| JOSHMAN | 08-13-2002 09:55 PM |
anyone use a harness instead of seatbelt?
I was thinking if anyone has installed them in there daily driver. If so anyone get rid of the factory belt?
3,4,or 5 point? I was just thinking of it today looking at a magazine. I wonder if people driving by would think you were a nut driving with one on:p
Just thinking out loud.
Josh
3,4,or 5 point? I was just thinking of it today looking at a magazine. I wonder if people driving by would think you were a nut driving with one on:p
Just thinking out loud.
Josh
| Daffy Duck | 08-13-2002 11:14 PM |
harness good
I drive hard so I need harness for regular street driving. But sometimes, I get lazy so I use the regular seatbelt.
| imprezawd | 08-14-2002 01:01 AM |
i use a Schroth ASM autoloc seat harness. I had a sparco 3pt ralle, but now with the inertia wheel and sensor for autoloc it is the safest belt and best belt on the market for street / track usage.. The buckels and straps are very adjustable..
TOO bad my car has a bad hesiatation problem from 4-5 k and it sucks!!!!!! But very cool.
TOO bad my car has a bad hesiatation problem from 4-5 k and it sucks!!!!!! But very cool.
| BOY | 08-14-2002 02:43 AM |
I run an RCI 5 point without the sub-belt (i.e. a 4 pt harness). I've gotten so used to it I use it all the time. Make sure you keep the factory belt in place or you're subject to some big fines.
| jimb | 08-14-2002 06:57 AM |
Sorry for the abuse of caps but.
DO NOT USE A HARNESS ON THE STREET
It is DANGEROUS. Contrary to what you may think, it is NOT safer than using a seat belt. It can put you in a position to be subjected to higher/more forces than you would have been if just wearing a seatbelt. Hell, not to mention you will look very funny wearing one. Don't do it, save it for the track or the cones.
jb
DO NOT USE A HARNESS ON THE STREET
It is DANGEROUS. Contrary to what you may think, it is NOT safer than using a seat belt. It can put you in a position to be subjected to higher/more forces than you would have been if just wearing a seatbelt. Hell, not to mention you will look very funny wearing one. Don't do it, save it for the track or the cones.
jb
| steve_d | 08-14-2002 07:13 AM |
I'll have to agree.
4 pt belts should be used for autocrossing, You need the submarine strap of a 5pt to keep from sliding out in an accident.
Think of it this way...if the car rolls, and you're strapped in, where are you going to go...
spend the money on a bumperlip...or a turbo...you can get them for 200 bucks all day long in the classifieds...
sjd
4 pt belts should be used for autocrossing, You need the submarine strap of a 5pt to keep from sliding out in an accident.
Think of it this way...if the car rolls, and you're strapped in, where are you going to go...
spend the money on a bumperlip...or a turbo...you can get them for 200 bucks all day long in the classifieds...
sjd
| 128d | 08-14-2002 12:16 PM |
I might be wrong but I do think there is a company that actualy made a racing harness that is D.O.T. approved.
| jesse370 | 08-14-2002 12:47 PM |
I'm sure there are some that are dot approved but I don't think they take into consideration that anti-sub and roll over issues.
| Layman | 08-14-2002 12:47 PM |
As others have said, a harness is not meant for street use. Unless you have a rollcage, it is downright dangerous to use a harness on the street. If you roll and your roof collapses, a normal seat belt will allow you to slide towards the interior of the car. A harness will keep you in place and the pressure of the collapsing roof will come down on your neck. Bad idea.
The mere fact that a question about a harness would be posted in the "Dress-Up & Style" forum is indicative that you shouldn't be using one. It isn't like a clear corner or a headlight mod - it's a safety mechanism. Big difference.
The mere fact that a question about a harness would be posted in the "Dress-Up & Style" forum is indicative that you shouldn't be using one. It isn't like a clear corner or a headlight mod - it's a safety mechanism. Big difference.
| MAD REX | 08-14-2002 12:48 PM |
I've heard, if you don't have a roll cage, don't get a harness.
