| phantasm | 09-20-2003 12:02 AM |
2004 Gauge Cluster on 2002 WRX
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This may have been asked but I did a couple searches that came up nill.
Will the 2004 WRX Gauge cluster work on a 2002 WRX? Reason why is that I'm still wanting to get a center tach. Has anyone tried this and if so, is it bolt on or does it require some serious mods?
If this has been answered somewhere else, just point me in the right direction.
Cheers.
Will the 2004 WRX Gauge cluster work on a 2002 WRX? Reason why is that I'm still wanting to get a center tach. Has anyone tried this and if so, is it bolt on or does it require some serious mods?
If this has been answered somewhere else, just point me in the right direction.
Cheers.
| WRSport | 09-20-2003 12:39 AM |
All I have seen is putting the USDM STI cluster into the wrx.
| MK19 | 09-20-2003 08:09 AM |
Well, the guys that tried the 04 STi cluster didn't get all the bugs worked out, so maybe the stock WRX cluster will be a better fit.
| thisisbrock | 09-20-2003 05:54 PM |
id like to know myself. i have an 03 and would like to put the cluster in mine as well...the STi one is just too expensive. IMO.
:banana:
:banana:
| SilverBoosted | 09-21-2003 10:34 AM |
Being the originator of the 04 STi cluster into a 02 WRX I can tell you the "issues" are minor basically you cant dim the lights and the DCCD light stays lit... As for a 04 cluster into a 02/03 WRX the only way youll be able to do it economically is getting a used cluster due to the fact that you cant buy the complete cluster from subaru... You have to buy each part separately. Subaru doesnt make a complete unit.... The STi cluster is made by Defi for Subaru and comes as a complete unit. In the long run its cheaper to get the STi cluster for your 02/03 wRX....
| norseone | 09-21-2003 02:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SilverBoosted [/i]
[B]the "issues" are minor basically you cant dim the lights and the DCCD light stays lit... [/B][/QUOTE]
Electrical tape works wonders!:)
[B]the "issues" are minor basically you cant dim the lights and the DCCD light stays lit... [/B][/QUOTE]
Electrical tape works wonders!:)
| 128d | 09-21-2003 02:35 PM |
Lets see some pics.
| OneArmedScissor | 09-21-2003 05:03 PM |
is there any way to make the cluster match the mileage up or get the mileage documented by a reputable source so when you switch the clusters you dont commit odometer fraud?
cause i think it would be cool to do if i could make it display the same mileage as my curent car has.
cause i think it would be cool to do if i could make it display the same mileage as my curent car has.
| thisisbrock | 09-21-2003 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE]is there any way to make the cluster match the mileage up or get the mileage documented by a reputable source so when you switch the clusters you dont commit odometer fraud?[/QUOTE]
i agree, i think i will have to start looking for a junked 04 wrx in some junkyard...i dont think ill have much luck though....
i agree, i think i will have to start looking for a junked 04 wrx in some junkyard...i dont think ill have much luck though....
| phantasm | 09-22-2003 11:04 AM |
Bump for some pics on how it looks. Also, what vendor / pricing did you get for this?
Anyone have any info about the legaleese behind this?
Anyone have any info about the legaleese behind this?
| SilverBoosted | 09-22-2003 01:00 PM |
STi cluster from Ryan @ Irvine Subaru is $500+- including cluster surround..... Legally you can have a Subaru document your current mileage and new cluster...
Unfortunately there is no way of setting the new clusters mileage to match your current clusters mileage.... As for pics see my post on the Electricl forum for them (search for 04 cluster in 02 wrx)
Unfortunately there is no way of setting the new clusters mileage to match your current clusters mileage.... As for pics see my post on the Electricl forum for them (search for 04 cluster in 02 wrx)
| phantasm | 09-23-2003 10:23 AM |
For those frustrated with not being able to do 2 letter word searches, here's the link.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374322]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374322[/URL]
This still does not address the issue with using an 04 WRX gauge cluster on an 02. There seems to be some (minor) outstanding issues with using the 04 STi cluster (DCCD, Temp Sensor, Dimmer) that may result in the 04 WRX cluster being a better pnp solution.
