| spazegun2213 | 12-06-2005 01:37 PM |
Autopower?
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OK, so somthing i have been toying with is if my car is going to see almost as much track as road next year (well i hope at least) so I have been thinking about getting a bolt in roll bar (4pt cage for the rear seats) that i can remove for daily driving. I would like to know if anyone has an autopower bolt in anything and if they like it, and basic thoughts about their products.
Oh, and no i do not want a harness bar, I'm too tall for one.
Thanks
-Spaze
Oh, and no i do not want a harness bar, I'm too tall for one.
Thanks
-Spaze
| RichardM | 12-06-2005 02:46 PM |
If you need a cage, you don't want a bolt in one. IMHO.
Richard the rallycar driver
Richard the rallycar driver
| bjorn240 | 12-06-2005 02:57 PM |
Sure, those are awesome. Will go good with your harnesses. :)
- Christian
- Christian
| MattSTi | 12-06-2005 03:09 PM |
The autopower race roll bar is awesome. And in fact, I have one for sale!
PM me if you are interested.
-Matt
PM me if you are interested.
-Matt
| spazegun2213 | 12-06-2005 03:33 PM |
[QUOTE=RichardM]If you need a cage, you don't want a bolt in one. IMHO.
Richard the rallycar driver[/QUOTE]
well the car will need to retain the rear seats so the cage will have to come out for daily driving..
Richard the rallycar driver[/QUOTE]
well the car will need to retain the rear seats so the cage will have to come out for daily driving..
| DILLIGAF Racing | 12-06-2005 03:56 PM |
trust me, your not going to want to take that cage in and out all the time
| crystalhelix | 12-06-2005 03:58 PM |
[QUOTE=DILLIGAF Racing]trust me, your not going to want to take that cage in and out all the time[/QUOTE]
Don't trust him. :lol:
Don't trust him. :lol:
| MattSTi | 12-06-2005 04:03 PM |
Yeah, I had just the roll bar in and thought I would take it in and out. Turns out to be too much of a hassle most of the time (although it only takes about 45 min to take out/put in) so I pretended my car was a two seater the whole summer.
-Matt
-Matt
| StealthWRX | 12-06-2005 04:08 PM |
while it is a big pain in the butt to pull the cage out, i have had to remove it at least 4 or 5 times in order to get to certain things in the car and to have it painted etc..... if ti was bolted in id be SOL. i know i get a lot of crap for it being bolt in, but i can feel the increased stiffness, i feel safer, and it looks good.
| Dave_Clark | 12-06-2005 06:26 PM |
Forget Autopower, they're horrible. They fit terribly, very far away from the body and they mount to the weakest part of the car, the sheetmetal floor. The last time I saw one it was made out of ERW tubing, but maybe they are using DOM now. Because they are meant to be installed in a car without having to trim any of the interior they encroach quite a bit in the cockpit and make entry and exit difficult. I saw an Autopower cage that had collapsed from a very minor, slow rollover. The car climbed a bank and tipped over onto the roof going only a few mph. Trust me, I've built rollcages for a living for 15 years, get something real.
| trhoppe | 12-06-2005 06:33 PM |
$2000 for this
[url]http://www.trackmonkeyracing.com/pictures/2005_08_29_Cage_Done/[/url]
Why would you do a bolt in when you could have this :)
You won't want to take it out, you won't feel like crawling over it, and most importantly you won't want to roll your car with it IN the car ;)
If you want a cage, have a track car. If you want a street car too, get a roll bar only and forget about the rear seat. Get a real shop to put it in.
-Tom
[url]http://www.trackmonkeyracing.com/pictures/2005_08_29_Cage_Done/[/url]
Why would you do a bolt in when you could have this :)
You won't want to take it out, you won't feel like crawling over it, and most importantly you won't want to roll your car with it IN the car ;)
If you want a cage, have a track car. If you want a street car too, get a roll bar only and forget about the rear seat. Get a real shop to put it in.
-Tom
| bjorn240 | 12-06-2005 07:03 PM |
I don't like to play an expert on TV, but can I ask what the heck you're really hoping to do with this car? Your plans thus far are to
1) install a harness with questionable regard for safety
2) install a totally worthless cage
3) NOT install a proper race seat
What's the goal here? This just doesn't seem to be a very well thought out plan for developing a track car, and seems a silly path for an autocross car, as well. Perhaps you'd be better off keeping your STi stock, and buying a prepared Miata or MkII Golf for a track car?
- Christian
1) install a harness with questionable regard for safety
2) install a totally worthless cage
3) NOT install a proper race seat
What's the goal here? This just doesn't seem to be a very well thought out plan for developing a track car, and seems a silly path for an autocross car, as well. Perhaps you'd be better off keeping your STi stock, and buying a prepared Miata or MkII Golf for a track car?
