| jcroy66 | 09-22-2003 07:28 AM |
Correct Street Prepared class for STi?
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OK, I'm having a little "situation" here. I am one of the autocross co-chairs for our local club. We had a 2-day event this weekend where someone protested an STi that was running in ESP. The protestor isn't competitive in class anyway, because his driving stinks.
But I'm trying to be fair and actually figure out which street prepared class the STi is supposed to be in. So if anyone can help, I'd definitely appreciate it. The protestor is a real pain in the hiney and kept bugging me about it.
I had thought it was in one of the FasTracks this year. However, I just searched every one, and the only references I could find for the STi were:
1. Stock class: AS
2. Excluded from STX.
The Evo 8 is indeed placed in ESP (June FasTrack), but I couldn't find a specific SP listing for the STi in the FasTracks.
So where does it go?
ESP?
The WRX is listed in ESP. Can the STi be considered to be a new model of WRX, and thus fall into the WRX's ESP classification? The STi is listed on the SOA webpage as the "WRX STI SEDAN". At least until the STi is specifically listed elsewhere? Or would the ESP classification have to read "WRX, NOC" in order for that to be true?
CSP?
CSP has a catch-all: "All sedans over 1.7L and under 3.0L not otherwise classified." Since the STi is a 2.5L sedan, I guess the real question here is: "Is the STi otherwise classified?"
Is this something I should write National and ask for a clarification on??
If it matters, the STi is actually stock (on the stock tires, no less). I suspect that the STi driver was merely trying to avoid competing against the Evo on race rubber that is in AS. So if we can't figure out a street prepared class for the STi, I could merely suggest to him that he move back to AS. But I don't want to have to ask someone to switch classes unless he's actually illegal for the class he signed up for.
Thanks for any and all help!!
Finally, congrats to all the drivers who competed out at Nationals! And extra congrats to those who trophied and/or won!! :banana:
But I'm trying to be fair and actually figure out which street prepared class the STi is supposed to be in. So if anyone can help, I'd definitely appreciate it. The protestor is a real pain in the hiney and kept bugging me about it.
I had thought it was in one of the FasTracks this year. However, I just searched every one, and the only references I could find for the STi were:
1. Stock class: AS
2. Excluded from STX.
The Evo 8 is indeed placed in ESP (June FasTrack), but I couldn't find a specific SP listing for the STi in the FasTracks.
So where does it go?
ESP?
The WRX is listed in ESP. Can the STi be considered to be a new model of WRX, and thus fall into the WRX's ESP classification? The STi is listed on the SOA webpage as the "WRX STI SEDAN". At least until the STi is specifically listed elsewhere? Or would the ESP classification have to read "WRX, NOC" in order for that to be true?
CSP?
CSP has a catch-all: "All sedans over 1.7L and under 3.0L not otherwise classified." Since the STi is a 2.5L sedan, I guess the real question here is: "Is the STi otherwise classified?"
Is this something I should write National and ask for a clarification on??
If it matters, the STi is actually stock (on the stock tires, no less). I suspect that the STi driver was merely trying to avoid competing against the Evo on race rubber that is in AS. So if we can't figure out a street prepared class for the STi, I could merely suggest to him that he move back to AS. But I don't want to have to ask someone to switch classes unless he's actually illegal for the class he signed up for.
Thanks for any and all help!!
Finally, congrats to all the drivers who competed out at Nationals! And extra congrats to those who trophied and/or won!! :banana:
| wistful | 09-22-2003 09:15 AM |
best part is that the STi BEAT the Evo on race tires. :D At least.. last weekend at ESM he did...
Don
Don
| KC | 09-22-2003 09:30 AM |
You really want to piss people off?
FSP: Subaru - 4WD Turbo (all NOC)
Because it hasn't been classed yet, according to the rules that's where it would go (and there's no mention anywhere in the FasTracks for the classing of the STi in SP). :D
However, ESP sounds about right since both the EVO and the STi are in the same class in Stock.
Also, local regions have the right to class cars as they seem fit. Only when competing nationally does one need to pay attention to the Solo-II rulebooks. :)
So if they want to argue about the "rules"... show him the FSP pages. (And be prepared for all the FSP guys to be pissed). :D
FSP: Subaru - 4WD Turbo (all NOC)
Because it hasn't been classed yet, according to the rules that's where it would go (and there's no mention anywhere in the FasTracks for the classing of the STi in SP). :D
However, ESP sounds about right since both the EVO and the STi are in the same class in Stock.
