| JeffClark | 12-12-2004 04:24 AM |
Auto X STS questions for RS
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I'm fairly new to autocross (participated in my first several races this summer), and have started preparing my car for STS. So far, I have:
Short throw shifter
Cold air intake
rear adjustable sway bar
F&R strut tower braces (non triangulated)
Tires & wheels (Kumho Ecsta MX on SSR comp 17x7.5)
I'm now working on the suspension - a somewhat budget-based set-up. So far, I've gone with KYB AGX struts and Eibach Pro-kit springs (neither installed yet). At the same time, I'll be installing Goodridge SS brake lines and Axxis Ultimate pads all the way around. I did want to upgrade to WRX rotors & brackets, but as near as I can tell, that would put me straight into Street Modified - not cool (looking for verification here).
I'm considering Cusco camber plates. They would be legal in STS, I believe, but would they be very useful? Is it fairly easy to accurately adjust camber back and forth between street and track setups with these? I understand toe would have to be adjusted at the same time. I figure once you have settings for both, switching between them should be fairly easy. Do they change ride height relative to stock or Group N upper strut mounts?
Are Helix spherical bearing end links legal in STS? I would think not. But then, I don't know that my standard Whiteline (non HD) links would be legal either, given that the bushings in them do not have the same amount of bushing material between the bolt and link as the stock ones. ([url]http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_touring.html#17.8.%20SUSPENSION[/url]) 14.8-B
It's clear enough that headers are legal, and a cat-back exhaust is legal. However, is replacing the cat section with a high-flow one legal? For instance, would Cobb headers / cat section be legal? It would seem to me this falls under the territory of, "if it's not specifically allowed, then it's disallowed." Any thoughts? The exhaust system isn't terribly high on the priority list, since I think that suspension will have more impact on lap times.
Anyone else run in WWSCC (Western Washington - [url]www.wwscc.org[/url]) events? Is their STS categorization a little strange? I've only run at the Everett events (not Bremerton) but at least from their web site, they seem to categorize STS as a "pro" category or something... For the events I participated in this summer, I just ran DSP. Obviously I was pretty well out-gunned in that class. Though it doesn't seem like there will be too much practical difference between DSP and STS (for an RS anyway).
Short throw shifter
Cold air intake
rear adjustable sway bar
F&R strut tower braces (non triangulated)
Tires & wheels (Kumho Ecsta MX on SSR comp 17x7.5)
I'm now working on the suspension - a somewhat budget-based set-up. So far, I've gone with KYB AGX struts and Eibach Pro-kit springs (neither installed yet). At the same time, I'll be installing Goodridge SS brake lines and Axxis Ultimate pads all the way around. I did want to upgrade to WRX rotors & brackets, but as near as I can tell, that would put me straight into Street Modified - not cool (looking for verification here).
I'm considering Cusco camber plates. They would be legal in STS, I believe, but would they be very useful? Is it fairly easy to accurately adjust camber back and forth between street and track setups with these? I understand toe would have to be adjusted at the same time. I figure once you have settings for both, switching between them should be fairly easy. Do they change ride height relative to stock or Group N upper strut mounts?
Are Helix spherical bearing end links legal in STS? I would think not. But then, I don't know that my standard Whiteline (non HD) links would be legal either, given that the bushings in them do not have the same amount of bushing material between the bolt and link as the stock ones. ([url]http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_touring.html#17.8.%20SUSPENSION[/url]) 14.8-B
It's clear enough that headers are legal, and a cat-back exhaust is legal. However, is replacing the cat section with a high-flow one legal? For instance, would Cobb headers / cat section be legal? It would seem to me this falls under the territory of, "if it's not specifically allowed, then it's disallowed." Any thoughts? The exhaust system isn't terribly high on the priority list, since I think that suspension will have more impact on lap times.
Anyone else run in WWSCC (Western Washington - [url]www.wwscc.org[/url]) events? Is their STS categorization a little strange? I've only run at the Everett events (not Bremerton) but at least from their web site, they seem to categorize STS as a "pro" category or something... For the events I participated in this summer, I just ran DSP. Obviously I was pretty well out-gunned in that class. Though it doesn't seem like there will be too much practical difference between DSP and STS (for an RS anyway).
| Butt Dyno | 12-12-2004 10:22 AM |
I'll give this a go, disclaimer: I don't have an RS :)
I think after a good set of tires, suspension is where you should focus your $$. It seems like a lot of the best setups involve serious spring rates - even the standard rates for some of the popular coilover setups. If you are going to go budget somewhere, I think you should do it on the wheels, and use that $$ here. Also most coilover setups have adjustable camber in the front already which would mean not needing the Cusco plates. You might be able to get a used set of coilovers for what youd be paying new for the setup you are looking at.
