| Fred | 01-05-2005 11:33 AM |
2004 vs 2005 STi - practical race advantages
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Someone who has driven both on track, at autoxes, or at rallyxes with similar setups on both years (preferably "stockish"...
What is the actual, practical advantage of the 05 over the 04? Under what conditions, & how, are they different?
All I know is front diff changed, potential for bigger tires on the 05, better steering rack mounts on 05, and bigger wheels stock on 05. I also know that both of them are fast as Hell even with novice drivers. :lol:
I've seen some national-trophy-level competitors go head-to-head at local events with varying modifications & different year & be within a few tenths, but not sure how much of that was the driver.
I've only driven 05 STi's, never driven an 04 - maybe I should? (anybody got one you wanna lend me? :devil: ) Anyway, it would be nice to hear it from some people with lots of experience...
Thanks
What is the actual, practical advantage of the 05 over the 04? Under what conditions, & how, are they different?
All I know is front diff changed, potential for bigger tires on the 05, better steering rack mounts on 05, and bigger wheels stock on 05. I also know that both of them are fast as Hell even with novice drivers. :lol:
I've seen some national-trophy-level competitors go head-to-head at local events with varying modifications & different year & be within a few tenths, but not sure how much of that was the driver.
I've only driven 05 STi's, never driven an 04 - maybe I should? (anybody got one you wanna lend me? :devil: ) Anyway, it would be nice to hear it from some people with lots of experience...
Thanks
| trhoppe | 01-05-2005 12:24 PM |
For street/daily driving it doesn't matter IMHO.
For track use/autox, get the 05.
The 05 is betterer. The front diff makes a slight difference, you feel like it pulls you to the inside more. The steering feels a lot better, I'm sure steering rack bushings on an 04 can fix that. Also, the rear links can be fixed on the 04.
Biggest difference in the 05 is the yaw sensor. The car isn't nearly as loose as the 04 was. Its controllable. Remember when I took you out for a fun run in the 04 around our neighborhood? The 05 would have stuck through that turn unlike the 04 back end stepping out. Worth a tenth per turn.
-Tom
For track use/autox, get the 05.
The 05 is betterer. The front diff makes a slight difference, you feel like it pulls you to the inside more. The steering feels a lot better, I'm sure steering rack bushings on an 04 can fix that. Also, the rear links can be fixed on the 04.
Biggest difference in the 05 is the yaw sensor. The car isn't nearly as loose as the 04 was. Its controllable. Remember when I took you out for a fun run in the 04 around our neighborhood? The 05 would have stuck through that turn unlike the 04 back end stepping out. Worth a tenth per turn.
-Tom
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 12:32 PM |
I was just wondering, the yaw sensor only has an effect when the dccd is in auto mode right?
| trhoppe | 01-05-2005 12:33 PM |
Hmmm, that would make sense.
I haven't used anything other then auto mode, as even in the 04, we were fastest with it on auto.
-Tom
I haven't used anything other then auto mode, as even in the 04, we were fastest with it on auto.
-Tom
| MNbiker | 01-05-2005 01:42 PM |
Hey Tom,
You have an '05 in hand yet, or are you still waiting?
-Steve
p.s. It's freakin' COLD up here - I may have to throw the Miater on the trailer & come down for a visit! ;)
You have an '05 in hand yet, or are you still waiting?
-Steve
p.s. It's freakin' COLD up here - I may have to throw the Miater on the trailer & come down for a visit! ;)
| trhoppe | 01-05-2005 02:11 PM |
Miranda has an 05 :) Right now she's in the caribbean so I stole it for the week :devil:
Come down and visit anytime! Its a frigid 68 degrees outside right now. Brrrrrrr.
-Tom
Come down and visit anytime! Its a frigid 68 degrees outside right now. Brrrrrrr.
-Tom
| ToddStratton | 01-05-2005 03:41 PM |
The one feature from an 05 I wish I had on my 04 was the larger hubs. I haven't had a problem with pad knockback, but some have. The stronger bearings and hub design should be an improvement.
