| Wr4wrX | 06-22-2005 03:45 PM |
BMW F1 Factory Team!!!
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OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! BMW F1!!!
[url]http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33223[/url]
:)
[url]http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33223[/url]
:)
| artkevin | 06-22-2005 03:47 PM |
Lets see if they can put their money where their mouth has been the past couple of months. I love BMW and I love Willaims but they have both been playing th blame game for too long now. We will now see who has the best race package except whatever car comes out next year will really be the Suaber C28, not a full fledge BMW. Should be beautiful though.
KP
KP
| Wr4wrX | 06-22-2005 04:00 PM |
I'm curious to see if BMW's 2006 car will languish a little or surprise everybody like the Red Bulls did this season. I hope for the latter. :)
| BillT | 06-22-2005 04:05 PM |
Great move for BMW - they waited until Sauber got their wind tunnel before buying them out so they could do pretty much everything inhouse.
| AndyRoo | 06-22-2005 04:36 PM |
yay F1 news that doesnt have to do with Indy!
this is pretty cool...any ideas who will supply engines to Williams next year?
this is pretty cool...any ideas who will supply engines to Williams next year?
| BillT | 06-22-2005 04:37 PM |
I think I read that BMW will offer to supply them engines.
| artkevin | 06-22-2005 04:57 PM |
BMW has offered to continue to supply Williams. I don't know if ther is any deal yet but WIlliams has not been happy and I have heard rumors of Honda power for next year.
| SolbergWRCfan | 06-22-2005 05:59 PM |
I heard that Williams will actually get their engines from Toyota. Honda has already stated that they are not going to be able to make engines for another team next year. I would like to see Williams keep BMW power but I highly doubt it will happen as that relationship is basically over now. I am guessing next year's Sauber won't be all that quick but we'll see. It will also be interesting to see how this shakes up the driver lineup. Nick H. will most likely follow BMW with Felipe Massa (Ferrari protege) getting the boot. I don't think BMW will keep Villeneuve either though, but who knows? Ah, the silly season begins!!!
Jon
Jon
| Wr4wrX | 06-22-2005 06:05 PM |
I wonder what the BMW F1 team colors will be. No way they're going to keep the Sauber colors. Will Williams give BMW the white and navy color scheme? What if BMW continues to supply Williams with engines...then who gets the colors? If BMW doesn't supply Williams with engines, and Williams goes with Honda, you think Williams-Honda will go white and red? But Toyota is white and red! Hehehehehe. Sorry, this isn't that important, but I think it's cool when teams get new liveries. :)
| driggity | 06-22-2005 07:09 PM |
This will be very cool if they can make the team more competitive. More battles at the front is always a good thing.
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-22-2005 07:31 PM |
NOW I FINALLY HAVE A TEAM OF MY OWN!!!!
The only thing that would take me away from this team would be an opposed motor in F1
Way to go BMW !!!!
Good luck.
The only thing that would take me away from this team would be an opposed motor in F1
Way to go BMW !!!!
Good luck.
| artkevin | 06-22-2005 08:07 PM |
BMW made Williams paint the cars blue and white along with all the other sponsors on it so I think the colors will go to Sauber. I stil think that the Williams had the most cohesive design. I have NO clue what color the William's will get. Strange days ahead, very strange.
KP
KP
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-22-2005 08:25 PM |
Strange days ahead is right.
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me
| Wr4wrX | 06-22-2005 09:09 PM |
[QUOTE=parker/slc/gc8fan]NOW I FINALLY HAVE A TEAM OF MY OWN!!!![/QUOTE]
Hahahaha, yup!! Me too! :)
[QUOTE=artkevin]BMW made Williams paint the cars blue and white along with all the other sponsors on it so I think the colors will go to Sauber. I stil think that the Williams had the most cohesive design. I have NO clue what color the William's will get. Strange days ahead, very strange.
KP[/QUOTE]
:) I love the white and blue. Soooo hot.
Hahahaha, yup!! Me too! :)
[QUOTE=artkevin]BMW made Williams paint the cars blue and white along with all the other sponsors on it so I think the colors will go to Sauber. I stil think that the Williams had the most cohesive design. I have NO clue what color the William's will get. Strange days ahead, very strange.
