| cobbstg2 | 06-24-2003 09:21 PM |
Track Days and Racing
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I have recently started going to race tracks. I am amazed how few people seem to know how easy it is to get their car on a racetrack. Track days are almost everywhere and are usually less than $150 a day. Autox and drag racing is nice, and I'm not trying to start anything, but chasing down and catching a M3 on a real racetrack is the most fun you can have with your cloths on! If you like Gran Turismo, you won't believe how cool this is.
This weekend I'm going to a Roebling Road track day sponsered by the local Porsche Club (it's sold out). I don't have a Porsche, I just have $150, and they are happy to have me help defray the cost of the track rental. For this money I will probably get about 2 hours a day on the track and meet some people that know a lot more than I do.
Tracks are available for rent. The costs vary but seem to be $2-3,000 per day and less for weekends. There will be 80 cars at Roebling Road this weekend. Unless there is something I don't understand the Porsche Club will probably have some money left over. Good for them. WRXers can do this too.
Generally the people that you meet are extreemly nice and pleased to help rookies. All you need is a snell 95 helmet and a cheap fire extingusher.
Is there any organized amateur race series for wrx's? If not lets start one!
If people know of upcoming track days they should post them.
jay
This weekend I'm going to a Roebling Road track day sponsered by the local Porsche Club (it's sold out). I don't have a Porsche, I just have $150, and they are happy to have me help defray the cost of the track rental. For this money I will probably get about 2 hours a day on the track and meet some people that know a lot more than I do.
Tracks are available for rent. The costs vary but seem to be $2-3,000 per day and less for weekends. There will be 80 cars at Roebling Road this weekend. Unless there is something I don't understand the Porsche Club will probably have some money left over. Good for them. WRXers can do this too.
Generally the people that you meet are extreemly nice and pleased to help rookies. All you need is a snell 95 helmet and a cheap fire extingusher.
Is there any organized amateur race series for wrx's? If not lets start one!
If people know of upcoming track days they should post them.
jay
| TimStevens | 06-24-2003 09:39 PM |
I'd love to make a track day sometime, but I've been told numerous times by drivers and instructors that you should never take your car to the track unless you're prepared to go home without it, and unfortunately I'm too attached to both of my cars to deal with that!
Anyway, just a little insight into why some of us stay home when track days are so cheap and plentiful... :)
-tim
Anyway, just a little insight into why some of us stay home when track days are so cheap and plentiful... :)
-tim
| fastwrx | 06-24-2003 10:14 PM |
I did several track days, "DE," with the Porsche Club (PCA) in my '02 WRX. It was a BLAST! For $150, you get about four 25 - 30 minute sessions with an instructor in the car with you. Typically, you'll have a helmet intercom which makes it easy to hear what he's saying!
As for safety, Tim... I can't imagine a safer place to run your performance car. It is INFINITELY safer than the streets. So, I could easily extrapolate your friend's comment and say, "If you're not prepared to go home without your car, you should never drive it ANYWHERE."
Seriously... track days, also called "DE" (Drivers Education) have some strict safety rules. It is NOT racing. Now, if you're racing competitively, then your friend's comment is absolutely true. If you are RACING, you need a dedicated track car, because you WILL wreck it... just a matter of time.
Most DE events are VERY safety oriented. Typically, you cannot pass another car except in the straights and ONLY after the car ahead of you has waved you by. No passing in the turns AT ALL. If you violate any of the rules, the club will summarily boot your butt off the track.
DE events are probably the safest driving I do. I am MUCH more nervous about my car on my daily commute on I-95 in S. Florida. I'm absolutely serious about that.
DE events will also make you a MUCH better driver. I highly recommend it to anyone with a WRX or an STi.
And as Jay said, it is WAY fun reeling in exotic cars that cost 2 - 3 times your Subie. I passed a Z06 down at the Homestead track. Granted... it was a matter of driver skills in the turns rather than the Subie being faster. But, I would LOVE to have heard what the Z06 driver said as my '02 WRX with no mods passed him! I routinely keep pace with any variety of 911 models.
And the best part is after the track session when other drivers come up to you and ask, "What the hell is that thing??? I couldn't keep up with you!"
Try it! It is the SAFEST driving you'll ever do! Any other DE participants disagree with me?
I'll be at Moroso for PCA's next DE event on July 26th with my STi! I cannot wait!!! I've also joined the Performance Driving Club (local branch of NASA) to get even more track time. Yeehaaw!
Mike
As for safety, Tim... I can't imagine a safer place to run your performance car. It is INFINITELY safer than the streets. So, I could easily extrapolate your friend's comment and say, "If you're not prepared to go home without your car, you should never drive it ANYWHERE."
Seriously... track days, also called "DE" (Drivers Education) have some strict safety rules. It is NOT racing. Now, if you're racing competitively, then your friend's comment is absolutely true. If you are RACING, you need a dedicated track car, because you WILL wreck it... just a matter of time.
Most DE events are VERY safety oriented. Typically, you cannot pass another car except in the straights and ONLY after the car ahead of you has waved you by. No passing in the turns AT ALL. If you violate any of the rules, the club will summarily boot your butt off the track.
DE events are probably the safest driving I do. I am MUCH more nervous about my car on my daily commute on I-95 in S. Florida. I'm absolutely serious about that.
DE events will also make you a MUCH better driver. I highly recommend it to anyone with a WRX or an STi.
And as Jay said, it is WAY fun reeling in exotic cars that cost 2 - 3 times your Subie. I passed a Z06 down at the Homestead track. Granted... it was a matter of driver skills in the turns rather than the Subie being faster. But, I would LOVE to have heard what the Z06 driver said as my '02 WRX with no mods passed him! I routinely keep pace with any variety of 911 models.
And the best part is after the track session when other drivers come up to you and ask, "What the hell is that thing??? I couldn't keep up with you!"
Try it! It is the SAFEST driving you'll ever do! Any other DE participants disagree with me?
I'll be at Moroso for PCA's next DE event on July 26th with my STi! I cannot wait!!! I've also joined the Performance Driving Club (local branch of NASA) to get even more track time. Yeehaaw!
Mike
| Kostamojen | 06-25-2003 02:35 AM |
I dont have $150 yet. Let alone another $100-$200 for a helmet, and extra money left over for extra tires cause they wont last long at events like that...
Autocrossing and drag racing days are 1/10th the cost or less, dont knock them because they provide an affordable avenue in motorsport.
Autocrossing and drag racing days are 1/10th the cost or less, dont knock them because they provide an affordable avenue in motorsport.
| TimStevens | 06-25-2003 07:40 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]Seriously... track days, also called "DE" (Drivers Education) have some strict safety rules. It is NOT racing. Now, if you're racing competitively, then your friend's comment is absolutely true. If you are RACING, you need a dedicated track car, because you WILL wreck it... just a matter of time.
...
And as Jay said, it is WAY fun reeling in exotic cars that cost 2 - 3 times your Subie. I passed a Z06 down at the Homestead track. Granted... it was a matter of driver skills in the turns rather than the Subie being faster. But, I would LOVE to have heard what the Z06 driver said as my '02 WRX with no mods passed him! I routinely keep pace with any variety of 911 models.[/B][/QUOTE]
See, now, you just contradicted yourself. You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
And as far as safety goes... well, I don't know that I agree, but I can't really argue as I haven't got experience on the track to compare it with, but I'm not the least bit nervous about my morning commute, even when I'm in my death-trap MR2. :)
-tim
[B]Seriously... track days, also called "DE" (Drivers Education) have some strict safety rules. It is NOT racing. Now, if you're racing competitively, then your friend's comment is absolutely true. If you are RACING, you need a dedicated track car, because you WILL wreck it... just a matter of time.
...
And as Jay said, it is WAY fun reeling in exotic cars that cost 2 - 3 times your Subie. I passed a Z06 down at the Homestead track. Granted... it was a matter of driver skills in the turns rather than the Subie being faster. But, I would LOVE to have heard what the Z06 driver said as my '02 WRX with no mods passed him! I routinely keep pace with any variety of 911 models.[/B][/QUOTE]
See, now, you just contradicted yourself. You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
And as far as safety goes... well, I don't know that I agree, but I can't really argue as I haven't got experience on the track to compare it with, but I'm not the least bit nervous about my morning commute, even when I'm in my death-trap MR2. :)
-tim
| spidey02wrx | 06-25-2003 07:59 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]
Try it! It is the SAFEST driving you'll ever do! Any other DE participants disagree with me?
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Yup, I'll disagree with you. Anytime you are pushing the limits of yourself at the track there is definately danger involved. Be smart, be safe and have fun. There are a ton of safety measures put in place and most clubs are very safety-oriented but things can and will happen at speed. I have had an "off track incident" and it sucks. One momentary lapse in concentration can cost you a ton of money. Just be sure that you can deal with the consequences before you head out there. Depending on the run group you are in you could have the guy just out for a drive in his 911, or someone who thinks he is the DE version of M. Schumacher. This mix of people on the track can get hairy unless everyone does exactly what they are supposed to. Having said that, it will make you a better driver, and it will become your new favorite thing to do.
