| williaty | 01-20-2007 05:10 PM |
Common Failure Points in MY05 RS Wagons?
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Hello,
In prepping my car for AX, TSDs, and getting to paddling/backpacking events (basically off-road/gravel stage rally roads, just driven slower), I'm trying to identify the most likely failure points and then address them. So far, I've obviously got the front and rear skids and replacing the Taco link (front lateral link) with something solid.
So what else goes ping, pop, crunch, bang, zoing, or thud and regular basis?
Ty
In prepping my car for AX, TSDs, and getting to paddling/backpacking events (basically off-road/gravel stage rally roads, just driven slower), I'm trying to identify the most likely failure points and then address them. So far, I've obviously got the front and rear skids and replacing the Taco link (front lateral link) with something solid.
So what else goes ping, pop, crunch, bang, zoing, or thud and regular basis?
Ty
| Patrick Olsen | 01-20-2007 06:03 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16743756]... and replacing the Taco link (front lateral link) with something solid.[/QUOTE]
:confused: If you're referring to the front control arms then I'm not sure why you think they're weak. You must be reading too many threads by idiots whose RE92s screwed them :rolleyes: and made them crash into a curb at 40mph.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
:confused: If you're referring to the front control arms then I'm not sure why you think they're weak. You must be reading too many threads by idiots whose RE92s screwed them :rolleyes: and made them crash into a curb at 40mph.
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
| williaty | 01-20-2007 06:10 PM |
Patric, there aren't lateral links on the front end. The front lateral link refers to the forward most lateral link on the rear suspension. On the RS models, this link is a folded U of metal, not a rod like the rear lateral link.
Actually, my RE92s did screw me (sudden random hydroplaning... WHEEEE!) and put me into a curb at 40mph, but there wasn't any damage... leads to my believing that the front control arm is quite strong.
Actually, my RE92s did screw me (sudden random hydroplaning... WHEEEE!) and put me into a curb at 40mph, but there wasn't any damage... leads to my believing that the front control arm is quite strong.
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 06:26 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16744146]Patric, there aren't lateral links on the front end. The front lateral link refers to the forward most lateral link on the rear suspension. On the RS models, this link is a folded U of metal, not a rod like the rear lateral link.
Actually, my RE92s did screw me (sudden random hydroplaning... WHEEEE!) and put me into a curb at 40mph, but there wasn't any damage... leads to my believing that the front control arm is quite strong.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean the swaybar end link?
Actually, my RE92s did screw me (sudden random hydroplaning... WHEEEE!) and put me into a curb at 40mph, but there wasn't any damage... leads to my believing that the front control arm is quite strong.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean the swaybar end link?
| williaty | 01-20-2007 06:29 PM |
Sigh... No, I mean the front lateral link, which is often called the Taco link because it is shaped like one and breaks just about as easily.
So does anyone have any common failure points to share?
So does anyone have any common failure points to share?
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 06:33 PM |
WTF are you talking about.
Post a pic.
Post a pic.
| Fred | 01-20-2007 06:46 PM |
Good grief! He's talking about the forwardmost of the 2 pairs of REAR lateral links. Just drop it alreay. :lol:
You might want to replace the ball joints and tie rods with the MOOG parts. And watch out for wheel bearings wearing out.
Can't think of anything else. They're pretty tough.
You might want to replace the ball joints and tie rods with the MOOG parts. And watch out for wheel bearings wearing out.
Can't think of anything else. They're pretty tough.
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 06:54 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;16744424]Good grief! He's talking about the forwardmost of the 2 pairs of REAR lateral links. Just drop it alreay. :lol:
You might want to replace the ball joints and tie rods with the MOOG parts. And watch out for wheel bearings wearing out.
Can't think of anything else. They're pretty tough.[/QUOTE]
He still makes 0, zip, zilch, zero sense.
The only time I have seen lateral links "break" (I say "break" because they were bent) is in an accident, and it's almost always the rear lateral link, not the forward rear.
These are lateral links (and a trailing arm)
[IMG]http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/subsus/sti_llink.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
Note the lack of similarities between the two.
You might want to replace the ball joints and tie rods with the MOOG parts. And watch out for wheel bearings wearing out.
Can't think of anything else. They're pretty tough.[/QUOTE]
He still makes 0, zip, zilch, zero sense.
The only time I have seen lateral links "break" (I say "break" because they were bent) is in an accident, and it's almost always the rear lateral link, not the forward rear.
These are lateral links (and a trailing arm)
[IMG]http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/subsus/sti_llink.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
Note the lack of similarities between the two.
| Fred | 01-20-2007 07:18 PM |
I've never bent or broken one of them, either - and I'm sure if they will bend that easily, mine would be unrecognizable by now. All of the bent lateral links I've seen from rally cars are the round (rear) links. But if he wants to replace his perfectly good lateral links with tacos or burritos or whatever, I really don't give a crap. :)
(There are plenty of people replacing perfectly good stock suspensions that they'll never outdrive with $4000 coilovers, so I think this one is minor. :lol: )
So anyway... what was the topic of this thread??? :confused:
(There are plenty of people replacing perfectly good stock suspensions that they'll never outdrive with $4000 coilovers, so I think this one is minor. :lol: )
So anyway... what was the topic of this thread??? :confused:
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 07:41 PM |
[QUOTE=Fred;16744699]I've never bent or broken one of them, either - and I'm sure if they will bend that easily, mine would be unrecognizable by now. All of the bent lateral links I've seen from rally cars are the round (rear) links. But if he wants to replace his perfectly good lateral links with tacos or burritos or whatever, I really don't give a crap. :)
(There are plenty of people replacing perfectly good stock suspensions that they'll never outdrive with $4000 coilovers, so I think this one is minor. :lol: )
So anyway... what was the topic of this thread??? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Judging by the pictures I posted I would say pink tacos :lol:
(There are plenty of people replacing perfectly good stock suspensions that they'll never outdrive with $4000 coilovers, so I think this one is minor. :lol: )
So anyway... what was the topic of this thread??? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Judging by the pictures I posted I would say pink tacos :lol:
| Storz | 01-20-2007 09:22 PM |
If you're just doing TSD rallys your car will be fine. I just did one a few weeks ago that was almost 9 hours of driving on super bumpy, pot holed, sloppy dirt roads and my RS did great! TSDs are a riot, you'll love doing them.
| ratt_finkel | 01-20-2007 10:32 PM |
[QUOTE=hondaslayer;16744500]snip snip
Note the lack of similarities between the two.[/QUOTE]
Best post of the year!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Note the lack of similarities between the two.[/QUOTE]
Best post of the year!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
| williaty | 01-20-2007 10:50 PM |
[QUOTE=hondaslayer;16744500]He still makes 0, zip, zilch, zero sense.
