| stillspoolin30 | 04-03-2006 08:02 PM |
Anyone Know How To Blue Steel?
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I am looking to blue the tip of my stainless steel 120mm tip. Has Anyone done this before or know how to do this? Here are some pics of what i want to do
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/mxmechanic125r/sf4-lrg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/mxmechanic125r/632168724000937500_0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/mxmechanic125r/sf4-lrg.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/mxmechanic125r/632168724000937500_0.jpg[/IMG]
| XanTium | 04-03-2006 08:15 PM |
blow torch
| Beebs99 | 04-03-2006 08:17 PM |
That Invidia is tintanium IIRC...
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG]
| stillspoolin30 | 04-03-2006 08:21 PM |
blow torch doesnt work and it doesnt matter if is ti or stainless i have seen it done on both materials.
| David Medina | 04-03-2006 08:26 PM |
i just use an acetylene torch. just dont use the air spray or you will start cutting.
you can blue just about anything.
edit- make sure you grind it down to where its clean and shiny. either a grinding disc, or a sanding (flap) disc.
you can blue just about anything.
edit- make sure you grind it down to where its clean and shiny. either a grinding disc, or a sanding (flap) disc.
| stillspoolin30 | 04-03-2006 08:27 PM |
i used acetylene and it just turned a cameleon color very light and ugly. what do u mean by air ???
| vale2489 | 04-03-2006 08:52 PM |
Do you mean changing the color via the chemical process of blueing (i.e. the type gunsmiths do)...or do you want to just change the color to blue?
| stillspoolin30 | 04-03-2006 08:56 PM |
I want to change it so it looks all deep blue like a heat treated blue shown in the pics above. i have heard of chemically heating metal using caustic soda solution at 300 degrees. Do you know another way?
| REX8 | 04-03-2006 09:00 PM |
[QUOTE=Beebs99]
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Thats what I thought he meant when I read the title... :lol:
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Thats what I thought he meant when I read the title... :lol:
| vale2489 | 04-03-2006 09:02 PM |
The only other way that I could think of would be a cold blue...but I don't think it would come out that light and wouldn't be that durable. The process you mentioned would be a better way to go but then again I'm not sure you're gonna get the color you want. If you go easy with a torch it should come out ok
| Needles | 04-03-2006 09:28 PM |
[QUOTE=Beebs99]That Invidia is tintanium IIRC...
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
BLUE STEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :banana:
[IMG]http://www.gentheoryrubbish.com/archives/images/steel%20blue.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
BLUE STEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :banana:
| Uncle Scotty | 04-03-2006 09:35 PM |
....deeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwd...
.[url]http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/c9/11/8482452ZSAN9521-resized200.jpg[/url]
.[url]http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/c9/11/8482452ZSAN9521-resized200.jpg[/url]
| stillspoolin30 | 04-03-2006 09:45 PM |
:rolleyes: :o :rolleyes:
| 99subi | 04-03-2006 09:46 PM |
id just buy a new exhuast rather then possibly ruin the one you have
| Trigun001 | 04-03-2006 10:14 PM |
There is a chemical process called anodizing metal its done by (i believe youll have to check me on this one) taking your piece of metal and putting it into ammonium then running a current through the metal. Do it in a ventiallated area though as ammonia vapor will make u pass out if you breath it too long. By all means it works One thing though it might give u a rainbow tip. Also dont take my word for it u have to do some reasearch im just going by what I know about knives (kershaw makes a nice anodized knife) using this process. Ne way dont know if this is the best solution ne way.
