| Bwana | 02-14-2005 07:45 PM |
Auto-xing newb. Wheels/tires for my SVX.
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Ok...so I might be getting in to some auto-xing this summer, and there's no way I'm going to do it on my 1500lb 18's....so, some quick questions.
What would be the best setup for wheels/tire?
Stock: 16x7.5 225/50/16 about 18lb's
Looking at 3rd gen 16" RX7 rims (16lbs each), or some 17" rims from 5Zigen (cost might be too much though).
So...16 or 17's?
Now tires:
Should I stick with 225's, or move up to 245's? Would it make much of a difference?
245/45/16 or smaller sidewall since these will be for auto-x only?
-or-
245/35/17.
So many choices, and for a first timer I'm not sure what to do.
p.s. remember, this is for my SVX, not a WRX :p
What would be the best setup for wheels/tire?
Stock: 16x7.5 225/50/16 about 18lb's
Looking at 3rd gen 16" RX7 rims (16lbs each), or some 17" rims from 5Zigen (cost might be too much though).
So...16 or 17's?
Now tires:
Should I stick with 225's, or move up to 245's? Would it make much of a difference?
245/45/16 or smaller sidewall since these will be for auto-x only?
-or-
245/35/17.
So many choices, and for a first timer I'm not sure what to do.
p.s. remember, this is for my SVX, not a WRX :p
| wawazat | 02-14-2005 09:07 PM |
:huh:
They autocross [I]those???[/I] :lol:
Todd
They autocross [I]those???[/I] :lol:
Todd
| MattNJ2.8 | 02-14-2005 09:10 PM |
I think the autocross experts would say: Go with 16's, learning to drive is more important and the 16s will be cheaper to buy/replace. Go with better equipment when you reach your limits.
| dowroa | 02-14-2005 09:59 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]Ok...so I might be getting in to some auto-xing this summer, and there's no way I'm going to do it on my 1500lb 18's....so, some quick questions.
What would be the best setup for wheels/tire?
Stock: 16x7.5 225/50/16 about 18lb's
Looking at 3rd gen 16" RX7 rims (16lbs each), or some 17" rims from 5Zigen (cost might be too much though).
So...16 or 17's?
Now tires:
Should I stick with 225's, or move up to 245's? Would it make much of a difference?
245/45/16 or smaller sidewall since these will be for auto-x only?
-or-
245/35/17.
So many choices, and for a first timer I'm not sure what to do.
p.s. remember, this is for my SVX, not a WRX :p[/QUOTE]
Actually, my first question would be 'what class do you want to race in'?
If you no longer have the stock wheels for your car, the wheel choice is up to you. Otherwise, I would stick with the stock rim, or a rim the same dimensions, but lighter. That way, you could race in a 'Stock' class car, and have a shot at being competitive.
Other than that, I would base tire size recommendations depending on gearing of the car as it is the easiest way to change your gearing without messing with your transmission or rear diff. Depending on how local events setup their courses, I would choose a tire size on that as well.
I don't know SVX's very well, and since you are getting into it, I would suggest keeping the stock sized rim, put some Azenis or other 140 treadwear rated tire on there, and go at it for a year. After that, reevaluate, and purchase new rims from there.
Tire and rims arent going to make as much of a difference OVERALL when you first start as much as learning your car at the limits and what makes you faster in that car. I would just get some decent tires on the thing (i.e. Azenis) and then go at it. See where you are once the tires are dead, and then choose further from there as you would have experience and a better idea what class you want to be in, and how important/what is important in autoX to you.
Just my two cents.
- dow
What would be the best setup for wheels/tire?
Stock: 16x7.5 225/50/16 about 18lb's
Looking at 3rd gen 16" RX7 rims (16lbs each), or some 17" rims from 5Zigen (cost might be too much though).
So...16 or 17's?
Now tires:
Should I stick with 225's, or move up to 245's? Would it make much of a difference?
245/45/16 or smaller sidewall since these will be for auto-x only?
-or-
245/35/17.
So many choices, and for a first timer I'm not sure what to do.
p.s. remember, this is for my SVX, not a WRX :p[/QUOTE]
Actually, my first question would be 'what class do you want to race in'?
