| SloRice | 04-13-2004 11:32 PM |
Auto-x'ing the STi?
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Hey guys,
For those that have auto-x'd their STi, I was wondering what kind of tire pressures you ran on the RE70's? It doesn't have to be an exact number, just in the ballpark so I have a number to start with so that I'm not wasting 4 or 5 runs before I get something I'm comfortable with. I also have the Tein Flex Coilovers and I'm planning on taking the Perrin RSB and Endlinks off my wrx to put on the STi before the race.
thanks,
Tim
*edit* sorry this is probably the wrong forum. Mod's, please move as needed.
For those that have auto-x'd their STi, I was wondering what kind of tire pressures you ran on the RE70's? It doesn't have to be an exact number, just in the ballpark so I have a number to start with so that I'm not wasting 4 or 5 runs before I get something I'm comfortable with. I also have the Tein Flex Coilovers and I'm planning on taking the Perrin RSB and Endlinks off my wrx to put on the STi before the race.
thanks,
Tim
*edit* sorry this is probably the wrong forum. Mod's, please move as needed.
| afpdl | 04-13-2004 11:47 PM |
38-40 front 34-36 rear.
You know the swaybar design on the sti is quite a bit different then it is on the wrx?
You know the swaybar design on the sti is quite a bit different then it is on the wrx?
| SloRice | 04-14-2004 10:30 AM |
Thanks for the reply on tire pressures. Is that what you run on your car?
Yes, I know the sway bar designs are different. But I think the rsb's that replace the entire system (i.e. bar, and mounting brackets) are interchangeable. So I believe the Perrin will work b/c it replaces both. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.
Thanks,
Tim
Yes, I know the sway bar designs are different. But I think the rsb's that replace the entire system (i.e. bar, and mounting brackets) are interchangeable. So I believe the Perrin will work b/c it replaces both. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.
Thanks,
Tim
| lo-buck | 04-14-2004 10:47 AM |
swaybars so far arent making enough differance on sti to even bother.
| SloRice | 04-14-2004 11:34 AM |
I just called Perrin....so this is straight from the horses mouth.
The wrx and sti swaybar are interchangeable....but....he definantely recommended not doing it because of the orientation of the sway bar due to it sticking way up in the air and possibly puncturing the fuel tank neck filler.
The wrx and sti swaybar are interchangeable....but....he definantely recommended not doing it because of the orientation of the sway bar due to it sticking way up in the air and possibly puncturing the fuel tank neck filler.
| Watkinsm3 | 04-14-2004 11:53 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lo-buck[/i]
[B] swaybars so far arent making enough differance on sti to even bother. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll confirm that this weekend ;)
[B] swaybars so far arent making enough differance on sti to even bother. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll confirm that this weekend ;)
| afpdl | 04-14-2004 01:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SloRice[/i]
[B] Thanks for the reply on tire pressures. Is that what you run on your car?
Yes, I know the sway bar designs are different. But I think the rsb's that replace the entire system (i.e. bar, and mounting brackets) are interchangeable. So I believe the Perrin will work b/c it replaces both. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.
Thanks,
Tim [/B][/QUOTE] I run those pressures when I run the stock tires.
Yes the swaybar should fit if you change the endlinks and everything, I just think it was changed for a reason, I like the new design better, but its your call.
What do you mean swaybars havent done much on stis?
[B] Thanks for the reply on tire pressures. Is that what you run on your car?
Yes, I know the sway bar designs are different. But I think the rsb's that replace the entire system (i.e. bar, and mounting brackets) are interchangeable. So I believe the Perrin will work b/c it replaces both. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.
Thanks,
Tim [/B][/QUOTE] I run those pressures when I run the stock tires.
Yes the swaybar should fit if you change the endlinks and everything, I just think it was changed for a reason, I like the new design better, but its your call.
What do you mean swaybars havent done much on stis?
| del105 | 04-14-2004 01:46 PM |
02+ wrx droplinks connected to a larger rear swaybar , your just begging to break the sti control arms. If you want to run the older design you need to replace swaybar endlinks and control arms. You can leave the STi mounting brackets.
| StealthWagon | 04-14-2004 03:01 PM |
just wanted to say that i have a cusco rsb on the sti and yes it makes a difference, it is awesome. i highly recommend it
| FSelekler | 04-14-2004 03:54 PM |
With stock tires, we ran 39/39 or 39/38 last season. That is the best combination that worked for my style of driving, I think 4 psi front rear difference is a little too much, but that is quite dependent on how you drive, brake, and throttle.
my 2c...
my 2c...
| afpdl | 04-14-2004 06:57 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by FSelekler[/i]
[B] I think 4 psi front rear difference is a little too much, but that is quite dependent on how you drive, brake, and throttle.
my 2c... [/B][/QUOTE] The diff setting also matters.