The only time I have seen lateral links "break" (I say "break" because they were bent) is in an accident, and it's almost always the rear lateral link, not the forward rear.
These are lateral links (and a trailing arm)
[IMG]http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/subsus/sti_llink.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
Note the lack of similarities between the two.[/QUOTE]
OMG, this is classic NABISCO. OK, those Pink bits you're showing the picture of are in fact lateral links. However, they [b]ARE NOT THE SAME AS WHAT COMES STOCK ON MY05 RS WAGONS[/b]. Those are basically what I want to switch to (just without the Pink paint). The OEM front lateral links on MY05 RS wagons are stamped steel U shaped channels.
They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side. It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home.
The only time I have seen lateral links "break" (I say "break" because they were bent) is in an accident, and it's almost always the rear lateral link, not the forward rear.
These are lateral links (and a trailing arm)
[IMG]http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/subsus/sti_llink.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
Note the lack of similarities between the two.[/QUOTE]
OMG, this is classic NABISCO. OK, those Pink bits you're showing the picture of are in fact lateral links. However, they [b]ARE NOT THE SAME AS WHAT COMES STOCK ON MY05 RS WAGONS[/b]. Those are basically what I want to switch to (just without the Pink paint). The OEM front lateral links on MY05 RS wagons are stamped steel U shaped channels.
They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side. It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home.
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 10:55 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16746287]OMG, this is classic NABISCO. OK, those Pink bits you're showing the picture of are in fact lateral links. However, they [b]ARE NOT THE SAME AS WHAT COMES STOCK ON MY05 RS WAGONS[/b]. Those are basically what I want to switch to (just without the Pink paint). The OEM front lateral links on MY05 RS wagons are stamped steel U shaped channels.
They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side. It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home.[/QUOTE]
No, there is no front lateral link.
What you are talking about is the FORWARD REAR lateral link.
And if they are so weak (as you claim) why have I not replaced one single one in my 6 years of wrenching on Subarus (professionally) I have replaced plenty of rear rear lateral links, but no forwards. The forwards simply do not fail as easily as the rears. Subaru has used this design for many years (AFAIK it originated on the 1990 legacy, although GL/DL/loyale may have used a similar desing). To add, 30 degrees toe in is quite extreme.
Often is simply a farce.
They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side. It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home.[/QUOTE]
No, there is no front lateral link.
What you are talking about is the FORWARD REAR lateral link.
And if they are so weak (as you claim) why have I not replaced one single one in my 6 years of wrenching on Subarus (professionally) I have replaced plenty of rear rear lateral links, but no forwards. The forwards simply do not fail as easily as the rears. Subaru has used this design for many years (AFAIK it originated on the 1990 legacy, although GL/DL/loyale may have used a similar desing). To add, 30 degrees toe in is quite extreme.
Often is simply a farce.
| cooleyjb | 01-20-2007 10:56 PM |
Isn't hondaslayer are subaru service tech? And if he was wouldn't he know about these things??
I think I'll trust hondaslayer on this one.
I think I'll trust hondaslayer on this one.
| williaty | 01-20-2007 11:04 PM |
[QUOTE=hondaslayer;16746322]No, there is no front lateral link.
What you are talking about is the FORWARD REAR lateral link.
And if they are so weak (as you claim) why have I not replaced one single one in my 6 years of wrenching on Subarus (professionally) I have replaced plenty of rear rear lateral links, but no forwards. The forwards simply do not fail as easily as the rears. Subaru has used this design for many years (AFAIK it originated on the 1990 legacy, although GL/DL/loyale may have used a similar desing). To add, 30 degrees toe in is quite extreme.
Often is simply a farce.[/QUOTE]
If you look in the subaru shop manuals for the 05 MY, under the CHASSIS heading, then REAR SUSPENSION, then General Description.pdf on page 2 the part is numbered 11. If you then examine the key to the diagram on page 3, you will see that part 11 is labeled "Front lateral link". I have taken the liberty of compositing the two pages and reproducing them below:
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/other_images/rear_susp.jpg[/IMG]
I would posit that the reason you haven't seen many failures of the U shaped lateral links is that there aren't many of them in the wild. Those of you who are all rich and can afford expensive WRXs don't have to deal with them, you get proper round ones. So multiply the relatively small number of GG chassis, NA wagons running RX or stage rallies on stock suspension by a small but non-negligible failure rate for this part and you get not very many of them running through any one garage. I will concede that 30 is probably unrealistic. I'm mentally picturing the last one I saw it happen to and 10deg to in is probably a more honest number.
What you are talking about is the FORWARD REAR lateral link.
And if they are so weak (as you claim) why have I not replaced one single one in my 6 years of wrenching on Subarus (professionally) I have replaced plenty of rear rear lateral links, but no forwards. The forwards simply do not fail as easily as the rears. Subaru has used this design for many years (AFAIK it originated on the 1990 legacy, although GL/DL/loyale may have used a similar desing). To add, 30 degrees toe in is quite extreme.
Often is simply a farce.[/QUOTE]
If you look in the subaru shop manuals for the 05 MY, under the CHASSIS heading, then REAR SUSPENSION, then General Description.pdf on page 2 the part is numbered 11. If you then examine the key to the diagram on page 3, you will see that part 11 is labeled "Front lateral link". I have taken the liberty of compositing the two pages and reproducing them below:
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/other_images/rear_susp.jpg[/IMG]
I would posit that the reason you haven't seen many failures of the U shaped lateral links is that there aren't many of them in the wild. Those of you who are all rich and can afford expensive WRXs don't have to deal with them, you get proper round ones. So multiply the relatively small number of GG chassis, NA wagons running RX or stage rallies on stock suspension by a small but non-negligible failure rate for this part and you get not very many of them running through any one garage. I will concede that 30 is probably unrealistic. I'm mentally picturing the last one I saw it happen to and 10deg to in is probably a more honest number.
| Hondaslayer | 01-20-2007 11:12 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16746401]If you look in the subaru shop manuals for the 05 MY, under the CHASSIS heading, the REAR SUSPENSION, the part is numbered 11. If you then examine the key to the diagram, you will see that part 11 is labeled "Front lateral link".
