| makofoto | 05-18-2005 12:34 AM |
2.5 Liter WRX ... STU winner ?
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A 2.5 WRX could be the new STU winner. Lighter, better gear ratios ... then STI's ...
I imagine it would be the Legacy 2.5 liter ... smaller turbo ? Which heads ? Which front Dif ?
I imagine it would be the Legacy 2.5 liter ... smaller turbo ? Which heads ? Which front Dif ?
| funsti | 05-18-2005 09:38 AM |
Yep.. the ability to stay in 1st gear the whole time on very tight courses does seem to be an advantage..
| makofoto | 05-18-2005 10:09 AM |
? ... wow, you guys must have some slow courses ... In the last 30+ events, we had one corner that I tried taking in first, a couple of times ...
| Got Pink? | 05-18-2005 10:16 AM |
Yeah those must be some really slow courses. I usually have to shift to 3rd at least once in most autox courses with stock sized tires and stock rev limiter.
I think that the lighter weight of the wrx will not outweigh the larger turbo and much better differentials of the STi. The STi has enough torque in third that is not really that big of a deal to shift more as long as you are good at it and can find a place to downshift when needed.
I think that the lighter weight of the wrx will not outweigh the larger turbo and much better differentials of the STi. The STi has enough torque in third that is not really that big of a deal to shift more as long as you are good at it and can find a place to downshift when needed.
| dwx | 05-18-2005 10:27 AM |
I don't think it's going to beat an STI anytime soon in STU, especially if it has an open front diff, which is likely.
I think it could be the car to have in DS though, if you don't mind buying a few sets of tires every year.
I think it could be the car to have in DS though, if you don't mind buying a few sets of tires every year.
| Osgood30 | 05-18-2005 10:47 AM |
phhuh, I rarely downshift back to 5th once I get going :p
| DrBiggly | 05-18-2005 10:51 AM |
Any speculation on it going to STX instead of STU? If it ends up in STX, I'm out right then as I definitely think it should be in STU. :)
-Biggly
-Biggly
| TheWRX | 05-18-2005 11:10 AM |
They haven't made exceptions for other forced induction cars over 2.0 liters in STX. Like the Legacy GT. Or the SRT4 (of course that one would be much too f4st ;) ). Even ones that would probably be underdogs, like the Mercedes C230 (supercharged 2.3 liter). So I don't see a reason why a 2.5 liter WRX should be anywhere but in STU.
Unless it's much lighter, my money would be on the STi. Those fancy differentials make a huge difference. And it's still going to have more power.
Unless it's much lighter, my money would be on the STi. Those fancy differentials make a huge difference. And it's still going to have more power.
| funsti | 05-18-2005 11:14 AM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]? ... wow, you guys must have some slow courses ... In the last 30+ events, we had one corner that I tried taking in first, a couple of times ...[/QUOTE]
Yep, the first two I've done so far down here in central carolina region have been VERY tight. At a recent event the raw FTD as well as top three spots in overall PAX were all set by either non-turbo Imprezas or WRXs and I heard some MAJOR rev limiter banging going on in 1st gear.
I've watched a bunch of auto-x vids so far and none of the courses have been even close to as tight as what we have run the past two events down here, lol.
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.
Yep, the first two I've done so far down here in central carolina region have been VERY tight. At a recent event the raw FTD as well as top three spots in overall PAX were all set by either non-turbo Imprezas or WRXs and I heard some MAJOR rev limiter banging going on in 1st gear.
I've watched a bunch of auto-x vids so far and none of the courses have been even close to as tight as what we have run the past two events down here, lol.
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.
| rankink | 05-18-2005 11:18 AM |
[QUOTE=TheWRX] Even ones that would probably be underdogs, like the Mercedes C230 (supercharged 2.3 liter).[/QUOTE]
Not that it matters, but the C230 is a supercharged 1.8 liter engine.