KP[/QUOTE]
:) I love the white and blue. Soooo hot.
| Nick325xiT 5spd | 06-22-2005 11:01 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]BMW has offered to continue to supply Williams. I don't know if ther is any deal yet but WIlliams has not been happy and I have heard rumors of Honda power for next year.[/QUOTE]
The rumors I've heard implied Toyota power. I wonder if Button is contractually bound to move to Williams? Seems like a pretty iffy move to me at this point...
The rumors I've heard implied Toyota power. I wonder if Button is contractually bound to move to Williams? Seems like a pretty iffy move to me at this point...
| Nick325xiT 5spd | 06-22-2005 11:06 PM |
[QUOTE=parker/slc/gc8fan]Strange days ahead is right.
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me[/QUOTE]
The fact of the matter is that even if they really do start a GPWC series, they'll still need the existing teams. And inertia will keep them with the FIA. Let's just hope that someone manages to kick out Ecclestone and Mosley.
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me[/QUOTE]
The fact of the matter is that even if they really do start a GPWC series, they'll still need the existing teams. And inertia will keep them with the FIA. Let's just hope that someone manages to kick out Ecclestone and Mosley.
| chaddeus | 06-23-2005 02:37 AM |
[QUOTE=SolbergWRCfan]I heard that Williams will actually get their engines from Toyota. Honda has already stated that they are not going to be able to make engines for another team next year. I would like to see Williams keep BMW power but I highly doubt it will happen as that relationship is basically over now. I am guessing next year's Sauber won't be all that quick but we'll see. It will also be interesting to see how this shakes up the driver lineup. Nick H. will most likely follow BMW with Felipe Massa (Ferrari protege) getting the boot. I don't think BMW will keep Villeneuve either though, but who knows? Ah, the silly season begins!!!
Jon[/QUOTE]
Do you mind if you could tell us where you hear about that Williams is going to use Toyota Engine?
- Charles
Jon[/QUOTE]
Do you mind if you could tell us where you hear about that Williams is going to use Toyota Engine?
- Charles
| chaddeus | 06-23-2005 02:41 AM |
[QUOTE=parker/slc/gc8fan]Strange days ahead is right.
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me[/QUOTE]
How did you come out with your conclusion from? The concord agreement isn't dead just because of the indy problem and F1 will be here for a long time. Even if all the 9 teams form their own GP series, F1 will continue to attract other teams to join. I dont see a big threat in F1 unless of course those people who are supporting the 9 teams who threaten to leave F1.
- Charles
It's almost like no one realizes that the concord agreement is dead. and F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die.
Thats what really worries me[/QUOTE]
How did you come out with your conclusion from? The concord agreement isn't dead just because of the indy problem and F1 will be here for a long time. Even if all the 9 teams form their own GP series, F1 will continue to attract other teams to join. I dont see a big threat in F1 unless of course those people who are supporting the 9 teams who threaten to leave F1.
- Charles
| parker/slc/gc8fan | 06-23-2005 11:09 AM |
I'm not a fan of 2.4 litler V8's, non-ceramic brakes, Regulated tuning, fully mechanincal transmisions, etc.
Has no one noticed how much Bernie eccleleston and Max Mosely are trying to save costs? I'm not seeing it.
Of course we will still have F1 in a couple of years, you might want to re-read my post. "F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die."
Has no one noticed how much Bernie eccleleston and Max Mosely are trying to save costs? I'm not seeing it.