I would posit that the reason you haven't seen many failures of the U shaped lateral links is that there aren't many of them in the wild. Those of you who are all rich and can afford expensive WRXs don't have to deal with them, you get proper round ones. So multiply the relatively small number of GG chassis, NA wagons running RX or stage rallies on stock suspension by a small but non-negligible failure rate for this part and you get not very many of them running through any one garage. I will concede that 30 is probably unrealistic. I'm mentally picturing the last one I saw it happen to and 10deg to in is probably a more honest number.[/QUOTE]
And if you look in the parts manuals it is labeled a FORWARD rear lateral link.
If you ask your parts dept for a front lateral link you will get the same confusion put forth by myself and pat.
Read my post, you will see that Subaru has used that design for many years. There are plenty of early Legacy PGT cars running these lateral links with no issues.
Your own words here
"They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. [B]Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side.[/B] It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home."
I work in Detroit, home of the worst roads in the US, if a pothole is going to damage these links, I would have seen it. Again as I have stated already, I have replace plenty of rear rear lateral links due to curbings, but never a forward, and yes, that does include 05 wagons with the stamped lateral link (which BTW is shared with the 03 + Forester X)
I would posit that the reason you haven't seen many failures of the U shaped lateral links is that there aren't many of them in the wild. Those of you who are all rich and can afford expensive WRXs don't have to deal with them, you get proper round ones. So multiply the relatively small number of GG chassis, NA wagons running RX or stage rallies on stock suspension by a small but non-negligible failure rate for this part and you get not very many of them running through any one garage. I will concede that 30 is probably unrealistic. I'm mentally picturing the last one I saw it happen to and 10deg to in is probably a more honest number.[/QUOTE]
And if you look in the parts manuals it is labeled a FORWARD rear lateral link.
If you ask your parts dept for a front lateral link you will get the same confusion put forth by myself and pat.
Read my post, you will see that Subaru has used that design for many years. There are plenty of early Legacy PGT cars running these lateral links with no issues.
Your own words here
"They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. [B]Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side.[/B] It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home."
I work in Detroit, home of the worst roads in the US, if a pothole is going to damage these links, I would have seen it. Again as I have stated already, I have replace plenty of rear rear lateral links due to curbings, but never a forward, and yes, that does include 05 wagons with the stamped lateral link (which BTW is shared with the 03 + Forester X)
| williaty | 01-20-2007 11:47 PM |
[QUOTE=hondaslayer;16746481]I work in Detroit, home of the worst roads in the US, if a pothole is going to damage these links, I would have seen it. Again as I have stated already, I have replace plenty of rear rear lateral links due to curbings, but never a forward, and yes, that does include 05 wagons with the stamped lateral link (which BTW is shared with the 03 + Forester X)[/QUOTE]
Well, IANASCT (I Am Not A Subaru Certified Technician), but I have seen two of these failures in the last 2 years. One was legitimate hoonage, broken during a RX stunt (stunt in the "I've lost lets horse around these last runs" sense). The other was someone tagging a pothole on the freeway. Maybe the fact that I have seen two of these is due to the fact that ODOT lays down salt if the temps drop below 70F. It's possible corrosion contributed to the failures.
As far as the difference in naming, if Subaru can't decide what to call it, what chance have we?
Well, IANASCT (I Am Not A Subaru Certified Technician), but I have seen two of these failures in the last 2 years. One was legitimate hoonage, broken during a RX stunt (stunt in the "I've lost lets horse around these last runs" sense). The other was someone tagging a pothole on the freeway. Maybe the fact that I have seen two of these is due to the fact that ODOT lays down salt if the temps drop below 70F. It's possible corrosion contributed to the failures.
As far as the difference in naming, if Subaru can't decide what to call it, what chance have we?
| williaty | 01-20-2007 11:49 PM |
[QUOTE=hondaslayer;16746481]
Your own words here
"They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. [B]Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side.[/B] It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home."[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then in my reply to you I admitted that 10 degrees was probably much closer to the truth once I examined my mental picture of it more closely.
Your own words here
"They are very flexible under normal use, and will fail EASILY if you push towards the rear of the car in the middle of the link. Basically, if you press on them right, the U collapses and then the link is just a 1/8" steel strip. [B]Often people will drive one wheel into a pothole, tag the front lateral link on the edge of the pothole, and roll out of the pothole with 30deg toe in on that side.[/B] It would be REALLY easy to catch this on a stump, rock, rut, or very sturdy porcupine and end up not being able to drive home."[/QUOTE]
Yes, and then in my reply to you I admitted that 10 degrees was probably much closer to the truth once I examined my mental picture of it more closely.
| Patrick Olsen | 01-21-2007 12:42 AM |
FWIW, I've seen people refer to the front control arms as front lateral links, hence my initial question/comment. [i]I[/i] know the front control arms aren't lateral links, but not everyone is as smart as I am. ;)
OK, now that semantics are out of the way, I have to agree with hondaslayer that the lateral links aren't that weak. The stamped U typed ones have been used on hundreds of thousands of Subarus over the past 15 years. But, there are performance benefits to replacing them with "stronger" ones (better bushings and better alignment adjustability if you get adjustable ones), so go for it.
As for other parts that might be worth replacing, the only thing I can think of would be the soft OEM rubber strut top mounts. If you'll be doing a lot of rough road travel they'll wear out. I don't know if I've ever seen any mention of one actually failing, but you could see how soft my stock ones got over time compared to new ones by bouncing the suspension and watching them deflect.
Pat
OK, now that semantics are out of the way, I have to agree with hondaslayer that the lateral links aren't that weak. The stamped U typed ones have been used on hundreds of thousands of Subarus over the past 15 years. But, there are performance benefits to replacing them with "stronger" ones (better bushings and better alignment adjustability if you get adjustable ones), so go for it.
As for other parts that might be worth replacing, the only thing I can think of would be the soft OEM rubber strut top mounts. If you'll be doing a lot of rough road travel they'll wear out. I don't know if I've ever seen any mention of one actually failing, but you could see how soft my stock ones got over time compared to new ones by bouncing the suspension and watching them deflect.