[B]
Try it! It is the SAFEST driving you'll ever do! Any other DE participants disagree with me?
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Yup, I'll disagree with you. Anytime you are pushing the limits of yourself at the track there is definately danger involved. Be smart, be safe and have fun. There are a ton of safety measures put in place and most clubs are very safety-oriented but things can and will happen at speed. I have had an "off track incident" and it sucks. One momentary lapse in concentration can cost you a ton of money. Just be sure that you can deal with the consequences before you head out there. Depending on the run group you are in you could have the guy just out for a drive in his 911, or someone who thinks he is the DE version of M. Schumacher. This mix of people on the track can get hairy unless everyone does exactly what they are supposed to. Having said that, it will make you a better driver, and it will become your new favorite thing to do.
| sdecker | 06-25-2003 08:27 AM |
Open track days and driver education (DE) events should be considered separate.
As an example, BMW CCA events here at Road Atlanta have a full time instructor planted in your car. Open track days have instructors roving amongst the corner worker stations. Since there is no 'direct' input from an instructor, the open track days seem to get a little more WFO than the DE events.
I fall in the middle on the safety issue. Yes, it is true that I don't generally drive my car at 130 mph on the road, nor try and pull 1+ g's on the street. If something mechanical goes wrong, I suppose the additional speed may create a less safe situation than if I were doing 40 or pulling .2 g's.
Arguably though, the ability to safely control your car if something unexpected happens is one of the main points of a DE, at least the ones I have attended. I feel that I have 'safely' probed the limits of my car while attending multiple DE's. I must admit that open track days are not nearly as useful, or as safe. I tend to use the DE events to learn car control and line refinement, then open track days for pure seat time.
I would not recommend that someone with no formal training or DE's just go attend open track days. The number of cars doing agricultural excursions are much greater during open track days. If you want to track your car, get hooked up with the local Porsche or BMW chapter and attend as many of their DE's as you can. That information will translate directly to future open track days you may do, and fairly directly to the street.
I'm a track junkie myself, just so everyone knows. I've already done six track days/DE's this year with more to come. The safety issue is one that each person needs to make their own decisions on. I'm willing to take that 'risk' in return for some adrenaline, a lot of knowledge, and the personal relationships gained.
Get out there and be safe!
Scott
As an example, BMW CCA events here at Road Atlanta have a full time instructor planted in your car. Open track days have instructors roving amongst the corner worker stations. Since there is no 'direct' input from an instructor, the open track days seem to get a little more WFO than the DE events.
I fall in the middle on the safety issue. Yes, it is true that I don't generally drive my car at 130 mph on the road, nor try and pull 1+ g's on the street. If something mechanical goes wrong, I suppose the additional speed may create a less safe situation than if I were doing 40 or pulling .2 g's.
Arguably though, the ability to safely control your car if something unexpected happens is one of the main points of a DE, at least the ones I have attended. I feel that I have 'safely' probed the limits of my car while attending multiple DE's. I must admit that open track days are not nearly as useful, or as safe. I tend to use the DE events to learn car control and line refinement, then open track days for pure seat time.
I would not recommend that someone with no formal training or DE's just go attend open track days. The number of cars doing agricultural excursions are much greater during open track days. If you want to track your car, get hooked up with the local Porsche or BMW chapter and attend as many of their DE's as you can. That information will translate directly to future open track days you may do, and fairly directly to the street.
I'm a track junkie myself, just so everyone knows. I've already done six track days/DE's this year with more to come. The safety issue is one that each person needs to make their own decisions on. I'm willing to take that 'risk' in return for some adrenaline, a lot of knowledge, and the personal relationships gained.
Get out there and be safe!
Scott
| HoRo1 | 06-25-2003 09:45 AM |
Re: Track Days and Racing
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by cobbstg2 [/i]
[B]...Tracks are available for rent. The costs vary but seem to be $2-3,000 per day and less for weekends...
jay [/B][/QUOTE]
?
Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Cal. Speedway for a day = $2-3000 X 10!!
You're right though. If enough WRX people got together and rented a track+paid workers+bought insurance, there's no reason why they couldn't run a WRX track day. Just try getting 50-75 WRX owners together though.
[B]...Tracks are available for rent. The costs vary but seem to be $2-3,000 per day and less for weekends...
jay [/B][/QUOTE]
?
Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Cal. Speedway for a day = $2-3000 X 10!!
You're right though. If enough WRX people got together and rented a track+paid workers+bought insurance, there's no reason why they couldn't run a WRX track day. Just try getting 50-75 WRX owners together though.
| sdecker | 06-25-2003 09:49 AM |
Re: Re: Track Days and Racing
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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by HoRo1 [/i]
[B]
?
Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Cal. Speedway for a day = $2-3000 X 10!!
You're right though. If enough WRX people got together and rented a track+paid workers+bought insurance, there's no reason why they couldn't run a WRX track day. Just try getting 50-75 WRX owners together though. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's much more difficult than it should be...I've tried to organize track days at Road Atlanta and suddenly all the people who 'really truly want to track their car more than ANYTHING' start disappearing...bummer.
[B]
?
Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Cal. Speedway for a day = $2-3000 X 10!!
You're right though. If enough WRX people got together and rented a track+paid workers+bought insurance, there's no reason why they couldn't run a WRX track day. Just try getting 50-75 WRX owners together though. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's much more difficult than it should be...I've tried to organize track days at Road Atlanta and suddenly all the people who 'really truly want to track their car more than ANYTHING' start disappearing...bummer.
| Adrian128 | 06-25-2003 10:08 AM |
Here in Australia supersprints and track days are more popular than Autocrosses. Driving (or racing) on a proper race track is a lot of fun.
Over here a lot of the race tracks have "open days". You just pay a fee to use the track (normally between $80-100 AUD) and you can have as many laps as you want. It's not competitive, but it's a good way to experience your car on the limit, and it's a good way to learn to drive on the limit. I have been to a lot of these and I have been able to shave a few seconds off my lap times just through experience.
Track days are also organized by the various car clubs, where the club hires the track for the day and just do laps. It's good fun.
Over here a lot of the race tracks have "open days". You just pay a fee to use the track (normally between $80-100 AUD) and you can have as many laps as you want. It's not competitive, but it's a good way to experience your car on the limit, and it's a good way to learn to drive on the limit. I have been to a lot of these and I have been able to shave a few seconds off my lap times just through experience.
Track days are also organized by the various car clubs, where the club hires the track for the day and just do laps. It's good fun.
| rkkwan | 06-25-2003 10:26 AM |
Since you're in Eastern TN, I would suggest you to consider events run by the Potomac Chapter of the Audi Car Club of N. America (formely Quattro Club). I've run with them at VIR and Summit Point (both relatively close to you, especially VIR). They have very good instructors, strict passing rules, with great emphasis on safety.
-Ray
-Ray
| ITWRX4ME | 06-25-2003 02:08 PM |
I've done about 20 DE events in the last 5 years. I find them to be relatively safe. There are times when the testerone is running high and people do stupid things. It seems to be infectious.
I remember one event when the track owner put in an appearance at the drivers meeting. A direct quote from him: "I know most of you know about slow in, fast out. Well, today, I want you to try fast in, fast out."
There were several shunts in the early sessions that day, one a brand new Corvette. Then a guy died trying to late brake into turn 1 at 130+. The organizers sent everyone home early citing "too much testerone". Of course, a dead driver doesn't help the mood much either.
My point is, it's as safe as you make it. Knock wood, I've survived these 20 track days by staying away from over aggressive drivers and not getting caught up in the competitiveness. I'm not there to race. I'm there to learn what are the limits of my car and my nerve. Yeah, it's a hoot to be able to lap faster than cars you know are better than yours. But that shouldn't be the goal. The goal is to improve your driving skill. And if your skill takes you to a point where you are lapping faster than "faster cars", then that's great.
You have to pick the places where you decide to take risks, to push a little harder. Maybe start with the slow turns. Master those, then tackle the faster turns. You push toward the limits in small increments. You don't get confident entering a turn at 50 then enter it at 70 next time around.
So do the track days. Just do it smart. And don't let your ego do the driving for you.
I remember one event when the track owner put in an appearance at the drivers meeting. A direct quote from him: "I know most of you know about slow in, fast out. Well, today, I want you to try fast in, fast out."
There were several shunts in the early sessions that day, one a brand new Corvette. Then a guy died trying to late brake into turn 1 at 130+. The organizers sent everyone home early citing "too much testerone". Of course, a dead driver doesn't help the mood much either.
My point is, it's as safe as you make it. Knock wood, I've survived these 20 track days by staying away from over aggressive drivers and not getting caught up in the competitiveness. I'm not there to race. I'm there to learn what are the limits of my car and my nerve. Yeah, it's a hoot to be able to lap faster than cars you know are better than yours. But that shouldn't be the goal. The goal is to improve your driving skill. And if your skill takes you to a point where you are lapping faster than "faster cars", then that's great.
