| aceking66 | 09-28-2006 09:48 AM |
best brake pad for autox
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hi all i want to find out how much different does a good aftermarket pad makes compare to stock sti pads? i use my car strightly for autox plus some track days so noise and dust doesnt really matter to me but i want to find something that bite hard and work great even when the brakes are cold works better when they are hot can anyone help me out?
thank you
thank you
| DrBiggly | 09-28-2006 10:31 AM |
Whichever gives you the most confidence. You just won't heat the pads enough (especially in an STi) to worry about temp difference at all. While the Carbotech Bobcats have great modulation capabilities, I find them outside of my comfort zone and I just brake better with a brake pad that grabs in a less linear fashion. Hence the answer to this too is, it depends. :)
-Biggly
-Biggly
| iamchris | 09-28-2006 10:38 AM |
Punctuation FTW.
| Mykl | 09-28-2006 10:38 AM |
It depends on what you like. :)
| iamchris | 09-28-2006 10:52 AM |
yahitrlydoesdependonwhatuliekbcuzifuliek2breakharddenuwanthardbreakpadnifudontnliek2drievofcliffsdenudontwantbreaksatallk?
| Fred | 09-28-2006 10:52 PM |
I have Bobcats on my STi, and Hawk HPS on my 2.5RS. The HPS dust a LOT less than the Bobcats, and they grab a little harder initially. Bobcats are slightly more expensive.
I liked the Axxis Ultimates that I used to use on my other 2.5RS, but they dusted horribly. They were really grabby, too. But they were half the price of the others.
I liked the Axxis Ultimates that I used to use on my other 2.5RS, but they dusted horribly. They were really grabby, too. But they were half the price of the others.
| JamesWilson | 09-28-2006 11:00 PM |
I never liked the initial bite of either the HPS or the HP+, ran them on most if not all of my autocross cars (CSP, ES, GS, STS, STS2, HS).....several good sources like the Bobcats for modulation. I only ran the Hawks because the used to require them to win their Contingency. Now its just a sticker for ProSolos.
My pick? Porterfield R4-S....good initial bite, great modulation, and can handle heat if you run them back-to-back on braking-intensive courses. Yeah, they dust and squeak when super-cold, but I think the performance outweighs the negatives. Love them on my E-Stock Porsche that also sees some higher-speed PCA events.
Porterfield even built me a set of R4-S shoes for the rear drums of the new H-Stock Impreza......brake job this weekend.
My pick? Porterfield R4-S....good initial bite, great modulation, and can handle heat if you run them back-to-back on braking-intensive courses. Yeah, they dust and squeak when super-cold, but I think the performance outweighs the negatives. Love them on my E-Stock Porsche that also sees some higher-speed PCA events.
Porterfield even built me a set of R4-S shoes for the rear drums of the new H-Stock Impreza......brake job this weekend.
| DrBiggly | 09-29-2006 01:23 PM |
edit: Dang, I already posted in this thread and basically said the same thing twice. :o
-Biggly
-Biggly
| ghschirtz | 09-29-2006 06:12 PM |
EBC Yellowstuff R's-use for track days and street.
Dusty, but quiet and effective.
If you live in the NE, you will likely need another pad in winter, but in CA they are fine all year round.
George:cool:
Dusty, but quiet and effective.
If you live in the NE, you will likely need another pad in winter, but in CA they are fine all year round.
George:cool:
| rallymaniac | 10-02-2006 01:12 PM |
Ok now my turn.
I had Axiss Ultimates - horrible pad, dusts like mad, fades very quickly.
Now i have HPS, month worh of driving, pretty much same feeling but less dust. Did 3 autox events on them and they're a bit better than Axiss but still lack in the fade dept.
I guess next set will be either HP+ or Proterfields :rolleyes:
I had Axiss Ultimates - horrible pad, dusts like mad, fades very quickly.
Now i have HPS, month worh of driving, pretty much same feeling but less dust. Did 3 autox events on them and they're a bit better than Axiss but still lack in the fade dept.
