| Acejam2k | 01-11-2004 07:19 PM |
AWD Drifting
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I got a 2000 legacy gt limited 5 spd.....
I just wanna mess around of course under a closed course: how do you drift in a AWD car? Im sorta thinkin that my car doesn't got enough power, but w/e (165 stock, but i got an intake that brings it up to 175-180)
I just wanna mess around of course under a closed course: how do you drift in a AWD car? Im sorta thinkin that my car doesn't got enough power, but w/e (165 stock, but i got an intake that brings it up to 175-180)
| Davenow | 01-11-2004 07:32 PM |
FYI there bud, NO intake is going to give you 10-15 HP.
3-7 MAYBE
ANd sadly, no, nowhere near enough power. Add about 300 to your 180 figure and you are getting closer. You have AWD, if you want to drift, you want rwd. 240SX's are relatively cheap
PS, slap Zac in the nuts for not setting you straight on the intake:p
3-7 MAYBE
ANd sadly, no, nowhere near enough power. Add about 300 to your 180 figure and you are getting closer. You have AWD, if you want to drift, you want rwd. 240SX's are relatively cheap
PS, slap Zac in the nuts for not setting you straight on the intake:p
| Kuro | 01-11-2004 08:14 PM |
Pendulum swing that sucker...
| Mad Scientist | 01-11-2004 08:27 PM |
you don't nee mad amounts of power to drift a car...just driving skills
2 things to try
Scandinavian flick - for a right turn....go into it at about 30 mph (for practice) in second or third...before you get to the corner flick the wheel left then immidiatly right staying on the gas, even accelerating if needed...the rear end should step out...turn onto the slide and stay on the gas....the car should go into a nice drift
clutch lift - going into a corner staying on the gas (not accelerating) ...quickly stab the clutch and release it...the jolt from the jump in RPMs should induce oversteer.....play with the throttle to carry the drift
these will both take some practice....but both work...
I did them in a friends forester a few weeks ago....
2 things to try
Scandinavian flick - for a right turn....go into it at about 30 mph (for practice) in second or third...before you get to the corner flick the wheel left then immidiatly right staying on the gas, even accelerating if needed...the rear end should step out...turn onto the slide and stay on the gas....the car should go into a nice drift
clutch lift - going into a corner staying on the gas (not accelerating) ...quickly stab the clutch and release it...the jolt from the jump in RPMs should induce oversteer.....play with the throttle to carry the drift
these will both take some practice....but both work...
I did them in a friends forester a few weeks ago....
| Davenow | 01-11-2004 08:33 PM |
IBTOTALLEDCARFROMTEENAGERTRYINGMOVESWAYOVERHISHEAD
(see also: Zac's car)
(see also: Zac's car)
| V6TurboTA | 01-11-2004 08:40 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]IBTOTALLEDCARFROMTEENAGERTRYINGMOVESWAYOVERHISHEAD
(see also: Zac's car) [/B][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/23/13/f9_0.JPG[/IMG] ?
~v6
[B]IBTOTALLEDCARFROMTEENAGERTRYINGMOVESWAYOVERHISHEAD
(see also: Zac's car) [/B][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/23/13/f9_0.JPG[/IMG] ?
~v6
| Acejam2k | 01-11-2004 08:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Davenow [/i]
[B]IBTOTALLEDCARFROMTEENAGERTRYINGMOVESWAYOVERHISHEAD
(see also: Zac's car) [/B][/QUOTE]
Im not stupid enough to try something like this on the street, only in a VERY empty parking lot...
[B]IBTOTALLEDCARFROMTEENAGERTRYINGMOVESWAYOVERHISHEAD
(see also: Zac's car) [/B][/QUOTE]
Im not stupid enough to try something like this on the street, only in a VERY empty parking lot...
| Davenow | 01-11-2004 09:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Acejam2k [/i]
[B]Im not stupid enough to try something like this on the street, only in a VERY empty parking lot... [/B][/QUOTE]
Beware of cops/security.
Also be aware that drifting on dry pavement take high commitment. You dont have the power to drift with, so you will have to use momentum. It better be VERY VERY empty, as in enough room for your car to do 2 complete spins before coming anywhere near hitting anything.
Also beware that although its tough to roll a car on street tires, its still very possible.
I am not endorsing you doing this, but you should be aware of the very possible consequences. What kind of tires are you running? What size? What air pressure? If its not low enough profile, normal street tire pressures can allow the tire to peel off the bead, and BAM on your roof you go.
What Mark described is the way to do it, but bear in mind that there is SO MUCH more to actually doing it that what can be described here. He did it in his friends forester, but he has a lot of driving experience, you dont.
The cars you see drifting in videos are WORLDS apart from what you and I drive. These are REAR wheel drive cars, with insane spring rates (think in the 800+lb range) and MUCHO HP(500-700whp) ANd VERY experienced drivers. You arent DrifterX, your car is NOTHING like what you see in the internet videos and WRC coverage. The sooner you come to grips with that the better off you will be.
Not flamin ya, just putting it out there.