[B] I think 4 psi front rear difference is a little too much, but that is quite dependent on how you drive, brake, and throttle.
my 2c... [/B][/QUOTE] The diff setting also matters.
| HeyDan | 04-14-2004 08:56 PM |
I ran 50 front 45 rear DCCD dial on manual, full open. Turn-in was decent and the rear gave a little in a good way.
The only mod I have are pinks with the stock tops.
All four tires were in great shape after 4 aggressive runs.
The only mod I have are pinks with the stock tops.
All four tires were in great shape after 4 aggressive runs.
| afpdl | 04-14-2004 08:58 PM |
Where did the other 5% go?
| FSelekler | 04-14-2004 10:01 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl [/i]
[B]The diff setting also matters. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're certainly right, we keep it in auto mode during autocrosses.
[B]The diff setting also matters. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're certainly right, we keep it in auto mode during autocrosses.
| DonA | 04-15-2004 09:23 AM |
Running Rallispec "Fast Road" Alignment with max neg camber, 0 rear toe
DCCD "Auto"
I use 39-41psi Front - 41-43psi Rear
My car feels netural on turn in - oversteer on exit
DCCD "Auto"
I use 39-41psi Front - 41-43psi Rear
My car feels netural on turn in - oversteer on exit
| turboICE | 04-15-2004 09:53 AM |
My impression on the stock suspension is it would benefit from a higher spring rate before a rear sway bar. Though I am still stock so can't confirm my impression yet.
Running 37-39 psi, side walls are pretty stiff so they seem to handle it pretty well. Start at 40-41 and play with it from there.
Running 37-39 psi, side walls are pretty stiff so they seem to handle it pretty well. Start at 40-41 and play with it from there.
| ANZAC_1915 | 04-15-2004 10:17 AM |
I can't imagine needing >42 PSI at either end of the RE070s. I mean, the sidewall is a heck of a lot stiffer than an RE92. :)
| DonA | 04-15-2004 10:41 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Glenn Wallace[/i]
[B] I can't imagine needing >42 PSI at either end of the RE070s. I mean, the sidewall is a heck of a lot stiffer than an RE92. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
While the RE070 do have a stiff side wall...I ran 39f-42R this saturday and my lowest time was run with that. The fronts were running over a tad @ 37
The air temp was 55 and the pavement at the location is quite abrasive. I'm also 235 pounds & had 3/4 tank of fuel
So as always YMMV!!!
[B] I can't imagine needing >42 PSI at either end of the RE070s. I mean, the sidewall is a heck of a lot stiffer than an RE92. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
While the RE070 do have a stiff side wall...I ran 39f-42R this saturday and my lowest time was run with that. The fronts were running over a tad @ 37
The air temp was 55 and the pavement at the location is quite abrasive. I'm also 235 pounds & had 3/4 tank of fuel
So as always YMMV!!!
| wrrrx | 04-16-2004 10:09 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SloRice [/i]
[B]I just called Perrin....so this is straight from the horses mouth.
The wrx and sti swaybar are interchangeable....but....he definantely recommended not doing it because of the orientation of the sway bar due to it sticking way up in the air and possibly puncturing the fuel tank neck filler. [/B][/QUOTE]
Jeff wouldn't have even bothered [B][i]making[/i][/B] an STi-specific bar if he didn't feel he had to!
I installed mine a coupla weeks ago- will try it out for the first time this Sunday.
Can't help ya on tires, SloRice, I stepped up to Victoracers.
Speaking of rice, I'll hafta pay attn to my Worx BOV to make sure I'm spooling properly... :p
WhooHOoooOO!
Russ R
[B]I just called Perrin....so this is straight from the horses mouth.
The wrx and sti swaybar are interchangeable....but....he definantely recommended not doing it because of the orientation of the sway bar due to it sticking way up in the air and possibly puncturing the fuel tank neck filler. [/B][/QUOTE]
Jeff wouldn't have even bothered [B][i]making[/i][/B] an STi-specific bar if he didn't feel he had to!
I installed mine a coupla weeks ago- will try it out for the first time this Sunday.
Can't help ya on tires, SloRice, I stepped up to Victoracers.
