| CirrusWRX | 09-18-2006 01:12 PM |
1/2 Page Volvo / At Speed Racing Ad - Thoughts?
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Anybody happen to catch the 1/2 page advertisement in USA Today (I'm sure other papers as well) that Volvo took out?
It has a big bold SAFETY FIRST, BY A MILE- NO, MAKE THAT TWO MILES
and a picture of the blue S60R from the Speed World Challenge race at the rainy Mosport track a weekend ago.
This is their quote:
[quote]Starting from the fifth position at mosport, Michael Galati drove his race-prepared all wheel drive volvo S60R to a dominant victory in the speed world challenge GT race. In a field stacked with Porsches, Corvettes, Vipers and various other performance cars, the Volvo S60R lapped everyone excpet the second-place finisher, who ended the race two miles behind. Of the S60R, Galati says, "The car's handling was perfect for the conditions. The AWD gave me excellent traction... I couldnt' be more pleased with the handling." It was one of the most lopsided series victories ever, blurring the line between safety and performance. Literlly. Volvo cars congratulates Bob Miller and his entire "At Speed Motorsports" team on this historic victory.
[/quote]
I'm all for "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday" and this race was a few weekends ago on 9/2, but, um, I'm not exactly sure I agree with the "spirit" of the ad.
Here's the PR from the World Challenge website for those who care to chime in. I'm probably making a bigger deal out of it than the situation merits, but...
[quote]
CANADA (Sep. 2, 2006) - Five-time SCCA Pro Racing SPEED World Challenge Champion Michael Galati, of Olmsted, Ohio, gave Volvo its first series win today in a dominating run at an extremely wet Mosport International Raceway. It was the first win for Galati in 18 races and Volvo became a winner for the first time after two full seasons of development. Tommy Archer, of Duluth, Minn., finished second.
Michael Galati en route to Volvo�s first-ever SPEED World Challenge GT victory at Mosport International Raceway (Weber image).
Utilizing all-wheel-drive in his fifth-starting No. 24 At-Speed Motorsports Volvo S60R, Galati shot to the lead by turn one to earn the B&M Oil Coolers Coolest Move of the Race and weathered heavy rain throughout to take a whopping one minute, 32.418-second win. The only thing in doubt was if Galati would be able to lap the field, but a late-race miss prevented him from catching Archer in the closing laps.
The rain slowed the pace of the 50-minute timed race to 78.340 mph.
"I don't know how this feels, to be back to the top step, yet,� Galati said of ending his dry spell. �It feels good to be here all the time and it was quite a tough race here last year and just to be back here feels good again. It"s fantastic. You might need to ask me later cause right now�I�ll let you know.�
While he controlled the race for the first 25 laps, the final two were cause of great concern as the car began to lose power. Worse, he had no communication with his team as the radios failed early in the race.
�Something happened with the motor, I don�t know what it was,� Galati said. �I had a misfire and it ran really bad and I just kept my fingers crossed. There was a lot of smoke, I almost choked. Then, Sonny [Whelen] spun right in front of me with a lap to go. Somebody was watching over me.
�Since the radios didn�t work, I had to look at the scoreboard. I could see that there was four minutes to go and then two. I was just hoping it would hang on.�
It was Galati�s 20th career win, fourth on the all-time series list, and the first since Road America in 2004.
Archer started eighth in his No. 5 c3controls/Dodge Motorsports Dodge Viper, but found himself solidly in third by the second lap. From there, he held on and eventually caught an ailing Ron Fellows in the closing laps to take second.
�I was thinking this morning that after I got messed up in qualifying that fifth would have been pretty fantastic, starting eight,� Archer beamed after his runner-up finish. �There were a lot of tough cars out there. I said to myself 'you need to take off nice and slow because we don�t have traction control,� and I almost killed it trying to take off too slow.
�The team kept giving me splits to where the fourth place car was and I just tried to keep catching traffic and putting lapped cars in between and it worked.�
Fellows, who started from the pole in his No. 16 XM/Mobil 1/Motorola/On Star Cadillac CTS-V, was the only driver who could run a lap time within two seconds of Galati, no doubt capitalizing on his track knowledge. The Mississauga, Ontario driver developed a late electrical problem, but was able to hold on to third, albeit one lap down to Galati.
�Conditions were obviously terrible, lots of standing water,� said Fellows, who entered the weekend with two wins in three tries at Mosport. �I was talking to SPEED Channel before the race about the Volvo and I said �well, I�m guessing he�ll get me before the bridge with that all-wheel-drive� and I was right. Other than that the car was fine. I did start losing power, I think it was sucking water and we lost about seven seconds a lap, between seven and nine, depending on how bad it was, and that was pretty much our race. We were able to hang on to third, which was good for Cadillac.�
James Sofronas, of Newport Beach, Calif., had a great run up from 14th on the grid to finish fourth in his No. 14 Global Motorsports Group Porsche 911 GT3. Bob Woodhouse, of Blair, Neb., was fifth in his No. 13 Woodhouse Auto Family Dodge Viper.
Point leader Lawson Aschenbach (No. 66 AXA Financial Porsche 911 GT3) was sixth, and earned the Piloti Rookie of the Race award as the top finishing rookie.
Tom Papadopoulos (Aston Martin DB9) had a career-best finish in seventh, followed by Ricardo Imery (Porsche 911 GT3), Lou Gigliotti (Chevrolet Corvette C6) and Rob Foster (Dodge Viper).
Sonny Whelen, of Old Saybrook, Conn., advanced 12 positions from his starting position to finish 12th in his No. 31 Whelen Engineering Chevrolet Corvette C6 to earn the Sunoco Hard Charger.
Aschenbach extended his point lead going into the penultimate round at Road Atlanta at the end of the month to nine over Gigliotti (193 to 184). Andy Pilgrim�s title defense took a major hit when his Cadillac developed running problems early in the race and led to a 21st-place finish. He remains third in points, with 171, followed by Imery (170) and Woodhouse (155).
