| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 12:27 AM |
240sx vs impreza in rallycross
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What would perform better in rallycross and solo? A 240sx or 93 to about 97 impreza? Thanks.
| MyScoobie28 | 09-05-2005 12:47 AM |
are you a troll?
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 01:15 AM |
Well, all wheel drive would help of course, but drivetrain friction reduces power and 240 sx tends to have better handling, you kull. How about an answer? This is a forum not a q&a. Think about what you say, I meant pros and cons. Moron.
| DoctorNick | 09-05-2005 01:37 AM |
Too many what ifs to make a real idea of which would be better.
Who is running what kinda tires. Is the 240 a swap? Is the impreza a swap? Autos or manuals? FWD or AWD (for the imp) list goes on.
I'd say if the course is rough w/ lots of ruts and mud..i'd say the impreza. But then again, a well prep'd car is crap without a good/decent/competent driver.
Who is running what kinda tires. Is the 240 a swap? Is the impreza a swap? Autos or manuals? FWD or AWD (for the imp) list goes on.
I'd say if the course is rough w/ lots of ruts and mud..i'd say the impreza. But then again, a well prep'd car is crap without a good/decent/competent driver.
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 01:41 AM |
I meant awd impreza vs rwd nissan with stock engines and manuals with summer tires. I suppose it really all boils down to the driver. I think maybe the impreza would be good for traction purposes, but you could whip the nissan around a bit more.
| DoctorNick | 09-05-2005 01:44 AM |
I hope the nissan is rwd :lol:
depends on the size of the course, a small tight course with a gravel would be better for the imp, a long sweeping course would be good for the nissan. No?
Summer tires aren't the best thing for that kinda competition either.
depends on the size of the course, a small tight course with a gravel would be better for the imp, a long sweeping course would be good for the nissan. No?
Summer tires aren't the best thing for that kinda competition either.
| svek | 09-05-2005 01:55 AM |
why summer tires?
ps-this thread sucks
ps-this thread sucks
| greg donovan | 09-05-2005 01:59 AM |
if both were on summer tires i say impreza.
my FWD non turbo legacy was even w/a 240/silvia on courses that were tight. if it opened up a bit the 240/silvia would pull ahead on the time sheet. however, his RWD antics would usually knock over more cones than my cleaner FWD line would. i had better traction. we both had open diffs. if one of us had a LSD that would be the one on top.
my FWD non turbo legacy was even w/a 240/silvia on courses that were tight. if it opened up a bit the 240/silvia would pull ahead on the time sheet. however, his RWD antics would usually knock over more cones than my cleaner FWD line would. i had better traction. we both had open diffs. if one of us had a LSD that would be the one on top.
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 12:43 PM |
I said summer tires, just for a stock to stock basis. svek, ps. what's with the attitude?
| DoctorNick | 09-05-2005 01:03 PM |
Well, you asked a question with no possible answer.
Its always gonna come down to driver and a LSD :D
Its always gonna come down to driver and a LSD :D
| cowapult | 09-05-2005 01:35 PM |
You could just look up the SCCA nationals results and see which turned better times. But bottom line, at a real, local, event, with an ordinary person like you behind the wheel, it will be determined by the driver.
| KC | 09-05-2005 02:49 PM |
Rally-x would most likely be the impreza. Better traction possibilities vs RWD. (ie; more drive tires to pull the car out of dirt instead of 'push' it around the course.)
Auto-x, it can come down to driver. They're both in the same class. Traction only gets you so far on an auto-x.
Auto-x, it can come down to driver. They're both in the same class. Traction only gets you so far on an auto-x.
| WRXedUSA | 09-05-2005 03:41 PM |
Is this a trick question?
| ChrisDP | 09-05-2005 04:19 PM |
The Impreza will be easier to drive fast on dirt, that's for sure. AWD allows you to fix a lot of low traction bobbles with little more than a big bootful of gas, where the same technique would have you aimed at the gate you just passed while rallycrossing. A better driver in a 240 can still win, but he'd be working harder.