You have to pick the places where you decide to take risks, to push a little harder. Maybe start with the slow turns. Master those, then tackle the faster turns. You push toward the limits in small increments. You don't get confident entering a turn at 50 then enter it at 70 next time around.
So do the track days. Just do it smart. And don't let your ego do the driving for you.
| CTKAG | 06-25-2003 02:44 PM |
Check your regional forum. Here in NESIC, there's almost always a thread or two about upcoming track days in the area. And we have a pretty big area - Summit Point WV to Mosport in Canada. Usually one or two every month from March through November.
I would agree with the sentiment about 'Driving Schools' vs open track days. For a first timer, I would avoid open track days. Most of the events around here pair novices up with an instructor until the instructor 'signs' the driver off to run solo - and even then it's good to run with an instructor occasionally to continue learning.
Spend some time learning your car, then learn the track, then learn how to go fast with your car on the track.
Some of the organizations may require you to have a higher level of safety equipment based on the mods you may have done - so pay attention to their rules. It's not much fun to have paid your money and show up at the track only to find out you can't run because you don't have some required equipment.
I would agree with the sentiment about 'Driving Schools' vs open track days. For a first timer, I would avoid open track days. Most of the events around here pair novices up with an instructor until the instructor 'signs' the driver off to run solo - and even then it's good to run with an instructor occasionally to continue learning.
Spend some time learning your car, then learn the track, then learn how to go fast with your car on the track.
Some of the organizations may require you to have a higher level of safety equipment based on the mods you may have done - so pay attention to their rules. It's not much fun to have paid your money and show up at the track only to find out you can't run because you don't have some required equipment.
| EricB | 06-25-2003 02:52 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TimStevens [/i]
[B]
See, now, you just contradicted yourself. You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Tim,
I don't see the contradiction. It's one thing being out on the track, pushing your limits (and maybe your car if you're good) and reeling in a faster car. Then driving behind him for the good part of a lap and waiting for the signal to pass. That doesn't sound like racing to me.
When you're racing, you actively trying to catch and pass them as soon as possible, where ever the opportunity presents itself on the track. And if someone's trying to pass you, you may run defensive lines to prevent them from getting by. Big difference from a track day. The intensity level is quite different between track days and wheel to wheel racing.
As far as the cost goes, drag racing or autox may be cheaper, but in terms of cost per amount of time actually driving your car, you can't beat a track day!
Eric
[B]
See, now, you just contradicted yourself. You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
Tim,
I don't see the contradiction. It's one thing being out on the track, pushing your limits (and maybe your car if you're good) and reeling in a faster car. Then driving behind him for the good part of a lap and waiting for the signal to pass. That doesn't sound like racing to me.
When you're racing, you actively trying to catch and pass them as soon as possible, where ever the opportunity presents itself on the track. And if someone's trying to pass you, you may run defensive lines to prevent them from getting by. Big difference from a track day. The intensity level is quite different between track days and wheel to wheel racing.
As far as the cost goes, drag racing or autox may be cheaper, but in terms of cost per amount of time actually driving your car, you can't beat a track day!
Eric
| HoRo1 | 06-25-2003 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TimStevens [/i]
[B]I'd love to make a track day sometime, but I've been told numerous times by drivers and instructors that you should never take your car to the track unless you're prepared to go home without it, and unfortunately I'm too attached to both of my cars to deal with that!
Anyway, just a little insight into why some of us stay home when track days are so cheap and plentiful... :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
I [B]cannot[/B] agree with the remarks of drivers and instructors outlined above, or with the statements about pushing the driver's and vehicle's limits made elsewhere. I would STRONGLY recommend that people attend untimed driving schools. Such events offer a non-competitive format for those that want track time but don't want the risks of a time trial (I won't even mention racing, because that is a whole different kettle of fish). A well run driving school, where the participants and the organizers both act responsibly should be as safe an experience as it is possible to have at the track. Sure, it is probably not as safe as driving to work, but your chances of coming home without your car are, while not zero, minimal.
As to pushing your car to the limit. If you are doing so, then one of 2 circumstances has arisen;
You are either a Schumacheresque talent that can push a car to its limit and beyond and therefore you are good enough to be getting paid to drive somebody else's car
OR
You are losing control and need to be at a driver's school.
If you are pushing yourself to the limit, then you should be congratulated, because it is only when driving at your limit and just beyond it, that you will become a better driver.
Simply put
Driving is not risk free, be it the morning commute, the cross country drive to see Aunt Ethel, the local Porsche club's track day, or the local SCCA cone mashing fest known as autocross. Accidents can and will happen - hopefully to someone else. That someone else being the person who didn't go to track day driving schools to become a better driver, because they felt that pushing themelves to the limit was something to be avoided because they might feel uncomfortable, OR if they did go to a track day, decided that they didn't need/want an instructor.
BTW, when I go to driver's schools, I NEVER race. Any well run driver's schools should pull you off the track if they see you racing (and it is easy to see). The only thing that I'm trying to do is be smoother than I was the lap before.
Edit
I take my car to the track as frequently as my budget allows for drivers schools, time trials and races.
Based on my experience;
Schools = safe (hence covered by your insurance, but check with agent to make sure)
TT's = not risk free, but still safe (no insurance coverage under standard policies)
Racing = are you crazy? But what a rush!
[B]I'd love to make a track day sometime, but I've been told numerous times by drivers and instructors that you should never take your car to the track unless you're prepared to go home without it, and unfortunately I'm too attached to both of my cars to deal with that!
Anyway, just a little insight into why some of us stay home when track days are so cheap and plentiful... :)
-tim [/B][/QUOTE]
I [B]cannot[/B] agree with the remarks of drivers and instructors outlined above, or with the statements about pushing the driver's and vehicle's limits made elsewhere. I would STRONGLY recommend that people attend untimed driving schools. Such events offer a non-competitive format for those that want track time but don't want the risks of a time trial (I won't even mention racing, because that is a whole different kettle of fish). A well run driving school, where the participants and the organizers both act responsibly should be as safe an experience as it is possible to have at the track. Sure, it is probably not as safe as driving to work, but your chances of coming home without your car are, while not zero, minimal.
As to pushing your car to the limit. If you are doing so, then one of 2 circumstances has arisen;
You are either a Schumacheresque talent that can push a car to its limit and beyond and therefore you are good enough to be getting paid to drive somebody else's car
OR
You are losing control and need to be at a driver's school.
If you are pushing yourself to the limit, then you should be congratulated, because it is only when driving at your limit and just beyond it, that you will become a better driver.
Simply put
Driving is not risk free, be it the morning commute, the cross country drive to see Aunt Ethel, the local Porsche club's track day, or the local SCCA cone mashing fest known as autocross. Accidents can and will happen - hopefully to someone else. That someone else being the person who didn't go to track day driving schools to become a better driver, because they felt that pushing themelves to the limit was something to be avoided because they might feel uncomfortable, OR if they did go to a track day, decided that they didn't need/want an instructor.
BTW, when I go to driver's schools, I NEVER race. Any well run driver's schools should pull you off the track if they see you racing (and it is easy to see). The only thing that I'm trying to do is be smoother than I was the lap before.
Edit
I take my car to the track as frequently as my budget allows for drivers schools, time trials and races.
Based on my experience;
Schools = safe (hence covered by your insurance, but check with agent to make sure)
TT's = not risk free, but still safe (no insurance coverage under standard policies)
Racing = are you crazy? But what a rush!
| HoRo1 | 06-25-2003 05:19 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]I dont have $150 yet. Let alone another $100-$200 for a helmet, and extra money left over for extra tires cause they wont last long at events like that...
Autocrossing and drag racing days are 1/10th the cost or less, dont knock them because they provide an affordable avenue in motorsport. [/B][/QUOTE]
Not trying to be a post whore here but...I track my car and don't autocross because I don't think autocross represents good value for money. I don't get enough track time! I did 2 autoXs and spent at least 90% of my time there picking my nose, sleeping, watching other people pick their noses or sleep...blah blah, you get the picture. It is true that I eat more cash at the track than I would going around the cones - but in terms of $/hour, I suspect that my track time is no more expensive than autoX, and may be cheaper.
As to drag racing...well let's just say that we can't talk about it because this is a motorsports forum.
[B]I dont have $150 yet. Let alone another $100-$200 for a helmet, and extra money left over for extra tires cause they wont last long at events like that...
Autocrossing and drag racing days are 1/10th the cost or less, dont knock them because they provide an affordable avenue in motorsport. [/B][/QUOTE]
Not trying to be a post whore here but...I track my car and don't autocross because I don't think autocross represents good value for money. I don't get enough track time! I did 2 autoXs and spent at least 90% of my time there picking my nose, sleeping, watching other people pick their noses or sleep...blah blah, you get the picture. It is true that I eat more cash at the track than I would going around the cones - but in terms of $/hour, I suspect that my track time is no more expensive than autoX, and may be cheaper.