For camber plates, search for something like "cusco camber noltec caster plates" and read through a few threads. When I was buying plates I ended up with the Noltecs - it seemed like they could be set up better. I then decided to go with a set of JIC's and never installed the plates so YMMV.
Endlinks - I think endlinks are pretty much open, can't speak to the specifics.
As to the header, check the sticky thread in the forum. I'm certain there is an answer there.
Good luck,
john
I think after a good set of tires, suspension is where you should focus your $$. It seems like a lot of the best setups involve serious spring rates - even the standard rates for some of the popular coilover setups. If you are going to go budget somewhere, I think you should do it on the wheels, and use that $$ here. Also most coilover setups have adjustable camber in the front already which would mean not needing the Cusco plates. You might be able to get a used set of coilovers for what youd be paying new for the setup you are looking at.
For camber plates, search for something like "cusco camber noltec caster plates" and read through a few threads. When I was buying plates I ended up with the Noltecs - it seemed like they could be set up better. I then decided to go with a set of JIC's and never installed the plates so YMMV.
Endlinks - I think endlinks are pretty much open, can't speak to the specifics.
As to the header, check the sticky thread in the forum. I'm certain there is an answer there.
Good luck,
john
| adhowe70 | 12-12-2004 11:21 AM |
Jeff,
Camber plates are your friend. Its the only way you're going to make the car rotate appropriately. Spring rates should be high if you want to be competitive. 300+ all around and I've seen substantially stiffer than that. Don't forget the stiff as piss front sway bar, too.
WWSCC... Pro class is an indexed class for SCCA National classes. The area's heavy hitters play here. I'd say "people like me" but I've only trophied once in the Pro class up there... after 3 years of running it! I *think* your best bet would be to run in a street tire class with them. Maybe they're adding STS (or their equivalent) to their normal list of classes. Definitely make the trip for the NWR events in Bremerton. Its worth it. And I might even be there!
Andy H.
Camber plates are your friend. Its the only way you're going to make the car rotate appropriately. Spring rates should be high if you want to be competitive. 300+ all around and I've seen substantially stiffer than that. Don't forget the stiff as piss front sway bar, too.
WWSCC... Pro class is an indexed class for SCCA National classes. The area's heavy hitters play here. I'd say "people like me" but I've only trophied once in the Pro class up there... after 3 years of running it! I *think* your best bet would be to run in a street tire class with them. Maybe they're adding STS (or their equivalent) to their normal list of classes. Definitely make the trip for the NWR events in Bremerton. Its worth it. And I might even be there!
Andy H.
| dave bruener | 12-12-2004 01:54 PM |
Go with the castor/camber plates. I think your AGX/eiback set up should be good. It is not the "ulitmate" set up but for a budget set up it is good. Sway bars and end links are open.
With the header question--you must retain a cat and it must be with in 6" of where the original cat is placed.
As for brake upgrades, the stock brakes with good pads and the SS lines are adequate.
I had an almost identicle set up on my 2000 RS. It was a ball.
With the header question--you must retain a cat and it must be with in 6" of where the original cat is placed.
As for brake upgrades, the stock brakes with good pads and the SS lines are adequate.
I had an almost identicle set up on my 2000 RS. It was a ball.
| mofugga | 12-12-2004 02:55 PM |
[QUOTE]you must retain a cat and it must be with in 6" of where the original cat is placed[/QUOTE]
i thought that was the STX rule? the RS has 2 cats & both must be kept as cats are off limits in STS.
jeff, i have a fairly similar set up on my RS, Koni's w/SPT springs & 215/45 azenis. camber plates are a must for the RS to be competitive. your whiteline endlinks are legal, endlinks are pretty open as long as they attach to the original position. if you have a big rear bar i'd suggest getting some heavy duty sway bar mounts as the ones from the factory on the RS are fairly wimpy & prone to snapage. depends on who you ask about a big front bar, only way to know is to buy one & see, can always sell it if it's not needed.
have fun with the axxis pads, they dust like mad :lol:
oh yeah, a good alignment is crucial!
i thought that was the STX rule? the RS has 2 cats & both must be kept as cats are off limits in STS.
jeff, i have a fairly similar set up on my RS, Koni's w/SPT springs & 215/45 azenis. camber plates are a must for the RS to be competitive. your whiteline endlinks are legal, endlinks are pretty open as long as they attach to the original position. if you have a big rear bar i'd suggest getting some heavy duty sway bar mounts as the ones from the factory on the RS are fairly wimpy & prone to snapage. depends on who you ask about a big front bar, only way to know is to buy one & see, can always sell it if it's not needed.
have fun with the axxis pads, they dust like mad :lol:
oh yeah, a good alignment is crucial!
| JeffClark | 12-12-2004 05:24 PM |
Great info everyone, thanks!