Speaking of rice, I'll hafta pay attn to my Worx BOV to make sure I'm spooling properly... :p
WhooHOoooOO!
Russ R
| jmott | 04-16-2004 10:23 AM |
odd that you guys are running less pressure in front than in the rear.
the weight distribution would indicate that optimum pressures for grip would be higher in front than in rear.
but I suppose it tire pressure is the only tool available to tune the balane of the car, raising the rear pressure above optimum would be called for.
If you are running in a class that allows suspension changes, going to a stiffer rear roll stiffness relative to front might let you drop that rear pressure back down for more total grip.
the weight distribution would indicate that optimum pressures for grip would be higher in front than in rear.
but I suppose it tire pressure is the only tool available to tune the balane of the car, raising the rear pressure above optimum would be called for.
If you are running in a class that allows suspension changes, going to a stiffer rear roll stiffness relative to front might let you drop that rear pressure back down for more total grip.
| DonA | 04-16-2004 10:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jmott[/i]
[B] odd that you guys are running less pressure in front than in the rear.
the weight distribution would indicate that optimum pressures for grip would be higher in front than in rear.
but I suppose it tire pressure is the only tool available to tune the balane of the car, raising the rear pressure above optimum would be called for.
If you are running in a class that allows suspension changes, going to a stiffer rear roll stiffness relative to front might let you drop that rear pressure back down for more total grip. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes my goals are to dial out understeer as I like to run slightly loose
But then again I am still learning the car but so far i feel this has worked best
[B] odd that you guys are running less pressure in front than in the rear.
the weight distribution would indicate that optimum pressures for grip would be higher in front than in rear.
but I suppose it tire pressure is the only tool available to tune the balane of the car, raising the rear pressure above optimum would be called for.
If you are running in a class that allows suspension changes, going to a stiffer rear roll stiffness relative to front might let you drop that rear pressure back down for more total grip. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes my goals are to dial out understeer as I like to run slightly loose
But then again I am still learning the car but so far i feel this has worked best
| Homemade WRX | 04-16-2004 11:18 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by afpdl[/i]
[B] Where did the other 5% go? [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought that at first but the 50 and 45 are the tire pressures...the diff is full open...
[B] Where did the other 5% go? [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought that at first but the 50 and 45 are the tire pressures...the diff is full open...
| afpdl | 04-16-2004 11:34 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Homemade WRX[/i]
[B] I thought that at first but the 50 and 45 are the tire pressures...the diff is full open... [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought he was reffering to diff setting but if hes running 50psi front they are way to high. These are not re92s they do actually have sidewalls that dont flex when you put body weight on them.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DonA[/i]
[B] Yes my goals are to dial out understeer as I like to run slightly loose
But then again I am still learning the car but so far i feel this has worked best [/B][/QUOTE]
Lowering pressures also dials out understeer.
[B] I thought that at first but the 50 and 45 are the tire pressures...the diff is full open... [/B][/QUOTE]
I thought he was reffering to diff setting but if hes running 50psi front they are way to high. These are not re92s they do actually have sidewalls that dont flex when you put body weight on them.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DonA[/i]
[B] Yes my goals are to dial out understeer as I like to run slightly loose
But then again I am still learning the car but so far i feel this has worked best [/B][/QUOTE]
Lowering pressures also dials out understeer.
| stapleking | 04-16-2004 01:18 PM |
The Perrin WRX bar and end-links ARE NOT interchangeable with the STi one[s].
The bar will contact the end of the muffler, fuel filler neck, and inner panel. The rear suspension will bind and you have a real risk of breaking the end-link[s]. The problem is the shape of the bar is different and the links are much shorter [STi].
Bin' there, done that......
Tire pressure and alignment will make a much bigger difference in the handling than will a bar change.
The bar will contact the end of the muffler, fuel filler neck, and inner panel. The rear suspension will bind and you have a real risk of breaking the end-link[s]. The problem is the shape of the bar is different and the links are much shorter [STi].
Bin' there, done that......
Tire pressure and alignment will make a much bigger difference in the handling than will a bar change.
| afpdl | 04-16-2004 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by stapleking[/i]
[B] The Perrin WRX bar and end-links ARE NOT interchangeable with the STi one[s].
The bar will contact the end of the muffler, fuel filler neck, and inner panel. The rear suspension will bind and you have a real risk of breaking the end-link[s]. The problem is the shape of the bar is different and the links are much shorter [STi].