As to drag racing...well let's just say that we can't talk about it because this is a motorsports forum.
| WORWRX | 06-25-2003 06:40 PM |
My $.02
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I've done AutoX and while is fun; there is nothing like the thrill of passing a 993 or M3 on a racing track...it is not as expensive as you may think and it teaches you good driving skills...I agree with the safety; rules keep you safe. I am going racing in NHIS in August, it should be a great time.
As for drag racing; is just not for me; minimal skills are needed in my opinion. I look for a challenge.
As for drag racing; is just not for me; minimal skills are needed in my opinion. I look for a challenge.
| ellisnc | 06-25-2003 07:48 PM |
After being on the track a few times now...
Anyone else get bored driving on the street? I see how close I can get to the curb on apexes and feel the gutters and edges of the road on corner entry and exit now just to occupy myself.
Anyone else the same? maybe it's just me.
Anyone else get bored driving on the street? I see how close I can get to the curb on apexes and feel the gutters and edges of the road on corner entry and exit now just to occupy myself.
Anyone else the same? maybe it's just me.
| jamz | 06-25-2003 07:57 PM |
So basically, HSDE teach you pretty good car control. Auto-x also teaches you good car control. If car control is your goal, both of these do well. One difference is that track days see you at higher speeds, in which car control is different, input-wise, than at lower speeds.
Another type of event is a time trial, which is less race-like as far as wheel to wheel goes, but there is the added thrill of competition. Of course, competition can lead to you punting it off into a wall when you try to hang it out there becase you are being timed.
Personally, I like track days because it feeds me more adrenaline than an auto-x would. (Caveat- never autocrossed :p) But there is definitely more risk- at the higher speeds found on a track, mechanical failure, track debris, etc can have a much more serious result. Most track days I've been to have seen at least one wreck, sometimes a bad one. Interestingly, these are usually higher priced cars, Vipers, M3s, porsche, etc.
Another type of event is a time trial, which is less race-like as far as wheel to wheel goes, but there is the added thrill of competition. Of course, competition can lead to you punting it off into a wall when you try to hang it out there becase you are being timed.
Personally, I like track days because it feeds me more adrenaline than an auto-x would. (Caveat- never autocrossed :p) But there is definitely more risk- at the higher speeds found on a track, mechanical failure, track debris, etc can have a much more serious result. Most track days I've been to have seen at least one wreck, sometimes a bad one. Interestingly, these are usually higher priced cars, Vipers, M3s, porsche, etc.
| sdecker | 06-25-2003 08:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jamz [/i]
[B]Most track days I've been to have seen at least one wreck, sometimes a bad one. Interestingly, these are usually higher priced cars, Vipers, M3s, porsche, etc. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep...my experience is the same. Maybe those guys are trying too hard to compete with 'that damn Subaru' that's always in their mirrors looking for the point-by. :lol:
If you track your car and you remember that the laws of physics always apply, you'll be in good shape. Training in DE's is often under-rated. I have a buddy who is one of the lead instructors at the Panoz Racing School at Road Atlanta. He is constantly telling me that I need to be more 'on the edge'. I take his advice with a grain of salt since I need to drive my car home at the end of the day.
Bottom line: learning how to control your car at any given speed is a good thing. The specific method you use (autox, DE, whatever) is irrelevant.
BTW: have we hijacked the hell out of this thread or what? :D
Scott
[B]Most track days I've been to have seen at least one wreck, sometimes a bad one. Interestingly, these are usually higher priced cars, Vipers, M3s, porsche, etc. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep...my experience is the same. Maybe those guys are trying too hard to compete with 'that damn Subaru' that's always in their mirrors looking for the point-by. :lol:
If you track your car and you remember that the laws of physics always apply, you'll be in good shape. Training in DE's is often under-rated. I have a buddy who is one of the lead instructors at the Panoz Racing School at Road Atlanta. He is constantly telling me that I need to be more 'on the edge'. I take his advice with a grain of salt since I need to drive my car home at the end of the day.
Bottom line: learning how to control your car at any given speed is a good thing. The specific method you use (autox, DE, whatever) is irrelevant.
BTW: have we hijacked the hell out of this thread or what? :D
Scott
| dknv | 06-25-2003 09:17 PM |
I wish Subaru would organize some track events!
I both autocross and take my car (wagon!) to the track. I love doing either, and both. They are 2 different kinds of driving experiences.
To decrease your risk of leaving a track without your car, I would recommend starting with another type of activity. I started in autocross, where I began to learn the limits of my car's handling in relative safety.
Then before running in a track 'event' such as HPDE, I would suggest a drivers' safety course, many of which are presented by car clubs. I've run with the Audi Club, in which the format goes like this:
Newbies run through exercises in the morning, day 1. Exercises include classroom/theory (instructor-led discussion on car-handling dynamics, passing & course etiquette, flags, car setup, driver setup!), following by in-car exercises: threshold braking (finding the limits of stopping your car); slalom (finding the limits of side-to-side weight transfer); and lane-toss (hard to explain, basically a speed-based maneuvering exercise which helps you learn to avoid braking while turning at speed which is generally a bad idea). The remaining afternoon and 2nd day, students drive their vehicles with instructors in the car, 20-30 minute lapping sessions, where passing is allowed in 'safe' straightaways. Students move into more advanced groups allowing higher speeds and more passing zones, once they've shown competency where they're at. That's one of the reasons that some of these drivers' schools are fairly safe, possibly safer than driving on public roads.
Once you've accomplished something like this 1 or more times, you'll be more skilled, more knowledgeable and more confident about driving your vehicle in a track event.
I both autocross and take my car (wagon!) to the track. I love doing either, and both. They are 2 different kinds of driving experiences.
To decrease your risk of leaving a track without your car, I would recommend starting with another type of activity. I started in autocross, where I began to learn the limits of my car's handling in relative safety.
Then before running in a track 'event' such as HPDE, I would suggest a drivers' safety course, many of which are presented by car clubs. I've run with the Audi Club, in which the format goes like this:
Newbies run through exercises in the morning, day 1. Exercises include classroom/theory (instructor-led discussion on car-handling dynamics, passing & course etiquette, flags, car setup, driver setup!), following by in-car exercises: threshold braking (finding the limits of stopping your car); slalom (finding the limits of side-to-side weight transfer); and lane-toss (hard to explain, basically a speed-based maneuvering exercise which helps you learn to avoid braking while turning at speed which is generally a bad idea). The remaining afternoon and 2nd day, students drive their vehicles with instructors in the car, 20-30 minute lapping sessions, where passing is allowed in 'safe' straightaways. Students move into more advanced groups allowing higher speeds and more passing zones, once they've shown competency where they're at. That's one of the reasons that some of these drivers' schools are fairly safe, possibly safer than driving on public roads.
Once you've accomplished something like this 1 or more times, you'll be more skilled, more knowledgeable and more confident about driving your vehicle in a track event.
| Kostamojen | 06-26-2003 04:23 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Adrian128 [/i]
[B]Here in Australia supersprints and track days are more popular than Autocrosses. Driving (or racing) on a proper race track is a lot of fun.
Over here a lot of the race tracks have "open days". You just pay a fee to use the track (normally between $80-100 AUD) and you can have as many laps as you want. It's not competitive, but it's a good way to experience your car on the limit, and it's a good way to learn to drive on the limit. I have been to a lot of these and I have been able to shave a few seconds off my lap times just through experience.
Track days are also organized by the various car clubs, where the club hires the track for the day and just do laps. It's good fun. [/B][/QUOTE]
We dont have antying like that around here... I heard a track up in Oregon has $75 track days, but I dont think they are quite that "open" in style... (That price in AUD is closer to $50 USD, which if cost that little I would have done it a few times already)
As for the comments about Autocross track time, of course you get more time per $$$. But if you dont live near a track, you have to include travel costs to the track, along with a helmet which is usually availible for borrowing at an autocross, along with the extra cost of the tires like I mentioned... Driver for 20 minutes at a time on a large track like that wears down your tires very quickly as you know. That can add up to another $500 a year in tire cost, and what would actually be a best is a seperate set of wheels to track on which costs even more...
Plus, another think you get at an Autocross is competetive class rankings along with season trophies and stuff like that, which isnt an option for track days until you start racing in an actual series which is insanely expensive.
The big difference to me in terms of the "style" is that you can safely push PAST the limits of your car at an autocross with little worry of incident. At a real track, you can end up in a serious high speed accident... Saftey wise, Autocrosses are definatly the safest avenue.
All this being said, Its not like im "pro autocross anti-track" its just that there seem to be alot of people who dis-respect autocross's and I cant stand by and watch that happen :p I want to do both, and everything I can with my car myself. And as a student only working during the summer I cant afford a whole lot, so Autocross (or rally-crossing) are my only actual options other than straight line drag racing events. I do plan on saving up enough to make the next thunderhill HPSE event in late August so I can try it out...
BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum)
[B]Here in Australia supersprints and track days are more popular than Autocrosses. Driving (or racing) on a proper race track is a lot of fun.