I'm really in it for the center tach. The other things are nice but I could live without.
[URL=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374322]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374322[/URL]
This still does not address the issue with using an 04 WRX gauge cluster on an 02. There seems to be some (minor) outstanding issues with using the 04 STi cluster (DCCD, Temp Sensor, Dimmer) that may result in the 04 WRX cluster being a better pnp solution.
I'm really in it for the center tach. The other things are nice but I could live without.
| silvertoy | 09-25-2003 02:03 AM |
Thought I would resurrect this post because, I'm still wondering the same thing myself.
I really don't care about the other STi cluster features and the WRX cluster is significantly cheaper (like $200). I just want the center mounted tach which the 04 WRX DOES have. I can change the bulb condoms out (if it still has them) to get the red color I want.
I still have questions about the mileage and odometer issues, I am more worried that someone is not going to want to buy my car because I've done something that affects the mileage, even if I do have the dealer document it, what are they going to say? Are they going to believe me? Is there ANY way of reading the ACTUAL mileage from the vehicle's ECU so I can prove it to someone that that's the actual miles? Don't say take it to the dealer unless you know the dealer can do it. :rolleyes:
I really don't care about the other STi cluster features and the WRX cluster is significantly cheaper (like $200). I just want the center mounted tach which the 04 WRX DOES have. I can change the bulb condoms out (if it still has them) to get the red color I want.
I still have questions about the mileage and odometer issues, I am more worried that someone is not going to want to buy my car because I've done something that affects the mileage, even if I do have the dealer document it, what are they going to say? Are they going to believe me? Is there ANY way of reading the ACTUAL mileage from the vehicle's ECU so I can prove it to someone that that's the actual miles? Don't say take it to the dealer unless you know the dealer can do it. :rolleyes:
| DrD | 09-25-2003 07:29 AM |
So has anyone taken apart a WRX combination meter? Looking at the blow-up view for parts replacement, it looks like the speedometer/tach thing is a single unit - so theoretically, you could buy the new speedometer/tach unit and the fuel unit ($75 + $68) and swap them out for the ones in the current combination meter, rewiring things to go to the right place - I wonder if you could move the old odometer to the new unit (or, possibly even take the old WRX combination meter, split the tach/speedo unit, and reverse the two - doesn't look like it would be too awful on paper, but I can't see what goes where without looking at my manuals (which I don't have in front of me right now)
| silvertoy | 09-25-2003 11:37 AM |
I tried removing those needles once and it scared the crap out of me because they don't re-calibrate automatically (I always fear my guage is wrong). Actually I think the Odometer is to the right now instead of centered. And I'm not quite sure if the new tach is the same size as the old Speedo. I don't know how worth it, it would be to try to switch everything vs. replacing w/ the WRX cluster. Calling allsubaru today to change my order from the STI cluster (backordered) to the WRX cluster.
| phantasm | 09-25-2003 04:07 PM |
So who is going to be the guinea pig and actually give this a shot. I would if I knew I could return the parts if it didn't work out.
What are the part numbers for the 04 WRX gauge cluster? Do you have to buy the bezel like the STi version?
What are the part numbers for the 04 WRX gauge cluster? Do you have to buy the bezel like the STi version?
| Joe Newbie | 09-25-2003 05:09 PM |
Is it possible that someone like [email�protected] Subaru might know? It seems like he would be in a good position to look at see if it is at least close to p-n-p
| silvertoy | 09-25-2003 10:14 PM |
I was talking to allsubaru earlier and they said that the WRX cluster is NOT a single assembly like the STI is (with the exception of the bezel on the STi cluster) However, all the parts combined should be significantly cheaper than the STI model, now the good question is, like DrD pointed out earlier, is the 2003 (or 02) the same assembly as the 04, with the exception of the speedo and tach being switched, well, no, the odometer is on the right on the 04, which leaves me to believe that the tach on the 04 is larger than the speedo on the 03. But there's one way to find out and as soon as allsubaru get's back to me with all the parts and price, I'll be ordering.