I haven't driven an 05 (Imprezas are fairly scare here) yet, but I've got about 700 track miles on my car in the last 7 months.
As far as DCCD goes, I think in the service manual it explains what inputs the DCCD uses in auto versus manual mode.
TRS
I haven't driven an 05 (Imprezas are fairly scare here) yet, but I've got about 700 track miles on my car in the last 7 months.
As far as DCCD goes, I think in the service manual it explains what inputs the DCCD uses in auto versus manual mode.
TRS
| Fred | 01-05-2005 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE]The 05 would have stuck through that turn unlike the 04 back end stepping out.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how you know this? :lol:
[QUOTE]The front diff makes a slight difference, you feel like it pulls you to the inside more.[/QUOTE]
When I drove dowroa's STi at the autox, I was really amazed by how well the front end turned on tighter stuff & kept turning. I guess this is what you're talking about.
Anybody rallycrossed with both years?
I wonder how you know this? :lol:
[QUOTE]The front diff makes a slight difference, you feel like it pulls you to the inside more.[/QUOTE]
When I drove dowroa's STi at the autox, I was really amazed by how well the front end turned on tighter stuff & kept turning. I guess this is what you're talking about.
Anybody rallycrossed with both years?
| RyanC | 01-05-2005 04:13 PM |
Fred, the front swaybar is also bigger on the 05, 20mm versus 19mm. I haven't driven an 04 but having had my 05 on the track, I never noticed it understeering. It just pulls you around the turns if you get on the gas a little early.
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 04:16 PM |
My 04 had a 20mm front swaybar, they did a few different runs with different sizes apparantly.
| ToddStratton | 01-05-2005 05:26 PM |
My 04 has a 20mm front ARB as well.
TRS
TRS
| DrBiggly | 01-05-2005 06:01 PM |
The V7 STis came with 19mm front sways. I believe all of the USDM STis have come with 20mm front sways. :)
| supermarkus | 01-05-2005 06:07 PM |
When I first got my car, I brought it to a shop that specializes in Subarus to let them go over it. They had never had an '05 up on the rack so when they measured the sway bars they were surprised that my car had a 20mm FSB, they claimed all the '4 STis they've seen had 19mm bars. Now I'm :confused:
| Scooby South | 01-05-2005 07:24 PM |
Tom right behind ya...:)....Exhaust is on....450 miles on the clock....Boost's should be here tomorrow....still pondering those Corsa's...Pully's are on....KB makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE...Suspension is still secret...but at $885 a corner and DA with a REMOTE resevoir. ......it won't take long to figure out what I have done....;)...And they are NOT KONI's....OH...for those that didn't know....I no longer own the RS....and now have a ESP challenger..;)...right Tom...;)
Bill
Bill
| mx_9 | 01-05-2005 07:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]Someone who has driven both on track, at autoxes, or at rallyxes with similar setups on both years (preferably "stockish"...
What is the actual, practical advantage of the 05 over the 04? Under what conditions, & how, are they different?
All I know is front diff changed, potential for bigger tires on the 05, better steering rack mounts on 05, and bigger wheels stock on 05. I also know that both of them are fast as Hell even with novice drivers. :lol:
I've seen some national-trophy-level competitors go head-to-head at local events with varying modifications & different year & be within a few tenths, but not sure how much of that was the driver.
I've only driven 05 STi's, never driven an 04 - maybe I should? (anybody got one you wanna lend me? :devil: ) Anyway, it would be nice to hear it from some people with lots of experience...
Thanks[/QUOTE]
You're welcome to take my 04 for a spin if you can make it to RTP during lunch. The only caveat is that I have winter tires on now. I can be persuaded to put the 070's back on since they're on the bbs rims sitting in my garage.
What is the actual, practical advantage of the 05 over the 04? Under what conditions, & how, are they different?
All I know is front diff changed, potential for bigger tires on the 05, better steering rack mounts on 05, and bigger wheels stock on 05. I also know that both of them are fast as Hell even with novice drivers. :lol:
I've seen some national-trophy-level competitors go head-to-head at local events with varying modifications & different year & be within a few tenths, but not sure how much of that was the driver.