Over here a lot of the race tracks have "open days". You just pay a fee to use the track (normally between $80-100 AUD) and you can have as many laps as you want. It's not competitive, but it's a good way to experience your car on the limit, and it's a good way to learn to drive on the limit. I have been to a lot of these and I have been able to shave a few seconds off my lap times just through experience.
Track days are also organized by the various car clubs, where the club hires the track for the day and just do laps. It's good fun. [/B][/QUOTE]
We dont have antying like that around here... I heard a track up in Oregon has $75 track days, but I dont think they are quite that "open" in style... (That price in AUD is closer to $50 USD, which if cost that little I would have done it a few times already)
As for the comments about Autocross track time, of course you get more time per $$$. But if you dont live near a track, you have to include travel costs to the track, along with a helmet which is usually availible for borrowing at an autocross, along with the extra cost of the tires like I mentioned... Driver for 20 minutes at a time on a large track like that wears down your tires very quickly as you know. That can add up to another $500 a year in tire cost, and what would actually be a best is a seperate set of wheels to track on which costs even more...
Plus, another think you get at an Autocross is competetive class rankings along with season trophies and stuff like that, which isnt an option for track days until you start racing in an actual series which is insanely expensive.
The big difference to me in terms of the "style" is that you can safely push PAST the limits of your car at an autocross with little worry of incident. At a real track, you can end up in a serious high speed accident... Saftey wise, Autocrosses are definatly the safest avenue.
All this being said, Its not like im "pro autocross anti-track" its just that there seem to be alot of people who dis-respect autocross's and I cant stand by and watch that happen :p I want to do both, and everything I can with my car myself. And as a student only working during the summer I cant afford a whole lot, so Autocross (or rally-crossing) are my only actual options other than straight line drag racing events. I do plan on saving up enough to make the next thunderhill HPSE event in late August so I can try it out...
BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum)
| HoRo1 | 06-26-2003 10:32 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ellisnc [/i]
[B]After being on the track a few times now...
Anyone else get bored driving on the street?...[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes.
[B]After being on the track a few times now...
Anyone else get bored driving on the street?...[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes.
| ITWRX4ME | 06-26-2003 01:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]...The big difference to me in terms of the "style" is that you can safely push PAST the limits of your car at an autocross with little worry of incident. At a real track, you can end up in a serious high speed accident... Saftey wise, Autocrosses are definatly the safest avenue.
All this being said, Its not like im "pro autocross anti-track" its just that there seem to be alot of people who dis-respect autocross's and I cant stand by and watch that happen :p I want to do both, and everything I can with my car myself. And as a student only working during the summer I cant afford a whole lot, so Autocross (or rally-crossing) are my only actual options other than straight line drag racing events. I do plan on saving up enough to make the next thunderhill HPSE event in late August so I can try it out...
BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum) [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree that the safety factory is much higher at Autocross.
I tried Autocross first, in a 944, and really sucked. I found it too difficult to work on technique because there wasn't enough repitition for me. Plus, I couldn't remember the courses.
The last three years I've done nothing but track time, with a couple of RallyXs thrown in. I might have to try Autocross again to see if I can apply what I've learned from the track driving.
[B]...The big difference to me in terms of the "style" is that you can safely push PAST the limits of your car at an autocross with little worry of incident. At a real track, you can end up in a serious high speed accident... Saftey wise, Autocrosses are definatly the safest avenue.
All this being said, Its not like im "pro autocross anti-track" its just that there seem to be alot of people who dis-respect autocross's and I cant stand by and watch that happen :p I want to do both, and everything I can with my car myself. And as a student only working during the summer I cant afford a whole lot, so Autocross (or rally-crossing) are my only actual options other than straight line drag racing events. I do plan on saving up enough to make the next thunderhill HPSE event in late August so I can try it out...
BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum) [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree that the safety factory is much higher at Autocross.
I tried Autocross first, in a 944, and really sucked. I found it too difficult to work on technique because there wasn't enough repitition for me. Plus, I couldn't remember the courses.
The last three years I've done nothing but track time, with a couple of RallyXs thrown in. I might have to try Autocross again to see if I can apply what I've learned from the track driving.
| elgorey | 06-26-2003 02:27 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum) [/B][/QUOTE]
As an instructor (And someone who autoXes as well) I can tell you this is often quite the opposite. AutoX drivers have to un-learn many things to adjust to a road course. Most notably the transitional nature of autoX forces you to "point and shoot" which results in much more sudden inputs. On a road course the hand and feet inputs must be extremely smooth, and almost never want to upset the car. Also, even though a good autoXer looks ahead down the course, it is still not to the degree which is required on a road course, and I find many autoXers dont look ahead enough (of course this is common among most newbies so that may be irrelevant)
[B]BTW, I keep hearing that Autocross people who move into track events do better than track people who move into Autocrossing... Something about the reaction times being slower. (seriously, this has been said before on this forum) [/B][/QUOTE]
As an instructor (And someone who autoXes as well) I can tell you this is often quite the opposite. AutoX drivers have to un-learn many things to adjust to a road course. Most notably the transitional nature of autoX forces you to "point and shoot" which results in much more sudden inputs. On a road course the hand and feet inputs must be extremely smooth, and almost never want to upset the car. Also, even though a good autoXer looks ahead down the course, it is still not to the degree which is required on a road course, and I find many autoXers dont look ahead enough (of course this is common among most newbies so that may be irrelevant)
| lukerussell | 06-26-2003 05:34 PM |
track days are the funnest. they're as safe as you want them to be. you can drive slow, just watch your mirrors and point everyone by well in advance. no worries. most organizers see the dorks driving beyond their limit, passing without being pointed by, racing, etc. and they get black flagged. if they don't get black flagged, report it and he will. you usually have 48 good guys and a couple dorks. just stay away from the dorks.
i usually do the chin motorsport events. they give good instruction and their novice classes were pretty advanced (they throw you in the middle of things pretty quick) but informative and just what i wanted. you get all the track time you can stand. i usually use a whole tank of gas easy.
i'll be at moroso on saturday. i'll be in the wagon, my buds will be in an s2000, integra type r, rally civic, silvia (turbo nissan 180) and another civic i think.
someone that has track day lap times should start a thread and post lap times, that would be cool. i could go through my one lap videos and see what i come up with.
i usually do the chin motorsport events. they give good instruction and their novice classes were pretty advanced (they throw you in the middle of things pretty quick) but informative and just what i wanted. you get all the track time you can stand. i usually use a whole tank of gas easy.
i'll be at moroso on saturday. i'll be in the wagon, my buds will be in an s2000, integra type r, rally civic, silvia (turbo nissan 180) and another civic i think.
someone that has track day lap times should start a thread and post lap times, that would be cool. i could go through my one lap videos and see what i come up with.
| sdecker | 06-26-2003 05:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lukerussell [/i]
[B]someone that has track day lap times should start a thread and post lap times, that would be cool. i could go through my one lap videos and see what i come up with. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hell, I'm in! Start that thread and throw this in:
Track: Road Atlanta
Mods: TXS stage 2, Koni inserts on Prodrive springs, Whiteline RSB set to 22mm, Victoracer 225/50/16 on stock rims, Axxis Ultimates F/R
Time: 1:51.xx
Comments: horrible brake fade -- I'll do better next time. :D
That's a great idea. Some of the heavy hitters will probably either :lol: or :rolleyes: but who cares? I don't have any illusions about my (lack of) driving ability...but I'm working on it and have dropped 3-4 seconds a lap over the last six months.
Scott
[B]someone that has track day lap times should start a thread and post lap times, that would be cool. i could go through my one lap videos and see what i come up with. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hell, I'm in! Start that thread and throw this in:
Track: Road Atlanta
Mods: TXS stage 2, Koni inserts on Prodrive springs, Whiteline RSB set to 22mm, Victoracer 225/50/16 on stock rims, Axxis Ultimates F/R
Time: 1:51.xx
Comments: horrible brake fade -- I'll do better next time. :D
That's a great idea. Some of the heavy hitters will probably either :lol: or :rolleyes: but who cares? I don't have any illusions about my (lack of) driving ability...but I'm working on it and have dropped 3-4 seconds a lap over the last six months.
Scott
| sdecker | 06-26-2003 05:54 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey [/i]
[B]Also, even though a good autoXer looks ahead down the course, it is still not to the degree which is required on a road course, and I find many autoXers dont look ahead enough (of course this is common among most newbies so that may be irrelevant) [/B][/QUOTE]
Elgorey:
I have actually created a little placard that I place on top of the dash for HPDE's: it says "Look UP ^^^ Stupid!!!"
Sounds dumb, but it damn sure works. Kind of like the strip of tape at TDC on the steering wheel. :D
I've never autox'd in my life. I keep telling myself I'm going to do it but the idea of standing in the sun all day to get 4-5 one minute runs is not my idea of fun, even if it IS cheap. Not knocking the autox guys at all, it's just not my cup of tea...