:)
[B]Im not stupid enough to try something like this on the street, only in a VERY empty parking lot... [/B][/QUOTE]
Beware of cops/security.
Also be aware that drifting on dry pavement take high commitment. You dont have the power to drift with, so you will have to use momentum. It better be VERY VERY empty, as in enough room for your car to do 2 complete spins before coming anywhere near hitting anything.
Also beware that although its tough to roll a car on street tires, its still very possible.
I am not endorsing you doing this, but you should be aware of the very possible consequences. What kind of tires are you running? What size? What air pressure? If its not low enough profile, normal street tire pressures can allow the tire to peel off the bead, and BAM on your roof you go.
What Mark described is the way to do it, but bear in mind that there is SO MUCH more to actually doing it that what can be described here. He did it in his friends forester, but he has a lot of driving experience, you dont.
The cars you see drifting in videos are WORLDS apart from what you and I drive. These are REAR wheel drive cars, with insane spring rates (think in the 800+lb range) and MUCHO HP(500-700whp) ANd VERY experienced drivers. You arent DrifterX, your car is NOTHING like what you see in the internet videos and WRC coverage. The sooner you come to grips with that the better off you will be.
Not flamin ya, just putting it out there.
:)
| 1stgearsyncro | 01-11-2004 09:41 PM |
"PS, slap Zac in the nuts for not setting you straight on the intake"
I did, I told him a $30 intake off ebay isn't gonna do ****, yet no one listens too me :rolleyes:
Dave - for someone with one nut ur really being a big dick ;) stop busting my balls!
-Zac
I did, I told him a $30 intake off ebay isn't gonna do ****, yet no one listens too me :rolleyes:
Dave - for someone with one nut ur really being a big dick ;) stop busting my balls!
-Zac
| Davenow | 01-11-2004 09:55 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by zacincceo [/i]
[B] stop busting my balls!
-Zac [/B][/QUOTE]
nope:devil:
His intake MAY do something it its somewhat isolated from the hot engine compartment. If its just hanging out open in there than CONGRATS! You just LOST hp:lol:
If its a CAI it should give him a couple HP anyway.
[B] stop busting my balls!
-Zac [/B][/QUOTE]
nope:devil:
His intake MAY do something it its somewhat isolated from the hot engine compartment. If its just hanging out open in there than CONGRATS! You just LOST hp:lol:
If its a CAI it should give him a couple HP anyway.
| 1stgearsyncro | 01-11-2004 10:04 PM |
....damn will never win...
| exhacker | 01-12-2004 07:24 AM |
Drifting in AWD, by nature, requires that you scrub off speed. It does not require you to point the front tires out of the turn during the drift. A true drift is all four wheels skidding out of the turn, with the car and tires pointed into the turn... not like you see on all these drifter videos and Initial D.
Sorry, that is powersliding (pointing the steering wheels out of the turn), and is a [i]horrible[/i] idea unless you buy rear tires weekly. Powersliding is weak, slow, and *only* useful in a calculated hairpin turn to maintain exit speed. Or maybe in NFS Riceville. (Don't forget to pull the handbrake :rolleyes: ) Powerslides are also rough on the stock WRX center VC unit. Since this is not a true LSD, it tries to compensate for the difference in shaft speed by heating up the fluids. Powersliding will eventually overheat the fluid beyond the point you have full time AWD.
Another thing... the cars you see doing this drifting at 70 mph have true LSD units in the rear, and push 250+ rwhp. This helps them to accelerate into the turn and control their direction with throttle. In the middle of a high-speed drift in one of these cars, you could steer the front wheel side to side and nothing would happen.... I've been there. The only ways to come out is either smoothly, or flipping end-over-end. Our Subarus use fluids and plates in the diffs for reacting to varying types of surfaces. The wrx has the VC units in the center *and* rear, which helps to promote up to 3 wheels having traction, but this still doesn't permit me to be a complete jackass, even with upgraded suspension. I've seen a WRX with upgraded suspension smoke the rear tires through a turn and oversteer, but he was easily losing 5 miles/hour/sec. The FHI cars are just not designed for that type of sloppy driving.
If you want to drift, you should get to know one road so well that you only move the steering wheel twice per turn... once for the entrance, and once for the exit, and steer with the throttle and (left-foot) brake. Eventually, maybe after a couple hundred tries, you'll drift through a couple of the turns safely. Remember to concentrate on the balance of the car, and unlearn anything that upsets the balance of the car. Don't be scared to use all three pedals at once!
Always exercise caution and leave yourself room to spin. You will eventually, so be ready for it and know how to control it. I recommend competing in autocross and test out your skills. And take off that stupid intake. You'll be much better off competing in stock car than trying for SM or STX with no experience. I have to agree that, without 300-hp+ at the flywheel, an intake is a bad idea. Intake *mods* are a good idea, trying to route colder air into the motor, and perhaps taking out the resonator. But there again, you're kicking yourself out of the hardest, most nationally-competitive class, STOCK. Remember the most important nut to adjust on the whole car is the one behind the wheel !