Not that it matters, but the C230 is a supercharged 1.8 liter engine.
| TheWRX | 05-18-2005 11:26 AM |
[QUOTE=rankink]Not that it matters, but the C230 is a supercharged 1.8 liter engine.[/QUOTE]
The new ones seem to be, but AFAIK the older models had a 2.3. A quick Google search finds a 2002 test saying: "The C230 comes in only one body style and with just one engine choice: a 192 horsepower, 2.3-liter, 4-cylinder engine with a belt-driven supercharger." See here:
[url]http://www.cartalk.com/content/testdrives/Reviews/mercedes-c230-coupe-2002.html[/url]
Anyway, sorry about the off topic excursion...
The new ones seem to be, but AFAIK the older models had a 2.3. A quick Google search finds a 2002 test saying: "The C230 comes in only one body style and with just one engine choice: a 192 horsepower, 2.3-liter, 4-cylinder engine with a belt-driven supercharger." See here:
[url]http://www.cartalk.com/content/testdrives/Reviews/mercedes-c230-coupe-2002.html[/url]
Anyway, sorry about the off topic excursion...
| zosima | 05-18-2005 11:27 AM |
STX engine size allowance rule:
14.11.A.3 Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0,
forced induction (single turbo or supercharger).
You speculating that may change to accomidate the new WRX? I personally doubt it.
14.11.A.3 Engine size allowance: up to 5.1, normally aspirated and 2.0,
forced induction (single turbo or supercharger).
You speculating that may change to accomidate the new WRX? I personally doubt it.
| trhoppe | 05-18-2005 11:28 AM |
STi > *.* for STU
-Tom
-Tom
| DrBiggly | 05-18-2005 11:28 AM |
[QUOTE=funsti]...I've watched a bunch of auto-x vids so far and none of the courses have been even close to as tight as what we have run the past two events down here, lol.
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.[/QUOTE]
Unless you're really good, leaving it in 1st the whole course isn't the way to do it as you'll be smoother in 2nd gear. It's quite difficult to keep the car smooth in 1st gear. In an STi you should basically *never* run across a course like that. You probably didn't make it to the Intimidators autox a week or two ago. I was crossing the finish line at about 50-55 depending on how early I got back on the gas in the series before the finish. It wasn't slow like the previous two events, although there was a pivot cone which made for an interesting time. :)
-Biggly
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.[/QUOTE]
Unless you're really good, leaving it in 1st the whole course isn't the way to do it as you'll be smoother in 2nd gear. It's quite difficult to keep the car smooth in 1st gear. In an STi you should basically *never* run across a course like that. You probably didn't make it to the Intimidators autox a week or two ago. I was crossing the finish line at about 50-55 depending on how early I got back on the gas in the series before the finish. It wasn't slow like the previous two events, although there was a pivot cone which made for an interesting time. :)
-Biggly
| funsti | 05-18-2005 11:48 AM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Unless you're really good, leaving it in 1st the whole course isn't the way to do it as you'll be smoother in 2nd gear. It's quite difficult to keep the car smooth in 1st gear. In an STi you should basically *never* run across a course like that. You probably didn't make it to the Intimidators autox a week or two ago. I was crossing the finish line at about 50-55 depending on how early I got back on the gas in the series before the finish. It wasn't slow like the previous two events, although there was a pivot cone which made for an interesting time. :)
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Yea man I barely made it to Intimidators. I grovelled a bit and Jane got me in there. I was hauling A** up to the finish line.. so much fun. Actually the Intimidators course was so much more open than the last one at Knights I was getting freaked out about getting lost because the turns were farther away and was braking WAY early. I'm still not looking ahead enough..
Still as much more open as the Intimidators course was last event it was still SUPER tight compared to some of the courses I've seen vids of. Do any of the other clubs nearby ever get venues that are HUGE like that?