I guess next set will be either HP+ or Proterfields :rolleyes:
| Fred | 10-02-2006 06:37 PM |
Ummm... I've never faded a pad at an autox. :lol:
| rallymaniac | 10-04-2006 01:18 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15465804]Ummm... I've never faded a pad at an autox. :lol:[/QUOTE]
that's why i don't go to SCCA and other local AutoX where you don't get to get out of 1st gear :rolleyes:
At our last autoX I was topping of the 3rd :devil:
that's why i don't go to SCCA and other local AutoX where you don't get to get out of 1st gear :rolleyes:
At our last autoX I was topping of the 3rd :devil:
| Fred | 10-04-2006 06:14 PM |
I run 3rd gear courses all the time. If you're getting brake fade at an autox, it's either not a normal autox or you need to take your foot off the brake pedal periodically.
| semaj | 10-04-2006 07:46 PM |
[QUOTE=iamchris;15416273]yahitrlydoesdependonwhatuliekbcuzifuliek2breakharddenuwanthardbreakpadnifudontnliek2drievofcliffsdenudontwantbreaksatallk?[/QUOTE]
Gives me a headache. :p
Gives me a headache. :p
| rallymaniac | 10-04-2006 09:05 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15495670]I run 3rd gear courses all the time. If you're getting brake fade at an autox, it's either not a normal autox or you need to take your foot off the brake pedal periodically.[/QUOTE]
hey dude, the fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that no one else can get it. I'm inputing my experience with the particular pads. If you have different, don't comment on my experience since obviously your situation is different. Fact remains that i will never buy Axiss Ultimate nor Hawk HPS again.
hey dude, the fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that no one else can get it. I'm inputing my experience with the particular pads. If you have different, don't comment on my experience since obviously your situation is different. Fact remains that i will never buy Axiss Ultimate nor Hawk HPS again.
| Fred | 10-04-2006 10:59 PM |
Okay, then I'll share my own experience... :)
I had Axxis Ultimates on my 01 2.5RS for a while. Used them for autox, dd, and for my very first HPDE at VIR South. I got them to fade at VIR (about 2/3 into each session, each of which was about 29 minutes longer than the average THSCC autox run), but I wasn't racing anybody so I just had to take it easy for a couple of laps and then go back to normal. They dusted really bad and were pretty grabby during dd, so I didn't get any more after wearing out the first set.
I switched to Carbotech Bobcats on the 2.5RS for a while after the Ultimates, and they faded pretty badly at VIR Patriot. Glazed, too.
I like the way the Bobcats feel on the STi for street use, and they're perfectly fine for autox (I try to spend as little time as possible on the brakes there). I wouldn't use them at an HPDE again - especially on the STi. :lol:
I like the way the HPS front/ HP+ rear feel on my 2.5RS better than the way the Bobcats felt on my 2.5RS, although the squealing of the HP+ gets annoying sometimes on the street. The only dust I see on the RS wheels now is from dirt roads.
I had Porterfield R4S on the RS originally, but they dusted pretty bad, too. The Bobcats dust horribly compared to the HPS. I'll be getting HPS on the STi next time (if it keeps hanging around).
Is that better?
:lol:
Sorry if you were offended at my dismissal of your autox brake fade comment, but the only people I've ever met who complain about brake fade at autoxes are slow - partially because they spend too much time on the brakes. :lol: Not saying that you're slow, just describing my own experience.
I had Axxis Ultimates on my 01 2.5RS for a while. Used them for autox, dd, and for my very first HPDE at VIR South. I got them to fade at VIR (about 2/3 into each session, each of which was about 29 minutes longer than the average THSCC autox run), but I wasn't racing anybody so I just had to take it easy for a couple of laps and then go back to normal. They dusted really bad and were pretty grabby during dd, so I didn't get any more after wearing out the first set.
I switched to Carbotech Bobcats on the 2.5RS for a while after the Ultimates, and they faded pretty badly at VIR Patriot. Glazed, too.
I like the way the Bobcats feel on the STi for street use, and they're perfectly fine for autox (I try to spend as little time as possible on the brakes there). I wouldn't use them at an HPDE again - especially on the STi. :lol:
I like the way the HPS front/ HP+ rear feel on my 2.5RS better than the way the Bobcats felt on my 2.5RS, although the squealing of the HP+ gets annoying sometimes on the street. The only dust I see on the RS wheels now is from dirt roads.
I had Porterfield R4S on the RS originally, but they dusted pretty bad, too. The Bobcats dust horribly compared to the HPS. I'll be getting HPS on the STi next time (if it keeps hanging around).
Is that better?
:lol:
Sorry if you were offended at my dismissal of your autox brake fade comment, but the only people I've ever met who complain about brake fade at autoxes are slow - partially because they spend too much time on the brakes. :lol: Not saying that you're slow, just describing my own experience.
| Fred | 10-04-2006 11:04 PM |
Oh, forgot to mention that I faded the stock pads on my 05 WRX wagon by braking 5 times from around 100 to 60, just because I was curious. Stock pads suck.
But I never faded them at an autox... or even at a test & tune setup day where I ran the (loooong) course several times consecutively.
Maybe I'm just not pushing hard enough? :confused:
But I never faded them at an autox... or even at a test & tune setup day where I ran the (loooong) course several times consecutively.