Cause if you roll you'll crush your head :p
Cause if you roll you'll crush your head :p
| chsbla | 08-14-2002 01:21 PM |
Just to continue saying what all these guys were saying, DO NOT WEAR IT ON THE STREET W/O A ROLLCAGE
But on the other hand, DON'T USE A ROLL CAGE ON THE STREET, sure it may sound safer, till you get T-Boned and your head slams up agains tthe big metal pole next to your head. That equals gooey mess, and come on, the fire dept has enough on their hands so don't make them pick up your brains from teh street, its messy. Although, you could wear a helmet with a rollcage, make sure it is the proper rated Snell helemet, but then since you will be using everything right, the helmet limits your range of motion if you are straped in correctly, that you won't be able to check your blindspot, and will end up causing an accident. Why do you think nascar drivers are told where the other drivers are, because they can't turn their head to see. Plus if i ever saw you driving around with a helmet on, i would laugh!
<gets off soapbox>
late,
Chris
But on the other hand, DON'T USE A ROLL CAGE ON THE STREET, sure it may sound safer, till you get T-Boned and your head slams up agains tthe big metal pole next to your head. That equals gooey mess, and come on, the fire dept has enough on their hands so don't make them pick up your brains from teh street, its messy. Although, you could wear a helmet with a rollcage, make sure it is the proper rated Snell helemet, but then since you will be using everything right, the helmet limits your range of motion if you are straped in correctly, that you won't be able to check your blindspot, and will end up causing an accident. Why do you think nascar drivers are told where the other drivers are, because they can't turn their head to see. Plus if i ever saw you driving around with a helmet on, i would laugh!
<gets off soapbox>
late,
Chris
| Daffy Duck | 08-14-2002 01:33 PM |
Oh yeah?
Sorry for being dumb. Please don't attack me for asking this:
With the regular seatbelt, if my car rolls over, wouldn't my head bang the ceiling (or floor) and pile driver myself (and break my neck)?
Also, with the harness, if I have a frontal collision my face would be less likely to smack into the windshield or steering wheel. And if I have a rear collision, I would be less likely to have a whiplash.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
With the regular seatbelt, if my car rolls over, wouldn't my head bang the ceiling (or floor) and pile driver myself (and break my neck)?
Also, with the harness, if I have a frontal collision my face would be less likely to smack into the windshield or steering wheel. And if I have a rear collision, I would be less likely to have a whiplash.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
| Rebellion | 08-14-2002 01:42 PM |
you're wrong...
if you roll over, the sub belt will prevent you from moving toward the roof... your harness will not. While you may be correct on not smacking your face on the wheel... you have an airbag. As far as windshield... if you're wearing a belt at all you shouldn't come anywhere near the windshield.
A normal seatbelt is better suited to helping your body absorb impacts as well. a harness will lock you into place. racing does not involve many side impact or rear endings as driving on the street. It's mostly frontal accidents.
if you roll over, the sub belt will prevent you from moving toward the roof... your harness will not. While you may be correct on not smacking your face on the wheel... you have an airbag. As far as windshield... if you're wearing a belt at all you shouldn't come anywhere near the windshield.
A normal seatbelt is better suited to helping your body absorb impacts as well. a harness will lock you into place. racing does not involve many side impact or rear endings as driving on the street. It's mostly frontal accidents.
| 128d | 08-14-2002 04:24 PM |
Okay, I know it has been stated that a racing harness is worse than a standard seat belt especially in rollovers, but my question is why? If you rolled you car and your roof collapsed wouldn't that end in most likely a broken neck either way? As for the problem of the sub belt, why wouldn't this happen with our stock seat belts, they don't have sub belts?
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D
| 128d | 08-14-2002 04:24 PM |
Okay, I know it has been stated that a racing harness is worse than a standard seat belt especially in rollovers, but my question is why? If you rolled you car and your roof collapsed wouldn't that end in most likely a broken neck either way? As for the problem of the sub belt, why wouldn't this happen with our stock seat belts, they don't have sub belts?
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D
| MagicMT | 08-14-2002 04:33 PM |
A related question about seatbelts.. Why do we need airbags? The seatbelts will hold you in place so you won't hit the steering wheel anyway right? Probably a dumb question but I've always wondered about this.
| jesse370 | 08-14-2002 06:25 PM |
the reason normal belts don't have or need an anti sub is because they are one peice of material. On a harness each part that connects together is independent of each other. You can tighten or loosen the lap or shoulder portion of the stock belt and that is why I think that an anit sub isn't needed. And as for air bags, going from 10-20-30-40 to zero happens really quick in an accident and that energy needs to go somewhere. Every see the crash test videos the body moves towards the wheel. And as for why you can live through a roll over with a normal belt and you may die with a harness. In a harness your shoulders are held down against the seat. When you get in your car try to grab something from the drivers side door, you'll notice how your body slips away from the shoulder restraint. Thats why you won't get killed in a roll over.
| Layman | 08-14-2002 07:06 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 128d [/i]
[B]Okay, I know it has been stated that a racing harness is worse than a standard seat belt especially in rollovers, but my question is why? If you rolled you car and your roof collapsed wouldn't that end in most likely a broken neck either way? As for the problem of the sub belt, why wouldn't this happen with our stock seat belts, they don't have sub belts?