Sorry, that is powersliding (pointing the steering wheels out of the turn), and is a [i]horrible[/i] idea unless you buy rear tires weekly. Powersliding is weak, slow, and *only* useful in a calculated hairpin turn to maintain exit speed. Or maybe in NFS Riceville. (Don't forget to pull the handbrake :rolleyes: ) Powerslides are also rough on the stock WRX center VC unit. Since this is not a true LSD, it tries to compensate for the difference in shaft speed by heating up the fluids. Powersliding will eventually overheat the fluid beyond the point you have full time AWD.
Another thing... the cars you see doing this drifting at 70 mph have true LSD units in the rear, and push 250+ rwhp. This helps them to accelerate into the turn and control their direction with throttle. In the middle of a high-speed drift in one of these cars, you could steer the front wheel side to side and nothing would happen.... I've been there. The only ways to come out is either smoothly, or flipping end-over-end. Our Subarus use fluids and plates in the diffs for reacting to varying types of surfaces. The wrx has the VC units in the center *and* rear, which helps to promote up to 3 wheels having traction, but this still doesn't permit me to be a complete jackass, even with upgraded suspension. I've seen a WRX with upgraded suspension smoke the rear tires through a turn and oversteer, but he was easily losing 5 miles/hour/sec. The FHI cars are just not designed for that type of sloppy driving.
If you want to drift, you should get to know one road so well that you only move the steering wheel twice per turn... once for the entrance, and once for the exit, and steer with the throttle and (left-foot) brake. Eventually, maybe after a couple hundred tries, you'll drift through a couple of the turns safely. Remember to concentrate on the balance of the car, and unlearn anything that upsets the balance of the car. Don't be scared to use all three pedals at once!
Always exercise caution and leave yourself room to spin. You will eventually, so be ready for it and know how to control it. I recommend competing in autocross and test out your skills. And take off that stupid intake. You'll be much better off competing in stock car than trying for SM or STX with no experience. I have to agree that, without 300-hp+ at the flywheel, an intake is a bad idea. Intake *mods* are a good idea, trying to route colder air into the motor, and perhaps taking out the resonator. But there again, you're kicking yourself out of the hardest, most nationally-competitive class, STOCK. Remember the most important nut to adjust on the whole car is the one behind the wheel !
| ITWRX4ME | 01-12-2004 09:08 AM |
Drifting is hard enough in a WRX, much less a car with less horsepower. As has been stated, it requires a huge amount of speed to do it on dry pavement.
On a road course, I can drift my car for short distances, but nothing like the tail out, countersteering stuff you see in drift contests. It's just that all four wheels are sliding. At lower speeds (50 mph or so) it's almost always initiated by trailbraking into a turn. Other than that, it usually occurs on high speed corners, over 70 mph.
In dirt, snow or wet pavement, it's another matter entirely. The Skandinavian Flick described above helps to initiate the drift. After that, it's all throttle.
I believe someone on this board (johnfelstead was it?), participated in a drift marathon of sorts in a WRX (?). Went around a skid pad for hours on end, or something to that effect. Read about it last year. Anyway, it was on wet pavement.
Doing it on dry pavement on a regular basis would probably be really bad on the drive train.
On a road course, I can drift my car for short distances, but nothing like the tail out, countersteering stuff you see in drift contests. It's just that all four wheels are sliding. At lower speeds (50 mph or so) it's almost always initiated by trailbraking into a turn. Other than that, it usually occurs on high speed corners, over 70 mph.
In dirt, snow or wet pavement, it's another matter entirely. The Skandinavian Flick described above helps to initiate the drift. After that, it's all throttle.
I believe someone on this board (johnfelstead was it?), participated in a drift marathon of sorts in a WRX (?). Went around a skid pad for hours on end, or something to that effect. Read about it last year. Anyway, it was on wet pavement.
Doing it on dry pavement on a regular basis would probably be really bad on the drive train.
| lo-buck | 01-12-2004 12:21 PM |
[url]www.dgtrials.com[/url] :banana:
| Mad Scientist | 01-12-2004 01:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by exhacker [/i]
[B]Drifting in AWD, by nature, requires that you scrub off speed. It does not require you to point the front tires out of the turn during the drift. A true drift is all four wheels skidding out of the turn, with the car and tires pointed into the turn... not like you see on all these drifter videos and Initial D.
Sorry, that is powersliding (pointing the steering wheels out of the turn), and is a [i]horrible[/i] idea unless you buy rear tires weekly. Powersliding is weak, slow, and *only* useful in a calculated hairpin turn to maintain exit speed. Or maybe in NFS Riceville. (Don't forget to pull the handbrake :rolleyes: ) Powerslides are also rough on the stock WRX center VC unit. Since this is not a true LSD, it tries to compensate for the difference in shaft speed by heating up the fluids. Powersliding will eventually overheat the fluid beyond the point you have full time AWD.