Also, local regions have the right to class cars as they seem fit. Only when competing nationally does one need to pay attention to the Solo-II rulebooks. :)
So if they want to argue about the "rules"... show him the FSP pages. (And be prepared for all the FSP guys to be pissed). :D
| ChrisW | 09-22-2003 10:41 AM |
The STI has been provisionally classed in ESP for next season.
I have been fortunete enough to be autocrossing one at the moment, and IMHO, the STI in ESP is going to clean up, so I think it will end up in BSP with the M3 eventually.
Compared to the WRX and DSM, and to some degree the EVO, the STI [i]has[/i] torque, and lots of it. :devil:
I told my objections to this tid-bit of knowlege to the STAC leizon, and his reply was,
[QUOTE]
Look at the top cars in ESP (Camaro/LT1 option 300+hp gobs of torque), on paper the STI is a good match[/QUOTE]
I think they have underestimated the car, but maybe not. I can tell you from my own experiance, that with the factory alignment, you can plant your foot through slaloms with ease and little tire squeal. I take the long sweepers in 3rd, WOT... The STI is plain point and shoot... It's amazing... I can put the car anywhere I need it to be to maximize your line through the course.
the owner is a novice autox pilot, but a total mutant behind the wheel :D. but even with double drivers, tire wear has been excellent, much better than I had as a single driver in the WRX.
In short, the STI is amazing:banana: I am very surprized that it ended up in ESP
I have been fortunete enough to be autocrossing one at the moment, and IMHO, the STI in ESP is going to clean up, so I think it will end up in BSP with the M3 eventually.
Compared to the WRX and DSM, and to some degree the EVO, the STI [i]has[/i] torque, and lots of it. :devil:
I told my objections to this tid-bit of knowlege to the STAC leizon, and his reply was,
[QUOTE]
Look at the top cars in ESP (Camaro/LT1 option 300+hp gobs of torque), on paper the STI is a good match[/QUOTE]
I think they have underestimated the car, but maybe not. I can tell you from my own experiance, that with the factory alignment, you can plant your foot through slaloms with ease and little tire squeal. I take the long sweepers in 3rd, WOT... The STI is plain point and shoot... It's amazing... I can put the car anywhere I need it to be to maximize your line through the course.
the owner is a novice autox pilot, but a total mutant behind the wheel :D. but even with double drivers, tire wear has been excellent, much better than I had as a single driver in the WRX.
In short, the STI is amazing:banana: I am very surprized that it ended up in ESP
| MNbiker | 09-22-2003 10:57 AM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]The STI has been provisionally classed in ESP for next season.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Chris,
Have you seen this actually published anywhere yet? If so, I sure missed it...
-Steve
[B]The STI has been provisionally classed in ESP for next season.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Chris,
Have you seen this actually published anywhere yet? If so, I sure missed it...
-Steve
| KC | 09-22-2003 11:25 AM |
Until it appears in a fastrack, like I said above... your local region can put it anywhere. :)
If you (your region) 'follows the rules' it's FSP. :D Which those regions FSP class will have a larger hissy-fit than if it were in ESP, use the 'we can class it anywhere' and THEN put it in ESP... where the ESP people will go 'it doesn't belong here' becuase there hasn't been a fastrack saying it must go there.
Chris... where did you see a 'provision' for ESP?
If you (your region) 'follows the rules' it's FSP. :D Which those regions FSP class will have a larger hissy-fit than if it were in ESP, use the 'we can class it anywhere' and THEN put it in ESP... where the ESP people will go 'it doesn't belong here' becuase there hasn't been a fastrack saying it must go there.
Chris... where did you see a 'provision' for ESP?
| BOY | 09-22-2003 11:48 AM |
Even if its in FSP "technically" 'ESP is a 'faster' class... isn't running in a higher class (bumping) allowed? Kind of like HS Imprezas running GS, which I have seen.
| TheWRX | 09-22-2003 11:55 AM |
No, you can't choose to run in a faster class. In the example you mention, it's not legal to run an HS car in GS. In some events, the whole class might get bumped if it's too small, but that's not your choice.
You can obviously move up in preparation level, like running a Stock prepared car in SP.
You can obviously move up in preparation level, like running a Stock prepared car in SP.
| PaulC | 09-22-2003 12:09 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Chris... where did you see a 'provision' for ESP? [/B][/QUOTE]
He didn't.. he tapped the shoulder of a local SEB member.
It won't be official until it appears somewhere official, of course.