Of course we will still have F1 in a couple of years, you might want to re-read my post. "F1 as we've known it for the last 20 + years is going to die."
| artkevin | 06-23-2005 11:20 AM |
Jackie Stewart said something during the USGP broadcast that made a lot of sense. He basically said the cars he was racing in his day were the Star Wars tech of the day. F1 has always been at the leading edge of tech and doesn't see why we have to go back to level of the cars circa 1975 to make a better series. He only wants to see traction control go away, and I agree. He feels the drivers are all good enough to control wheel spin on their own and it would create more excitement/mistakes coming out of corners.
| Bottom Feeder | 06-23-2005 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE=chaddeus]How did you come out with your conclusion from? The concord agreement isn't dead just because of the indy problem and F1 will be here for a long time. Even if all the 9 teams form their own GP series, F1 will continue to attract other teams to join. I dont see a big threat in F1 unless of course those people who are supporting the 9 teams who threaten to leave F1.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Why are you connecting what he said to the Indy fiasco? He didn't, so I don't know why you are. The Concorde agreement is set to expire in a year or two. That has nothing at all to do with Indy.
- Charles[/QUOTE]
Why are you connecting what he said to the Indy fiasco? He didn't, so I don't know why you are. The Concorde agreement is set to expire in a year or two. That has nothing at all to do with Indy.
| Focal1 | 06-23-2005 03:45 PM |
I agree with jackie stewart's idea. It should be top of the line technology, let them use more than 1 pair of tyres, let them use slicks rather than grooved tires, but make them control the cars themselves. Then the drivers will become limiting factors, they could make a faster car, but the driver couldn't handle it, so the driver who has the best skills can handle the best car and will win.
| Hawkeye | 06-23-2005 04:02 PM |
I thought they have mechanical traction control not computer controlled. Wouldn't this be hard to get rid of?
I am not to up with all the in's and out's of F1 rules. But who is?
I am not to up with all the in's and out's of F1 rules. But who is?
| Bottom Feeder | 06-23-2005 04:28 PM |
[QUOTE=Hawkeye]I thought they have mechanical traction control not computer controlled.[/QUOTE]
They have had access to electronic traction control for over a decade now.
They have had access to electronic traction control for over a decade now.
| bemani | 06-23-2005 04:41 PM |
Will they oust JV? Can't wait to find out!
| Hawkeye | 06-23-2005 04:48 PM |
[QUOTE=Bottom Feeder]They have had access to electronic traction control for over a decade now.[/QUOTE]
I know that. But I thought they made it against the rules again. And now they just use a mechanical line lock type device.
Nevermind: Traction control they have. Launch Control is gone.
I know that. But I thought they made it against the rules again. And now they just use a mechanical line lock type device.
Nevermind: Traction control they have. Launch Control is gone.
| Bottom Feeder | 06-23-2005 05:44 PM |
[QUOTE=Hawkeye]Nevermind: Traction control they have. Launch Control is gone.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure, but I think you have that backwards.
I'm not sure, but I think you have that backwards.
| Dussander | 06-23-2005 05:49 PM |
Nope, correct. They have traction control coming out of the turns. You can hear it as the low frequency noise coming from the cars that just doesn't sound the same over tv. Launch control is gone, but Renault is still very good at launches.
| mmorningstar | 06-23-2005 05:57 PM |
BMW will drown, just as Ford/Jaguar did. You will see, they can't even build a motor to be competitive in F1, much less a chasis....let the flaming begin....
| Wr4wrX | 06-23-2005 06:26 PM |
[QUOTE=mmorningstar]BMW will drown, just as Ford/Jaguar did. You will see, they can't even build a motor to be competitive in F1, much less a chasis....let the flaming begin....[/QUOTE]
I don't want to argue, but I'm curious on what basis you've made your assertions. My impression is that BMW engines are generally considered one of the more powerful and reliable F1 engines. Furthermore, I tend to read that Williams lacks the aerodynamic insight of most teams (particularly illustrated by 2004's walrus tusk nose design). Granted I have only followed F1 for a couple seasons, but I recall always reading in the beginning of each season that Williams lacks the proper aero which they say they will improve over the course of the season.
Perhaps you could shed some light on why you don't think BMW's engines are not or will not be competitive. (Maybe your real name is Sam Michael or Patrick Head? ;))
I don't want to argue, but I'm curious on what basis you've made your assertions. My impression is that BMW engines are generally considered one of the more powerful and reliable F1 engines. Furthermore, I tend to read that Williams lacks the aerodynamic insight of most teams (particularly illustrated by 2004's walrus tusk nose design). Granted I have only followed F1 for a couple seasons, but I recall always reading in the beginning of each season that Williams lacks the proper aero which they say they will improve over the course of the season.