So, what I'm hearing here is that even with the "meager" KYB/AGX setup I've got, the camber plates are worthwhile. I still haven't heard much about the difficulty of set-up on race day. Is it feasible to go from street settings to race settings in the parking lot before the race?
I already have the Eibach/KYB springs/struts - budget wise, they just made the most sense, given that I'm not quite so dedicated to the sport that I'm willing to completely give up comfortable street driving for insanely high spring rates. Once I get my skills to where I'm certain I'm making the most of the car with these new piece, THEN I'll think more seriously about the coilovers. The car REALLY isn't the limitation at this point, I'm sure, I just think it'll be fun to work on the car in the off season and the driver during the race season.
For tires and wheels, the 17" SSR's and Kumho's are what I'm sticking to until I decide that I'm so into the sport that I need better. I'd probably go 15" or 16" SSR's and substantially smaller than stock diameter tires at that point.
For the exhaust, what I'm hearing here is that I need to go with a set-up that uses the stock dual-cat cat-pipe? So, something like TWE headers, and any Cat-back exhaust would be legal, but anything that messes with those cats is illegal?
Thanks!
So, what I'm hearing here is that even with the "meager" KYB/AGX setup I've got, the camber plates are worthwhile. I still haven't heard much about the difficulty of set-up on race day. Is it feasible to go from street settings to race settings in the parking lot before the race?
I already have the Eibach/KYB springs/struts - budget wise, they just made the most sense, given that I'm not quite so dedicated to the sport that I'm willing to completely give up comfortable street driving for insanely high spring rates. Once I get my skills to where I'm certain I'm making the most of the car with these new piece, THEN I'll think more seriously about the coilovers. The car REALLY isn't the limitation at this point, I'm sure, I just think it'll be fun to work on the car in the off season and the driver during the race season.
For tires and wheels, the 17" SSR's and Kumho's are what I'm sticking to until I decide that I'm so into the sport that I need better. I'd probably go 15" or 16" SSR's and substantially smaller than stock diameter tires at that point.
For the exhaust, what I'm hearing here is that I need to go with a set-up that uses the stock dual-cat cat-pipe? So, something like TWE headers, and any Cat-back exhaust would be legal, but anything that messes with those cats is illegal?
Thanks!
| omahasubaru | 12-12-2004 05:25 PM |
You may want to read some threads on RS25.com it's likely to have easier to find specific STS 2.5 RS info
Camber plates would help, but you've got to know how to use them. A plate that also lets you dial in more caster work be ideal. You'd benifit a lot by going with some custom rate Ground Control's than with what you've currently got.
Alignment is the #1 thing since you've got good tires.
swaybar links are legal, but your money would be better spent somewhere else IMHO.
Header & catback replacement are legal.. can't touch the stock cat section.
Camber plates would help, but you've got to know how to use them. A plate that also lets you dial in more caster work be ideal. You'd benifit a lot by going with some custom rate Ground Control's than with what you've currently got.
Alignment is the #1 thing since you've got good tires.
swaybar links are legal, but your money would be better spent somewhere else IMHO.
Header & catback replacement are legal.. can't touch the stock cat section.
| Fred | 12-13-2004 10:02 AM |
Just FYI - I tried out the Eibach springs with AGXes, and liked the stock springs a LOT better than the Eibachs. The progressive rears were HORRIBLE for autox, and the fronts are not noticeably stiffer than the stocks. You should either stick with the stock springs, or get something that's not progressive.
| Fred | 12-13-2004 10:06 AM |
Oh, yeah - and I'm selling a bunch of stuff from my old STS 2.5RS, including a set of STi V5/RA springs & a ground control coilover kit.
I've tried a lot of different stuff over the past couple of years, and I ended up with a setup that was pretty close to what Corey Ridgick is running - so if you just want to set it up & forget about it, check out his setup page.
I've tried a lot of different stuff over the past couple of years, and I ended up with a setup that was pretty close to what Corey Ridgick is running - so if you just want to set it up & forget about it, check out his setup page.
| ratt_finkel | 12-13-2004 12:24 PM |
[QUOTE=omahasubaru]You may want to read some threads on RS25.com it's likely to have easier to find specific STS 2.5 RS info
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, we have a thread going on there right now about the ultimate setup.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, we have a thread going on there right now about the ultimate setup.
| JeffClark | 12-13-2004 03:24 PM |
Ugh...