Porsche still leads the Manufacturers� Championship Presented by RACER Magazine, but by just one point over Dodge, 48 to 47. Cadillac is third, with 41, followed by Chevrolet, with 34.
[/quote]
It has a big bold SAFETY FIRST, BY A MILE- NO, MAKE THAT TWO MILES
and a picture of the blue S60R from the Speed World Challenge race at the rainy Mosport track a weekend ago.
This is their quote:
[quote]Starting from the fifth position at mosport, Michael Galati drove his race-prepared all wheel drive volvo S60R to a dominant victory in the speed world challenge GT race. In a field stacked with Porsches, Corvettes, Vipers and various other performance cars, the Volvo S60R lapped everyone excpet the second-place finisher, who ended the race two miles behind. Of the S60R, Galati says, "The car's handling was perfect for the conditions. The AWD gave me excellent traction... I couldnt' be more pleased with the handling." It was one of the most lopsided series victories ever, blurring the line between safety and performance. Literlly. Volvo cars congratulates Bob Miller and his entire "At Speed Motorsports" team on this historic victory.
[/quote]
I'm all for "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday" and this race was a few weekends ago on 9/2, but, um, I'm not exactly sure I agree with the "spirit" of the ad.
Here's the PR from the World Challenge website for those who care to chime in. I'm probably making a bigger deal out of it than the situation merits, but...
[quote]
CANADA (Sep. 2, 2006) - Five-time SCCA Pro Racing SPEED World Challenge Champion Michael Galati, of Olmsted, Ohio, gave Volvo its first series win today in a dominating run at an extremely wet Mosport International Raceway. It was the first win for Galati in 18 races and Volvo became a winner for the first time after two full seasons of development. Tommy Archer, of Duluth, Minn., finished second.
Michael Galati en route to Volvo�s first-ever SPEED World Challenge GT victory at Mosport International Raceway (Weber image).
Utilizing all-wheel-drive in his fifth-starting No. 24 At-Speed Motorsports Volvo S60R, Galati shot to the lead by turn one to earn the B&M Oil Coolers Coolest Move of the Race and weathered heavy rain throughout to take a whopping one minute, 32.418-second win. The only thing in doubt was if Galati would be able to lap the field, but a late-race miss prevented him from catching Archer in the closing laps.
The rain slowed the pace of the 50-minute timed race to 78.340 mph.
"I don't know how this feels, to be back to the top step, yet,� Galati said of ending his dry spell. �It feels good to be here all the time and it was quite a tough race here last year and just to be back here feels good again. It"s fantastic. You might need to ask me later cause right now�I�ll let you know.�
While he controlled the race for the first 25 laps, the final two were cause of great concern as the car began to lose power. Worse, he had no communication with his team as the radios failed early in the race.
�Something happened with the motor, I don�t know what it was,� Galati said. �I had a misfire and it ran really bad and I just kept my fingers crossed. There was a lot of smoke, I almost choked. Then, Sonny [Whelen] spun right in front of me with a lap to go. Somebody was watching over me.
�Since the radios didn�t work, I had to look at the scoreboard. I could see that there was four minutes to go and then two. I was just hoping it would hang on.�
It was Galati�s 20th career win, fourth on the all-time series list, and the first since Road America in 2004.
Archer started eighth in his No. 5 c3controls/Dodge Motorsports Dodge Viper, but found himself solidly in third by the second lap. From there, he held on and eventually caught an ailing Ron Fellows in the closing laps to take second.
�I was thinking this morning that after I got messed up in qualifying that fifth would have been pretty fantastic, starting eight,� Archer beamed after his runner-up finish. �There were a lot of tough cars out there. I said to myself 'you need to take off nice and slow because we don�t have traction control,� and I almost killed it trying to take off too slow.
�The team kept giving me splits to where the fourth place car was and I just tried to keep catching traffic and putting lapped cars in between and it worked.�
Fellows, who started from the pole in his No. 16 XM/Mobil 1/Motorola/On Star Cadillac CTS-V, was the only driver who could run a lap time within two seconds of Galati, no doubt capitalizing on his track knowledge. The Mississauga, Ontario driver developed a late electrical problem, but was able to hold on to third, albeit one lap down to Galati.
�Conditions were obviously terrible, lots of standing water,� said Fellows, who entered the weekend with two wins in three tries at Mosport. �I was talking to SPEED Channel before the race about the Volvo and I said �well, I�m guessing he�ll get me before the bridge with that all-wheel-drive� and I was right. Other than that the car was fine. I did start losing power, I think it was sucking water and we lost about seven seconds a lap, between seven and nine, depending on how bad it was, and that was pretty much our race. We were able to hang on to third, which was good for Cadillac.�
James Sofronas, of Newport Beach, Calif., had a great run up from 14th on the grid to finish fourth in his No. 14 Global Motorsports Group Porsche 911 GT3. Bob Woodhouse, of Blair, Neb., was fifth in his No. 13 Woodhouse Auto Family Dodge Viper.
Point leader Lawson Aschenbach (No. 66 AXA Financial Porsche 911 GT3) was sixth, and earned the Piloti Rookie of the Race award as the top finishing rookie.
Tom Papadopoulos (Aston Martin DB9) had a career-best finish in seventh, followed by Ricardo Imery (Porsche 911 GT3), Lou Gigliotti (Chevrolet Corvette C6) and Rob Foster (Dodge Viper).
Sonny Whelen, of Old Saybrook, Conn., advanced 12 positions from his starting position to finish 12th in his No. 31 Whelen Engineering Chevrolet Corvette C6 to earn the Sunoco Hard Charger.
Aschenbach extended his point lead going into the penultimate round at Road Atlanta at the end of the month to nine over Gigliotti (193 to 184). Andy Pilgrim�s title defense took a major hit when his Cadillac developed running problems early in the race and led to a 21st-place finish. He remains third in points, with 171, followed by Imery (170) and Woodhouse (155).