Perhaps you could shed some light on why you don't think BMW's engines are not or will not be competitive. (Maybe your real name is Sam Michael or Patrick Head? ;))
| artkevin | 06-23-2005 07:42 PM |
BMW has slowly been getting past up in the hp race by the likes of Ferrari Honda and Toyota, at least from padock rumors. The Walrus thingys were a good idea pioneered by the aero person from Ferrari, a woman, I forget her name but its Italian. She knew what she was doing but got it wrong. I think most of the noise abot the Williams lack of aero preformance has been coming from BMW itself. "We are not winning becuase you can't get the aero right." NO "we are not winning becuase you can't build a engine thats last a GP weekend". And so on. I personally think its not as bad as both of them say about the other but true for sure.
KP
KP
| OnTheGas | 06-23-2005 11:52 PM |
Another Car Company Will Build Chassis & Motor
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For many, many seasons, there was only one F1 team that made both the [b]chassis[/b] and the [b]motor[/b]. (Hint, they use much red paint.)
But now we will have 4 teams who build both the chassis and the motor:[list][*][b]Renault[/b][*][b]Toyota[/b][*][b]BMW[/b][*][b]Ferrari[/b][/list]
It is perhaps a turning of the page in F1 history.
3 and 4 decades ago, we had "garagistas"... folks who bolted whatever engines they could purchase, in to their chassis (which may have started life as a WWII belly tank off a plane). These folks were building and designing their chassis in little shops (or garages, hence "garagistas"). Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell, Jack Brabahm, Bruce McLaren, and many others were garagistas.
As the technology in F1 advanced rapidly in the 1980s, it became wise to find a car company who wanted to build a motor just for your chassis. Car manufacturers had massive dollars for research and developement, as well as engineers, and facilities. Another advantage of working closely with a "sole-source" engine company was that the chassis and engine could be designed around each other to obtain better center of gravity, aerodynamics, etc.
But now, the automotive companies want to build the chassis as well. BMW Motorsport's Director, Dr Mario Theissen gives his perspecive on why this is happening:
[quote][i][URL=http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/1_news/11_news/meldungen/050622.4ml]Mario Theissen[/URL][/i]
[b]The realignment of our Formula One strategy is based on two insights. Firstly, the influence of the engine on the winning potential of the overall package has diminished; the car, tyres and drivers play a greater role than they used to.
Secondly, from our point of view, an optimal overall package can only be achieved with a fully integrated team and coherent processes throughout.[/b][/quote]
For BMW Motorsport, as BillT mentioned earlier, this is a very good move. Sauber has some of the best facilities in F1, including their [URL=http://www.sauber-petronas.com/en/sauber/windkanal/]new 60% scale wind tunnel[/URL], a [URL=http://www.sauber-petronas.com/en/sauber/albert/]new super computer[/URL], and an experienced, 300 person strong staff who are known for being smart, efficient, and creative. Their primary weakness this season has been money. They had enjoyed a long relationship w/Red Bull as their primary sponser. Previously, they have finished as high as 4th in the World Constructors Championship.
Their key to success will be money... Perhaps BMW may bring a sponsor or two with them from Williams... And Sauber is fairly good at finding sponsors as well. Having BMW as the name of their team will surely be a benefit when courting sponsers. But with easy nicotine dollars being regulated away by F1's venues, finding the dollars is more difficult these days.
I wish BMW success as strong competitors!
But now we will have 4 teams who build both the chassis and the motor:[list][*][b]Renault[/b][*][b]Toyota[/b][*][b]BMW[/b][*][b]Ferrari[/b][/list]
It is perhaps a turning of the page in F1 history.
3 and 4 decades ago, we had "garagistas"... folks who bolted whatever engines they could purchase, in to their chassis (which may have started life as a WWII belly tank off a plane). These folks were building and designing their chassis in little shops (or garages, hence "garagistas"). Frank Williams, Ken Tyrrell, Jack Brabahm, Bruce McLaren, and many others were garagistas.