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 04:47 PM |
Thanks, for those who gave answers. I was mainly asking if the 240sx even works for this kind of thing or if the weight dist is completely off or something. And again the subaru would have more traction but it's easier to whip a rwd around sharp turns and a skilled driver can steer with power easier.
| Howl | 09-05-2005 05:19 PM |
When Audi introduced AWD cars to the world rally circuit in the early 1980's, they often won rallys by more than seven minutes over every other car. In that period the only rallys they didn't win was because of crashes, mechanical breakdowns (which rarely happened) or disqualification because of a technical infringment. 2WD's haven't competed successfully in the top levels of rallying since.
In RallyX a mediocre driver in an AWD can probably match the times of a very good driver in any 2WD.
In RallyX a mediocre driver in an AWD can probably match the times of a very good driver in any 2WD.
| cowapult | 09-05-2005 07:06 PM |
[QUOTE=Howl]When Audi introduced AWD cars to the world rally circuit in the early 1980's, they often won rallys by more than seven minutes over every other car. In that period the only rallys they didn't win was because of crashes, mechanical breakdowns (which rarely happened) or disqualification because of a technical infringment. 2WD's haven't competed successfully in the top levels of rallying since.
In RallyX a mediocre driver in an AWD can probably match the times of a very good driver in any 2WD.[/QUOTE]
That's not true at all depending on the surface. 2WD Sentras and Neons regularly take top honors (beating out dozens of RS's, WRX's, STI's, Evos, etc... some of which have extremely good drivers). Same driver turned significantly better times in an old Sentra than he did in a 4WD 323 GTX
In RallyX a mediocre driver in an AWD can probably match the times of a very good driver in any 2WD.[/QUOTE]
That's not true at all depending on the surface. 2WD Sentras and Neons regularly take top honors (beating out dozens of RS's, WRX's, STI's, Evos, etc... some of which have extremely good drivers). Same driver turned significantly better times in an old Sentra than he did in a 4WD 323 GTX
| Fred | 09-05-2005 08:21 PM |
AWD > FWD >>>>>>> RWD (unless it's mid engine)
(from personal experience with great drivers in each type of car at our local rallyxes)
Bring a 500 hp 240SX to one of our rallycrosses, and I'll beat him by a LOT in my 165 hp 2.5RS. And I'll even spot him rally tires. :lol:
We had a guy bring a stock 240SX to our first ever rallycross, and while he had a lot of fun getting sideways when he even THOUGHT about accelerating, he never brought it back. He's a great driver, but he was way down the finishing order.
(from personal experience with great drivers in each type of car at our local rallyxes)
Bring a 500 hp 240SX to one of our rallycrosses, and I'll beat him by a LOT in my 165 hp 2.5RS. And I'll even spot him rally tires. :lol:
We had a guy bring a stock 240SX to our first ever rallycross, and while he had a lot of fun getting sideways when he even THOUGHT about accelerating, he never brought it back. He's a great driver, but he was way down the finishing order.
| WJM | 09-05-2005 08:28 PM |
ok, to end this disussion........
AWD>ALL in the dirt. PERIOD.
AWD>ALL in the dirt. PERIOD.