Scott
[B]Also, even though a good autoXer looks ahead down the course, it is still not to the degree which is required on a road course, and I find many autoXers dont look ahead enough (of course this is common among most newbies so that may be irrelevant) [/B][/QUOTE]
Elgorey:
I have actually created a little placard that I place on top of the dash for HPDE's: it says "Look UP ^^^ Stupid!!!"
Sounds dumb, but it damn sure works. Kind of like the strip of tape at TDC on the steering wheel. :D
I've never autox'd in my life. I keep telling myself I'm going to do it but the idea of standing in the sun all day to get 4-5 one minute runs is not my idea of fun, even if it IS cheap. Not knocking the autox guys at all, it's just not my cup of tea...
Scott
| cobbstg2 | 06-27-2003 01:25 AM |
Hi,
I appreciate everyones responce to the thread, and agree with just about everything said.
Safety- it's as safe as you make it. Will I take my TTSupra on the track? Not a chance. It is far more difficult to drive fast than a WRX and too expensive to replace. It will remain a dyno queen that I spend too much money on and don't enjoy half as much as my subie.
Going fast in a car is dangerous, no matter where you do it. I heard 75-80 subies did a road called the dragon recently in N.C and there were 2 accidents. I did One Lap of America this year and hit a tire wall Indianapolis Raceway. My stupid mistake because I was too lazy to bleed my brakes one more time. If you want a truly safe auto experience sit on the couch and watch the speed channel. The greatest risk is not taking any risks.
Autocross- great fun, just not enough seat time.
Cost- I guess thats relative, but the cost per grin ratio works for me. The value of reeling in those Porsches and M3s, and having them ask "what do you have in that thing?"... Priceless
Track rentals- Laguna Seca and Road America for a couple of grand. No. Smaller tracks are not very expensive. An empty track doesn't make any money.
Hi Luke. I was the silver WRX at One Lap. Someday, when I grow up, I'm going to learn to drive as good you. Congratulations! You ARE the man!!
jay
I appreciate everyones responce to the thread, and agree with just about everything said.
Safety- it's as safe as you make it. Will I take my TTSupra on the track? Not a chance. It is far more difficult to drive fast than a WRX and too expensive to replace. It will remain a dyno queen that I spend too much money on and don't enjoy half as much as my subie.
Going fast in a car is dangerous, no matter where you do it. I heard 75-80 subies did a road called the dragon recently in N.C and there were 2 accidents. I did One Lap of America this year and hit a tire wall Indianapolis Raceway. My stupid mistake because I was too lazy to bleed my brakes one more time. If you want a truly safe auto experience sit on the couch and watch the speed channel. The greatest risk is not taking any risks.
Autocross- great fun, just not enough seat time.
Cost- I guess thats relative, but the cost per grin ratio works for me. The value of reeling in those Porsches and M3s, and having them ask "what do you have in that thing?"... Priceless
Track rentals- Laguna Seca and Road America for a couple of grand. No. Smaller tracks are not very expensive. An empty track doesn't make any money.
Hi Luke. I was the silver WRX at One Lap. Someday, when I grow up, I'm going to learn to drive as good you. Congratulations! You ARE the man!!
jay
| Kostamojen | 06-27-2003 02:22 AM |
I dont know, maybe its the fact that I can stay competitive in Autocross with only 110hp that draws me towards it? :p Im sure im gonna be pissed the first time I hit a straigt on a track day and EVERYONE passes me, then I end up having to wait for them in the corners :(
Track Memory is probably my best asset. I remember courses now after just one lap. After that, its just me trying to improve my lines. In terms of autocross, you just have to figure out how often you run WOT and when to brake :p Im sure high speed corners at the track are different, but the proper conservitive "slow in fast out" techinque works for every corner :)
Track Memory is probably my best asset. I remember courses now after just one lap. After that, its just me trying to improve my lines. In terms of autocross, you just have to figure out how often you run WOT and when to brake :p Im sure high speed corners at the track are different, but the proper conservitive "slow in fast out" techinque works for every corner :)
| WRX_Mundi | 06-27-2003 05:38 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ITWRX4ME [/i]I tried Autocross first, in a 944, and really sucked. I found it too difficult to work on technique because there wasn't enough repitition for me. Plus, I couldn't remember the courses.[/QUOTE]Something that I've found extremely helpful in my neighboring region are the Friday Test and Tune days. On Friday people show up and set up a course -- not a highly thought out course, but who cares. Then we drive it. Since often only 10 people are driving, I can get 10 to 30 runs in, and many times stop just because I'm too tired to keep going. It is common to finish the course then find that nobody else is waiting, so I'm right back on again. Or I might have to wait for one or two cars. This is great since you get lots of time and also you get to go back on the course soon enough that you can remember all the things you want to improve on this run. You can work on smoothness, etc. You can also try different things which may or may not work -- you not only don't feel like you're throwing away a precious run, but since you just did the course the normal way, you get a quick comparison.
For learning, I find them better than an actual autocross. But the Autocross does have nice timing (sometimes the test and tunes have timing, sometimes not, but it is usually stopwatches), and competition often helps. I think test and tunes are why my most recent set of street tires lasted only 2 months.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey[/i]Most notably the transitional nature of autoX forces you to "point and shoot" which results in much more sudden inputs. On a road course the hand and feet inputs must be extremely smooth, and almost never want to upset the car.[/QUOTE]I have found that a lot of people who have cars with sticky tires and very tight suspensions often drive like this. Driving a car with a pretty mushy suspension and street tires leads to much smoother inputs since you really don't want to unsettle the car. Driving a car with under 130hp also makes for desiring smooth results since it is hard to make up any lost corner speed. Anyway, I'm thinking that in both setups you [i]want[/i] smooth inputs, even if some people don't do them. It might be harder to learn that at an autocross since you don't have any time between corners to get things settled down and start fresh on the next corner.
For learning, I find them better than an actual autocross. But the Autocross does have nice timing (sometimes the test and tunes have timing, sometimes not, but it is usually stopwatches), and competition often helps. I think test and tunes are why my most recent set of street tires lasted only 2 months.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by elgorey[/i]Most notably the transitional nature of autoX forces you to "point and shoot" which results in much more sudden inputs. On a road course the hand and feet inputs must be extremely smooth, and almost never want to upset the car.[/QUOTE]I have found that a lot of people who have cars with sticky tires and very tight suspensions often drive like this. Driving a car with a pretty mushy suspension and street tires leads to much smoother inputs since you really don't want to unsettle the car. Driving a car with under 130hp also makes for desiring smooth results since it is hard to make up any lost corner speed. Anyway, I'm thinking that in both setups you [i]want[/i] smooth inputs, even if some people don't do them. It might be harder to learn that at an autocross since you don't have any time between corners to get things settled down and start fresh on the next corner.
| elgorey | 06-27-2003 08:15 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]I dont know, maybe its the fact that I can stay competitive in Autocross with only 110hp that draws me towards it? :p Im sure im gonna be pissed the first time I hit a straigt on a track day and EVERYONE passes me, then I end up having to wait for them in the corners :([/B][/QUOTE]
Track days are not competition, and should [i]never[/i] be thought of as such. You leave your ego at home, and if you get "pissed" when people pass you, its best to leave yourself at home too.
[B]I dont know, maybe its the fact that I can stay competitive in Autocross with only 110hp that draws me towards it? :p Im sure im gonna be pissed the first time I hit a straigt on a track day and EVERYONE passes me, then I end up having to wait for them in the corners :([/B][/QUOTE]
Track days are not competition, and should [i]never[/i] be thought of as such. You leave your ego at home, and if you get "pissed" when people pass you, its best to leave yourself at home too.
| lukerussell | 06-27-2003 07:26 PM |
hey jay, did you fix your racing stripe? it looked pretty cool. i think i would've keep it for a few months. i came within 6" of tagging the outside wall of the last turn at IRP.
if you show up at a track day in a stock wrx or even 2.5 rs, you will not be the slowest car out there. there are always 5 - 10 really slow cars out there, either low hp stock cars or just really bad drivers in "performance cars" or even 80 year old guys driving porsches. even if you were the slowest one there, it's still fun. if i took my pickup truck to the track, i'd be the slowest one there and it would still be fun. the thrill isn't passing people, it's exploring the performance of your car, letting the tires screeeech and the brakes smoke
if you show up at a track day in a stock wrx or even 2.5 rs, you will not be the slowest car out there. there are always 5 - 10 really slow cars out there, either low hp stock cars or just really bad drivers in "performance cars" or even 80 year old guys driving porsches. even if you were the slowest one there, it's still fun. if i took my pickup truck to the track, i'd be the slowest one there and it would still be fun. the thrill isn't passing people, it's exploring the performance of your car, letting the tires screeeech and the brakes smoke
| fastwrx | 06-27-2003 11:55 PM |
Hi all,
[i]"You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
And as far as safety goes... well, I don't know that I agree, but I can't really argue as I haven't got experience on the track to compare it with, but I'm not the least bit nervous about my morning commute, even when I'm in my death-trap MR2"[/i]
I guess I should clarify a bit. I didn't mean to imply that driving fast on a track is without risks. I still contend it's safer than MY daily commute. But, bear in mind that I am in Palm Beach County (Southeast Florida), where we have some of the worst drivers in the country! I am serious when I say I am MUCH more worried about my STi (and ME!) getting whacked on I-95 than on the track at Moroso or Homestead. I have close calls almost every commute to work... You know, traffic suddenly slows down (for no apparent reason!) and everyone is slamming on their brakes. Yikes!! I'm checking my rearview to see if the car behind me is going to hit me. Why am I paranoid? I've been rear-ended on I-95 before (in my 98 Honda Accord). I got to watch it happen in slow motion in my rear-view. Here it comes.... WHAM! (Dammit!)