[B]Chris... where did you see a 'provision' for ESP? [/B][/QUOTE]
He didn't.. he tapped the shoulder of a local SEB member.
It won't be official until it appears somewhere official, of course.
| KC | 09-22-2003 12:12 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PaulC [/i]
[B]It won't be official until it appears somewhere official, of course. [/B][/QUOTE] Of course. :)
(And even then, it's .... never mind.. they piss me off sometimes)
[B]It won't be official until it appears somewhere official, of course. [/B][/QUOTE] Of course. :)
(And even then, it's .... never mind.. they piss me off sometimes)
| trhoppe | 09-22-2003 12:23 PM |
IF the STi is in ESP, the problem with setting one up, is that for a year they can move it at any time. I think as soon as a couple of them dominate at a pro solo or 2, they will be moved to BSP immediately.
If the STi is not competitive in AS next year though, I might stuff my STX suspension on it though and go play in ESP until the car is moved out :devil:
-Tom
If the STi is not competitive in AS next year though, I might stuff my STX suspension on it though and go play in ESP until the car is moved out :devil:
-Tom
| jcroy66 | 09-22-2003 01:22 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]No, you can't choose to run in a faster class. In the example you mention, it's not legal to run an HS car in GS. [/B][/QUOTE]
Really? Interesting...
I had heard something similar - that you could choose to run in a class with a higher PAX index. I never bothered to see if it was in the rulebook, given that I had no desire to do that. (Although we do have people do that on occasion - if their normal car is unavailable, they might bring a car that is listed for a lower class, just so they can continue to accumulate season points.)
I guess I might have guessed it wouldn't be in the rulebook, given that PAX isn't an official SCCA National index, at least as I understand it.
[B]No, you can't choose to run in a faster class. In the example you mention, it's not legal to run an HS car in GS. [/B][/QUOTE]
Really? Interesting...
I had heard something similar - that you could choose to run in a class with a higher PAX index. I never bothered to see if it was in the rulebook, given that I had no desire to do that. (Although we do have people do that on occasion - if their normal car is unavailable, they might bring a car that is listed for a lower class, just so they can continue to accumulate season points.)
I guess I might have guessed it wouldn't be in the rulebook, given that PAX isn't an official SCCA National index, at least as I understand it.
| BOY | 09-22-2003 01:34 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by TheWRX [/i]
[B]No, you can't choose to run in a faster class. In the example you mention, it's not legal to run an HS car in GS. In some events, the whole class might get bumped if it's too small, but that's not your choice.
You can obviously move up in preparation level, like running a Stock prepared car in SP. [/B][/QUOTE]
Then the question needs to be asked... was there an FSP class other than the STi? Did the event officials consider the bump? Call me crazy but my understanding was that you could bump yourself as long as you followed the correct order.
[B]No, you can't choose to run in a faster class. In the example you mention, it's not legal to run an HS car in GS. In some events, the whole class might get bumped if it's too small, but that's not your choice.
You can obviously move up in preparation level, like running a Stock prepared car in SP. [/B][/QUOTE]
Then the question needs to be asked... was there an FSP class other than the STi? Did the event officials consider the bump? Call me crazy but my understanding was that you could bump yourself as long as you followed the correct order.
| KC | 09-22-2003 01:41 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jcroy66 [/i]
[B]
Really? Interesting...
I had heard something similar - that you could choose to run in a class with a higher PAX index. I never bothered to see if it was in the rulebook, given that I had no desire to do that. (Although we do have people do that on occasion - if their normal car is unavailable, they might bring a car that is listed for a lower class, just so they can continue to accumulate season points.)
I guess I might have guessed it wouldn't be in the rulebook, given that PAX isn't an official SCCA National index, at least as I understand it. [/B][/QUOTE]Right... PAX has no baring on classing cars since it is not an official index.
As you stated about running a car for points in a class... 'technically' you could drive a stock car in it's SP class. That's the bumping order... S->Sp->P->M Now the competitors or the region/event chair could have just said 'sure we'll let you run your escort in BS'. Again, classing is up to the region... and if you're in the run for points and your car goes down, I think it fair for that, and I'm sure that guys competitors, of whom he probably knows year in-year-out from running in that class wouldn't have an issue with it (unless it was something like a Z-06 in HS).
Only at a national level must the classing rules be followed. It's even in the rule book that the region can class cars differently.
[QUOTE]Then the question needs to be asked... was there an FSP class other than the STi? Did the event officials consider the bump? Call me crazy but my understanding was that you could bump yourself as long as you followed the correct order.[/QUOTE]
Can you re-phrase that? I'm not getting what you're saying.