| DrD | 09-26-2003 12:40 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by silvertoy [/i]
[B] with the exception of the speedo and tach being switched, well, no, the odometer is on the right on the 04, which leaves me to believe that the tach on the 04 is larger than the speedo on the 03.[/B][/QUOTE]
Looked at my 02, and the center gauge (the speedo) is a little bit bigger than the tach, so splitting and swapping probably wouldn't work - I wonder if you could buy the speedo/tach unit from an 04 and install it - the lcd panel on the right rather than the left might not be a big deal if it's just a dumb panel, and takes info from the stuff back in the guts of the cluster (which it might - that part costs $270, so I am betting the majority of the electronics are back there) - would be much cheaper to just buy the display parts (just the speedo/tach if you didn't mind mixing and matching needle colors would only cost $76 or so! [URL=http://www.subaruparts.com/diag/?model=5A&year=2002&style=WRX&body=wagon&scn=8&category=850-1]here[/URL] is a blow up of the 02/03 cluster for comparison.
[B] with the exception of the speedo and tach being switched, well, no, the odometer is on the right on the 04, which leaves me to believe that the tach on the 04 is larger than the speedo on the 03.[/B][/QUOTE]
Looked at my 02, and the center gauge (the speedo) is a little bit bigger than the tach, so splitting and swapping probably wouldn't work - I wonder if you could buy the speedo/tach unit from an 04 and install it - the lcd panel on the right rather than the left might not be a big deal if it's just a dumb panel, and takes info from the stuff back in the guts of the cluster (which it might - that part costs $270, so I am betting the majority of the electronics are back there) - would be much cheaper to just buy the display parts (just the speedo/tach if you didn't mind mixing and matching needle colors would only cost $76 or so! [URL=http://www.subaruparts.com/diag/?model=5A&year=2002&style=WRX&body=wagon&scn=8&category=850-1]here[/URL] is a blow up of the 02/03 cluster for comparison.
| silvertoy | 09-26-2003 10:59 AM |
Good Stuff DrD, it's too bad they don't have a blow up for the 04 parts on that same site. Grrr. That would solve our problems.
| DrD | 09-26-2003 04:12 PM |
We need someone whom has downloaded the service manuals for the '04 from [url]techinfo.subaru.com[/url]
| Bookmanx | 09-26-2003 04:27 PM |
Be aware that even IF you have a documented Dealership signed statement that you have changed the odometer, you will still be selling a "True Mileage Unknown" car when you sell/trade in.
Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, a changed odometer (even one changed under warranty) was just asking for a couple thousand dollar hit when trade in time came.
Not saying it will happen, just saying be careful.
Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, a changed odometer (even one changed under warranty) was just asking for a couple thousand dollar hit when trade in time came.
Not saying it will happen, just saying be careful.
| silvertoy | 09-26-2003 05:54 PM |
Good point, which is exactly why I was trying to find out if there was a way to print out the total mileage of the vehicle. AKA, I was trying to see if there was a place that mileage is stored on board the ECU somewhere, but so far it doesn't appear there is any such place... Which goes two ways, someone could royally screw you on a used car (which I guess is a risk every used car buyer takes) or you could screw someone (which is really a moral delemna up to you to withhold).
| alachua | 09-26-2003 07:46 PM |
I have been thinking about this since I first read about the STi cluster swap.
Assuming that the gauge cluster works on electronic singal, would it not be possible to hook it up to an electrical source and feed it a signal until the numbers in the mileage area matched? I have no idea how the cluster works, so this may not be possible, but there really should be a way to replicate the signal that the cluster expects. This, along with a notarised letter from your dealer would be pretty much the best option when it came to resale value.