Pat
| williaty | 01-21-2007 12:48 AM |
Interesting, I would have never suspected that the Strut Tops were a wear item. If I replace then with the Group N components, will the Group N ones eventually wear out too?
| Hondaslayer | 01-21-2007 01:12 AM |
[QUOTE=Patrick Olsen;16747268]I don't know if I've ever seen any mention of one actually failing, but you could see how soft my stock ones got over time compared to new ones by bouncing the suspension and watching them deflect.
Pat[/QUOTE]
High mileage the rubber tends to come apart.
Oddly enough I actually broke one this morning messing around in a cunstruction site :lol:
Pat[/QUOTE]
High mileage the rubber tends to come apart.
Oddly enough I actually broke one this morning messing around in a cunstruction site :lol:
| urabus555 | 01-21-2007 08:07 AM |
I really don't care what name we can ALL agree on. But the "tacos" bend. One 400km Notes Familiarization Pass (6okm/h max speed) on rough rally roads and my passenger side "taco" is toast. This is not uncommon for anyone who OFTEN drives on rough roads. Within the first three months of owning each of my three Subarus, I have needed to replace the "taco". I OFTEN drive (and compete) on rough roads. Perhaps this is why some people do not have to deal with this - common to me - fialure. I always replace the "taco" with a "burrito". With 300,000+ km's... 3+ years (OFTEN on rough roads) I have only replaced one "burrito"... a rear "burrito"!
If people can not get over this fact, I will have to get off my lazy a*s, learn how to post pictures, and show you the one on my car (and perhaps the other one I still have sitting on a shelf) before my replacement arrives.
I hardly ever post, but I would love to see this forum progress!
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.
If people can not get over this fact, I will have to get off my lazy a*s, learn how to post pictures, and show you the one on my car (and perhaps the other one I still have sitting on a shelf) before my replacement arrives.
I hardly ever post, but I would love to see this forum progress!
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.
| Robin2 | 01-21-2007 05:04 PM |
I would upgrade your suspension also... from putting kyb/agx and maybe using some Impreza OBS springs to raise the car with groupN top hats.
One of my friends did some autox with 05rs wagon and he used some kyb agx... i think he used GC kyb/agx (front) and GD kyb/agx in the back. cause kyb/agx didn't have a listing for his 05rs in 2005.
For TSD's, the stock struts are pretty weak... and are slow to react.... I usually run some TSD (drivex events) not the navex types in the fall/winter... and use kyb/agx... (not my coilovers for this use).
One of my friends did some autox with 05rs wagon and he used some kyb agx... i think he used GC kyb/agx (front) and GD kyb/agx in the back. cause kyb/agx didn't have a listing for his 05rs in 2005.
For TSD's, the stock struts are pretty weak... and are slow to react.... I usually run some TSD (drivex events) not the navex types in the fall/winter... and use kyb/agx... (not my coilovers for this use).
| williaty | 01-21-2007 05:43 PM |
[QUOTE=urabus555;16748711]I really don't care what name we can ALL agree on. But the "tacos" bend. One 400km Notes Familiarization Pass (6okm/h max speed) on rough rally roads and my passenger side "taco" is toast. This is not uncommon for anyone who OFTEN drives on rough roads. Within the first three months of owning each of my three Subarus, I have needed to replace the "taco". I OFTEN drive (and compete) on rough roads. Perhaps this is why some people do not have to deal with this - common to me - fialure. I always replace the "taco" with a "burrito". With 300,000+ km's... 3+ years (OFTEN on rough roads) I have only replaced one "burrito"... a rear "burrito"!
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for weighing in. I knew this wasn't an idea I had just made up to incite a flame war.
So what Burrito have you got in your rear end?
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for weighing in. I knew this wasn't an idea I had just made up to incite a flame war.
So what Burrito have you got in your rear end?
| akuhner | 01-21-2007 05:44 PM |
Nothing on your car is a serious weak point for Auto-x, TSDs and light gravel road travel. People do stage rallies with completely stock suspension links and finish events successfully, you are fine with just skid plates.
I do think I know what the "taco" you are talking about is, but they are still stock on my rally car and they are just fine. If you want to find something stronger go for it, but even if you did bend one in a TSD, in all likelihood you'd still be able to make it home.
I do think I know what the "taco" you are talking about is, but they are still stock on my rally car and they are just fine. If you want to find something stronger go for it, but even if you did bend one in a TSD, in all likelihood you'd still be able to make it home.
| williaty | 01-21-2007 05:45 PM |
[QUOTE=Robin2;16752388]For TSD's, the stock struts are pretty weak... and are slow to react.... I usually run some TSD (drivex events) not the navex types in the fall/winter... and use kyb/agx... (not my coilovers for this use).[/QUOTE]
OK, I give, I'm a noob... drivex and navex? Wtf, mate?
OK, I give, I'm a noob... drivex and navex? Wtf, mate?
| williaty | 01-21-2007 05:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Car #187;16752794]Nothing on your car is a serious weak point for Auto-x, TSDs and light gravel road travel. People do stage rallies with completely stock suspension links and finish events successfully, you are fine with just skid plates.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the problem isn't the TSDs, the AXs or any other organized event. You're right, if I broke down on one of them, there's a structure in place to realize that I am missing and to help me.
Honestly, it's going into the backcountry that worries me. While I do everything I can to baby the car and we carry enough supplies to hike out from any point of the planned trip, it only takes one of us breaking an ankle plus puncturing the oil pan or one of us getting snakebit plus a suspension component getting bent/broken to suddenly turn a well planned trip into a life threatening situation. While most people might call it "light gravel road travel" I also know that, last trip out, traversing a Forest Service road at <5mph, I rolled a wheel down into a hole that was much deeper than I thought it was and the result was massive gouging on the front subframe. Had it been a rear wheel, I would have taken out the front lateral link.
Hardening the car against competition is just so I don't hurt my baby, hardening the car against the backcountry is so everyone comes home.
Actually, the problem isn't the TSDs, the AXs or any other organized event. You're right, if I broke down on one of them, there's a structure in place to realize that I am missing and to help me.