| Trigun001 | 04-03-2006 10:23 PM |
ok I just reasearched a bit because i interested myself. :D what it is is putting a metal in an acidic solution and running a current through it (ammonium is acidic). What it does is oxidize the metal (much like super heating metal does) leaving a nice strong coat of oxidized metal over you piece of metal. Depending on your acid type and your voltage you can have a variety of different colors. Apart from that it strengthens the metal. Ive never tried it but sounds like it could be fun and usefull. maybe try it with some scrap steell first if your interested. you could grab some acids and a DC toy train transformer and spend a day playin with voltage acids and metal. :lol:
| Beebs99 | 04-03-2006 10:42 PM |
[QUOTE=Trigun001]ok I just reasearched a bit because i interested myself. :D what it is is putting a metal in an acidic solution and running a current through it (ammonium is acidic). What it does is oxidize the metal (much like super heating metal does) leaving a nice strong coat of oxidized metal over you piece of metal. Depending on your acid type and your voltage you can have a variety of different colors. Apart from that it strengthens the metal. Ive never tried it but sounds like it could be fun and usefull. maybe try it with some scrap steell first if your interested. you could grab some acids and a DC toy train transformer and spend a day playin with voltage acids and metal. :lol:[/QUOTE]
If you have a piece of galvanized steel, the outside is already coated in Zn0.
If you have a piece of galvanized steel, the outside is already coated in Zn0.
| 05wrxmatt | 04-03-2006 10:44 PM |
If you are trying to anodize titanium, you can use diluted simple green, and about 50 volts dc to get a nice blue color. This only works on Ti, it will not work on steel.
Here is what I used.
[url]http://mrtitanium.com/anodizing.html[/url]
Here is what I used.
[url]http://mrtitanium.com/anodizing.html[/url]
| stillspoolin30 | 04-04-2006 09:15 AM |
thank you for that information
| stillspoolin30 | 04-04-2006 09:19 AM |
also i have an HKS carbon/ti but the tip doesnt feel like ti it feels like stainless???
| BadTrip | 04-04-2006 11:06 AM |
[QUOTE=Trigun001]There is a chemical process called anodizing metal its done by (i believe youll have to check me on this one) taking your piece of metal and putting it into ammonium then running a current through the metal. Do it in a ventiallated area though as ammonia vapor will make u pass out if you breath it too long. By all means it works One thing though it might give u a rainbow tip. Also dont take my word for it u have to do some reasearch im just going by what I know about knives (kershaw makes a nice anodized knife) using this process. Ne way dont know if this is the best solution ne way.[/QUOTE]
I don't think this matters, but it may, if any of you try this DIY. Ammonium is a base, not an acid. Only in the presence of a stronger base would it act as an acid. I'm not arguing, just clarifying, in case it matters.
I don't think this matters, but it may, if any of you try this DIY. Ammonium is a base, not an acid. Only in the presence of a stronger base would it act as an acid. I'm not arguing, just clarifying, in case it matters.
| LyveWRX | 04-04-2006 11:23 AM |
The blue color on metals as a result of both anodizing and heat bluing is a result of very thin layers of oxide. as the time spent in either the bluing or anodizing will increase the thickness changing the wavelengths of light that are refracted/reflected/diffracted. Some anodizing (particularly aluminium alloys) is dyed to get the particular color desired.
Stainless is hard to get blue, you can get a nice purple bronze around 900F for 1hr. If the stainless is 304 or 316 you could get sensitization at those temps though.
at around 1100F-1200F for a brief time might work, but if you want even color you have to get even heat.
Caustic soda at 300f is dangerous.
As BadTrip says ammonia hydroxide (aNH3*bH2O) is basic. And is dangerous to put current into. (you get Ammonia Gas and oxegen and some hydrogen from the reaction.)
Stainless is hard to get blue, you can get a nice purple bronze around 900F for 1hr. If the stainless is 304 or 316 you could get sensitization at those temps though.
at around 1100F-1200F for a brief time might work, but if you want even color you have to get even heat.
Caustic soda at 300f is dangerous.
As BadTrip says ammonia hydroxide (aNH3*bH2O) is basic. And is dangerous to put current into. (you get Ammonia Gas and oxegen and some hydrogen from the reaction.)