[/B][/QUOTE]
Also the place the end links mount to is relocated on the sti. You can convert it but you have to change the rear arms, endlinks, swaybar.
[B] The Perrin WRX bar and end-links ARE NOT interchangeable with the STi one[s].
The bar will contact the end of the muffler, fuel filler neck, and inner panel. The rear suspension will bind and you have a real risk of breaking the end-link[s]. The problem is the shape of the bar is different and the links are much shorter [STi].
[/B][/QUOTE]
Also the place the end links mount to is relocated on the sti. You can convert it but you have to change the rear arms, endlinks, swaybar.
| jmott | 04-16-2004 01:28 PM |
[QUOTE][i]
Tire pressure and alignment will make a much bigger difference in the handling than will a bar change. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats a pretty general statement. That would depend on how large the various changes were. Swaybars can be VERY dramatic.
Ideally you would use your alignment and tire pressure settings to maximize the grip at each tire. Then use swaybars and spring rates to distribute forces to the front and rear of the car in such a way as to achieve balance. This way you don't end up taking away grip to get neutral handling.
Tire pressure and alignment will make a much bigger difference in the handling than will a bar change. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats a pretty general statement. That would depend on how large the various changes were. Swaybars can be VERY dramatic.
Ideally you would use your alignment and tire pressure settings to maximize the grip at each tire. Then use swaybars and spring rates to distribute forces to the front and rear of the car in such a way as to achieve balance. This way you don't end up taking away grip to get neutral handling.
| DonA | 04-16-2004 03:21 PM |
I think its safe to say he should sort out the car with what he's got in it before he adds another equation of bars etc to the mix.
He's stated coilovers (Which in themselves could take a season or more to sort out)
I think enough people have responded to get a baseline. I would take the car out and get a feel for how it drves and work on it from there.
He's stated coilovers (Which in themselves could take a season or more to sort out)
I think enough people have responded to get a baseline. I would take the car out and get a feel for how it drves and work on it from there.
| stapleking | 04-16-2004 03:24 PM |
Agreed!
| SloRice | 04-16-2004 03:27 PM |
Very well put Don. You guys have been great with all the info you've given me.....i've been reading this daily just haven't posted to it. I really have to play with the Tein's to find the best setup for my driving style. At some point I'll add the Perrin STi sway bar, but the car is on rails already.
So i've talked with a couple subie guys in my area (one got FTD at the last auto-x - in a 2.5rs of all things!! :eek:) and they are gonna help me with setting up the car.
Tim
So i've talked with a couple subie guys in my area (one got FTD at the last auto-x - in a 2.5rs of all things!! :eek:) and they are gonna help me with setting up the car.
Tim
| jmott | 04-16-2004 03:56 PM |
keep in mind that adjusting the dampening rates will only affect the initial balnce of the car as you begin to change direction. It wont affect the cars balance once it has set in a corner.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SloRice [/i]
[B]Very well put Don. You guys have been great with all the info you've given me.....i've been reading this daily just haven't posted to it. I really have to play with the Tein's to find the best setup for my driving style. At some point I'll add the Perrin STi sway bar, but the car is on rails already.
So i've talked with a couple subie guys in my area (one got FTD at the last auto-x - in a 2.5rs of all things!! :eek:) and they are gonna help me with setting up the car.
Tim [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SloRice [/i]
[B]Very well put Don. You guys have been great with all the info you've given me.....i've been reading this daily just haven't posted to it. I really have to play with the Tein's to find the best setup for my driving style. At some point I'll add the Perrin STi sway bar, but the car is on rails already.
So i've talked with a couple subie guys in my area (one got FTD at the last auto-x - in a 2.5rs of all things!! :eek:) and they are gonna help me with setting up the car.
Tim [/B][/QUOTE]
| SloRice | 04-16-2004 04:26 PM |
So should I set them on full stiff and leave it at that??
| jmott | 04-16-2004 04:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SloRice [/i]
[B]So should I set them on full stiff and leave it at that?? [/B][/QUOTE]
nope.
I believe the teins are single adjustable right? one knob adjusts both rebound and bump at the same time?
generally people will slowly raise the stiffness until they get to a point where the car is unstable or hops on bumps on the track in question, then back off from there.
[B]So should I set them on full stiff and leave it at that?? [/B][/QUOTE]
nope.
I believe the teins are single adjustable right? one knob adjusts both rebound and bump at the same time?
generally people will slowly raise the stiffness until they get to a point where the car is unstable or hops on bumps on the track in question, then back off from there.
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