| turboICE | 10-13-2005 03:39 PM |
Would you like to see 98-00 RS classed and raced in SCCA IT racing?
�
�
Some in the IT community think that there wouldn't be any interest in racing them, because "nobody is asking..."
I disagree I think no one is showing interest because of the GCR general ban on AWD outside of the Touring and SS classes.
If you would like to see more Subarus classed in more race classes and you are an SCCA member then write in:
[quote][b]crb[at]scca[dot]com
Please expand the permitted classing of AWD vehicles in 11.2.1.Y. to include Improved Touring.
With the addition of AWD vehicles to Touring and Showroom Stock, I would presume the SCCA intends on continuing to offer the opportunities for those cars after they have left those categories as they age out. Rather than having to consider the implications in the year before (or perhaps after) that happens, allow members to request the classing of cars that would otherwise fit the IT profile except that they are only available in AWD.
In particular, I would like to request the ITAC to class the 1998-2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS, which is only available with AWD. The current restriction in 11.2.1.Y. would prevent the ITAC from considering classing this car.
Regards,
Ed
Member ######[/b][/quote]
Unless I am wrong and nobody cares that Subarus can't be raced in most road racing classes.
One of a couple IT threads where AWD has been discussed.
[url]http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6317[/url]
I disagree I think no one is showing interest because of the GCR general ban on AWD outside of the Touring and SS classes.
If you would like to see more Subarus classed in more race classes and you are an SCCA member then write in:
[quote][b]crb[at]scca[dot]com
Please expand the permitted classing of AWD vehicles in 11.2.1.Y. to include Improved Touring.
With the addition of AWD vehicles to Touring and Showroom Stock, I would presume the SCCA intends on continuing to offer the opportunities for those cars after they have left those categories as they age out. Rather than having to consider the implications in the year before (or perhaps after) that happens, allow members to request the classing of cars that would otherwise fit the IT profile except that they are only available in AWD.
In particular, I would like to request the ITAC to class the 1998-2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS, which is only available with AWD. The current restriction in 11.2.1.Y. would prevent the ITAC from considering classing this car.
Regards,
Ed
Member ######[/b][/quote]
Unless I am wrong and nobody cares that Subarus can't be raced in most road racing classes.
One of a couple IT threads where AWD has been discussed.
[url]http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6317[/url]
| Ruff | 10-13-2005 04:22 PM |
If I was done with college, I would be all for this. And besides just the RS, more and more cars are coming out with Awd that could potentially be in classes similiar to the RS.
Just an FYI if anyone does submit that letter, post 98-01 to include all GC RS's.
Just an FYI if anyone does submit that letter, post 98-01 to include all GC RS's.
| zzyzx | 10-13-2005 04:31 PM |
The issue isn't an AWD ban, it's the fact nobody is proposing the classification of said car. The RS belongs in ITA, IMO, haven raced side-by-side with many an IT* car.
I ran my RS in ITE... but that's more of an open class than anything.
As to the nobody is asking issue... well, that's true.
- Steve
I ran my RS in ITE... but that's more of an open class than anything.
As to the nobody is asking issue... well, that's true.
- Steve
| turboICE | 10-13-2005 04:49 PM |
If you are a member you don't need to be out of school to write the letter. ;)
Yeah, you could include 01 now that it is almost 06. Car has to be five years old to be in IT is why I cut it off at 00.
Yeah, you could include 01 now that it is almost 06. Car has to be five years old to be in IT is why I cut it off at 00.
| turboICE | 10-13-2005 09:40 PM |
Steve yes there is an AWD ban, read 11.2.1.Y. in the GCR.
[quote]Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.[/quote]
And at stock HP of 165 - the starting point would be ITS. The question is how much weight the ITAC would try and burden it with because of its "killer advantage".