Porsche still leads the Manufacturers� Championship Presented by RACER Magazine, but by just one point over Dodge, 48 to 47. Cadillac is third, with 41, followed by Chevrolet, with 34.
[/quote]
| bjorn240 | 09-18-2006 01:32 PM |
Ok, I'm confused. What do you find objectionable about the advertisement? That all wheel drive cars have an advantage in the wet?
| cooleyjb | 09-18-2006 01:38 PM |
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say it's pretty good marketing. Hmmmm..... AWD was better in the rain (safer for everyday drivers).
When people think of AWD cars they think of Subaru and Audi first. This is the right step for Volvo and their AWD.
Plus Galati crushed everyone, lapping the field up to 3rd place. AWD or not that is one heck of a drive.
When people think of AWD cars they think of Subaru and Audi first. This is the right step for Volvo and their AWD.
Plus Galati crushed everyone, lapping the field up to 3rd place. AWD or not that is one heck of a drive.
| CirrusWRX | 09-18-2006 03:31 PM |
Well okay, that's why I think I'm probably just overreacting, but this is what I read:
On the plus side:
1. Volvo has been working hard to get the car to where it is
2. Galati is a good driver
3. A win is a win, no matter how it's done
On the negative side:
1. It was pouring rain, so obviously a car with AWD is going to have an advantage- duh.
2. There were several pileups throughout the race that left the Volvo fortuitously unscathed, good driving notwithstanding
3. The Volvo almost blew up at the end
4. A "good race" means different things to different people, but "lapping all but 1 car" does not, for me anyway, qualify as a "good race"- it means one of several things. Either the car/driver in question is woefully outperforming the rest of the field or something tragic happened during the race that caused such a huge gap to be attained. In this case, BOTH of these things happened. The AWD of the Volvo finally paid off due to the conditions and that's great. But Galati is not "that much more amazing" of a driver that he was able to lap the entire field.
[u]So what does that leave me with after seeing this ad? Let me break it apart:[/u]
[b]Starting from the fifth position at mosport, Michael Galati drove his race-prepared all wheel drive volvo S60R to a dominant victory in the speed world challenge GT race. [/b]
OK - he didn't qualify in the top three which leads me to believe either there were problems during qualifying (it wasn't raining yet) or there was a pileup that he snuck out of. (which he did several times) - That's great!
[b]In a field stacked with Porsches, Corvettes, Vipers and various other performance cars, the Volvo S60R lapped everyone excpet the second-place finisher, who ended the race two miles behind.
[/b]THIS is what I have a problem with. If your Volvo is THAT damned good then something is wrong with the series or something was seriously wrong with the race. You should be in first place overall by now, you should be carrying a restrictor plate and more weight because if you can lap everybody in the field, you're no better than the debut race(s) with the Cadalliac CTS-V's. Touting your first win by claiming you're so friggin fast that you literally destroyed the competition means you had either gotten EXTREMELY lucky or your car isn't classed correctly.
[b]
Of the S60R, Galati says, "The car's handling was perfect for the conditions. The AWD gave me excellent traction... I couldnt' be more pleased with the handling." It was one of the most lopsided series victories ever, blurring the line between safety and performance. Literlly.
[/b]...Except for that whole smoking and misfiring engine thing at the end that might've resulted in a DNF, but instead we lucked out, but that's okay - the handling was SUPERB!
That's my beef: They've been "developing" this car for 3 years and have run it 4 times in competition. 2 podiums including this one, and a top 10 finish. They have huge financial pockets (IMO) over the smaller teams and a great driver at the helm, one would expect them to do well, and they deserve it.
But c'mon! They won ONE race in the remnants of tropical storm Ernesto which involved numerous on and off track incidents allowing them to essentially lap the ENTIRE field (all but one), STILL have potentially catastrohpic engine/electrical problems near the end of the race, and claim they're the kings of the racing?!?
THAT is why I don't care for the ad and feel it's a bit misleeding. Show me some repeatable results and stake your claim to the title, but don't rub everybody else's nose in your fluke podium finish by claiming you pummeled the competition so far into submission because of your ultra-special-superior-in-every-way vehicle.
On the plus side:
1. Volvo has been working hard to get the car to where it is
2. Galati is a good driver
3. A win is a win, no matter how it's done
On the negative side:
1. It was pouring rain, so obviously a car with AWD is going to have an advantage- duh.
2. There were several pileups throughout the race that left the Volvo fortuitously unscathed, good driving notwithstanding
3. The Volvo almost blew up at the end
4. A "good race" means different things to different people, but "lapping all but 1 car" does not, for me anyway, qualify as a "good race"- it means one of several things. Either the car/driver in question is woefully outperforming the rest of the field or something tragic happened during the race that caused such a huge gap to be attained. In this case, BOTH of these things happened. The AWD of the Volvo finally paid off due to the conditions and that's great. But Galati is not "that much more amazing" of a driver that he was able to lap the entire field.
[u]So what does that leave me with after seeing this ad? Let me break it apart:[/u]
[b]Starting from the fifth position at mosport, Michael Galati drove his race-prepared all wheel drive volvo S60R to a dominant victory in the speed world challenge GT race. [/b]
OK - he didn't qualify in the top three which leads me to believe either there were problems during qualifying (it wasn't raining yet) or there was a pileup that he snuck out of. (which he did several times) - That's great!
[b]In a field stacked with Porsches, Corvettes, Vipers and various other performance cars, the Volvo S60R lapped everyone excpet the second-place finisher, who ended the race two miles behind.
[/b]THIS is what I have a problem with. If your Volvo is THAT damned good then something is wrong with the series or something was seriously wrong with the race. You should be in first place overall by now, you should be carrying a restrictor plate and more weight because if you can lap everybody in the field, you're no better than the debut race(s) with the Cadalliac CTS-V's. Touting your first win by claiming you're so friggin fast that you literally destroyed the competition means you had either gotten EXTREMELY lucky or your car isn't classed correctly.