| Trigun001 | 04-04-2006 11:23 AM |
[QUOTE=BadTrip]I don't think this matters, but it may, if any of you try this DIY. Ammonium is a base, not an acid. Only in the presence of a stronger base would it act as an acid. I'm not arguing, just clarifying, in case it matters.[/QUOTE]
actually ammonium is an acid ammonia is a base
NH4+ = ammonium
NH4+ + H2O <---> NH3 + H3O+
H3O+ is an acid
ph is about 5-6
NH3 = Ammonia
NH3 + H2O <----> NH4+ + OH-
OH- (hydroxide) is a base
PH 8.3
actually ammonium is an acid ammonia is a base
NH4+ = ammonium
NH4+ + H2O <---> NH3 + H3O+
H3O+ is an acid
ph is about 5-6
NH3 = Ammonia
NH3 + H2O <----> NH4+ + OH-
OH- (hydroxide) is a base
PH 8.3
| LyveWRX | 04-04-2006 11:26 AM |
Thanks Trigun001 --- I'm more of a metals guy. (At least I got the ionics right)
| gloves | 04-04-2006 11:31 AM |
rofl some very smart people in chem class now...IMO i dont think you should try it at all...sounds like you could end up burnt or dead if you do it wrong :P
| trbo-4 | 04-04-2006 11:32 AM |
Wow and I thought us computer nerds were bad. :lol: You metal nerds are way worse.
| Trigun001 | 04-04-2006 06:34 PM |
HAHAHA nahh im in my second year of chem right now soo i figured Id lend a hand... btw as I b4 mentioned you definatly need to do this in a well ventillated area because youll get allot of ammonia vapor as the current heats the ammonium and makes it vaporize. besides that its not soo bad. you could use any kind of acid really even lemon juic or vinegar but i dont know the colors with those acids so test it on a piece of metal first.
| stillspoolin30 | 04-04-2006 06:39 PM |
hmmm still have no clue were to begin??? lol
| Trigun001 | 04-04-2006 06:45 PM |
have u tryed Mapp gas in your torch? it burns hotter than propane. If propane is a blue bottle there is a red bottle and a yellow one.. the yellow one (mapp gas) is hottests.. check your local hardware store.
| BadTrip | 04-06-2006 02:55 PM |
[QUOTE=Trigun001]actually ammonium is an acid ammonia is a base
NH4+ = ammonium
NH4+ + H2O <---> NH3 + H3O+
H3O+ is an acid
ph is about 5-6
NH3 = Ammonia
NH3 + H2O <----> NH4+ + OH-
OH- (hydroxide) is a base
PH 8.3[/QUOTE]
True. I stand corrected.
The ammonium ion can act as a very weak acid in the sense that it can protonate a stronger base using any one of its hydrogen ( H ) atoms and convert back to ammonia. This means that the ammonium ion is a conjugate acid of the base ammonia. In a solution, the degree to which ammonia forms the ammonium ion depends on the pH of the solution.
Ammonium cations resemble alkali metal ions like Na+ or K+ and can be found in salts such as ammonium bicarbonate, ammonium chloride, and ammonium nitrate.
The ammonium ion behaves somewhat like an alkali metal ion
NH4+ = ammonium
NH4+ + H2O <---> NH3 + H3O+
H3O+ is an acid
ph is about 5-6
NH3 = Ammonia
NH3 + H2O <----> NH4+ + OH-
OH- (hydroxide) is a base
PH 8.3[/QUOTE]
True. I stand corrected.
The ammonium ion can act as a very weak acid in the sense that it can protonate a stronger base using any one of its hydrogen ( H ) atoms and convert back to ammonia. This means that the ammonium ion is a conjugate acid of the base ammonia. In a solution, the degree to which ammonia forms the ammonium ion depends on the pH of the solution.
Ammonium cations resemble alkali metal ions like Na+ or K+ and can be found in salts such as ammonium bicarbonate, ammonium chloride, and ammonium nitrate.
The ammonium ion behaves somewhat like an alkali metal ion
| Trigun001 | 04-06-2006 08:07 PM |
[QUOTE=BadTrip]True. I stand corrected.
The ammonium ion can act as a very weak acid in the sense that it can protonate a stronger base using any one of its hydrogen ( H ) atoms and convert back to ammonia. This means that the ammonium ion is a conjugate acid of the base ammonia. In a solution, the degree to which ammonia forms the ammonium ion depends on the pH of the solution.
Ammonium cations resemble alkali metal ions like Na+ or K+ and can be found in salts such as ammonium bicarbonate, ammonium chloride, and ammonium nitrate.