[quote]Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.[/quote]
And at stock HP of 165 - the starting point would be ITS. The question is how much weight the ITAC would try and burden it with because of its "killer advantage".
| Warp3 | 01-03-2006 11:23 AM |
I just revisited this topic since my 99RS is turning more and more into a race car (and I got hooked by last year's Club Trials / PDE event at CMP) and, as such, I would love to turn it into an IT car (even though I'd have to pull my cams and possibly some other mods to do so). But now rereading this and finding that AWD is currently flat out banned in IT (other than the catch-all ITE, of course) is very disheartening. :(
To be honest, I'd actually prefer to build it for Solo 1 (now called Track Trials) even more, but there are far more road races per year around here than there are Solo track events, making that a very bad idea. (Unless I'm reading the schedule wrong, I see a grand total of 1 Track Trial and 1 Hillclimb in the CCR region this coming season whereas there are about half a dozen roadraces during the same time period.)
Shane -- SM 729 (CCar Region)
To be honest, I'd actually prefer to build it for Solo 1 (now called Track Trials) even more, but there are far more road races per year around here than there are Solo track events, making that a very bad idea. (Unless I'm reading the schedule wrong, I see a grand total of 1 Track Trial and 1 Hillclimb in the CCR region this coming season whereas there are about half a dozen roadraces during the same time period.)
Shane -- SM 729 (CCar Region)
| turboICE | 01-03-2006 11:29 AM |
2000-2001 MY are classed in NASA's USTCC class [url]http://ustcc.com/pdf_doc/VSS-Subaru-RS.pdf[/url] contact them about adding the 98-99 to the spec.
Prep the car to that and run with NASA Mid-Atlantic with races at VIR, CMP and Summit Point. And this year NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio.
USTCC - think approximately IT level prep costs - less engine more chasis/body work permitted.
Prep the car to that and run with NASA Mid-Atlantic with races at VIR, CMP and Summit Point. And this year NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio.
USTCC - think approximately IT level prep costs - less engine more chasis/body work permitted.
| zzyzx | 01-03-2006 01:30 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]USTCC - think approximately IT level prep costs - less engine more chasis/body work permitted.[/QUOTE]
Apparently you didn't read the VSS (which I happened to write BTW...). USTCC RS engine > IT engine by a fair margin.
Shane - Bottom line if you're hell bent on road racing your RS... you will.. in ITE. If you wanted to be competitive in road racing, you wouldn't bother with an RS to begin with.
Apparently you didn't read the VSS (which I happened to write BTW...). USTCC RS engine > IT engine by a fair margin.
Shane - Bottom line if you're hell bent on road racing your RS... you will.. in ITE. If you wanted to be competitive in road racing, you wouldn't bother with an RS to begin with.
| turboICE | 01-03-2006 02:03 PM |
By referring to USTCC I was talking about the class generally which absent permissions in the VSS would be less than IT engine prep levels. I didn't read nor did I refer to the specific VSS.
And the point was neither he nor anyone else [i]has[/i] to road race their RS in ITE, there are alternatives.
And the point was neither he nor anyone else [i]has[/i] to road race their RS in ITE, there are alternatives.
| zzyzx | 01-03-2006 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]
2000-2001 MY are classed in NASA's USTCC class [url]http://ustcc.com/pdf_doc/VSS-Subaru-RS.pdf[/url] contact them about adding the 98-99 to the spec.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=turboICE]I didn't read nor did I refer to the specific VSS.[/quote]
Um, ok? :confused:
2000-2001 MY are classed in NASA's USTCC class [url]http://ustcc.com/pdf_doc/VSS-Subaru-RS.pdf[/url] contact them about adding the 98-99 to the spec.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=turboICE]I didn't read nor did I refer to the specific VSS.[/quote]
Um, ok? :confused:
| Warp3 | 01-03-2006 03:39 PM |
[quote=turboICE]2000-2001 MY are classed in NASA's USTCC class [url]http://ustcc.com/pdf_doc/VSS-Subaru-RS.pdf[/url] contact them about adding the 98-99 to the spec.
Prep the car to that and run with NASA Mid-Atlantic with races at VIR, CMP and Summit Point. And this year NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio.[/quote]
I may have to consider that option. I've heard pretty good things about NASA's track days, hill climbs, etc.