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This is going to be a trick, because the Eibach springs were a gift. I was actually thinking they were virtually the same as the SPT springs (what I would have bought if it were me buying them). But according to ravensblade, they're pretty far from it. I'm pretty much resigned to returning/exchanging the springs now that I see what the rates are. Ground Controls might be an option (good with the AGX shocks?), but then it's a question of spring rates.
As I've said, I'm really NOT looking for the ULTIMATE STS setup. I just want something pretty good that I can be a little more competitive with, and have some fun. I had fun driving the car as-is (no springs/struts) in DSP this summer, and generally placed middle of the pack. I also enjoy driving the car on the street, and want to stick with a setup that is not a kidney-bruiser.
That said, any ideas on road/race compromising spring rates for Ground Controls, or should I stick with SPT? Or maybe buy Fred's V5's?
Will the Ground Controls work with cusco or other camber/castor plates?
As I've said, I'm really NOT looking for the ULTIMATE STS setup. I just want something pretty good that I can be a little more competitive with, and have some fun. I had fun driving the car as-is (no springs/struts) in DSP this summer, and generally placed middle of the pack. I also enjoy driving the car on the street, and want to stick with a setup that is not a kidney-bruiser.
That said, any ideas on road/race compromising spring rates for Ground Controls, or should I stick with SPT? Or maybe buy Fred's V5's?
Will the Ground Controls work with cusco or other camber/castor plates?
| Fred | 12-13-2004 04:27 PM |
They'll work with camber plates, but if you're not looking for the ultimate setup, just add "crash bolts" to the lower mounting holes in your front struts. That's what I did, and got 2.5� neg. camber. They're about 1/10 the price of camber plates, too.
The V5's/ KYB's were a nice setup when that's what I was using. Good for autox, track, rallyx, street, whatever. I like the Konis better for everything except rallyx, though.
The V5's/ KYB's were a nice setup when that's what I was using. Good for autox, track, rallyx, street, whatever. I like the Konis better for everything except rallyx, though.
| mofugga | 12-13-2004 09:46 PM |
buy fred's V5's & go from there, no need to jump into the ground controls when you're not sure how much you enjoy autox. plus $200 for springs is a good deal
| deuce.five | 12-16-2004 08:55 PM |
Since the cat section is off limits, I'm pretty sure the only legal headers for STS are the TWE, and Borla. All others relocate the cat, which is a no-no.
I'd get the swaybar endlinks,front and rear, it makes the car much more consistant, and solid at "the limit"
Caster is your friend :) Cusco camber plates for a WRX will fit, and give you caster also, as the slots will slant inward as well as towards the firewall, not just left and right.
More agressive brake pads will help also.
Your shocks are adequate, but those springs are soft, as others pointed out, not much more stiff than stock ones, you'd be better off selling them and getting something a little stiffer, ravensbade's web-site has some useful comparisons of spring rates.
Big bars, big shocks, big springs, not necessarily in that order.
Sorry, I'm being vague on purpose, as you're going to be racing me, I'm in your class/region.
2004 STS Northwest Regional Champ~ UNDEFEATED!! :devil:
Improvements planned for next year:more tire, more spring, more bar, more shock, header, race-seat, motor & tranny mounts, computer re-flash and maybe I'll even take the spare tire out for the first time!
See you next year.
I'd get the swaybar endlinks,front and rear, it makes the car much more consistant, and solid at "the limit"
Caster is your friend :) Cusco camber plates for a WRX will fit, and give you caster also, as the slots will slant inward as well as towards the firewall, not just left and right.
More agressive brake pads will help also.
Your shocks are adequate, but those springs are soft, as others pointed out, not much more stiff than stock ones, you'd be better off selling them and getting something a little stiffer, ravensbade's web-site has some useful comparisons of spring rates.
Big bars, big shocks, big springs, not necessarily in that order.
Sorry, I'm being vague on purpose, as you're going to be racing me, I'm in your class/region.
2004 STS Northwest Regional Champ~ UNDEFEATED!! :devil:
Improvements planned for next year:more tire, more spring, more bar, more shock, header, race-seat, motor & tranny mounts, computer re-flash and maybe I'll even take the spare tire out for the first time!
See you next year.
| adhowe70 | 12-16-2004 09:20 PM |
Undefeated, eh? The results indicate the NWR STS champ won 7 out of 10, attending 9. Sounds like "defeated twice" to me.
