a chance.
Are they Subaru factory team?
anyway, it's interesting to see how much hp the race EJ25 will produce.
[B]WC engines are completely built race engines. 220+hp out of the 2.5 is difficult for your everyday guy tuning on a small budget, but with resources a race team would put into it, the engine will make plenty of power.
the 2.0 l protege engines put out in the neighborhood of 270hp..... [/B][/QUOTE]
This is describes exactly what's happening in WC.
More money = faster.
Mazda and Realtime Integra are factory backed teams, their motor is tuned to max and probably last only a couple of races.
Private team has to live with lower horsepower because of their lower budget.
If this team has money to afford expensive engine, then they might have a chance.
Are they Subaru factory team?
anyway, it's interesting to see how much hp the race EJ25 will produce.
| Ru fan | 10-02-2002 05:42 PM |
Don't they run restrictors so all the cars have around 190-230 PEAK hp?
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
| autorex | 10-02-2002 06:07 PM |
From the World Challenge website, it looks like the 2.5 is allowed to raise compression to 11.5:1. Mininum weight with driver is 2600lbs.
World Challenge rules are a lot like SCCA Production club racing rules. These cars are nothing like what is on the street.
They also run racing gas since the compression ratio is so high on these cars.
World Challenge rules are a lot like SCCA Production club racing rules. These cars are nothing like what is on the street.
They also run racing gas since the compression ratio is so high on these cars.
| RenMaxi | 10-02-2002 08:51 PM |
sad to say but irish mike wont be bringing the wrx to the event because he got this deal going to enter the impreza in the touring in 2003 the engine and drive train is out of the car so its more important to get these cars ready for 2003 than to enter the challenge and by the way his engines are being done by cobb tuning with 240 hp.
| HoRo1 | 10-02-2002 10:09 PM |
Aren't the BMWs in this series 2.5 litres. BMW doesn't sell a 2.8 litre here, its either 2.5 or 3. Do IS 300s run?
If a professional engine tuner can't get at least 250HP out of a 2.5 litre engine he should retire.
If a professional engine tuner can't get at least 250HP out of a 2.5 litre engine he should retire.
| [email protected] | 10-02-2002 11:10 PM |
If the BMWs can be competitive then the Subaru can. They are both 2.5L engines and the Subaru will have awd and be 100 lbs less in weight. The minimum weight for the BMW is 2700lbs while the Subaru will be 2600 lbs.
So they should be able to be more than competitive.
So they should be able to be more than competitive.
| go go go | 10-03-2002 01:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RenMaxi [/i]
[B]sad to say but irish mike wont be bringing the wrx to the event because he got this deal going to enter the impreza in the touring in 2003 the engine and drive train is out of the car so its more important to get these cars ready for 2003 than to enter the challenge and by the way his engines are being done by cobb tuning with 240 hp. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually forced induction is not allowed in World Challenge Touring Car class. That's why they use EJ25 instead I think. Turbo car will be automatically in GT class.
There is IS300 and it is in the middle of the pack. They crashed their car badly in the last race. There are a lot of new BMWs and they are also in the middle.
The cars on top are Realtime Integra typeR, Audi A4, and Mazda Protege.
[B]sad to say but irish mike wont be bringing the wrx to the event because he got this deal going to enter the impreza in the touring in 2003 the engine and drive train is out of the car so its more important to get these cars ready for 2003 than to enter the challenge and by the way his engines are being done by cobb tuning with 240 hp. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually forced induction is not allowed in World Challenge Touring Car class. That's why they use EJ25 instead I think. Turbo car will be automatically in GT class.
There is IS300 and it is in the middle of the pack. They crashed their car badly in the last race. There are a lot of new BMWs and they are also in the middle.
The cars on top are Realtime Integra typeR, Audi A4, and Mazda Protege.
| Kostamojen | 10-03-2002 03:21 AM |
I dont know what the rules are, but for a high-strung N/A 2.5 litre I would look for a DOHC VVT JDM spec EJ25...
| TimStevens | 10-03-2002 08:01 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WRXURV8 [/i]
[B]I am a big F1 and WRC fan and am just beginning to learn more about the SWC. From a "reputation" standpoint, I sure hope the 2.5 doesn't wear a hood scoop. Do you know how many clueless people are going to argue you that a '"WRX" just lost to a Civic in the SWC? I hope this is also a stepping stone to get the STI in the SWC when it comes to the states. [/B][/QUOTE]
Personally, I couldn't care less what clueless people think! If they think a WRX lost to a Civic... more power to them! They can go buy a civic then and wrap that around a tree rather than creating another "I rolled my WRX" thread here.