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Shane - Bottom line if you're hell bent on road racing your RS... you will.. in ITE.[/quote]
...or SPO, if I want to be even less competitive. :lol:
[quote]If you wanted to be competitive in road racing, you wouldn't bother with an RS to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I didn't buy the RS to road race it, I bought the RS new in late 98 (as my daily driver and sole car) and since then it has slowly worked its way into being less of a street car and more of a autocross/track car (currently in Street Modified trim). Now that I have a reliable daily driver to replace the street requirement (the Legacy), I've been considering the option of turning it into a real race car (stripped interior, full cage, etc.). I don't even mind if it isn't all that competitive in the class, just that it has a class available where it at least stands a remote chance with a good driver (if I ever actually become one of those :lol: ).
That said, though, I'd gladly switch to another inexpensive Subaru to race, but the only Subaru currently classed in IT or Production is a 1.4L GL Coupe in H-Prepared, complete with drum rear brakes. :rolleyes: The simple fact is that unless you are planning to run Showroom Stock or Touring, run way outgunned in a catch-all class (ITE, SPO, etc.), or run with someone other than the SCCA (i.e. NASA), you simply don't have any classing options available for an EJ-powered Subaru (or even a 1.6L or 1.8L EA-powered Subaru for that matter).
Shane -- SM 729 (CCar Region)
Prep the car to that and run with NASA Mid-Atlantic with races at VIR, CMP and Summit Point. And this year NASA Nationals at Mid-Ohio.[/quote]
I may have to consider that option. I've heard pretty good things about NASA's track days, hill climbs, etc.
[QUOTE=zzyzx]Shane - Bottom line if you're hell bent on road racing your RS... you will.. in ITE.[/quote]
...or SPO, if I want to be even less competitive. :lol:
[quote]If you wanted to be competitive in road racing, you wouldn't bother with an RS to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I didn't buy the RS to road race it, I bought the RS new in late 98 (as my daily driver and sole car) and since then it has slowly worked its way into being less of a street car and more of a autocross/track car (currently in Street Modified trim). Now that I have a reliable daily driver to replace the street requirement (the Legacy), I've been considering the option of turning it into a real race car (stripped interior, full cage, etc.). I don't even mind if it isn't all that competitive in the class, just that it has a class available where it at least stands a remote chance with a good driver (if I ever actually become one of those :lol: ).
That said, though, I'd gladly switch to another inexpensive Subaru to race, but the only Subaru currently classed in IT or Production is a 1.4L GL Coupe in H-Prepared, complete with drum rear brakes. :rolleyes: The simple fact is that unless you are planning to run Showroom Stock or Touring, run way outgunned in a catch-all class (ITE, SPO, etc.), or run with someone other than the SCCA (i.e. NASA), you simply don't have any classing options available for an EJ-powered Subaru (or even a 1.6L or 1.8L EA-powered Subaru for that matter).
Shane -- SM 729 (CCar Region)
| turboICE | 01-03-2006 04:03 PM |
zz - you can be as selective in your quotes as you want - the fact of the matter is:
1. I made a general statement about USTCC prep levels
2. You came back and said that it wasn't true of the RS (kewl and I readily accepted that)
3. I said I wasn't referring to the RS
Related to the topic of level of preparation I made no reference to the VSS, that is pretty clear. Pointing Shane towards the VSS does not carry over to the separate topic of general USTCC prep level.
Either your basic reading comprehension and ability to understand topic separation by paragraph is weak or more likely you just think you are being cute neither is very effective.
Be well,
Ed.
1. I made a general statement about USTCC prep levels
2. You came back and said that it wasn't true of the RS (kewl and I readily accepted that)
3. I said I wasn't referring to the RS
Related to the topic of level of preparation I made no reference to the VSS, that is pretty clear. Pointing Shane towards the VSS does not carry over to the separate topic of general USTCC prep level.
Either your basic reading comprehension and ability to understand topic separation by paragraph is weak or more likely you just think you are being cute neither is very effective.