| Fred | 09-05-2005 08:28 PM |
[QUOTE]That's not true at all depending on the surface. 2WD Sentras and Neons regularly take top honors (beating out dozens of RS's, WRX's, STI's, Evos, etc... some of which have extremely good drivers). Same driver turned significantly better times in an old Sentra than he did in a 4WD 323 GTX[/QUOTE]
We had a freaking Suzuki Aerio AWD (and several FWD cars) beat an STi at one of our events this year. :lol:
And my co-Rallyx VP Carl Fisher kicks ass in a 96 Dodge Neon ACR - beats a lot of AWD guys. A guy named Rob Bergstrom from VA comes down and usually finishes in the top 3 overall with a 91 Sentra SE-R. But nobody has ever come close with a RWD car that wasn't mid-engined and driven by one of the best drivers in our club - a guy named Jim Feinberg. He's just really fast in anything, though. :)
We had a freaking Suzuki Aerio AWD (and several FWD cars) beat an STi at one of our events this year. :lol:
And my co-Rallyx VP Carl Fisher kicks ass in a 96 Dodge Neon ACR - beats a lot of AWD guys. A guy named Rob Bergstrom from VA comes down and usually finishes in the top 3 overall with a 91 Sentra SE-R. But nobody has ever come close with a RWD car that wasn't mid-engined and driven by one of the best drivers in our club - a guy named Jim Feinberg. He's just really fast in anything, though. :)
| Fred | 09-05-2005 08:33 PM |
as for solo - solo 1 or solo 2? What class? etc...
solo 2 - the same guy with the 240SX above runs DSP now, and has yet to beat a local guy who runs a DSP 2.5RS - but he's come close a couple of times, I think. Both cars are fun, though.
solo 2 - the same guy with the 240SX above runs DSP now, and has yet to beat a local guy who runs a DSP 2.5RS - but he's come close a couple of times, I think. Both cars are fun, though.
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 11:15 PM |
Well, I can run G5 and not have to run against awd if I'm running a 240sx. I like rwd, so the car appeals from me, also because of the fact that the engine is very very durable, and much easier to squeeze power out of. Three hundred to the wheels with a turbo kit and stock internals just sounds good. Then again, the traction of all wheel drive is nice, but I think ultimately, it will come down to the driver, and I think weight distribution will play a big roll. It's also nice not to lose power through extra drivetrain friction. The nissan suspension system is said to be equivelant to sports cars even up to 2003 and handles very well. I think it would be better for solo merely for that reason. Thanks for all the answers.
| chevelle100 | 09-05-2005 11:16 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]We had a freaking Suzuki Aerio AWD (and several FWD cars) beat an STi at one of our events this year. :lol:
And my co-Rallyx VP Carl Fisher kicks ass in a 96 Dodge Neon ACR - beats a lot of AWD guys. A guy named Rob Bergstrom from VA comes down and usually finishes in the top 3 overall with a 91 Sentra SE-R. But nobody has ever come close with a RWD car that wasn't mid-engined and driven by one of the best drivers in our club - a guy named Jim Feinberg. He's just really fast in anything, though. :)[/QUOTE]
Nobody has ever come close to winning in a rwd or come close to the guy in the rwd?
And my co-Rallyx VP Carl Fisher kicks ass in a 96 Dodge Neon ACR - beats a lot of AWD guys. A guy named Rob Bergstrom from VA comes down and usually finishes in the top 3 overall with a 91 Sentra SE-R. But nobody has ever come close with a RWD car that wasn't mid-engined and driven by one of the best drivers in our club - a guy named Jim Feinberg. He's just really fast in anything, though. :)[/QUOTE]
Nobody has ever come close to winning in a rwd or come close to the guy in the rwd?
| KC | 09-06-2005 08:08 AM |
Once you start saying "Three hundred to the wheels with a turbo kit and stock internals just sounds good" then the cars aren't comparable. You're playing mod against mod and no one can predict the outcome in either situation. Keep them in stock form, or just suspension work, and then the battle is closer for auto-x.. but rally-x is a different situation.
Again...
RWD and AWD are in different classes in Rally-x. They're not comparable and I would bet given the same driver driving both, the AWD will win. A great driver in ANY car can usually neat a novice in any car. But novice against novice in this situation comes down to minimizing mistakes/errors on the course... but the AWD will always have the edge. Not to mention, the impreza sits about 2" taller than the 240SX... so you also have bottoming out issues with the lower car... and that also costs time.