As the technology in F1 advanced rapidly in the 1980s, it became wise to find a car company who wanted to build a motor just for your chassis. Car manufacturers had massive dollars for research and developement, as well as engineers, and facilities. Another advantage of working closely with a "sole-source" engine company was that the chassis and engine could be designed around each other to obtain better center of gravity, aerodynamics, etc.
But now, the automotive companies want to build the chassis as well. BMW Motorsport's Director, Dr Mario Theissen gives his perspecive on why this is happening:
[quote][i][URL=http://bmw-motorsport.com/ms/en/1_news/11_news/meldungen/050622.4ml]Mario Theissen[/URL][/i]
[b]The realignment of our Formula One strategy is based on two insights. Firstly, the influence of the engine on the winning potential of the overall package has diminished; the car, tyres and drivers play a greater role than they used to.
Secondly, from our point of view, an optimal overall package can only be achieved with a fully integrated team and coherent processes throughout.[/b][/quote]
For BMW Motorsport, as BillT mentioned earlier, this is a very good move. Sauber has some of the best facilities in F1, including their [URL=http://www.sauber-petronas.com/en/sauber/windkanal/]new 60% scale wind tunnel[/URL], a [URL=http://www.sauber-petronas.com/en/sauber/albert/]new super computer[/URL], and an experienced, 300 person strong staff who are known for being smart, efficient, and creative. Their primary weakness this season has been money. They had enjoyed a long relationship w/Red Bull as their primary sponser. Previously, they have finished as high as 4th in the World Constructors Championship.
Their key to success will be money... Perhaps BMW may bring a sponsor or two with them from Williams... And Sauber is fairly good at finding sponsors as well. Having BMW as the name of their team will surely be a benefit when courting sponsers. But with easy nicotine dollars being regulated away by F1's venues, finding the dollars is more difficult these days.
I wish BMW success as strong competitors!
| OnTheGas | 06-24-2005 12:07 AM |
BMW.Williams Will Continue
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[QUOTE=AndyRoo]...any ideas who will supply engines to Williams next year?[/QUOTE]I would put money on BMW. In their press conference anouncing the purchase of Sauber, BMW left the door open to talk w/Williams about an engine supply for next year.
Also, Toyota has said that it is too late for Williams to sign up for next season. I don't recall what the story is from Honda...
Also, Mario was asked in the press conference about having a different spec engine for a customer car, vs. the BMW car. He responded that the engine would be the same, because that is the affordable way to manage it... It would be more expensive to have two different spec motors in developement (F1 racing motors are always in development).
He also hinted that they are inclined to run a V10 next season, vs. a V8.
Also, Toyota has said that it is too late for Williams to sign up for next season. I don't recall what the story is from Honda...
Also, Mario was asked in the press conference about having a different spec engine for a customer car, vs. the BMW car. He responded that the engine would be the same, because that is the affordable way to manage it... It would be more expensive to have two different spec motors in developement (F1 racing motors are always in development).
He also hinted that they are inclined to run a V10 next season, vs. a V8.
| OnTheGas | 06-24-2005 12:31 AM |
The Value Of Jacques @ BMW/Sauber
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[QUOTE=bemani]Will they oust JV?[/QUOTE]Probably... According to Jacques, part of the reason that Sauber wanted him is because they had decided to run Michelins, and Jacques has much Michelin experience.
But now Jacques' value at the team does not seem high, in light of his comments that the team does not listen to his feedback. Also, Sauber was very dissappointed that Jacques cost the team 5 points at Monaco by outbraking himself while sending his Sauber team-mate up some escape road.
Jacques will really need to shine to make Sauber/BMW see the advantage of keeping him in one of their seats.
But now Jacques' value at the team does not seem high, in light of his comments that the team does not listen to his feedback. Also, Sauber was very dissappointed that Jacques cost the team 5 points at Monaco by outbraking himself while sending his Sauber team-mate up some escape road.