I've only driven 05 STi's, never driven an 04 - maybe I should? (anybody got one you wanna lend me? :devil: ) Anyway, it would be nice to hear it from some people with lots of experience...
Thanks[/QUOTE]
You're welcome to take my 04 for a spin if you can make it to RTP during lunch. The only caveat is that I have winter tires on now. I can be persuaded to put the 070's back on since they're on the bbs rims sitting in my garage.
| ANZAC_1915 | 01-05-2005 10:04 PM |
[QUOTE=supermarkus]When I first got my car, I brought it to a shop that specializes in Subarus to let them go over it. They had never had an '05 up on the rack so when they measured the sway bars they were surprised that my car had a 20mm FSB, they claimed all the '4 STis they've seen had 19mm bars. Now I'm :confused:[/QUOTE]
Negative, they all have 20mm. The SPT/STi GDA suspension kit has a 19mm, straight off the V7. I believe the V8 changed to 20mm about the time we got the 04 STi.
Also don't forget the 05 struts are different (if you're sticking with stock struts).
I agree on the yaw sensor, the lack of one is an obvious shortcoming with auto mode in the 04, especially at low speeds.
Glenn
Negative, they all have 20mm. The SPT/STi GDA suspension kit has a 19mm, straight off the V7. I believe the V8 changed to 20mm about the time we got the 04 STi.
Also don't forget the 05 struts are different (if you're sticking with stock struts).
I agree on the yaw sensor, the lack of one is an obvious shortcoming with auto mode in the 04, especially at low speeds.
Glenn
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 10:08 PM |
Anyone ever figure out how much is involved in putting an 05 yaw sensor on an 04?
| SupersayianNeo | 01-05-2005 10:17 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Anyone ever figure out how much is involved in putting an 05 yaw sensor on an 04?[/QUOTE]
yea...what he said..
yea...what he said..
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 10:32 PM |
No one has pointed out that the '05 has increased caster. Compare a '04 and '05 ... see how the front wheel/tire is no longer centered in the fender ... but is now moved forward. Another reason why the '05 turns in better and sticks ... car is maintaining it's negative camber better ...
| Jon Bogert | 01-05-2005 10:33 PM |
Middle month '04s had 19/19 swaybars. I'll take a photo of mine with a caliper if anyone doubts.
| afpdl | 01-05-2005 10:44 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]No one has pointed out that the '05 has increased caster. Compare a '04 and '05 ... see how the front wheel/tire is no longer centered in the fender ... but is now moved forward. Another reason why the '05 turns in better and sticks ... car is maintaining it's negative camber better ...[/QUOTE]
What is the 05s caster? Ive heard this but I havent seen any numbers or reasons as to where it comes from. The 04s have the extended wheelbase as well.
What is the 05s caster? Ive heard this but I havent seen any numbers or reasons as to where it comes from. The 04s have the extended wheelbase as well.
| makofoto | 01-05-2005 11:15 PM |
I've heard +5 ... I'll ask the fellow who found that info. That is the question ... how did they achieve the added wheelbase. Probably lower control arm ...
I don't think the '04 has the same caster ... checking ...
I don't think the '04 has the same caster ... checking ...
| ANZAC_1915 | 01-05-2005 11:26 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]I've heard +5 ... I'll ask the fellow who found that info. That is the question ... how did they achieve the added wheelbase. Probably lower control arm ...
I don't think the '04 has the same caster ... checking ...[/QUOTE]
For the 100th time, the 04 and 05 STi's are the same caster and wheelbase.
As far as a yaw sensor retrofit, I'm not sure but have been meaning to check it out. Best case is new TCU ($300-400 ish I think) and the sensor. Not sure about the wiring differences.
Glenn
I don't think the '04 has the same caster ... checking ...[/QUOTE]
For the 100th time, the 04 and 05 STi's are the same caster and wheelbase.