If you no longer have the stock wheels for your car, the wheel choice is up to you. Otherwise, I would stick with the stock rim, or a rim the same dimensions, but lighter. That way, you could race in a 'Stock' class car, and have a shot at being competitive.
Other than that, I would base tire size recommendations depending on gearing of the car as it is the easiest way to change your gearing without messing with your transmission or rear diff. Depending on how local events setup their courses, I would choose a tire size on that as well.
I don't know SVX's very well, and since you are getting into it, I would suggest keeping the stock sized rim, put some Azenis or other 140 treadwear rated tire on there, and go at it for a year. After that, reevaluate, and purchase new rims from there.
Tire and rims arent going to make as much of a difference OVERALL when you first start as much as learning your car at the limits and what makes you faster in that car. I would just get some decent tires on the thing (i.e. Azenis) and then go at it. See where you are once the tires are dead, and then choose further from there as you would have experience and a better idea what class you want to be in, and how important/what is important in autoX to you.
Just my two cents.
- dow
| Achilles38WRX | 02-14-2005 10:01 PM |
bwana if you can make it - [url]http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/2005/learncurve.html[/url] is a good place to start.
i agree in most cases 16" tires will be cheaper, so I'd go with those.
i agree in most cases 16" tires will be cheaper, so I'd go with those.
| cooleyjb | 02-14-2005 10:10 PM |
Show up with what you have and then after a race or two decide what direction you want to go from there. You might change your mind about what class you want to run in due to a number of things.
If I were to choose I would start with the stock rims and go from there.
If I were to choose I would start with the stock rims and go from there.
| Bwana | 02-14-2005 10:17 PM |
Yeah, I no longer have the stock rims. I'll try to do as much research as i can on...everything...but i have exhaust, and different rotors (stock size), that shouldnt take me out of the stock class, right?
Achilles, im planning on signing up for that once i figure out whats going on with this stuff.
And...where's the best place to get Azenis?
Also, with the smaller sidewalls, the gearing on the SVX is pretty damn long, so the lower gearing might help a little (since 2nd gear takes me up to 80, which i'll probably never get up to on an auto-x course.)
Thanks for the help guys :)
Achilles, im planning on signing up for that once i figure out whats going on with this stuff.
And...where's the best place to get Azenis?
Also, with the smaller sidewalls, the gearing on the SVX is pretty damn long, so the lower gearing might help a little (since 2nd gear takes me up to 80, which i'll probably never get up to on an auto-x course.)
Thanks for the help guys :)
| Bwana | 02-14-2005 10:19 PM |
[QUOTE=wawazat]:huh:
They autocross [I]those???[/I] :lol:
Todd[/QUOTE]
:devil:
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]I think the autocross experts would say: Go with 16's, learning to drive is more important and the 16s will be cheaper to buy/replace. Go with better equipment when you reach your limits.[/QUOTE]
That's what i was thinking too.
They autocross [I]those???[/I] :lol:
Todd[/QUOTE]
:devil:
[QUOTE=MattNJ2.8]I think the autocross experts would say: Go with 16's, learning to drive is more important and the 16s will be cheaper to buy/replace. Go with better equipment when you reach your limits.[/QUOTE]
That's what i was thinking too.
| dowroa | 02-14-2005 10:26 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]Yeah, I no longer have the stock rims. I'll try to do as much research as i can on...everything...but i have exhaust, and different rotors (stock size), that shouldnt take me out of the stock class, right?
Achilles, im planning on signing up for that once i figure out whats going on with this stuff.
And...where's the best place to get Azenis?
Also, with the smaller sidewalls, the gearing on the SVX is pretty damn long, so the lower gearing might help a little (since 2nd gear takes me up to 80, which i'll probably never get up to on an auto-x course.)
Thanks for the help guys :)[/QUOTE]
The exhaust (as long as it is cat back) would leave you in stock, but anything else moves you to AT LEAST Street Touring (next class). If you removed all the CATS, you are in SP I believe.