Maybe I'm just not pushing hard enough? :confused:
| juste_frank | 10-04-2006 11:20 PM |
Ferrodo's DS3000 is the only pad I'm ever gonna use for trac days. I tried Porterfield R-4 and took them off after one lapping session: no initial bite and they fade like hell. With ferrodo I have great modulation, pedal feeling is great. Fading won't be an issue with those. Not cheap but really worth it!
| stil2stock | 10-04-2006 11:24 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15498898]
I like the way the HPS front/ HP+ rear feel on my 2.5RS better than the way the Bobcats felt on my 2.5RS,
[/QUOTE]
You put the better biting pad in the rear?! I've seen people do the opposite with nice results, never thought of the other way. why did you use that setup? just curious.
I've been using Hawk HPS for autox this season. MUCH better than stock, IMO, but would still like more bite and maybe a more linear feel. Its my daily though, so i'm reluctant to throw on the HP+. The HPS do seem to lose some performance when they get real hot (back to back runs in 90+ weather)
EDIT: i've gotten my HPS's to smoke at an AutoX school where we did ~40-0 stops over, and over, and over. Is that normal? anyone?
I like the way the HPS front/ HP+ rear feel on my 2.5RS better than the way the Bobcats felt on my 2.5RS,
[/QUOTE]
You put the better biting pad in the rear?! I've seen people do the opposite with nice results, never thought of the other way. why did you use that setup? just curious.
I've been using Hawk HPS for autox this season. MUCH better than stock, IMO, but would still like more bite and maybe a more linear feel. Its my daily though, so i'm reluctant to throw on the HP+. The HPS do seem to lose some performance when they get real hot (back to back runs in 90+ weather)
EDIT: i've gotten my HPS's to smoke at an AutoX school where we did ~40-0 stops over, and over, and over. Is that normal? anyone?
| Scooby921 | 10-05-2006 11:30 AM |
I used stock brakes for my first autocross. They worked fine as I was in inexperienced driver and didn't push my car to the extreme limits. This spring I upgraded to Hawk HPS pads. Felt little to no difference in braking. Most likely due to pushing the car harder.
Over the summer I upgraded to the Cobb BBK. The kit comes with the Cobb street pads. These pads are absolutely awesome! No warm-up time required on cold mornings and they have more stopping power and less fade than carbotech bobcats. While bedding...10 60-5mph stops did nothing to fade the Cobb pads. Just as strong from start to finish. The bobcats were fading after 5 stops! I also managed to get the bobcats to fade in an auto-x.
You'd have to check with Cobb to see if they make the pads for the Brembo calipers. If so...go for it. My only complaint is the dust.
Over the summer I upgraded to the Cobb BBK. The kit comes with the Cobb street pads. These pads are absolutely awesome! No warm-up time required on cold mornings and they have more stopping power and less fade than carbotech bobcats. While bedding...10 60-5mph stops did nothing to fade the Cobb pads. Just as strong from start to finish. The bobcats were fading after 5 stops! I also managed to get the bobcats to fade in an auto-x.
You'd have to check with Cobb to see if they make the pads for the Brembo calipers. If so...go for it. My only complaint is the dust.
| rallymaniac | 10-05-2006 12:32 PM |
[QUOTE=stil2stock;15499166]You put the better biting pad in the rear?! I've seen people do the opposite with nice results, never thought of the other way. why did you use that setup? just curious.
[/QUOTE]
yeah, i was wondering the same thing ?? :confused:
I still need to verify if i don't have brake issue with master cylinder since i put new fluid and bled the brakes but still i have some spongy pedal when i get on it hard. The first pedal move seems a bit spongy but about half way down it becomes firm, untill the brakes heat up :confused:
[/QUOTE]
yeah, i was wondering the same thing ?? :confused:
I still need to verify if i don't have brake issue with master cylinder since i put new fluid and bled the brakes but still i have some spongy pedal when i get on it hard. The first pedal move seems a bit spongy but about half way down it becomes firm, untill the brakes heat up :confused:
| tuskenraider | 10-05-2006 01:55 PM |
[QUOTE]yeah, i was wondering the same thing ??[/QUOTE] I've read that putting a "grippier" pad on back will help change some of the braking bias to the rear. Sorta like what the "H6" brake upgrade would do. This should help use more of the available rear traction and help prevent activating the ABS system as quickly in hard braking situations.
I used the stock pads when first autox'ing and didn't find them that horrible. I then went to Hawk HPS' and they were definately an improvement for the street and autox, but I brake late and hard, and I was constantly activating the ABS with them(yes, I know some of this is driver induced). I just switched to the Bobcats a month ago and they definately are more linear in feel and really have helped avoid ABS lockups. I will say I hated them after my first run on them, but I've picked up on their benefits. As a street pad, I think they're nothing special as I think the better initial bite the HPS have are more suited for street use.