As far as a yaw sensor retrofit, I'm not sure but have been meaning to check it out. Best case is new TCU ($300-400 ish I think) and the sensor. Not sure about the wiring differences.
Glenn
| STiTuner | 01-06-2005 12:09 AM |
koni doesn't make an remote res setup... well they do but its not in their parts book and it costs a lot more than 885 a side.
for that price range.. hmmm.... are they green or black?
Brad
for that price range.. hmmm.... are they green or black?
Brad
| makofoto | 01-06-2005 12:41 AM |
Glenn ... Of Course you are correct ... the info that I got came from an (ex :-) friend of mine ... who read it in this [URL=http://www.motorcities.com/contents/04IEL403022339.html]ARTICLE[/URL]
... unfortunately they're taking about the '05 UK STI.
But it's interesting ... perhaps it's a preview of what the U.S. STI will get in the future. Extra +1.5 Caster, longer wheel base, wider track ...
Yes, the '04 and '05 STI have the same wheel base and +4.5 caster (as compared to +3.35 on the WRX).
... unfortunately they're taking about the '05 UK STI.
But it's interesting ... perhaps it's a preview of what the U.S. STI will get in the future. Extra +1.5 Caster, longer wheel base, wider track ...
Yes, the '04 and '05 STI have the same wheel base and +4.5 caster (as compared to +3.35 on the WRX).
| afpdl | 01-06-2005 12:50 AM |
Im pretty sure the 05 US sti has the exact same suspension geometry as the 05 uk STi. The UK just got the new geometry this year while the US has always had the same wheelbase as the spec c and got the new wider rear track with the 05 sti.
I cant find any impreza running a 2550mm wheelbase. The standard impreza is 2530mm the ones with the revised geometry with the extra 10mm are 2540. I dont see why the UK would get somthing that the spec c doesnt even have.
I cant find any impreza running a 2550mm wheelbase. The standard impreza is 2530mm the ones with the revised geometry with the extra 10mm are 2540. I dont see why the UK would get somthing that the spec c doesnt even have.
| DrBiggly | 01-06-2005 01:09 AM |
Bill,
You sold your RS! :eek: Holy crap man!
You sold your RS! :eek: Holy crap man!
| RallyMan555 | 01-06-2005 01:22 AM |
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Here are some differences between �04 and �05 STi:[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Tread (distance between rear wheels) is 1485mm (�04) and 1495mm (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Steering Turns, lock to lock is 2.7 (�04) and 2.6 (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Min. turning circle, curb to curb 10.8m (�04) and 11.4m (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rim size 17 x 71/2JJ (�04) and 17 x 8JJ (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Engine oil total capacity 4.5l (�04) and 5.0l (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Camber -1�40' (�04) and -0�40' (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Wheel arch height 366mm (�04) and 363mm (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Tread (distance between rear wheels) is 1485mm (�04) and 1495mm (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Steering Turns, lock to lock is 2.7 (�04) and 2.6 (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Min. turning circle, curb to curb 10.8m (�04) and 11.4m (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rim size 17 x 71/2JJ (�04) and 17 x 8JJ (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Engine oil total capacity 4.5l (�04) and 5.0l (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Camber -1�40' (�04) and -0�40' (�05)[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Rear Wheel arch height 366mm (�04) and 363mm (�05)[/size][/font]
| jmolaver | 01-06-2005 02:41 AM |
[QUOTE=RallyMan555][font=Times New Roman][size=3]Here are some differences between �04 and �05 STi:[/size][/font]
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Engine oil total capacity 4.5l (�04) and 5.0l (�05)[/size][/font]
[/QUOTE]
:confused: Hmmm.. 5 litres? I'm pretty sure my '05 took 4.7qts.. maybe you mean imperial litres (i know they're different from american litres but I have no idea by how much).... Interesting post though -- I went into my purchase basically blind, I had no idea there were so many differences between the '04 and '05...