[b]
Of the S60R, Galati says, "The car's handling was perfect for the conditions. The AWD gave me excellent traction... I couldnt' be more pleased with the handling." It was one of the most lopsided series victories ever, blurring the line between safety and performance. Literlly.
[/b]...Except for that whole smoking and misfiring engine thing at the end that might've resulted in a DNF, but instead we lucked out, but that's okay - the handling was SUPERB!
That's my beef: They've been "developing" this car for 3 years and have run it 4 times in competition. 2 podiums including this one, and a top 10 finish. They have huge financial pockets (IMO) over the smaller teams and a great driver at the helm, one would expect them to do well, and they deserve it.
But c'mon! They won ONE race in the remnants of tropical storm Ernesto which involved numerous on and off track incidents allowing them to essentially lap the ENTIRE field (all but one), STILL have potentially catastrohpic engine/electrical problems near the end of the race, and claim they're the kings of the racing?!?
THAT is why I don't care for the ad and feel it's a bit misleeding. Show me some repeatable results and stake your claim to the title, but don't rub everybody else's nose in your fluke podium finish by claiming you pummeled the competition so far into submission because of your ultra-special-superior-in-every-way vehicle.
| NYEJ25 | 09-18-2006 03:35 PM |
Much "to do" about nothing.
| bjorn240 | 09-18-2006 03:39 PM |
Almost blew up? It didn't result in a DNF, did it? And while AWD might be a disadvantage on dry days, apparently, it's quite good in the wet. So they earned the podium just like everyone else does every day of the week.
I say good for them. They had a good outing and reaped the rewards.
- Christian
I say good for them. They had a good outing and reaped the rewards.
- Christian
| WRXster | 09-18-2006 03:42 PM |
Not Subaru = Don't Care!
�
�
Volvo = :disco:ass
| REX8 | 09-18-2006 03:45 PM |
Who cars if they'll add weigh to the Volvo, or if it was beacuse of the rain.
Did you want the add to say, Volvo beats Por, Vette's, etc., but next race, we probably won't. ????:lol:
The add stated EXACTLY what they did, no lying, not even a stretching of the true.
Should Volvo have to keep it a secret that they almost lapped the whole field???
The world is getting pretty cynical if after every positive result, you can't report it without stating...."but we might not win again"...
No idea what the heck you are compaing about. Volvo stated the facts...PERIOD.
Did you want the add to say, Volvo beats Por, Vette's, etc., but next race, we probably won't. ????:lol:
The add stated EXACTLY what they did, no lying, not even a stretching of the true.
Should Volvo have to keep it a secret that they almost lapped the whole field???
The world is getting pretty cynical if after every positive result, you can't report it without stating...."but we might not win again"...
No idea what the heck you are compaing about. Volvo stated the facts...PERIOD.
| Scoobie Doogie | 09-18-2006 03:46 PM |
Cirrus-
Chill out man. THEY WON and used it to help market their cars. People don't give 2 poops about the specifics of the race. BTW is was NOT a mis-leding ad as far as ad's go. This is why Volvo and EVERY other manufacturer participate in racing, to sell cars. Besides a win is a win and they did it legally and ethically. Galati deserved to win and so did the team, that's racing. Team At-Speed had the best driver and best prepped car for the day that wasn't crushed in a pileup.
Does Subaru have to stipulate the WRX is really an understeering PIG in their ads?
Dave Mac
I expect a little more levity from someone who has reached Guru status.
Chill out man. THEY WON and used it to help market their cars. People don't give 2 poops about the specifics of the race. BTW is was NOT a mis-leding ad as far as ad's go. This is why Volvo and EVERY other manufacturer participate in racing, to sell cars. Besides a win is a win and they did it legally and ethically. Galati deserved to win and so did the team, that's racing. Team At-Speed had the best driver and best prepped car for the day that wasn't crushed in a pileup.
Does Subaru have to stipulate the WRX is really an understeering PIG in their ads?
Dave Mac
I expect a little more levity from someone who has reached Guru status.
| Draken | 09-18-2006 03:53 PM |
Oh criminy. What a waste of space. They won the race by literally 2 miles. Yes, many things added up to allow that, but so what. they still won. Get over it.
Chris H.
[COLOR="Silver"]touch me Hoppe[/COLOR]
Chris H.
[COLOR="Silver"]touch me Hoppe[/COLOR]
| trhoppe | 09-18-2006 03:54 PM |
I would be doing the same thing and have the SAME EXACT press release if I won something in that way.
I don't care if it was raining, I don't care if a hurricane or tornado hit the first 10 cars and I still won. Win is a win is a win.
-Tom
I don't care if it was raining, I don't care if a hurricane or tornado hit the first 10 cars and I still won. Win is a win is a win.
-Tom
| Scoobie Doogie | 09-18-2006 04:33 PM |
Draken is teh sickness..
Dave Mac
Dave Mac
| OBShahn | 09-18-2006 05:50 PM |
no such thing as just getting lucky in racing...
you have to have the car and the driver to capitolize and be in the right place at the right time.
The volvo win a Mosport was a case of the right car, wit hthe right driver, at the right track with the right conditions. That is what racing is.
Cars that win championships just happen to be the right car with the right driver at more of the right tracks...
The Volvo ad is just saying we were the right car for these conditions and we beat the living snot out of everybody else. Since it was wet we blended safety (AWD handling in poor conditions) with peformance (beating the whole freaking field, and you knwo what, if someone crashes you still beat them).
you have to have the car and the driver to capitolize and be in the right place at the right time.
The volvo win a Mosport was a case of the right car, wit hthe right driver, at the right track with the right conditions. That is what racing is.
Cars that win championships just happen to be the right car with the right driver at more of the right tracks...
The Volvo ad is just saying we were the right car for these conditions and we beat the living snot out of everybody else. Since it was wet we blended safety (AWD handling in poor conditions) with peformance (beating the whole freaking field, and you knwo what, if someone crashes you still beat them).
| zzyzx | 09-18-2006 05:52 PM |
[QUOTE=Draken;15287996]Oh criminy. What a waste of space.[/QUOTE]
12345
12345
| CirrusWRX | 09-18-2006 08:22 PM |
Wow - not a single person sees it my way :lol:
:shrug:
Oh well, I suppose it's me then, I'm alright with that.