Honestly, it's going into the backcountry that worries me. While I do everything I can to baby the car and we carry enough supplies to hike out from any point of the planned trip, it only takes one of us breaking an ankle plus puncturing the oil pan or one of us getting snakebit plus a suspension component getting bent/broken to suddenly turn a well planned trip into a life threatening situation. While most people might call it "light gravel road travel" I also know that, last trip out, traversing a Forest Service road at <5mph, I rolled a wheel down into a hole that was much deeper than I thought it was and the result was massive gouging on the front subframe. Had it been a rear wheel, I would have taken out the front lateral link.
Hardening the car against competition is just so I don't hurt my baby, hardening the car against the backcountry is so everyone comes home.
| Robin2 | 01-21-2007 06:51 PM |
It must be a Canadian terms for TSD rallies cause we have 2 types:
1. drivex... loads of fun for the driver... it's as close as you'll get to performance rallies without the cost of performance rallies.... speeds are still 90% of posted speed limits... the route book is like performance rallies... straightforward and no tricks. It's not rally that you go as fast as possible but you need to maintain a CAS (Commence Average Speed).
2. navex are slower and usually tend to have tricks in the route book and try to get you lost. A lot more work for the co-driver and it's easier for the driver.
Other than that.... spend some $$ on tires.... if you're still using 92's that's a mistake.... get something blockier... even use cheap snow tires... I use our driver's (pro rally driver) old rally tires for my tsd events...
1. drivex... loads of fun for the driver... it's as close as you'll get to performance rallies without the cost of performance rallies.... speeds are still 90% of posted speed limits... the route book is like performance rallies... straightforward and no tricks. It's not rally that you go as fast as possible but you need to maintain a CAS (Commence Average Speed).
2. navex are slower and usually tend to have tricks in the route book and try to get you lost. A lot more work for the co-driver and it's easier for the driver.
Other than that.... spend some $$ on tires.... if you're still using 92's that's a mistake.... get something blockier... even use cheap snow tires... I use our driver's (pro rally driver) old rally tires for my tsd events...
| ratt_finkel | 01-21-2007 08:56 PM |
[QUOTE=Car #187;16752794]Nothing on your car is a serious weak point for Auto-x, TSDs and light gravel road travel. People do stage rallies with completely stock suspension links and finish events successfully, you are fine with just skid plates.
I do think I know what the "taco" you are talking about is, but they are still stock on my rally car and they are just fine. If you want to find something stronger go for it, but even if you did bend one in a TSD, in all likelihood you'd still be able to make it home.[/QUOTE]
Bingo, Jeff Templton had no problem launching his rally prepared RS over a berm and into a swamp bog here in texas and back out at high speeds. The extent of the damage was a bent front tow hook. He runs stock springs with AGX's. And tacos.
I do think I know what the "taco" you are talking about is, but they are still stock on my rally car and they are just fine. If you want to find something stronger go for it, but even if you did bend one in a TSD, in all likelihood you'd still be able to make it home.[/QUOTE]
Bingo, Jeff Templton had no problem launching his rally prepared RS over a berm and into a swamp bog here in texas and back out at high speeds. The extent of the damage was a bent front tow hook. He runs stock springs with AGX's. And tacos.
| Impreza01 | 01-21-2007 10:33 PM |
Does anyone have any pictures for this suspension piece (the taco)? I'm curious to see how it's designed and why would it be a cost saver (the only reason I can see it being used as oppose to a regular rod).
| williaty | 01-21-2007 10:38 PM |
If it ever stops pouring down brown slush, I will take a picture. The forecast says that won't happen for several days though.
| rallynutdon | 01-21-2007 11:11 PM |
16 years of stage rallying Legacys and Imprezas with stock "Taco" unit and never one bent (ther than the time I tore off the whole left rear assembly on a rock).
| akuhner | 01-22-2007 09:03 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16752917]Hardening the car against competition is just so I don't hurt my baby, hardening the car against the backcountry is so everyone comes home.[/QUOTE]
Well now those risks are beyond me - I'd rather risk my life IN the car. :p /jk
I still think that if you bent one of those you could still get home. If it's life and death, drive it until the wheel falls off, who cares? If it bends badly your rear tire will be out of line, and the worst that could happen is that it contacts the car and can't rotate anymore. At that point, you let the air out of the tire to see if it will spin, if not take the wheel off and see if the spare will fit and turn. It wouldn't be easy, but you could probably keep moving....
If some other model of Subaru has that same part and it's not a "taco" design couldn't you just pick up one of those and swap it in?
Well now those risks are beyond me - I'd rather risk my life IN the car. :p /jk
I still think that if you bent one of those you could still get home. If it's life and death, drive it until the wheel falls off, who cares? If it bends badly your rear tire will be out of line, and the worst that could happen is that it contacts the car and can't rotate anymore. At that point, you let the air out of the tire to see if it will spin, if not take the wheel off and see if the spare will fit and turn. It wouldn't be easy, but you could probably keep moving....
If some other model of Subaru has that same part and it's not a "taco" design couldn't you just pick up one of those and swap it in?
| williaty | 01-22-2007 09:29 PM |
[QUOTE=Car #187;16769337]Well now those risks are beyond me - I'd rather risk my life IN the car. :p /jk
I still think that if you bent one of those you could still get home. If it's life and death, drive it until the wheel falls off, who cares? If it bends badly your rear tire will be out of line, and the worst that could happen is that it contacts the car and can't rotate anymore. At that point, you let the air out of the tire to see if it will spin, if not take the wheel off and see if the spare will fit and turn. It wouldn't be easy, but you could probably keep moving....
If some other model of Subaru has that same part and it's not a "taco" design couldn't you just pick up one of those and swap it in?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know that I can drag a lame wheel home, especially on the loose and rough but I still would rather not have too. In point of fact, yes, you can swap the front lateral link from any 05+ WRX into any older model. Since I could only afford an RS, I got stuck with the Taco link. In a totally unseen twist of events, there's a set of those on their way to my house right now. That's why I said I had the skid plates and taco links covered, though now I'm annoyed I even brought it up.
I'm really looking for other failure points but pretty much everyone seems focused on proving that since they're never seen a taco link failing it can't possibly be a legitimate concern no matter how many other people claim failures.
I still think that if you bent one of those you could still get home. If it's life and death, drive it until the wheel falls off, who cares? If it bends badly your rear tire will be out of line, and the worst that could happen is that it contacts the car and can't rotate anymore. At that point, you let the air out of the tire to see if it will spin, if not take the wheel off and see if the spare will fit and turn. It wouldn't be easy, but you could probably keep moving....