Either way, I'll take that challenge. I'll run in STS with you.
Andy H.
5th at 2004 Solo2 Nationals, B Stock
Either way, I'll take that challenge. I'll run in STS with you.
Andy H.
5th at 2004 Solo2 Nationals, B Stock
| deuce.five | 12-16-2004 09:35 PM |
Cool. Yeah, I admit, Scott showed up and beat me twice early on. I saw a post of yours recently that said you were going to STS, should be fun! As far as I can tell, STS should grow by about 4-5 cars from last year from what I'm hearing, locally that is. The more the better! Street Touring Subaru!! :lol: Did you get rid of your S2000? Is STS your focus for next year? I'm still learning, this was my second year, I kept changing/adding parts, upgrading, so it was different every time out until about the last 4 events, so the car is good, and getting better, but I need to catch up with it. See you next year!
| adhowe70 | 12-16-2004 10:34 PM |
I had to pick on you... remember that a regional championship is still a great showing. I'll try to run some events in STS instead of PAX (my usual NWR hangout) so that we can compare notes.
STS is a "easy to run" class for me this year. I still have the Honda, but since my wife and I are having a baby this coming May, I want to drive something that I can pack myself and run with as little hassle as possible. Since it takes two people to make the Honda a worthwhile effort (one to drive it, one to haul the tires) the Subaru looks to be a good thing to do. The Honda is probably still the car that will be going to Nationals. Its too damn much fun.
Since my car is in the shop right now and money is unexpectedly being spent on its "routine" maintenance (ProSolo finally caught up with the clutch) I'll probably spend my money on a set of Ground Controls and some camber plates. to go with my KYB's. And then, I'll invest in some real sway bars, I think a front one first. Then a rear.
Andy H.
STS is a "easy to run" class for me this year. I still have the Honda, but since my wife and I are having a baby this coming May, I want to drive something that I can pack myself and run with as little hassle as possible. Since it takes two people to make the Honda a worthwhile effort (one to drive it, one to haul the tires) the Subaru looks to be a good thing to do. The Honda is probably still the car that will be going to Nationals. Its too damn much fun.
Since my car is in the shop right now and money is unexpectedly being spent on its "routine" maintenance (ProSolo finally caught up with the clutch) I'll probably spend my money on a set of Ground Controls and some camber plates. to go with my KYB's. And then, I'll invest in some real sway bars, I think a front one first. Then a rear.
Andy H.
| Fred | 12-17-2004 11:18 AM |
Well, I still have a set of ground controls for sale, adhowe... :)
| JeffClark | 12-17-2004 05:05 PM |
Not quite that gung-ho yet.
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I think I'm going to hold off on the camber plates. I'll stick with a streetable set-it-and-leave-it alignment, like that recommended by Mike on SPDUSA.com. The camber plates are just too much to spend at this stage in the game. Maybe down the road I'll be more inclined to spend that kind of money on a component which is more of a second order effect.
One question that hasn't been answered, is whether or not the upper strut mounts / camber plates cause a ride height change. I recall reading somewhere that they can raise the car. Though that seems unlikely, and even though it's not immediately relevant to me, I'm still curious.
As for NWR - you don't have to worry about me - (A) I'm still new to the sport, and (B) it's unlikely I'll start making the trip to Bremerton - even Packwood is a stretch. I'll probably be sticking to the wwscc events in everett, and maybe a few of the NWR/SCCA events just to get more experience with that. Who knows - maybe I'll hit the first NWR/SCC event, and decide to participate more. I don't think I'm at that competitive level yet though.
One question that hasn't been answered, is whether or not the upper strut mounts / camber plates cause a ride height change. I recall reading somewhere that they can raise the car. Though that seems unlikely, and even though it's not immediately relevant to me, I'm still curious.
As for NWR - you don't have to worry about me - (A) I'm still new to the sport, and (B) it's unlikely I'll start making the trip to Bremerton - even Packwood is a stretch. I'll probably be sticking to the wwscc events in everett, and maybe a few of the NWR/SCCA events just to get more experience with that. Who knows - maybe I'll hit the first NWR/SCC event, and decide to participate more. I don't think I'm at that competitive level yet though.
| Storm | 12-17-2004 08:36 PM |
[QUOTE=JeffClark]I think I'm going to hold off on the camber plates. I'll stick with a streetable set-it-and-leave-it alignment, like that recommended by Mike on SPDUSA.com. The camber plates are just too much to spend at this stage in the game. Maybe down the road I'll be more inclined to spend that kind of money on a component which is more of a second order effect.[/QUOTE]Are you setting up the car for STS or GS? Camber plates can be set/forget if you do it right the first time. They are completely streetable....how could you think they wouldn't be?