The ammonium ion behaves somewhat like an alkali metal ion[/QUOTE]
You are right for the most part but just some small details. ammonium/ammonia only slightly behaves like an alkali metal because in many cases it forms a Ksp or a precipitate while alkali metals will always dissolve completly in water. Also when those above ions mentioned are mixed with the conjugate base NH3 a buffer is formed which ranges on the basic side in almost every standard case. Also when you mentioned the protonation of ammonium on a stronger base the effect is insignificant because the concentration of H+ or OH- that comes from ammonium is exponentially lower than the conncentrations that come from a strong acid or base which make the concentration formed by the ammonium/ammonia almost insignificant.
The ammonium ion can act as a very weak acid in the sense that it can protonate a stronger base using any one of its hydrogen ( H ) atoms and convert back to ammonia. This means that the ammonium ion is a conjugate acid of the base ammonia. In a solution, the degree to which ammonia forms the ammonium ion depends on the pH of the solution.
Ammonium cations resemble alkali metal ions like Na+ or K+ and can be found in salts such as ammonium bicarbonate, ammonium chloride, and ammonium nitrate.
The ammonium ion behaves somewhat like an alkali metal ion[/QUOTE]
You are right for the most part but just some small details. ammonium/ammonia only slightly behaves like an alkali metal because in many cases it forms a Ksp or a precipitate while alkali metals will always dissolve completly in water. Also when those above ions mentioned are mixed with the conjugate base NH3 a buffer is formed which ranges on the basic side in almost every standard case. Also when you mentioned the protonation of ammonium on a stronger base the effect is insignificant because the concentration of H+ or OH- that comes from ammonium is exponentially lower than the conncentrations that come from a strong acid or base which make the concentration formed by the ammonium/ammonia almost insignificant.
| DrD | 04-06-2006 10:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Trigun001]ok I just reasearched a bit because i interested myself. :D what it is is putting a metal in an acidic solution and running a current through it (ammonium is acidic). What it does is oxidize the metal (much like super heating metal does) leaving a nice strong coat of oxidized metal over you piece of metal. Depending on your acid type and your voltage you can have a variety of different colors. Apart from that it strengthens the metal. Ive never tried it but sounds like it could be fun and usefull. maybe try it with some scrap steell first if your interested. you could grab some acids and a DC toy train transformer and spend a day playin with voltage acids and metal. :lol:[/QUOTE]
ok... so anodizing generally referrs to the treatment you do on aluminum - the oxide itself is uncolored (white if you get it thick enough) but porous so it readily takes a dye (which is why it's a popular finish) - it also provides improved corrosion performance - it's not really going to make a huge difference from a strength point of view in most applications.
You can't anodize stainless steel - apply a large voltage to stainless in an acidic solution and it goes bye-bye (plus you'll generate lots of hydrogen and oxygen gas, which is cool)
what ammonium are you referring to? that's an ion - a commonly used form is ammonium hydroxide, which is alkaline.
There may be chemical treatments to get you the blue surface, but anodizing (an electrochemical process - you have to drive it) is not one of them.
ok... so anodizing generally referrs to the treatment you do on aluminum - the oxide itself is uncolored (white if you get it thick enough) but porous so it readily takes a dye (which is why it's a popular finish) - it also provides improved corrosion performance - it's not really going to make a huge difference from a strength point of view in most applications.
You can't anodize stainless steel - apply a large voltage to stainless in an acidic solution and it goes bye-bye (plus you'll generate lots of hydrogen and oxygen gas, which is cool)
what ammonium are you referring to? that's an ion - a commonly used form is ammonium hydroxide, which is alkaline.
There may be chemical treatments to get you the blue surface, but anodizing (an electrochemical process - you have to drive it) is not one of them.
| DrD | 04-06-2006 10:38 PM |
[QUOTE=Beebs99]If you have a piece of galvanized steel, the outside is already coated in Zn0.[/QUOTE]
galvanized steel is coated with zinc (metal) - it will have an oxide layer on it, but it's not particularly protective. The zinc is there as a sacrificial material to cathodically protect the steel should the zinc layer be breached.
galvanized steel is coated with zinc (metal) - it will have an oxide layer on it, but it's not particularly protective. The zinc is there as a sacrificial material to cathodically protect the steel should the zinc layer be breached.
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