If some other model of Subaru has that same part and it's not a "taco" design couldn't you just pick up one of those and swap it in?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I know that I can drag a lame wheel home, especially on the loose and rough but I still would rather not have too. In point of fact, yes, you can swap the front lateral link from any 05+ WRX into any older model. Since I could only afford an RS, I got stuck with the Taco link. In a totally unseen twist of events, there's a set of those on their way to my house right now. That's why I said I had the skid plates and taco links covered, though now I'm annoyed I even brought it up.
I'm really looking for other failure points but pretty much everyone seems focused on proving that since they're never seen a taco link failing it can't possibly be a legitimate concern no matter how many other people claim failures.
| RB5 Clone | 01-23-2007 10:31 AM |
so run the Primitive Full body Armor rear diff protector, and it also helps guard the rear suspension. I've landed the readdiff on toaster-size rocks at 60-70 mph, and the bits under there lived to rtell the tale.
I have run the rear taco arms on a stage rally car for 20-some events, with ZERO failures despite tearing the rear susp apart on a few occasions. If you want, you can weld a reinforcement across the U of the taco (which we've done) and this def helps. key thing to remember is that these parts are engineered to bend rather than break if smacked, so iven a hoffific hit will still leave you with something to hold the car up off the groun.! ;)
for what you're talking about, consider fabbing 1/8" skidplates to armor the stock gas tank. these mount thru bolt holes at the front and flat-bar L brackets at the rear. look underneath, you'll see what I mean. upgrade the strut tops, that'll help. no need to do the Group N susp bushings, you'll hate the added noise on the street.
upgrade your lighting--if you can't see the bad stuff at night, you're a LOT more likely to hit it. tow strap, 20'....traction mats to back you out of soft sand...an army style folding shovel...tool kit w/spare alt belt, jumper cables, etc
don't obsess about wrecking out there. Simplest thing is not to wreck. best way not to wreck? Don't look at what you're trying to miss...LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. You wont need any of this stuff if you don't stuff it to begin with!
I have run the rear taco arms on a stage rally car for 20-some events, with ZERO failures despite tearing the rear susp apart on a few occasions. If you want, you can weld a reinforcement across the U of the taco (which we've done) and this def helps. key thing to remember is that these parts are engineered to bend rather than break if smacked, so iven a hoffific hit will still leave you with something to hold the car up off the groun.! ;)
for what you're talking about, consider fabbing 1/8" skidplates to armor the stock gas tank. these mount thru bolt holes at the front and flat-bar L brackets at the rear. look underneath, you'll see what I mean. upgrade the strut tops, that'll help. no need to do the Group N susp bushings, you'll hate the added noise on the street.
upgrade your lighting--if you can't see the bad stuff at night, you're a LOT more likely to hit it. tow strap, 20'....traction mats to back you out of soft sand...an army style folding shovel...tool kit w/spare alt belt, jumper cables, etc
don't obsess about wrecking out there. Simplest thing is not to wreck. best way not to wreck? Don't look at what you're trying to miss...LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. You wont need any of this stuff if you don't stuff it to begin with!
| akuhner | 01-23-2007 09:01 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;16769630]I'm really looking for other failure points but pretty much everyone seems focused on proving that since they're never seen a taco link failing it can't possibly be a legitimate concern no matter how many other people claim failures.[/QUOTE]
Ah, but see, there aren't other major common failure points so there's nothing else to focus on! :D
Seriously, you are covered. Skid plates, taco replacements, sensible driving... that's all you really need. If you are worried about blowing a tire, pick up some lightly used rally tires and some 15" alloys to put them on, but beware that they'll suck once you get back on the pavement. If it snows where you go, get some good snow tires. Otherwise, you've done all you should. Your Subaru will never be a tank (or a Jeep, for that matter) regardless of what else you put on it...
Ah, but see, there aren't other major common failure points so there's nothing else to focus on! :D
Seriously, you are covered. Skid plates, taco replacements, sensible driving... that's all you really need. If you are worried about blowing a tire, pick up some lightly used rally tires and some 15" alloys to put them on, but beware that they'll suck once you get back on the pavement. If it snows where you go, get some good snow tires. Otherwise, you've done all you should. Your Subaru will never be a tank (or a Jeep, for that matter) regardless of what else you put on it...
| williaty | 03-01-2007 10:18 PM |
This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco link
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/forum_posts/taco_link.jpg[/IMG]
Note the similarities.
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco link
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/forum_posts/taco_link.jpg[/IMG]
Note the similarities.
| Impreza01 | 03-01-2007 11:45 PM |
Thanks for the picture! You didn't have to waste food though.
| williaty | 03-01-2007 11:50 PM |
Nah, the chips were instantly eaten by the assistant. The link is also stuffed with plastic so there's only a 1 shred deep layer of cheese on there. There's probably not enough food in the link to cover 2 chips.
| SharkWagon | 03-02-2007 02:39 AM |
first off, nice taco.
I would replace the plastic endlinks. I have never, ever trusted plastic endlinks.
I do like tacos though.
I would replace the plastic endlinks. I have never, ever trusted plastic endlinks.
I do like tacos though.
| KC | 03-02-2007 07:55 AM |
[QUOTE=williaty;17229802]This is a taco
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco link
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/forum_posts/taco_link.jpg[/IMG]
Note the similarities.[/QUOTE]
At least you have a sense of humor!!! :lol:
I needed that before a day of meetings. Thanks!!!
--kC
[IMG]http://www.softdoc.es/guia_madrid/comer/imagenes/taco.jpg[/IMG]
This is a taco link
[IMG]http://williaty.dyndns.org/forum_posts/taco_link.jpg[/IMG]
Note the similarities.[/QUOTE]
At least you have a sense of humor!!! :lol:
I needed that before a day of meetings. Thanks!!!
--kC
| Butt Dyno | 03-02-2007 08:25 AM |
will, I like your thread titles.
Frighteningly loose 2.5i, What do I check?
When Do I Check The Tranny Oil Level?
Oil Pan Dented, Do I Care?
I Need Skidplate Before I Die!
Why Do My Plugs Look This Bad?
How Do I Recognize Dead Tires?