Another thing... the cars you see doing this drifting at 70 mph have true LSD units in the rear, and push 250+ rwhp. This helps them to accelerate into the turn and control their direction with throttle. In the middle of a high-speed drift in one of these cars, you could steer the front wheel side to side and nothing would happen.... I've been there. The only ways to come out is either smoothly, or flipping end-over-end. Our Subarus use fluids and plates in the diffs for reacting to varying types of surfaces. The wrx has the VC units in the center *and* rear, which helps to promote up to 3 wheels having traction, but this still doesn't permit me to be a complete jackass, even with upgraded suspension. I've seen a WRX with upgraded suspension smoke the rear tires through a turn and oversteer, but he was easily losing 5 miles/hour/sec. The FHI cars are just not designed for that type of sloppy driving.
If you want to drift, you should get to know one road so well that you only move the steering wheel twice per turn... once for the entrance, and once for the exit, and steer with the throttle and (left-foot) brake. Eventually, maybe after a couple hundred tries, you'll drift through a couple of the turns safely. Remember to concentrate on the balance of the car, and unlearn anything that upsets the balance of the car. Don't be scared to use all three pedals at once!
Always exercise caution and leave yourself room to spin. You will eventually, so be ready for it and know how to control it. I recommend competing in autocross and test out your skills. And take off that stupid intake. You'll be much better off competing in stock car than trying for SM or STX with no experience. I have to agree that, without 300-hp+ at the flywheel, an intake is a bad idea. Intake *mods* are a good idea, trying to route colder air into the motor, and perhaps taking out the resonator. But there again, you're kicking yourself out of the hardest, most nationally-competitive class, STOCK. Remember the most important nut to adjust on the whole car is the one behind the wheel ! [/B][/QUOTE]
assuming this is directed at me...( maybe it isn't )
what I described may not be the way to win a drift contest...but it is a relatively easy and safe way to get the feel for what's going on....once he can do these basic manouvers (sp) at slow speeds he can practice gettign faster and faster until he can drift with all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed in the same direction....
but as has been stated he would need more power for that andat least the basic skills (and the over all feel) for at least a power induced oversteer...
it's all about little steps...
exhacker...I'm not bustin your chops...I'm just clarifying :)
[B]Drifting in AWD, by nature, requires that you scrub off speed. It does not require you to point the front tires out of the turn during the drift. A true drift is all four wheels skidding out of the turn, with the car and tires pointed into the turn... not like you see on all these drifter videos and Initial D.
Sorry, that is powersliding (pointing the steering wheels out of the turn), and is a [i]horrible[/i] idea unless you buy rear tires weekly. Powersliding is weak, slow, and *only* useful in a calculated hairpin turn to maintain exit speed. Or maybe in NFS Riceville. (Don't forget to pull the handbrake :rolleyes: ) Powerslides are also rough on the stock WRX center VC unit. Since this is not a true LSD, it tries to compensate for the difference in shaft speed by heating up the fluids. Powersliding will eventually overheat the fluid beyond the point you have full time AWD.
Another thing... the cars you see doing this drifting at 70 mph have true LSD units in the rear, and push 250+ rwhp. This helps them to accelerate into the turn and control their direction with throttle. In the middle of a high-speed drift in one of these cars, you could steer the front wheel side to side and nothing would happen.... I've been there. The only ways to come out is either smoothly, or flipping end-over-end. Our Subarus use fluids and plates in the diffs for reacting to varying types of surfaces. The wrx has the VC units in the center *and* rear, which helps to promote up to 3 wheels having traction, but this still doesn't permit me to be a complete jackass, even with upgraded suspension. I've seen a WRX with upgraded suspension smoke the rear tires through a turn and oversteer, but he was easily losing 5 miles/hour/sec. The FHI cars are just not designed for that type of sloppy driving.
If you want to drift, you should get to know one road so well that you only move the steering wheel twice per turn... once for the entrance, and once for the exit, and steer with the throttle and (left-foot) brake. Eventually, maybe after a couple hundred tries, you'll drift through a couple of the turns safely. Remember to concentrate on the balance of the car, and unlearn anything that upsets the balance of the car. Don't be scared to use all three pedals at once!
Always exercise caution and leave yourself room to spin. You will eventually, so be ready for it and know how to control it. I recommend competing in autocross and test out your skills. And take off that stupid intake. You'll be much better off competing in stock car than trying for SM or STX with no experience. I have to agree that, without 300-hp+ at the flywheel, an intake is a bad idea. Intake *mods* are a good idea, trying to route colder air into the motor, and perhaps taking out the resonator. But there again, you're kicking yourself out of the hardest, most nationally-competitive class, STOCK. Remember the most important nut to adjust on the whole car is the one behind the wheel ! [/B][/QUOTE]
assuming this is directed at me...( maybe it isn't )
what I described may not be the way to win a drift contest...but it is a relatively easy and safe way to get the feel for what's going on....once he can do these basic manouvers (sp) at slow speeds he can practice gettign faster and faster until he can drift with all 4 wheels spinning at the same speed in the same direction....
but as has been stated he would need more power for that andat least the basic skills (and the over all feel) for at least a power induced oversteer...
it's all about little steps...
exhacker...I'm not bustin your chops...I'm just clarifying :)
| 8Complex | 01-12-2004 02:40 PM |
You can't keep a low-power AWD car in a drift unless you are at excessive speeds. Or I should say, on the edge of tire adhesion.