BTW, the ad made absolutely NO mention of the conditions, neither does the photo indicate inclemet weather of any sort. And just some more food for thought about using a single (outliar, in my opinion) event for marketing purposes- what if a Porsche driver punted 2 people off the track or a Cadiallac CTS team blocked a competitor to win a race? Is it OK to boast then? Because many of you seem to indicate you feel a win is a win no matter how it happens, right?
I just have a hard time seeing a Volvo Racing ad when a google search on "Volvo Racing" only yields a bunch of articles about sailboats.
One outliar result of one race does not a racing heritage make.
</me, apologize for wasting your time>
:shrug:
Oh well, I suppose it's me then, I'm alright with that.
BTW, the ad made absolutely NO mention of the conditions, neither does the photo indicate inclemet weather of any sort. And just some more food for thought about using a single (outliar, in my opinion) event for marketing purposes- what if a Porsche driver punted 2 people off the track or a Cadiallac CTS team blocked a competitor to win a race? Is it OK to boast then? Because many of you seem to indicate you feel a win is a win no matter how it happens, right?
I just have a hard time seeing a Volvo Racing ad when a google search on "Volvo Racing" only yields a bunch of articles about sailboats.
One outliar result of one race does not a racing heritage make.
</me, apologize for wasting your time>
| MattNJ2.8 | 09-18-2006 08:57 PM |
Kyle, did you happen to watch the race?
Volvo won fair and square.
The S60R wasn't the only AWD car in the race. Yet why did Galati lap the field?
Volvo won fair and square.
The S60R wasn't the only AWD car in the race. Yet why did Galati lap the field?
| AndyRoo | 09-18-2006 09:12 PM |
[QUOTE=bjorn240;15287788]Almost blew up? It didn't result in a DNF, did it? And while AWD might be a disadvantage on dry days, apparently, it's quite good in the wet. So they earned the podium just like everyone else does every day of the week.
I say good for them. They had a good outing and reaped the rewards.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
Racecars are [B]supposed [/B]to almost blow up as they cross the finish line.... :)
- andrew
I say good for them. They had a good outing and reaped the rewards.
- Christian[/QUOTE]
Racecars are [B]supposed [/B]to almost blow up as they cross the finish line.... :)
- andrew
| OBShahn | 09-18-2006 09:13 PM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX;15291653]Wow - not a single person sees it my way :lol:
:shrug:
Oh well, I suppose it's me then, I'm alright with that.
BTW, the ad made absolutely NO mention of the conditions, neither does the photo indicate inclemet weather of any sort. And just some more food for thought about using a single (outliar, in my opinion) event for marketing purposes- what if a Porsche driver punted 2 people off the track or a Cadiallac CTS team blocked a competitor to win a race? Is it OK to boast then? Because many of you seem to indicate you feel a win is a win no matter how it happens, right?
I just have a hard time seeing a Volvo Racing ad when a google search on "Volvo Racing" only yields a bunch of articles about sailboats.
One outliar result of one race does not a racing heritage make.
</me, apologize for wasting your time>[/QUOTE]
You have a pretty idealistic expectation of how marketing works...
How many Subaru ads with WRC cars do you see when the are being beat by B-teams?
It is all about brand percpetion and awareness.
Nobody griped when Lexus ran a commercial featuring rally competition despite the fact that they don't even compete....
:shrug:
Oh well, I suppose it's me then, I'm alright with that.
BTW, the ad made absolutely NO mention of the conditions, neither does the photo indicate inclemet weather of any sort. And just some more food for thought about using a single (outliar, in my opinion) event for marketing purposes- what if a Porsche driver punted 2 people off the track or a Cadiallac CTS team blocked a competitor to win a race? Is it OK to boast then? Because many of you seem to indicate you feel a win is a win no matter how it happens, right?
I just have a hard time seeing a Volvo Racing ad when a google search on "Volvo Racing" only yields a bunch of articles about sailboats.
One outliar result of one race does not a racing heritage make.
</me, apologize for wasting your time>[/QUOTE]
You have a pretty idealistic expectation of how marketing works...
How many Subaru ads with WRC cars do you see when the are being beat by B-teams?
It is all about brand percpetion and awareness.
Nobody griped when Lexus ran a commercial featuring rally competition despite the fact that they don't even compete....
| RaceComp Engineering | 09-18-2006 09:27 PM |
I dont normally put my .02 cents in on things like this....BUT,......I know these guys and they are a couple oif miles from our shop. They dont do all the races and Bob Miller started like me in the Friday at the track events over 12 years ago. For those guys to win in an arena where people spend ALOT of money,..........................well. Like Hoppe said .." a win is a win, no matter how it happens..."
When you take,take,take from sponsors and dont give much back.....you NEED this type of event to keep things going and yes I would be as vocal if not more if I won a race on that level.
After a couple of Million dollars a year in budget you NEED a win on the books. When these guys go to get more money, they now have a win under their belts,..it makes a difference. My current sponsor isnt putting much pressure on me in my racing but I put that pressure on me.
Thread starter,..I know where ya coming from,..but winning is winning man.
I won my SCCA school race and couldnt understand where the tears came from in my helmet.............................." winning" will do it to the strongest.
Myles
When you take,take,take from sponsors and dont give much back.....you NEED this type of event to keep things going and yes I would be as vocal if not more if I won a race on that level.
After a couple of Million dollars a year in budget you NEED a win on the books. When these guys go to get more money, they now have a win under their belts,..it makes a difference. My current sponsor isnt putting much pressure on me in my racing but I put that pressure on me.
Thread starter,..I know where ya coming from,..but winning is winning man.
I won my SCCA school race and couldnt understand where the tears came from in my helmet.............................." winning" will do it to the strongest.