Short Shifter - Why Do I Want One?
Big Shunt, Did I Just Break My Car?
Are these endlink toast?
Why Is My Gearbox Obstinate?
Frighteningly loose 2.5i, What do I check?
When Do I Check The Tranny Oil Level?
Oil Pan Dented, Do I Care?
I Need Skidplate Before I Die!
Why Do My Plugs Look This Bad?
How Do I Recognize Dead Tires?
Short Shifter - Why Do I Want One?
Big Shunt, Did I Just Break My Car?
Are these endlink toast?
Why Is My Gearbox Obstinate?
| williaty | 03-02-2007 12:39 PM |
KC, BD,
I do what I can!
Though, BD, I can't tell if you really like my thread titles or if you're being sarcastic.
I do what I can!
Though, BD, I can't tell if you really like my thread titles or if you're being sarcastic.
| williaty | 03-05-2007 03:36 AM |
[QUOTE=RB5 Clone;16775055]for what you're talking about, consider fabbing 1/8" skidplates to armor the stock gas tank. these mount thru bolt holes at the front and flat-bar L brackets at the rear. look underneath, you'll see what I mean. upgrade the strut tops, that'll help. no need to do the Group N susp bushings, you'll hate the added noise on the street.
upgrade your lighting--if you can't see the bad stuff at night, you're a LOT more likely to hit it. tow strap, 20'....traction mats to back you out of soft sand...an army style folding shovel...tool kit w/spare alt belt, jumper cables, etc
don't obsess about wrecking out there. Simplest thing is not to wreck. best way not to wreck? Don't look at what you're trying to miss...LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. You wont need any of this stuff if you don't stuff it to begin with![/QUOTE]
RB5,
Sorry I missed this one somehow. I'd like to thank you for providing a good answer with some points no one else had brought up.
I can't believe I didn't think of armoring the gas tanks! While I could drag the car back to a main road on a lame foot, I certainly couldn't do it on an empty stomach! Do you know if anyone sells off-the-shelf tank protection?
The upgraded lighting is being worked out now. Looks like 2 Hella Rallye 1000 FFs level with the stock headlights and two Hella 500 fogs as low as I can get them.
While I carry a "get out of the hole you just dug for yourself" bag in winter, I hadn't thought to carry one in the summer too. Sounds like some rope (real rope, I'm a climber, none of this Home Depot nylon crap), a come-along, and a better tool selection than I carry now would be a good idea for it.
Why the spare alt belt? Do they really fail that often? Are they that easy to replace in the field?
The "look where you want to go, not where you're going to die" idea... well, I've learned that one the hard way in whitewater kayaking and in mountain biking. There was about a week there in learning to mountain bike where I couldn't figure out how, if I could identify the places I couldn't make it through, I managed to keep going there. Eventually figured it out. Then paddling came along and I realized it was a universal truth.
upgrade your lighting--if you can't see the bad stuff at night, you're a LOT more likely to hit it. tow strap, 20'....traction mats to back you out of soft sand...an army style folding shovel...tool kit w/spare alt belt, jumper cables, etc
don't obsess about wrecking out there. Simplest thing is not to wreck. best way not to wreck? Don't look at what you're trying to miss...LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. You wont need any of this stuff if you don't stuff it to begin with![/QUOTE]
RB5,
Sorry I missed this one somehow. I'd like to thank you for providing a good answer with some points no one else had brought up.
I can't believe I didn't think of armoring the gas tanks! While I could drag the car back to a main road on a lame foot, I certainly couldn't do it on an empty stomach! Do you know if anyone sells off-the-shelf tank protection?
The upgraded lighting is being worked out now. Looks like 2 Hella Rallye 1000 FFs level with the stock headlights and two Hella 500 fogs as low as I can get them.
While I carry a "get out of the hole you just dug for yourself" bag in winter, I hadn't thought to carry one in the summer too. Sounds like some rope (real rope, I'm a climber, none of this Home Depot nylon crap), a come-along, and a better tool selection than I carry now would be a good idea for it.
Why the spare alt belt? Do they really fail that often? Are they that easy to replace in the field?
The "look where you want to go, not where you're going to die" idea... well, I've learned that one the hard way in whitewater kayaking and in mountain biking. There was about a week there in learning to mountain bike where I couldn't figure out how, if I could identify the places I couldn't make it through, I managed to keep going there. Eventually figured it out. Then paddling came along and I realized it was a universal truth.
| JWX | 03-05-2007 10:52 AM |
[QUOTE=urabus555;16748711]I really don't care what name we can ALL agree on. But the "tacos" bend. One 400km Notes Familiarization Pass (6okm/h max speed) on rough rally roads and my passenger side "taco" is toast. This is not uncommon for anyone who OFTEN drives on rough roads. Within the first three months of owning each of my three Subarus, I have needed to replace the "taco". I OFTEN drive (and compete) on rough roads. Perhaps this is why some people do not have to deal with this - common to me - fialure. I always replace the "taco" with a "burrito". With 300,000+ km's... 3+ years (OFTEN on rough roads) I have only replaced one "burrito"... a rear "burrito"!
If people can not get over this fact, I will have to get off my lazy a*s, learn how to post pictures, and show you the one on my car (and perhaps the other one I still have sitting on a shelf) before my replacement arrives.
I hardly ever post, but I would love to see this forum progress!
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.[/QUOTE]
you're gonna have to get off your "lazy a*s" and learn how to post pics because I ,aswell, have NEVER heard of one breaking, and would love to see the carnage.
If people can not get over this fact, I will have to get off my lazy a*s, learn how to post pictures, and show you the one on my car (and perhaps the other one I still have sitting on a shelf) before my replacement arrives.
I hardly ever post, but I would love to see this forum progress!
Thanks for reading! Anybody with constructive feedback - related to the topic of this post - please chime in! I'm sure I'm not the only other person interested.[/QUOTE]
you're gonna have to get off your "lazy a*s" and learn how to post pics because I ,aswell, have NEVER heard of one breaking, and would love to see the carnage.
| urabus555 | 03-05-2007 01:20 PM |
[QUOTE=JWX;17260299]I ,aswell, have NEVER heard of one breaking, and would love to see the carnage.[/QUOTE]
I just want to clarify that I have never heard of one breaking, just bending.