I'm glad to see a Subaru in WC competition, I just hope it can at least keep to mid-pack. There seem to be a ton of cars this year, and probably will be even more next year...
-tim
[B]I am a big F1 and WRC fan and am just beginning to learn more about the SWC. From a "reputation" standpoint, I sure hope the 2.5 doesn't wear a hood scoop. Do you know how many clueless people are going to argue you that a '"WRX" just lost to a Civic in the SWC? I hope this is also a stepping stone to get the STI in the SWC when it comes to the states. [/B][/QUOTE]
Personally, I couldn't care less what clueless people think! If they think a WRX lost to a Civic... more power to them! They can go buy a civic then and wrap that around a tree rather than creating another "I rolled my WRX" thread here.
I'm glad to see a Subaru in WC competition, I just hope it can at least keep to mid-pack. There seem to be a ton of cars this year, and probably will be even more next year...
-tim
| enduroshark | 10-03-2002 08:46 AM |
...and remember that the World Challenge runs STANDING STARTS...
:D
:D
| [email protected] | 10-03-2002 12:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by go go go [/i]
[B]
Actually forced induction is not allowed in World Challenge Touring Car class. That's why they use EJ25 instead I think. Turbo car will be automatically in GT class.
There is IS300 and it is in the middle of the pack. They crashed their car badly in the last race. There are a lot of new BMWs and they are also in the middle.
The cars on top are Realtime Integra typeR, Audi A4, and Mazda Protege. [/B][/QUOTE]
Correct FI means GT class automatically and in the article it says that they are hoping to get an STI WRX in that class next year as well as the two in the touring class with the 2.5.
The top WC cars are the BMW 325, the ITR, and the Protoge's. These three cars are at the top of every race. The Lexus has shown some real speed and run at the top a couple times and the Audi, though winning the last race, has only been at the top one other time this season at Mid Ohio.
With the 325s doing so well, the Subaru should be able to do equally as well with enough time and preperation. They start with the same size engine and, even with AWD, will weigh 100 lbs less than the BMWs so they should do well.
And yes, standing starts will help out a lot.
[B]
Actually forced induction is not allowed in World Challenge Touring Car class. That's why they use EJ25 instead I think. Turbo car will be automatically in GT class.
There is IS300 and it is in the middle of the pack. They crashed their car badly in the last race. There are a lot of new BMWs and they are also in the middle.
The cars on top are Realtime Integra typeR, Audi A4, and Mazda Protege. [/B][/QUOTE]
Correct FI means GT class automatically and in the article it says that they are hoping to get an STI WRX in that class next year as well as the two in the touring class with the 2.5.
The top WC cars are the BMW 325, the ITR, and the Protoge's. These three cars are at the top of every race. The Lexus has shown some real speed and run at the top a couple times and the Audi, though winning the last race, has only been at the top one other time this season at Mid Ohio.
With the 325s doing so well, the Subaru should be able to do equally as well with enough time and preperation. They start with the same size engine and, even with AWD, will weigh 100 lbs less than the BMWs so they should do well.
And yes, standing starts will help out a lot.
| go go go | 10-03-2002 06:51 PM |
If Subaru invest on this series and pull a factory team here, they'll win for sure.
Back in 90's Subaru raced (under SYMS's name) in JTCC with NA EJ20 Impreza wagon.
It had 300hp from EJ20NA 2000cc and it looked nothing like a stock motor.
and here's the pic of it.
[IMG]http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/0414276201/salon/21130017.jpg[/IMG]
this is the difference between factory team and privator.
Factory team (like Mazda Protege and Realtime ITR) can afford this kind of motor.
Of course the SPEED WC rules won't allow tuning to this extent, but just to give an example of what factory car is.
Back in 90's Subaru raced (under SYMS's name) in JTCC with NA EJ20 Impreza wagon.