-Biggly[/QUOTE]
Yea man I barely made it to Intimidators. I grovelled a bit and Jane got me in there. I was hauling A** up to the finish line.. so much fun. Actually the Intimidators course was so much more open than the last one at Knights I was getting freaked out about getting lost because the turns were farther away and was braking WAY early. I'm still not looking ahead enough..
Still as much more open as the Intimidators course was last event it was still SUPER tight compared to some of the courses I've seen vids of. Do any of the other clubs nearby ever get venues that are HUGE like that?
| MulletSlayer | 05-18-2005 11:51 AM |
What about DS? Will the extra .5 liter be enough to make it competitive.
| dwx | 05-18-2005 12:16 PM |
If the power band is anything like the LGT and it still weighs ~3000lbs I think it can be a contender. I would hope they would throw in the gearing of the LGT, but that remains to be seen. The other rumor that it will come with 17x7 wheels stock will help as well.
I think a bare-bones LGT could be competitive in DS with the right setup.
I think a bare-bones LGT could be competitive in DS with the right setup.
| afpdl | 05-18-2005 02:05 PM |
[QUOTE=funsti]
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.[/QUOTE]
Acorrding to the manual 1st gear is about the same (at redline 6mt is at 57kph 5mt 56kph), it just goes by alot faster.
I'm afraid to drive my STi like that mainly because I'm a noob but also because the 6MT 1st gear is quite a bit shorter.[/QUOTE]
Acorrding to the manual 1st gear is about the same (at redline 6mt is at 57kph 5mt 56kph), it just goes by alot faster.
| funsti | 05-18-2005 03:36 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Acorrding to the manual 1st gear is about the same (at redline 6mt is at 57kph 5mt 56kph), it just goes by alot faster.[/QUOTE]
Huh, it could be in my head then. I rode in a WRX that seemed to get close to 40mph (64kph) in 1st but it could have been my viewing angle from the passenger seat that made me think that.
If you look at the 1st gear ratios and multiply them out against the final drive ratios you get very close numbers between the STI and WRX:
STI 6MT: 3.636 * 3.900 = 14.1804
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 4.444 = 14.069704
In any case you're so right about 1st gear ripping through fast in the STi.. I'm afraid to use it in AutoX. I am going to patiently learn how to drive and go to as many Evolution and other AutoX driving schools as I can.
Huh, it could be in my head then. I rode in a WRX that seemed to get close to 40mph (64kph) in 1st but it could have been my viewing angle from the passenger seat that made me think that.
If you look at the 1st gear ratios and multiply them out against the final drive ratios you get very close numbers between the STI and WRX:
STI 6MT: 3.636 * 3.900 = 14.1804
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 4.444 = 14.069704
In any case you're so right about 1st gear ripping through fast in the STi.. I'm afraid to use it in AutoX. I am going to patiently learn how to drive and go to as many Evolution and other AutoX driving schools as I can.
| MinesFaster | 05-18-2005 04:16 PM |
Unless the WRX has had a final drive swap or is using an RA box, its still 3.9 FD not 4.44
STI 6MT: 3.636 * 3.900 = 14.1804
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 3.900= 12.3474
This is what allows for faster speed in 1st gear.
STI 6MT: 3.636 * 3.900 = 14.1804
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 3.900= 12.3474
This is what allows for faster speed in 1st gear.
| driggity | 05-18-2005 05:00 PM |
Isn't 1st gear in the WRX 3.454? 3.166 is 1st in the STi 5-speed and Legacy GT I believe.
| fliz | 05-18-2005 05:18 PM |
[QUOTE=driggity]Isn't 1st gear in the WRX 3.454? 3.166 is 1st in the STi 5-speed and Legacy GT I believe.[/QUOTE]
That's what the sheet of gear ratios I found shows.