very happy with my '05, and would bet that most people (myself included) would benefit more from track time then any slight changes in the car year-to-year... just my $.02
[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Engine oil total capacity 4.5l (�04) and 5.0l (�05)[/size][/font]
[/QUOTE]
:confused: Hmmm.. 5 litres? I'm pretty sure my '05 took 4.7qts.. maybe you mean imperial litres (i know they're different from american litres but I have no idea by how much).... Interesting post though -- I went into my purchase basically blind, I had no idea there were so many differences between the '04 and '05...
very happy with my '05, and would bet that most people (myself included) would benefit more from track time then any slight changes in the car year-to-year... just my $.02
| wrx2.0 555 | 01-06-2005 06:31 AM |
[QUOTE=Scooby South]Tom right behind ya...:)....Exhaust is on....450 miles on the clock....Boost's should be here tomorrow....still pondering those Corsa's...Pully's are on....KB makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE...Suspension is still secret...but at $885 a corner and DA with a REMOTE resevoir. ......it won't take long to figure out what I have done....;)...And they are NOT KONI's....OH...for those that didn't know....I no longer own the RS....and now have a ESP challenger..;)...right Tom...;)
Bill[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hijack, but heres my guess............ :devil:
[IMG]http://www.racecompengineering.com/moton_club_01.jpg[/IMG]
Moton Clubsport Coilovers
� 7 Position Dampening
� Separate Rebound and Compression adjustability
� Stainless Steel Body
� Proven Motorsport Heritage
� Remote Reservoir
RCE-MOTON-CLUBSPORT Moton Clubsport Coilovers $3599
Bill[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hijack, but heres my guess............ :devil:
[IMG]http://www.racecompengineering.com/moton_club_01.jpg[/IMG]
Moton Clubsport Coilovers
� 7 Position Dampening
� Separate Rebound and Compression adjustability
� Stainless Steel Body
� Proven Motorsport Heritage
� Remote Reservoir
RCE-MOTON-CLUBSPORT Moton Clubsport Coilovers $3599
| Fred | 01-06-2005 08:44 AM |
So do you technical specification nerds have any PRACTICAL/ RACE CONDITIONS COMPARISON information to add, or are you all going to keep cluttering up my thread with speculation about what PARTS may or may not be different between the years? :lol:
:p
And to Bill - what the Hell??? :huh:
:p
And to Bill - what the Hell??? :huh:
| Scooby South | 01-06-2005 09:57 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred]And to Bill - what the Hell??? :huh:[/QUOTE]
RS is no Mas...I sold it...Long story Short...someone ask what I would take for my car..I threw out a figure....they accepted :eek: I was happy...They were happy....and I bought a New 05 STi...;)...I figure it is Equal to where the RS was and it has alot more room for improvement...Whereas the RS was pretty maxed out...Besides that...I want to run against Tom..to see Where I really sit...It was so hard to tell in the RS...Was it car??? driver???? setup???? I really didn't have much of gauge...and besides...I drove Kiko's 04 and it was the shizzle...With the improvements made in the 05 (IMO) its going to resopond better than an 04 to mods...ie: suspension and yaw control...the aluminum rear section makes the rear end not as twitchy therefore making giant strides in throttle off oversteer...more predictable and more settled...
Good to see ya ....I hear you looking at the STi also....DO IT...you won't regret it...
Bill
RS is no Mas...I sold it...Long story Short...someone ask what I would take for my car..I threw out a figure....they accepted :eek: I was happy...They were happy....and I bought a New 05 STi...;)...I figure it is Equal to where the RS was and it has alot more room for improvement...Whereas the RS was pretty maxed out...Besides that...I want to run against Tom..to see Where I really sit...It was so hard to tell in the RS...Was it car??? driver???? setup???? I really didn't have much of gauge...and besides...I drove Kiko's 04 and it was the shizzle...With the improvements made in the 05 (IMO) its going to resopond better than an 04 to mods...ie: suspension and yaw control...the aluminum rear section makes the rear end not as twitchy therefore making giant strides in throttle off oversteer...more predictable and more settled...
Good to see ya ....I hear you looking at the STi also....DO IT...you won't regret it...
Bill
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