When I mentioned enjoying passing the Z06, it doesn't mean I was "RACING" him. Certainly not. He waived me past him on a straightaway because I was running faster than him. It's an etiquette thing and a rule for DE events. Racing is competitive... meaning that there are winners and losers, timed laps, and open passing. There are prizes or awards. None of that happens at a DE event.
I also didn't mean to confuse "open track days" and "Drivers Ed (DE)." To be clear... I am doing only DE events.
So... to demonstrate I'm not a complete idiot... Driving fast on a track DOES have risks. I believe they are calculated risks and much of that risk can be mitigated by being SMART and not letting your macho ego do the talking. If you are tired, pull into the pits!
All that said, I submit that DE events will make you a better driver. It will also make you LESS likely to push the envelope on the streets in your high performance car. After driving on the track, you realize that high speed driving on the streets is simply not fun (and not safe). DE events give you the opportunity to see what you and your car can do. Ramp up your efforts in small increments. YOU control the learning curve. Keep the learning curve shallow and you and your car will benefit. Listen to your instructor. If you can, ride with your instructor in his car and really watch him / her! You will learn tons. And then do DE events as often as the wallet will allow! :cool:
Mike
[i]"You said it's not racing, yet you took pride in being faster than something. That's racing, IMHO, even if they're not keeping track of lap times.
And as far as safety goes... well, I don't know that I agree, but I can't really argue as I haven't got experience on the track to compare it with, but I'm not the least bit nervous about my morning commute, even when I'm in my death-trap MR2"[/i]
I guess I should clarify a bit. I didn't mean to imply that driving fast on a track is without risks. I still contend it's safer than MY daily commute. But, bear in mind that I am in Palm Beach County (Southeast Florida), where we have some of the worst drivers in the country! I am serious when I say I am MUCH more worried about my STi (and ME!) getting whacked on I-95 than on the track at Moroso or Homestead. I have close calls almost every commute to work... You know, traffic suddenly slows down (for no apparent reason!) and everyone is slamming on their brakes. Yikes!! I'm checking my rearview to see if the car behind me is going to hit me. Why am I paranoid? I've been rear-ended on I-95 before (in my 98 Honda Accord). I got to watch it happen in slow motion in my rear-view. Here it comes.... WHAM! (Dammit!)
When I mentioned enjoying passing the Z06, it doesn't mean I was "RACING" him. Certainly not. He waived me past him on a straightaway because I was running faster than him. It's an etiquette thing and a rule for DE events. Racing is competitive... meaning that there are winners and losers, timed laps, and open passing. There are prizes or awards. None of that happens at a DE event.
I also didn't mean to confuse "open track days" and "Drivers Ed (DE)." To be clear... I am doing only DE events.
So... to demonstrate I'm not a complete idiot... Driving fast on a track DOES have risks. I believe they are calculated risks and much of that risk can be mitigated by being SMART and not letting your macho ego do the talking. If you are tired, pull into the pits!
All that said, I submit that DE events will make you a better driver. It will also make you LESS likely to push the envelope on the streets in your high performance car. After driving on the track, you realize that high speed driving on the streets is simply not fun (and not safe). DE events give you the opportunity to see what you and your car can do. Ramp up your efforts in small increments. YOU control the learning curve. Keep the learning curve shallow and you and your car will benefit. Listen to your instructor. If you can, ride with your instructor in his car and really watch him / her! You will learn tons. And then do DE events as often as the wallet will allow! :cool:
Mike
| IXLR8 | 06-28-2003 12:30 PM |
One of the best track time deals around for anyone thinking track driving might be for them is coming up next weekend at Summit Point (July 5 and 6).
Instead of the usual months in advance wait lists and all-day, $100-200 investments, NASA and BSR are sponsoring a weekend (Hyper-Fest, don't let the name put you off) where one can just show up (reservations are possible too) and buy single, 20 minute track sessions (three opportunities each, Sat and Sun.) The price, $40, includes a class room session and an in-car instructor.
This is "embedded" in a NASA race weekend that includes all the usual NASA classes, as well as stuff like a drifting and burnout contests, etc. Regardless of what one may think of slammed rice rockets, this is one opportunity for anyone in or around the DC area to try out track driving in a low cost, low risk setting.
For more info try this or the BSR website ([url]www.bsr-inc.com[/url])
[url]http://www.hyper-fest.com/HyperDrives.htm[/url]
Instead of the usual months in advance wait lists and all-day, $100-200 investments, NASA and BSR are sponsoring a weekend (Hyper-Fest, don't let the name put you off) where one can just show up (reservations are possible too) and buy single, 20 minute track sessions (three opportunities each, Sat and Sun.) The price, $40, includes a class room session and an in-car instructor.
This is "embedded" in a NASA race weekend that includes all the usual NASA classes, as well as stuff like a drifting and burnout contests, etc. Regardless of what one may think of slammed rice rockets, this is one opportunity for anyone in or around the DC area to try out track driving in a low cost, low risk setting.
For more info try this or the BSR website ([url]www.bsr-inc.com[/url])
[url]http://www.hyper-fest.com/HyperDrives.htm[/url]
| GarySheehan | 06-28-2003 05:18 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]Im sure high speed corners at the track are different,[/B][/QUOTE]
Kosta,
Medium and high speed corners are the biggest differentiator between autocross and track driving. Autocross never requires sustained steady-state cornering at the absolute limit of adhesion. This is where most autocrossers have the steepest learning curve.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]but the proper conservitive "slow in fast out" techinque works for every corner :) [/B][/QUOTE]
The conservative "slow in fast out" is just that, conservative. To be really fast around a track you need to develop "fast in fast out" techniques, or you'll be losing time to the fast guys in corner entry. The "fast in" part is by far the hardest part of track driving to learn.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
[B]Im sure high speed corners at the track are different,[/B][/QUOTE]
Kosta,
Medium and high speed corners are the biggest differentiator between autocross and track driving. Autocross never requires sustained steady-state cornering at the absolute limit of adhesion. This is where most autocrossers have the steepest learning curve.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]but the proper conservitive "slow in fast out" techinque works for every corner :) [/B][/QUOTE]
The conservative "slow in fast out" is just that, conservative. To be really fast around a track you need to develop "fast in fast out" techniques, or you'll be losing time to the fast guys in corner entry. The "fast in" part is by far the hardest part of track driving to learn.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| Kostamojen | 06-29-2003 04:36 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lukerussell [/i]
[B]if you show up at a track day in a stock wrx or even 2.5 rs, you will not be the slowest car out there. there are always 5 - 10 really slow cars out there, either low hp stock cars or just really bad drivers in "performance cars" or even 80 year old guys driving porsches. even if you were the slowest one there, it's still fun. if i took my pickup truck to the track, i'd be the slowest one there and it would still be fun. the thrill isn't passing people, it's exploring the performance of your car, letting the tires screeeech and the brakes smoke [/B][/QUOTE]
<- 1.8l engine!
Im not worry about passing people myself, Im not worried about competing or the good drivers passing me, im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything...
I truthfully have no idea how I would do my first time, since I havent done a track day yet. I suspect Ill be fine since Hawk in another 1.8 L simularly equiped to my car did fine, so I dont know.[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GarySheehan [/i]
[B] The conservative "slow in fast out" is just that, conservative. To be really fast around a track you need to develop "fast in fast out" techniques, or you'll be losing time to the fast guys in corner entry. The "fast in" part is by far the hardest part of track driving to learn.
[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Well thats all a given :p Im just saying that some people on their first time taking a corner they dont know go in WAY to hot without braking. I see it hapen all the time, heck I started out like that autocrossing but thats where i learned to go: FAST FAST FAST -> BRAKE HARD, now turn :p
The first lap or two on an unfamliar course is all about learning, then after that you increase your pase and entry speed while trying to widen your line at the same time to carry the most speed through the whole track... But for just out there having fun on a regular non-competetive track day, pushing the car all the way to the limits and slightly past your ability is never a good idea...