The brake changes moves you to Street Touring (s). I would just go ahead and sign yourself up in Street Touing S, and play there. It is a street tire class, and you should be decently competitive there. Also, with your gearing be that way, YES, I would get 16s, and a smaller rolling diameter than stock. That *should* be allowed in STS, but I am not 100% up on the small side of tires... I was always looking at the biggest rim/tire possible.
Just remeber, you can only run a STREET TIRE (140+ tread wear) tire in that class. Otherwise, you are going to Street Prepared (i.e. STi's hunting ground).
All you can really do in Stock Class is:
- change struts ONLY
- change RUBBER ONLY (not rims dimensions, but you can replace it with a lighter same dimension rim)
- cat back exhaust ONLY.
That's it. More than that, and you are out of stock class. :)
- dow
Achilles, im planning on signing up for that once i figure out whats going on with this stuff.
And...where's the best place to get Azenis?
Also, with the smaller sidewalls, the gearing on the SVX is pretty damn long, so the lower gearing might help a little (since 2nd gear takes me up to 80, which i'll probably never get up to on an auto-x course.)
Thanks for the help guys :)[/QUOTE]
The exhaust (as long as it is cat back) would leave you in stock, but anything else moves you to AT LEAST Street Touring (next class). If you removed all the CATS, you are in SP I believe.
The brake changes moves you to Street Touring (s). I would just go ahead and sign yourself up in Street Touing S, and play there. It is a street tire class, and you should be decently competitive there. Also, with your gearing be that way, YES, I would get 16s, and a smaller rolling diameter than stock. That *should* be allowed in STS, but I am not 100% up on the small side of tires... I was always looking at the biggest rim/tire possible.
Just remeber, you can only run a STREET TIRE (140+ tread wear) tire in that class. Otherwise, you are going to Street Prepared (i.e. STi's hunting ground).
All you can really do in Stock Class is:
- change struts ONLY
- change RUBBER ONLY (not rims dimensions, but you can replace it with a lighter same dimension rim)
- cat back exhaust ONLY.
That's it. More than that, and you are out of stock class. :)
- dow
| Bwana | 02-14-2005 10:31 PM |
Just looked up the rules.
The rules I found say STS is only up to 3.1L. :o
So I might have to go in STX?
Also says that anything over 7.5" width rims and anything over 225 width tires goes to STU anyway. So...I guess I better find some stock rims. :lol:
....I think. :lol:
The rules I found say STS is only up to 3.1L. :o
So I might have to go in STX?
Also says that anything over 7.5" width rims and anything over 225 width tires goes to STU anyway. So...I guess I better find some stock rims. :lol:
....I think. :lol:
| afpdl | 02-14-2005 10:59 PM |
If youve never done it before just go run what you have. Its your first time it doesnt matter what tires you have, its possible you may not even like it.
And STX goes up to 245s you cant go over that in an awd car for any natinal street tire class. There is also no way to be bumped up to stu. There are mods that will move a car from sts to stx but a stu car is either in the class or not. At least thats how the current rules are written.
And STX goes up to 245s you cant go over that in an awd car for any natinal street tire class. There is also no way to be bumped up to stu. There are mods that will move a car from sts to stx but a stu car is either in the class or not. At least thats how the current rules are written.
| Bwana | 02-14-2005 11:34 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]If youve never done it before just go run what you have. Its your first time it doesnt matter what tires you have, its possible you may not even like it.
And STX goes up to 245s you cant go over that in an awd car for any natinal street tire class. There is also no way to be bumped up to stu. There are mods that will move a car from sts to stx but a stu car is either in the class or not. At least thats how the current rules are written.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, i looked at the PDF this time, and i guess I would be in STX if I went with 8" wide rims. If I went with 7.5" rims I think I might be able to pull off stock class. (except I'm not sure about my rotors. They are slotted/drilled, but the same size as stock)
And STX goes up to 245s you cant go over that in an awd car for any natinal street tire class. There is also no way to be bumped up to stu. There are mods that will move a car from sts to stx but a stu car is either in the class or not. At least thats how the current rules are written.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, i looked at the PDF this time, and i guess I would be in STX if I went with 8" wide rims. If I went with 7.5" rims I think I might be able to pull off stock class. (except I'm not sure about my rotors. They are slotted/drilled, but the same size as stock)
| Bwana | 02-14-2005 11:43 PM |
I'm probably just over-exagerating everything, and probably shouldnt worry about all this until I need to...but I'm just trying to be prepared and sort out this whole thing. :banana:
I think i'll just get the RX7 wheels, and whatever size Azenis that will fit.