I'm really interested myself in trying the HPS rears with the Bobcat fronts to move a little bias to the rear and use up some of the available traction out back that the stock system leaves on the table with matching pads. A poor man's H6 upgrade?
I used the stock pads when first autox'ing and didn't find them that horrible. I then went to Hawk HPS' and they were definately an improvement for the street and autox, but I brake late and hard, and I was constantly activating the ABS with them(yes, I know some of this is driver induced). I just switched to the Bobcats a month ago and they definately are more linear in feel and really have helped avoid ABS lockups. I will say I hated them after my first run on them, but I've picked up on their benefits. As a street pad, I think they're nothing special as I think the better initial bite the HPS have are more suited for street use.
I'm really interested myself in trying the HPS rears with the Bobcat fronts to move a little bias to the rear and use up some of the available traction out back that the stock system leaves on the table with matching pads. A poor man's H6 upgrade?
| crystalhelix | 10-05-2006 03:06 PM |
panther plus FTW..
| TubeDriver | 10-05-2006 04:10 PM |
XP8s have a silly large amount of initial cold bite, not too much dust, squeal and are pretty rotor friendly. Work well at the track, would be good for autoX as well. I drive my track beater Miata with XP8s all the time on the street with no issues.
Still, Panther+ are a step down for the track but probably my vote for all around autoX/street use.
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;15506707]panther plus FTW..[/QUOTE]
Still, Panther+ are a step down for the track but probably my vote for all around autoX/street use.
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;15506707]panther plus FTW..[/QUOTE]
| crystalhelix | 10-05-2006 04:13 PM |
the downside to the P+ is all the damn noise they make with my RB rotors....but I guess it's fine since I only really AX the car..
| Warp3 | 10-05-2006 05:17 PM |
[QUOTE=crystalhelix;15507625]the downside to the P+ is all the damn noise they make with my RB rotors....but I guess it's fine since I only really AX the car..[/QUOTE]
Tell me about it, I've got the Panther P+ / RacingBrake slotted rotor combo on my 99RS. I swear people must think I drive around with shot brakes when I pull to a stop beside them with a {SCREEEEEEEEEECH}. :lol:
As for the original topic, I had great luck with the Bobcats at autocross on my 99RS, the only reason I swapped the Panthers on is that the track (especially CMP) causes smoke to magically appear from Bobcats. :lol:
Not sure what I'll run on the WRX TR yet, but the Bobcats are the most likely choice at the moment (once I wear the stockers out anyway).
Tell me about it, I've got the Panther P+ / RacingBrake slotted rotor combo on my 99RS. I swear people must think I drive around with shot brakes when I pull to a stop beside them with a {SCREEEEEEEEEECH}. :lol:
As for the original topic, I had great luck with the Bobcats at autocross on my 99RS, the only reason I swapped the Panthers on is that the track (especially CMP) causes smoke to magically appear from Bobcats. :lol:
Not sure what I'll run on the WRX TR yet, but the Bobcats are the most likely choice at the moment (once I wear the stockers out anyway).
| Fred | 10-05-2006 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE]EDIT: i've gotten my HPS's to smoke at an AutoX school where we did ~40-0 stops over, and over, and over. Is that normal? anyone?[/QUOTE]
No, it's not normal to do multiple 40-0 stops at an autox school. :p
[QUOTE]You put the better biting pad in the rear?! I've seen people do the opposite with nice results, never thought of the other way. why did you use that setup? just curious.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]yeah, i was wondering the same thing ??[/QUOTE]
Think, people. How much fun is it to have the front brakes lock before the rears? :)
Almost everything that's not stock on my RS at this point is there to make it a better rallyx car - including the brake setup.
No, it's not normal to do multiple 40-0 stops at an autox school. :p
[QUOTE]You put the better biting pad in the rear?! I've seen people do the opposite with nice results, never thought of the other way. why did you use that setup? just curious.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]yeah, i was wondering the same thing ??[/QUOTE]
Think, people. How much fun is it to have the front brakes lock before the rears? :)
Almost everything that's not stock on my RS at this point is there to make it a better rallyx car - including the brake setup.
| orbit03 | 10-05-2006 09:32 PM |
Another vote for the Porterfield R4-S. They are a great pad.
In the rally cars, I usually run Hawk Black pads, but they are too aggressive for mild use like auto-x.
In the rally cars, I usually run Hawk Black pads, but they are too aggressive for mild use like auto-x.
| rallymaniac | 10-06-2006 11:37 AM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15511592]No, it's not normal to do multiple 40-0 stops at an autox school. :p
Think, people. How much fun is it to have the front brakes lock before the rears? :)
Almost everything that's not stock on my RS at this point is there to make it a better rallyx car - including the brake setup.[/QUOTE]
if you lock the front wheels while braking that usually means that it's time to change tire for something more grippy. As for the usage of better pad in the rear i still don't understand why you would like to lock your back wheels under hard braking since there is like no weight there in the back.
Some of you say that you brake late and hard and are doing fine with stock pads. I don't know but to me it sounds like either part of this type of statement is not entirely true because i know my stock pads were shot after 3 miles of "canyon road" :rolleyes: Once they overheated, it took them very little to fade.
Think, people. How much fun is it to have the front brakes lock before the rears? :)
Almost everything that's not stock on my RS at this point is there to make it a better rallyx car - including the brake setup.[/QUOTE]
if you lock the front wheels while braking that usually means that it's time to change tire for something more grippy. As for the usage of better pad in the rear i still don't understand why you would like to lock your back wheels under hard braking since there is like no weight there in the back.
Some of you say that you brake late and hard and are doing fine with stock pads. I don't know but to me it sounds like either part of this type of statement is not entirely true because i know my stock pads were shot after 3 miles of "canyon road" :rolleyes: Once they overheated, it took them very little to fade.
| Fred | 10-07-2006 09:07 PM |
Well, I can report on the Bobcats that are on my STi now.
The wife brought the STi up to VIR last night so I could run it in the "Tarzan's Lap Battle" at GT Live. (I was helping the NASA crew with the rallyx, and had taken the 2.5RS myself) Ran the Patriot Course autox-style, starting at pit-in, making a U-turn (with tires screaming :D ), then heading out through the track in the normal clockwise direction. Finish was in the fast right-hander just before the pit-entrance. Slow down, pull back in to pit at pit exit.
Bobcats stopped the car extremely well throughout the entire lap, each lap, with a few minutes in line before going out each time. After about 5 or 6 laps in a row, pushing pretty hard, the pads told me they needed to cool off a while when I braked after the finish to go into the pit. No drama, just had to push the pedal a little harder - it was just a noticeable difference.
I was braking pretty hard and late, hitting rev limiter in 4th gear before slowing for the reverse spiral and at the end of the back straight before the autox section, and close to rev limit at the finish. Lap times were among the fastest of the day, and within a second of Rankins' well-prepared 06 STi (my 04 is stock plus a few upgraded bushings). So yes, Bobcats will take some pretty hard abuse. I wouldn't want to do more than a few consecutive laps with them, though.
So I don't expect to ever have a problem with them at a lowly autox. :lol:
The wife brought the STi up to VIR last night so I could run it in the "Tarzan's Lap Battle" at GT Live. (I was helping the NASA crew with the rallyx, and had taken the 2.5RS myself) Ran the Patriot Course autox-style, starting at pit-in, making a U-turn (with tires screaming :D ), then heading out through the track in the normal clockwise direction. Finish was in the fast right-hander just before the pit-entrance. Slow down, pull back in to pit at pit exit.
Bobcats stopped the car extremely well throughout the entire lap, each lap, with a few minutes in line before going out each time. After about 5 or 6 laps in a row, pushing pretty hard, the pads told me they needed to cool off a while when I braked after the finish to go into the pit. No drama, just had to push the pedal a little harder - it was just a noticeable difference.
I was braking pretty hard and late, hitting rev limiter in 4th gear before slowing for the reverse spiral and at the end of the back straight before the autox section, and close to rev limit at the finish. Lap times were among the fastest of the day, and within a second of Rankins' well-prepared 06 STi (my 04 is stock plus a few upgraded bushings). So yes, Bobcats will take some pretty hard abuse. I wouldn't want to do more than a few consecutive laps with them, though.
So I don't expect to ever have a problem with them at a lowly autox. :lol:
| Fred | 10-07-2006 09:20 PM |
[QUOTE]if you lock the front wheels while braking that usually means that it's time to change tire for something more grippy. As for the usage of better pad in the rear i still don't understand why you would like to lock your back wheels under hard braking since there is like no weight there in the back.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand the first sentence. I thought if you locked the brakes, you were pushing too hard on the brake pedal and need to ease up a little. :confused:
As for the brake setup on my RS, I'm not an expert in the theory of race car setup, I just like to think about different setups, try them, and if it feels good I'll leave it that way. If it doesn't, I'll try something else. I like the way the brakes work on my car. :) Maybe somebody else can explain the why in detail.