- Christian
| spazegun2213 | 12-06-2005 07:49 PM |
Ahhhh, ok, so I was grossly mistaken, I am looking at the rool bar from autopower NOT their cages. My bad, and i do know the differences between the two, i was jut not thinking when i was typing.
For all those who are asking *** is this dude trying to do? I'm trying to have the best of both worlds... keeping my car 100% safe for the road and when it needs to be track/autoX preped. Because of the street part i will NOT replace the seats!! The Stockers will be fine for my initial, but later if i want and feel like it, i would like a way of mounting a 5pt harness without a bar. I'm a tall guy so bars are out. So whats left?? Well a roll bar, or attaching the 5pt to some of the rear seat mounts. I donno if you can attach a 5pt to the rear seat mounts so I'm looking into a roll bar.
For all those who are asking *** is this dude trying to do? I'm trying to have the best of both worlds... keeping my car 100% safe for the road and when it needs to be track/autoX preped. Because of the street part i will NOT replace the seats!! The Stockers will be fine for my initial, but later if i want and feel like it, i would like a way of mounting a 5pt harness without a bar. I'm a tall guy so bars are out. So whats left?? Well a roll bar, or attaching the 5pt to some of the rear seat mounts. I donno if you can attach a 5pt to the rear seat mounts so I'm looking into a roll bar.
| Safe Drives | 12-06-2005 08:06 PM |
Autopower Roll Bars and cage kits are made from DOM 1.75 x 0.120 tube. Autopower bolt in 6 point roll cage kits are legal for many SCCA ClubRaceing classes as well as meeting NHRA rules for cars running 11.49 or quiker.
The rear section kits like Mick's shown here below are also of the same DOM tube. Only the"Street" type roll bars are ERW when comeing from Autopower. Everything else is DOM. :)
Thanks Mick for the image.
[img]http://www.mickandsarah.com/WRX-Wagon-Autopower-install/images/img_5143.jpg[/img]
For the guy that does track days or hill climb events this has got to be safer than a stock Impreza assuming it's been properly padded and the front occupants are strapped in with a proper race harnesses.
Dave Clark is right though. When properly installed, a weld in cage is safer than a bolt in one. DOM is safer than ERW.
HTH
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="http://www.safedrives.com"]www.safedrives.com[/url]
877-739-1713
The rear section kits like Mick's shown here below are also of the same DOM tube. Only the"Street" type roll bars are ERW when comeing from Autopower. Everything else is DOM. :)
Thanks Mick for the image.
[img]http://www.mickandsarah.com/WRX-Wagon-Autopower-install/images/img_5143.jpg[/img]
For the guy that does track days or hill climb events this has got to be safer than a stock Impreza assuming it's been properly padded and the front occupants are strapped in with a proper race harnesses.
Dave Clark is right though. When properly installed, a weld in cage is safer than a bolt in one. DOM is safer than ERW.
HTH
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="http://www.safedrives.com"]www.safedrives.com[/url]
877-739-1713
| ChrisDP | 12-06-2005 08:12 PM |
You're not going to want to remove it. I had an Autopower rollbar in my '95 Integra with all the options, ie chromoly material, harness bar, removable diagonal bar/center section. You do NOT want to remove the center section regularly because it's a total pain in the neck to get it lined back up again to reinstall the bolts. It's a pain in the neck to pull the main hoop+rear support mounts out too. It's a cumbersome large object to move around, you're going to want 2 people to install it to get it in place without smacking it into the rest of the car interior. Not kidding, I say this from installing a few of them...
If you do get a rollbar, please pad it well. You don't really want any rollbar near an unhelmeted head, but if you must, don't skimp on the padding.
If you do get a rollbar, please pad it well. You don't really want any rollbar near an unhelmeted head, but if you must, don't skimp on the padding.
| Safe Drives | 12-06-2005 08:25 PM |
[QUOTE=ChrisDP]EDIT:
If you do get a rollbar, please pad it well. You don't really want any rollbar near an unhelmeted head, but if you must, don't skimp on the padding.[/QUOTE]
Cheers to that!
Check out the SFI and FIA Rated Roll Cage Padding at [url="http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72"]http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72[/url].
For a street car go with the FIA pad. FIA pad is thicker and will absorb more energy in a impact with a un-helmeted head.
Best regards,
Charles
Safedrives.com
877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
If you do get a rollbar, please pad it well. You don't really want any rollbar near an unhelmeted head, but if you must, don't skimp on the padding.[/QUOTE]
Cheers to that!
Check out the SFI and FIA Rated Roll Cage Padding at [url="http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72"]http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72[/url].
For a street car go with the FIA pad. FIA pad is thicker and will absorb more energy in a impact with a un-helmeted head.
Best regards,
Charles
Safedrives.com
877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
| trhoppe | 12-06-2005 08:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Safe Drives]Cheers to that!