[B]
Really? Interesting...
I had heard something similar - that you could choose to run in a class with a higher PAX index. I never bothered to see if it was in the rulebook, given that I had no desire to do that. (Although we do have people do that on occasion - if their normal car is unavailable, they might bring a car that is listed for a lower class, just so they can continue to accumulate season points.)
I guess I might have guessed it wouldn't be in the rulebook, given that PAX isn't an official SCCA National index, at least as I understand it. [/B][/QUOTE]Right... PAX has no baring on classing cars since it is not an official index.
As you stated about running a car for points in a class... 'technically' you could drive a stock car in it's SP class. That's the bumping order... S->Sp->P->M Now the competitors or the region/event chair could have just said 'sure we'll let you run your escort in BS'. Again, classing is up to the region... and if you're in the run for points and your car goes down, I think it fair for that, and I'm sure that guys competitors, of whom he probably knows year in-year-out from running in that class wouldn't have an issue with it (unless it was something like a Z-06 in HS).
Only at a national level must the classing rules be followed. It's even in the rule book that the region can class cars differently.
[QUOTE]Then the question needs to be asked... was there an FSP class other than the STi? Did the event officials consider the bump? Call me crazy but my understanding was that you could bump yourself as long as you followed the correct order.[/QUOTE]
Can you re-phrase that? I'm not getting what you're saying.
| BOY | 09-22-2003 03:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]
Can you re-phrase that? I'm not getting what you're saying. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry KC, what I was getting at was if there would've been no FSP class then the STi in ESP made sense rather than run by itself in a "NOC" class. My biggest contention, though, is I always was lead to believe that the [u]competitor[/u] could impliment the bump, not realizing that the [u]region[/u] and region alone. I do realize that bumping is not allowed at nat/div level. As for bumping order, maybe I've just read the bood wrong for years but as I understand it bumping goes as follows:
HS=>ES=>DS=>CS=>BS=>AS=>SS=>prepared
__STS||__________GS||_FS||
[B]
Can you re-phrase that? I'm not getting what you're saying. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry KC, what I was getting at was if there would've been no FSP class then the STi in ESP made sense rather than run by itself in a "NOC" class. My biggest contention, though, is I always was lead to believe that the [u]competitor[/u] could impliment the bump, not realizing that the [u]region[/u] and region alone. I do realize that bumping is not allowed at nat/div level. As for bumping order, maybe I've just read the bood wrong for years but as I understand it bumping goes as follows:
HS=>ES=>DS=>CS=>BS=>AS=>SS=>prepared
__STS||__________GS||_FS||
| KC | 09-22-2003 03:30 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Now the competitors or the region/event chair could have just said 'sure we'll let you run your escort in BS'. Again, classing is up to the region... and if you're in the run for points and your car goes down, I think it fair for that, and I'm sure that guys competitors, of whom he probably knows year in-year-out from running in that class wouldn't have an issue with it (unless it was something like a Z-06 in HS).[/B][/QUOTE] ;)
[B]Now the competitors or the region/event chair could have just said 'sure we'll let you run your escort in BS'. Again, classing is up to the region... and if you're in the run for points and your car goes down, I think it fair for that, and I'm sure that guys competitors, of whom he probably knows year in-year-out from running in that class wouldn't have an issue with it (unless it was something like a Z-06 in HS).[/B][/QUOTE] ;)
| BOY | 09-22-2003 03:37 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B] ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
noted... again, due to the profundity of the SCCA, yet another competitor had it "wrong" all this time :lol: .
[B] ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
noted... again, due to the profundity of the SCCA, yet another competitor had it "wrong" all this time :lol: .
| Dussander | 09-22-2003 03:40 PM |
[QUOTE]HS=>ES=>DS=>CS=>BS=>AS=>SS=>prepared[/QUOTE]
Go look at the PAX indexes to see why above would be wrong even if bumping through stock class was allowed.
Go look at the PAX indexes to see why above would be wrong even if bumping through stock class was allowed.
| ChrisW | 09-22-2003 03:50 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trhoppe [/i]
[B]IF the STi is in ESP, the problem with setting one up, is that for a year they can move it at any time. I think as soon as a couple of them dominate at a pro solo or 2, they will be moved to BSP immediately.