If you're talking about "drifting" as in sliding, like you see all these drift shows/videos, then no, you can't do that in an AWD car without excessive power.
If you're talking about "drifting" as in sliding, like you see all these drift shows/videos, then no, you can't do that in an AWD car without excessive power.
| Acejam2k | 01-14-2004 11:32 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ITWRX4ME [/i]
[B]Drifting is hard enough in a WRX, much less a car with less horsepower. As has been stated, it requires a huge amount of speed to do it on dry pavement.
On a road course, I can drift my car for short distances, but nothing like the tail out, countersteering stuff you see in drift contests. It's just that all four wheels are sliding. At lower speeds (50 mph or so) it's almost always initiated by trailbraking into a turn. Other than that, it usually occurs on high speed corners, over 70 mph.
In dirt, snow or wet pavement, it's another matter entirely. The Skandinavian Flick described above helps to initiate the drift. After that, it's all throttle.
I believe someone on this board (johnfelstead was it?), participated in a drift marathon of sorts in a WRX (?). Went around a skid pad for hours on end, or something to that effect. Read about it last year. Anyway, it was on wet pavement.
Doing it on dry pavement on a regular basis would probably be really bad on the drive train. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeh, in snow im able to do it quite well, i can going back and forth swinging the car side to side and holding each drift/slide for a few seconds, this is all while going down a striaight road..
can something such as doing this in snow mess up my tires or any of my differentials really? I almost NEVER use the ebrake in my car...altough i've read from some people its bad to, and some say its fine....
[B]Drifting is hard enough in a WRX, much less a car with less horsepower. As has been stated, it requires a huge amount of speed to do it on dry pavement.
On a road course, I can drift my car for short distances, but nothing like the tail out, countersteering stuff you see in drift contests. It's just that all four wheels are sliding. At lower speeds (50 mph or so) it's almost always initiated by trailbraking into a turn. Other than that, it usually occurs on high speed corners, over 70 mph.
In dirt, snow or wet pavement, it's another matter entirely. The Skandinavian Flick described above helps to initiate the drift. After that, it's all throttle.
I believe someone on this board (johnfelstead was it?), participated in a drift marathon of sorts in a WRX (?). Went around a skid pad for hours on end, or something to that effect. Read about it last year. Anyway, it was on wet pavement.
Doing it on dry pavement on a regular basis would probably be really bad on the drive train. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeh, in snow im able to do it quite well, i can going back and forth swinging the car side to side and holding each drift/slide for a few seconds, this is all while going down a striaight road..
can something such as doing this in snow mess up my tires or any of my differentials really? I almost NEVER use the ebrake in my car...altough i've read from some people its bad to, and some say its fine....
| Kitsune | 01-14-2004 05:56 PM |
Don't go drifting on dry tarmac in an AWD daily driver, unless you want to ruin the drivetrain.
AWD has a purpose, to maintain traction. That is, why they do not drift well on dry tarmac. Don't ruin your car, cause it will ruin it, you smell that? Its burning clutch, that is not good.
If you want to "drift" go find some dirt or get a cheap RWD or even FWD car.
As far as the e-brake goes. Pulling the ebrake is'nt really a good idea, but I'm guilty of doing this at rallyx, if you push the clutch in when you ebrake this will take some strain off the drivetrain. I still don't advocate doing it though. Plus, with AWD, learning how to use momentum and throttle steer allows for more control then ebraking.
AWD has a purpose, to maintain traction. That is, why they do not drift well on dry tarmac. Don't ruin your car, cause it will ruin it, you smell that? Its burning clutch, that is not good.
If you want to "drift" go find some dirt or get a cheap RWD or even FWD car.
As far as the e-brake goes. Pulling the ebrake is'nt really a good idea, but I'm guilty of doing this at rallyx, if you push the clutch in when you ebrake this will take some strain off the drivetrain. I still don't advocate doing it though. Plus, with AWD, learning how to use momentum and throttle steer allows for more control then ebraking.
| wrx2.0 555 | 01-14-2004 06:07 PM |
Rain would help..........alot.........
| KC | 01-14-2004 06:11 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Acejam2k[/i]
[B] yeh, in snow im able to do it quite well, i can going back and forth swinging the car side to side and holding each drift/slide for a few seconds, this is all while going down a striaight road..
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's called powersliding.... not drifting. Drifting is around corners. At least if you want to think you're doing something, at least get to know the terminology.
[QUOTE][B]can something such as doing this in snow mess up my tires or any of my differentials really? I almost NEVER use the ebrake in my car...altough i've read from some people its bad to, and some say its fine.... [/B][/QUOTE]
In the snow... nothing can happen. Dry pavement... icky stuff can happen. In the New England forum, there's postings about Ice Racing and Rally-X in the snow. Get yourself to them. Don't practice 'drifting' on public roads.... for your sake, for your cars sake. Curbs are a messy proposition with a-arms in the winter. Just call your local subaru dealer and talk to the service desk... ask them how many bent control arms they replace every winter from poeple that just drive 'normally' in their subaru.