Be well,
Ed.
| zzyzx | 01-03-2006 04:05 PM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]Either your basic reading comprehension and ability to understand topic separation by paragraph is weak or more likely you just think you are being cute neither is very effective.[/QUOTE]
Well, then I'm glad we cleared that up! :lol:
Well, then I'm glad we cleared that up! :lol:
| tm999xxx | 01-03-2006 05:10 PM |
[QUOTE]I've been considering the option of turning it into a real race car (stripped interior, full cage, etc.). I don't even mind if it isn't all that competitive in the class, just that it has a class available where it at least stands a remote chance with a good driver (if I ever actually become one of those ).[/QUOTE]
true story...
true story...
| kwh29 | 01-03-2006 05:31 PM |
Holy Ego Batman! Someone must have pissed in your wheaties this morning zzyzx and turboice!
On topic, I'd be all for applying pressure to the advisory committees as there has been quite a bit of noise about revisions in IT to better reflect realistic classing and inclusion of more vehicles. I think allowing AWD would be a great thing as that ban is a leftover reactionary thing from the Audi Quattro days. I do wonder how much of the receptiveness to change was due more to Steve Johnson and how much was real cultural change in the advisory committees.
Unfortunately the RS would most likely end up in ITS where it would likely get _trounced_. I think it could fit nicely in ITA but its strengths in rain might land a pretty defensive classing...
--Kevin H.
On topic, I'd be all for applying pressure to the advisory committees as there has been quite a bit of noise about revisions in IT to better reflect realistic classing and inclusion of more vehicles. I think allowing AWD would be a great thing as that ban is a leftover reactionary thing from the Audi Quattro days. I do wonder how much of the receptiveness to change was due more to Steve Johnson and how much was real cultural change in the advisory committees.
Unfortunately the RS would most likely end up in ITS where it would likely get _trounced_. I think it could fit nicely in ITA but its strengths in rain might land a pretty defensive classing...
--Kevin H.
| turboICE | 01-03-2006 07:09 PM |
I think a lot of it would depend on the weight given to it. The "rain effect" is real enough, but there are already weather advantages among drive trains and how many rain races are there really - I have a set of new hoosier rains that didn't get used once in 2005 with 12 races.
I think the HP potential in IT build trim would be ITS, but probably lower on ITS if you take into account power to the ground after drive train loss. At least initially they probably would weight it too high to be competitive in ITS, but I also don't know that it could even realisticly be taken down to a competitive weight legally even if they were to class it at a lower weight. Subarus are heavy. But then again there are a lot of noncompetitive cars in IT that people still race.
An ITA weight that would be fair would be nice reducing the need to look for weight reduction everywhere.
But then I guess my first goal would be to remove the ban in general, the details of where they end up can be dealt with in the application for classing after that.
Ed.
I think the HP potential in IT build trim would be ITS, but probably lower on ITS if you take into account power to the ground after drive train loss. At least initially they probably would weight it too high to be competitive in ITS, but I also don't know that it could even realisticly be taken down to a competitive weight legally even if they were to class it at a lower weight. Subarus are heavy. But then again there are a lot of noncompetitive cars in IT that people still race.
An ITA weight that would be fair would be nice reducing the need to look for weight reduction everywhere.
But then I guess my first goal would be to remove the ban in general, the details of where they end up can be dealt with in the application for classing after that.
Ed.
| enduroshark | 01-05-2006 10:45 AM |
I think you should start by proposing that:
11.2.1.Y.
Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.
Be deleted or at least ammended to include IT.
As an IT racer, I would definitely support the inclusion of AWD cars. Right now FWD cars have an advantage over RWD cars in the rain, so what's the difference?
The more the merrier.
11.2.1.Y.
Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.
Be deleted or at least ammended to include IT.
As an IT racer, I would definitely support the inclusion of AWD cars. Right now FWD cars have an advantage over RWD cars in the rain, so what's the difference?
The more the merrier.
| GQ | 01-05-2006 10:52 AM |
You raced in ITE! That seems like a really unfair classing for a 2.5RS.
[QUOTE=zzyzx]The issue isn't an AWD ban, it's the fact nobody is proposing the classification of said car. The RS belongs in ITA, IMO, haven raced side-by-side with many an IT* car.
I ran my RS in ITE... but that's more of an open class than anything.
As to the nobody is asking issue... well, that's true.