That's what the sheet of gear ratios I found shows.
| afpdl | 05-18-2005 08:01 PM |
[QUOTE=funsti] STI 6MT: 3.636 * 3.900 = 14.1804
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 4.444 = 14.069704
[/QUOTE]
Where did you find those ratios? Everything I can find says wrx is 3.454 and the final drive is 3.9. The tires are also a slightly different rolling diameter stock. The ratios arent the same but they both end right around 35mph. Second gear is where things get different. Also what the speedo says and how fast the car is actually going may not agree.
WRX 5MT: 3.166 * 4.444 = 14.069704
[/QUOTE]
Where did you find those ratios? Everything I can find says wrx is 3.454 and the final drive is 3.9. The tires are also a slightly different rolling diameter stock. The ratios arent the same but they both end right around 35mph. Second gear is where things get different. Also what the speedo says and how fast the car is actually going may not agree.
| funsti | 05-19-2005 09:12 AM |
DUDES, my bad. Those must be JDM WRX gear ratios. I must not have looked at the webpage google brought up closely enough, sorry about that!
Yes, I just found another page showing WRX 1st as 3.454 and final drive as 3.900. Multiplied out that's 13.4706 so that should be noticably taller than the STi 1st gear.
Yes, I just found another page showing WRX 1st as 3.454 and final drive as 3.900. Multiplied out that's 13.4706 so that should be noticably taller than the STi 1st gear.
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-19-2005 03:08 PM |
I think the WRX "could" stand a chance in DS with the additional .5 in displacement AND if it had some more camber up front. It would take a while to get used to it though. The ITR is sooo freakin nimble compared to the Scooby.
Dave
Dave
| trhoppe | 05-19-2005 03:14 PM |
[QUOTE=Scoobie Doogie]I think the WRX "could" stand a chance in DS with the additional .5 in displacement AND if it had some more camber up front. It would take a while to get used to it though. The ITR is sooo freakin nimble compared to the Scooby.
Dave[/QUOTE]
At Pros, the WRX can win DS right now. At tours its close, but driven well I think it could win in current form. With another 0.5 liter it would be WAY better as it would pull out of corners WAY faster which is the #1 thing it lacks right now.
-Tom
Dave[/QUOTE]
At Pros, the WRX can win DS right now. At tours its close, but driven well I think it could win in current form. With another 0.5 liter it would be WAY better as it would pull out of corners WAY faster which is the #1 thing it lacks right now.
-Tom
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-19-2005 07:22 PM |
I want to drive one when they come out with the 2.5T, may have to pick one up then. I ran some decent times in my 02 WRX when I was running it. I think with the 2.5 we could run 245's and not worry so much about the gearing. Of course the 215/40's with 250lb/ft of torque could be fun.
Dave
Dave
| ChrisDP | 05-20-2005 12:37 AM |
I agree with Tom... I think an '04/05 should be a stronger DS car than the '02/03, and the newer car with developed shocks would do some damage IF it weren't so darn expensive to keep tires on the car.
| buzz313th | 05-20-2005 02:00 AM |
Assuming it stays in DS.. with the upgraded Displacement. It's almost definate it will goto STU..
| trhoppe | 05-20-2005 09:59 AM |
DS != ST*
-Tom
-Tom
| makofoto | 05-20-2005 01:46 PM |
245's ... gearing ? I run 245/40/17's ... no problem with my WRX. 1/4" shorter then a 225/45/17 ...
| Scoobie Doogie | 05-20-2005 03:19 PM |
[QUOTE=makofoto]245's ... gearing ? I run 245/40/17's ... no problem with my WRX. 1/4" shorter then a 225/45/17 ...[/QUOTE]
We were talking for DS. 225's killz the gearing on the WRX 245's more so due to the taller sidewall. That is why we ran the 215's in DS. With the 2.5 the car would have less of an issue building power.
Dave
We were talking for DS. 225's killz the gearing on the WRX 245's more so due to the taller sidewall. That is why we ran the 215's in DS. With the 2.5 the car would have less of an issue building power.
Dave
| makofoto | 05-20-2005 04:09 PM |
245/16's ... really ... which profile ?
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