| artkevin | 01-10-2005 10:32 AM |
Can someone please explain heel/toeing to me?
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I keep trying it in my WRX and I have a hell of a time modulating the gas. I try to just blip it but I end up either flooring it or missing it all together. Any hints out there?
Kevin
Kevin
| KC | 01-10-2005 11:14 AM |
Start here. Once you read this, then come and ask more questions. ;)
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1004867[/url]
[url]http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1004867[/url]
| Calamity Jesus | 01-10-2005 11:14 AM |
Practice, Practice, Practice.
Use thin soled shoes so you can feel the pedal better.
Use thin soled shoes so you can feel the pedal better.
| Zoinks | 01-10-2005 11:18 AM |
You sound like you're already familiar with the basic procedure, right? One thing may be how you're positioning your foot. Some people keep their foot straight, and sort of use the right edge to blip the throttle. I can't do that accurately at all. I have to do the full motion with the toe of my foot on the brakes and swinging my heel around onto the gas, so my foot is diagonal like this: "\". Using that method, I can usually get the RPMs where I want them if I'm paying attention.
I assume practice makes perfect. I learned heel/toe at the same time I learned to drive a manual transmission, so everything was a mess for a while that came together over time. It's probably even harder when you're interrupting the normal shifting patterns you've already developed. I actually don't really know how to downshift normally w/o rev matching.
Maybe you should try with the car stopped, in neutral with the parking brake up. Just try to have your foot on the brake and practice blipping the throttle while maintaining a certain brake pressure.
I assume practice makes perfect. I learned heel/toe at the same time I learned to drive a manual transmission, so everything was a mess for a while that came together over time. It's probably even harder when you're interrupting the normal shifting patterns you've already developed. I actually don't really know how to downshift normally w/o rev matching.
Maybe you should try with the car stopped, in neutral with the parking brake up. Just try to have your foot on the brake and practice blipping the throttle while maintaining a certain brake pressure.
| M | 01-10-2005 11:30 AM |
a lot of racecar drivers blip the throttle with their toes, and brake with the heel. very difficult in my opinion.
| fastwrx | 01-10-2005 11:32 AM |
Ditto to the above. It takes a lot of practice. I am able to use the right edge of my foot effectively. Some prefer to swing out their heel. It's whatever works.
My first experience doing it was with Skip Barber's 3-day racing school. The cars had to be double-clutched and heal/toed for downshifts. It was pretty comical that first day... lots of grinding noises on the track! I've been heal-toeing ever since in my street cars... for 3 years now.
Keep on practicing... and try different shoes, maybe.
Mike
My first experience doing it was with Skip Barber's 3-day racing school. The cars had to be double-clutched and heal/toed for downshifts. It was pretty comical that first day... lots of grinding noises on the track! I've been heal-toeing ever since in my street cars... for 3 years now.
Keep on practicing... and try different shoes, maybe.
Mike
| ITWRX4ME | 01-10-2005 12:33 PM |
[QUOTE=Zoinks]You sound like you're already familiar with the basic procedure, right? [/QUOTE]
Awfully big assumption given... ;)
[QUOTE=artkevin]I keep trying it in my WRX and I have a hell of a time modulating the gas. I try to just blip it but I end up either flooring it or missing it all together. Any hints out there?
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Try breaking the procedure up into smaller parts.
Because heel and toe downshifting combines braking and rev-matched downshifting, you can practice by eliminating the braking portion of the equation by just rev-matching downshifts.
Say your cruising in 4th gear at 2500 rpm and you want to pass a slower car. Instead of just shifting into 3rd and taking off, do the following:
Clutch in
Shift to neutral
Clutch out
Blip the throttle (rpms should increase to about 3500).
Clutch in while pressing the shifter gently against the 3rd gear shift gate (shifter should literally flop into 3rd)
Clutch out, gas in
I know, the purpose of the above is to accelerate and you want to use it during braking. But the principle is the same so once you can do this consistently and smoothly, you can move on to trying it while braking. It's about making sure you blip the throttle enough to match the gear revolutions in the input and output shafts of the transmission. You'll know it when it's right because the shifter will go into the lower gear with almost no resistance.
Another thing you can do is to just practice blipping the throttle while braking, without downshifting. With the clutch in (coasting), brake with the left edge of your foot and see if you can just blip the throttle a few times with the right edge of your foot. The key is to do it without affecting how much you're pressing the brake.