edit: *sigh* Can only get Azenis is 225 or 245 in 17" rims...so...+1 wheels are still ok in STS and STX, right? :huh:
I think i'll just get the RX7 wheels, and whatever size Azenis that will fit.
edit: *sigh* Can only get Azenis is 225 or 245 in 17" rims...so...+1 wheels are still ok in STS and STX, right? :huh:
| dowroa | 02-15-2005 11:53 AM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]I'm probably just over-exagerating everything, and probably shouldnt worry about all this until I need to...but I'm just trying to be prepared and sort out this whole thing. :banana:
I think i'll just get the RX7 wheels, and whatever size Azenis that will fit.
edit: *sigh* Can only get Azenis is 225 or 245 in 17" rims...so...+1 wheels are still ok in STS and STX, right? :huh:[/QUOTE]
14.4 WHEELS
A. Any wheels up to 7.5" in width that fit over stock brakes
This is from my last year rules as I have not downloaded this years rule book.
- dow
Ps. Go to [url]www.scca.com[/url] to DOWNLOAD the latest PDF rulebook. It is free this year.
[url=http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0A3E4A-2DA9140&x=050|070&~=]Straight link[/url]
I think i'll just get the RX7 wheels, and whatever size Azenis that will fit.
edit: *sigh* Can only get Azenis is 225 or 245 in 17" rims...so...+1 wheels are still ok in STS and STX, right? :huh:[/QUOTE]
14.4 WHEELS
A. Any wheels up to 7.5" in width that fit over stock brakes
This is from my last year rules as I have not downloaded this years rule book.
- dow
Ps. Go to [url]www.scca.com[/url] to DOWNLOAD the latest PDF rulebook. It is free this year.
[url=http://www.scca.com/Solo/Index.asp?IdS=0A3E4A-2DA9140&x=050|070&~=]Straight link[/url]
| jcroy66 | 02-15-2005 12:31 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]If I went with 7.5" rims I think I might be able to pull off stock class. (except I'm not sure about my rotors. They are slotted/drilled, but the same size as stock)[/QUOTE]
Your brake rotors definitely bump you out of stock.
Your brake rotors definitely bump you out of stock.
| forced4 | 02-15-2005 12:33 PM |
Run the stock class or STS your first time...don't worry about new tires/wheels yet. :)
| DrBiggly | 02-15-2005 01:25 PM |
[QUOTE=forced4]Run the stock class or STS your first time...don't worry about new tires/wheels yet. :)[/QUOTE]
He doesn't have his stock wheels anymore; he can't run stock.
Plus with the drilled/slotted rotors: Can't run stock.
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.
He doesn't have his stock wheels anymore; he can't run stock.
Plus with the drilled/slotted rotors: Can't run stock.
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.
| Georgethefierce | 02-15-2005 01:31 PM |
I would pay good money to see the whale on an Auto-X course!
| Bwana | 02-15-2005 01:35 PM |
[QUOTE=Georgethefierce]I would pay good money to see the whale on an Auto-X course![/QUOTE]
[img]http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/squint.gif[/img]
You can pay my fee to sign up for SCCA :lol: .
And I guess ill be going for STX, since I REALLY dont feel like getting some stock rotors.
[img]http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/squint.gif[/img]
You can pay my fee to sign up for SCCA :lol: .
And I guess ill be going for STX, since I REALLY dont feel like getting some stock rotors.
| forced4 | 02-15-2005 01:37 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]He doesn't have his stock wheels anymore; he can't run stock.
Plus with the drilled/slotted rotors: Can't run stock.
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.[/QUOTE]
First time doesn't really matter much. If he beats the cars on race rubber then there is something wrong.
Plus with the drilled/slotted rotors: Can't run stock.