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
I already answered this in my earlier post. Go read it. ;)
[B]Okay, I know it has been stated that a racing harness is worse than a standard seat belt especially in rollovers, but my question is why? If you rolled you car and your roof collapsed wouldn't that end in most likely a broken neck either way? As for the problem of the sub belt, why wouldn't this happen with our stock seat belts, they don't have sub belts?
Yeah you can go off on me for this one, I know I am asking for it. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
I already answered this in my earlier post. Go read it. ;)
| JOSHMAN | 08-14-2002 07:21 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Layman [/i]
[B]As others have said, a harness is not meant for street use. Unless you have a rollcage, it is downright dangerous to use a harness on the street. If you roll and your roof collapses, a normal seat belt will allow you to slide towards the interior of the car. A harness will keep you in place and the pressure of the collapsing roof will come down on your neck. Bad idea.
The mere fact that a question about a harness would be posted in the "Dress-Up & Style" forum is indicative that you shouldn't be using one. It isn't like a clear corner or a headlight mod - it's a safety mechanism. Big difference. [/B][/QUOTE]
The mere fact I put it here is because I don't see a "safety" forum. Move it if you'd like.
Josh
[B]As others have said, a harness is not meant for street use. Unless you have a rollcage, it is downright dangerous to use a harness on the street. If you roll and your roof collapses, a normal seat belt will allow you to slide towards the interior of the car. A harness will keep you in place and the pressure of the collapsing roof will come down on your neck. Bad idea.
The mere fact that a question about a harness would be posted in the "Dress-Up & Style" forum is indicative that you shouldn't be using one. It isn't like a clear corner or a headlight mod - it's a safety mechanism. Big difference. [/B][/QUOTE]
The mere fact I put it here is because I don't see a "safety" forum. Move it if you'd like.
Josh
| Layman | 08-14-2002 07:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JOSHMAN [/i]
[B]
The mere fact I put it here is because I don't see a "safety" forum. Move it if you'd like.
Josh [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry. I wasn't trying to be a dick. I just don't think of seatbelts as dress-up.
Either way, I certainly can't move it. ;)
[B]
The mere fact I put it here is because I don't see a "safety" forum. Move it if you'd like.
Josh [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry. I wasn't trying to be a dick. I just don't think of seatbelts as dress-up.
Either way, I certainly can't move it. ;)
| imprezawd | 08-14-2002 10:43 PM |
Schroth is the only belt company that is DOT approved cause of the ASM control the inertia wheel and sensor it uses. I am just as movable in my seat belt as i am in my harness due to the inertia wheel. But i am sure our standard seat belt is safer but it is hard to fit my saftey belt buckle with my seats i have. I have it for my passengers but not me.
Richie
Richie
| aspera | 10-27-2002 02:56 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MAD REX [/i]
[B]I've heard, if you don't have a roll cage, don't get a harness.
Cause if you roll you'll crush your head :p [/B][/QUOTE]
That's funny because you got rid of all the extra words and just said the important words.
Stock seat belts seem to have some tricks up their sleeves. They let the driver or crash test dummy lean out of the way if the shiny side doesn't stay up. The seat belt is attached to the B-post, which might also collapse.
A harness mounted to the 'C' location will be too far away to be able to hold the shoulders down. One mounted to the 'D' and 'E' locations could compress the seat or spine. The seat might collapse into the passenger's back. OUCH! It might just lay down, thus promoting submarining.
The stock seatbelt is one continuous strap. If you lean forward the waist will tighten. This tightening prevents submarining.
A harness is like a pair of suspenders. If the shoulder straps get pulled, the belt will get pulled up in the middle.
OEMs want to take advantage of the safety strengths of harnesses, without the disadvantages. The latest thing I've seen was an X-belt. It was like having a regular seat belt over each shoulder, but was easy to get in and out of.