- Steve[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=zzyzx]The issue isn't an AWD ban, it's the fact nobody is proposing the classification of said car. The RS belongs in ITA, IMO, haven raced side-by-side with many an IT* car.
I ran my RS in ITE... but that's more of an open class than anything.
As to the nobody is asking issue... well, that's true.
- Steve[/QUOTE]
| turboICE | 01-05-2006 10:55 AM |
[QUOTE=enduroshark]I think you should start by proposing that:
11.2.1.Y.
Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.
Be deleted or at least ammended to include IT.
As an IT racer, I would definitely support the inclusion of AWD cars. Right now FWD cars have an advantage over RWD cars in the rain, so what's the difference?
The more the merrier.[/QUOTE]
That is what I did, see the first post of the thread. I sent this and asked that other SCCA members also send in with their thoughts:
[quote=letter sent to CRB][b]crb[at]scca[dot]com
Please expand the permitted classing of AWD vehicles in 11.2.1.Y. to include Improved Touring.
With the addition of AWD vehicles to Touring and Showroom Stock, I would presume the SCCA intends on continuing to offer the opportunities for those cars after they have left those categories as they age out. Rather than having to consider the implications in the year before (or perhaps after) that happens, allow members to request the classing of cars that would otherwise fit the IT profile except that they are only available in AWD.
In particular, I would like to request the ITAC to class the 1998-2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS, which is only available with AWD. The current restriction in 11.2.1.Y. would prevent the ITAC from considering classing this car.
Regards,
Ed
Member ######[/b][/quote]
11.2.1.Y.
Four wheel (All-Wheel) drive is prohibited except in Showroom Stock and Touring.
Be deleted or at least ammended to include IT.
As an IT racer, I would definitely support the inclusion of AWD cars. Right now FWD cars have an advantage over RWD cars in the rain, so what's the difference?
The more the merrier.[/QUOTE]
That is what I did, see the first post of the thread. I sent this and asked that other SCCA members also send in with their thoughts:
[quote=letter sent to CRB][b]crb[at]scca[dot]com
Please expand the permitted classing of AWD vehicles in 11.2.1.Y. to include Improved Touring.
With the addition of AWD vehicles to Touring and Showroom Stock, I would presume the SCCA intends on continuing to offer the opportunities for those cars after they have left those categories as they age out. Rather than having to consider the implications in the year before (or perhaps after) that happens, allow members to request the classing of cars that would otherwise fit the IT profile except that they are only available in AWD.
In particular, I would like to request the ITAC to class the 1998-2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS, which is only available with AWD. The current restriction in 11.2.1.Y. would prevent the ITAC from considering classing this car.
Regards,
Ed
Member ######[/b][/quote]
| enduroshark | 01-05-2006 10:57 AM |
I just sent my email in support also.
| turboICE | 01-05-2006 11:01 AM |
Kewl. Been disappointed given when I sent the letter to see NO reference to it at all in Fasttrack though.
| Storm | 01-06-2006 01:55 AM |
Why limit it to the RS? Imprezas have been made since 93? Some of the 1st gen legacies had 50/50 weight dist. and are still pretty light. The smaller motors would offset the supposed AWD advantage.
I think if you tried to include all Imprezas, they may be more inclined to do it and then adjust the minimum weight of the RS accordingly.
my $.02
Jay Storm
I think if you tried to include all Imprezas, they may be more inclined to do it and then adjust the minimum weight of the RS accordingly.
my $.02
Jay Storm
| enduroshark | 01-06-2006 08:44 AM |
[QUOTE=turboICE]Kewl. Been disappointed given when I sent the letter to see NO reference to it at all in Fasttrack though.[/QUOTE]
It takes a few months before you see something there.
It takes a few months before you see something there.
| enduroshark | 01-06-2006 08:45 AM |
[QUOTE=Storm]Why limit it to the RS? Imprezas have been made since 93? Some of the 1st gen legacies had 50/50 weight dist. and are still pretty light. The smaller motors would offset the supposed AWD advantage.
I think if you tried to include all Imprezas, they may be more inclined to do it and then adjust the minimum weight of the RS accordingly.
my $.02
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
When you make a request for classification for IT (and for any othe class), you need to complete a VTS form for each specific model you wat classified.