I don't understand the first sentence. I thought if you locked the brakes, you were pushing too hard on the brake pedal and need to ease up a little. :confused:
As for the brake setup on my RS, I'm not an expert in the theory of race car setup, I just like to think about different setups, try them, and if it feels good I'll leave it that way. If it doesn't, I'll try something else. I like the way the brakes work on my car. :) Maybe somebody else can explain the why in detail.
| SammyRex | 10-07-2006 09:38 PM |
one more vote for Porterfield R4-S.
The only performance pad I have tried, but I think they are great.
They dont fade, instead, I often feel the R4-S pads need to be pre-heated.
The higher the temperature, the better the bites. They do dust lots,
and squeak when heated bad. But the performance out weights the dust and
noise issue as they helped me lots in many auto-x.
Sammy
The only performance pad I have tried, but I think they are great.
They dont fade, instead, I often feel the R4-S pads need to be pre-heated.
The higher the temperature, the better the bites. They do dust lots,
and squeak when heated bad. But the performance out weights the dust and
noise issue as they helped me lots in many auto-x.
Sammy
| bcblues | 10-07-2006 10:39 PM |
CarboTech Bobcats work great for AX. For track work they do fade after a couple laps, but are WAY better than stock. Up here in the fridgid north, if I want to run the same pads year round, it has to be Bobcats. The Bobcats are also great for lack of brake dust! ++
| elirentz | 10-08-2006 08:28 PM |
I have carbotech panther +'s and like others have said they dust and squeek but man do they stop. They've worked great for me auto-xing and had friends with other sti's with bobcats be amazed at their stopping power.
| rallymaniac | 10-13-2006 05:39 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;15531708]I don't understand the first sentence. I thought if you locked the brakes, you were pushing too hard on the brake pedal and need to ease up a little. :confused:
.[/QUOTE]
If you lock your wheels in the snow or ice does that mean you were pushing too hard on the brake?? No.
The point of the lock depends on the amount of the traction you get from your tires. On the dry you can brake much harder since the tires hold better.
Try putting a real slick like hoosier or some rally slick on your car and once you warm up the compound you won't be able to lock your wheels, since your tires will outperform your brakes.
.[/QUOTE]
If you lock your wheels in the snow or ice does that mean you were pushing too hard on the brake?? No.
The point of the lock depends on the amount of the traction you get from your tires. On the dry you can brake much harder since the tires hold better.
Try putting a real slick like hoosier or some rally slick on your car and once you warm up the compound you won't be able to lock your wheels, since your tires will outperform your brakes.
| KNS Brakes | 10-13-2006 10:45 PM |
[quote=Fred;15531708]I don't understand the first sentence. I thought if you locked the brakes, you were pushing too hard on the brake pedal and need to ease up a little. :confused:
As for the brake setup on my RS, I'm not an expert in the theory of race car setup, I just like to think about different setups, try them, and if it feels good I'll leave it that way. If it doesn't, I'll try something else. I like the way the brakes work on my car. :) Maybe somebody else can explain the why in detail.[/quote]
More rear brake should be helping you rotate (spin) the car under trail braking.
As for the brake setup on my RS, I'm not an expert in the theory of race car setup, I just like to think about different setups, try them, and if it feels good I'll leave it that way. If it doesn't, I'll try something else. I like the way the brakes work on my car. :) Maybe somebody else can explain the why in detail.[/quote]
More rear brake should be helping you rotate (spin) the car under trail braking.
| Fred | 10-14-2006 10:07 AM |
[QUOTE]Try putting a real slick like hoosier or some rally slick on your car and once you warm up the compound you won't be able to lock your wheels, since your tires will outperform your brakes.[/QUOTE]
:huh:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
So nobody's ever flatspotted a Hoosier, eh?
:huh:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
So nobody's ever flatspotted a Hoosier, eh?
| rallymaniac | 10-14-2006 09:44 PM |
we have a guy at our autox that came recently on Michelin N22 rally slick.
I was talking to him about how he likes the tires and his setup with suspension and he is now thinking about better brakes since his stock STi ones are not keeping up with the tire.
Of course if you have a race car with big brakes and racing tire you can lock the wheels.
I was talking to him about how he likes the tires and his setup with suspension and he is now thinking about better brakes since his stock STi ones are not keeping up with the tire.