Hope that helps.
Awfully big assumption given... ;)
[QUOTE=artkevin]I keep trying it in my WRX and I have a hell of a time modulating the gas. I try to just blip it but I end up either flooring it or missing it all together. Any hints out there?
Kevin[/QUOTE]
Try breaking the procedure up into smaller parts.
Because heel and toe downshifting combines braking and rev-matched downshifting, you can practice by eliminating the braking portion of the equation by just rev-matching downshifts.
Say your cruising in 4th gear at 2500 rpm and you want to pass a slower car. Instead of just shifting into 3rd and taking off, do the following:
Clutch in
Shift to neutral
Clutch out
Blip the throttle (rpms should increase to about 3500).
Clutch in while pressing the shifter gently against the 3rd gear shift gate (shifter should literally flop into 3rd)
Clutch out, gas in
I know, the purpose of the above is to accelerate and you want to use it during braking. But the principle is the same so once you can do this consistently and smoothly, you can move on to trying it while braking. It's about making sure you blip the throttle enough to match the gear revolutions in the input and output shafts of the transmission. You'll know it when it's right because the shifter will go into the lower gear with almost no resistance.
Another thing you can do is to just practice blipping the throttle while braking, without downshifting. With the clutch in (coasting), brake with the left edge of your foot and see if you can just blip the throttle a few times with the right edge of your foot. The key is to do it without affecting how much you're pressing the brake.
Hope that helps.
| fastwrx | 01-10-2005 01:02 PM |
Good suggestion by itwrx4me. (practicing without the braking component) The only thing I'd throw in is the option of single-clutching instead of double clutching. Any reason to double-clutch? (given it's not a racing dog-box tranny?)
Mike
Mike
| ITWRX4ME | 01-10-2005 01:16 PM |
[QUOTE=fastwrx]Good suggestion by itwrx4me. (practicing without the braking component) The only thing I'd throw in is the option of single-clutching instead of double clutching. Any reason to double-clutch? (given it's not a racing dog-box tranny?)
Mike[/QUOTE]
The true purpose of rev-matching is to match the speed of the input and output shafts of the tranny. The tranny has to be in neutral to do that.
Look at it purely from what's happening at the end of the braking zone. You need to transition from braking to cornering/acceleration. With single-clutching, at the transition point you're clutching, shifting and transitioning from braking to throttle while steering into the turn.
With double clutching, you've finished your shifting before you get to the transition point. Your foot is off the clutch and your in the right gear already. All that remains is to roll off the brake and onto the throttle as you steer into the turn.
Mike[/QUOTE]
The true purpose of rev-matching is to match the speed of the input and output shafts of the tranny. The tranny has to be in neutral to do that.
Look at it purely from what's happening at the end of the braking zone. You need to transition from braking to cornering/acceleration. With single-clutching, at the transition point you're clutching, shifting and transitioning from braking to throttle while steering into the turn.
With double clutching, you've finished your shifting before you get to the transition point. Your foot is off the clutch and your in the right gear already. All that remains is to roll off the brake and onto the throttle as you steer into the turn.
| fastwrx | 01-10-2005 01:23 PM |
Never thought of it that way, itwrx4me. I'll have to try double-clutching again! :)
Mike
Mike
| Leadfoot77 | 01-10-2005 01:31 PM |
subscribing! good posts itwrx4me
| artkevin | 01-10-2005 01:47 PM |
Thanks guys. All very good suggestions. I have been using flat, hard soled shoes to try to maximise the feel but I will try to remove the braking part of it next.
| ITWRX4ME | 01-10-2005 01:57 PM |
Some other points about positioning your foot (this is what works for me):
You want the portion of the ball of your right foot, just behind your big toe, on the brake. The top of the brake pedal should be just about where your big toe joins your foot. The right edge of the pedal should be between the bones of the big toe and the second toe (metatarsals??).
This should position your foot so that the far right edge can reach the throttle. If not, you may have to alter the pedals to get the spacing right.
When you begin your braking, your foot should be canted such that the outside of the foot is up so that it doesn't hit the throttle. You can practice this while sitting idle with the car running. Don't bother with the car off because the brake pedal won't go down as far.
Find a good foot position that allows you to press the brake while still allowing you to rock your foot over to press the throttle. Practice moving your foot from the throttle to the brake until you can get your foot in the right place every time automatically. Make sure that your foot has enough contact with the brake pedal that there isn't a risk it could slip off during hard braking.
Practice pressing really hard on the brake without touching the throttle. This is critical because your minimizing the amount of your foot on the pedal so the risk of it slipping off is increased.
Normal, everyday shoes will make the reach easier but will dampen the feel. Racing shoes increase the feel but make the reach more difficult. I usually drive around my racing shoes for a couple of days before a track day to adjust to the feel and reach.
[b]You should make sure your shoes and pedals are dry before trying all this on the streets. Again, the risk of your foot slipping off the edge of the pedal increases.[/b]
You want the portion of the ball of your right foot, just behind your big toe, on the brake. The top of the brake pedal should be just about where your big toe joins your foot. The right edge of the pedal should be between the bones of the big toe and the second toe (metatarsals??).
This should position your foot so that the far right edge can reach the throttle. If not, you may have to alter the pedals to get the spacing right.
When you begin your braking, your foot should be canted such that the outside of the foot is up so that it doesn't hit the throttle. You can practice this while sitting idle with the car running. Don't bother with the car off because the brake pedal won't go down as far.
Find a good foot position that allows you to press the brake while still allowing you to rock your foot over to press the throttle. Practice moving your foot from the throttle to the brake until you can get your foot in the right place every time automatically. Make sure that your foot has enough contact with the brake pedal that there isn't a risk it could slip off during hard braking.
Practice pressing really hard on the brake without touching the throttle. This is critical because your minimizing the amount of your foot on the pedal so the risk of it slipping off is increased.
Normal, everyday shoes will make the reach easier but will dampen the feel. Racing shoes increase the feel but make the reach more difficult. I usually drive around my racing shoes for a couple of days before a track day to adjust to the feel and reach.
[b]You should make sure your shoes and pedals are dry before trying all this on the streets. Again, the risk of your foot slipping off the edge of the pedal increases.[/b]
| artkevin | 01-10-2005 02:04 PM |
ITWRX4ME, do you leave your heel on the floorboard or do you have your entire foot off the ground?
| ITWRX4ME | 01-10-2005 02:18 PM |
My heel is off the floor board slightly. This leaves me the option, if needed, to swing my heel over to hit the throttle. I've had a couple of times when I didn't get all of the air out of the brake lines and the pedal would suddenly go to the floor. This was past the point where it was feasible to use the side of my foot so I used the heel.
| ITWRX4ME | 01-10-2005 02:23 PM |
I just remembered this video:
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox Small.wmv[/url]
This is Gary Sheehan working the pedals and it's a great example. He uses double-clutching. He also uses his heel to blip the throttle. He has small feet so the side step thing may be an option.
[url]http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox Small.wmv[/url]
This is Gary Sheehan working the pedals and it's a great example. He uses double-clutching. He also uses his heel to blip the throttle. He has small feet so the side step thing may be an option.
| artkevin | 01-10-2005 02:31 PM |
Great clip, that really does explain a lot. He is very smooth and direct in all of his inputs. I don't think I understand the purpose of double clutching. I guess its becuase most the racing I watch is either clutch-less (F1, hand operated clutch) or they rev-match so they don't use the clutch at all (Trans-am).
| 8Complex | 01-10-2005 02:55 PM |
I've got wide feet and actually use the left side of the ball of my foot for the brake, and blip the throttle with the side/lower of the right side of my foot. It's extrememly easy in an Impreza... forget about ever trying it in a Honda, though, I've never driven one with the gas pedal within reach, even during full braking.
| skuttledude | 01-10-2005 03:15 PM |
[QUOTE=8Complex]I've got wide feet and actually use the left side of the ball of my foot for the brake, and blip the throttle with the side/lower of the right side of my foot. It's extrememly easy in an Impreza... forget about ever trying it in a Honda, though, I've never driven one with the gas pedal within reach, even during full braking.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for giving the big foot info. I'm a size 11 or so (maybe thats avg...i dunno) and have never found a good way of doing this. I'll practice some now that we got some good hints and stuff.
Thanks!
Thanks for giving the big foot info. I'm a size 11 or so (maybe thats avg...i dunno) and have never found a good way of doing this. I'll practice some now that we got some good hints and stuff.
Thanks!
| ChrisDP | 01-10-2005 03:51 PM |
Grab gas pedal and bend it with your hands... if you're not burly, use channellocks. Voila, easier h/t throttle blips.
I didn't have a problem double-clutching in the Barber cars, but I single-clutch in cars with synchros since it's less footwork, less room for error and my revs are matched enough anyways to slot the gear in without being disruptive. Double-clutching provides more rope to hang yourself with, something I certainly don't need when I have synchros that work :)
I didn't have a problem double-clutching in the Barber cars, but I single-clutch in cars with synchros since it's less footwork, less room for error and my revs are matched enough anyways to slot the gear in without being disruptive. Double-clutching provides more rope to hang yourself with, something I certainly don't need when I have synchros that work :)
| BriDrive | 01-10-2005 04:40 PM |
Frankly, also, its actually harder in a stock WRX than a proper race car because of the relative lack of responsiveness from the flywheel and multi-cat restricted long slow travel gas pedal... :lol:
I have found that a modified "foot roll" works best for me. The pedals could stand to be a little closer together however. Other advice, do it slow and deliberate at first. I think once one learns to time the gas blip properly it's much easier. Without modifications to the car, you won't get a "blip" so much as time delayed rev up.
I actually taught myself the fundamentals on my old CBR 600 f2 I once planned to road race.
BriDrive
I have found that a modified "foot roll" works best for me. The pedals could stand to be a little closer together however. Other advice, do it slow and deliberate at first. I think once one learns to time the gas blip properly it's much easier. Without modifications to the car, you won't get a "blip" so much as time delayed rev up.
I actually taught myself the fundamentals on my old CBR 600 f2 I once planned to road race.
BriDrive
| AlpineFD | 01-10-2005 04:42 PM |
[url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heel+and+toe[/url]
| Leadfoot77 | 01-10-2005 04:53 PM |
[url]http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html[/url]
This article says that the heel-toe blip occurs while the clutch is in (i.e. there is no double clutch involved). I'm confused about the difference between blipping the throttle with the clutch in vs. clutch out and out of gear (N) ? I thought that with the clutch out in neutral you are not only getting the engine revs up but you also get the gears spinning at the same speed for an easier shift?
This article says that the heel-toe blip occurs while the clutch is in (i.e. there is no double clutch involved). I'm confused about the difference between blipping the throttle with the clutch in vs. clutch out and out of gear (N) ? I thought that with the clutch out in neutral you are not only getting the engine revs up but you also get the gears spinning at the same speed for an easier shift?
| Trunk_Monkey | 01-10-2005 04:55 PM |
You guys do know that in most cars you dont actually use your heel or toe, you just use the left and right side of your foot. As far as I know then name comes from older cars where the pedals werent set up well like the WRX's.
When you blip the throttle in neutral you are controlling the imput shaft to the transmission but all the gears are disengaged (this allows you to "rev match" the interanals to lessen the wear on syncros or a dogbox style trans); when you blip with clutch pushed in its just the engine spinning.
When you blip the throttle in neutral you are controlling the imput shaft to the transmission but all the gears are disengaged (this allows you to "rev match" the interanals to lessen the wear on syncros or a dogbox style trans); when you blip with clutch pushed in its just the engine spinning.
| GarySheehan | 01-10-2005 04:58 PM |
[QUOTE=Leadfoot77][url]http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html[/url]
This article says that the heel-toe blip occurs while the clutch is in (i.e. there is no double clutch involved). I'm confused about the difference between blipping the throttle with the clutch in vs. clutch out and out of gear (N) ? I thought that with the clutch out in neutral you are not only getting the engine revs up but you also get the gears spinning at the same speed for an easier shift?[/QUOTE]
True. Clutch-out neutral blip is double-clutching. Clutch-in blipping while the shifter is travelling to the lower gear is rev-matching.
I double-clutch for the sake of the gearbox.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
This article says that the heel-toe blip occurs while the clutch is in (i.e. there is no double clutch involved). I'm confused about the difference between blipping the throttle with the clutch in vs. clutch out and out of gear (N) ? I thought that with the clutch out in neutral you are not only getting the engine revs up but you also get the gears spinning at the same speed for an easier shift?[/QUOTE]
True. Clutch-out neutral blip is double-clutching. Clutch-in blipping while the shifter is travelling to the lower gear is rev-matching.
I double-clutch for the sake of the gearbox.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| leecea | 01-10-2005 05:33 PM |
I think rev matching saves clutch wear plus stops that annoying lurch of engine braking!
| Synx | 01-10-2005 06:05 PM |
I dont double unless i need to get into first at around 25mph. But i rev-match with heal-toe every down shift to stop/allow and controll weight transfer/distribution to front or back while cornering.
| bemani | 01-10-2005 06:15 PM |
[QUOTE=M]a lot of racecar drivers blip the throttle with their toes, and brake with the heel. very difficult in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, interesting ... I guess that's better in some situations since it will upset the car less than heel toe.
Hmm, interesting ... I guess that's better in some situations since it will upset the car less than heel toe.
| KoneKiller | 01-10-2005 06:44 PM |
[QUOTE=M]a lot of racecar drivers blip the throttle with their toes, and brake with the heel. very difficult in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I know a trainload of racers and never have I seen that done. Anyone else?
I know a trainload of racers and never have I seen that done. Anyone else?
| Trunk_Monkey | 01-10-2005 06:55 PM |
[QUOTE=leecea]I think rev matching saves clutch wear plus stops that annoying lurch of engine braking![/QUOTE]
WTLW!!1!!!!!one
:p
WTLW!!1!!!!!one
:p
| GarySheehan | 01-10-2005 07:51 PM |
[QUOTE=KoneKiller]I know a trainload of racers and never have I seen that done. Anyone else?[/QUOTE]
I know some do, but it is bad. Thigh muscles do not offer the fine motor control that the ankle and toe muscles do, so braking with the heel is not as accurate.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
I know some do, but it is bad. Thigh muscles do not offer the fine motor control that the ankle and toe muscles do, so braking with the heel is not as accurate.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
[url]www.teamSMR.com[/url]
| fastwrx | 01-10-2005 08:01 PM |
Just a few weeks ago, I did Skippy's 2-day Advanced racing school. In the 3-day racing school (done 3 years ago), we used Formula Dodge cars with 5-speed "H-pattern" trannies that had to be double-clutched / rev-matched for down shifts. For the advanced 2-day school, we used the Formula Dodge R/T 2000 cars that have a sequential shifter. For that tranny, it was single-clutching only. You can't hit neutral halfway through.
I really liked the sequential shifter... especially for upshifting with no clutch at all.
Mike
I really liked the sequential shifter... especially for upshifting with no clutch at all.
Mike
| Leadfoot77 | 01-10-2005 08:07 PM |
OK so the difference between double clutching and rev matching is spinning gears and engine vs. just engine... right?
And all heel-toe is is just doing one of these while braking at the same time?
And all heel-toe is is just doing one of these while braking at the same time?
| kwak | 01-10-2005 08:09 PM |
What part of your feet are used has to do with the pedal setup in your particular car AND what kind of movement your feet will do. I've seen all styles. My foot cannot do heel on the gas.
The key (already pointed out) is to learn to use the ball of your foot will braking with a constant pressure and be able to pivot your foot at the same time. It is a LOT easier doing this on the race track when you are using maximum braking and need to give the engine a good blip than on the street where you might be braking at different rates all the time.
I do it single clutching in cars with syncro gearboxes on both the street and track.
[QUOTE=leecea]I think rev matching saves clutch wear plus stops that annoying lurch of engine braking![/QUOTE] We have a winner! Sorry ITWRX4ME, but your reasons in post #9 are mixed up.
The purpose of heal-and-toe downshifting is to brake and downshift without causing the downshift to upset the car. You want to brake at maximum traction, complete the downshift smoothly by rev matching so the car does not lurch and break traction(!), and get all this done before turnin.
edit:
Forgot to mention double clutching is needed for non-synchro gearboxes like old school buses! :p
The key (already pointed out) is to learn to use the ball of your foot will braking with a constant pressure and be able to pivot your foot at the same time. It is a LOT easier doing this on the race track when you are using maximum braking and need to give the engine a good blip than on the street where you might be braking at different rates all the time.
I do it single clutching in cars with syncro gearboxes on both the street and track.
[QUOTE=leecea]I think rev matching saves clutch wear plus stops that annoying lurch of engine braking![/QUOTE] We have a winner! Sorry ITWRX4ME, but your reasons in post #9 are mixed up.
The purpose of heal-and-toe downshifting is to brake and downshift without causing the downshift to upset the car. You want to brake at maximum traction, complete the downshift smoothly by rev matching so the car does not lurch and break traction(!), and get all this done before turnin.
edit:
Forgot to mention double clutching is needed for non-synchro gearboxes like old school buses! :p
| Jonnyfilmboy | 01-11-2005 01:25 AM |
I do it every time I drive stick when I am downshifting. You don't always have to use your heel and toe. Try and use the toe of your foot to brake and roll it to the outside to blip the throttle with your ankle/side of foot. I find that this works best for me becasue the WRX pedals are so close together. Sounds like you might have larger feet like me.
Ever try and brake with your left foot? You have to train the muscles to a certain extent. But heel-toeing is easier than left foot braking.
As for double clutching, you really only have to do that if you want to not use your synchros in your gearbox, as when your engine is putting out lots of power. Coudl add years to the life of your tranny. Otherwise, it is a waste of time with a modern transmission.
Ever try and brake with your left foot? You have to train the muscles to a certain extent. But heel-toeing is easier than left foot braking.
As for double clutching, you really only have to do that if you want to not use your synchros in your gearbox, as when your engine is putting out lots of power. Coudl add years to the life of your tranny. Otherwise, it is a waste of time with a modern transmission.
| Leadfoot77 | 01-11-2005 08:56 AM |
can somebody elaborate on why double-clutching is better for hte gear box than just rev-matchin?
EDIT: RE: the post above this one, doesn't rev-matching reduce stress on the synchros as well?
EDIT: RE: the post above this one, doesn't rev-matching reduce stress on the synchros as well?
| KoneKiller | 01-11-2005 09:10 AM |
Ok... lemme take a stab at it:
Rev-matching, by blipping the throttle before releasing the clutch on a downshift, leads to less shock on all driveline components because the wheels do not have to accelerate the crankshaft of the engine when the clutch is released. But it doesn't affect synchros.
Double-clutching, which can be done on upshifts or downshifts, adds an additional step to rev matching. Imagine a downshift. You lift off the gas, push the clutch in and pull the shifter into neutral. At this point, the input shaft side of the gearbox stops spinning almost instantly because of friction and drag from the oil. The tailshaft side of the gearbox continues to spin at whatever speed the driven wheels dictate. When you attempt to put the car into a lower gear, the synchros (which are a lot like small clutches) rub against the gear you are shifting to and spin the input side of the gearbox up to the correct speed to make the shift grunch free. A skilled driver can assist this process by spinning the motor up to the correct speed, releasing the clutch for a moment while the gearbox is in neutral to spin the input shaft side of the gearbox to the a speed matching the output side, before pushing the clutch in again and quickly selecting the gear. The clutch is released again and off we go.
I hope that was as clear to you as it is to me.
Rev-matching, by blipping the throttle before releasing the clutch on a downshift, leads to less shock on all driveline components because the wheels do not have to accelerate the crankshaft of the engine when the clutch is released. But it doesn't affect synchros.
Double-clutching, which can be done on upshifts or downshifts, adds an additional step to rev matching. Imagine a downshift. You lift off the gas, push the clutch in and pull the shifter into neutral. At this point, the input shaft side of the gearbox stops spinning almost instantly because of friction and drag from the oil. The tailshaft side of the gearbox continues to spin at whatever speed the driven wheels dictate. When you attempt to put the car into a lower gear, the synchros (which are a lot like small clutches) rub against the gear you are shifting to and spin the input side of the gearbox up to the correct speed to make the shift grunch free. A skilled driver can assist this process by spinning the motor up to the correct speed, releasing the clutch for a moment while the gearbox is in neutral to spin the input shaft side of the gearbox to the a speed matching the output side, before pushing the clutch in again and quickly selecting the gear. The clutch is released again and off we go.
I hope that was as clear to you as it is to me.
| JustAnotherGuy | 01-11-2005 10:39 AM |
[QUOTE=8Complex]I've got wide feet and actually use the left side of the ball of my foot for the brake, and blip the throttle with the side/lower of the right side of my foot. It's extrememly easy in an Impreza... forget about ever trying it in a Honda, though, I've never driven one with the gas pedal within reach, even during full braking.[/QUOTE]
[b]!!!!![/b]
I would be very wary of using this technique. In the past I used to use this method as it was a great deal easier for me than actually pivoting my heel over to the gas. In fact, I had used it for three solid years of auto-x events with no issues. Then I went to my first track day. Coming down a straight I had to scrub a lot of speed for the upcoming corner. In an auto-x I had never had to use the brakes like this before. Therefore, when attempting to blip the throttle with the side of my foot while [b]heavily[/b] braking with the other side, my foot slid off the brake pedal. Talk about a scary moment. I at first attributed it to bad foot position but attempting it again in the next corner led to similar results. Since that event I've changed my technique and have yet to encounter a slide-off issue. Just something to be aware of.
[b]!!!!![/b]
I would be very wary of using this technique. In the past I used to use this method as it was a great deal easier for me than actually pivoting my heel over to the gas. In fact, I had used it for three solid years of auto-x events with no issues. Then I went to my first track day. Coming down a straight I had to scrub a lot of speed for the upcoming corner. In an auto-x I had never had to use the brakes like this before. Therefore, when attempting to blip the throttle with the side of my foot while [b]heavily[/b] braking with the other side, my foot slid off the brake pedal. Talk about a scary moment. I at first attributed it to bad foot position but attempting it again in the next corner led to similar results. Since that event I've changed my technique and have yet to encounter a slide-off issue. Just something to be aware of.
| jamesfacts | 01-11-2005 11:50 AM |
[QUOTE=M]a lot of racecar drivers blip the throttle with their toes, and brake with the heel. very difficult in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Thats how I do it. :confused:
Not that I'm any good.... :o
Thats how I do it. :confused:
Not that I'm any good.... :o
| randy zimmer | 01-11-2005 11:58 AM |
heal and toe stuff
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This stuff is pretty old - cars were not too advanced.
With no syncromesh, you needed to match revs perfectly or double clutch - which would allow a little leeway.
I had to double my old Mini into first (non-syncro).
My brother's MG TD had/has a rod with a little roller at the end for a gas pedal and it was waaay below the brake pedal, so heel and toe made sense in that car. It also had no syncro in first.
Racers knew there was a better way and pre-selector boxes were the rage for a while.
Move the lever before you wanted the gear change and the press the clutch to make the change. I think Hobb's dad made one as did a Wilson.
Dogs work great - especially with a clutch but are hard to engage at a standstill so many syncro types are used today.
They work pretty good and are a lot stronger than in the past.
rz
With no syncromesh, you needed to match revs perfectly or double clutch - which would allow a little leeway.
I had to double my old Mini into first (non-syncro).
My brother's MG TD had/has a rod with a little roller at the end for a gas pedal and it was waaay below the brake pedal, so heel and toe made sense in that car. It also had no syncro in first.
Racers knew there was a better way and pre-selector boxes were the rage for a while.
Move the lever before you wanted the gear change and the press the clutch to make the change. I think Hobb's dad made one as did a Wilson.
Dogs work great - especially with a clutch but are hard to engage at a standstill so many syncro types are used today.
They work pretty good and are a lot stronger than in the past.
rz
| KoneKiller | 01-11-2005 12:01 PM |
I don't find I have the sensitivity in my thigh muscles to brake effectively with my heel. The difference between just right and too much brake force is often just a twitch of the toe.
In my estimate, a key factor for successful heel/toe braking is pedal adjustment. Spacing between is important and very individual, but I also think that the height of the pedals is crucial. I feel it's important that the brake pedal be at about the same level as the gas button when you are right at maximum brake pedal pressure. You should be doing your heel/toeing (on the track) during the latter phase of your maximum braking. If the brake pedal is at the same height at the gas when you have it pressed firmly, you can easily shift your heel a tad (either roll or swivel) and give it a quick blip. Of course, on a WRX that blip seems to take a while to get the revs up. On a race prepped motor, it's very quick.
In my estimate, a key factor for successful heel/toe braking is pedal adjustment. Spacing between is important and very individual, but I also think that the height of the pedals is crucial. I feel it's important that the brake pedal be at about the same level as the gas button when you are right at maximum brake pedal pressure. You should be doing your heel/toeing (on the track) during the latter phase of your maximum braking. If the brake pedal is at the same height at the gas when you have it pressed firmly, you can easily shift your heel a tad (either roll or swivel) and give it a quick blip. Of course, on a WRX that blip seems to take a while to get the revs up. On a race prepped motor, it's very quick.
| Rodan | 01-11-2005 12:08 PM |
I roll my foot that seems to work best for me.
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