Jay Storm
Jay Storm
| adhowe70 | 12-17-2004 11:20 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred]Well, I still have a set of ground controls for sale, adhowe... :)[/QUOTE]
Thanks, but I'll spend the extra $100 to get the spring rates I want. I'm not too jazzed about 350# all around. I'd use 350# springs on the rear, but stiffer on the front.
Andy H.
Thanks, but I'll spend the extra $100 to get the spring rates I want. I'm not too jazzed about 350# all around. I'd use 350# springs on the rear, but stiffer on the front.
Andy H.
| Crosser | 12-20-2004 01:42 PM |
If you have not seen this already, I would suggest you check out Cory Ridgick RS STS set up info on Redshift Motorsports page. This is one of the top RS's in the country in STS.
[url]http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/SubaruSetup.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/SubaruSetup.htm[/url]
| JeffClark | 12-20-2004 03:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Storm]Are you setting up the car for STS or GS? Camber plates can be set/forget if you do it right the first time. They are completely streetable....how could you think they wouldn't be?
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
I'm setting the car up for a streetable STS set-up. I have a rear swaybar and 17x7.5" wheels, so stock is not an option.
I didn't mean to imply that the camber plates are not streetable. I was just saying I'm going with an alignment that is streetable. The camber plates themselves are just going to add a bit more noise is all. However, I think 3 degrees camber is NOT a streetable alignment. I know there are those that maintain you can do it without dramatically accelerated tire wear, but I'm not quite convinced. This is where camber plates should be useful. They should allow a semi-easy alignment swap at the event - taking into account the change in toe, of course. That enables running 3 degrees for race day, and 3/4 degree or less for daily driving. However, they are quite expensive, and I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go through all that set-up before and after each race. I may get there, but I'm not there yet.
I have seen the redshift page - it's a nice setup, but one I'm not ready to tackle for myself.
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
I'm setting the car up for a streetable STS set-up. I have a rear swaybar and 17x7.5" wheels, so stock is not an option.
I didn't mean to imply that the camber plates are not streetable. I was just saying I'm going with an alignment that is streetable. The camber plates themselves are just going to add a bit more noise is all. However, I think 3 degrees camber is NOT a streetable alignment. I know there are those that maintain you can do it without dramatically accelerated tire wear, but I'm not quite convinced. This is where camber plates should be useful. They should allow a semi-easy alignment swap at the event - taking into account the change in toe, of course. That enables running 3 degrees for race day, and 3/4 degree or less for daily driving. However, they are quite expensive, and I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go through all that set-up before and after each race. I may get there, but I'm not there yet.
I have seen the redshift page - it's a nice setup, but one I'm not ready to tackle for myself.
| Storm | 12-21-2004 03:26 AM |
Based on your answer I will suggest that you stay away from the tuner classes....Really. You might be happier if you just put a set of Azenis on OEM wheels and ran Dstock(without the RSB). I don't mean that as a flame, just a conclusion based on what your opinion of "streetable" is and what you're willing to do to set a car up for handling.
[QUOTE=JeffClark]I'm setting the car up for a streetable STS set-up. I have a rear swaybar and 17x7.5" wheels, so stock is not an option.
I didn't mean to imply that the camber plates are not streetable. I was just saying I'm going with an alignment that is streetable. The camber plates themselves are just going to add a bit more noise is all. However, I think 3 degrees camber is NOT a streetable alignment. I know there are those that maintain you can do it without dramatically accelerated tire wear, but I'm not quite convinced. This is where camber plates should be useful. They should allow a semi-easy alignment swap at the event - taking into account the change in toe, of course. That enables running 3 degrees for race day, and 3/4 degree or less for daily driving. However, they are quite expensive, and I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go through all that set-up before and after each race. I may get there, but I'm not there yet.
I have seen the redshift page - it's a nice setup, but one I'm not ready to tackle for myself.[/QUOTE]
Whatever class you decide to run in and whatever you do to setup the car, good luck and have fun.
Jay Storm
[QUOTE=JeffClark]I'm setting the car up for a streetable STS set-up. I have a rear swaybar and 17x7.5" wheels, so stock is not an option.
I didn't mean to imply that the camber plates are not streetable. I was just saying I'm going with an alignment that is streetable. The camber plates themselves are just going to add a bit more noise is all. However, I think 3 degrees camber is NOT a streetable alignment. I know there are those that maintain you can do it without dramatically accelerated tire wear, but I'm not quite convinced. This is where camber plates should be useful. They should allow a semi-easy alignment swap at the event - taking into account the change in toe, of course. That enables running 3 degrees for race day, and 3/4 degree or less for daily driving. However, they are quite expensive, and I'm not sure I'm quite ready to go through all that set-up before and after each race. I may get there, but I'm not there yet.