If the STi is not competitive in AS next year though, I might stuff my STX suspension on it though and go play in ESP until the car is moved out :devil:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
See, you won't need all that much to be competitive in ESP. After driving it, I would put [i]at most[/i] camber caster plates, swaybars, piggyback ecu, and a catback exhaust... With those parts on a STI, you could dominate ESP. The stock suspension (the struts at least) are good enough, the setup just needs more caster to rid yourself of the still present understeer.
Like PaulC mentioned, I just tapped the shoulder of the SEB lieson, the official announcement will be in an upcoming fasttrack.
[B]IF the STi is in ESP, the problem with setting one up, is that for a year they can move it at any time. I think as soon as a couple of them dominate at a pro solo or 2, they will be moved to BSP immediately.
If the STi is not competitive in AS next year though, I might stuff my STX suspension on it though and go play in ESP until the car is moved out :devil:
-Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
See, you won't need all that much to be competitive in ESP. After driving it, I would put [i]at most[/i] camber caster plates, swaybars, piggyback ecu, and a catback exhaust... With those parts on a STI, you could dominate ESP. The stock suspension (the struts at least) are good enough, the setup just needs more caster to rid yourself of the still present understeer.
Like PaulC mentioned, I just tapped the shoulder of the SEB lieson, the official announcement will be in an upcoming fasttrack.
| MNbiker | 09-22-2003 03:59 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ChrisW [/i]
[B]See, you won't need all that much to be competitive in ESP. After driving it, I would put [i]at most[/i] camber caster plates, swaybars, piggyback ecu, and a catback exhaust... With those parts on a STI, you could dominate ESP. The stock suspension (the struts at least) are good enough, the setup just needs more caster to rid yourself of the still present understeer.
Like PaulC mentioned, I just tapped the shoulder of the SEB lieson, the official announcement will be in an upcoming fasttrack. [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't forget the most important mod....big-a$$ sticky tires!:devil:
[B]See, you won't need all that much to be competitive in ESP. After driving it, I would put [i]at most[/i] camber caster plates, swaybars, piggyback ecu, and a catback exhaust... With those parts on a STI, you could dominate ESP. The stock suspension (the struts at least) are good enough, the setup just needs more caster to rid yourself of the still present understeer.
Like PaulC mentioned, I just tapped the shoulder of the SEB lieson, the official announcement will be in an upcoming fasttrack. [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't forget the most important mod....big-a$$ sticky tires!:devil:
| trhoppe | 09-22-2003 04:23 PM |
[QUOTE]The stock suspension (the struts at least) are good enough[/QUOTE] Funny, after flogging around the STi that I hope to be driving next year, this past weekend, I thought the EXACT opposite. The spring rate seems to have increased from the WRX and it feels like the shocks are not keeping up.
I agree on the swaybars though. That sucker needs a BIG front bar :)
-Tom
I agree on the swaybars though. That sucker needs a BIG front bar :)
-Tom
| 10th Warrior | 09-22-2003 04:42 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MNbiker [/i]
[B]
Don't forget the most important mod....big-a$$ sticky tires!:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
don't you run STX :lol:
i never thought of that FSP loophole KC. that's good. i like that :D now, if only i had a $40,000 and a time machine, i could have had some fun at nationals :)
[B]
Don't forget the most important mod....big-a$$ sticky tires!:devil: [/B][/QUOTE]
don't you run STX :lol:
i never thought of that FSP loophole KC. that's good. i like that :D now, if only i had a $40,000 and a time machine, i could have had some fun at nationals :)
| KC | 09-22-2003 05:08 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by 10th Warrior [/i]
[B]
don't you run STX :lol:
i never thought of that FSP loophole KC. that's good. i like that :D now, if only i had a $40,000 and a time machine, i could have had some fun at nationals :) [/B][/QUOTE]With the exception of one thing... I do believe that NOC cars are not eligible for trophies. I think it has something to do wiht what Subaru did.. if a ringer comes out just before nats, like the STi and just cleans house in the class... when everyone KNOWS it shouldn't be in that class.
I used the FSP rule as an example... if your region want's to play 'by the book' then that inclusion for FSP is 'a rule'. ;)
[B]
don't you run STX :lol:
i never thought of that FSP loophole KC. that's good. i like that :D now, if only i had a $40,000 and a time machine, i could have had some fun at nationals :) [/B][/QUOTE]With the exception of one thing... I do believe that NOC cars are not eligible for trophies. I think it has something to do wiht what Subaru did.. if a ringer comes out just before nats, like the STi and just cleans house in the class... when everyone KNOWS it shouldn't be in that class.