I think if you tried to include all Imprezas, they may be more inclined to do it and then adjust the minimum weight of the RS accordingly.
my $.02
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
When you make a request for classification for IT (and for any othe class), you need to complete a VTS form for each specific model you wat classified.
| ratt_finkel | 01-06-2006 10:59 AM |
Why did you leave out the MY01 in your letter?
| deuce.five | 01-06-2006 09:08 PM |
I think a spec class would be better. Similar to Spec Miata.
| tm999xxx | 02-03-2006 06:24 AM |
What is this I hear about a new point system and the impreza being classed with nasa?? Anyone have any info??
| turboICE | 02-03-2006 08:20 AM |
Why don't you check on the NASA boards dork! They disposed of Pro Sedan and started Pro Touring with a NASA-X/Time Trial format.
Tom, forum is here: [url]http://www.nasaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=16[/url]
Tom, forum is here: [url]http://www.nasaforums.com/viewforum.php?f=16[/url]
| drivrswntd | 02-03-2006 01:52 PM |
any possibility of this happening?
| turboICE | 02-03-2006 02:10 PM |
Which part?
SCCA IT classing - it depends on whether or not first the CRB removes the general banning of AWD from classes other than T and SS (helped along by letters to the CRB from SCCA members) and then second on the ITAC recommending and the CRB accepting a recommendation for classing.
NASA PT classing it has happened and is done, see the link I gave to Tom.
SCCA IT classing - it depends on whether or not first the CRB removes the general banning of AWD from classes other than T and SS (helped along by letters to the CRB from SCCA members) and then second on the ITAC recommending and the CRB accepting a recommendation for classing.
NASA PT classing it has happened and is done, see the link I gave to Tom.
| shemoves | 02-03-2006 02:19 PM |
Correct me if I am wrong, but the more Subarus that are in competitive racing, then greater numbers of an increasing quality of aftermarket parts will be developed at a quicker rate. Basically...competition=better parts. Yay from me.
| turboICE | 02-03-2006 02:27 PM |
Maybe yes, maybe no. There are a lot of Subaru's already in competitive racing and have been for years. I wouldn't see any increases in road racing classes providing any noticeable shift in the existing market. And in club racing you go with what is there or you make your own or you do without. Very rarely when a club racer does their own in their garage would they have a means of mass producing it out to the aftermarket at a price that the street market would pay.
Exactly what quality aftermarket parts are lacking currently?
Exactly what quality aftermarket parts are lacking currently?
| tm999xxx | 02-03-2006 04:04 PM |
[QUOTE]NASA PT classing it has happened and is done[/QUOTE]
this is good!!!!tom can now get on the track with out buying another car
!!!! cant wait till it rains
this is good!!!!tom can now get on the track with out buying another car
!!!! cant wait till it rains
| turboICE | 02-03-2006 04:07 PM |
You are assuming that you can build a safe car that will keep running and that the comp school instructors will agree that it would not be unsafe to give you a license to compete in wheel to wheel competition.
| tm999xxx | 02-03-2006 04:16 PM |
wasnt it your 240 that was mowing the infield and spilling 110 oct ? :p
| tm999xxx | 02-03-2006 04:17 PM |
for real though i need a good amount of seat time before im ready ..but if i can use the rs to practice rather than the sti..i think i will learn a bit more
| turboICE | 02-21-2006 12:27 PM |
Where are all those lettters? Only me and a Quatro guy?
[quote]14. ITS - Classify the Audi A4 Quatro (Phillips). The advisory committee will continue to explore AWD.
15. ITS - Allow AWD vehicles in IT (Haney). The advisory committee will continue to explore AWD.[/quote]
[quote]14. ITS - Classify the Audi A4 Quatro (Phillips). The advisory committee will continue to explore AWD.
15. ITS - Allow AWD vehicles in IT (Haney). The advisory committee will continue to explore AWD.[/quote]
| tm999xxx | 02-22-2006 07:20 AM |
give me the info on where to write and send to...
| turboICE | 02-22-2006 08:06 AM |
Email address is in the first post Tom.
Ed.
Ed.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét