| soso3 | 05-21-2003 10:26 AM |
Cheap Rallly-Beater
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My friend and I are looking to get into rallycross and are looking for something cheap (>$1000) to get started....
What's your opinion about:
-Car Make/Model
-Best potiential
-FWD vs AWD vs RWD
-small engine vs large engine
-weight considerations (for the car )
-anything else??
Thanks for the help!!
What's your opinion about:
-Car Make/Model
-Best potiential
-FWD vs AWD vs RWD
-small engine vs large engine
-weight considerations (for the car )
-anything else??
Thanks for the help!!
| Stanley | 05-21-2003 11:39 AM |
$1,000 is not a lot of money...
I have a friend who owns 2 Audi 4000cs Quattros. He picked the black one (an '85) for $1200 and the silver one (an '86) for $2300. Both these cars are very high mileage and have lots of, um, character.:lol: But they run amazingly well for their age and mileage.
I have a friend who owns 2 Audi 4000cs Quattros. He picked the black one (an '85) for $1200 and the silver one (an '86) for $2300. Both these cars are very high mileage and have lots of, um, character.:lol: But they run amazingly well for their age and mileage.
| 10th Warrior | 05-21-2003 01:01 PM |
old RX-7s and Golfs are good. your financial limits are going to dictate what you get though! not alot available for <$1k. certainly not in good running order. old civic maybe.
| Eric SS | 05-21-2003 01:01 PM |
Omni GLH or old Maverick
| rob | 05-21-2003 01:16 PM |
mk1 MR2. rally-x one weekend, auto-x the next. you can find them around $1000.
| soso3 | 05-21-2003 01:51 PM |
Thanks for the suggestions!!!
I actually have found a lot under $1,000 that look promising like:
-1990 Audi 200
-a couple celicas and corollas
-1 GTI
As long as it runs :rolleyes: the body doesn't matter....
I actually have found a lot under $1,000 that look promising like:
-1990 Audi 200
-a couple celicas and corollas
-1 GTI
As long as it runs :rolleyes: the body doesn't matter....
| Kitsune | 05-21-2003 03:27 PM |
A 1989 VW Jetta GL for $300. You buy now!
Seriously though, anything that you can insure for cheap. Because if you break it at a race the insurance company is not going to be very forth coming about paying out. Also, consider if you'd want to bother fixing it or not if something critical breaks. It might be cheaper just to buy another car; if you'd rather fix what you got the availability of parts should be considered to. Finding parts for a Pug would be pretty damn hard compared to an Audi.(Since VW and Audi are the same company and all)
Seriously though, anything that you can insure for cheap. Because if you break it at a race the insurance company is not going to be very forth coming about paying out. Also, consider if you'd want to bother fixing it or not if something critical breaks. It might be cheaper just to buy another car; if you'd rather fix what you got the availability of parts should be considered to. Finding parts for a Pug would be pretty damn hard compared to an Audi.(Since VW and Audi are the same company and all)
| Lil' Ike | 05-21-2003 06:43 PM |
Here would be my choice! :lol:
[url]http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=XT&start_year=1983&end_year=2004&min_price=&max_price=&distance=any&certified=n&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=SUB&address=53202&search_type=used&x=15&y=12[/url]
[url]http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=XT&start_year=1983&end_year=2004&min_price=&max_price=&distance=any&certified=n&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=SUB&address=53202&search_type=used&x=15&y=12[/url]
| Coati | 05-21-2003 08:01 PM |
For rallycrossing
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$1,000 goes far at Avis.:devil:
It should get you both through at least one full season, even paying for the beefy maximum walk-away insurance policy.;)
It should get you both through at least one full season, even paying for the beefy maximum walk-away insurance policy.;)
| WagonMonster | 05-21-2003 08:04 PM |
I still miss my $500 Rally Beater, I should have never sold that car :(
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/subaru/images/index/beater.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/subaru/images/index/beater.jpg[/IMG]
| soso3 | 05-21-2003 08:56 PM |
Telex: Is that an old Subie???:cool:
That's what I'm lookin for!!
;)
Kitsun: What would be hard to find parts for? (compared to Audi/VW)??
That's what I'm lookin for!!
;)
Kitsun: What would be hard to find parts for? (compared to Audi/VW)??
| Bort | 05-21-2003 10:15 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Planet Telex [/i]
[B]I still miss my $500 Rally Beater, I should have never sold that car :(
[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh man, nice car. I had an '89 GL coupe that I loved. Dual range 5spd, great ground clearance, etc.
I miss her sooooo much!
[B]I still miss my $500 Rally Beater, I should have never sold that car :(
[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh man, nice car. I had an '89 GL coupe that I loved. Dual range 5spd, great ground clearance, etc.
I miss her sooooo much!
| jprowland | 05-21-2003 11:18 PM |
Why a beater?
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland/forums/gunstock02-wrx01.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland/forums/gunstock02-wrx01.jpg[/IMG]
| krzyray | 05-22-2003 01:24 AM |
Funny... I was going to post the exact same question right before I saw your post! lol :)
Good suggestions so far, keep 'em coming.
Does anybody install a roll bar/cage in their rally beater?
Also, do you guys drive your rally beater to the race or do you take it in a trailer?
Good suggestions so far, keep 'em coming.
Does anybody install a roll bar/cage in their rally beater?
Also, do you guys drive your rally beater to the race or do you take it in a trailer?
| Porsche914boxer4 | 05-22-2003 01:44 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Planet Telex [/i]
[B]I still miss my $500 Rally Beater, I should have never sold that car :(
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/subaru/images/index/beater.jpg[/IMG] [/B][/QUOTE]
God, you look goofier and goofier in every picture!
haha
[B]I still miss my $500 Rally Beater, I should have never sold that car :(
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/subaru/images/index/beater.jpg[/IMG] [/B][/QUOTE]
God, you look goofier and goofier in every picture!
haha
| Lil' Ike | 05-22-2003 02:51 AM |
I still think one of those old XTs with the 6 Cylinder is the answer! :P
| jprowland | 05-22-2003 07:44 AM |
My thoughts:
Other than possible paint chips from flying pebbles, using your street car is harmless.
More power is always better. Torque (non-turbo) is easier than HP (turbo) for many people in a rally-x, meaning a 2.5 RS is excellent, but a WRX will be faster in competent hands. AWD is, in the hands of the same driver, always faster. But none of that stopped Ted Mendham from taking his wife's stock Civic DX to the championship win in New England last year (now he's in a Eclipse GSX -- yeesh, there's no stopping him). Matt Kennedy usually mops up the 4WD stock class here, in his early 90's Legacy.
Roll cages are nice but not necessary. Skid plates on the bottom are recommended, but you won't need anything very severe (3/16" aluminum is plenty for rally-x). Most people don't have either. Maybe 20% of NER rally-x entries are in rally cars. They often trailer their cars, but most people drive to the event. Chance of damage is minimal, but obviously increases with older cars.
Tires are everything. Get the best tires your class will allow. For NER, snow tires are legal for stock class and good for 3-6 seconds faster than all-seasons. Rally tires will put you in modified class here. Different regions have different rules.
In general, run what you brung, and have fun. You will probably get your butt stomped by people with more experience for a couple years, so don't get too frustrated!
And yes, we've had our share of rental Cavaliers and Saturns here :)
Other than possible paint chips from flying pebbles, using your street car is harmless.
More power is always better. Torque (non-turbo) is easier than HP (turbo) for many people in a rally-x, meaning a 2.5 RS is excellent, but a WRX will be faster in competent hands. AWD is, in the hands of the same driver, always faster. But none of that stopped Ted Mendham from taking his wife's stock Civic DX to the championship win in New England last year (now he's in a Eclipse GSX -- yeesh, there's no stopping him). Matt Kennedy usually mops up the 4WD stock class here, in his early 90's Legacy.
Roll cages are nice but not necessary. Skid plates on the bottom are recommended, but you won't need anything very severe (3/16" aluminum is plenty for rally-x). Most people don't have either. Maybe 20% of NER rally-x entries are in rally cars. They often trailer their cars, but most people drive to the event. Chance of damage is minimal, but obviously increases with older cars.
Tires are everything. Get the best tires your class will allow. For NER, snow tires are legal for stock class and good for 3-6 seconds faster than all-seasons. Rally tires will put you in modified class here. Different regions have different rules.
In general, run what you brung, and have fun. You will probably get your butt stomped by people with more experience for a couple years, so don't get too frustrated!
And yes, we've had our share of rental Cavaliers and Saturns here :)
| ShockWave | 05-22-2003 09:43 AM |
Think about parts
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I would recommend you think about the cost and availability of parts when making your decision. The Audi sounds great but anything German will be more expensive to repair. I can tell you from experience that a race car isn't much fun when it's broke and taking up space!
| subarurabbit | 05-22-2003 10:42 AM |
How's that snow bank doing Jeremy? ;)
[IMG]http://www.ner.org/Rally/Jeremy_Rowland_x40.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.ner.org/Rally/Jeremy_Rowland_x40.JPG[/IMG]
| subarurabbit | 05-22-2003 10:44 AM |
Yeah, an XT or turbo RX would be great...
Legacy Turbo is not too bad. Low end torque up the wazoo :devil:
Legacy Turbo is not too bad. Low end torque up the wazoo :devil:
| jprowland | 05-22-2003 11:11 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by subarurabbit [/i]
[B]How's that snow bank doing Jeremy? ;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey I'm proud of that picture, it made Pit Talk (NER region magazine.) That was the 3rd run of the day overall, and I was the first not to spin there...But I've had it with ice rallycrosses, I just can't drive on ice. But I'll be at Team O'Neil on June 14, see you then...
[B]How's that snow bank doing Jeremy? ;)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hey I'm proud of that picture, it made Pit Talk (NER region magazine.) That was the 3rd run of the day overall, and I was the first not to spin there...But I've had it with ice rallycrosses, I just can't drive on ice. But I'll be at Team O'Neil on June 14, see you then...
| jprowland | 05-22-2003 11:15 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jprowland [/i]
[B]Matt Kennedy usually mops up the 4WD stock class here, in his early 90's Legacy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, I just remembered, Matt just bought a turbo RX. Still stock...he keeps beating us in older and older Subarus!
[B]Matt Kennedy usually mops up the 4WD stock class here, in his early 90's Legacy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, I just remembered, Matt just bought a turbo RX. Still stock...he keeps beating us in older and older Subarus!
| XT6Wagon | 05-22-2003 11:51 AM |
Parts as in repair parts are avalible and usualy dirt cheap for the old cars.
Upgrades?? Well there you had better learn your subaru's and learn to fabricate. Because for almost anything you want to do, you either have to grab the parts off of a different subaru, or make it yourself.
Upgrades?? Well there you had better learn your subaru's and learn to fabricate. Because for almost anything you want to do, you either have to grab the parts off of a different subaru, or make it yourself.
| subarurabbit | 05-22-2003 01:43 PM |
well, I'm 4th in prod 4wd w/ missing 1 event, so I'm feeling good about this year overall.
see you there !
see you there !
| WagonMonster | 05-22-2003 02:38 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Porsche914boxer4 [/i]
[B]
God, you look goofier and goofier in every picture!
haha [/B][/QUOTE]
WhatevAr!
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/images/misc/eli_superman.jpg[/IMG]
[B]
God, you look goofier and goofier in every picture!
haha [/B][/QUOTE]
WhatevAr!
[IMG]http://www.williwood.com/images/misc/eli_superman.jpg[/IMG]
| soso3 | 05-22-2003 02:41 PM |
JPROLAND: Why a beater?? Because my wife is gonna kill me if I rallycross the new Subie and break something (even though I know that's not very likely to happen)....since it's the daily driver.
I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil:
I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil:
| SMiLEY | 05-23-2003 10:12 AM |
Yeah, I promised the wife I wouldn't rally the new Subaru until it gets paid off, which is a few years from now.
I've been rallycrossing my Neon, but I'm really itching to get into ClubRally now, so I'm thinking a good beater rally car would be a good thing.
I've been rallycrossing my Neon, but I'm really itching to get into ClubRally now, so I'm thinking a good beater rally car would be a good thing.
| jprowland | 05-23-2003 11:14 AM |
Rally car classifieds:
[url]http://www.bensrallypage.com/#classifieds[/url]
[url]http://www.rallyclassified.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID14&conf=DCConfID5[/url]
[url]http://www.bensrallypage.com/#classifieds[/url]
[url]http://www.rallyclassified.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID14&conf=DCConfID5[/url]
| jprowland | 05-23-2003 11:35 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by soso3 [/i]
[B]I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
If you want to be "competitive" AND have fun in the dirt AND have a cheap car, buy an old RX-7 or BMW. Often RWD cars get their own class with only a couple entries. And nothing beats RWD for oversteer-on-demand!
[B]I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
If you want to be "competitive" AND have fun in the dirt AND have a cheap car, buy an old RX-7 or BMW. Often RWD cars get their own class with only a couple entries. And nothing beats RWD for oversteer-on-demand!
| cowapult | 05-23-2003 09:49 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by soso3 [/i]
[B]JPROLAND: Why a beater?? Because my wife is gonna kill me if I rallycross the new Subie and break something (even though I know that's not very likely to happen)....since it's the daily driver.
I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly! Scratches are the least of your worries. I see people screw up their cars all the time and have to do major repairs. It GREATLY depends on the venue you go to and how crazy you are, but even at the tamest of the 3 venues I've been to, somebody DNF's at every rallyX event.
Plus, having a WRX with twice the HP and twice the drive wheels won't even help a newbie at all. A lot of old veterens go out in old, crappy slow FWD cars and embarrass WRX's at every event.
Just think, beaters are inherently faster because you can drive 'em like their stolen.
-Sam
scoring his "heresy" points for the day
[B]JPROLAND: Why a beater?? Because my wife is gonna kill me if I rallycross the new Subie and break something (even though I know that's not very likely to happen)....since it's the daily driver.
I think I would just have more fun in something I'm not worried about breaking...I don't really care about being competitive any time soon. I just like the dirt.:D :D :devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly! Scratches are the least of your worries. I see people screw up their cars all the time and have to do major repairs. It GREATLY depends on the venue you go to and how crazy you are, but even at the tamest of the 3 venues I've been to, somebody DNF's at every rallyX event.
Plus, having a WRX with twice the HP and twice the drive wheels won't even help a newbie at all. A lot of old veterens go out in old, crappy slow FWD cars and embarrass WRX's at every event.
Just think, beaters are inherently faster because you can drive 'em like their stolen.
-Sam
scoring his "heresy" points for the day
| krzyray | 05-27-2003 02:02 AM |
If you had a choice between a 1984 Audi 4000S Quattro and a 1988 Subaru RX, what would be a better choice if both were the same price and in the same condition?
thanx
thanx
| jprowland | 05-27-2003 07:20 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by krzyray [/i]
[B]If you had a choice between a 1984 Audi 4000S Quattro and a 1988 Subaru RX, what would be a better choice if both were the same price and in the same condition?[/B][/QUOTE]
Hmm, I say it's a toss-up. Audis are known for being a little heavy, but in that era probably had a better suspension and drivetrain. The Audi is older, but they're also known for being more rust-resistant (galvanized body and all that). Audis are more plentiful, so it's going to be easier to find parts to keep it running, but both have avid fan-bases to help you out (NASIOC for Subarus, Audi World for Audis [url]http://www.audiworld.com/[/url])
So, your call, the differences probably equal out on the rally-x field. Keep in mind that the RX will be considered "cooler" by most of the other drivers, since it's a turbo (but the turbo is going to need to be rebuilt soon if not immediately!)
[B]If you had a choice between a 1984 Audi 4000S Quattro and a 1988 Subaru RX, what would be a better choice if both were the same price and in the same condition?[/B][/QUOTE]
Hmm, I say it's a toss-up. Audis are known for being a little heavy, but in that era probably had a better suspension and drivetrain. The Audi is older, but they're also known for being more rust-resistant (galvanized body and all that). Audis are more plentiful, so it's going to be easier to find parts to keep it running, but both have avid fan-bases to help you out (NASIOC for Subarus, Audi World for Audis [url]http://www.audiworld.com/[/url])
So, your call, the differences probably equal out on the rally-x field. Keep in mind that the RX will be considered "cooler" by most of the other drivers, since it's a turbo (but the turbo is going to need to be rebuilt soon if not immediately!)
| Matt | 05-27-2003 12:00 PM |
I vote the RX.
I've built up one of two with a friend up in NC. We bought two AWD turbo RXes for $400. One is on the road and running great, the other one is stripped down to the shell awaiting further instructions. :) Parts are easy to find and may items we needed were in stock at our local dealers, Mastro Subaru in Tampa, Folger Subaru in Charlotte, and John Cook Subaru in Boone, NC. Most basic parts are also shared with the Loyale, built from 1985 until 1994. Loyale turbos with shift on the fly 4WD were available in 1985 until about 1990 so parts/motors/gearboxes are plentiful. You may have to do a little searching for specific items, but it was a fairly cost effective and reasonable project. I'll post some pics if I can find them. :)
Its pretty bombproof and almost as quick as my RS and his Legacy GT. We took it to the Sandhills Sandblast rally in SC to play on some of the stages after dark and while marshalling during the day. Great car and a real head turner. Lots of people were interested in buying it on the spot!
I've built up one of two with a friend up in NC. We bought two AWD turbo RXes for $400. One is on the road and running great, the other one is stripped down to the shell awaiting further instructions. :) Parts are easy to find and may items we needed were in stock at our local dealers, Mastro Subaru in Tampa, Folger Subaru in Charlotte, and John Cook Subaru in Boone, NC. Most basic parts are also shared with the Loyale, built from 1985 until 1994. Loyale turbos with shift on the fly 4WD were available in 1985 until about 1990 so parts/motors/gearboxes are plentiful. You may have to do a little searching for specific items, but it was a fairly cost effective and reasonable project. I'll post some pics if I can find them. :)
Its pretty bombproof and almost as quick as my RS and his Legacy GT. We took it to the Sandhills Sandblast rally in SC to play on some of the stages after dark and while marshalling during the day. Great car and a real head turner. Lots of people were interested in buying it on the spot!
| jprowland | 05-27-2003 12:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by matt in fl [/i]
[B]Great car and a real head turner. Lots of people were interested in buying it on the spot! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'd have put in my offer if I saw it!
But, if I had one it still wouldn't stop me from running my WRX in rallycrosses... :)
[B]Great car and a real head turner. Lots of people were interested in buying it on the spot! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'd have put in my offer if I saw it!
But, if I had one it still wouldn't stop me from running my WRX in rallycrosses... :)
| Mike Anson | 05-27-2003 01:07 PM |
I'd vote for the 4000. Mainly because I have one (and it's for sale).
The I-5's in 4k's are very reliable and so are the tranny's. You could put in a 10valve turbo motor (bolt's right up), and not have to change the transmission. They are much tougher than the subaru. Also, the 4kq's come with center and rear locking diffs which is great fun in the dirt. Not sure if that's available in the RX.
If you wanted to progress beyond rallycross, you'd have an easier time finding rally bits for the 4kq, and you'd have a pretty easy upgrade path, from PGT to Open. Just plop in a turbo motor. Or you could put Ken Hawley's 20valve N/A motor in good for at least 160hp in a 2800 lb car. (Ken crunched his 4kq at LSPR and was selling off bits - he's in MI)
Like I said, my 4kq is for sale. It was my rallyx beater and it's got a nice skidplate and it comes with rally tires along with a bunch of other stuff. Let me know if you're interested. I'll make you a good deal.
The I-5's in 4k's are very reliable and so are the tranny's. You could put in a 10valve turbo motor (bolt's right up), and not have to change the transmission. They are much tougher than the subaru. Also, the 4kq's come with center and rear locking diffs which is great fun in the dirt. Not sure if that's available in the RX.
If you wanted to progress beyond rallycross, you'd have an easier time finding rally bits for the 4kq, and you'd have a pretty easy upgrade path, from PGT to Open. Just plop in a turbo motor. Or you could put Ken Hawley's 20valve N/A motor in good for at least 160hp in a 2800 lb car. (Ken crunched his 4kq at LSPR and was selling off bits - he's in MI)
Like I said, my 4kq is for sale. It was my rallyx beater and it's got a nice skidplate and it comes with rally tires along with a bunch of other stuff. Let me know if you're interested. I'll make you a good deal.
| jprowland | 05-27-2003 03:27 PM |
Any RX owner(s) will probably set the record straight, but I think that era of Subaru had a true 4WD transfer case as opposed to full-time viscous AWD. So the diffs can probably be locked...
I co-drive for rallies in a 4000 turbo in Open class. It won't win (not when you're running against Evos and STi RAs), but you won't be last, either. You could win a rally-cross with it, if you were a good driver. The locking diffs are definately a plus in the dirt.
I co-drive for rallies in a 4000 turbo in Open class. It won't win (not when you're running against Evos and STi RAs), but you won't be last, either. You could win a rally-cross with it, if you were a good driver. The locking diffs are definately a plus in the dirt.
| XT6Wagon | 05-27-2003 04:27 PM |
The 85/86 had only a part time system, which is fine for a rallyX only car as it locks the front and rear together solid.
The 87+ RX, and GL-10 turbo have a FT-4wd setup that uses a open center diff. The rear diff might be an LSD on the GL-10's as it was an option, and my 88 wagon had it. The center diff lock is a bit weak, with mine finaly puking after some hard offroad. However it seems to have puked so that there was alot of drag if there was a speed differential. AKA LSD......
The 87+ RX, and GL-10 turbo have a FT-4wd setup that uses a open center diff. The rear diff might be an LSD on the GL-10's as it was an option, and my 88 wagon had it. The center diff lock is a bit weak, with mine finaly puking after some hard offroad. However it seems to have puked so that there was alot of drag if there was a speed differential. AKA LSD......
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