In auto-x, (in stock and lightly modified non-turbo) they're both in the same class and it's a drivers race to win or lose.
Again...
RWD and AWD are in different classes in Rally-x. They're not comparable and I would bet given the same driver driving both, the AWD will win. A great driver in ANY car can usually neat a novice in any car. But novice against novice in this situation comes down to minimizing mistakes/errors on the course... but the AWD will always have the edge. Not to mention, the impreza sits about 2" taller than the 240SX... so you also have bottoming out issues with the lower car... and that also costs time.
In auto-x, (in stock and lightly modified non-turbo) they're both in the same class and it's a drivers race to win or lose.
| Fred | 09-06-2005 08:50 AM |
[QUOTE]Nobody has ever come close to winning in a rwd or come close to the guy in the rwd?[/QUOTE]
Reading comprehension owns you, eh? "with" is the keyword here... :lol:
The closest Jim & his MR2 have ever come to me & my AWD monster is about 12 seconds over 5 minutes. And my competition had all DNFed or coned out, so I was just cruising.
[url]http://www.thscc.com/rallycross/events/2005/2005-0312overall.html[/url]
Also, when you're talking about adding power to the RWD car, the only place it's going to be useful is on tarmac. If you can't put 150hp to the dirt effectively, what do you think will happen with 300hp? :lol:
Reading comprehension owns you, eh? "with" is the keyword here... :lol:
The closest Jim & his MR2 have ever come to me & my AWD monster is about 12 seconds over 5 minutes. And my competition had all DNFed or coned out, so I was just cruising.
[url]http://www.thscc.com/rallycross/events/2005/2005-0312overall.html[/url]
Also, when you're talking about adding power to the RWD car, the only place it's going to be useful is on tarmac. If you can't put 150hp to the dirt effectively, what do you think will happen with 300hp? :lol:
| Howl | 09-06-2005 11:45 AM |
[QUOTE=cowapult]That's not true at all depending on the surface. 2WD Sentras and Neons regularly take top honors (beating out dozens of RS's, WRX's, STI's, Evos, etc... some of which have extremely good drivers). Same driver turned significantly better times in an old Sentra than he did in a 4WD 323 GTX[/QUOTE]
When I said "top levels of rallying" I meant WRC and its predecessors. At the local level 2WD can often win, but it is usually because the AWD's pushed too hard and either broken or crashed, while the 2WD's have played the safe slow game. In RallyX having proper Gravel tires can make more of a difference than having AWD.
When I said "top levels of rallying" I meant WRC and its predecessors. At the local level 2WD can often win, but it is usually because the AWD's pushed too hard and either broken or crashed, while the 2WD's have played the safe slow game. In RallyX having proper Gravel tires can make more of a difference than having AWD.
| chevelle100 | 09-06-2005 07:35 PM |
Reading comprehension didn't own me, poor writing did. It was your statement about how he's fast in anything that made me wonder whether you didn't mistype(sp?). And I'm aware of 150 hp being not only enough but more than enough on the dirt, there are times when pulling the revs quicker will help. And it would help in solo. And it's just nice to have an engine with those capabilites, let alone the reliability that shows.
| Fred | 09-06-2005 08:29 PM |
[QUOTE]But nobody has ever come close [B]to the fastest AWD cars [/B] with a RWD car that wasn't mid-engined and driven by one of the best drivers in our club - a guy named Jim Feinberg. He's just really fast in anything, though.[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you, sweetheart. :rolleyes:
Fixed it for you, sweetheart. :rolleyes:
| chevelle100 | 09-06-2005 08:32 PM |
Just funny that you comment on me, but it was because of your fault.
| chevelle100 | 09-06-2005 08:33 PM |
I like a forum I visit that has an icon with a hand giving the finger.
| Fred | 09-06-2005 08:47 PM |
thanks, you've made my day. :cool:
| chevelle100 | 09-06-2005 09:12 PM |
Any time.
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