You're in Concord Ma? The closest place for drifting competition is in NY/NJ. No place around here to do it legally as an event. And the only way to practice it around here is illegaly.
I'd suggest you do one of two things... 1) Move to where they do do it or 2) find a different thing to do with your car. (See the two options above)
--KC
[B] yeh, in snow im able to do it quite well, i can going back and forth swinging the car side to side and holding each drift/slide for a few seconds, this is all while going down a striaight road..
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's called powersliding.... not drifting. Drifting is around corners. At least if you want to think you're doing something, at least get to know the terminology.
[QUOTE][B]can something such as doing this in snow mess up my tires or any of my differentials really? I almost NEVER use the ebrake in my car...altough i've read from some people its bad to, and some say its fine.... [/B][/QUOTE]
In the snow... nothing can happen. Dry pavement... icky stuff can happen. In the New England forum, there's postings about Ice Racing and Rally-X in the snow. Get yourself to them. Don't practice 'drifting' on public roads.... for your sake, for your cars sake. Curbs are a messy proposition with a-arms in the winter. Just call your local subaru dealer and talk to the service desk... ask them how many bent control arms they replace every winter from poeple that just drive 'normally' in their subaru.
You're in Concord Ma? The closest place for drifting competition is in NY/NJ. No place around here to do it legally as an event. And the only way to practice it around here is illegaly.
I'd suggest you do one of two things... 1) Move to where they do do it or 2) find a different thing to do with your car. (See the two options above)
--KC
| Kitsune | 01-14-2004 07:11 PM |
Concord is a great location to get involved in rallyx. Check NER SCCA region's schedule. There is a rallyx at O'neil's rally school at the end of this month, go check that out if you want to get a good feel for the car getting sideways.
| Acejam2k | 01-14-2004 10:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]That's called powersliding.... not drifting. Drifting is around corners. At least if you want to think you're doing something, at least get to know the terminology.
In the snow... nothing can happen. Dry pavement... icky stuff can happen. In the New England forum, there's postings about Ice Racing and Rally-X in the snow. Get yourself to them. Don't practice 'drifting' on public roads.... for your sake, for your cars sake. Curbs are a messy proposition with a-arms in the winter. Just call your local subaru dealer and talk to the service desk... ask them how many bent control arms they replace every winter from poeple that just drive 'normally' in their subaru.
You're in Concord Ma? The closest place for drifting competition is in NY/NJ. No place around here to do it legally as an event. And the only way to practice it around here is illegaly.
I'd suggest you do one of two things... 1) Move to where they do do it or 2) find a different thing to do with your car. (See the two options above)
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeh i understand what you are saying...I only do it on VERY open roads, which are compeltely DESERTED, I would never endanger myself like that, Im completely nuts when it comes to how clean my car is, let alone a bunp or dent i get from hitting something...
Also, I wanted to do ice racing on the 18th, but it seems it is canceled. looks liek i gotta wait till Feb. 1st...i plan on doing that thru BMW CCA...should be fun :)
[B]That's called powersliding.... not drifting. Drifting is around corners. At least if you want to think you're doing something, at least get to know the terminology.
In the snow... nothing can happen. Dry pavement... icky stuff can happen. In the New England forum, there's postings about Ice Racing and Rally-X in the snow. Get yourself to them. Don't practice 'drifting' on public roads.... for your sake, for your cars sake. Curbs are a messy proposition with a-arms in the winter. Just call your local subaru dealer and talk to the service desk... ask them how many bent control arms they replace every winter from poeple that just drive 'normally' in their subaru.
You're in Concord Ma? The closest place for drifting competition is in NY/NJ. No place around here to do it legally as an event. And the only way to practice it around here is illegaly.
I'd suggest you do one of two things... 1) Move to where they do do it or 2) find a different thing to do with your car. (See the two options above)
--KC [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeh i understand what you are saying...I only do it on VERY open roads, which are compeltely DESERTED, I would never endanger myself like that, Im completely nuts when it comes to how clean my car is, let alone a bunp or dent i get from hitting something...
Also, I wanted to do ice racing on the 18th, but it seems it is canceled. looks liek i gotta wait till Feb. 1st...i plan on doing that thru BMW CCA...should be fun :)
| AllSeven | 01-14-2004 10:41 PM |
ok well since i bet like over half of you have never actualy drifted............. you need around 300whp and awd is mint. 240's are nice but awd is easly done nfp
| marcus12 | 01-15-2004 01:42 AM |
From what I've heard, you need these two things:
1. Rear suspension to be tight as hell
2. Front suspension to be loose as hell
that will make oversteer a lot easier in AWD
(or you can do like me and just have 4 completely SHOT struts :D )
happy drifting!
//marcus
Oh, and they usually OIL the corners of actual drift event tracks, so I'd also suggest rigging up a button in your car like the BatMobile that sprays oil on the road in front of your car:rolleyes:
1. Rear suspension to be tight as hell
2. Front suspension to be loose as hell
that will make oversteer a lot easier in AWD
(or you can do like me and just have 4 completely SHOT struts :D )
happy drifting!