Jacques will really need to shine to make Sauber/BMW see the advantage of keeping him in one of their seats.
| Wr4wrX | 06-24-2005 01:27 AM |
[QUOTE=OnTheGas]Their key to success will be money... Perhaps BMW may bring a sponsor or two with them from Williams... And Sauber is fairly good at finding sponsors as well. Having BMW as the name of their team will surely be a benefit when courting sponsers. But with easy nicotine dollars being regulated away by F1's venues, finding the dollars is more difficult these days.[/QUOTE]
I think your assessment of Sauber's current budgetary problems as their primary hindrance is spot on. I think BMW will be sitting pretty next season in terms of financial resources. BMW-Williams and Sauber do not have tobacco sponsors, so I don't foresee the tobacco ban affecting them that much. In fact, it might even be a blessing for these two teams (and other teams without tobacco sponsorship) that teams such as West McLaren Mercedes, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, Mild Seven Renault and B.A.R Honda will lose a huge chunk of their funding.
I think your assessment of Sauber's current budgetary problems as their primary hindrance is spot on. I think BMW will be sitting pretty next season in terms of financial resources. BMW-Williams and Sauber do not have tobacco sponsors, so I don't foresee the tobacco ban affecting them that much. In fact, it might even be a blessing for these two teams (and other teams without tobacco sponsorship) that teams such as West McLaren Mercedes, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, Mild Seven Renault and B.A.R Honda will lose a huge chunk of their funding.
| BillT | 06-24-2005 08:57 AM |
I wouldn't count on Ferrari losing a big chunk of their advertising due to the tobacco ban - the rumor has it that Marlboro is considering purchasing the advertising rights for the entire car just so they can paint it red and white.
I really like the BMW-Sauber move. I imagine that they won't have any trouble getting sponsors and Sauber's people and facilities are top notch and just in need of a cash infusion.
I really like the BMW-Sauber move. I imagine that they won't have any trouble getting sponsors and Sauber's people and facilities are top notch and just in need of a cash infusion.
| Fubawu | 06-24-2005 09:40 AM |
I hope they keep JV, it would be nice to see if the excuses are true. Is it the car or him? Now with a big budget behind him, will he be able to regain the form that made him World Champ?
| artkevin | 06-24-2005 10:23 AM |
[QUOTE=Wr4wrX]I think your assessment of Sauber's current budgetary problems as their primary hindrance is spot on. I think BMW will be sitting pretty next season in terms of financial resources. BMW-Williams and Sauber do not have tobacco sponsors, so I don't foresee the tobacco ban affecting them that much. In fact, it might even be a blessing for these two teams (and other teams without tobacco sponsorship) that teams such as West McLaren Mercedes, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, Mild Seven Renault and B.A.R Honda will lose a huge chunk of their funding.[/QUOTE]
I've heard the same thing about an all red Ferrari. Johny Walker liquor is suppoesed to take over for West at Merc by Silverstone. From what I've seen the cars will havea little gold to them now. I still have a problem with this because:
smoking/driving=BAD
drinking/driving=OKAY!
I've heard the same thing about an all red Ferrari. Johny Walker liquor is suppoesed to take over for West at Merc by Silverstone. From what I've seen the cars will havea little gold to them now. I still have a problem with this because:
smoking/driving=BAD
drinking/driving=OKAY!
| BillT | 06-24-2005 10:37 AM |
I think that is pretty funny too with them allowing alcohol advertising and banning tobacco advertising. I'd love to see a car run with the big warning labels they put on cigarette packs in England - 'Smoking Kills You', 'Smoking harms you and others around you', etc...that would be pretty funny.
| Fubawu | 06-24-2005 10:42 AM |
They do that up here in CDN except here they put pics on the package of shriveled
lungs, hearts etc. Its pretty intense!!
John
lungs, hearts etc. Its pretty intense!!
John
| Wr4wrX | 06-24-2005 04:07 PM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]I've heard the same thing about an all red Ferrari. Johny Walker liquor is suppoesed to take over for West at Merc by Silverstone. From what I've seen the cars will havea little gold to them now. I still have a problem with this because:
smoking/driving=BAD
drinking/driving=OKAY![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've also read that Marlboro will try to continue sponsoring Ferrari. I've heard about the Johnny Walker sponsorship deal, but I don't remember if they planned to become as large a sponsor as West.