IMHO, the next big safety concern will be B-post head injuries. Ever watch those crashes on 20/20? BAM! back of the head hits the B-post every time.
[B]I've heard, if you don't have a roll cage, don't get a harness.
Cause if you roll you'll crush your head :p [/B][/QUOTE]
That's funny because you got rid of all the extra words and just said the important words.
Stock seat belts seem to have some tricks up their sleeves. They let the driver or crash test dummy lean out of the way if the shiny side doesn't stay up. The seat belt is attached to the B-post, which might also collapse.
A harness mounted to the 'C' location will be too far away to be able to hold the shoulders down. One mounted to the 'D' and 'E' locations could compress the seat or spine. The seat might collapse into the passenger's back. OUCH! It might just lay down, thus promoting submarining.
The stock seatbelt is one continuous strap. If you lean forward the waist will tighten. This tightening prevents submarining.
A harness is like a pair of suspenders. If the shoulder straps get pulled, the belt will get pulled up in the middle.
OEMs want to take advantage of the safety strengths of harnesses, without the disadvantages. The latest thing I've seen was an X-belt. It was like having a regular seat belt over each shoulder, but was easy to get in and out of.
IMHO, the next big safety concern will be B-post head injuries. Ever watch those crashes on 20/20? BAM! back of the head hits the B-post every time.
| aspera | 10-27-2002 04:05 AM |
1 Attachment(s)
criss cross X-type and harness type
| aspera | 10-27-2002 04:31 AM |
build your own criss cross belt
...so if you really want to take matters into your own hands, keep your OEM 3 point belt and add a few parts.
Add a harness bar (or roll cage) with a belt attached to it that goes over your right shoulder to a buckle that attaches to the stock mounting point for the left seat belt. This strap is basically just a simple waist belt. Make sure to use a strap that gives as much as the OEM one.
This might put too much stress on the middle of the harness bar if it is not braced. If it was sturdy, and an inertial reel was used, then it might work pretty well. Oh, you probably already have that reel if you removed the center one from the back seat.
IF* it worked:
*very few$, because you already have most of the parts (OEM quality parts too):)
*rollover duck-outta-da-way compatable
*improved side impact protection because that extra strap keeps you from head butting your passenger when you get T-boned
*improved upper torso protection becasue you have 2, count 'em 2, shoulders to absorb impact.
It might not work because:
*unproven, jerry rigged contraption
*seat belts not stretchy enough, which causes torso to decellerate too quickly in a crash, causing injury
*too lazy to 'CLICK' a second time
*shoulder straps act like scissors and cut off yer head! Happy Halloween!
Add a harness bar (or roll cage) with a belt attached to it that goes over your right shoulder to a buckle that attaches to the stock mounting point for the left seat belt. This strap is basically just a simple waist belt. Make sure to use a strap that gives as much as the OEM one.
This might put too much stress on the middle of the harness bar if it is not braced. If it was sturdy, and an inertial reel was used, then it might work pretty well. Oh, you probably already have that reel if you removed the center one from the back seat.
IF* it worked:
*very few$, because you already have most of the parts (OEM quality parts too):)
*rollover duck-outta-da-way compatable
*improved side impact protection because that extra strap keeps you from head butting your passenger when you get T-boned
*improved upper torso protection becasue you have 2, count 'em 2, shoulders to absorb impact.
It might not work because:
*unproven, jerry rigged contraption
*seat belts not stretchy enough, which causes torso to decellerate too quickly in a crash, causing injury
*too lazy to 'CLICK' a second time
*shoulder straps act like scissors and cut off yer head! Happy Halloween!
| Ti-REX | 10-28-2002 03:33 AM |
Hummm
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by aspera [/i]
[B]criss cross X-type and harness type [/B][/QUOTE]
I see you point but I don't see how you can achieve a "roll out of the way" with this set-up. In what way is it any different than a 4 point race harness ?
Please explain :confused: :confused: :confused:
[B]criss cross X-type and harness type [/B][/QUOTE]
I see you point but I don't see how you can achieve a "roll out of the way" with this set-up. In what way is it any different than a 4 point race harness ?
Please explain :confused: :confused: :confused:
| aspera | 10-28-2002 03:59 AM |
Yeah, it' kinda iffy.
IF the car flips upside down, and the belts lock up, then you probably can't lean forward or sideways enough to keep from getting crushed.