Of course if you have a race car with big brakes and racing tire you can lock the wheels.
| tuskenraider | 10-15-2006 12:49 AM |
[QUOTE]As for the usage of better pad in the rear i still don't understand why you would like to lock your back wheels under hard braking since there is like no weight there in the back.[/QUOTE] The intention is even up the lockup point between the front and rear since it seems the WRX typically locks the fronts up first(which I've seen during plenty of corner working). Meaning the rear might be able to provide a little more stopping power that is unused in the stock bias.
| bcblues | 10-15-2006 10:49 AM |
WRX's have a dorky ABS system (at least they did with my 02 model year). It created some really challenging braking moments in AX, but even more scary were some street driving moments, like braking heavily over a RR track for instance. SCARY! New pad help out A LOT, as do R-compound tires, but that dorky ABS is still there ready to haunt you......
| orbit03 | 10-15-2006 07:09 PM |
[QUOTE=bcblues;15618041]WRX's have a dorky ABS system (at least they did with my 02 model year). It created some really challenging braking moments in AX, but even more scary were some street driving moments, like braking heavily over a RR track for instance. SCARY! New pad help out A LOT, as do R-compound tires, but that dorky ABS is still there ready to haunt you......[/QUOTE]
That is why I unplugged mine for the longest time. I felt more comfortable without ABS. Even in winter.
That is why I unplugged mine for the longest time. I felt more comfortable without ABS. Even in winter.
| rallymaniac | 10-18-2006 03:48 PM |
[QUOTE=bcblues;15618041]WRX's have a dorky ABS system (at least they did with my 02 model year). It created some really challenging braking moments in AX, but even more scary were some street driving moments, like braking heavily over a RR track for instance. SCARY! New pad help out A LOT, as do R-compound tires, but that dorky ABS is still there ready to haunt you......[/QUOTE]
exactly what the person above me said. Unplug your ABS or go to the dealer and have them upgrade your ABS ECU. I disconnected mine long ago and have no more problems braking. I still insist that if you're locking your front wheels than you have tire rather than brake problem.
exactly what the person above me said. Unplug your ABS or go to the dealer and have them upgrade your ABS ECU. I disconnected mine long ago and have no more problems braking. I still insist that if you're locking your front wheels than you have tire rather than brake problem.
| tuskenraider | 10-18-2006 05:10 PM |
[QUOTE] I still insist that if you're locking your front wheels than you have tire rather than brake problem.[/QUOTE] Well if you're racing in a street tire class, competing on the grippiest street tires available, we have a built-in problem of limited traction so small changes in brake setup can have a big effect. And if you drive on the street, well................
| Crash477 | 10-18-2006 07:35 PM |
I had bobcats on my 2002 2.5RS front and rear, and they were more than enough. However, at teh Dragon they were literally smoking after a run. With my 2002 WRX I had bocats for a while, then went to the Panther + pads in the front and bobcats in teh rear. That was amazing for autox. Absolutely plenty of brake! THe initial bite was great, and it stayed! Never faded for autox. When I went to CMP in April I experience some fade, but that was mostly cause I was using the brakes wrong. I wore the pads out that weekend, so I switched to Hawk HP Plus for the front, with he bobcats on the rear. Again, a great combo for autox!! But when I went back to CMP in September I wasnt as impressed with the Hawks as I was with the Carbotechs. The Hawks did great for the first day, but the initial bite wasnt as good, but the over pedal felt great. The wear was horrible. The Hawks were mostly new, and I destroyed them in 2 days!!! afte the first session the 2nd day, the pad material was literally crumbling off the backing plate. The wear of the Carbotechs was much better!!
Now, with that said, I am a very late braker, and extremely hard on brakes. I wont go back to CMP until I get some brake ducting in.
For autox, I love the Carbotech or Hawk combo!
Now, with that said, I am a very late braker, and extremely hard on brakes. I wont go back to CMP until I get some brake ducting in.
For autox, I love the Carbotech or Hawk combo!
| KNS Brakes | 10-18-2006 09:51 PM |
Excessive pad wear is a sure sign that you are overheating the pads. Run some higher heat pads that fit the usage and they cost more but should last much longer so in the end you save money - and brake better.
| Crash477 | 10-18-2006 10:55 PM |
I totally agree. The pads arent enough for the type of braker I am. lol
| SkylineR35GTRx | 05-16-2007 03:25 AM |
Hey I am researching brake pads and was wondering if I'm getting this right..
Porterfield R4S will dust more than Carbotech Bobcats, and also have more noise?
Which one out of these two will be easier on the rotors?
I'm stuck between the Poterfield R4S and Carbotech Bobcats and the Hawk HP+, all are the same price range, so it's really hard to choose.
This will be for my daily driver/autox car, no track days yet. Dust I don't mind since any of these will dust less than the stock right? And squeek I can live with.
Porterfield R4S will dust more than Carbotech Bobcats, and also have more noise?
Which one out of these two will be easier on the rotors?