//marcus
Oh, and they usually OIL the corners of actual drift event tracks, so I'd also suggest rigging up a button in your car like the BatMobile that sprays oil on the road in front of your car:rolleyes:
| exhacker | 01-16-2004 04:48 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by marcus12 [/i]
[B]Oh, and they usually OIL the corners of actual drift event tracks, so I'd also suggest rigging up a button in your car like the BatMobile that sprays oil on the road in front of your car:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll just re-route the windscreen sprayer to spray "traction treatment" straight onto the ground under the fogs. Hope the spray doesn't ignite on the exhaust ..... :devil: "oops, did i just flame someone IRL ?...."
I can't forget the counter-weighted swingarm to compensate for yaw.... anybody up for a project :rolleyes:
[B]Oh, and they usually OIL the corners of actual drift event tracks, so I'd also suggest rigging up a button in your car like the BatMobile that sprays oil on the road in front of your car:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll just re-route the windscreen sprayer to spray "traction treatment" straight onto the ground under the fogs. Hope the spray doesn't ignite on the exhaust ..... :devil: "oops, did i just flame someone IRL ?...."
I can't forget the counter-weighted swingarm to compensate for yaw.... anybody up for a project :rolleyes:
| Turbogeek | 01-16-2004 06:47 AM |
You know, you COULD find a set of space saver rims and attendant tyres. There is a total lack of grip with those and also, they are easy to overpower. *
* - everything said in this post should be viewed upon with suspicion and any resposiblity for actually following said post lies with the reader, not the poster. Poster admits he wouldnt even try.
* - everything said in this post should be viewed upon with suspicion and any resposiblity for actually following said post lies with the reader, not the poster. Poster admits he wouldnt even try.
| xxtwowheelfiendxx | 01-16-2004 11:04 AM |
:2cents:
You live in Mass and its january, so wait until the roads are really icy and go to a big parking lot and snow drift. When i went home to VT for X-mas i did it a bunch in my old high school parking lot with my moms Outback. Id do that before you did it on pavment.
You live in Mass and its january, so wait until the roads are really icy and go to a big parking lot and snow drift. When i went home to VT for X-mas i did it a bunch in my old high school parking lot with my moms Outback. Id do that before you did it on pavment.
| jblaine | 01-16-2004 11:40 AM |
IMO, it would be [b]much more applicable[/b] to learn on wet/filmy asphalt at 40MPH.
Learning on snow/ice will teach you (and I have plenty to learn still), but everything is so subtle that it really would be hard to translate the efforts, etc, to anything other than dry asphalt drifting at 90MPH with an 800WHP car. It's goofy... unless you have pretty hardcore tires suited to the snow or ice you're on.
Learning on snow/ice will teach you (and I have plenty to learn still), but everything is so subtle that it really would be hard to translate the efforts, etc, to anything other than dry asphalt drifting at 90MPH with an 800WHP car. It's goofy... unless you have pretty hardcore tires suited to the snow or ice you're on.
| CeeLowe | 02-09-2004 12:22 AM |
forgive me if this has already been mentioned.. I just skimmed the posts.. But one of the best ways to drift is "lift off Oversteer" and the easiest way to accomplish this is to come into a corner hard and give a slight opposite direction flick of the wheel then lift throttle and turn into the corner and correct accordingly. This works like the one mentioned about stabbing the clutch, without the excessive shock on your driveline. This does not require arse loads of power to do with an all wheel drive car, just driving skill. You may also use the E-Brake slightly to get the cars back end out and once again correct accordingly. But once again. Drifting does not require lots of power, it requires a certain skill that many people dont have, and is very hard to acquire. All wheel drive cars have always had the tendancy to understeer into corners, meaning the front end runs wide and you have to lift throttle to retain grip. But you would be surprised how easy the back end will come around when throttle is lifted into a corner. I have a stage 4 wrx with suspension upgrades and 17/8" wheels with 225 z rated tires. This doesnt mean crap when you lift throttle in a corner, the car will still come around very quickly. The wheels, tires, and suspension just allow me to either correct it easier, or push it further without it coming out. But lifting throttle it will do it every time. If you would like to see a video of one of the best drivers in the world performing this action in a bone stock audi rs4 then go to [url]www.racingflix.com.[/url] Go to videos, road tests, scroll down close to the bottom, and download the Audi RS4.. You have to register to download the video but you can see this technique done flawlessly. The registration is worth it because the site is awesome.
C-Lo
C-Lo
| Mx5racer | 02-09-2004 02:51 PM |
You are going to tear up your drive train if you try drifting on dry pavement. The best is to do it on snow.
I posted these somewhere else, but I took these videos inside of an STI driving on a frozen lake. The first turn is a total wipe out, but when you hit snow, it doesn't hurt to much (hopefully!). In one of the turns, the driver tried to drift, turned into a 360, and kept driving on course. Nice work! Notice on the last turn, the STI is accelerating hard doing a serious drift. The car is pointing almost 90 degrees away from the direction of travel, but the AWD straightens the car out nicely and he heads for the finish line...