Check out the SFI and FIA Rated Roll Cage Padding at [url="http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72"]http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72[/url].
For a street car go with the FIA pad. FIA pad is thicker and will absorb more energy in a impact with a un-helmeted head.
Best regards,
Charles
Safedrives.com
877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com[/QUOTE]
Yup, do not get the cheap foam stuff, its worthless.
-Tom
Check out the SFI and FIA Rated Roll Cage Padding at [url="http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72"]http://www.safedrives.com/products.asp?cat=72[/url].
For a street car go with the FIA pad. FIA pad is thicker and will absorb more energy in a impact with a un-helmeted head.
Best regards,
Charles
Safedrives.com
877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com[/QUOTE]
Yup, do not get the cheap foam stuff, its worthless.
-Tom
| Dave_Clark | 12-06-2005 11:22 PM |
OK, for a 4 point rollbar in a part time track car I would give more leeway. Definitely better than nothing and there are not too many other options out there, especially if you are not into cutting up your interior. Good to hear they are using DOM tubing now, that didn't use to be the case but that was years ago that I last installed an Autopower cage. I never liked the foot plates with sharp corners bolting to the thin sheetmetal floor several inches away from the sill. In the case of one car the corner of the main hoop mounting plate overlapped right over a 2" diameter drainage hole in the floor! One of the mounting bolts went through the plug!
That harness bar in the picture looks a bit low, can you say spinal compression? Oh well, that's easily moved.
That harness bar in the picture looks a bit low, can you say spinal compression? Oh well, that's easily moved.
| WillysPU | 12-07-2005 12:10 AM |
I am with Spaze on this one, I do quite a few track days and my budget doesn't allow a full race vehicle and I need to keep the back seat open to take my kids to school but I would like some increased safety incase of roll overs.
If the roll bar could be installed/removed in about an hour that would probably work. Currently I change wheels and brake pads and remove the rear seat to adjust my konis so I am already wrenching before and after racing.
Any other options?
If the roll bar could be installed/removed in about an hour that would probably work. Currently I change wheels and brake pads and remove the rear seat to adjust my konis so I am already wrenching before and after racing.
Any other options?
| Butt Dyno | 12-07-2005 12:36 AM |
Spaze, wasn't your other option a harness bar?
That would functionally make the rear seats useless for passengers anyway, so a rollbar wouldn't be much worse, except for throwing boxes and stuff back there.
And if you need room for stuff in a pinch you can remove the passenger's seat.
edit: maybe I'm thinking of someone else
john
That would functionally make the rear seats useless for passengers anyway, so a rollbar wouldn't be much worse, except for throwing boxes and stuff back there.
And if you need room for stuff in a pinch you can remove the passenger's seat.
edit: maybe I'm thinking of someone else
john
| spazegun2213 | 12-07-2005 01:31 AM |
[QUOTE=ButtDyno]Spaze, wasn't your other option a harness bar?
That would functionally make the rear seats useless for passengers anyway, so a rollbar wouldn't be much worse, except for throwing boxes and stuff back there.
And if you need room for stuff in a pinch you can remove the passenger's seat.
edit: maybe I'm thinking of someone else
john[/QUOTE]
John,
Nope, no harness bar for me, I'm too big for any production harness bar. If i was smaller, i would think about it.
That would functionally make the rear seats useless for passengers anyway, so a rollbar wouldn't be much worse, except for throwing boxes and stuff back there.
And if you need room for stuff in a pinch you can remove the passenger's seat.
edit: maybe I'm thinking of someone else
john[/QUOTE]
John,
Nope, no harness bar for me, I'm too big for any production harness bar. If i was smaller, i would think about it.
| greg donovan | 12-07-2005 01:42 AM |
[QUOTE=spazegun2213]John,
Nope, no harness bar for me, I'm too big for any production harness bar. If i was smaller, i would think about it.[/QUOTE]
it may be worth it to have a custom one fabbed up for you.
Nope, no harness bar for me, I'm too big for any production harness bar. If i was smaller, i would think about it.[/QUOTE]
it may be worth it to have a custom one fabbed up for you.
| WillysPU | 12-07-2005 11:38 AM |
[QUOTE=Safe Drives]
[img]http://www.mickandsarah.com/WRX-Wagon-Autopower-install/images/img_5143.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
So it looks like the front mounting points for the roll bar are on the floor?
By any chance does anyone have pics showing where the rear mounting points are?
I am just trying to figure out if the rear bars go through the fender wall or through the back of the rear seat.
Thanks!
[img]http://www.mickandsarah.com/WRX-Wagon-Autopower-install/images/img_5143.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
So it looks like the front mounting points for the roll bar are on the floor?
By any chance does anyone have pics showing where the rear mounting points are?
I am just trying to figure out if the rear bars go through the fender wall or through the back of the rear seat.