Myles
| MPME | 09-18-2006 10:01 PM |
Volvo NA pulled their factory support in the middle of 2005 when they had a change of CEO. The three year deal was only 1.5 years old at that point; they chose to sponsor PGA events instead of supporting the AtSpeed team.
AtSpeed has paid for ALL of the development since--and that's when the cars started to improve. It's hypocritical for Volvo to take out an ad touting their cars after they yanked their involvement last year. They also invested none of their technical expertise as they have no technical expertise for the type of SPEED GT car being raced.
The team did all of the R&D.
AtSpeed has paid for ALL of the development since--and that's when the cars started to improve. It's hypocritical for Volvo to take out an ad touting their cars after they yanked their involvement last year. They also invested none of their technical expertise as they have no technical expertise for the type of SPEED GT car being raced.
The team did all of the R&D.
| WRXedUSA | 09-19-2006 10:02 AM |
I saw the ad yesterday, and I will say Corvette would have done/has done the same.
| Student Driver | 09-19-2006 11:27 AM |
Wasn't the 911 Turbo AWD as well? I remember them mentioning that as it was sliding off into the grass. After looking at the results, he was [i]only[/i] 6 laps down on the leader. I guess it's safe to say that the driver and Volvo team were somehow involved in the win... :)
[url]http://www.world-challenge.com/events/raceresults.php?ID=337[/url]
[url]http://www.world-challenge.com/events/raceresults.php?ID=337[/url]
| ExitVisa | 09-19-2006 11:41 AM |
C'mon man, they're marketing weenies. Making it sound like the car just prevented the apocalypse after one race-of-attrition win is their job.
| cooleyjb | 09-19-2006 12:46 PM |
[QUOTE=Student Driver;15298534]Wasn't the 911 Turbo AWD as well? I remember them mentioning that as it was sliding off into the grass. After looking at the results, he was [i]only[/i] 6 laps down on the leader. I guess it's safe to say that the driver and Volvo team were somehow involved in the win... :)
[url]http://www.world-challenge.com/events/raceresults.php?ID=337[/url][/QUOTE]
They race the GT3 in that series which is RWD.
[url]http://www.world-challenge.com/events/raceresults.php?ID=337[/url][/QUOTE]
They race the GT3 in that series which is RWD.
| cooleyjb | 09-19-2006 12:48 PM |
[QUOTE=MPME;15292815]Volvo NA pulled their factory support in the middle of 2005 when they had a change of CEO. The three year deal was only 1.5 years old at that point; they chose to sponsor PGA events instead of supporting the AtSpeed team.
AtSpeed has paid for ALL of the development since--and that's when the cars started to improve. It's hypocritical for Volvo to take out an ad touting their cars after they yanked their involvement last year. They also invested none of their technical expertise as they have no technical expertise for the type of SPEED GT car being raced.
The team did all of the R&D.[/QUOTE]
Also talking with some of the PTG guys at Road America they were saying the car is possibly the one car that is farthest from stock out there too. Althought that is just a bunch of talk from BMW guys. Also wasn't the car really holding down the back of the pack in 2005.
Marshall are you going to be at RA with Larry Webster's Miata team??
Here is some Volvo from Road America at Canada Corner last month too. Thread needs more pictures.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Volvo.jpg[/IMG]
AtSpeed has paid for ALL of the development since--and that's when the cars started to improve. It's hypocritical for Volvo to take out an ad touting their cars after they yanked their involvement last year. They also invested none of their technical expertise as they have no technical expertise for the type of SPEED GT car being raced.
The team did all of the R&D.[/QUOTE]
Also talking with some of the PTG guys at Road America they were saying the car is possibly the one car that is farthest from stock out there too. Althought that is just a bunch of talk from BMW guys. Also wasn't the car really holding down the back of the pack in 2005.
Marshall are you going to be at RA with Larry Webster's Miata team??
Here is some Volvo from Road America at Canada Corner last month too. Thread needs more pictures.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Volvo.jpg[/IMG]
| PossumK | 09-19-2006 01:06 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;15299800]They race the GT3 in that series which is RWD.[/QUOTE]
There was one 911 Turbo in that race. It's in the link Student Driver gave.
There was one 911 Turbo in that race. It's in the link Student Driver gave.
| LastResort | 09-19-2006 01:09 PM |
anybody have a copy/scan of said ad?
| cooleyjb | 09-19-2006 01:19 PM |
[QUOTE=PossumK;15300127]There was one 911 Turbo in that race. It's in the link Student Driver gave.[/QUOTE]
I remember that team. They are a low budget team so it's a tough comparison. He was out there with a pickup and a gooseneck trailer compared to the full race rigs of everyone else. He drove the car well but just doesn't have as much support as the big teams. I didn't realize it was a turbo.
Here's a shot of him coming into turn 5.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Hurricane.jpg[/IMG]
I remember that team. They are a low budget team so it's a tough comparison. He was out there with a pickup and a gooseneck trailer compared to the full race rigs of everyone else. He drove the car well but just doesn't have as much support as the big teams. I didn't realize it was a turbo.
Here's a shot of him coming into turn 5.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Hurricane.jpg[/IMG]
| zzyzx | 09-19-2006 03:31 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb]Also talking with some of the PTG guys at Road America they were saying the car is possibly the one car that is farthest from stock out there too. [/QUOTE]
That's about right. The entire drivetrain was replaced because the Volvo unit simply wasn't up to the task. I believe the tranny is built by Xtrac ($$). I don't believe there's any "Volvo" left in the tranny/differentials. Motor is (Was?) built by Cosworth - no suprises there. I'm not sure just how heavily modified the suspension/pickup points are. The At Speed team went through a very long and hard process of building up that silk purse. Too bad they started with a sow's ear. ;)
Either way, they got a win and by any measure... deserve it!