Assuming that the gauge cluster works on electronic singal, would it not be possible to hook it up to an electrical source and feed it a signal until the numbers in the mileage area matched? I have no idea how the cluster works, so this may not be possible, but there really should be a way to replicate the signal that the cluster expects. This, along with a notarised letter from your dealer would be pretty much the best option when it came to resale value.
| DrD | 09-26-2003 09:23 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by silvertoy [/i]
[B]Good point, which is exactly why I was trying to find out if there was a way to print out the total mileage of the vehicle. [/B][/QUOTE]
See - this is why I was wondering if you could just swap out the speedo/tach assembly in your existing gauge cluster - the odometer information should be stored in the electronics within the cluster (the part which costs $270) - I think the lcd panel is just a dumb panel - it displays what the 'puter inside the cluster tells it to. If that is indeed the case, swapping (though it will involve some creative wiring, I am sure) would not alter your odometer reading - this there would be no issues - plus you could keep the old part, and swap it back in when you sold the car for the stock look - your odometer reading would be unaltered.
[B]Good point, which is exactly why I was trying to find out if there was a way to print out the total mileage of the vehicle. [/B][/QUOTE]
See - this is why I was wondering if you could just swap out the speedo/tach assembly in your existing gauge cluster - the odometer information should be stored in the electronics within the cluster (the part which costs $270) - I think the lcd panel is just a dumb panel - it displays what the 'puter inside the cluster tells it to. If that is indeed the case, swapping (though it will involve some creative wiring, I am sure) would not alter your odometer reading - this there would be no issues - plus you could keep the old part, and swap it back in when you sold the car for the stock look - your odometer reading would be unaltered.
| silvertoy | 09-27-2003 12:57 AM |
From at least a visual standpoint looking at pictures of 2003/2002 vs 2004, they don't appear to be the same size. But again, Like I said, we're just going to have to measure it. Allsubaru didn't get back to me on switching my order to the WRX cluster instead of the STi yet, but I'm thinking that it will come in pieces, at which time, i'll take the opportunity to see if the old speed and new tach (and vice versa) are the same diameter and connection. And also I'll see how they are connected, if it's pins that plug right into the circuit board, then I don't see there being much chance for modification, if it's a plug that just needs to be swapped, yippee. I am not sure how long it will be before I can get parts so if anyone has a faster way of determining the answer to our questions (such as diagrams) then please, by all means.
| silvertoy | 09-27-2003 01:04 AM |
I spoke too soon. Allsubaru did get back to me. The cost for all of the parts for the WRX cluster is almost the same as the cost for the STI cluster. Sigh, But the cost of the two parts mentioned above would be less than $200, maybe less than $100 It did confuse me because it lists speedo tach and fuel tach as two different parts, which leads me to believe that the two parts are necessary to make a full front,
1 - speedo tach - 85030fe340 -
1 - fuel tach - 85064fe260 -
but bear in mind that the two combined is less than $200 and individually less than $100. I think I might still go with the STi for now because I'm not really in the mood to put all the pieces together myself and pay the same amount.
1 - speedo tach - 85030fe340 -
1 - fuel tach - 85064fe260 -
but bear in mind that the two combined is less than $200 and individually less than $100. I think I might still go with the STi for now because I'm not really in the mood to put all the pieces together myself and pay the same amount.
| phantasm | 10-02-2003 12:57 PM |
So I guess the answer is, "Just use the STi gauge cluster." ??
Oh well.... :rolleyes:
Oh well.... :rolleyes:
| silvertoy | 10-02-2003 04:46 PM |
The info from Allsubaru, these are the parts necessary to make the 2004 WRX cluster..
[QUOTE]
you'd need:
1 - plate assy - 85083fe090 - 281.50
1 - back cover - 85058fe000 - 7.25
1 - case, inner - 85067fe090 - 15.00
1 - speedo tach - 85030fe340 - 79.50
1 - fuel tach - 85064fe260 - 71.75
1 - bezel/trim - 85070fe100 - 50.70
total of $505.70 + shipping
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
you'd need:
1 - plate assy - 85083fe090 - 281.50
1 - back cover - 85058fe000 - 7.25
1 - case, inner - 85067fe090 - 15.00
1 - speedo tach - 85030fe340 - 79.50
1 - fuel tach - 85064fe260 - 71.75
1 - bezel/trim - 85070fe100 - 50.70
total of $505.70 + shipping
[/QUOTE]
| 128d | 10-05-2003 11:44 AM |
Does the temp readout work?
| phantasm | 10-07-2003 10:58 AM |
I don't get why the 04 WRX cluster is as much as the STi cluster, but whatever.