IF one or both of the belts aren't locked when the car is upside down, then you're OK. Doesn't Schroth use a sensor to tell if the vehicle has flipped?
IF the car flips upside down, and the belts lock up, then you probably can't lean forward or sideways enough to keep from getting crushed.
IF one or both of the belts aren't locked when the car is upside down, then you're OK. Doesn't Schroth use a sensor to tell if the vehicle has flipped?
| Gravel-Fun | 10-28-2002 07:25 AM |
Well, I have seen and read every post on this subject, even when I had another screen name. (hence the newbie). But, I am am not sure I agree. Isn't free speech great? Please try to keep an open mind when reading my post. Please keep in mind that these opinions may be with or without the cage. In addition, I have seen many, many wrecked vehicles. (old job)
1- They chalk the crash dummie's face before the tests. After the test, the airbag has a "photo" of that face on the bag. That's if they hit the bag. When is the factory seatbelt going to stop your forward movement? Maybe when the rescue squad arrives? When you get to the hospital? Also, that is a test of one type of collision. There are hundreds.
2- The point about being able to lay down or duck your head for a roll-over seems funny to me. A traffic accident starts, in less time than you can blink, all injuries are sustained. You won't duck, lean to avoid, write your grandma, or any other crap. You are a ragdoll in a 3000 pound blender. Arms, legs, torsos.....they all are can be flying around the cabin with factory seatbelts. It's over in an instant. I cannot remember the last non-SUV rollover I repaired.
3- I have seen teeth and teeth marks in steering wheels where airbags have failed to fire. It happens a hell of alot more than you know. Bet they wish they had a harness on.
4- As for rollcages in cars, I will admit I do not race professionally. I did, however, fix very hard hit cars for 15 years. If you get "T-boned" in the drivers door, the severity of your injuries will be determined by the integrity of the vehicle. (Want to get hit in a Volvo or a Metro? The side impact is, I believe, the most devastating to its occupants. The question then becomes....Do I want my head to hit the B-pillar frame that has RAZOR SHARP pinch-weld edges under plastic trim, Or do I want to hit my head on a cage covered in quality rollcage foam. Flip a coin. I think you will fare no better, no worse. I will mention one thing though, no one ever disputes the increased strength of a race car with a cage. This will help in many other directional impacts. I personally think, if you get hit really hard in the drivers door, It will be bad. Better or worse with a rollcage.......unproven.
5- I have to go to work
Gravel
1- They chalk the crash dummie's face before the tests. After the test, the airbag has a "photo" of that face on the bag. That's if they hit the bag. When is the factory seatbelt going to stop your forward movement? Maybe when the rescue squad arrives? When you get to the hospital? Also, that is a test of one type of collision. There are hundreds.
2- The point about being able to lay down or duck your head for a roll-over seems funny to me. A traffic accident starts, in less time than you can blink, all injuries are sustained. You won't duck, lean to avoid, write your grandma, or any other crap. You are a ragdoll in a 3000 pound blender. Arms, legs, torsos.....they all are can be flying around the cabin with factory seatbelts. It's over in an instant. I cannot remember the last non-SUV rollover I repaired.
3- I have seen teeth and teeth marks in steering wheels where airbags have failed to fire. It happens a hell of alot more than you know. Bet they wish they had a harness on.
4- As for rollcages in cars, I will admit I do not race professionally. I did, however, fix very hard hit cars for 15 years. If you get "T-boned" in the drivers door, the severity of your injuries will be determined by the integrity of the vehicle. (Want to get hit in a Volvo or a Metro? The side impact is, I believe, the most devastating to its occupants. The question then becomes....Do I want my head to hit the B-pillar frame that has RAZOR SHARP pinch-weld edges under plastic trim, Or do I want to hit my head on a cage covered in quality rollcage foam. Flip a coin. I think you will fare no better, no worse. I will mention one thing though, no one ever disputes the increased strength of a race car with a cage. This will help in many other directional impacts. I personally think, if you get hit really hard in the drivers door, It will be bad. Better or worse with a rollcage.......unproven.
5- I have to go to work
Gravel
| aspera | 10-28-2002 11:56 PM |
I mostly agree.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Gravel-Fun [/i]
[B]Well, I have seen and read every post on this subject, even when I had another screen name. (hence the newbie). But, I am am not sure I agree. Isn't free speech great? Please try to keep an open mind when reading my post. Please keep in mind that these opinions may be with or without the cage. In addition, I have seen many, many wrecked vehicles. (old job)
1- They chalk the crash dummie's face before the tests. After the test, the airbag has a "photo" of that face on the bag. That's if they hit the bag. When is the factory seatbelt going to stop your forward movement? Maybe when the rescue squad arrives? When you get to the hospital? Also, that is a test of one type of collision. There are hundreds.