I agree with you about the smoking/driving = bad and the drinking/driving = okay. Seems pretty silly. But I don't think the FIA is thinking about that link. I believe the reason why tobacco advertising will disappear in F1 is because there is a pan-European ban on tobacco advertising in general which will take effect soon. I don't know if the FIA can technically ban certain types of advertising. In any event, I think it's quite silly that alcohol sponsorship is allowed in F1. I always get a good chuckle when I see the Bud logo on the Williams.
smoking/driving=BAD
drinking/driving=OKAY![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've also read that Marlboro will try to continue sponsoring Ferrari. I've heard about the Johnny Walker sponsorship deal, but I don't remember if they planned to become as large a sponsor as West.
I agree with you about the smoking/driving = bad and the drinking/driving = okay. Seems pretty silly. But I don't think the FIA is thinking about that link. I believe the reason why tobacco advertising will disappear in F1 is because there is a pan-European ban on tobacco advertising in general which will take effect soon. I don't know if the FIA can technically ban certain types of advertising. In any event, I think it's quite silly that alcohol sponsorship is allowed in F1. I always get a good chuckle when I see the Bud logo on the Williams.
| Hawkeye | 06-24-2005 04:26 PM |
[QUOTE=Wr4wrX]Yeah, I've also read that Marlboro will try to continue sponsoring Ferrari. I've heard about the Johnny Walker sponsorship deal, but I don't remember if they planned to become as large a sponsor as West.
I agree with you about the smoking/driving = bad and the drinking/driving = okay. Seems pretty silly. But I don't think the FIA is thinking about that link. I believe the reason why tobacco advertising will disappear in F1 is because there is a pan-European ban on tobacco advertising in general which will take effect soon. I don't know if the FIA can technically ban certain types of advertising. In any event, I think it's quite silly that alcohol sponsorship is allowed in F1. I always get a good chuckle when I see the Bud logo on the Williams.[/QUOTE]
Several years ago The Marlboro teams had to strip the logos off the their cars the night before the Indy 500 because of a change in the advertising laws. I think it was the year Helio won but I am not sure.
I agree with you about the smoking/driving = bad and the drinking/driving = okay. Seems pretty silly. But I don't think the FIA is thinking about that link. I believe the reason why tobacco advertising will disappear in F1 is because there is a pan-European ban on tobacco advertising in general which will take effect soon. I don't know if the FIA can technically ban certain types of advertising. In any event, I think it's quite silly that alcohol sponsorship is allowed in F1. I always get a good chuckle when I see the Bud logo on the Williams.[/QUOTE]
Several years ago The Marlboro teams had to strip the logos off the their cars the night before the Indy 500 because of a change in the advertising laws. I think it was the year Helio won but I am not sure.
| Bottom Feeder | 06-25-2005 11:59 PM |
[QUOTE=OnTheGas]According to Jacques, part of the reason that Sauber wanted him is because they had decided to run Michelins, and Jacques has much Michelin experience.[/QUOTE]What Michelin experience? To my knowledge, BAR was using Bridgestones throughout JV's tenure there, and it was Williams rolling on Goodyears before that.
| OnTheGas | 06-27-2005 11:17 PM |
Signing Jacques For Michelin Experience
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Bottom Feeder - For a team of Sauber's size, to change tire manufacturers is a big change. As you had mentioned, Jacques, (like Sauber), had a bunch of B'Stone experience. Then at the end of last season he tested and raced a top Michelin team's car (Renault) for the last three races (China, Japan, & Brazil).
Afterwards, when Jacques first tested the Sauber, they tested last year's Sauber on Michelins, and Sauber was impressed by how much faster that car was. But when Sauber rolled out this year's chassis, it was not that competitive... It didn't generate enough downforce, and they were not able to tune the chassis to get it to work better the Michelin. Unfortunately, they realized that to fix the chassis would require big bucks.