[url]http://dtwaudi.com/downloads/Ice-Race-1.MPG[/url]
[url]http://dtwaudi.com/downloads/Ice-Race-2.MPG[/url]
I posted these somewhere else, but I took these videos inside of an STI driving on a frozen lake. The first turn is a total wipe out, but when you hit snow, it doesn't hurt to much (hopefully!). In one of the turns, the driver tried to drift, turned into a 360, and kept driving on course. Nice work! Notice on the last turn, the STI is accelerating hard doing a serious drift. The car is pointing almost 90 degrees away from the direction of travel, but the AWD straightens the car out nicely and he heads for the finish line...
[url]http://dtwaudi.com/downloads/Ice-Race-1.MPG[/url]
[url]http://dtwaudi.com/downloads/Ice-Race-2.MPG[/url]
| KC | 02-09-2004 04:05 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CeeLowe[/i]
[B] forgive me if this has already been mentioned.. I just skimmed the posts.. But one of the best ways to drift is "lift off Oversteer" and the easiest way to accomplish this is to come into a corner hard and give a slight opposite direction flick of the wheel then lift throttle and turn into the corner and correct accordingly. This works like the one mentioned about stabbing the clutch, without the excessive shock on your driveline. This does not require arse loads of power to do with an all wheel drive car, just driving skill. You may also use the E-Brake slightly to get the cars back end out and once again correct accordingly. But once again. Drifting does not require lots of power, it requires a certain skill that many people dont have, and is very hard to acquire. All wheel drive cars have always had the tendancy to understeer into corners, meaning the front end runs wide and you have to lift throttle to retain grip. But you would be surprised how easy the back end will come around when throttle is lifted into a corner. [/B][/QUOTE]
Can someone explain to me the difference between powersliding and drifting? Are they the same? I'd like to think not, and yet this poster makes it seem that what he describes is something I call a powerslide, is also 'drifting'?
--kC
[B] forgive me if this has already been mentioned.. I just skimmed the posts.. But one of the best ways to drift is "lift off Oversteer" and the easiest way to accomplish this is to come into a corner hard and give a slight opposite direction flick of the wheel then lift throttle and turn into the corner and correct accordingly. This works like the one mentioned about stabbing the clutch, without the excessive shock on your driveline. This does not require arse loads of power to do with an all wheel drive car, just driving skill. You may also use the E-Brake slightly to get the cars back end out and once again correct accordingly. But once again. Drifting does not require lots of power, it requires a certain skill that many people dont have, and is very hard to acquire. All wheel drive cars have always had the tendancy to understeer into corners, meaning the front end runs wide and you have to lift throttle to retain grip. But you would be surprised how easy the back end will come around when throttle is lifted into a corner. [/B][/QUOTE]
Can someone explain to me the difference between powersliding and drifting? Are they the same? I'd like to think not, and yet this poster makes it seem that what he describes is something I call a powerslide, is also 'drifting'?
--kC
| paultg | 02-09-2004 07:36 PM |
to me:
Powersliding = breaking traction with horsepower via applying excessive amounts of throttle while turning. Skid is controlled with throttle input. No brakes required.
Drifting = all four wheels on the verge of traction sliding in a controlled skid via steering input and controling weight transfer via applying the brakes with left foot and throttle.
Just my opinion.
Paul g.
Powersliding = breaking traction with horsepower via applying excessive amounts of throttle while turning. Skid is controlled with throttle input. No brakes required.
Drifting = all four wheels on the verge of traction sliding in a controlled skid via steering input and controling weight transfer via applying the brakes with left foot and throttle.
Just my opinion.
Paul g.
| CeeLowe | 02-09-2004 10:08 PM |
Paul,
I would say that that is a very good decription. I was sitting there thinking of how one might describe the two but you basically did it. And no the way I explained isnt exactly "drifting" but it is a good way to learn. If you ever watch the "signal twins" they drift exceptionally well. But there is alot more to what they do then just the whole lift off oversteer theory. Basically they take all aspects of powersliding, oversteering, braking, utilyzing excessive power, clutch and throttle modulation, and put it into one extremely complex form of art. Theres no other way to decribe what they do except art. But as you see they brake their cars 2-3 times a day because they are so hard on them. But as I mentioned lift off oversteer isnt excessively hard on any other aspect of your car except the tires. Because you are using the momentum and weight of the car to spin itself out. Therefore not putting a shock on the driveline, clutch, or diff's.
Chris
I would say that that is a very good decription. I was sitting there thinking of how one might describe the two but you basically did it. And no the way I explained isnt exactly "drifting" but it is a good way to learn. If you ever watch the "signal twins" they drift exceptionally well. But there is alot more to what they do then just the whole lift off oversteer theory. Basically they take all aspects of powersliding, oversteering, braking, utilyzing excessive power, clutch and throttle modulation, and put it into one extremely complex form of art. Theres no other way to decribe what they do except art. But as you see they brake their cars 2-3 times a day because they are so hard on them. But as I mentioned lift off oversteer isnt excessively hard on any other aspect of your car except the tires. Because you are using the momentum and weight of the car to spin itself out. Therefore not putting a shock on the driveline, clutch, or diff's.
Chris
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