2- The point about being able to lay down or duck your head for a roll-over seems funny to me. A traffic accident starts, in less time than you can blink, all injuries are sustained. You won't duck, lean to avoid, write your grandma, or any other crap. You are a ragdoll in a 3000 pound blender. Arms, legs, torsos.....they all are can be flying around the cabin with factory seatbelts. It's over in an instant. I cannot remember the last non-SUV rollover I repaired.
3- I have seen teeth and teeth marks in steering wheels where airbags have failed to fire. It happens a hell of alot more than you know. Bet they wish they had a harness on.
4- As for rollcages in cars, I will admit I do not race professionally. I did, however, fix very hard hit cars for 15 years. If you get "T-boned" in the drivers door, the severity of your injuries will be determined by the integrity of the vehicle. (Want to get hit in a Volvo or a Metro? The side impact is, I believe, the most devastating to its occupants. The question then becomes....Do I want my head to hit the B-pillar frame that has RAZOR SHARP pinch-weld edges under plastic trim, Or do I want to hit my head on a cage covered in quality rollcage foam. Flip a coin. I think you will fare no better, no worse. I will mention one thing though, no one ever disputes the increased strength of a race car with a cage. This will help in many other directional impacts. I personally think, if you get hit really hard in the drivers door, It will be bad. Better or worse with a rollcage.......unproven.
5- I have to go to work
Gravel [/B][/QUOTE]
1. I think the factory seatbelts are supposed to stretch so that the body uses up all of the available room to decelerate. This makes for the most gradual deceleration possible.
2. I guess a better way of saying that a person could duck out of the way would be to say that they could be shoved out of the way. That's why I mentioned that OEM seatbelts are attached to the B-post. If it collapses, then you get some extra slack in the seat belt. Some rollovers, however, do happen rather slowly. I've heard of people pulling the recline lever on the seat so that it leans back.
3. That's spooky. Happy Halloween. Drive safely!
4. You're right. It seems like a trade off. The roll cage will be closer to your head, but hopefully softer to hit if it's padded. It would be about as soft as getting hit in the head with a padded baseball bat. OUCH!:) The frameless window that Subarus have would likely be the most forgiving surface to strike.
The X brace would surely be an improvement. It might give you just enough added strength to save you in some condidtions. The lateral bars (like the roof bars or a harness bar) of a rollcage would also transfer some crash energy.
[B]Well, I have seen and read every post on this subject, even when I had another screen name. (hence the newbie). But, I am am not sure I agree. Isn't free speech great? Please try to keep an open mind when reading my post. Please keep in mind that these opinions may be with or without the cage. In addition, I have seen many, many wrecked vehicles. (old job)
1- They chalk the crash dummie's face before the tests. After the test, the airbag has a "photo" of that face on the bag. That's if they hit the bag. When is the factory seatbelt going to stop your forward movement? Maybe when the rescue squad arrives? When you get to the hospital? Also, that is a test of one type of collision. There are hundreds.
2- The point about being able to lay down or duck your head for a roll-over seems funny to me. A traffic accident starts, in less time than you can blink, all injuries are sustained. You won't duck, lean to avoid, write your grandma, or any other crap. You are a ragdoll in a 3000 pound blender. Arms, legs, torsos.....they all are can be flying around the cabin with factory seatbelts. It's over in an instant. I cannot remember the last non-SUV rollover I repaired.
3- I have seen teeth and teeth marks in steering wheels where airbags have failed to fire. It happens a hell of alot more than you know. Bet they wish they had a harness on.
4- As for rollcages in cars, I will admit I do not race professionally. I did, however, fix very hard hit cars for 15 years. If you get "T-boned" in the drivers door, the severity of your injuries will be determined by the integrity of the vehicle. (Want to get hit in a Volvo or a Metro? The side impact is, I believe, the most devastating to its occupants. The question then becomes....Do I want my head to hit the B-pillar frame that has RAZOR SHARP pinch-weld edges under plastic trim, Or do I want to hit my head on a cage covered in quality rollcage foam. Flip a coin. I think you will fare no better, no worse. I will mention one thing though, no one ever disputes the increased strength of a race car with a cage. This will help in many other directional impacts. I personally think, if you get hit really hard in the drivers door, It will be bad. Better or worse with a rollcage.......unproven.