I'm still debating whether to do nothing or go with the STi gauge cluster. The 04 WRX would have been ideal if I knew it was plug and play and was a reasonable cost.
I'm still debating whether to do nothing or go with the STi gauge cluster. The 04 WRX would have been ideal if I knew it was plug and play and was a reasonable cost.
| silvertoy | 10-07-2003 01:07 PM |
The main advantage of the WRX cluster would be to not have to fiddle around with the wiring of your car. If you can put a price of $5.70 on that ($500 even for the sti cluster) then you be the judge of if it's reasonable.
| aspera | 10-20-2003 05:36 AM |
Surely some of the MY04 WRX owners will try to upgrade to the STi cluster. Maybe you can pick up their cluster for a good price.
| thisisbrock | 10-20-2003 03:03 PM |
id be interested in buying an 04 cluster......anyone wanna sell??
| OneArmedScissor | 10-20-2003 03:22 PM |
nobody has answered my deal about odometer fraud.
im pretty sure this is REALLY illegal :-/
im pretty sure this is REALLY illegal :-/
| SilverBoosted | 10-20-2003 04:08 PM |
Millin if your really worried about legality dont do it... Its up to the individual doing the swap to document the true mileage of the car... Nothing anyone can do if someone decides to be shady.....sorry
| OneArmedScissor | 10-20-2003 09:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SilverBoosted [/i]
[B]Millin if your really worried about legality dont do it... Its up to the individual doing the swap to document the true mileage of the car... Nothing anyone can do if someone decides to be shady.....sorry [/B][/QUOTE]
hmm...so how does one document it? can i go to my dealership and be like "HEY! ADD THIS TO THE TITLE OF THE CAR!"
seriously im curious. maybe i nca make the 2004 cluster match mine?
im only asking really because i REALLY want to do this swap i think it would be awesome, but I don't want to do it for moral issues.
anyone?
[B]Millin if your really worried about legality dont do it... Its up to the individual doing the swap to document the true mileage of the car... Nothing anyone can do if someone decides to be shady.....sorry [/B][/QUOTE]
hmm...so how does one document it? can i go to my dealership and be like "HEY! ADD THIS TO THE TITLE OF THE CAR!"
seriously im curious. maybe i nca make the 2004 cluster match mine?
im only asking really because i REALLY want to do this swap i think it would be awesome, but I don't want to do it for moral issues.
anyone?
| DrD | 10-21-2003 07:25 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Milin [/i]
[B]nobody has answered my deal about odometer fraud.
im pretty sure this is REALLY illegal :-/ [/B][/QUOTE]
It only becomes fraud if you try to sell the car without indicating that the mileage on the odometer is not the actual mileage - otherwise it's not a problem. (it's pretty much the same situation you are in if the odometer breaks - we had an old Jetta where the odometer failed, and sold it without any trouble - you just make sure you indicate that the mileage on the car is not what is indicated by the odometer, and you are all set - there was a place on the back of the title to do that when you sign it over. Also, when I traded my old car in for my WRX, I had to fill out a form which indicated if the mileage was correct or not.)
[B]nobody has answered my deal about odometer fraud.
im pretty sure this is REALLY illegal :-/ [/B][/QUOTE]
It only becomes fraud if you try to sell the car without indicating that the mileage on the odometer is not the actual mileage - otherwise it's not a problem. (it's pretty much the same situation you are in if the odometer breaks - we had an old Jetta where the odometer failed, and sold it without any trouble - you just make sure you indicate that the mileage on the car is not what is indicated by the odometer, and you are all set - there was a place on the back of the title to do that when you sign it over. Also, when I traded my old car in for my WRX, I had to fill out a form which indicated if the mileage was correct or not.)
| Kha0S | 10-21-2003 02:04 PM |
I wouldn't be too hard to make a circuit to do the 5V pulses to the cluster to rise the mileage to the appropriate point...
/Andrew
/Andrew
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