It had 300hp from EJ20NA 2000cc and it looked nothing like a stock motor.
and here's the pic of it.
[IMG]http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/0414276201/salon/21130017.jpg[/IMG]
this is the difference between factory team and privator.
Factory team (like Mazda Protege and Realtime ITR) can afford this kind of motor.
Of course the SPEED WC rules won't allow tuning to this extent, but just to give an example of what factory car is.
| elgorey | 10-03-2002 07:13 PM |
The scoobys will have this to go up against :(
[IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-3q-sm.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-engine.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-interior.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-3q-sm.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-engine.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/news/images/rsx-interior.jpg[/IMG]
| Ru fan | 10-03-2002 07:39 PM |
Dood, where did you get that pic of the RSX? I have been checking the Real Time site, for a while now, and no updates. How much factory support does Real Time get? What is SOA's pollicy with sponsoring cars in this kind of racing?
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
| TimStevens | 10-03-2002 07:42 PM |
Wow... that RSX looks great in the Realtime livery! When does the next season start? Probably not until spring, eh?
| Ru fan | 10-03-2002 07:49 PM |
I thought that they were going to start phasing the ITR's out during this season. However, Klienubing(sp?) was supposed to keep his car since he was in line for the championship. When they were at LRP earlier this season, they had one of the ITR's painted all white. From what I heard, they were selling the car, and the buyer was test driving it.
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
Later,
Seth E.:alien:
| [email protected] | 10-03-2002 10:01 PM |
Well the RSXs are here. They will be rolled out for the Petit LeMans weekend this October. The full story can be found [url=http://www.motorsportvortex.com/artman/publish/article_1655.shtml]here.[/url]
| Patrick L | 10-04-2002 07:16 PM |
Here is the specs for the 2.5RS in Touring Car.
[url]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/competitors/vts/02-subaru-impreza-2.5.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/competitors/vts/02-subaru-impreza-2.5.pdf[/url]
| grumbly | 10-04-2002 08:33 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Top_Dog [/i]
[B]Here is the specs for the 2.5RS in Touring Car.
[url]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/competitors/vts/02-subaru-impreza-2.5.pdf[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya but look at the date issued for that document: 7/7/00.
[B]Here is the specs for the 2.5RS in Touring Car.
[url]http://www.speedvisionwc.com/competitors/vts/02-subaru-impreza-2.5.pdf[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Ya but look at the date issued for that document: 7/7/00.
| zzyzx | 10-04-2002 11:53 PM |
Regardless of date, the document stands. What's obvious, though, is that there are a number of TBD items to hash out in there.
I'd like to know what "Euro Group N spec cams" are. I don't know of any 2.5L NA euro Group N Imprezas in competition.
- Steve
I'd like to know what "Euro Group N spec cams" are. I don't know of any 2.5L NA euro Group N Imprezas in competition.
- Steve
| Patrick Olsen | 10-06-2002 11:39 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by go go go [/i]
[B]2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.[/B][/QUOTE]
I know this has already been discussed, but I came across this thread late and couldn't help but be amazed at that statement. Read and learn: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238583&highlight=dyno[/url] . That's a 36.5hp gain [i]at the wheels[/i], so the gain is at least that at the crank, which means my car is making over 200hp N/A. Mind you, this is a daily-driven street car, running 89 (or 93, depending on my mood) octane gas, stock compression, relatively mildly ported heads, tame cams, stock intake manifold, stock 6500rpm rev limiter, etc etc. A race-prepped 2.5L should [i]easily[/i] be good for 250+hp.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
[B]2.5RS has 165hp stock and I can't see it making even 200hp NA.[/B][/QUOTE]
I know this has already been discussed, but I came across this thread late and couldn't help but be amazed at that statement. Read and learn: [url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238583&highlight=dyno[/url] . That's a 36.5hp gain [i]at the wheels[/i], so the gain is at least that at the crank, which means my car is making over 200hp N/A. Mind you, this is a daily-driven street car, running 89 (or 93, depending on my mood) octane gas, stock compression, relatively mildly ported heads, tame cams, stock intake manifold, stock 6500rpm rev limiter, etc etc. A race-prepped 2.5L should [i]easily[/i] be good for 250+hp.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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