That's about right. The entire drivetrain was replaced because the Volvo unit simply wasn't up to the task. I believe the tranny is built by Xtrac ($$). I don't believe there's any "Volvo" left in the tranny/differentials. Motor is (Was?) built by Cosworth - no suprises there. I'm not sure just how heavily modified the suspension/pickup points are. The At Speed team went through a very long and hard process of building up that silk purse. Too bad they started with a sow's ear. ;)
Either way, they got a win and by any measure... deserve it!
| PKer | 09-19-2006 06:21 PM |
The car sure looks cool, can you say DTM?
| Easy Rider | 09-19-2006 07:14 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;15299842]Also talking with some of the PTG guys at Road America they were saying the car is possibly the one car that is farthest from stock out there too. Althought that is just a bunch of talk from BMW guys. Also wasn't the car really holding down the back of the pack in 2005.
Marshall are you going to be at RA with Larry Webster's Miata team??
Here is some Volvo from Road America at Canada Corner last month too. Thread needs more pictures.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Volvo.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Awesome photo!
I can see some 17 year old Honda kid wanting that wing for his civic.
Marshall are you going to be at RA with Larry Webster's Miata team??
Here is some Volvo from Road America at Canada Corner last month too. Thread needs more pictures.
[IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/cooleyjb/Volvo.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Awesome photo!
I can see some 17 year old Honda kid wanting that wing for his civic.
| Rally_wgn | 09-19-2006 08:42 PM |
Its just too bad the ESX team wasnt out there, meanwhile I'll watch GOTO do its thing in Grand AM Cup.
| AdsWRX | 09-19-2006 11:31 PM |
There are 2 997 cup cars, one 996 cup car that attends every race and that turbo porsche pictured as well as a black turbo that shows up occasionally.
I was at that race and the conditions were absolutely horrible. The only way that Volvo wasnt going to win is if it broke or crashed. That said, it was an awesome performance, and a big group effort. Congrats to At Speed.
I was at that race and the conditions were absolutely horrible. The only way that Volvo wasnt going to win is if it broke or crashed. That said, it was an awesome performance, and a big group effort. Congrats to At Speed.
| enduroshark | 09-20-2006 09:16 AM |
Same exact thing the other team with chopped cars did when they won on their first World Challenge race (on their first actual race).
Whatever the "If's" or "But's", the AWD, Galati, the pileups behind, the Cadillac's electrical problems, the blown turbo not blowing earlier, rain, etc. in the end they did win and it was all within the rules, so great job by the team.
Congratulations to At Speed.
Whatever the "If's" or "But's", the AWD, Galati, the pileups behind, the Cadillac's electrical problems, the blown turbo not blowing earlier, rain, etc. in the end they did win and it was all within the rules, so great job by the team.
Congratulations to At Speed.
| AdsWRX | 09-20-2006 10:19 AM |
One clarification, there were no pileups, the entire race ran green which was a shocker. Reese, Giglioti, and Bourassa, in the porsche turbo all spun numerous times on their own. Imery in the 64 997 was tagged by Woodhouses's Viper and spun.
| solo2wrx | 09-20-2006 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;15300374]I remember that team. They are a low budget team so it's a tough comparison. He was out there with a pickup and a gooseneck trailer compared to the full race rigs of everyone else. He drove the car well but just doesn't have as much support as the big teams. I didn't realize it was a turbo.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't take big support such as the big teams to show good results. Safronas runs his car on his own dollar. That sponsor on the side is his the company he is 50% owner in. Bourassa just doesn't drive very well ever. Call it the car or the driver but it is not only because they don't have big support. James is running a 996 and is as fast if not faster on many tracks as the Groom racing boys in their 997s. Bad luck has been a contributer to him only being in 7th in the points race.
It doesn't take big support such as the big teams to show good results. Safronas runs his car on his own dollar. That sponsor on the side is his the company he is 50% owner in. Bourassa just doesn't drive very well ever. Call it the car or the driver but it is not only because they don't have big support. James is running a 996 and is as fast if not faster on many tracks as the Groom racing boys in their 997s. Bad luck has been a contributer to him only being in 7th in the points race.
| Penguinking | 09-20-2006 12:54 PM |
[QUOTE=AndyRoo;15292234]Racecars are [B]supposed [/B]to almost blow up as they cross the finish line.... :)
- andrew[/QUOTE]
isn't there a saying that goes something like "the perfect race car should be dominant throughout the race, then immediately fall apart after crossing the finish line in first"
- andrew[/QUOTE]
isn't there a saying that goes something like "the perfect race car should be dominant throughout the race, then immediately fall apart after crossing the finish line in first"
| cooleyjb | 09-20-2006 01:29 PM |
[QUOTE=solo2wrx;15313494]It doesn't take big support such as the big teams to show good results. Safronas runs his car on his own dollar. That sponsor on the side is his the company he is 50% owner in. Bourassa just doesn't drive very well ever. Call it the car or the driver but it is not only because they don't have big support. James is running a 996 and is as fast if not faster on many tracks as the Groom racing boys in their 997s. Bad luck has been a contributer to him only being in 7th in the points race.[/QUOTE]
He's also a more current car and Bourassa isn't. That is one sign of a team that has better support. Yeah he's [B]9th[/B] not 7th because of 'bad luck' but he's still behind the BIG budget teams he's also at the bottom of the people that are running a full season. He is only ahead of 3 people who have run every event. Sure he's ahead of some others who have also had 'bad luck' but in the national series the bigger budget teams seem to make some of their own luck which is helpful. Ya know, maybe if he had a bigger budget to afford the 997 and more support he'd be first in standing. He's already proven he is doing a great job with a lower budget than the big names. You have to admit that comparing a fully supported team like the Groom Cars and the Cadillacs have a better chance of things going easier at the track.