Thanks!
| ChrisDP | 12-07-2005 12:08 PM |
I'm pretty sure they mount TO the fender well... so the backseat cushion squishes around them.
You're really not going to want to take the whole bar in and out. After you drill holes, you're going to want to put sealant around the backup plates to keep water from creeping up the mounting bolt onto your carpet. With the rollbar out, you now have holes from the outside to inside of your car. Another mess. Keep in mind the bar gets put under tension whenever the car is loaded, so it's going to be a bit difficult to get the mounting plate holes to line back up with those on the car, depending on the surface the car is parked on. It would probably be easiest on the Subaru to take the front seats out so you have room to crawl around in the car and fidget the bar into place.
You're really not going to want to take the whole bar in and out. After you drill holes, you're going to want to put sealant around the backup plates to keep water from creeping up the mounting bolt onto your carpet. With the rollbar out, you now have holes from the outside to inside of your car. Another mess. Keep in mind the bar gets put under tension whenever the car is loaded, so it's going to be a bit difficult to get the mounting plate holes to line back up with those on the car, depending on the surface the car is parked on. It would probably be easiest on the Subaru to take the front seats out so you have room to crawl around in the car and fidget the bar into place.
| Safe Drives | 12-07-2005 12:37 PM |
[QUOTE=Dave_Clark]EDIT:
That harness bar in the picture looks a bit low, can you say spinal compression? Oh well, that's easily moved.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on that! Yikes! It can be moved but it should be correct from the factory. I'll see what I can do about that by stirring the pot at Autopower. :D
The SFI says:
[url="http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/gforce/harness/harnessinstall.pdf"]http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/gforce/harness/harnessinstall.pdf[/url]
Best regards,
Charles
[url="www.safedrives.com"]Safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
That harness bar in the picture looks a bit low, can you say spinal compression? Oh well, that's easily moved.[/QUOTE]
Agreed on that! Yikes! It can be moved but it should be correct from the factory. I'll see what I can do about that by stirring the pot at Autopower. :D
The SFI says:
[url="http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/gforce/harness/harnessinstall.pdf"]http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/gforce/harness/harnessinstall.pdf[/url]
Best regards,
Charles
[url="www.safedrives.com"]Safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
| Safe Drives | 12-07-2005 12:38 PM |
Oh and they do indeed mount to the rear fender well area.
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="safedrives.com"]safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="safedrives.com"]safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
| greg donovan | 12-07-2005 01:03 PM |
i learned something intersting reading the articles about the Japanese Dirt Trials in GRM and SCC.
there is a class that ONLY allows bolt in cages. the reasoning was to keep the cost down. and that was on a course where the AWD rally cars were hitting speed of 80-100.
there is a class that ONLY allows bolt in cages. the reasoning was to keep the cost down. and that was on a course where the AWD rally cars were hitting speed of 80-100.
| AdvanSTI | 12-07-2005 01:18 PM |
Personally i would never use these. if you're going to do this then you should just get a real roll cage. it seems like a waste of money for such a faulty part. it wouldn't make me feel one bit safer IMO
| joey1313 | 12-07-2005 03:01 PM |
Maybe I am looking at the wrong bar? It looks like the harness bar is mounted about halfway up the headrest in that pic. How high should it be mounted? Looking at the diagram on the autopower site it shows the smaller bar that connects from the side of the hoop to the diagonal bar as the harness bar. Or is the harness bar supposed to be the main cross bar that connects the sides of the hoop together?
| Safe Drives | 12-07-2005 03:40 PM |
[img]http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/autopower/raceroll_lg.jpg[/img]
I think that this pic pretty much clears up the harness bar question.
The bar above the harness bar but below the main hoop is what Autopower calls a "Head Restraint brace" or something like that. I think the SCCA used to require that for certain seat types and so Autopower keeps putting it in.
[url="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=896854"]Autopower Group Buy is going on now in the Vendor GB forum! Get your kit delivered by the 23rd! [/url]
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="http://safedrives.com/"]safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
I think that this pic pretty much clears up the harness bar question.
The bar above the harness bar but below the main hoop is what Autopower calls a "Head Restraint brace" or something like that. I think the SCCA used to require that for certain seat types and so Autopower keeps putting it in.
[url="http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=896854"]Autopower Group Buy is going on now in the Vendor GB forum! Get your kit delivered by the 23rd! [/url]
Happy Holidays!
Charles
[url="http://safedrives.com/"]safedrives.com
[/url]877-739-1713
cburen at safedrives.com
| joey1313 | 12-07-2005 07:03 PM |
Thanks for clearing that up for me. The other bar just looked like the natural place to attach the belts to me. Hopefully one day soon i'll order mine. :)
| c0has0e | 12-08-2005 01:41 PM |
my car is at autopower today getting one put in i will put some pictures up next week
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