Thats why I say autocross is very beneficial in a seperate way from track days, as you can push the car to 10/10ths and beyond safely (which no, is not the best way to compete, but its a safer place to Learn) which helps you learn car control and give you experience in those types of situations. I wouldnt dare do this at a track, or you would end up in a wall at 60mph... :(
[B]if you show up at a track day in a stock wrx or even 2.5 rs, you will not be the slowest car out there. there are always 5 - 10 really slow cars out there, either low hp stock cars or just really bad drivers in "performance cars" or even 80 year old guys driving porsches. even if you were the slowest one there, it's still fun. if i took my pickup truck to the track, i'd be the slowest one there and it would still be fun. the thrill isn't passing people, it's exploring the performance of your car, letting the tires screeeech and the brakes smoke [/B][/QUOTE]
<- 1.8l engine!
Im not worry about passing people myself, Im not worried about competing or the good drivers passing me, im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything...
I truthfully have no idea how I would do my first time, since I havent done a track day yet. I suspect Ill be fine since Hawk in another 1.8 L simularly equiped to my car did fine, so I dont know.[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GarySheehan [/i]
[B] The conservative "slow in fast out" is just that, conservative. To be really fast around a track you need to develop "fast in fast out" techniques, or you'll be losing time to the fast guys in corner entry. The "fast in" part is by far the hardest part of track driving to learn.
[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Well thats all a given :p Im just saying that some people on their first time taking a corner they dont know go in WAY to hot without braking. I see it hapen all the time, heck I started out like that autocrossing but thats where i learned to go: FAST FAST FAST -> BRAKE HARD, now turn :p
The first lap or two on an unfamliar course is all about learning, then after that you increase your pase and entry speed while trying to widen your line at the same time to carry the most speed through the whole track... But for just out there having fun on a regular non-competetive track day, pushing the car all the way to the limits and slightly past your ability is never a good idea...
Thats why I say autocross is very beneficial in a seperate way from track days, as you can push the car to 10/10ths and beyond safely (which no, is not the best way to compete, but its a safer place to Learn) which helps you learn car control and give you experience in those types of situations. I wouldnt dare do this at a track, or you would end up in a wall at 60mph... :(
| fastwrx | 06-29-2003 10:16 AM |
Hi Kosta,
[i]"im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything..."[/i]
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike
[i]"im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything..."[/i]
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike
| sdecker | 06-29-2003 03:04 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]Hi Kosta,
[i]"im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything..."[/i]
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
ding-ding-ding!!!
[carny voice]
we have a winnah!
[/carny voice]
[B]Hi Kosta,
[i]"im just worried about those really bad drivers like you mention with the cars that are actually faster than mine in a straight line (which would probably be EVERYONE) passing me, then since I cant pass them in the corners I'd have to sit behind them while they suck and spend most of my racing time doing that rather than actually doing much of anything..."[/i]
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
ding-ding-ding!!!
[carny voice]
we have a winnah!
[/carny voice]
| Kostamojen | 06-30-2003 03:03 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by fastwrx [/i]
[B]Hi Kosta,
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Around here we get 5-6 runs in along with fun runs afterwards, for only about a total of 3-4 hours of having to be there. Personally I enjoy watching everyone else race and consider that part of the experience. I learn quite a bit from seeing how other people drive and the mistakes that occur on the course... I also think I'm getting addicted to the sudden addreneline rushes I get at autocrosses :p
Anyhow, ya I know about the flagging part, but in the case of that Z06 I would be down about 300hp on him yet I'd probably be able to take the corners faster... Its not quite the same compairing my car to a WRX, especially if youve never driven my car :( Im slower than your average minivan in a straight line... I just have no idea what will happen, I think I either need a head start in the front of the line or to be in the back of the line and let everyone go ahead a little :p
[B]Hi Kosta,
Not the case, actually. If you are faster in the turns, the guys with big HP who are "less skilled drivers" will not stay ahead of you just because they can fly in the straights. This is exactly why the guy in the Z06 had to waive me by at Homestead. He is MUCH faster in the straights, but I was on his ass at the end of every turn. DE rules and etiquette required him to wave me past him. And once I passed him, he never caught me, EVEN though he had 405 HP to carry him very quickly down the straights. He became a dot in the rearview of my '02 bone-stock WRX. The skills of braking and taking the best line through a turn are what make you fast on the track. To emphasize and avoid the previous concerns over racing... this is NOT racing. I'm just trying to explain that you won't be held back just because you have fewer HP than the other guys who are novices. And, if for some reason, you DO get stuck in "traffic" on the track, pull into pit lane, pause to let traffic go by, and then let the official wave you back onto the track when it's nice and clear.
I've thought I'd like to try autocross. But, the prospect of waiting an hour or more to drive for 1-1/2 minutes on a tiny little course doesn't sound fun to me. I much prefer going for 30 minutes at a time on a course that is long with many turns.
Mike [/B][/QUOTE]
Around here we get 5-6 runs in along with fun runs afterwards, for only about a total of 3-4 hours of having to be there. Personally I enjoy watching everyone else race and consider that part of the experience. I learn quite a bit from seeing how other people drive and the mistakes that occur on the course... I also think I'm getting addicted to the sudden addreneline rushes I get at autocrosses :p
Anyhow, ya I know about the flagging part, but in the case of that Z06 I would be down about 300hp on him yet I'd probably be able to take the corners faster... Its not quite the same compairing my car to a WRX, especially if youve never driven my car :( Im slower than your average minivan in a straight line... I just have no idea what will happen, I think I either need a head start in the front of the line or to be in the back of the line and let everyone go ahead a little :p
| GarySheehan | 06-30-2003 10:13 AM |
Kosta,
All this conjecture about what WOULD or COULD happen, I think you need to go to just one track day and tell us what DID happen!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
All this conjecture about what WOULD or COULD happen, I think you need to go to just one track day and tell us what DID happen!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| ITWRX4ME | 06-30-2003 11:21 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kostamojen [/i]
[B]
Around here we get 5-6 runs in along with fun runs afterwards, for only about a total of 3-4 hours of having to be there. Personally I enjoy watching everyone else race and consider that part of the experience. I learn quite a bit from seeing how other people drive and the mistakes that occur on the course... I also think I'm getting addicted to the sudden addreneline rushes I get at autocrosses :p[/B][/QUOTE]
"Watching everyone else" is a part of the track experience as well. The great thing is, you can follow them around the track while you do it. Better still, after you get comfortable at a given pace, you can find someone that is slightly faster than you and try to keep up with them.
As for adrenaline rush, what, you don't think there's adrenaline rush to be had on a road course? :lol: It's all in your approach. You can have a little "zing" kind of rush or you can have "poop in your pants" rush.
[B]
Around here we get 5-6 runs in along with fun runs afterwards, for only about a total of 3-4 hours of having to be there. Personally I enjoy watching everyone else race and consider that part of the experience. I learn quite a bit from seeing how other people drive and the mistakes that occur on the course... I also think I'm getting addicted to the sudden addreneline rushes I get at autocrosses :p[/B][/QUOTE]
"Watching everyone else" is a part of the track experience as well. The great thing is, you can follow them around the track while you do it. Better still, after you get comfortable at a given pace, you can find someone that is slightly faster than you and try to keep up with them.
As for adrenaline rush, what, you don't think there's adrenaline rush to be had on a road course? :lol: It's all in your approach. You can have a little "zing" kind of rush or you can have "poop in your pants" rush.
| Kostamojen | 07-01-2003 02:58 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by GarySheehan [/i]
[B]Kosta,
All this conjecture about what WOULD or COULD happen, I think you need to go to just one track day and tell us what DID happen!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Thunderhill August 27th :p
[B]Kosta,
All this conjecture about what WOULD or COULD happen, I think you need to go to just one track day and tell us what DID happen!
:devil:
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
Thunderhill August 27th :p
| GarySheehan | 07-01-2003 11:15 AM |
Nice!
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| hyperfast | 07-02-2003 03:45 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IXLR8 [/i]
[B]One of the best track time deals around for anyone thinking track driving might be for them is coming up next weekend at Summit Point (July 5 and 6).
For more info try this or the BSR website ([url]www.bsr-inc.com[/url])
[url]http://www.hyper-fest.com/HyperDrives.htm[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
ttt, anyone else doing this? The weather forecast looks good, we're gonna have a blast!
-HF
[B]One of the best track time deals around for anyone thinking track driving might be for them is coming up next weekend at Summit Point (July 5 and 6).
For more info try this or the BSR website ([url]www.bsr-inc.com[/url])
[url]http://www.hyper-fest.com/HyperDrives.htm[/url] [/B][/QUOTE]
ttt, anyone else doing this? The weather forecast looks good, we're gonna have a blast!
-HF
| ITWRX4ME | 07-03-2003 10:52 AM |
I am. It might rain Sat afternoon. I love Summit Point when it's wet! :devil:
| mhoward1 | 07-14-2003 03:01 PM |
Is the New section finished at SP yet?
| elgorey | 07-14-2003 04:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mh_WRX [/i]
[B]Is the New section finished at SP yet? [/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=391094[/url]
[B]Is the New section finished at SP yet? [/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=391094[/url]
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