[IMG]http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twistka3.jpg[/IMG]
:D Can you say TOE IN:D
I just want to clarify that I have never heard of one breaking, just bending.
[IMG]http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twistka3.jpg[/IMG]
:D Can you say TOE IN:D
| RB5 Clone | 03-05-2007 03:17 PM |
[QUOTE=williaty;17258479]RB5,
Sorry I missed this one somehow. I'd like to thank you for providing a good answer with some points no one else had brought up.
I can't believe I didn't think of armoring the gas tanks! While I could drag the car back to a main road on a lame foot, I certainly couldn't do it on an empty stomach! Do you know if anyone sells off-the-shelf tank protection?
The upgraded lighting is being worked out now. Looks like 2 Hella Rallye 1000 FFs level with the stock headlights and two Hella 500 fogs as low as I can get them.
While I carry a "get out of the hole you just dug for yourself" bag in winter, I hadn't thought to carry one in the summer too. Sounds like some rope (real rope, I'm a climber, none of this Home Depot nylon crap), a come-along, and a better tool selection than I carry now would be a good idea for it.
Why the spare alt belt? Do they really fail that often? Are they that easy to replace in the field?
The "look where you want to go, not where you're going to die" idea... well, I've learned that one the hard way in whitewater kayaking and in mountain biking. There was about a week there in learning to mountain bike where I couldn't figure out how, if I could identify the places I couldn't make it through, I managed to keep going there. Eventually figured it out. Then paddling came along and I realized it was a universal truth.[/QUOTE]
Don't know any sources for ready-made armor for stock gas tank. easy to make your own, tho...buy a sheet of 1/8" alum, make a template from cardboard to cover the tank area, then attack plate with a sabre-saw (wear ear protection, this is a LOUD process). bolt leading edge of plates thru floor of car w/10mm bolts and nylock nuts (these should go thru floor just at rear edge of back seat floorplan); use mild steel L-brackets at the rear of plates, these can just bolt to holes you drill in the rear subframe. tank plate will help a LOT
your lighting plan sounds good, that's exactly what we run on our team's TSD/recce WRX.
alt belt is just one of those "belt-n-suspender" things, I've yet to have one fail, but will be ready when it does! as for ease of changing, it's easy with simple tools in your onboard kit: 10-12-13-15-14-17-19 mm combo wrenches, souple screwdrivers, a 14" prybar, hammer, duct tape, roll of repair wire, spare fuses, circuit tester, etc etc
a come-along isn't really going to help much at getting you out of a pickle,'cause it doesn;t have enough scope to pull more than a few feet. that's why a 20' tow strap is the ticket, just call or wait for help to arrive (like the next car behind you in a TSD). one thing that might help is to use one of your old climbing ropes, tie it to a tree or whatever, then have your codriver pull sideways in the middle as you try to back car out of the ditch or whatever...this approach creates tremendous leverage and is an old 4-wheeler self-rescue trick.
and yes, "look where you want to GO" is one of the few universal truths out there...I originally learnt it the hard way, tree skiing in Utah.
Sorry I missed this one somehow. I'd like to thank you for providing a good answer with some points no one else had brought up.
I can't believe I didn't think of armoring the gas tanks! While I could drag the car back to a main road on a lame foot, I certainly couldn't do it on an empty stomach! Do you know if anyone sells off-the-shelf tank protection?
The upgraded lighting is being worked out now. Looks like 2 Hella Rallye 1000 FFs level with the stock headlights and two Hella 500 fogs as low as I can get them.
While I carry a "get out of the hole you just dug for yourself" bag in winter, I hadn't thought to carry one in the summer too. Sounds like some rope (real rope, I'm a climber, none of this Home Depot nylon crap), a come-along, and a better tool selection than I carry now would be a good idea for it.
Why the spare alt belt? Do they really fail that often? Are they that easy to replace in the field?
The "look where you want to go, not where you're going to die" idea... well, I've learned that one the hard way in whitewater kayaking and in mountain biking. There was about a week there in learning to mountain bike where I couldn't figure out how, if I could identify the places I couldn't make it through, I managed to keep going there. Eventually figured it out. Then paddling came along and I realized it was a universal truth.[/QUOTE]
Don't know any sources for ready-made armor for stock gas tank. easy to make your own, tho...buy a sheet of 1/8" alum, make a template from cardboard to cover the tank area, then attack plate with a sabre-saw (wear ear protection, this is a LOUD process). bolt leading edge of plates thru floor of car w/10mm bolts and nylock nuts (these should go thru floor just at rear edge of back seat floorplan); use mild steel L-brackets at the rear of plates, these can just bolt to holes you drill in the rear subframe. tank plate will help a LOT
your lighting plan sounds good, that's exactly what we run on our team's TSD/recce WRX.
alt belt is just one of those "belt-n-suspender" things, I've yet to have one fail, but will be ready when it does! as for ease of changing, it's easy with simple tools in your onboard kit: 10-12-13-15-14-17-19 mm combo wrenches, souple screwdrivers, a 14" prybar, hammer, duct tape, roll of repair wire, spare fuses, circuit tester, etc etc
a come-along isn't really going to help much at getting you out of a pickle,'cause it doesn;t have enough scope to pull more than a few feet. that's why a 20' tow strap is the ticket, just call or wait for help to arrive (like the next car behind you in a TSD). one thing that might help is to use one of your old climbing ropes, tie it to a tree or whatever, then have your codriver pull sideways in the middle as you try to back car out of the ditch or whatever...this approach creates tremendous leverage and is an old 4-wheeler self-rescue trick.
and yes, "look where you want to GO" is one of the few universal truths out there...I originally learnt it the hard way, tree skiing in Utah.
| JWX | 03-05-2007 10:00 PM |
[QUOTE=urabus555;17262390]I just want to clarify that I have never heard of one breaking, just bending.
[IMG]http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twistka3.jpg[/IMG]
:D Can you say TOE IN:D[/QUOTE]
Oh snAp....or bend really :lol: thats a good thing right? just bend it to adjust it.
williaty, I like the picture of the "taco" good work old chap I say, good work
[IMG]http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twistka3.jpg[/IMG]
:D Can you say TOE IN:D[/QUOTE]
Oh snAp....or bend really :lol: thats a good thing right? just bend it to adjust it.
williaty, I like the picture of the "taco" good work old chap I say, good work
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