I used the FSP rule as an example... if your region want's to play 'by the book' then that inclusion for FSP is 'a rule'. ;)
| MNbiker | 09-22-2003 05:36 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]With the exception of one thing... I do believe that NOC cars are not eligible for trophies. I think it has something to do wiht what Subaru did.. if a ringer comes out just before nats, like the STi and just cleans house in the class... when everyone KNOWS it shouldn't be in that class.
I used the FSP rule as an example... if your region want's to play 'by the book' then that inclusion for FSP is 'a rule'. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, there are some pretty good FSP drivers in my area who would be pretty pissed if someone showed up in an STi with Kumhos/Hoosiers and ran in FSP! Sure would be fun to see their faces, though!:lol: :lol: :lol:
[B]With the exception of one thing... I do believe that NOC cars are not eligible for trophies. I think it has something to do wiht what Subaru did.. if a ringer comes out just before nats, like the STi and just cleans house in the class... when everyone KNOWS it shouldn't be in that class.
I used the FSP rule as an example... if your region want's to play 'by the book' then that inclusion for FSP is 'a rule'. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, there are some pretty good FSP drivers in my area who would be pretty pissed if someone showed up in an STi with Kumhos/Hoosiers and ran in FSP! Sure would be fun to see their faces, though!:lol: :lol: :lol:
| KC | 09-22-2003 05:45 PM |
Now imagine that in a 'Forester XT'. :D
| Patrick L | 09-22-2003 05:57 PM |
How about H Stock in a Forest XT. If they do not class it. It's goes to H Stock.
Hmm, I wonder how they would fare at a ProSolo. :D :p
Hmm, I wonder how they would fare at a ProSolo. :D :p
| Warp3 | 09-22-2003 06:11 PM |
I just realized something...You could theoretically run an STi in DSP! :eek:
Reasoning: The DSP listing reads "Impreza 2.5L" NOT "Impreza 2.5RS". Since the STi is an "Impreza 2.5L" then there is nothing stopping it from running there (since specific classifications like the above override NOC classifications).
Then you are pissing off BMW 3-series, Neon, Fiat X-1/9 and 2.5RS drivers... :lol:
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
Reasoning: The DSP listing reads "Impreza 2.5L" NOT "Impreza 2.5RS". Since the STi is an "Impreza 2.5L" then there is nothing stopping it from running there (since specific classifications like the above override NOC classifications).
Then you are pissing off BMW 3-series, Neon, Fiat X-1/9 and 2.5RS drivers... :lol:
Shane -- [url]http://www.warpthree.com[/url]
DSP 729 -- CCar Region
| KC | 09-22-2003 06:17 PM |
Knowing the way the SCCA works the 'Turbo' would override becasue when you see a displacement, it usually stands for N/A.
Example: Mitsubishi Eclipse. Take a look at the classing of that car in SP.
--kC
Example: Mitsubishi Eclipse. Take a look at the classing of that car in SP.
--kC
| dwx | 09-22-2003 06:21 PM |
An EVO with a good driver was 2nd at nationals this year in ESP. While I think stock for stock the EVO handles better than the STI, the STI has a big torque advantage down low. And in ESP you can change the suspension so it's all moot anyways. I do think eventually they'll both move to BSP and likely get dominated by old Corvettes like the M3 does. (unless Bob Tunnell is driving one).
| KC | 09-22-2003 07:34 PM |
Ummmm... it rained on Day one. ;)
Notwithstanding tho, it did have an impressive dry performance on Friday. (Still 2nd fastest)
Notwithstanding tho, it did have an impressive dry performance on Friday. (Still 2nd fastest)
| ChrisW | 09-22-2003 11:26 PM |
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by KC [/i]
[B]Knowing the way the SCCA works the 'Turbo' would override becasue when you see a displacement, it usually stands for N/A.
Example: Mitsubishi Eclipse. Take a look at the classing of that car in SP.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Here is a better example KC. Take a look at the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4. It has the same drivetrain as a DSM (2L turbo AWD), with 4 wheel steering on some models. By the rules it's a DSP car making it a total sleeper for SP.
[B]Knowing the way the SCCA works the 'Turbo' would override becasue when you see a displacement, it usually stands for N/A.
Example: Mitsubishi Eclipse. Take a look at the classing of that car in SP.
--kC [/B][/QUOTE]
Here is a better example KC. Take a look at the Mitsubishi Galant VR-4. It has the same drivetrain as a DSM (2L turbo AWD), with 4 wheel steering on some models. By the rules it's a DSP car making it a total sleeper for SP.
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