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.[/QUOTE]
First time doesn't really matter much. If he beats the cars on race rubber then there is something wrong.
| Bwana | 02-15-2005 01:38 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.[/QUOTE]
I should get an exemption from that rule for the massive weight I have to pull with the 3.3L :p
The car isn't allowed in STS; over displacement. STX perhaps if his tires/wheels fit within the ruleset.[/QUOTE]
I should get an exemption from that rule for the massive weight I have to pull with the 3.3L :p
| afpdl | 02-15-2005 01:41 PM |
[QUOTE=forced4]First time doesn't really matter much. If he beats the cars on race rubber then there is something wrong.[/QUOTE]
You are speaking from your experiance at houston events. There are regions that are very strict on classing their cars novice or not for every event. Down here we only get serious about that for divisionals and NTs.
You are speaking from your experiance at houston events. There are regions that are very strict on classing their cars novice or not for every event. Down here we only get serious about that for divisionals and NTs.
| Georgethefierce | 02-15-2005 01:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana][img]http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/squint.gif[/img]
You can pay my fee to sign up for SCCA :lol: .
And I guess ill be going for STX, since I REALLY dont feel like getting some stock rotors.[/QUOTE]
I'd pay your fee to run up here in NE however I don't think we space the cones far enough apart for a SVX to make it through..... :lol:
throw some tires on it and have a blast.....I wish more people would run unusual cars!
You can pay my fee to sign up for SCCA :lol: .
And I guess ill be going for STX, since I REALLY dont feel like getting some stock rotors.[/QUOTE]
I'd pay your fee to run up here in NE however I don't think we space the cones far enough apart for a SVX to make it through..... :lol:
throw some tires on it and have a blast.....I wish more people would run unusual cars!
| DrBiggly | 02-15-2005 02:18 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]I should get an exemption from that rule for the massive weight I have to pull with the 3.3L :p[/QUOTE]
Nope.
As for seeing one on an autox course, the only one I've seen run was flat out awesome. However, this was a $2004 GRM car and had been stripped of every non-essential part. They dropped about 700lbs out of the thing if I remember right. (They're about 3400 stock? About like a lot of the 3-series cars' weights.) It had Azenis on the stock wheels, and 300# Ground Controls on Konis; it was suprisingly fast. In addition, one of the pro drivers there commented on how suprised he was and how he really enjoyed it. :)
(Mike King was there and one of the Pro drivers, but did not drive that car if I remember right.)
Nope.
As for seeing one on an autox course, the only one I've seen run was flat out awesome. However, this was a $2004 GRM car and had been stripped of every non-essential part. They dropped about 700lbs out of the thing if I remember right. (They're about 3400 stock? About like a lot of the 3-series cars' weights.) It had Azenis on the stock wheels, and 300# Ground Controls on Konis; it was suprisingly fast. In addition, one of the pro drivers there commented on how suprised he was and how he really enjoyed it. :)
(Mike King was there and one of the Pro drivers, but did not drive that car if I remember right.)
| Bwana | 02-15-2005 02:57 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]Nope.
As for seeing one on an autox course, the only one I've seen run was flat out awesome. However, this was a $2004 GRM car and had been stripped of every non-essential part. They dropped about 700lbs out of the thing if I remember right. (They're about 3400 stock? About like a lot of the 3-series cars' weights.) It had Azenis on the stock wheels, and 300# Ground Controls on Konis; it was suprisingly fast. In addition, one of the pro drivers there commented on how suprised he was and how he really enjoyed it. :)
(Mike King was there and one of the Pro drivers, but did not drive that car if I remember right.)[/QUOTE]
Yup, I remember the guy had a huge write-up on the SVX network. It was pretty cool :banana: .