5- I have to go to work
Gravel [/B][/QUOTE]
1. I think the factory seatbelts are supposed to stretch so that the body uses up all of the available room to decelerate. This makes for the most gradual deceleration possible.
2. I guess a better way of saying that a person could duck out of the way would be to say that they could be shoved out of the way. That's why I mentioned that OEM seatbelts are attached to the B-post. If it collapses, then you get some extra slack in the seat belt. Some rollovers, however, do happen rather slowly. I've heard of people pulling the recline lever on the seat so that it leans back.
3. That's spooky. Happy Halloween. Drive safely!
4. You're right. It seems like a trade off. The roll cage will be closer to your head, but hopefully softer to hit if it's padded. It would be about as soft as getting hit in the head with a padded baseball bat. OUCH!:) The frameless window that Subarus have would likely be the most forgiving surface to strike.
The X brace would surely be an improvement. It might give you just enough added strength to save you in some condidtions. The lateral bars (like the roof bars or a harness bar) of a rollcage would also transfer some crash energy.
| Eric Sommer | 10-29-2002 11:26 AM |
i have put a...
1 Attachment(s)
Harness bar into my car and have the 5 points on that, but it allowed me to use the OEM Seat belts. Actually i have not even used the harnesses yet, but plan to in a couple of weeks when i go for track day, cuz with the OEM belts i was sliding around in my car way to much, so i will feel good to stay held down in the car on th corners. I will try to posta pic of the bar and stuff.
| Eric Sommer | 10-29-2002 11:28 AM |
i like this bar...
1 Attachment(s)
cuz it does allow you to keep the seatbelts, but you cannot adjust then anymore after the bar is in, onthe height, but that is ok, cuz i am a short enough guy.
| ScreaminFast | 10-29-2002 11:53 AM |
Eric,
can you tell me a little more about the bar, etc.....like how much was it? where you got it? install?
I autocross alot, and I like to autocross my car (even tho my fiancee doesn't like it :p)
but let me know...thanks!!
can you tell me a little more about the bar, etc.....like how much was it? where you got it? install?
I autocross alot, and I like to autocross my car (even tho my fiancee doesn't like it :p)
but let me know...thanks!!
| dwx | 10-29-2002 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ScreaminFast [/i]
[B]Eric,
can you tell me a little more about the bar, etc.....like how much was it? where you got it? install?
I autocross alot, and I like to autocross my car (even tho my fiancee doesn't like it :p)
but let me know...thanks!! [/B][/QUOTE]
That's the harness bar from speedware motorsports. You can find info on it at [url]www.speedwaremotorsports.com,[/url] $399. I've seen one of these in person in a WRX and they are very nicely constructed. If you do alot of autox then it might be a worthwhile investment. It may stiffen the car up a bit and works very well for what it is. If you are doing alot of track stuff as well it's probably better to go with the rollbar, as it will help to protect you in a rollover situation whereas the harness bar will probably make it less safe. Of course with either the passengers in the rear are at more risk, and the harness bar is more easily removable than the rollbar. Maybe I'll just get a cage welded in and call it a day and buy something else to daily drive. :)
Phil
[B]Eric,
can you tell me a little more about the bar, etc.....like how much was it? where you got it? install?
I autocross alot, and I like to autocross my car (even tho my fiancee doesn't like it :p)
but let me know...thanks!! [/B][/QUOTE]
That's the harness bar from speedware motorsports. You can find info on it at [url]www.speedwaremotorsports.com,[/url] $399. I've seen one of these in person in a WRX and they are very nicely constructed. If you do alot of autox then it might be a worthwhile investment. It may stiffen the car up a bit and works very well for what it is. If you are doing alot of track stuff as well it's probably better to go with the rollbar, as it will help to protect you in a rollover situation whereas the harness bar will probably make it less safe. Of course with either the passengers in the rear are at more risk, and the harness bar is more easily removable than the rollbar. Maybe I'll just get a cage welded in and call it a day and buy something else to daily drive. :)
Phil
| ScreaminFast | 10-29-2002 12:51 PM |
hahah, i was just thinking that if i got harness bar, i'd wrap it with foam and tell the back seat people to wear their seat belts...hehe
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