He's also a more current car and Bourassa isn't. That is one sign of a team that has better support. Yeah he's [B]9th[/B] not 7th because of 'bad luck' but he's still behind the BIG budget teams he's also at the bottom of the people that are running a full season. He is only ahead of 3 people who have run every event. Sure he's ahead of some others who have also had 'bad luck' but in the national series the bigger budget teams seem to make some of their own luck which is helpful. Ya know, maybe if he had a bigger budget to afford the 997 and more support he'd be first in standing. He's already proven he is doing a great job with a lower budget than the big names. You have to admit that comparing a fully supported team like the Groom Cars and the Cadillacs have a better chance of things going easier at the track.
| AdsWRX | 09-20-2006 02:55 PM |
The 996 should be faster at most tracks compared to the 997. The same engineer is responsible for building both the 996 and 997. The 996 on paper is faster. The car is 50lbs lighter, abs, and 30hp more. Plus the 996 comes with 4 years worth of setup and development. James is also one hell of a driver so cudos to him and his team.
| silver arrow | 09-20-2006 03:27 PM |
I love how all the bench racers try to minimize someone elses win. Congrats to Volvo and At Speed on the win.
| enduroshark | 09-20-2006 04:13 PM |
[QUOTE=AdsWRX;15315868]The 996 should be faster at most tracks compared to the 997. The same engineer is responsible for building both the 996 and 997. The 996 on paper is faster. The car is 50lbs lighter, abs, and 30hp more. Plus the 996 comes with 4 years worth of setup and development. James is also one hell of a driver so cudos to him and his team.[/QUOTE]
Soffronas drives an AWD Turbo 996. The 997's being race are RWD and normally aspirated, correct? I'm sure that the 997 get some allowances to make up for this + being the current model, Porsche would want to showcase it vs. the previous one.
Soffronas drives an AWD Turbo 996. The 997's being race are RWD and normally aspirated, correct? I'm sure that the 997 get some allowances to make up for this + being the current model, Porsche would want to showcase it vs. the previous one.
| cooleyjb | 09-20-2006 04:42 PM |
[QUOTE=enduroshark;15317138]Soffronas drives an AWD Turbo 996. The 997's being race are RWD and normally aspirated, correct? I'm sure that the 997 get some allowances to make up for this + being the current model, Porsche would want to showcase it vs. the previous one.[/QUOTE]
No Sofronas races the GT3 which is RWD. Bourassa is racing the Turbo which is AWD.
No Sofronas races the GT3 which is RWD. Bourassa is racing the Turbo which is AWD.
| shemoves | 09-20-2006 04:49 PM |
speaking of Speed GT and AWD...where is the ESX car? Have not heared much since the debut (but that just might be that I am looking in the wrong places).
| cooleyjb | 09-20-2006 05:09 PM |
[QUOTE=shemoves;15317853]speaking of Speed GT and AWD...where is the ESX car? Have not heared much since the debut (but that just might be that I am looking in the wrong places).[/QUOTE]
I remember hearing it will next show up to the finale at Laguna Seca
I remember hearing it will next show up to the finale at Laguna Seca
| shemoves | 09-20-2006 05:31 PM |
so just two races for the season? more next year? (my guess is that they are focusing on R&D)
| AdsWRX | 09-20-2006 06:45 PM |
The basic advantages for the 997 are better aerodynamics and a sequential transmission. A new designed front suspension does not hurt either, but has not been developed fully like the 996.
All GT3 cup cars are 3.6 NA RWD. Bourassa and the other black porsche are 996 turbos plucked off the street and turned into racecars. I heard a rumor that a certain current Rolex Gt champ drove Bourassa's car a little while back and the car was quick. The cars lack of competitive speed lies with the driver in WC.
All GT3 cup cars are 3.6 NA RWD. Bourassa and the other black porsche are 996 turbos plucked off the street and turned into racecars. I heard a rumor that a certain current Rolex Gt champ drove Bourassa's car a little while back and the car was quick. The cars lack of competitive speed lies with the driver in WC.
| digitalpimp | 09-20-2006 06:59 PM |
[QUOTE=CirrusWRX;15287663]
On the negative side: blahblah blah took them 3 years blah blah[/QUOTE]
maybe i'm bias cus i helped build the first of those shells (w/ my mentor), but it should considered that they are a VERY small "factory" effort DEVELOPING the car for the series. from the instant they decided to run volvos they were on a much harder road than buying a porsche or viper factory race car. thats why you see so many subaru rally cars, the parts are quite avaliable and the development is done. even when a team like mitsubishi started running their new rally car they said it would be 1-2 years before they would start to see consistant results. i'm very happy that tom and john and the rest of the team got a good result!
also the volvo is far less modified than the cadilacs (think lots of C5/6R bits)
the x-trac trannys had problems for a few events, the way i understood it they were origionally ment to be a rally transmission for some other volvo team.
On the negative side: blahblah blah took them 3 years blah blah[/QUOTE]
maybe i'm bias cus i helped build the first of those shells (w/ my mentor), but it should considered that they are a VERY small "factory" effort DEVELOPING the car for the series. from the instant they decided to run volvos they were on a much harder road than buying a porsche or viper factory race car. thats why you see so many subaru rally cars, the parts are quite avaliable and the development is done. even when a team like mitsubishi started running their new rally car they said it would be 1-2 years before they would start to see consistant results. i'm very happy that tom and john and the rest of the team got a good result!
also the volvo is far less modified than the cadilacs (think lots of C5/6R bits)
the x-trac trannys had problems for a few events, the way i understood it they were origionally ment to be a rally transmission for some other volvo team.
| Rally_wgn | 09-20-2006 08:14 PM |
Last that i read on the ESX thread the project was basically defunct because of funding and the lack thereof. I hope I'm dead wrong.
But I will be watching the guys in the GOTO legacy this Saturday at 1:00pm on speedtv. They finished 5th in the Grandam cup ST class.
But I will be watching the guys in the GOTO legacy this Saturday at 1:00pm on speedtv. They finished 5th in the Grandam cup ST class.
| enduroshark | 09-21-2006 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE=cooleyjb;15317702]No Sofronas races the GT3 which is RWD. Bourassa is racing the Turbo which is AWD.[/QUOTE]
Sorry. My mistake.
Sorry. My mistake.
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