As for seeing one on an autox course, the only one I've seen run was flat out awesome. However, this was a $2004 GRM car and had been stripped of every non-essential part. They dropped about 700lbs out of the thing if I remember right. (They're about 3400 stock? About like a lot of the 3-series cars' weights.) It had Azenis on the stock wheels, and 300# Ground Controls on Konis; it was suprisingly fast. In addition, one of the pro drivers there commented on how suprised he was and how he really enjoyed it. :)
(Mike King was there and one of the Pro drivers, but did not drive that car if I remember right.)[/QUOTE]
Yup, I remember the guy had a huge write-up on the SVX network. It was pretty cool :banana: .
| DrBiggly | 02-15-2005 03:05 PM |
You should seriously do the Konis/GCs whenever you get around to replacing your suspension. It is very much worth it; I thought the ride quality was better than the original spring/strut combo as it seemed better suited to the car and less harsh. It rode more like what I was expecting out of an SVX. :)
| Bwana | 02-15-2005 03:08 PM |
[QUOTE=DrBiggly]You should seriously do the Konis/GCs whenever you get around to replacing your suspension. It is very much worth it; I thought the ride quality was better than the original spring/strut combo as it seemed better suited to the car and less harsh. It rode more like what I was expecting out of an SVX. :)[/QUOTE]
Well...I either have to wait for x-mas, or for my b-day to get anything new for my car. No job because of school (already struggling w/ no extra curricular stuff), and no real money saved up. Depending on if I'm taking a class this summer or not, I'll hopefully get a job this summer...so it might be a possibility.
Well...I either have to wait for x-mas, or for my b-day to get anything new for my car. No job because of school (already struggling w/ no extra curricular stuff), and no real money saved up. Depending on if I'm taking a class this summer or not, I'll hopefully get a job this summer...so it might be a possibility.
| Pre-diddy | 02-15-2005 03:20 PM |
Heh, first time I went to an Auto-X I got to ride along in an SVX. With everyone saying how heavy and slow they were, I was supprised at how well it moved around that course. This was on damp pavement, too.
| DrBiggly | 02-15-2005 03:26 PM |
The SVX has a suprising amount of grip; the only problem can be a tendency to snap oversteer in higher speed sweepers. (I've only seen this happen on public roads and not at an autox keep in mind.) Really the stock suspension isn't bad; don't go replacing it JUST because you are autoxing; I'd only do it whenever the stock suspension has finally given out or you are wanting to upgrade it. :)
| ratt_finkel | 02-15-2005 04:22 PM |
Like a few other people mentioned. Take the car as is, and race it atleast twice before you modify. I would suggest racing it for an entire season before oyu change anything. Tires excluded. You will have fun.
| Bwana | 02-15-2005 04:34 PM |
[QUOTE=ratt_finkel]Like a few other people mentioned. Take the car as is, and race it atleast twice before you modify. I would suggest racing it for an entire season before oyu change anything. Tires excluded. You will have fun.[/QUOTE]
Even with my 800lb 18's with about 75% tread left on AVS Db's? :o
Even with my 800lb 18's with about 75% tread left on AVS Db's? :o
| afpdl | 02-15-2005 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE=Bwana]Even with my 800lb 18's with about 75% tread left on AVS Db's? :o[/QUOTE]
Yes even on your 18s. You are not going to lose or not have fun just because you are on heavy tires. Unless you are a prodigy the only point of your first time is to find the course and have fun. Going to lighter wheels will drop .1 off your time if you are lucky, some azenis a sec or so, but driving it like a national champ could drop 5. There is no point in modifing when you have never done it before there is no prize to be won, its just for fun.
Yes even on your 18s. You are not going to lose or not have fun just because you are on heavy tires. Unless you are a prodigy the only point of your first time is to find the course and have fun. Going to lighter wheels will drop .1 off your time if you are lucky, some azenis a sec or so, but driving it like a national champ could drop 5. There is no point in modifing when you have never done it before there is no prize to be won, its just for fun.
| ratt_finkel | 02-15-2005 05:05 PM |
[QUOTE=afpdl]Yes even on your 18s. You are not going to lose or not have fun just because you are on heavy tires. Unless you are a prodigy the only point of your first time is to find the course and have fun. Going to lighter wheels will drop .1 off your time if you are lucky, some azenis a sec or so, but driving it like a national champ could drop 5. There is no point in modifing when you have never done it before there is no prize to be won, its just for fun.[/QUOTE]
As has been said many a time. Work on the nut behind the wheel before you touch another.
As has been said many a time. Work on the nut behind the wheel before you touch another.
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