Now that BMW will be purchasing them, the team is talking very exciteably about how BMW buying them is a wonderful thing, because there will be solid funding for developing the 2006 car, so they can devote existing resources on fixing the 2005 car... They had been close to giving up on the 2005, if they could not find the needed funding. This is the time of year when teams make these decisions... Shall we concentrate on next year, or roll out a couple of improvements to this year's car in the next few weeks, and concentrate on next year's car somtime in August?
Sauber has always felt that they should be kicking Red Bull's butt... Maybe we will see.
Afterwards, when Jacques first tested the Sauber, they tested last year's Sauber on Michelins, and Sauber was impressed by how much faster that car was. But when Sauber rolled out this year's chassis, it was not that competitive... It didn't generate enough downforce, and they were not able to tune the chassis to get it to work better the Michelin. Unfortunately, they realized that to fix the chassis would require big bucks.
Now that BMW will be purchasing them, the team is talking very exciteably about how BMW buying them is a wonderful thing, because there will be solid funding for developing the 2006 car, so they can devote existing resources on fixing the 2005 car... They had been close to giving up on the 2005, if they could not find the needed funding. This is the time of year when teams make these decisions... Shall we concentrate on next year, or roll out a couple of improvements to this year's car in the next few weeks, and concentrate on next year's car somtime in August?
Sauber has always felt that they should be kicking Red Bull's butt... Maybe we will see.
| SolbergWRCfan | 06-29-2005 01:34 AM |
[QUOTE=artkevin]BMW has slowly been getting past up in the hp race by the likes of Ferrari Honda and Toyota, at least from padock rumors. The Walrus thingys were a good idea pioneered by the aero person from Ferrari, a woman, I forget her name but its Italian. She knew what she was doing but got it wrong. I think most of the noise abot the Williams lack of aero preformance has been coming from BMW itself. "We are not winning becuase you can't get the aero right." NO "we are not winning becuase you can't build a engine thats last a GP weekend". And so on. I personally think its not as bad as both of them say about the other but true for sure.
KP[/QUOTE]
Antonia Terzi was her name and I don't believe she necessarily left Ferrari by choice. Besides that, Williams stated that it was not her flawed Walrus tusk design that got her canned but rather her confrontational attitude and inability to work with the other engineers, which I remember someone in Ferrari commenting on when she joined Williams. I also agree with Kevin that BMW have been passed in the HP wars and that their power is less driveable than other units. Both Juan and Ralf described it as very peaky last year when it was clear they would no longer be with Williams. It will be very interesting to see how they do with Sauber next year, but I will be rooting them on vehemently along with Williams and Toyota as those are my favorite companies in F1. I just really hope Williams doesn't get the shaft as far as engines go because I have always loved the team itself.
Jon
KP[/QUOTE]
Antonia Terzi was her name and I don't believe she necessarily left Ferrari by choice. Besides that, Williams stated that it was not her flawed Walrus tusk design that got her canned but rather her confrontational attitude and inability to work with the other engineers, which I remember someone in Ferrari commenting on when she joined Williams. I also agree with Kevin that BMW have been passed in the HP wars and that their power is less driveable than other units. Both Juan and Ralf described it as very peaky last year when it was clear they would no longer be with Williams. It will be very interesting to see how they do with Sauber next year, but I will be rooting them on vehemently along with Williams and Toyota as those are my favorite companies in F1. I just really hope Williams doesn't get the shaft as far as engines go because I have always loved the team itself.
Jon
| artkevin | 06-29-2005 09:31 AM |
I think she got it wrong with the amount of flex that the wing had under load. You could see it on the onboard shots from Monaco. The middle of the wing would dip as they went faster and I am sure that screwed up the air flow for the rest of the car.
I have heard that Williams might go with Cosworth with Red Bull going to Ferrari horse power. Strange days ahead.
KP
I have heard that Williams might go with Cosworth with Red Bull going to Ferrari horse power. Strange days ahead.
KP
| SolbergWRCfan | 06-29-2005 11:29 AM |
I read that the Williams was too sensitive to cross winds but who knows (we probably frequent the same sites), this is all going to be odd.
Jon
Jon
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