I'm stuck between the Poterfield R4S and Carbotech Bobcats and the Hawk HP+, all are the same price range, so it's really hard to choose.
This will be for my daily driver/autox car, no track days yet. Dust I don't mind since any of these will dust less than the stock right? And squeek I can live with.
| Vlad | 05-18-2008 07:46 PM |
I was wondering about changing braking bias more towards the rear, via brake pads, as well.
A while ago, I've tried EBC greenstuff in the front, for my wrx. They sucked in competitive driving conditions, but did have an unusually high friction coefficient. The initial brake bite was unusually strong, then afterwards tapering quickly.
Now, on the rear brakes though, it's a different story.
Due to how beaking systems are set-up, I think you would want "cold" brake pads there, something with great grip even at lower temperatures, because they may never heat up as much as the fronts.
I was unhappy with how my brakes worked on my diesel mercedes and decided to try EBC green rears there. They are a great success.
Basically, these pads are too much for the front and will overheat themselves and the rotor, but excelent in the rear.
They get the rears to work like bigger brakes.
Meanwhile, though, EBC has discontinued the greenstuff completely, for the WRX.
I was wondering if the yellowstuff maintains that initial bite of the greenstuff. I guess I'll ask EBC
A while ago, I've tried EBC greenstuff in the front, for my wrx. They sucked in competitive driving conditions, but did have an unusually high friction coefficient. The initial brake bite was unusually strong, then afterwards tapering quickly.
Now, on the rear brakes though, it's a different story.
Due to how beaking systems are set-up, I think you would want "cold" brake pads there, something with great grip even at lower temperatures, because they may never heat up as much as the fronts.
I was unhappy with how my brakes worked on my diesel mercedes and decided to try EBC green rears there. They are a great success.
Basically, these pads are too much for the front and will overheat themselves and the rotor, but excelent in the rear.
They get the rears to work like bigger brakes.
Meanwhile, though, EBC has discontinued the greenstuff completely, for the WRX.
I was wondering if the yellowstuff maintains that initial bite of the greenstuff. I guess I'll ask EBC
| Scooby South | 05-18-2008 09:40 PM |
On my 05 BSP Car I ran Stock Rears....but after the stockers went...I was on Performance Friction 97 compound...:)...I love the Stab brake/ trail brake of these pads...Not to hard on the rotors..and does not upset the balance of the car....some brake pads throws the car out of balance when you try to modulate them for sweepers....entry before a slalom etc.... These Absolutely rock ..:D
From their site..
[QUOTE]97 Compound
This compound was designed as an all-purpose pad where excellent controllability was a priority over ultimate stopping power. Due to its excellent modulation characteristics, this pad has proved very popular with race schools, rallying, and as a rear pad for applications such as touring cars. 97 has the lowest wear of all compounds, typically providing two to three times more life expectancy than competitors. This compound can also dramatically extend disc life.
97 is a medium torque race compound and as a result can provide reduced brake temperatures in situations where poor cooling can result in premature disc failure. 97 has the flattest torque curve of all the Performance Friction compounds. Effective from 167�F and reach 2000�F (75�C, reach 1100�C), 97 uses Performance Friction�s unique lubrication package that maintains a minimal transfer layer on the disc to help prevent brake judder and provide excellent release properties, therefore reducing overall drag in the brake system. 97 is extremely easy on the discs with very low wear.
97 is now being used in Bondurant, Derek Daley, Dale Jarrett Driving Adventure, Panoz, Mid Ohio, and Jim Russell racing schools because of it's long wear vs. performance vs. control and modulation.[/QUOTE]
From their site..
[QUOTE]97 Compound
This compound was designed as an all-purpose pad where excellent controllability was a priority over ultimate stopping power. Due to its excellent modulation characteristics, this pad has proved very popular with race schools, rallying, and as a rear pad for applications such as touring cars. 97 has the lowest wear of all compounds, typically providing two to three times more life expectancy than competitors. This compound can also dramatically extend disc life.
97 is a medium torque race compound and as a result can provide reduced brake temperatures in situations where poor cooling can result in premature disc failure. 97 has the flattest torque curve of all the Performance Friction compounds. Effective from 167�F and reach 2000�F (75�C, reach 1100�C), 97 uses Performance Friction�s unique lubrication package that maintains a minimal transfer layer on the disc to help prevent brake judder and provide excellent release properties, therefore reducing overall drag in the brake system. 97 is extremely easy on the discs with very low wear.
97 is now being used in Bondurant, Derek Daley, Dale Jarrett Driving Adventure, Panoz, Mid Ohio, and Jim Russell racing schools because of it's long wear vs. performance vs. control and modulation.[/QUOTE]
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