I have seen the redshift page - it's a nice setup, but one I'm not ready to tackle for myself.[/QUOTE]
Whatever class you decide to run in and whatever you do to setup the car, good luck and have fun.
Jay Storm
| KC | 12-21-2004 07:50 AM |
[QUOTE=Storm]Based on your answer I will suggest that you stay away from the tuner classes....Really. You might be happier if you just put a set of Azenis on OEM wheels and ran Dstock(without the RSB). I don't mean that as a flame, just a conclusion based on what your opinion of "streetable" is and what you're willing to do to set a car up for handling.
Whatever class you decide to run in and whatever you do to setup the car, good luck and have fun.
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
G-Stock would be fun in that car if you can get through the Minis. :)
Whatever class you decide to run in and whatever you do to setup the car, good luck and have fun.
Jay Storm[/QUOTE]
G-Stock would be fun in that car if you can get through the Minis. :)
| fullup1 | 12-21-2004 06:37 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]G-Stock would be fun in that car if you can get through the Minis. :)[/QUOTE]
I agree, come join me in GS, hopefully I'll get my shocks and front swaybar before the Philly SCCA event on January 8th.
Also, don't forget the Celica in GS, that car and the Cooper S are the bane of my existence. Let's see if I can make some headway in GS with the improved suspension (not to mention finally getting the aligment set right).
I agree, come join me in GS, hopefully I'll get my shocks and front swaybar before the Philly SCCA event on January 8th.
Also, don't forget the Celica in GS, that car and the Cooper S are the bane of my existence. Let's see if I can make some headway in GS with the improved suspension (not to mention finally getting the aligment set right).
| adhowe70 | 12-21-2004 08:22 PM |
[QUOTE=KC]G-Stock would be fun in that car if you can get through the Minis. :)[/QUOTE]
Having done this for 3 years... I'm not sure what you're smoking, but I'll have some of it. Fun wouldn't be the word I would use. Other "F" words come to mind.
Andy H.
Having done this for 3 years... I'm not sure what you're smoking, but I'll have some of it. Fun wouldn't be the word I would use. Other "F" words come to mind.
Andy H.
| deuce.five | 12-22-2004 08:16 PM |
Jeff,
Camber plates will affect your ride height in the front, my Cusco's raised the front about 3/4". I understand what you're saying about toe and camber, I think toe shortens tire life more than neg. camber. I run zero toe all around, which maybe isn't the fastest set-up, but I'm not really comfortable changing toe settings at this time. By the way, I've used two different brands of camber plates, neither was noisy, at all. Also, I've talked with Mike Shields, and he runs more aggressive camber settings on his Impreza than he posts on his site.
I have a question: Do you already have the Kumhos? They really don't make a size that's all that good for an RS. The 225/50-16 is a little tall, and I've been told they'd rub. Falken makes the 215/45-16 (my choice), or a 215/40-17, both would fit much better, give you better final drive ratio, without giving up any performance. In our climate, you'll rarely get the Azenis hot enough to be "greasy" Sure, STS allows a 225, but nobody really makes a good tire in that size.
As for not being too serious just yet, I got "bit" and absolutely love auto-xing my car, it's the only place I can approach it's limits responsively. I really don't push my car on the street, just too many things that could go wrong, too many idiots, too many ditches. The auto-x is the only place I can push the limit, and with vertually no consequences. I'll see you next year at some events, stop by and say "Hi". Having fun/driving my best, is my top priority.
~Jeff G.
Camber plates will affect your ride height in the front, my Cusco's raised the front about 3/4". I understand what you're saying about toe and camber, I think toe shortens tire life more than neg. camber. I run zero toe all around, which maybe isn't the fastest set-up, but I'm not really comfortable changing toe settings at this time. By the way, I've used two different brands of camber plates, neither was noisy, at all. Also, I've talked with Mike Shields, and he runs more aggressive camber settings on his Impreza than he posts on his site.
I have a question: Do you already have the Kumhos? They really don't make a size that's all that good for an RS. The 225/50-16 is a little tall, and I've been told they'd rub. Falken makes the 215/45-16 (my choice), or a 215/40-17, both would fit much better, give you better final drive ratio, without giving up any performance. In our climate, you'll rarely get the Azenis hot enough to be "greasy" Sure, STS allows a 225, but nobody really makes a good tire in that size.
As for not being too serious just yet, I got "bit" and absolutely love auto-xing my car, it's the only place I can approach it's limits responsively. I really don't push my car on the street, just too many things that could go wrong, too many idiots, too many ditches. The auto-x is the only place I can push the limit, and with vertually no consequences. I'll see you next year at some events, stop by and say "Hi". Having fun/driving my best, is my top priority.
~Jeff G.
| JeffClark | 12-23-2004 04:14 PM |
Have the Kumhos
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I do already have the Kumhos. 215/45-17 on SSR 17x7.5" Competition wheels. I've had the wheels a long time, and used to have Bridgestone PP-SO2's on them. THOSE were great tires. The Kumhos have about as good dry grip, but lousy wet grip compared to the SO2's. They're noisier too. But, they about 2/3 the price of SO3's, so... I wasn't really researching Auto-X tires when I ended up with the Kumhos. Next time I might make the same choice though, because of the occasional SIR track day where the Kumhos should be less of a liability than the Falkens. If I were going all out, I wouldn't stay with the 17" wheels and stockish diameter tires, but, I drive this car, and am not yet willing to invest in a second set of wheels and tires.
| DougM | 01-12-2005 06:49 PM |
[QUOTE=deuce.five].....stop by and say "Hi". Having fun/driving my best, is my top priority.[/QUOTE]
woot. I'll be around as well, I sure wish that they'd of grouped ALL the ST classes together though, instead of leaving out the STS class. it would of been fun.
JeffClark, I honestly think you'd be happy with the Eibech's. We have that same setup on our RS (w/ KYB's) and it's fine. it's not super competitive but it sure is a heck of a lot more comfortable than the JIC coilovers that are on my STi. cranking up the KYB's to full damping really helps tighten up the ride for the occasional autoX, the springs are soft but the KYB's can compensate some. it's a good compromise setup, I suggest trying it at least. I also have to recommend drop links, the solid alloy (whiteline) ones, both front and rear, they really do tighten up the feel of the steering at the limit. I left the front sway bar alone and upped the rear with an adjustable unit. huge improvement. also, talk to Mike at Europa and he'll set you up with a good alignment. ...
there is something to be said for wanting to keep your car "streetable" ...I've gone both directions with our two Subaru's. the STi is a real beast to drive on our lousy streets up here, the RS isn't nearly as fast but it's often the car we drive when we're just out trying to get somewhere.
woot. I'll be around as well, I sure wish that they'd of grouped ALL the ST classes together though, instead of leaving out the STS class. it would of been fun.
JeffClark, I honestly think you'd be happy with the Eibech's. We have that same setup on our RS (w/ KYB's) and it's fine. it's not super competitive but it sure is a heck of a lot more comfortable than the JIC coilovers that are on my STi. cranking up the KYB's to full damping really helps tighten up the ride for the occasional autoX, the springs are soft but the KYB's can compensate some. it's a good compromise setup, I suggest trying it at least. I also have to recommend drop links, the solid alloy (whiteline) ones, both front and rear, they really do tighten up the feel of the steering at the limit. I left the front sway bar alone and upped the rear with an adjustable unit. huge improvement. also, talk to Mike at Europa and he'll set you up with a good alignment. ...
there is something to be said for wanting to keep your car "streetable" ...I've gone both directions with our two Subaru's. the STi is a real beast to drive on our lousy streets up here, the RS isn't nearly as fast but it's often the car we drive when we're just out trying to get somewhere.
| DougM | 01-12-2005 07:18 PM |
[QUOTE=JeffClark]Anyone else run in WWSCC (Western Washington - [url="http://www.wwscc.org"]www.wwscc.org[/url]) events? Is their STS categorization a little strange? I've only run at the Everett events (not Bremerton) but at least from their web site, they seem to categorize STS as a "pro" category or something... For the events I participated in this summer, I just ran DSP.[/QUOTE]
hey, that's a good point no one has mentioned to you yet. there is no STS class at the WWSCC events, if you want to run in their street tire class (ST2) you will need to run the DSP index. which could be a problem if you spec your mods out for STS, some STS mods are not allowed in DSP and you'd get bumped up to an SM index.... I run that risk myself... kind of a drag. not sure how to work through all that either...
hey, that's a good point no one has mentioned to you yet. there is no STS class at the WWSCC events, if you want to run in their street tire class (ST2) you will need to run the DSP index. which could be a problem if you spec your mods out for STS, some STS mods are not allowed in DSP and you'd get bumped up to an SM index.... I run that risk myself... kind of a drag. not sure how to work through all that either...
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